DEPUTY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE KATHLEEN HICKS: Yes. Okay. So let's pick up maybe where we left off at the shipyard, and then I'll kind of loop back to the whole trip. So subsequent to when we talked earlier today, I had a meeting with the INDOPACOM leadership and the JTF Red Hill leadership about Red Hill. Got the latest update there- really pleased with the progress they're making on the accelerated defueling timeline.
They, you know, there's some more gates, if you will, from here to October when we expect to begin. But, you know, confident that we're in really strong communication with them on that progress. As usual, when meeting with them, really pleased with Vice Admiral Wade's leadership and his efforts here, which I think have been really welcomed by the community.
We, Secretary Austin and I, back in Washington, are routinely in contact with the leadership. But it was good to have that in-person touch.
In addition to the visit here, as I go back, we're going to have our usual meetings on Red Hill, which Brendan Owens, who joined me for this trip and was there for that conversation, who's our Assistant Secretary of Defense for Energy, Installations, and Environment. He holds bi-weekly touch points with INDOPACOM and the JTF meets routinely with EPA, et cetera. And then we also have a monthly steering group. So it was helpful to sort of bring all those pieces together in person.
So, going back, obviously, we already talked a little bit about the shipyard. But let me just reiterate again the scale of that investment and the project's importance to us. The largest industrial employer, we heard today, in the state of Hawaii with, about 6,300 or 6,600, excuse me, Department of Navy, military and civilian employees, largest employer of engineers in the state, has this incredible relationship with the university system, Honolulu Community College, you know, Department of Labor, just lots of good takeaways for our other public shipyards in terms of how to have strong relationships at the state level and again at the community level.
So all that training, all those apprentice programs, training programs -- I met actually several former apprentices who had graduated today, really just incredibly impressive program here so looking forward to what we can learn from that. And as I mentioned before, having Senator Hirono and Congressman Case along I think was really, really helpful.
The other pieces we talked about over the course of the day, I met with, as I do whenever I travel, I met with service members from, in this case, across INDOPACOM. Every service, we talked about quality of life issues that they face. We talked about the tools they need to get their jobs done. We talked about issues of retention across the force, and those are all inputs. Those listening sessions are all inputs that I take back to Washington to make sure that the Taking Care of People initiatives the Secretary has initiated are really having the effects we want them to have and where we have some gaps that we're going after some of those gaps.
And that's, as I said earlier, I think, you know, one of the Secretary's key priorities is Taking Care of People so it's important every time we come out to any installation to make sure we're touching base.
And then just to go over the last day one more time. We've really been focused throughout the trip, both yesterday and today, on the innovation that's happening out here. That includes experimentation. So yesterday we did look through the RDER programs making sure we're looking at how to get cutting-edge technologies to the warfighter faster, and then also looking throughout the last two days at a series of different exercises that are ongoing, some initiated in INDOPACOM, some initiated by folks back in the Pentagon. But really trying to connect globally across the force on how we command and control forces most effectively and a lot of those foundational technologies, they're meant really primarily and foremost for the challenges we face in the Pacific, because it's our most complex challenge set. But they're useful to the force around the world.
So let me stop there and turn it over to you for questions.
STAFF: We’ll start with Patrick.
PATRICK TUCKER, DEFENSE ONE: Me? Okay. Well, next week NATO summit and today, announcement on awarding -- not awarding, giving supply and cluster munitions to Ukraine. Coming out of the NATO summit, we are anticipating some sort of a big aid package. Can you talk a little bit on how the next few months, the counterattack, what that means for you in terms of the supply challenge to Ukraine and the support challenge to Ukraine right now? And where are your, to the extent there are any, biggest areas of concern?
DEPUTY SECRETARY HICKS: Sure. Well, the announcement today was really as part of the overall presidential drawdown, 42. Let me, so, just pause for a moment, think about that- 42 different drawdown packages that we've done since this fight initiated from Russia a little over a year ago. And that's just the drawdown. Of course, we've had the USAI effort too, and I can't tell you that number off the top of my head, but the point here is it's a massive amount of U.S. assistance. And the President's been very clear that we're going to continue to provide assistance.
We have, in fact, been working quite hard, particularly on the munitions industrial base in the United States but also elsewhere. We're not the only supplier of munitions. We work closely with European Allies and others throughout the world in the global effort to help Ukraine. So I am feeling very good about the investments we've put in there, which will pay off. And they're paying off now, but they ramp inevitably.
So that's sort of the context in which you're seeing these drawdown packages happen as we move toward, kind of through the counter-offensive and making sure they have what they need today right away, which is where drawdown most useful.
We, of course, also have our eyes over the horizon to what Ukrainians might need in order to sustain themselves for the long term. And that's where these USAI packages are going to be probably particularly useful to things that we think collect… working with them and with our Allies we think they can use in the longer term.
MR. TUCKER: Are you -- well so, yes, on that, do you feel like you're in a good place in terms of creating something that's actually going to sustain them, a supply mechanism that could last a few years because they're forecasting that this thing's not going to be over anytime soon? I think ten years maybe.
DEPUTY SECRETARY HICKS: Well, I'm not going to comment on the course of the conflict. That's, you know, the Russians could stop the conflict at any point. But if the question is, is the U.S. industrial base geared up or on the path to Europe to be supportive of Ukraine over the long term? The answer is yes. I'd just say again, we don't do that alone.
MR. TUCKER: Yes.
DEPUTY SECRETARY HICKS: And so there are a lot of contributors to that. But yes, I think we know the pain points. We've been working hard on those, whether they're here or overseas. And at the same time, that we're looking at Ukraine, we're of course looking at ourselves and we're looking at places like Taiwan where we have another presidential drawdown authority and capability and we're making sure we can provide capabilities needed to support their self-defense.
STAFF: Okay. Kevin, go ahead.
KEVIN KNODELL, HONOLULU STAR-ADVERTISER: Yes. On Red Hill, on the accelerated timeline. Earlier on, we talked about this distributed defueling plan, that there were some questions. And on background, I was kind of told that were still kind of working out where this would go, you know, mixture of afloat locations and other locations. Since we've accelerated the defueling timeline, how -- where are we at on the redistribution plan on getting that fuel to places that are safe and usable for forces in the region?
DEPUTY SECRETARY HICKS: Yes. So I'm giving you kind of a two-part answer. The first is when we looked originally at the way ahead for Red Hill making the decision to defuel, we did a very comprehensive look at how we thought about fuel in the Pacific and came to a place where we're very comfortable. And, in fact, think we're in a better position with regard to how we will distribute fuel or how we are distributing fuel now. I can't talk about that in any detail.
The fuel that is actually in Red Hill today, think of it in a more expendable sense. These two pieces are a little bit separated. So yes, we're going to defuel and we're going to do it rapidly. That fuel will be consumed, essentially. It itself does not constitute the fuel that gets redistributed. That was my point on the two pieces. So, I’m confident that we can consume that fuel appropriately in the near term as it is defueled. And at the same time, we are already moving, or have moved, to a more distributed fuel profile, because it's a consumable, in the region.
MR. KNODELL: Okay. At -- you know, as we move through this process, you know, and moving quickly and hopefully safely, you know, there's a lot of eyes on this because it also is tied up and, you know, we've got these land leases out here up for renewal pretty soon. Look, we're going to need to start making some pretty big decisions on that, on the footprint too. Is that something that you had conversations with about the future of these leases, what we're going to look at, and are we expecting to retain all of that land, or are we already thinking ahead to like thinking about our footprint here? Like what do we need versus what maybe can go back to civilian control in some of these locations? Air Force recently gave up some land. Obviously, we don't need to make any big commitments, but was this at all discussed during your visit here?
DEPUTY SECRETARY HICKS: We did not discuss the land leases during the visit here. I think we know that the overall relationship with Hawaii is so vital to us. So we're really focused on making that as strong as possible and building out trust wherever we can. And we know that level of trust is going to come into play when we get into the conversations around the land leases. But no, it was not a part of the conversations I had today.
MR. TUCKER: Okay, so one of the things that's come out of Ukraine that's applicable here to INDOPACOM and the challenges of the future INDOPACOM is the need to move supply and manufacture of arms and things closer to line of conflict with, you know, the development of armories in Poland, and Europe, and things like that. So you don't have to worry about resupply. And folks that I've talked to have said that this is also going to be an issue, obviously for anything that's an INDOPACOM, but there's not sort of industrial capacity here for things in the way that, yes, there could be that would really have a stronger deterrent effect. You talk about all of this really cool JADC2 multidomain effects, fusing of data, but in terms of moving industrial capacity into theater, what is the biggest challenge, and where do you think the Pentagon is on that?
DEPUTY SECRETARY HICKS: Yes. We absolutely... Contested logistics is already one of those core central problem areas that we have acknowledged in our joint warfighting concept and are working really hard to make sure we have solutions for it.
The fuel issue we just discussed is a great example of that. And so the solutions that we're able to come to aren't necessarily of the industrial age. You know, we -- there a lot of partners and allies in the region. There's commercial solutions, and then let me come directly to beyond the fuel piece, the industrial, if you will, the industrial supply piece as it is in any theater. But even more to your point, even more challenging here, we'll be looking in a combination of solutions.
So obviously, stockpile is part of that, or prepositioning, prepositioning ourselves, stockpiling. And then the ability to rapid manufacture, of course, is part of how we need to think about the region. And so that's absolutely one of those areas that we think about, and RDER is one of the vehicles that we're using among many to look at how we do that.
If you look at, for example, the Marines historically and today, another piece of this solution is needing less. And that's also true on the energy storage side. But that's the other piece of it. So are there lower-impact ways to deliver effects that don't challenge us so much on the industrial scale?
MR. KNODELL: But in terms of a concept of operation for contested logistics, there's also this question of, to your point, in the event of a major conflict in the South China Sea or in the Indo-Pacific theater, does a place like Hawaii, obviously, the Philippines and other places, do these become waypoints where you can anticipate? And there's now plans being put in place to move a lot of heavy arms possibly, you know, 155 rounds, HIMARS rounds, and create landing spots that don't exist now on this island or other places.
DEPUTY SECRETARY HICKS: Yes. I'll just say it this way. I mean, as you imagine, I'm not going to answer that in detail, but we work that problem very hard. We think a lot about how to operate over long distances in the Pacific in a contested environment and for a long period of time. If Ukraine has shown anything, it has shown that it's not necessarily a one-week problem set. It can be at this point, a 16-month or two-year problem set.
So yes, those are the kinds of things we are working through right now. And I think it's fair to say, again, just using fuel as a good example of the overall issue: distributed, more points, more approaches, more allies and partners, the better.
STAFF: I think we got time for one more, unfortunately.
MR. KNODELL: Okay. I guess just one more fuel question, you know.
DEPUTY SECRETARY HICKS: Sure.
MR. KNODELL: When we add in, you know, the -- I think most people would agree now that there were some problems with where it was stored. But I've also talked to a few folks out here who have their own questions about, you know, putting it in more places. Well, that also leads to opportunities for more spills in more places. What are we doing to make sure that it is secured? And also if we're asking friends, Allies in Pacific territories to take this fuel, what are we doing to guarantee to them that the same thing won't happen when we take it somewhere else?
DEPUTY SECRETARY HICKS: Yes. I think we have to take environmental stewardship seriously, and we do. And that's a priority for this administration. And it's going to continue to be a priority, obviously, for many of our Allies and partners as well. So there's both what we bring to that table and there's what Allies and partners bring to that table. We are in 2023. It's a significantly different timeframe than the period in which Red Hill was built. And so we obviously work under the standards that exist today, which do reinforce all of those environmental stewardship approaches. So I think that's my broad answer, which is we don't have anything like Red Hill in that plan that we have, or that we're using today.
MR. TUCKER: Ask one more super quick, Tuberville and nominee holdups.
[CROSSTALK]
MR. TUCKER: But yes. Any additional thoughts on the impact of the Tuberville holdup on nominees on the Indo-Pacific?
DEPUTY SECRETARY HICKS: Yes. So, you know, one really good example of the challenge we're facing is in the 3MEF, which is the 3rd Marine Expeditionary Force. This is our primary force to do the Naval Expeditionary movements in any fight that could happen in the Western Pacific. And what we're seeing there right now is we've had a delay in the transition of that commanding general from 3MEF. So really disrupting. This is the Marine Corps' largest expeditionary stand-in Force and it's here INDOPACOM and that's a real challenge. And that sort of layers, that's a one specific example. But it layers on to this overall problem where we have about maybe even up to 89 percent of our general flag officer positions that could be vacant over this period.
So no matter what one thinks about the number of general officers in the military, which I've heard come up before, I don't think anyone would argue we only need 11 percent of them at any given time. So it's a real challenge that we face right now.