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Detainee Operations Briefing

Presenters: Major General Geoffrey Miller, Deputy Commandig General, Detention Operations
May 04, 2004
Detainee Operations Briefing

(Note:  Due to bad audio from the source, this transcript will contain numerous inaudible sections.  This event was fed in progress.)

 

            Q     (In progress) -- pressure, frankly, to get detainees in a position to offer useful intelligence information, but which are still within the bounds of what you call standard accepted practices, and how that differs from what is clearly unacceptable, because it seems in some cases the lines between those two sets of actions became blurred in the Abu Ghraib case.  And I think there's a big public need to understand the distinction.

 

            And then, if I may just ask you a follow-up now --

 

            GEN. MILLER:  (Without microphone.)  Okay.  Hold that -- (inaudible).

 

            Q     Please.

 

            GEN. MILLER:  (Without microphone.)  (Inaudible) -- there are a number of standard interrogation tactics that are used -- (inaudible) -- how we train interrogators -- (inaudible) -- type of interrogation -- (inaudible) -- and the personality of the person who's being interrogated, they're used to be able to more rapidly -- (inaudible).

 

            We established a list of interrogation (authorities ?) and said here are the procedures that you may use and (phased ?) all those standard practices (out ?).  So anything that's not authorized in those (is, you can say, ?) unauthorized interrogation techniques.

 

            For example, the second thing I did when I came in the theater -- (inaudible) -- I understood where the command -- (inaudible) -- interrogation -- (inaudible) -- following all those practices.

 

            Now, ladies and gentlemen -- (inaudible) -- this is about the standards of discipline and following -- (inaudible) -- our soldiers, some of our civilian contractors -- (inaudible) -- are executing (the guidance ?) -- (inaudible).

 

            So does that answer your question?  (Inaudible) -- your follow- up.

 

            Q     Sure.  Thank you, sir.  My follow-up is, when I talked with Brigadier General Janis Karpinski of the Army Reserve on Saturday, she talked about -- she told me about your August and September visit from Guantanamo to Abu Ghraib, sir.  And I think the word she used was "Gitmo-ized," that you had come over, in a way, to Gitmo-ize or to make more like Guantanamo the confinement and also interrogation practices at Abu Ghraib.  But she was telling me this in the context that you reported that the MPs there were really, really pushed and pressured and, you know, pushed towards making, you know, the interrogation procedures very conducive to eliciting useful intelligence information, which was obviously only a short period before the abuses occurred.

 

            I think it -- (off mike) -- the nexus that I'd like to try to understand from your perspective, sir.  What was the purpose of your visit?  And, you know, do you feel that you were -- is it a fair characterization that you were contributing to this atmosphere of pressure towards getting them to work up this interrogation --

 

            GEN. MILLER:  I was requested to bring a team of about 30 specialists, who were specialists in detention and interrogation, over to this theater to do an assessment about how these two missions were going and how that they worked in parallel towards success.  And so we brought our interrogation specialist -- superintendent of our camp, Camp Delta at Guantanamo Bay, who in his -- he's a reservist; in his other life is a superintendent of the largest maximum security prison in the state of Indiana, and a national award-winner for penitentiary operations.  And so those are the kind of experts that we brought over to help.

 

            As you know, we had just started doing the transition from major combat operations.  And so these experts were to come over here and to help this transition see how we could do this better.  We also brought a number of those who were expert in the interrogation methodologies and how that we would go about doing that.  And so they worked with all the interrogator staff about how that you interrogate, and validated what the interrogation authorities were, and talked about methods and procedures, and how that interrogation teams work together to more successfully use those authorities to be able to garner intelligence as rapidly as possible.

 

            I'll be frank with you.  Every recommendation that we made was in the bounds of what was authorized by the theater and was within standard practices.  We're enormously proud of what we had done at Guantanamo, to be able to set that kind of environment where we were focused on gaining the maximum amount of intelligence.  But we detained the people in a humane manner, in accordance with the 3rd and 4th Geneva Conventions.

 

            So that's what we were bringing expertise into the theater about doing that.  And we made a number of recommendations, the vast majority of which were implemented following the visit.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Well, I wouldn't speculate on somebody else's assessment, to be frank with you.  But I can tell you that I am absolutely confident that every recommendation we made was not only appropriate, but would have -- did and would have made this operation both more effective and more efficient.  We're a standards-based organization, and that's what we talked about.  And we're a leadership organization, and we continue to focus on what allows both the detention and interrogation missions to work most effectively is the active involvement of leaders of every grade in how that you go about doing this.  Gosh, it's what our Army does; it's the chain of command. And so that's what we were trying to give recommendations on.  Many areas we found that were in very good shape.  Others needed to have a reassessment, so we highlighted those.

 

            Q     General, do you feel that your recommendations would have averted this abuse that has come out?  Or would the abuses have been ongoing at the time you were making your visit here last August, right?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  August and September.

 

            Q     Presumably this abuse was ongoing at that point.  Did you see evidence of it then?  And do you think your recommendations may have averted it, had they been in place then?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  We saw -- the team saw no evidence of abuse during our stay.  And it was about a 13-, 14-, 15-day stay.  And we visited all the detention facilities -- Abu Ghraib, Camp Bucca, Camp Cropper, and all of those kind of facilities.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  I'm sorry?

 

            Q     You mentioned there were some areas you highlighted for -- (off mike)?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  They were in the areas of detention and how that we could improve the detention operation.  And in the area of interrogations, what techniques that we would recommend that would assist the interrogators and the interrogation teams, called Tiger Teams, to be more effective and more efficient.  And we gave recommendations to the theater on interrogation and detention authorities that we found that had used -- been effective in our experience at JTF Guantanamo.

 

            But let me stress to you JTF Guantanamo and this theater are enormously different (inside ?).  In Guantanamo, we have no more than 800 detainees at a time.  As you all know, there are significantly more from there, and so the scope is significantly larger.  And there were different challenges that these leaders would face on transitioning and from the large number of detainees that they had.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Just a second.  Back here.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            STAFF:   Could you all just (turn on your ?) mike?  (Off mike.)

 

            Q     General, could you be specific?  In the list of authorized practices in interrogation, can you tell us what on that list authorizes the (inducement of fear ?)?  When is force permitted?  Is humiliation a part of interrogation?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Interrogator and detainee physical contact, under the authorities that we currently have, is prohibited -- prohibited.

 

            There are interrogation techniques that increase anxiety.  And pardon me for going through this, but it's so important that you understand this.  Every interrogation must have an interrogation plan that lays out the techniques that will be used to be able to garner the information that is laid out in that interrogation plan.  And so the interrogation team submits this up to their interrogation supervisor, who lays that out.  That's one of the safeguards and checks that we use to ensure that our interrogation teams are following our guidance.  And so they're authorized to use these type of techniques.  And so there are -- there is not the ability go out in this system, that allows other techniques to be used, unless that -- they come in here.

 

            Interrogation is a dynamic thing, and it ebbs and flows as that happens.  But it's important that we continue to make that happen.  I can tell you that with a hundred percent surety that that is happening in the theater currently.

 

            Q     Can you expand a little bit on that inducing anxiety?  What methods are -- (off mike)?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Well, it's an aggressive conversation.  It's an aggressive (thing ?), where they're seeking information.  Remember that the interrogator has already established a base of information on the detainee that he or she is interrogating.  And so they will use the facts that they have, sometimes in an aggressive manner, to be able to try to develop additional information.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  No, there are -- there is aggressive conversation, but we do not threaten.  That is not something we do.  There is no physical contact between the detainees authorized and the interrogator.

 

            Yes, sir?

 

            Q     (Off mike) -- stress and duress, sleep deprivation, hooding.  You know, you turn the lights off; you keep them on.  I don't know, maybe you deprive him of food for a certain period.

 

            You know, I'm probably going to get some of these wrong and some of them right, but these are the sort of things you hear.

 

            You try to make them uncomfortable.  It's not just an aggressive conversation, right?  There are techniques that you use to break people and to get them to talk.  Right?

 

            And I'm just wondering, can you -- in an atmosphere like that, in which some of these techniques are used -- I don't know, maybe in some way that contributed to what happened at Abu Ghraib.  And I'm just wondering, can you be a little bit more specific about stress and duress?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Sure.  Let me kind of go back, because it gets the framework for this.  We have authorized interrogation authorities, remember, that go into these interrogation plans that allow that to happen.  And so, these interrogation authorities lay this out.  For example, sleep deprivation and stress positions and all that could be used.  But they must be authorized.  I'll tell you, we do not use -- (off mike) -- currently.  We do not use --

 

            Q     Which one?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  We do not use stress positions.  We do not use sleep deprivation, unless that is approved at the general officer level.  There is -- you know, we follow the tenets of the Geneva   Convention.  And so the basics of the Geneva Convention -- shelter, medical care, food -- are never used as a manipulative tool.  The Geneva Convention basics are those, those guidelines, and we follow that.  And so are the interrogation cycles that go on, and they last from one to six hours, all depending upon the intensity of the interrogation.  Beyond that, that requires the approval of a higher- level authority not because we don't trust our people, but it's our responsibility to maintain the environment and the dynamic about how we go about developing intelligence and doing interrogations.  And so the detention and interrogation piece require lots of leader oversight, and that's what we're going about doing.

 

            Q     General, to follow up on two things you mentioned earlier.

 

            First of all, on that last point, you said that these -- sleep deprivation is not used in this theater, but then I think you said maybe without authorization from -- are you saying it's not used or it's not used without authorization?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  It's not used without authorization.  And so could we -- could they request to use sleep deprivation as a technique?  It could be done.  I'll tell you that it's held -- that decision is held at a very high level.  And in my experience and with over 22,000 interrogations, I did not use sleep deprivation.  My frame of reference in Guantanamo Bay.  I did not use sleep deprivation, and I personally feel that it is not as an effective a technique.

 

            Q     Because I think we've all probably talked to detainees here who say it was used in one form or another.

 

            And the other question.  Earlier you said that -- you described the first question about enabling better interrogations in almost just purely observational terms, telling the interrogators how the detainee was behaving.  Is that as far as it goes, or can guards be also told, as we've heard in this recent case, to kind of soften people up, to do more active things?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  What we were talking about is the recommendation that my team made when I was here, and that's the practice that is ongoing in this theater currently.  The military police do passive observation, which is intelligence collection, but are not involved in the interrogation function.

 

            Q     Can you explain why so frequently it appears detainees are made naked during their interrogation?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  That would be speculative on my part, and I don't have the information you're asking.  I can tell you that that is not one of the authorized techniques and we do not do that currently.

 

            Q     It's not an authorized technique.

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Absolutely correct.

 

            Q     If somebody uses, for instance, (strip ?) methods, it's unauthorized.

 

            GEN. MILLER:  It is unauthorized, that's correct.

 

            Q     What about the hood?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  We do not do hooding in this theater.  Currently we do not use hooding in this theater in any of our interrogation techniques or interrogation methodology.

 

            Q     But is that the accepted (norm ?)?  Was that a technique that you used in Guantanamo --

 

            GEN. MILLER:  No.

 

            Q     -- or was permitted to be used in Guantanamo?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  No.  We used -- are you asking me about Guantanamo? We have never used hooding in Guantanamo.  Just -- wait a minute, let me finish so you can have the whole piece of this.

 

            In tactical -- for example, if you are captured and you're moved to a detention facility in a division, for example, it is one of the approved techniques to put a hood over your head so that you do not see that.  We changed that -- even though it's a recognized and approved procedure for transportation in the tactical environment -- to now we do no hooding throughout this theater.  What do they do? They either put a pressure bandage around the detainee's eyes or they use goggles.  You've seen many of the -- as we drive around, the dust goggles, and they put a rag on the inside.  And so because we have transitioned into -- in an occupation role and as we're transitioning to the government, then we have a less -- we just made the decision not -- we did not want to use that technique.  I believe it sends a message we do not want to the civilian population.  Sends a message we do not want to send to the civilian population.

 

            Q    I'm sorry, what type method?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  If we would continue to use hooding, for example. We've used a less intrusive method that will accomplish the same mission.

 

            Q     General --

 

            GEN. MILLER:  I'm sorry, just one second.  You had your hand up.

 

            Q     (Off mike) -- from the Chicago Tribune.  I think a lot of the people in this room have spoken to detainees over the last several days who described a number of the procedures that you've said would be not authorized under the rules that are permitted.  How should we understand what would constitute -- it seems to be fairly wide-scale blurring or abuse of those authorized procedures.  Have you ever seen in your career a case where something like this has happened, where you've had more than -- where you've either had one rogue group, as we've seen documented in photographs, or something more broadly?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Yes, in my experience I've seen the interrogators, in a very small number of cases, who have taken authorities and used techniques that were not authorized.  And so we aggressively addressed that.  And it takes -- (brief audio break).  And so we aggressively address that.  And it takes the oversight and the adherence to the standards that we do.

 

            And so this is all -- I told you this is all about leadership. Leaders got to go in there every day and make sure that we're doing this right.

 

            I talked to all the interrogators in this theater, and I won't give you the whole thing, but what I told them was -- said we're here to be able to enable the -- our forces to win this fight that's ongoing.  Everything we do, will do -- and at the end of the day, you've got to make sure that what we've done will make America proud. And so every detention trooper -- those are MPs and interrogators -- have had this dialogue at the leadership level, and they're going down and talk to the rest of their people.

 

            We're going about -- this theater's been very aggressive in addressing the areas that were not done correctly.  So I got here about 30 days ago and have done this assessment.  I've seen an enormous positive work and positive change.  There's a commitment by thousands to do the right thing.

 

            As you know, unfortunately, a very small number did not do the right thing, and that's being addressed in investigations and the follow-on from there.

 

            We were all chagrined by the occurrences of the -- but we are addressing those.  They have been addressed, and we are addressing them every day.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  That's all right.

 

            Q     If you could, can you help us understand what it was that you saw last August and September that prompted you to recommend more active engagement by the Military Police?  Was there a lack of -- was intelligence not being produced effectively enough, for instance?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  That's correct.  The recommendation was that the military policemen be more aware of what was going on in the detention operation, and so if we were going to interrogate X, that they watch X and they do passive reporting that says, "This is what he was doing," and is he prepared for interrogation, and those kind of things.  And that they accompany the detainee to the interrogation booth, turn him over to the interrogators and then leave.  So you have what we call custody and control up to the interrogation booth; turn them over to the interrogators, and then wait, and then they take them back to the detention facility.  It's a security measure also because many of these were very dangerous people.

 

            Okay.  I'm sorry.  I think we've got about -- how much more time have we got?  Ten minutes.  And so we've got 10 minutes worth of questions.  I'll try to give everybody one.

 

            Yes, sir?

 

            Q     The Taguba report -- the report by General Taguba, sir, really talked about some important structural deficiencies that were identified and not just individual cases, widespread cases of abuse. In particular, he talked about the fragmentation of authority between the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade and the 800th MP.  And secondly, he talked -- he quite openly criticized the role that civilian contractors played in  -- (off mike).  Can you talk about those two issues specifically?  And -- (off mike) -- 30 days now -- (off mike).  What action -- (off mike)?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Okay, thank you.  Yeah, one of the issues in the recommendations that were made by the team that we had was that we integrate both the interrogation and detention functions into one. You have someone -- one person to be in charge.  That was implemented, I think really partially at the Abu Ghraib facility.  And so there was a better chain of command that was established.

 

            The civilian interrogators -- and once again, I'll give you my experience with civilian interrogators and then here in the theater, and it gives us a frame of reference between Guantanamo here.  We had a fair number of civilian interrogators who were at Guantanamo.  They were professional.  Many of them were retired military.  Others had experience that they brought in.  And so we had approximately 30 of them.  And they performed very, very well.  Only one of the 30 was not able to meet our standards, and we discharged him, and it was more of just not having capabilities.

 

            The civilian interrogators in this theater, we've reviewed them, and they appear to me to be doing work to standard.  And so we're giving a -- I gave an assessment to everybody.  And so every month, every Tiger Team gets an assessment.   Now this is 28 days old.  How are you doing your work?  Are you being effective?  Are there issues that we needed to work on?  That you know how to properly do techniques.  I'm an old paratrooper, and so I'm a simple guy.  You're either at readiness level one, two, three or four. Readiness level one and two, you may interrogate on your own, a team. Readiness level three, you may only interrogate under supervision. Readiness level four, you may not interrogate, and you're put in intensive training to be able to ensure that the team is functioning correctly and we're following all our own procedures.

 

            This is not for abuse; this is how -- this is about both the effectiveness and efficiency in how we go about doing this because our interrogators also, as you know, go about making a recommendation for the transfer of detainees or their release back to civilian society. Transfer for judicial action is one of the -- or release back into civilian society.  So we have a number of things that our interrogator teams do as a part of this integrated system that works.

 

            Q     (Off mike) -- but General Taguba actually specifically criticizes -- (off mike).  (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Yeah, that's a great question.  The answer was a recommendation we made in September, if you want to say partially implemented.  But the decision was to start establishing a much more streamlined chain of command that integrated interrogation and detention functions.

 

            We have reorganized the FOB -- forward operating base -- at Abu Ghraib.  And so we have a military and police brigade commander who's in charge of the detention mission.  We have the military intelligence brigade commander who's in charge of interrogation.  Since I am the overall authority, I am the integrator, and my staff goes about working this.  And so that's how we work that.

 

            And our facility at Bucca is a little different.  We do all interrogation at the Abu Ghraib facility, and so our facility at Camp Bucca, which is down by Umm Qasr if you can understand, down south of Basra, is really a detention facility.  And those detainees who are down there are in the final processes of making the decision on their release back to civilian society.

 

            So currently, we have about 3,800 -- about, approximately -- at Abu Ghraib, and about 2,300 or 2,400 at the Bucca facility.  We just transferred 250 yesterday, so my numbers may be slightly off.  But that's the kind of horizoning that we have.

 

            Q     That's the total population?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  The total population?

 

            Q     At these two prisons?  (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Let me add them up here.  About 6,100. Approximately 6,100.

 

            Q     So 1,400 -- (off mike).

 

            GEN. MILLER:  There are -- these are the theater facilities. There are division facilities that we have, and brigade facilities.

 

            Q     And you oversee those as well.

 

            GEN. MILLER:  That's correct.  All of the detainees, once they go through a screening process that makes decisions on should they be moved from the division facilities up to the theater facilities.  And the divisions have 14 days -- 14 days -- to exploit a detainee and either release them or move them up to the theater detention facilities.

 

            Okay?

 

            Q     Just --

 

            Q     General --

 

            GEN. MILLER:  You're -- and you're next.  You can even have two questions, because I know you haven't had any.

 

            Q     I just want to step back -- again, Larry Capelo (sp) with Cox newspapers.  The -- I mean, what we've heard here for a long time seems such -- at such a variance from some of the things you've said about what the practices are here:  like, hooding, stress positions for long periods of time, at least -- hands restrained behind backs for a long period, or sat on in difficult positions.  So -- but you haven't quite contradicted that.  And I'm wondering, are you saying   that these things aren't using -- used now, and -- I mean, did you get here and say -- you keep referring to leadership, and this is a matter of leadership and discipline.  Did you get here and -- with your knowledge about this place, and then arriving a month ago, basically see these things going on, thinking there's not -- there's not enough discipline here, and now you're instituting this?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  That's a great question.  There are -- there were a large number of very positive changes that had been in process for some period of time.  (Pause.)  And they were working.  Okay?  But they asked me to come here and take charge of this, okay?  And so, one of the great things about our military, when you're in charge, you're in charge, and then you get to make decisions about how -- that you see, how things could be made better.  So I have lots of energy.  I think I visited every facility that we have in this country.  And I've talked to virtually everyone who's involved in this operation, be you a military policeman or a military or a civilian contract interrogator.  You know, that's the business of the commander.  And so that's what we're about.  But I've only been on ground about -- about 30 days.

 

            Q     When did you end hooding as a practice?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  The --

 

            Q     When did you stop hooding as an authorized practice?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  About four days ago.  No, wait a minute.  That's hooding -- we had stopped hooding in the interrogation process.  And this was hooding across the theater, even at the tactical level.  For example, you know, when you were -- remember the example when you were captured.  Now that we use either pressure bandage -- you see all the troopers?  They have a bandage right here.  They take that bandage off and put it around their eyes, or they use a set of goggles that we have.

 

            Q     (Off mike) -- interrogation.

 

            GEN. MILLER:  No.

 

            Q     But if you're putting a guy in the back of a humvee --

 

            GEN. MILLER:  That's from point of capture all the way through to this process.

 

            Q     They can't -- (off mike).

 

            GEN. MILLER:  That's correct.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  I know that we have not done it for the last 30 days.  I know it was done before then, but I can't tell you a date. This has not been a practice that's been active for a period of time. And I'm sorry, I can't tell you when it -- about when it was.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  We'll get that here in a minute -- until that --

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Yeah.  Okay.

 

            Q     I just wanted to check -- everybody's been asking about the chain of command and you've emphasized the points of leadership.  From this point on, how do you monitor whether or not these standards are upheld and whether or not authorized practices are in fact being used? I mean this would require daily visits.  You mentioned something about your people going out and having to make visits every day to these facilities.

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Okay.  The -- and I'm not trying to make this simple, but it is.  We charge the leaders to follow the standards and   authorities that we have given them.  And so I, as the commander of the task force, have laid that out.  And so we have enormously capable leaders in this system, and they've all taken responsibility.

 

            Talk about -- take responsibility for winning.  Leaders take responsibility to execute the authorities and the missions that we have given them.  So those are officers, noncommissioned officers, and a troop of soldiers -- soldiers, sailors.  Soldiers and Marines are doing this right now as we go into this.  And so I've laid out the standards and talked to the leadership about how that it should happen.

 

            We're working every day to make sure it happens in that level. Could we have some mistakes made?  Absolutely.  If we do, we will make sure that we fix those right now.  And so leaders are looking, coaching, teaching, and assuring that we're doing that.  Had they been doing that before?  I'm sure they were.  But remember, everyone gets to lead in maybe a little different manner.

 

            And so I've been doing this for a long time, 32 years now in the Army.  They have spent -- your Army and your tax dollars have been invested at enormous rates to help me go about doing it.  This is my 13th command.  And so I've over a longer period of time been able to go about doing that.

 

            This is an organization that requires active leadership to ensure that we're -- (inaudible due to background noise) -- just like other organizations.  And so we're all here about doing that.  The officers and senior noncommissioned officers are about -- going about doing this.  They all have the very best of intentions, I'll tell you.  And so we are sharpening that focus.

 

            You probably figured out I'm pretty proud of these people. They're out working at great risk, been -- with enormous pride at what they have done.  They're all a little bit embarrassed because some of their -- some people who came before them didn't follow the standards. These are great Americans who are out doing the business of this nation.

 

            Yeah?

 

            Q      One other question.  Regarding the civilian contractors, are they held to the same standards?  And how do you monitor whether or not they are following the procedures that you've laid out?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Great question.  The civilian contract interrogators we're talking about are held to exactly the same standard.  They are a part of our tiger teams, and so they are being assessed at that same frequency.  And so --

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  -- just a second -- and so if they do not follow our standards, then we discharge them.  If there are acts that are beyond the level of discharge, then we will take the appropriate action to hold them accountable.

 

            Okay.

 

            Q     General, on that, just to follow up on -- (off mike) -- in the report, there's two people mentioned -- (off mike) -- called the -- (off mike) -- it's unclear that he worked for this particular company.  The report says he works for -- (off mike) -- in one place. In another place it says -- (off mike).

 

            We called the CEOs of those companies, and they said they cannot (release anything ?) about any of these reports.  So it raises the question as to whether -- (off mike).  Are they still working -- (off mike).

 

            GEN. MILLER:  One of them is currently working.  He is not actively involved in any interrogations.  So that investigation is -- assessment is still ongoing, and they will take the appropriate action from there.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  And Mr. Stepanovich (sp) is -- that's -- I may -- I'm learning all the names here, but that's the one who's currently -- he's doing administrative duties.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  I believe that is a correct statement.  I believe he is not working for us any longer.  But I'm going to have to go back and check.

 

            The question I ask is, to be frank -- this is going to seem really mundane to you.  Who are you?  You know, as I was walking through the interrogation facility -- well, I'm X.  I said, okay, what do you do?  He said -- leadership.  He said and this is what's happening.  And I said, has he been suspended from current -- he said, yes, he is.  And so they've -- I was just taking them through have we done all the appropriate things.  And they had done all the appropriate things.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  In my experience -- the ones that we had at Guantanamo were enormously effective and dedicated people.  And so we are developing a whole new generation of interrogators -- strategic interrogators, operational interrogators and tactical interrogators. And so I believe that they are part of the future force.  And they have lots of ability coming to this.

 

            There's -- they also bring sometimes a little different set of skills.  They may have come out of a civilian environment.  You know, one of the contracted interrogators at Guantanamo was an accountant. And so his mind worked differently.  And he was enormously effective. And so having a mixture of those kind of personalities and skill sets is very (important ?).

 

            Interrogation -- gosh, I said it once in another interview -- is a young man's or young person's game.  Well, the older interrogators just came and said, sir, what are you talking about?  So I got smarter and said, you must have a nimble mind.  Okay?  So it's not chronologic, it's cerebral.  Be flexible.  Understand -- you see human dynamic -- understand about going about doing that.  Be clever in how that you're going about doing it.  This is tough, tough business.

 

            I'm a student of -- I'm not a military intelligence officer by training, so I'm a student of human behavior and try to understand that.  And so it's all about how that interrogators can be able to develop a rapport with the person that he or she is interrogating.  It is a much more effective technique from that, and some is done more rapidly.  Some detainees are enormously dedicated and higher risk, and it's more difficult to go through them.  That's why you have all these different techniques that interrogators use to be able to go about doing that.  But the best interrogators, they develop a rapport and they are able to bring information out on a rapid -- they develop a rapport and then are able to bring information out on a rapid system.

 

            This -- my aide's back there saying, sir, you're going to be late, we have to go.  One last -- wait a minute --

 

            Q     Question --

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Hold on just one second.  Who's only had one question here?  Okay, I'm sorry.  You get the last one.

 

            Q     It's Kohat Sadin (ph) again.  I'll cheat and throw a couple in, if I may.

 

            One thing I want to ask you is when people hand in these -- what was it? -- the declarations of their interrogation, how do you confirm that they stick to what they're actually handing in to the authorities?  And what's the sort of future for Abu Ghraib?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Okay.  The system that we use for interrogations is they have -- remember, this is a Tiger Team.  A Tiger Team is made up of an interrogator, an analyst and a linguist.  And so they have this interrogation plan and they go about working that.  And so those are assessed by the interrogation team sheet, and they also are -- there's a viewing room in each interrogation booth.  That's where the analyst normally sits.  And so the interrogation team chiefs do drop in and look about how the interrogation's going.  That's how they do their assessments.

 

            We lay out the standards for what we do on interrogation, and I can only speak with great certainty about the last about 30 days. We're following those standards.  Interrogation teams are good people.   We've laid out the edges of the roads, what the authorities are, and they are moving rapidly toward that.

 

            Remember, I'm biased.  I'm proud of these people, for they have taken the responsibility for winning.  And we're doing this correctly.

 

            Q     How many people on a Tiger Team?

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Sometimes four.  Sometimes you'll have two interrogators and one analyst.  You always have the analyst.  Not to use a sports analogy, but maybe it would help us to understand.  An interrogation team is like a battery in baseball, pitcher and a catcher.  The pitchers are the interrogators.  The analyst is the catcher.  He helps or she helps set the environment, and allows that to use their -- the techniques, both.  There will be times in interrogation where they'll stop -- the analysts will stop the interrogation and bring the interrogators out and say this is not working; we've got five techniques authorized, let's try this one.  Or let's take a pause.  And so our analysts are a little more experienced, to be frank with you.  They're the gray heads of this organization.

 

            And so it is a system of assessments that go on.  And so -- and then they'll do an after-action review after every interrogation: What did we do great, what did we do good, what do we have to in fact change?  You can't get better if you don't do that kind of assessment, so that's what we're doing.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Just one second.  You asked about what's the future of Abu Ghraib.  Abu Ghraib will continue in its operation.  We will maintain that facility and the facility at Camp Bucca down by Umm Qasr.  We will reduce the number of detainees who are at the Abu Ghraib facility.  Our goal is to have between 1,500 and 2,000 as the top end.  Remember, we will do the interrogations at the Abu Ghraib facility.

 

            Now -- wait a minute, that was the last question.

 

            Q     There's only one after the last question.

 

            GEN. MILLER:  All right, this is the -- the aide is giving me these dagger looks because I've got to go jump on a helicopter.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  I'm sorry.  We have Camp Cropper, that's at the BIA, at the Baghdad International Airport.  We'll be transferring that capability soon and moving it.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  That's where the high-value --

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  There is an additional -- there are 14 additional.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  That's correct.  That's correct.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  And Camp Cropper.  That's correct.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Well, the fourth one is -- I'm sorry, I was confusing the question.  We have 14 different facilities.  There are brigade facilities, there are division facilities, there are three main theater-level facilities that we have talked about.  And then there are sometimes 14 or 15 tactical-level facilities where they bring detainees in there.  That's where the first assessments are done.  Then they're moved to the theater facilities within 14 days. Okay?

 

            And so, if you're asking me is there another covert facility in here, there is not.  There is not a theater covert facility that is in this theater.  There are tactical facilities that move around, and I thought that's what you were referring to.  And so pardon me for not understanding.

 

            Okay, I'm sorry, I have to go.  I think that many of you may be coming out to see Abu Ghraib tomorrow.  And what we'll show you is the detention facility.

 

            Q     Thank you so much, General.

 

            GEN. MILLER:  Oh, you're more than welcome.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. MILLER:  The current facility, which is called Camp Gancy (sp) -- whoops.  I broke one of these the last time.

 

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