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- Hagerty.

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Victorino Mercado,

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performing the duties of
Assistant Secretary of Defense.

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That has to be the longest
title I've ever seen.

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Vice Admiral Johnny Wolfe,

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Lieutenant General Richard Clark,

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and Allison Bawden of the GAO.

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This subcommittee hearing has to be on one

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of the most important, most complicated

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topics of any subcommittee hearing

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so I hope that all members will try

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to stick to the five minute rule

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so that we can have plenty of time

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in closed session following
the public hearing.

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I plan on referring my
time to the closed session.

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As I mentioned at last
week's subcommittee hearing,

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the main issues seem to be budgetary

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and we have that high class problem

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of unexpected largess
from the administration,

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nearly a $3 billion increase
for NNSA over FY '20.

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Although we appreciate
the nearly 20% increase,

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the burden of proof is
on the administrator

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to justify the amounts,

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particularly in view of the NNSA's

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$8 billion in uncosted funds.

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Now, let me recognize the Ranking Member

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for his opening statement.

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- Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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I would also like to extend a warm welcome

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to all of our witnesses today.

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We do have a very large panel

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but you all contribute to our work here

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on the House Armed Services Committee

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in unique and meaningful ways

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and I appreciate your expertise

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that you bring to the table.

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The budget request for the
entire nuclear enterprise

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across both the Department of Energy

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and the Department of Defense

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for Fiscal Year 2021 is
approximately $49 billion.

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This request includes
consistent, predicted cost growth

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for nuclear modernization
programs within the DOD,

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nuclear weapons stockpile
surveillance within the DOE,

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and the nuclear command and control

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systems across the government.

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As we have continued to
hear from DOD leadership,

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supporting our nuclear
modernization efforts remains

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the number one priority of
the Department of Defense.

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In partnership with the National

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Nuclear Security Administration,

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the United States will continue to provide

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a safe, secure, and
reliable nuclear deterrent.

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The DOD budget request
for Fiscal Year 2021

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invests approximately $17.7 billion

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to support modernization of all

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three legs of the nuclear triad.

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This year's budget request
for the ground-based

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strategic deterrent is $1.5 billion.

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That money will ensure
that the replacement

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for our only ground-based
intercontinental ballistic system,

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which has seen continuous
service for 60 years,

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will be able to enter its next
phase of use and development.

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There is no margin for
slipping this program.

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We must continue to support it

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while ensuring the best
value for our government.

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The budget request also supports

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the B-21 bomber at $2.18 billion

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and long-range standoff
weapon LRSO at $744 million.

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The LRSO is meant to replace
our aging air-launched

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cruise missile which entered
service 40 years ago.

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This year's budget request supports

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the Navy's strategic
deterrence requirements

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with the Columbia class submarine,

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the Trident D5 modernization,

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and the initiation of
the work for the Mark 7

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reentry vehicle which will
receive the W93 warhead.

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The National Nuclear
Security Administration

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also has a robust and
necessary $19.7 billion

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budget request for Fiscal Year 2021.

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That includes $15.6 billion

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in their Weapons Activities Programs

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to support the life extension

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and modifications to existing warheads,

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stockpile surveillance,

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and investment in strategic materials

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like plutonium and uranium enrichment.

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NNSA is an essential partner
in the nuclear enterprise

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and while we have started to improve

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on the decrepit infrastructure,

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we have a long way to go.

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Additionally, the W93 is a critical

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program of record to the NNSA.

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I look forward to today's testimony

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on the requirements and
path ahead for this warhead.

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Last week we heard from Admiral Richard,

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the commander of Strategic Command

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about the military requirements
for nuclear modernization

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and the consequences of delay or failure.

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I appreciate his candidness
when he said that we

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are approaching irreversible
points of no return

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with regard to our nuclear modernization.

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He testified that we
are approaching a point

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where if we do not support

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these nuclear modernization efforts,

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that we will be starting down a path

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of unilateral nuclear disarmament.

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While we debate whether or not

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we will support the budget request

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for nuclear modernization
of our existing stockpile,

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Russia and China continue to increase

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their nuclear arsenals
at an alarming rate.

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Russia continues to increase the number

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and type of nuclear delivery systems

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and specifically they will
continue to develop and field

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new, non-treaty accountable
systems that indicate

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a more aggressive deployment strategy.

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Russia remains in violation
of their obligations

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under the Open Skies Treaty

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and continues to exploit the loopholes

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in the New START treaty to their advantage

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after, of course, having
violated the INF treaty.

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China will field its own nuclear triad

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in the next decade with the development

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of a nuclear-capable strategic bomber,

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road mobile ICBMs, and
sub-launched ballistic missiles.

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China also continues to build and deploy

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new intermediate-range ballistic missiles,

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outpacing the United States.

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China has never been subject to the limits

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and transparency required
by an arms control treaty

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and it is unclear how

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to incentivize them to join such a regime.

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This year's budget request
for nuclear modernization

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is just enough and just in time.

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None of these programs have any margin.

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Any attempt to delay, defund,

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or otherwise deprioritize
our nuclear enterprise

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will leave us less safe in an era

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of near peer strategic competition.

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And I want to thank our administrator

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for both your integrity and commitment

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and also your advocacy during
this budgetary process.

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And to all the witnesses,

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I want to thank you again
for being here today

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and we look forward to their testimony.

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I yield back.

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- I thank the gentleman.

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Now, let's hear from the witnesses.

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Ms. Gordon-Hagerty.

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00:06:05,430 --> 00:06:07,680
- Chairman Cooper, Ranking Member Turner,

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and members of the subcommittee,

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thank you for the opportunity to present

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the President's Fiscal
Year FY '21 budget request

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for the Department of Energy's

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National Nuclear Security Administration.

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As always, it is a privilege
to testify before you today

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representing the
extraordinary men and women

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that make up the DOE and NNSA enterprise.

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We are grateful for your
demonstrated strong, bipartisan

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support for the NNSA's
national security missions

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and the people who execute them every day.

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Chairman Cooper, a written statement

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has been provided to the subcommittee

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and I respectfully request it
be submitted for the record.

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- [Cooper] Without objection, so ordered.

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- Thank you.

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2020 marks the 20th anniversary

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of the NNSA's establishment by Congress.

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Although, of course, our
heritage goes back much further

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to the Manhattan Project

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and to the Atomic Energy Commission.

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And, as has always been the case,

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the effectiveness and credibility

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of America's nuclear weapons capability

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reassures our friends and allies

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and serves as the ultimate deterrent

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against a nuclear attack by
those who wish to harm us.

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In this regard, NNSA is
unique in our responsibilities

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to support our nation's
nuclear security missions.

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The $19.8 billion FY '21
budget request for NNSA

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reflects President
Trump's strong commitment

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to ensuring America has a safe, secure,

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and effective nuclear deterrent
for many decades to come.

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This funding also affirms
the administration's

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continued work to reduce threats

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posed by nuclear proliferation
and nuclear terrorism

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as well as to provide militarily effective

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nuclear propulsion for
the United States Navy

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fleet of aircraft carriers and submarines.

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The Weapons Activities'
request of $15.6 billion

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will allow us to modernize the nation's

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nuclear weapons stockpile
and infrastructure

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and meet national security requirements

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after several decades of neglect.

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It will modernize the stockpile

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00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,379
with five weapons modernization programs,

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00:08:08,379 --> 00:08:11,369
execute stockpile sustainment activities,

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and conduct annual assessment activities

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on all weapon systems.

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00:08:15,950 --> 00:08:17,836
With this request, we will continue

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the dismantlement and disposition
of weapons and components

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00:08:21,590 --> 00:08:23,447
from weapons retired from the stockpile

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00:08:23,447 --> 00:08:26,700
and support production
modernization activities

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00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:30,345
for non-nuclear components
and strategic materials

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including a two-site
plutonium pit strategy.

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We will also continue

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to recapitalize NNSA's
aging infrastructure,

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00:08:39,350 --> 00:08:42,244
including the Y-12 Uranium
Processing Facility,

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00:08:42,244 --> 00:08:46,090
the NNSA U1a Complex Enhancements Project,

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00:08:46,090 --> 00:08:48,130
and the High Explosive Science

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00:08:48,130 --> 00:08:50,600
and Engineering Facility at Pantex.

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As many of you have witnessed firsthand,

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our entire enterprise continues to age

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with much of our infrastructure

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operating far beyond its design life.

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00:09:01,690 --> 00:09:02,560
With this increase,

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00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:03,840
we will finally be able

218
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,680
to modernize the
infrastructure which is old.

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00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:11,230
Our Defense Nuclear
Nonproliferation budget request

220
00:09:11,230 --> 00:09:14,850
of $2 billion marks
the third year in a row

221
00:09:14,850 --> 00:09:16,120
that the Trump administration

222
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,800
has sought increased funding for NNSA's

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00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,710
non-proliferation and
counterterrorism activities

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and fully funds all DNN
priority program requirements.

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This reflects the the
administration's strong commitment

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00:09:29,103 --> 00:09:31,410
to reducing global nuclear threats

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00:09:31,410 --> 00:09:33,660
and to arms control efforts that advance

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00:09:33,660 --> 00:09:36,689
U.S., allied, and partner security.

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00:09:36,689 --> 00:09:38,117
It will enable us to continue

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00:09:38,117 --> 00:09:40,860
to build domestic and
international capacity

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00:09:40,860 --> 00:09:43,610
to secure, and where possible, eliminate,

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nuclear and radioactive materials

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00:09:45,650 --> 00:09:47,293
and prevent nuclear smuggling.

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00:09:48,140 --> 00:09:51,330
Further, this request
allows us to maintain

235
00:09:51,330 --> 00:09:54,053
a robust nuclear
counterterrorism capability

236
00:09:54,053 --> 00:09:57,160
to respond to nuclear and
radiological incidents

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00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,843
including nuclear forensics
activities to attribute

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00:09:59,843 --> 00:10:03,370
the source of material
used in a terrorist attack.

239
00:10:03,370 --> 00:10:04,910
We will advance our capabilities

240
00:10:04,910 --> 00:10:07,900
for detecting and monitoring
foreign nuclear material

241
00:10:07,900 --> 00:10:09,763
and weapons production activities.

242
00:10:10,610 --> 00:10:12,930
Equally important is the Naval Reactors

243
00:10:12,930 --> 00:10:15,073
budget request of $1.7 billion.

244
00:10:15,930 --> 00:10:18,023
It enables us to provide for the continued

245
00:10:18,023 --> 00:10:20,770
safe, reliable and long-lived operation

246
00:10:20,770 --> 00:10:22,824
of the U.S. Navy's nuclear fleet

247
00:10:22,824 --> 00:10:27,824
which account for more than 40%
of the Navy's major vessels.

248
00:10:27,940 --> 00:10:31,100
Finally, our federal salaries
and expenses budget request

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00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:35,080
of $454 million will allow
us to recruit, train,

250
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,000
and retain a highly skilled workforce

251
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,253
of 1,858 federal employees.

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00:10:41,420 --> 00:10:43,750
Mr. Chairman, it is true that our timeline

253
00:10:43,750 --> 00:10:46,152
for modernizing the nuclear
stockpile and recapitalizing

254
00:10:46,152 --> 00:10:49,460
the necessary infrastructure
is aggressive.

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00:10:49,460 --> 00:10:52,250
In some cases we are asking
our sites and our partners

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00:10:52,250 --> 00:10:56,540
to do in 10 years what would
normally take 15 to 20 years.

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00:10:56,540 --> 00:10:58,390
But in the two years
since being confirmed,

258
00:10:58,390 --> 00:11:00,664
I have seen firsthand the nuclear

259
00:11:00,664 --> 00:11:02,840
security enterprise workforce

260
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,600
passion and dedication and
what we can accomplish.

261
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,720
Consequently, while the
schedule may be aggressive,

262
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,630
I believe it is achievable.

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00:11:11,630 --> 00:11:13,901
However, without doing so with

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00:11:13,901 --> 00:11:15,946
consistent and sustained funding,

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00:11:15,946 --> 00:11:17,350
and most importantly,

266
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:19,940
our continued relationship with Congress,

267
00:11:19,940 --> 00:11:21,093
we will not achieve it.

268
00:11:22,060 --> 00:11:23,040
At this time I would like

269
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,760
to personally thank Vice
Admiral Johnny Wolfe,

270
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,250
Lieutenant General Clark and ASD Mercado,

271
00:11:29,250 --> 00:11:30,780
and all of our DOD colleagues

272
00:11:30,780 --> 00:11:33,860
of their professionalism,
your collegiality,

273
00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:36,030
and for your service to our great nation.

274
00:11:36,030 --> 00:11:38,100
And I also look forward
to working with GAO

275
00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:40,443
on future matters of mutual interest.

276
00:11:40,443 --> 00:11:43,335
Thank you again for the strong
support of this subcommittee

277
00:11:43,335 --> 00:11:47,230
and for the opportunity to
testify before you today.

278
00:11:47,230 --> 00:11:49,420
I stand ready to answers
any questions you may have.

279
00:11:49,420 --> 00:11:50,253
Thank you.

280
00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:52,110
- [Cooper] Thank you very much.

281
00:11:52,110 --> 00:11:52,943
Mr. Mercado.

282
00:11:55,210 --> 00:11:57,540
- Chairman Cooper, Ranking Member Turner,

283
00:11:57,540 --> 00:11:59,100
and distinguished
members of the committee,

284
00:11:59,100 --> 00:12:01,800
thank you for the
opportunity to testify today.

285
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:02,633
With your permission,

286
00:12:02,633 --> 00:12:04,320
I also have a longer
statement for the record

287
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,370
and will just make a few opening remarks.

288
00:12:08,090 --> 00:12:09,160
- [Cooper] Without objection, so ordered.

289
00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,490
We'll accept your written
statement for the record.

290
00:12:11,490 --> 00:12:13,005
- Sir, today The United States faces

291
00:12:13,005 --> 00:12:16,522
an increasingly complex
global security environment,

292
00:12:16,522 --> 00:12:18,220
in which the central challenge

293
00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:19,586
to our prosperity and security

294
00:12:19,586 --> 00:12:21,810
is the reemergence of great power

295
00:12:21,810 --> 00:12:24,330
competition with China and Russia.

296
00:12:24,330 --> 00:12:26,340
This remains a central
theme of our National

297
00:12:26,340 --> 00:12:28,920
Defense Strategy which
we are implementing.

298
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,628
More over, regimes such
as North Korea and Iran

299
00:12:31,628 --> 00:12:35,050
have mature and very capable
ballistic missile programs

300
00:12:35,050 --> 00:12:36,810
with aspirations to be able

301
00:12:36,810 --> 00:12:39,263
to deliver nuclear weapons
with these missiles.

302
00:12:40,190 --> 00:12:43,910
The foundation for our success
in great power competition

303
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:45,872
with nuclear powers China and Russia

304
00:12:45,872 --> 00:12:48,520
and dealing effectively
with North Korea and Iran

305
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,529
is a safe, secure, survivable, flexible

306
00:12:51,529 --> 00:12:53,633
and effective nuclear deterrent

307
00:12:53,633 --> 00:12:56,600
embodied by our nuclear triad.

308
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,530
For this reason, nuclear deterrence

309
00:12:58,530 --> 00:13:01,683
is the Department's
highest priority mission.

310
00:13:02,540 --> 00:13:03,850
For this important mission,

311
00:13:03,850 --> 00:13:05,471
the U.S. seeks only what it needs

312
00:13:05,471 --> 00:13:07,821
to maintain a credible nuclear deterrent

313
00:13:07,821 --> 00:13:09,805
in contrast to Russia who maintains

314
00:13:09,805 --> 00:13:13,440
about 2,000 non-strategic nuclear weapons

315
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,010
and are pursuing and fielding

316
00:13:15,010 --> 00:13:17,287
other novel nuclear capabilities.

317
00:13:17,287 --> 00:13:21,631
We have no desire or intent
to engage in an arms race

318
00:13:21,631 --> 00:13:23,740
nor match weapon for weapon

319
00:13:23,740 --> 00:13:26,390
the capabilities being fielded by Russia.

320
00:13:26,390 --> 00:13:29,268
Again, our objective is a
credible nuclear deterrent

321
00:13:29,268 --> 00:13:31,960
supported by flexible capabilities

322
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,342
residing in the nuclear triad

323
00:13:33,342 --> 00:13:37,870
that are tailorable to
any potential adversary.

324
00:13:37,870 --> 00:13:41,010
After decades of referred
recapitalization,

325
00:13:41,010 --> 00:13:43,874
we must proceed with
modernizing U.S. nuclear forces

326
00:13:43,874 --> 00:13:46,380
and add additional flexibility

327
00:13:46,380 --> 00:13:48,640
consistent with our Nuclear Posture Review

328
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,411
such as the sea-launched cruise missile

329
00:13:50,411 --> 00:13:54,720
to ensure that are no gains to be made

330
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,720
through the use of any nuclear weapons,

331
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,393
strategic or otherwise.

332
00:13:59,380 --> 00:14:00,797
The Department of Defense

333
00:14:00,797 --> 00:14:02,292
and the National Nuclear
Security Administration

334
00:14:02,292 --> 00:14:04,510
are critical partners in maintaining

335
00:14:04,510 --> 00:14:06,822
and modernizing our nuclear triad

336
00:14:06,822 --> 00:14:09,486
to address the challenges
we collectively face

337
00:14:09,486 --> 00:14:11,210
and appreciate the support

338
00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:13,460
that we enjoy from this committee.

339
00:14:13,460 --> 00:14:15,450
Funding these critical
requirements ensures

340
00:14:15,450 --> 00:14:17,358
that modern replacements will be available

341
00:14:17,358 --> 00:14:19,640
before the nation's legacy systems

342
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,610
reach the end of their
extended service lives

343
00:14:21,610 --> 00:14:24,500
and we lose them altogether.

344
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:26,070
The FY '21 budget request

345
00:14:26,070 --> 00:14:29,020
for nuclear forces is $28.9 billion,

346
00:14:29,020 --> 00:14:33,231
or roughly 4.1% of the
total DOD budget request.

347
00:14:33,231 --> 00:14:36,480
Modernization or recapitalization
of our nuclear forces

348
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,560
is about 1.7% of the
total DOD budget request.

349
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,853
The nation's nuclear modernization
program is affordable.

350
00:14:44,820 --> 00:14:47,130
Lastly, nuclear attack is the only

351
00:14:47,130 --> 00:14:49,032
existential threat to the United States

352
00:14:49,032 --> 00:14:51,075
and our nuclear arsenal is the nation's

353
00:14:51,075 --> 00:14:55,710
only ultimate insurance
policy against such attack.

354
00:14:55,710 --> 00:14:57,350
Our nuclear triad underwrites

355
00:14:57,350 --> 00:15:00,410
every U.S. military
operation around the world

356
00:15:00,410 --> 00:15:02,250
and also provides extended deterrence

357
00:15:02,250 --> 00:15:04,562
guarantees to over 30 allies and partners

358
00:15:04,562 --> 00:15:06,390
precluding the need for them

359
00:15:06,390 --> 00:15:09,100
to pursue their own nuclear arsenals.

360
00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:12,220
This is the return on investment
of our nuclear forces.

361
00:15:12,220 --> 00:15:13,680
I thank this committee for its support

362
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,288
and I look forward to your questions.

363
00:15:16,288 --> 00:15:17,220
- [Cooper] Thank you very much.

364
00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:19,080
Vice Admiral Wolfe.

365
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,130
- Chairman Cooper, Ranking Member Turner,

366
00:15:21,130 --> 00:15:23,240
and distinguished members
of the subcommittee,

367
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:24,520
thank you for the opportunity

368
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,625
to testify on the Department of Defense's

369
00:15:26,625 --> 00:15:29,150
budget request for nuclear forces.

370
00:15:29,150 --> 00:15:30,870
I'm honored to be here today.

371
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:33,610
I'd like to thank this
subcommittee for its continued

372
00:15:33,610 --> 00:15:35,920
support of the Navy's deterrent mission.

373
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,120
I ask that you please accept

374
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,410
my written statement for the record.

375
00:15:39,410 --> 00:15:40,920
- [Cooper] Without objection, so ordered.

376
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,360
- The nation's nuclear triad

377
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,890
of intercontinental ballistic
missiles, heavy bombers,

378
00:15:44,890 --> 00:15:46,180
and submarines equipped

379
00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:47,980
with submarine-launched ballistic missiles

380
00:15:47,980 --> 00:15:51,310
is the bedrock of our
ability to deter aggression,

381
00:15:51,310 --> 00:15:52,796
assure our allies and partners,

382
00:15:52,796 --> 00:15:55,800
achieve U.S. objectives
should deterrence fail,

383
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,420
and hedge against an uncertain future.

384
00:15:58,420 --> 00:16:00,207
Nuclear modernization is the Department

385
00:16:00,207 --> 00:16:02,850
of Defense's number one priority.

386
00:16:02,850 --> 00:16:06,530
Nuclear modernization is the
Navy's number one priority.

387
00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:10,500
And nuclear modernization
must be fully funded.

388
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:12,330
The Navy's strategic systems programs

389
00:16:12,330 --> 00:16:15,129
or SSP Fiscal Year 2021 budget request

390
00:16:15,129 --> 00:16:17,752
reflects investment in our responsibility

391
00:16:17,752 --> 00:16:20,720
to maintain a safe and secure deterrent

392
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,040
that is effective, flexible, and adaptable

393
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:25,860
for the strategic environment.

394
00:16:25,860 --> 00:16:28,245
This investment is
imperative both to sustaining

395
00:16:28,245 --> 00:16:32,040
and to recapitalizing this
sea-based strategic deterrent.

396
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,289
Our budget request represents
the faith and trust

397
00:16:34,289 --> 00:16:36,317
that the Congress and this nation

398
00:16:36,317 --> 00:16:39,065
have placed in the Navy
to responsibly steward

399
00:16:39,065 --> 00:16:41,880
the strategic deterrent mission.

400
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,360
Our nuclear deterrent is
credible but it is aging.

401
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,242
Our modernization efforts are underway

402
00:16:47,242 --> 00:16:50,880
but we have much to
accomplish over this decade.

403
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,250
As I look to the future of our

404
00:16:52,250 --> 00:16:54,530
submarine-launched
ballistic missile force,

405
00:16:54,530 --> 00:16:56,960
I must urgently express a critical

406
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:58,720
juncture that we have reached.

407
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,554
National capabilities and technologies

408
00:17:00,554 --> 00:17:03,502
that underpin our needed
recapitalization efforts

409
00:17:03,502 --> 00:17:06,160
have eroded and atrophied.

410
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:07,360
We are feeling today

411
00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:09,620
the consequences of historical decisions

412
00:17:09,620 --> 00:17:12,030
and we have reached the inflection point.

413
00:17:12,030 --> 00:17:15,282
The SSP FY 2021 budget
request wholly funds

414
00:17:15,282 --> 00:17:17,870
the sustainment of today's deterrent

415
00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:20,719
but it also begins the
investment needed to build

416
00:17:20,719 --> 00:17:25,186
and re-energize capabilities,
technologies, workforce,

417
00:17:25,186 --> 00:17:29,720
and critical skills required
of any nuclear nation.

418
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,551
This very foundation is timeless,

419
00:17:31,551 --> 00:17:34,500
is agnostic to a future
warfighter solution,

420
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:36,180
and will be a collaborator effort

421
00:17:36,180 --> 00:17:37,880
with the United States Air Force.

422
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,660
Today, SSP continues to extend the life

423
00:17:40,660 --> 00:17:43,140
of the Trident D5 strategic weapons system

424
00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:46,430
and to demonstrate its
highly reliable performance.

425
00:17:46,430 --> 00:17:51,430
Just last month we reached
178 successful flight tests.

426
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,150
An exceptional record
for any weapons system.

427
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:55,900
Our current life extension is designed

428
00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:58,830
to meet today's form, fit, and function

429
00:17:58,830 --> 00:18:01,860
to match the Ohio class
submarine service life,

430
00:18:01,860 --> 00:18:03,890
and to serve as the initial weapons system

431
00:18:03,890 --> 00:18:05,950
on the Columbia class submarine.

432
00:18:05,950 --> 00:18:07,740
As the Navy carefully manages

433
00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:09,840
the transition of our SSBN force,

434
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,027
so, too, must we manage
the age out and attrition

435
00:18:13,027 --> 00:18:15,620
of our strategic weapons system.

436
00:18:15,620 --> 00:18:20,110
The SSP FY '21 budget
reflects important investments

437
00:18:20,110 --> 00:18:23,430
in our follow on Trident
II D5 life extension II

438
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:27,410
needed for strategic
deployment no later than 2039.

439
00:18:27,410 --> 00:18:29,864
This funding focuses
on technical maturation

440
00:18:29,864 --> 00:18:33,040
of complex and fundamental technologies

441
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,599
and opportunities to provide
flexibility and adaptability

442
00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:40,200
in a dynamic and evolving
threat environment.

443
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,141
As our triad's delivery
systems and platforms

444
00:18:42,141 --> 00:18:44,560
are exceeding their planned service lives,

445
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:45,910
our modernization efforts

446
00:18:45,910 --> 00:18:48,180
will produce just in time replacements.

447
00:18:48,180 --> 00:18:50,420
Deferred recapitalization
has left no margin

448
00:18:50,420 --> 00:18:53,623
for any anticipated
challenges in technical work

449
00:18:53,623 --> 00:18:56,970
that we have not executed
in over 30 years.

450
00:18:56,970 --> 00:18:59,323
Historical timelines from
our first life extension

451
00:18:59,323 --> 00:19:02,500
coupled with the increased
complexity and scope

452
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:04,415
of the D5 life extension II

453
00:19:04,415 --> 00:19:07,440
signal that we must begin now.

454
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,388
Now is the right time to ensure
that the sea-based deterrent

455
00:19:10,388 --> 00:19:13,410
continues to meet strategic requirements.

456
00:19:13,410 --> 00:19:14,632
From a warhead perspective,

457
00:19:14,632 --> 00:19:16,260
the Navy and our partners at

458
00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:18,920
the National Nuclear
Security Administration

459
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,270
have successfully completed

460
00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:23,110
the refurbishment of
the W76 warhead family

461
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:25,530
and have modified a
small number of warheads

462
00:19:25,530 --> 00:19:27,270
to fill the low-yield option

463
00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:30,080
to address and identify deterrence need.

464
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,740
As we continue to refurbish
today's aging warheads,

465
00:19:32,740 --> 00:19:34,110
we have revised the timeline

466
00:19:34,110 --> 00:19:37,610
for completion of the W88
alteration 370 program

467
00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:38,980
which is now scheduled to reach

468
00:19:38,980 --> 00:19:41,250
first production unit next year.

469
00:19:41,250 --> 00:19:43,566
The FY 2021 budget also reflects

470
00:19:43,566 --> 00:19:45,510
the Department of Defense's direction

471
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:48,920
to pursue a W93 Mark 7 warhead,

472
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,200
an aeroshell program of record.

473
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,740
The W93 Mark 7 will address
an evolving threat environment

474
00:19:54,740 --> 00:19:57,439
and ballistic missile warhead
modernization requirements,

475
00:19:57,439 --> 00:19:59,540
will improve operational effectiveness

476
00:19:59,540 --> 00:20:01,010
for U.S. Strategic Command,

477
00:20:01,010 --> 00:20:04,440
and will mitigate technical,
operational, programmatic,

478
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,150
and geopolitical risk in the
sea-based leg of the deterrent.

479
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:10,430
The Navy's funding
request supports solution

480
00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:13,350
agnostic re-entry body
components and materials

481
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:15,657
and is the first step toward rebuilding

482
00:20:15,657 --> 00:20:18,602
a national industrial
base to produce aeroshells

483
00:20:18,602 --> 00:20:20,145
and other critical components

484
00:20:20,145 --> 00:20:22,738
which the United States has not exercised

485
00:20:22,738 --> 00:20:25,510
since the early 1990s.

486
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:27,640
This investment is also
critically important

487
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,120
to our other U.S. programs

488
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:31,030
and to our United Kingdom partners

489
00:20:31,030 --> 00:20:34,394
as they too face significant
recapitalization demands

490
00:20:34,394 --> 00:20:38,290
and execute an independent
but parallel warhead effort.

491
00:20:38,290 --> 00:20:39,281
As the 14th director,

492
00:20:39,281 --> 00:20:41,670
it is my highest honor to represent

493
00:20:41,670 --> 00:20:42,992
the men and women of SSP,

494
00:20:42,992 --> 00:20:45,956
comprising approximately 1,700 sailors,

495
00:20:45,956 --> 00:20:50,715
1,000 Marines, 300 Coast
Guardsmen, 1,200 civilians,

496
00:20:50,715 --> 00:20:53,510
and thousands of contractor personnel.

497
00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:55,470
It is my personal goal to ensure that

498
00:20:55,470 --> 00:20:57,760
they are poised to execute the mission

499
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,940
with the same level of
success, passion, and rigor,

500
00:21:00,940 --> 00:21:02,820
both today and tomorrow,

501
00:21:02,820 --> 00:21:06,580
as they have since our
program's inception, since 1955.

502
00:21:06,580 --> 00:21:07,800
Thank you for the opportunity

503
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,320
to testify today on behalf
of the men and women

504
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,230
who truly make nuclear
deterrence their life's work.

505
00:21:13,230 --> 00:21:15,440
I look forward to your questions.

506
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,360
- [Cooper] Thank you, Admiral.

507
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:17,723
Now General Clark.

508
00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:22,360
- Chairman Cooper, Ranking Member Turner,

509
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,690
distinguished members of the subcommittee,

510
00:21:24,690 --> 00:21:26,510
thank you for this opportunity to discuss

511
00:21:26,510 --> 00:21:29,920
the Air Force contributions
to the nuclear triad.

512
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,079
And thank you for your support in ensuring

513
00:21:32,079 --> 00:21:33,710
the Department of the Air Force

514
00:21:33,710 --> 00:21:35,149
has the required resources

515
00:21:35,149 --> 00:21:38,300
to execute our nuclear deterrence mission.

516
00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:39,500
I prepared a written statement

517
00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:41,140
that conveys the current status

518
00:21:41,140 --> 00:21:43,530
of the Air Force portion
of the nuclear enterprise

519
00:21:43,530 --> 00:21:45,128
and I respectfully request that

520
00:21:45,128 --> 00:21:47,140
it be submitted for the record.

521
00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:48,550
- [Cooper] Without objection, so ordered.

522
00:21:48,550 --> 00:21:50,070
- Thank you, sir.

523
00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:51,610
In addition to my written statement,

524
00:21:51,610 --> 00:21:53,370
I would like to emphasize three points

525
00:21:53,370 --> 00:21:55,420
before the subcommittee today.

526
00:21:55,420 --> 00:21:57,457
First, we are grateful for the men

527
00:21:57,457 --> 00:21:59,677
and women of the U.S. Air Force

528
00:21:59,677 --> 00:22:02,377
who built and currently maintain

529
00:22:02,377 --> 00:22:04,507
the resilient nuclear triad

530
00:22:04,507 --> 00:22:06,550
and the nuclear command, control,

531
00:22:06,550 --> 00:22:09,580
and communications
systems we're using today.

532
00:22:09,580 --> 00:22:12,385
It's a testament to their
ingenuity and hard work

533
00:22:12,385 --> 00:22:14,360
that the systems built to deter

534
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,399
their generation's nuclear threat

535
00:22:16,399 --> 00:22:20,710
are still meeting America's
deterrent needs today.

536
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:22,390
But those systems are decades

537
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:24,600
past their intended service lives.

538
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,510
Minuteman III is 39 years
past its planned retirement.

539
00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:31,150
And the air-launched cruise missile

540
00:22:31,150 --> 00:22:34,400
is 26 years past its
original service life.

541
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,698
Decades of airmen have performed valiantly

542
00:22:36,698 --> 00:22:39,354
to sustain the capabilities
and credibility

543
00:22:39,354 --> 00:22:42,768
of these systems but we
no longer have the luxury

544
00:22:42,768 --> 00:22:44,989
of deferring these system's upgrades

545
00:22:44,989 --> 00:22:47,993
or replacements to future generations.

546
00:22:49,270 --> 00:22:52,270
Second, we need your continued support.

547
00:22:52,270 --> 00:22:53,760
There's very little margin between

548
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,500
the age out of our existing systems

549
00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:58,870
and the fielding of the
replacement capabilities.

550
00:22:58,870 --> 00:23:02,080
We need the support of Congress
to establish stable funding

551
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,570
for the National Nuclear Security Agency

552
00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:07,380
and all of our DOD nuclear systems

553
00:23:07,380 --> 00:23:09,170
both in sustaining current capabilities

554
00:23:09,170 --> 00:23:11,260
and developing future capabilities.

555
00:23:11,260 --> 00:23:13,540
Without stable funding we cannot

556
00:23:13,540 --> 00:23:15,430
deliver these systems on time

557
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:17,620
and run the risk of a deterrence gap

558
00:23:17,620 --> 00:23:20,033
that will put our
national security at risk.

559
00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:22,873
Third, and most importantly,

560
00:23:22,873 --> 00:23:26,399
these capabilities will
backstop the next generation

561
00:23:26,399 --> 00:23:29,860
of American security and diplomacy.

562
00:23:29,860 --> 00:23:34,640
Future airmen will see
GBSDs replace Minuteman IIIs

563
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,160
as the ready and responsive ICBM force

564
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,220
deterring tomorrow's threats.

565
00:23:39,220 --> 00:23:42,290
They'll see B-21s take up
the bomber mission from B-2s

566
00:23:42,290 --> 00:23:44,236
giving America the flexibility

567
00:23:44,236 --> 00:23:46,717
of a tailored deterrent response

568
00:23:46,717 --> 00:23:49,853
visible to adversary and ally alike.

569
00:23:51,217 --> 00:23:53,200
Men and women across this country

570
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,290
will live in a world where
future American ambassadors

571
00:23:56,290 --> 00:23:58,379
can conduct diplomacy with the confidence

572
00:23:58,379 --> 00:24:00,121
underwritten by stealthy,

573
00:24:00,121 --> 00:24:03,620
survivable Columbia class submarines.

574
00:24:03,620 --> 00:24:05,250
And together our airmen and sailors

575
00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:07,416
will connect with the
warriors of the Space Force

576
00:24:07,416 --> 00:24:10,151
to guarantee seamless command and control

577
00:24:10,151 --> 00:24:14,633
of nuclear forces all day,
every day without fail.

578
00:24:15,478 --> 00:24:19,550
These points may sound grandiose
but to me it's very real.

579
00:24:19,550 --> 00:24:21,834
My son Milo is heading
to college this fall

580
00:24:21,834 --> 00:24:24,650
and he desires an Air Force career.

581
00:24:24,650 --> 00:24:26,590
He may find himself as one of the airmen

582
00:24:26,590 --> 00:24:30,210
fielding, operating, or
sustaining these systems.

583
00:24:30,210 --> 00:24:32,507
My hope is that we set up his generation

584
00:24:32,507 --> 00:24:35,608
and the generation to follow
with a nuclear deterrent

585
00:24:35,608 --> 00:24:40,260
every bit as robust as the
one that was bestowed upon us.

586
00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:43,160
So, in summary please let me
reiterate my three points.

587
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,750
First, past generations have given us

588
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:47,809
a credible and effective nuclear deterrent

589
00:24:47,809 --> 00:24:49,960
but a day is coming in the future

590
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,490
where it will be impossible to sustain it.

591
00:24:52,490 --> 00:24:56,140
Next, we need your continued
support to stabilize funding

592
00:24:56,140 --> 00:24:57,838
so we can modernize and recapitalize

593
00:24:57,838 --> 00:25:01,260
these systems to maintain
their credibility.

594
00:25:01,260 --> 00:25:03,483
And finally, the investments we make today

595
00:25:03,483 --> 00:25:05,501
will ensure tomorrow's generation

596
00:25:05,501 --> 00:25:07,729
and the generations that follow

597
00:25:07,729 --> 00:25:09,750
have the capabilities they need

598
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:11,793
for the continued defense of our nation.

599
00:25:13,050 --> 00:25:13,883
Through all of this,

600
00:25:13,883 --> 00:25:16,090
the nuclear enterprise remains the number

601
00:25:16,090 --> 00:25:18,900
one responsibility of
the Department of Defense

602
00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:22,350
and my fellow airmen and I
are proud of the role we play

603
00:25:22,350 --> 00:25:26,170
in maintaining a credible and
capable nuclear deterrent.

604
00:25:26,170 --> 00:25:28,300
Again, I appreciate the opportunity

605
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:30,540
to share my thoughts
on strategic deterrence

606
00:25:30,540 --> 00:25:33,560
and I look forward to
answering your questions.

607
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:34,660
- [Cooper] Thank you very much, General.

608
00:25:34,660 --> 00:25:35,770
Ms. Bawden.

609
00:25:37,690 --> 00:25:39,510
- Chairman Cooper, Ranking Member Turner,

610
00:25:39,510 --> 00:25:40,900
and members of the subcommittee,

611
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:43,530
thank you for inviting
me to discuss GAO's views

612
00:25:43,530 --> 00:25:45,560
on NNSA's plans for modernizing

613
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,480
the nation's nuclear security enterprise

614
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,193
and aligning its efforts with DOD's

615
00:25:49,193 --> 00:25:51,640
to modernize delivery systems.

616
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:52,870
These remarks should be viewed

617
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:56,330
as helping NNSA set itself up for success.

618
00:25:56,330 --> 00:25:57,442
I also have submitted a written statement

619
00:25:57,442 --> 00:26:00,380
for the record and ask that it be entered.

620
00:26:00,380 --> 00:26:02,100
- [Cooper] Without objection, so ordered.

621
00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:03,390
- The nuclear security enterprise

622
00:26:03,390 --> 00:26:05,030
is embarking on its most ambitious

623
00:26:05,030 --> 00:26:07,510
level of effort since the Cold War era.

624
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:09,410
NNSA is currently managing four weapon

625
00:26:09,410 --> 00:26:11,587
modernization programs proposing a fifth

626
00:26:11,587 --> 00:26:13,970
and undertaking infrastructure projects

627
00:26:13,970 --> 00:26:15,880
that effect every strategic material

628
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,410
and component used in nuclear weapons.

629
00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:20,780
Today, I will discuss the
schedule risks presented

630
00:26:20,780 --> 00:26:22,427
by the integrated nature of NNSA's

631
00:26:22,427 --> 00:26:25,230
and DOD's nuclear modernization efforts,

632
00:26:25,230 --> 00:26:26,610
budget and schedule estimates

633
00:26:26,610 --> 00:26:28,370
for implementing the overall program,

634
00:26:28,370 --> 00:26:30,941
and the importance of
NNSA setting priorities

635
00:26:30,941 --> 00:26:32,970
among its efforts in the event

636
00:26:32,970 --> 00:26:36,420
of budget shortfalls or
cost or schedule overruns.

637
00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:37,765
First, on the schedule risks,

638
00:26:37,765 --> 00:26:41,466
because NSSA's modernization
program is highly integrated,

639
00:26:41,466 --> 00:26:43,324
any delay could have a significant

640
00:26:43,324 --> 00:26:46,180
cascading effect on the overall effort.

641
00:26:46,180 --> 00:26:47,950
Here are three scenarios.

642
00:26:47,950 --> 00:26:50,359
First, weapons programs
depend on the completion

643
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,710
of certain infrastructure projects.

644
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:55,940
For example, the W87-1
program will require

645
00:26:55,940 --> 00:26:59,090
all new components
including plutonium pits.

646
00:26:59,090 --> 00:27:02,550
The construction schedule for
pit facilities is aggressive

647
00:27:02,550 --> 00:27:04,070
and a delay could have an impact on

648
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:06,831
the schedule for the weapons
programs it supports.

649
00:27:06,831 --> 00:27:10,390
Also, because NNSA uses the
same production infrastructure

650
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:13,170
for each weapon program
and capacity is limited,

651
00:27:13,170 --> 00:27:16,072
each program's schedule
can impact the next.

652
00:27:16,072 --> 00:27:19,440
In addition, NNSA's
weapons programs schedules

653
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,340
must remain aligned with the schedules

654
00:27:21,340 --> 00:27:23,580
for DOD's new delivery systems

655
00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:27,570
to ensure essential testing is
completed at critical times.

656
00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:30,221
This is especially for the W80-4 warhead

657
00:27:30,221 --> 00:27:32,588
and the Air Force's
long-range stand off missile

658
00:27:32,588 --> 00:27:34,881
as well as the W87-1 warhead

659
00:27:34,881 --> 00:27:37,774
and the Air Force's ICBM replacement.

660
00:27:37,774 --> 00:27:40,903
The current schedules have
little margin for delay.

661
00:27:40,903 --> 00:27:43,420
Second, on budget and schedule aspects,

662
00:27:43,420 --> 00:27:47,460
in the past GAO has been
critical of NNSA's performance

663
00:27:47,460 --> 00:27:49,830
on a number of weapon
modernization programs

664
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:51,910
and major construction projects.

665
00:27:51,910 --> 00:27:53,430
We identified poor planning

666
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:56,400
and overly optimistic
assumptions about performance

667
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,640
that contributed to cost and overruns,

668
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,142
schedule delays, and program
and project cancellations.

669
00:28:02,142 --> 00:28:03,877
NNSA has made improvements

670
00:28:03,877 --> 00:28:06,370
to management controls for these efforts

671
00:28:06,370 --> 00:28:09,240
especially around cost
and schedule estimating.

672
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,150
And it is increasingly paying attention

673
00:28:11,150 --> 00:28:14,290
to program and project
management capacity.

674
00:28:14,290 --> 00:28:17,230
As NNSA undertakes an
increased scope of work,

675
00:28:17,230 --> 00:28:19,410
it is essential that its overall plans

676
00:28:19,410 --> 00:28:22,150
reflect realistic cost
and schedule estimates

677
00:28:22,150 --> 00:28:24,500
rather than best case estimates.

678
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:27,512
For example, while NNSA
has not yet fully developed

679
00:28:27,512 --> 00:28:30,220
its schedule for
constructing pit facilities,

680
00:28:30,220 --> 00:28:32,514
its own analysis of alternatives suggests

681
00:28:32,514 --> 00:28:35,980
current dates will be
difficult to achieve.

682
00:28:35,980 --> 00:28:38,060
Finally, on setting priorities,

683
00:28:38,060 --> 00:28:40,209
the President's FY '21
budget request includes

684
00:28:40,209 --> 00:28:43,950
a 25% increase for NNSA's
modernization program

685
00:28:43,950 --> 00:28:46,830
and anticipates sustaining
this increased funding level

686
00:28:46,830 --> 00:28:49,340
for at least the next five years.

687
00:28:49,340 --> 00:28:53,051
In 2017, GAO reviewed
NNSA's long-term plans

688
00:28:53,051 --> 00:28:55,170
for its modernization program.

689
00:28:55,170 --> 00:28:57,669
At the time, we found that
NNSA planned to defer work

690
00:28:57,669 --> 00:29:01,440
to a period beyond its five
year programming window.

691
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,530
We concluded that these deferrals created

692
00:29:03,530 --> 00:29:07,150
a significant bow wave of
funding needs in future years

693
00:29:07,150 --> 00:29:09,779
to undertake the
simultaneous weapons programs

694
00:29:09,779 --> 00:29:12,007
and construction projects it planned.

695
00:29:12,007 --> 00:29:14,098
The requested budget
increase for next year

696
00:29:14,098 --> 00:29:17,560
suggests this bow wave has arrived.

697
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,630
Requesting a funding increase is one way

698
00:29:19,630 --> 00:29:21,500
to address the bow wave and maintain

699
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:24,520
the overall scope of planned
modernization efforts.

700
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,610
However, actual funding in future years

701
00:29:26,610 --> 00:29:28,680
could fall short of budget estimates

702
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,755
and programs or projects could, and have,

703
00:29:30,755 --> 00:29:34,808
encountered cost overruns
or schedule delays.

704
00:29:34,808 --> 00:29:38,010
GAO recommended in 2017 that to increase

705
00:29:38,010 --> 00:29:39,945
the credibility of its
modernization plans,

706
00:29:39,945 --> 00:29:42,937
NNSA should develop a portfolio approach

707
00:29:42,937 --> 00:29:46,160
as a way to manage these risks.

708
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,948
Such an approach would present options

709
00:29:47,948 --> 00:29:49,640
that could be exercised

710
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,770
if budget or schedule risks materialize.

711
00:29:52,770 --> 00:29:54,880
This would include identifying programs

712
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,627
for which starts could be deferred.

713
00:29:56,627 --> 00:29:59,000
Any such plan would need to be put

714
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,970
forward in collaboration with DOD.

715
00:30:00,970 --> 00:30:04,210
NNSA's most recent long-term plan

716
00:30:04,210 --> 00:30:06,890
includes an assessment of
whether its budget requests

717
00:30:06,890 --> 00:30:09,720
fall within the range of
its program cost estimates.

718
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,270
However, it has not yet adopted

719
00:30:11,270 --> 00:30:13,560
a portfolio approach to
setting its priorities

720
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,080
should cost or schedule risks materialize.

721
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,164
NNSA's planning could further
benefit from this approach

722
00:30:19,164 --> 00:30:22,290
in light of the 2018
Nuclear Posture Review

723
00:30:22,290 --> 00:30:25,040
and additional programs it anticipates.

724
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,730
I appreciate your time this afternoon

725
00:30:26,730 --> 00:30:28,730
and I am happy to answer your questions.

726
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,170
- Thank you very much. I'm
going to hold most of my

727
00:30:32,170 --> 00:30:34,280
questions for the closed session

728
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,490
but I would like to ask Ms. Gordon-Hagerty

729
00:30:36,490 --> 00:30:40,403
about a sentence of her
testimony on page 11.

730
00:30:41,250 --> 00:30:44,383
It reads, additionally,
the request for M3,

731
00:30:44,383 --> 00:30:47,650
that is material management
and minimization program,

732
00:30:47,650 --> 00:30:50,230
supports the removal and disposal

733
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:52,495
of weapons-usable nuclear material,

734
00:30:52,495 --> 00:30:55,688
with priority on removing
surplus plutonium

735
00:30:55,688 --> 00:30:58,193
from the state of South Carolina.

736
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,060
I was wondering about the urgency of that

737
00:31:01,060 --> 00:31:03,470
given the fact that second
sight for pit production

738
00:31:03,470 --> 00:31:06,210
is supposed to be the
state of South Carolina.

739
00:31:06,210 --> 00:31:08,090
Why are we so interested in getting

740
00:31:08,090 --> 00:31:09,750
plutonium out of South Carolina

741
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:11,110
if we're just going to be returning

742
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:13,250
plutonium to South Carolina?

743
00:31:13,250 --> 00:31:15,128
- Mr. Chairman, the
removal of the material

744
00:31:15,128 --> 00:31:17,540
from South Carolina is through

745
00:31:17,540 --> 00:31:20,087
a program for our non-proliferation needs

746
00:31:20,087 --> 00:31:22,691
that resulted in the agreement that we had

747
00:31:22,691 --> 00:31:25,860
with the former Soviet Union, with Russia,

748
00:31:25,860 --> 00:31:30,690
to remove 34 metric tons of
excess plutonium from the world.

749
00:31:30,690 --> 00:31:32,420
And we were planning on doing that through

750
00:31:32,420 --> 00:31:35,623
the MOX program at the
Savannah River site.

751
00:31:36,836 --> 00:31:40,710
But since MOX was over
construction, over budget,

752
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:42,311
under construction, over budget,

753
00:31:42,311 --> 00:31:44,920
we decided to bring that
program to termination

754
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,040
and we made that decision,

755
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,480
Secretary Perry did in 2018.

756
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,196
Subsequently we have
been working aggressively

757
00:31:51,196 --> 00:31:54,960
to remove the 9.5 metric tons of material

758
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,814
still in the state of South Carolina

759
00:31:57,814 --> 00:32:00,040
and we are committed to that approach,

760
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,410
we're committed to removing 34 metric tons

761
00:32:02,410 --> 00:32:05,490
of excess plutonium
from the United States.

762
00:32:05,490 --> 00:32:07,730
And we are doing it through
a tried and true process

763
00:32:07,730 --> 00:32:12,700
called dilute and dispose or
surplus plutonium disposition.

764
00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:14,160
So, that is material that would

765
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,840
not otherwise be used in our stockpile.

766
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,960
It is excess material,
it is not in a good form

767
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,732
and we would have to put it
through quite a number of steps

768
00:32:22,732 --> 00:32:25,502
before we were able to
use it for the stockpile.

769
00:32:25,502 --> 00:32:27,800
That material will go through a process

770
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,160
and then be ultimately buried

771
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,150
at the waste isolation pilot plant.

772
00:32:32,150 --> 00:32:34,144
We have made a commitment to
the state of South Carolina.

773
00:32:34,144 --> 00:32:36,370
We're sticking with our commitment.

774
00:32:36,370 --> 00:32:38,963
In fact, last year we were
under a court order to remove

775
00:32:38,963 --> 00:32:41,950
a metric ton of material from
the state of South Carolina.

776
00:32:41,950 --> 00:32:44,254
We did it six months ahead of schedule.

777
00:32:44,254 --> 00:32:46,210
So, we're moving on that

778
00:32:46,210 --> 00:32:47,850
and we have an aggressive schedule

779
00:32:47,850 --> 00:32:49,610
but it's a doable schedule.

780
00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:51,820
We've got long lead procurements going on

781
00:32:51,820 --> 00:32:53,430
for the state of South Carolina.

782
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:55,160
We've got a program to undertake

783
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,713
that mission at South Carolina.

784
00:32:59,380 --> 00:33:00,213
- Thank you.

785
00:33:00,213 --> 00:33:01,046
Mr. Turner.

786
00:33:02,450 --> 00:33:03,283
- Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

787
00:33:03,283 --> 00:33:07,130
I first want to open by
giving the heartfelt sorrow,

788
00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:08,070
I think, from everybody in the room

789
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:11,470
about the tornadoes that
have hit your community.

790
00:33:11,470 --> 00:33:12,980
And it's a very difficult.

791
00:33:12,980 --> 00:33:14,870
My community last summer
had eight tornadoes

792
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:19,363
that hit the city of Dayton
and the surrounding areas.

793
00:33:20,421 --> 00:33:23,373
It did not make the extent
of damage that you have had.

794
00:33:24,214 --> 00:33:26,400
And I know to what extent
a community has to rally

795
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:27,810
and I want you to know that certainly

796
00:33:27,810 --> 00:33:29,510
you have our support and sympathy.

797
00:33:32,252 --> 00:33:34,230
I'm a big fan of GAO because,

798
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:36,630
I mean, your reports are almost prophetic.

799
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:37,660
You go back and you read them

800
00:33:37,660 --> 00:33:40,203
and you think, gosh,
I wish we'd done that.

801
00:33:42,514 --> 00:33:44,758
I appreciate really just the extent

802
00:33:44,758 --> 00:33:48,760
to which you pore over things

803
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,240
and Allison, looking
at your resume and bio,

804
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,290
what a great academic work you've done.

805
00:33:54,290 --> 00:33:56,960
I appreciate you've dedicated
yourself to the GAO.

806
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,140
I'm gonna ask the group a question

807
00:34:00,140 --> 00:34:01,690
then I'm gonna ask you
slightly differently

808
00:34:01,690 --> 00:34:04,440
'cause it applies to you
slightly differently.

809
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,700
So, I'm gonna begin by reading the quote.

810
00:34:08,700 --> 00:34:11,150
So, last week Admiral Richard,

811
00:34:11,150 --> 00:34:12,980
the commander of STRATCOM,

812
00:34:12,980 --> 00:34:15,130
testified before this subcommittee

813
00:34:15,130 --> 00:34:17,460
and I read this quote
in my opening statement.

814
00:34:17,460 --> 00:34:21,317
He stated, "The entire triad is reaching

815
00:34:21,317 --> 00:34:23,497
"the end of its useful life.

816
00:34:23,497 --> 00:34:26,473
"And so either we replace what we have now

817
00:34:26,473 --> 00:34:30,006
"or we start to divest almost
on a path to unilateral

818
00:34:30,006 --> 00:34:33,470
"disarmament in the face
of this growing threat."

819
00:34:33,470 --> 00:34:35,310
I'm gonna ask each of you
if you agree with that

820
00:34:35,310 --> 00:34:37,126
and then with Allison I'm just gonna ask

821
00:34:37,126 --> 00:34:39,780
does GAO disagree 'cause you're not really

822
00:34:39,780 --> 00:34:41,630
in a position to agree but
I don't think you disagree.

823
00:34:41,630 --> 00:34:43,260
So, to our administrator,

824
00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:45,110
do you agree with that quote?

825
00:34:45,110 --> 00:34:46,340
- Yes, I do.

826
00:34:46,340 --> 00:34:47,720
- [Turner] Mr. Mercado?

827
00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:49,220
- Yes, sir, I do.

828
00:34:49,220 --> 00:34:50,053
- [Turner] Vice Admiral Wolfe.

829
00:34:50,053 --> 00:34:50,886
- Yes, sir, I do.

830
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,390
- [Turner] General Clark?

831
00:34:53,390 --> 00:34:55,320
- Yes, sir, absolutely.

832
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,379
- [Turner] Does GAO
disagree with that quote?

833
00:34:57,379 --> 00:34:58,395
- No.

834
00:34:58,395 --> 00:35:00,780
- Great, excellent.

835
00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:04,220
Administrator, you have been just dogmatic

836
00:35:04,220 --> 00:35:08,750
in ensuring that people
understand that you

837
00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:10,720
need infrastructure,
that you need production.

838
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:13,904
That in order for there
to be a viable deterrent

839
00:35:13,904 --> 00:35:16,297
then there has to be production

840
00:35:16,297 --> 00:35:18,410
and that your system has not been

841
00:35:18,410 --> 00:35:21,350
in a production mode for
a very, very long time.

842
00:35:21,350 --> 00:35:25,600
That in order for us to
just stay with what we have,

843
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,600
we have to invest to be
able to able to respond now.

844
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,080
Most people don't understand

845
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,990
that NNSA under the Department of Energy

846
00:35:34,990 --> 00:35:37,510
is actually where these things are made,

847
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:41,370
where you have to invest in
the nuclear infrastructure

848
00:35:41,370 --> 00:35:45,253
in order for you to be able
to perform and to deliver.

849
00:35:46,270 --> 00:35:48,860
Give us a picture of what you're facing

850
00:35:52,452 --> 00:35:54,369
because as Allison from GAO was saying,

851
00:35:54,369 --> 00:35:56,301
all these are critical paths

852
00:35:56,301 --> 00:35:59,910
which means if we don't
fund these, we miss.

853
00:35:59,910 --> 00:36:03,060
You've gotta deliver,
you can't make a mistake

854
00:36:03,060 --> 00:36:04,560
but we've gotta deliver first

855
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:05,853
or you surely can't.

856
00:36:06,770 --> 00:36:08,550
So, tell us what you're facing as

857
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:11,813
to why currently we
have to fund this bill?

858
00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:15,160
- Mr. Turner, let me start by saying

859
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,650
I'm very proud to be able to represent

860
00:36:17,650 --> 00:36:19,794
the 50,000 men and women that support

861
00:36:19,794 --> 00:36:22,310
our nuclear security enterprise.

862
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:25,100
And in that regard, we are
talking about an infrastructure

863
00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:28,200
that was developed and build
in the Manhattan project.

864
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,040
30% of our facilities were built

865
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,350
and constructed in the Manhattan project

866
00:36:32,350 --> 00:36:34,710
and we are operating in those facilities.

867
00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:36,142
Now we are operating to the point

868
00:36:36,142 --> 00:36:39,560
of obviously past their lifetimes.

869
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,780
More than 50% of our facilities
are more than 40 years old.

870
00:36:42,780 --> 00:36:46,200
Most of our facilities are in
the single point of failure

871
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:47,760
where we don't have replication,

872
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:48,593
where we don't have

873
00:36:48,593 --> 00:36:51,430
a resilient and responsive infrastructure.

874
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:54,240
We have waited for
almost three decades now.

875
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:55,880
We've endured budget caps,

876
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,614
we've endured promises to be able

877
00:36:58,614 --> 00:37:01,859
to increase and to
modernize our infrastructure

878
00:37:01,859 --> 00:37:04,820
as well as our capacity to support

879
00:37:04,820 --> 00:37:06,920
the Department of Defense requirements.

880
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,400
We are at a turning point,
Representative Turner.

881
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,240
We have got to get on with this.

882
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:15,920
We have no margin built in any longer

883
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,070
for our infrastructure or modernization.

884
00:37:18,070 --> 00:37:19,401
And on top of all of that,

885
00:37:19,401 --> 00:37:22,620
while over the last 20
years we were effectively

886
00:37:22,620 --> 00:37:25,030
working on one major
modernization program,

887
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:27,068
that of the 76-1 which we completed

888
00:37:27,068 --> 00:37:29,284
ahead of schedule and on budget,

889
00:37:29,284 --> 00:37:32,470
we are now committed to
supporting five major

890
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:35,530
modernization efforts of
the Department of Defense.

891
00:37:35,530 --> 00:37:36,560
So, we are working.

892
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:37,810
We have a schedule.

893
00:37:37,810 --> 00:37:39,260
We are working, we are committed,

894
00:37:39,260 --> 00:37:40,540
and we are completely aligned

895
00:37:40,540 --> 00:37:41,710
with the Department of Defense,

896
00:37:41,710 --> 00:37:42,650
with our colleagues who are

897
00:37:42,650 --> 00:37:44,308
sitting with me today at the table.

898
00:37:44,308 --> 00:37:46,877
But we have very little margin for error.

899
00:37:46,877 --> 00:37:48,334
We know we've got the schedule,

900
00:37:48,334 --> 00:37:51,340
we know we can commit
to and we can execute.

901
00:37:51,340 --> 00:37:53,930
However, we have limited capacity.

902
00:37:53,930 --> 00:37:55,260
What we saw recently with

903
00:37:55,260 --> 00:37:57,853
the capacitor issue with
the 61-12 and the 88

904
00:37:57,853 --> 00:38:01,363
was a result of the
fragility of our complex.

905
00:38:01,363 --> 00:38:06,083
We have allowed programs
to basically evaporate.

906
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:08,680
Our business sector, if you will.

907
00:38:10,270 --> 00:38:13,000
Pretty much our defense industrial complex

908
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,230
of which we are our own
defense industrial complex.

909
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:18,040
You can't go out and buy plutonium

910
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,150
or put out a bid for things like that

911
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:21,997
and for manufacturing
the unique components

912
00:38:21,997 --> 00:38:25,110
that we put into our
nuclear weapons systems.

913
00:38:25,110 --> 00:38:27,280
Those programs are long gone.

914
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,040
And so, what we are doing is basically

915
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,093
building up capacity from the ground up.

916
00:38:32,379 --> 00:38:34,660
We would have liked to
have avoided this situation

917
00:38:34,660 --> 00:38:37,770
that we find ourselves in
with the 61 and the 88.

918
00:38:37,770 --> 00:38:40,460
That said, we've had
lessons learned from that.

919
00:38:40,460 --> 00:38:42,600
We're able to apply them
to our other systems

920
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,010
under which we are operating now

921
00:38:44,010 --> 00:38:45,600
and which we are modernizing.

922
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,140
We're working closely to continue

923
00:38:47,140 --> 00:38:49,084
to be aligned with the
Department of Defense.

924
00:38:49,084 --> 00:38:53,100
So, we are really at, as I
said before, a tipping point.

925
00:38:53,100 --> 00:38:55,010
We have no more margin for error.

926
00:38:55,010 --> 00:38:57,910
We've got facilities that
need to be modernized.

927
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:59,760
We've got personnel that need to be hired

928
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,930
so we can undertake and execute

929
00:39:01,930 --> 00:39:04,173
our nation's nuclear deterrent.

930
00:39:05,010 --> 00:39:07,333
- Two more quick questions
for you, administrator.

931
00:39:08,768 --> 00:39:12,129
You used numbers, 61, 88.

932
00:39:12,129 --> 00:39:14,200
Can you tell us what those relate to?

933
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,737
Where do those numbers come from, 61, 88?

934
00:39:16,737 --> 00:39:20,840
- So, the B-61 mod 12 is the gravity bomb

935
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,320
that the U.S. Air Force deploys.

936
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,170
That is a modernization program.

937
00:39:27,170 --> 00:39:28,700
It was actually fielded.

938
00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:32,706
The first B-61 was fielded
in the early 1960s.

939
00:39:32,706 --> 00:39:33,791
- Okay, and that's what
I wanted you to get to.

940
00:39:33,791 --> 00:39:36,380
So, 61 refers to 1961?

941
00:39:36,380 --> 00:39:37,910
- Roughly the age at which,

942
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:39,419
about the time where it was deployed.

943
00:39:39,419 --> 00:39:40,752
- [Turner] And 88?

944
00:39:40,752 --> 00:39:43,530
- And the 88 was 1988 or so.

945
00:39:43,530 --> 00:39:46,360
- Can you tell us how long has it been

946
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,850
since we've called on you to do this?

947
00:39:49,850 --> 00:39:53,790
Because, I mean, it's been
over 20 years has it not?

948
00:39:53,790 --> 00:39:55,120
- Yes, sir.

949
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,290
- Since your, the NNSA, has been required

950
00:39:58,290 --> 00:40:02,840
to actually construct the pit,

951
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,440
the nuclear weapon portion of a weapon?

952
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:07,577
Now, what's important about that,

953
00:40:07,577 --> 00:40:09,440
and I want to hear what the year is,

954
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:10,570
how long you think it's been

955
00:40:10,570 --> 00:40:13,693
because people think that once you have

956
00:40:13,693 --> 00:40:15,770
a nuclear weapon you
have a nuclear weapon.

957
00:40:15,770 --> 00:40:20,770
But if you have it and it sits
there for 20, 30, 40 years,

958
00:40:21,230 --> 00:40:24,893
it begins to degrade so you're
gonna have to replace it.

959
00:40:26,867 --> 00:40:29,080
And I think the understanding
that people have of this,

960
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,756
that once you buy one, you've got one,

961
00:40:30,756 --> 00:40:33,591
is contrary to what you're experience is.

962
00:40:33,591 --> 00:40:35,210
Could you speak about that for a moment?

963
00:40:35,210 --> 00:40:36,210
- Certainly.

964
00:40:38,229 --> 00:40:39,990
Let me begin my statement by saying

965
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:43,240
that the United States is
the only nuclear weapon state

966
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:47,973
that is neither designing nor
fielding new nuclear weapons.

967
00:40:47,973 --> 00:40:52,340
We are modernizing our current
nuclear weapons stockpile.

968
00:40:52,340 --> 00:40:55,440
A stockpile that was built
for approximately 20 years

969
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,100
for the weapons when they were fielded.

970
00:40:58,100 --> 00:41:01,081
We have stockpile modernization programs

971
00:41:01,081 --> 00:41:05,800
for all the weapons that are
in our stockpile currently.

972
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,101
And to your point,

973
00:41:07,101 --> 00:41:10,810
we are modernizing them
so what we're doing,

974
00:41:10,810 --> 00:41:14,630
just like I referred to the W76-1.

975
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:16,990
That was introduced into the stockpile,

976
00:41:16,990 --> 00:41:20,900
into the deployable
stockpile in the mid 1970s.

977
00:41:20,900 --> 00:41:23,660
We modernized that over a 20 year plan.

978
00:41:23,660 --> 00:41:25,570
It took 10 years to develop

979
00:41:25,570 --> 00:41:28,076
the technical modernization programs

980
00:41:28,076 --> 00:41:31,580
and then we did the production
for another 10 years

981
00:41:31,580 --> 00:41:34,840
and we finished that in
the beginning of 2019.

982
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,590
That gives you some idea about
the progress that it took.

983
00:41:37,590 --> 00:41:39,200
But that was the only modernization

984
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,900
program we had at that time.

985
00:41:40,900 --> 00:41:44,723
We are now going through some
major modernization programs,

986
00:41:44,723 --> 00:41:47,051
life extension programs for other systems

987
00:41:47,051 --> 00:41:49,490
that are currently in the stockpile.

988
00:41:49,490 --> 00:41:51,818
At some point, however,
to your point, sir,

989
00:41:51,818 --> 00:41:55,500
that we are not gonna be able
to life extend our way out

990
00:41:55,500 --> 00:41:57,853
of our current nuclear weapons stockpile.

991
00:41:59,031 --> 00:42:00,866
It speaks to the unbelievable talent

992
00:42:00,866 --> 00:42:03,980
of our laboratories, plants, and our sites

993
00:42:03,980 --> 00:42:06,303
that they designed and
fielded nuclear weapons

994
00:42:06,303 --> 00:42:08,696
for approximately 20 years.

995
00:42:08,696 --> 00:42:10,810
And we're going to have weapons

996
00:42:10,810 --> 00:42:13,730
in our stockpile for 60 plus years.

997
00:42:13,730 --> 00:42:15,780
- Chairman, thank you for the indulgence.

998
00:42:15,780 --> 00:42:17,320
I have additional questions
for the rest of them

999
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:18,880
but I'll hold those 'til afterwards.

1000
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:19,713
Thank you.

1001
00:42:19,713 --> 00:42:21,990
- I thank the gentlemen for forbearing.

1002
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:23,380
Ms. Davis.

1003
00:42:23,380 --> 00:42:24,410
- Thank you, Mr. Chairman

1004
00:42:24,410 --> 00:42:26,980
and thank you to all of you for being here

1005
00:42:26,980 --> 00:42:27,900
and joining with us

1006
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:30,810
and doing the exceptional
work that you do.

1007
00:42:30,810 --> 00:42:35,810
I wanted to just turn first,
Secretary Gordon-Hagerty to you

1008
00:42:36,190 --> 00:42:37,820
because as you may know

1009
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:43,330
there was bipartisan concern expressed

1010
00:42:43,330 --> 00:42:46,000
in our hearing of last week

1011
00:42:47,380 --> 00:42:49,730
and it goes back to
the fact that last year

1012
00:42:49,730 --> 00:42:52,900
you told us that you needed $16.9 billion

1013
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:56,290
for FY '21 to execute
the program of record.

1014
00:42:56,290 --> 00:42:57,969
And now only one year later,

1015
00:42:57,969 --> 00:43:00,944
we're speaking about another $3 billion

1016
00:43:00,944 --> 00:43:04,270
more than you planned for just a year ago.

1017
00:43:04,270 --> 00:43:06,910
So, I want, if you could express for us,

1018
00:43:06,910 --> 00:43:08,530
do you consider it important that

1019
00:43:08,530 --> 00:43:11,570
this committee understand why
a Virginia class submarine

1020
00:43:11,570 --> 00:43:14,520
was cut to pay for this increase.

1021
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,100
General Milley specifically
said in the last hearing that

1022
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:21,223
he did not think that this
was good prioritization.

1023
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:27,078
- The administration
has made it clear as has

1024
00:43:27,078 --> 00:43:29,960
the Department of Defense,
the Secretary of Defense,

1025
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,800
that modernization of our nuclear triad

1026
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,600
is the number one priority.

1027
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,590
And NNSA is part and
parcel of that process.

1028
00:43:38,590 --> 00:43:41,700
And so, the requirements that we laid out

1029
00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:45,460
for our '21 request was
something that went like this.

1030
00:43:45,460 --> 00:43:48,920
This was a requirements-based
year-long approach

1031
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,334
that I shepherded personally with our

1032
00:43:51,334 --> 00:43:54,240
laboratory, plants, site, field office,

1033
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:55,900
and headquarters leadership

1034
00:43:55,900 --> 00:43:59,151
to look at every single
requirement across our enterprise.

1035
00:43:59,151 --> 00:44:01,946
What was executable and we can execute

1036
00:44:01,946 --> 00:44:04,330
at this level of funding,

1037
00:44:04,330 --> 00:44:05,640
what were our priorities,

1038
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,070
what were our commitments

1039
00:44:07,070 --> 00:44:09,490
based on the requirements set forth by

1040
00:44:09,490 --> 00:44:12,460
the Department of Defense in
the Nuclear Weapons Council?

1041
00:44:12,460 --> 00:44:14,570
This was not just a number that we grabbed

1042
00:44:14,570 --> 00:44:17,530
this was a number that
we said can you execute?

1043
00:44:17,530 --> 00:44:20,500
And I asked in our internal discussions

1044
00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:22,810
with our labs, plants,
and sites leadership,

1045
00:44:22,810 --> 00:44:26,470
will you be able to execute
if we receive these resources,

1046
00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:28,020
if they're appropriated by Congress?

1047
00:44:28,020 --> 00:44:30,360
And the answer was a resounding yes.

1048
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,500
We know we have an aggressive schedule.

1049
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:35,130
I also recognize last year we had not

1050
00:44:35,130 --> 00:44:38,033
asked or sought this amount of resources

1051
00:44:38,033 --> 00:44:40,560
but that was because we have a budget cap

1052
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,870
and we were operating
under other situations.

1053
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:47,063
This is the number, this
is a realistic number

1054
00:44:47,063 --> 00:44:50,627
to get us to resolve
the decades long neglect

1055
00:44:50,627 --> 00:44:53,210
that has been applied to
NNSA and our enterprise.

1056
00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:54,767
- Thank you.

1057
00:44:54,767 --> 00:44:56,353
I want to just turn now to Ms. Bawden,

1058
00:44:58,330 --> 00:44:59,960
and you can answer this with either

1059
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:02,500
a yes or a no if you wish.

1060
00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:06,117
Are you confident that NNSA
can execute an unplanned

1061
00:45:06,117 --> 00:45:09,473
$3 billion, 20% increase in a single year?

1062
00:45:10,916 --> 00:45:12,193
- It will be very challenging.

1063
00:45:14,310 --> 00:45:16,080
- So, we're kind of faced with

1064
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,320
both of those somewhat realities, I guess.

1065
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:20,650
Secretary Gordon-Hagerty,

1066
00:45:20,650 --> 00:45:22,110
so given past practice,

1067
00:45:22,110 --> 00:45:26,640
NNSA is likely to only
increase its uncosted balances

1068
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,640
in FY 2020 given the large
increase NNSA received.

1069
00:45:31,950 --> 00:45:32,913
Is that correct?

1070
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:36,410
- There's a great deal.

1071
00:45:36,410 --> 00:45:37,476
- [Davis] Those are gonna grow a lot.

1072
00:45:37,476 --> 00:45:39,790
- There's been a great deal talked about

1073
00:45:39,790 --> 00:45:42,130
the uncosted balances in
the Department of Energy,

1074
00:45:42,130 --> 00:45:43,860
at NNSA in particular.

1075
00:45:43,860 --> 00:45:47,030
I'm happy to report at the end of FY '19

1076
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:52,030
NNSA had a net funds of only $637 million.

1077
00:45:52,130 --> 00:45:55,519
That $8 billion carry over,
despite the impressive number,

1078
00:45:55,519 --> 00:45:59,130
is in fact a reasonable
amount for NNSA to carry over

1079
00:45:59,130 --> 00:46:01,190
when you look at $100 billion

1080
00:46:01,190 --> 00:46:03,040
program over the next five years.

1081
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,010
In fact, we are comparable to or less than

1082
00:46:06,010 --> 00:46:07,640
most other federal agencies

1083
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,480
when it comes to major construction

1084
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,372
and the life extension programs

1085
00:46:11,372 --> 00:46:14,760
and all of the other programs
that we have to administer.

1086
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,948
- And can I turn to you again, Ms. Bawden.

1087
00:46:16,948 --> 00:46:19,409
Forgive me for going
back and forth like this

1088
00:46:19,409 --> 00:46:21,734
but the reality is I think this is helpful

1089
00:46:21,734 --> 00:46:26,734
for us to get a sense of
the evaluation on both ends.

1090
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,080
Can you comment on what
the Secretary has said?

1091
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,341
How likely are we to see
significant increases

1092
00:46:32,341 --> 00:46:35,167
in the already very large $8 billion

1093
00:46:35,167 --> 00:46:39,260
uncosted and unobligated balances

1094
00:46:39,260 --> 00:46:43,487
if NNSA were to receive all
the money that it's requested?

1095
00:46:43,487 --> 00:46:44,320
- It's a great question

1096
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,470
and it really depends on how quickly

1097
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:48,862
NNSA can ramp up its spending rate.

1098
00:46:48,862 --> 00:46:51,010
There are really two ways to do that

1099
00:46:51,010 --> 00:46:52,918
which is through hiring people

1100
00:46:52,918 --> 00:46:57,090
and increasing activity
on their contracts.

1101
00:46:57,090 --> 00:46:58,193
There are plans to do that.

1102
00:46:58,193 --> 00:47:01,490
The administrator spoke
about the federal salaries

1103
00:47:01,490 --> 00:47:03,555
and expenses increase
that's being requested

1104
00:47:03,555 --> 00:47:05,118
and we do see a lot

1105
00:47:05,118 --> 00:47:08,300
of hiring activity among the contractors.

1106
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:09,680
But that spend rate has to go up

1107
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,902
very quickly to not see those balances.

1108
00:47:11,902 --> 00:47:14,418
- And Secretary Gordon-Hagerty,

1109
00:47:14,418 --> 00:47:17,910
so, one of the issues of
course is that the NNSA didn't

1110
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:20,630
share their budget information
in a timely manner.

1111
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:23,570
So, part of the concern
here is that we want

1112
00:47:23,570 --> 00:47:24,970
to be certain that the proper planning

1113
00:47:24,970 --> 00:47:27,380
was done for this budget if it was not

1114
00:47:27,380 --> 00:47:29,240
shared with the DOD in a timely manner.

1115
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:32,923
So, in fact, they had no way
of responding to your request.

1116
00:47:34,490 --> 00:47:36,910
- [Cooper] The gentle
lady's time has expired.

1117
00:47:36,910 --> 00:47:38,277
If you could give us a quick answer here,

1118
00:47:38,277 --> 00:47:39,450
that would be great.

1119
00:47:39,450 --> 00:47:41,793
- We worked through the
Nuclear Weapons Council process

1120
00:47:41,793 --> 00:47:45,580
and we worked collaboratively
with our counterparts

1121
00:47:45,580 --> 00:47:46,610
in the Department of Defense

1122
00:47:46,610 --> 00:47:48,814
to ensure that we continue to be aligned

1123
00:47:48,814 --> 00:47:51,443
with the requirements set forth by DOD.

1124
00:47:52,750 --> 00:47:54,790
- So, in the future that information

1125
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:56,750
will be shared with DOD
in a timely fashion?

1126
00:47:56,750 --> 00:47:57,760
- [Gordon-Hagerty] We
will continue to work

1127
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,010
through the executive branch process.

1128
00:47:59,010 --> 00:48:01,260
- Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

1129
00:48:01,260 --> 00:48:03,720
- The gentlemen from South
Carolina, Mr. Wilson.

1130
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:04,553
- Thank you, Mr. Chairman

1131
00:48:04,553 --> 00:48:06,552
and thank each of you
for being here today.

1132
00:48:06,552 --> 00:48:08,720
And Administrator Gordon-Hagerty,

1133
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:09,865
I want to thank you very much.

1134
00:48:09,865 --> 00:48:12,497
Several weeks ago visiting
the Savannah River site,

1135
00:48:12,497 --> 00:48:15,599
hosting Chairman Adam Smith to witness

1136
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:18,880
the crucial national security work

1137
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,400
that NNSA does at the site.

1138
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,654
And I am also very happy
to extend a warm welcome

1139
00:48:24,654 --> 00:48:28,000
to any of my colleagues
who'd like to visit the site

1140
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,310
to see the critical work
that's taking place there

1141
00:48:31,310 --> 00:48:33,600
and it's especially meaningful to me.

1142
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,140
I'm the only member of Congress who's

1143
00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:37,230
ever worked at the Savannah River site

1144
00:48:37,230 --> 00:48:39,400
and so I know how capable
the people are who

1145
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,040
are there on behalf of
the American citizens.

1146
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,519
With that, Administrator,
how is the site progressing

1147
00:48:46,519 --> 00:48:49,360
with the conceptual
design for the proposed

1148
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,156
Savannah River plutonium
processing facility

1149
00:48:52,156 --> 00:48:53,920
and what is the current schedule

1150
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,443
for the crucial Decision 1 package?

1151
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,060
- Representative Wilson,

1152
00:49:00,060 --> 00:49:03,390
we are making great progress
in conceptual design

1153
00:49:03,390 --> 00:49:05,170
and we are hopeful that the contractor

1154
00:49:05,170 --> 00:49:08,060
that is working that process
at Savannah River site

1155
00:49:08,060 --> 00:49:09,760
will have that to us this year.

1156
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:14,720
Critical Decision 1 or
CD1 will be provided

1157
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:17,639
and will be executed in FY '21 with

1158
00:49:17,639 --> 00:49:22,159
the request for our
funding at $442 million.

1159
00:49:22,159 --> 00:49:25,130
- That's very encouraging
and I know my constituents

1160
00:49:25,130 --> 00:49:30,130
are very happy about any expedited effort.

1161
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:34,950
Admiral Wolfe, the Navy fielded the W76-2

1162
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:37,770
low-yield warhead earlier this month.

1163
00:49:37,770 --> 00:49:39,865
The Nuclear Posture Review identifies

1164
00:49:39,865 --> 00:49:42,550
the requirement to modify a small number

1165
00:49:42,550 --> 00:49:45,090
of submarine-launched
ballistic missile warheads

1166
00:49:45,090 --> 00:49:47,841
to combat potential
adversaries such as Russia

1167
00:49:47,841 --> 00:49:52,841
who believe that employment of
the low-yield nuclear weapons

1168
00:49:53,410 --> 00:49:56,270
give them an advantage
over the United States.

1169
00:49:56,270 --> 00:50:01,270
However, the W76-2 is one
of two varieties of W76

1170
00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:07,670
which just completed its life
service extension program.

1171
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:10,428
These systems will require
modernization in the coming years

1172
00:50:10,428 --> 00:50:13,700
as their cores are increasingly older.

1173
00:50:13,700 --> 00:50:16,604
What are the steps is
the Department taking

1174
00:50:16,604 --> 00:50:21,046
to ensure seamless
modernization of these systems

1175
00:50:21,046 --> 00:50:24,164
and to ensure that readiness
is not impacted given

1176
00:50:24,164 --> 00:50:28,000
the growing nuclear
threat of other countries?

1177
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,740
Additionally, what steps
are being taken to ensure

1178
00:50:30,740 --> 00:50:33,503
that the U.S. maintains
its nuclear deterrent?

1179
00:50:34,907 --> 00:50:35,840
- Yes, sir, thank you for the questions.

1180
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,630
So, the answer to your first part of that

1181
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:40,621
is we continue to work with NNSA

1182
00:50:40,621 --> 00:50:43,507
as Ms. Gordon-Hagerty
said on the modernization,

1183
00:50:43,507 --> 00:50:45,837
on the life extension,
particularly the 76.

1184
00:50:45,837 --> 00:50:47,729
And as we went through that program

1185
00:50:47,729 --> 00:50:50,700
we were lockstep with NNSA

1186
00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:52,850
and so as we've received custody of those

1187
00:50:52,850 --> 00:50:53,930
and started to deploy those

1188
00:50:53,930 --> 00:50:55,531
we have absolute confidence that

1189
00:50:55,531 --> 00:50:58,520
those weapons are what they need to be.

1190
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,722
As we look to the future, as I said,

1191
00:51:01,722 --> 00:51:03,833
the W88 as we continue

1192
00:51:03,833 --> 00:51:06,730
the alt 370 for that particular weapon,

1193
00:51:06,730 --> 00:51:10,880
that will give us additional
life extension for it

1194
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,910
so that will give us the deterrent
that we need for the W88.

1195
00:51:13,910 --> 00:51:14,990
And then, in the future,

1196
00:51:14,990 --> 00:51:17,740
that is the whole reason
why we are moving forward

1197
00:51:17,740 --> 00:51:21,860
with NNSA on the new program
of record, the W93 Mark 7.

1198
00:51:21,860 --> 00:51:25,550
That will give us what we
need going into the future

1199
00:51:25,550 --> 00:51:29,160
to help what a STRATCOM
requirement is to meet that,

1200
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,000
as well as make sure that
we have a viable deterrent,

1201
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,770
we have a viable path forward
for everything that we do

1202
00:51:34,770 --> 00:51:37,210
both on Ohio and with what we're doing

1203
00:51:37,210 --> 00:51:40,490
with our modernization for the
Columbia submarine as well.

1204
00:51:40,490 --> 00:51:41,323
- Thank you very much.

1205
00:51:41,323 --> 00:51:42,930
Indeed, peace through strength.

1206
00:51:42,930 --> 00:51:45,270
So, thank you for what you're doing.

1207
00:51:45,270 --> 00:51:48,610
General Clark, I appreciate the
administration is undergoing

1208
00:51:48,610 --> 00:51:52,010
a review of the U.S. participation
in the Open Skies treaty.

1209
00:51:52,010 --> 00:51:55,587
There's significant costs
associated with modernizing

1210
00:51:55,587 --> 00:52:00,120
our Open Skies aircraft for
arguably little pay off.

1211
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,315
Additionally, Russia's
violated the treaty by

1212
00:52:02,315 --> 00:52:07,315
restricting our access for
certain areas to fly over

1213
00:52:08,937 --> 00:52:12,564
and also using the treaty for
surveillance of our President

1214
00:52:12,564 --> 00:52:16,393
and his home and the
nuclear command and control.

1215
00:52:18,986 --> 00:52:20,556
With commercial providers able to provide

1216
00:52:20,556 --> 00:52:24,350
the same if not better
imagery for our NATO allies,

1217
00:52:24,350 --> 00:52:25,910
is there any strategic reason

1218
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:28,563
to remain in this outdated treaty?

1219
00:52:30,970 --> 00:52:32,680
- Sir, thank you for your question.

1220
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:37,166
And currently we are executing
Open Skies completely as

1221
00:52:37,166 --> 00:52:41,200
an Air Force to execute within
the bounds of the treaty

1222
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,980
and we are also moving
forward on modernization

1223
00:52:43,980 --> 00:52:48,650
of the programs until told otherwise.

1224
00:52:48,650 --> 00:52:51,024
Regarding whether or not
we should be in the treaty,

1225
00:52:51,024 --> 00:52:53,104
from an Air Force perspective,

1226
00:52:53,104 --> 00:52:56,761
we are in favor of any
treaty that is verifiable,

1227
00:52:56,761 --> 00:52:59,340
enforceable, equitable,

1228
00:52:59,340 --> 00:53:01,955
and to the best interest
of the United States.

1229
00:53:01,955 --> 00:53:03,970
But you are correct that we have

1230
00:53:03,970 --> 00:53:08,220
noted some violations
by Russia in the treaty.

1231
00:53:08,220 --> 00:53:11,474
And really it's up to the administration

1232
00:53:11,474 --> 00:53:13,987
to make a decision on the cost benefit

1233
00:53:13,987 --> 00:53:17,070
of whether or not it's
worth us staying in.

1234
00:53:17,070 --> 00:53:19,140
But until that decision is made,

1235
00:53:19,140 --> 00:53:22,930
the Air Force will continue
to abide by the treaty

1236
00:53:22,930 --> 00:53:25,000
and execute it as appropriate.

1237
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:26,340
- Thank you, again.

1238
00:53:26,340 --> 00:53:27,740
- The gentleman's time has expired.

1239
00:53:27,740 --> 00:53:28,573
Mr. Carbajal.

1240
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:30,740
- Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1241
00:53:30,740 --> 00:53:35,740
Ms. Bawden, the NNSA is
requesting $15.6 billion

1242
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:40,490
for weapons activities
in Fiscal Year 2021.

1243
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:46,430
The request is $2.8 billion
above the NNSA's plan to request

1244
00:53:47,890 --> 00:53:52,890
for Fiscal Year 2021 as of the
Fiscal Year 2020 budget plan.

1245
00:53:53,230 --> 00:53:55,380
How concerned are you about the long-term

1246
00:53:55,380 --> 00:53:58,830
affordability of the
NNSA's nuclear weapons

1247
00:53:58,830 --> 00:54:01,970
sustainment and modernization plans?

1248
00:54:01,970 --> 00:54:05,390
And what steps, if any, is the NNSA taking

1249
00:54:05,390 --> 00:54:08,990
to ensure the affordability
and executability

1250
00:54:08,990 --> 00:54:11,603
of the 2018 Nuclear Posture review?

1251
00:54:14,020 --> 00:54:15,220
- Thank you.

1252
00:54:15,220 --> 00:54:16,370
We are concerned about

1253
00:54:16,370 --> 00:54:18,380
the long-term affordability of the plans.

1254
00:54:18,380 --> 00:54:20,250
The request that was made for this year

1255
00:54:20,250 --> 00:54:22,270
sustained over the next five years

1256
00:54:22,270 --> 00:54:26,558
and we await the long-term
25 year plan from NNSA

1257
00:54:26,558 --> 00:54:31,073
to see what is anticipated as
budgetary needs beyond that.

1258
00:54:32,590 --> 00:54:34,530
I talked earlier about a recommendation

1259
00:54:34,530 --> 00:54:38,330
that GAO made in 2017
concerning the importance

1260
00:54:38,330 --> 00:54:40,023
of prioritizing programs should there

1261
00:54:40,023 --> 00:54:41,627
be budgetary shortfalls

1262
00:54:41,627 --> 00:54:43,705
or should programs experience

1263
00:54:43,705 --> 00:54:45,930
cost overruns or schedule delays.

1264
00:54:45,930 --> 00:54:47,584
And we continue to believe it's important

1265
00:54:47,584 --> 00:54:50,410
that NNSA move toward those kinds of plans

1266
00:54:50,410 --> 00:54:52,573
in case those risks are experienced.

1267
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:55,100
- Thank you.

1268
00:54:55,100 --> 00:54:57,940
Mr. Mercado, the New START treaty

1269
00:54:57,940 --> 00:54:59,870
expires in less than one year.

1270
00:54:59,870 --> 00:55:02,160
While the administration has
said they intend to pursue

1271
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,442
a nuclear arms control
agreement with Russia and China,

1272
00:55:05,442 --> 00:55:08,333
China has publicly rejected negotiations.

1273
00:55:08,333 --> 00:55:10,863
What is the path forward
to engage with China

1274
00:55:10,863 --> 00:55:13,680
and pursue an arms control agreement?

1275
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,693
And what is the strategy if
China will not participate?

1276
00:55:19,710 --> 00:55:24,273
- Mr. Carbajal, sir, I believe
as we assess China's intent,

1277
00:55:24,273 --> 00:55:29,070
I think they see more benefit
to be part of an agreement

1278
00:55:29,070 --> 00:55:33,780
for the purposes of just to
gain information, to understand.

1279
00:55:33,780 --> 00:55:35,510
They have leverage because they

1280
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:37,600
are expanding their nuclear arsenal

1281
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:41,523
while we and Russia have a
fairly robust mature arsenal.

1282
00:55:42,830 --> 00:55:45,990
What they would gain from
trying to be part of a treaty

1283
00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:49,220
and still preserve the
right to continue to expand,

1284
00:55:49,220 --> 00:55:51,770
we believe that there may be an incentive

1285
00:55:51,770 --> 00:55:53,960
for them to want to participate.

1286
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,220
However, we have to continually
assess their motives.

1287
00:55:57,220 --> 00:56:01,950
So, as you state, Russia and China and us

1288
00:56:01,950 --> 00:56:06,950
are in very different states
of our nuclear capabilities

1289
00:56:09,620 --> 00:56:12,350
so we have to be very careful about that.

1290
00:56:12,350 --> 00:56:13,220
- Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1291
00:56:13,220 --> 00:56:14,053
I yield back.

1292
00:56:15,260 --> 00:56:16,400
- Thank the gentleman.

1293
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:17,990
The next questioner was Ms. Cheney

1294
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:19,380
but I believe she has left.

1295
00:56:19,380 --> 00:56:20,513
So, Mr. Khanna.

1296
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:25,450
- Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1297
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:32,000
My understanding is that we have

1298
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,320
about 6,550 nuclear weapons,

1299
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,210
Russia has about 6,800,

1300
00:56:37,210 --> 00:56:41,290
and China has about 270.

1301
00:56:41,290 --> 00:56:43,223
Is that correct, Ms. Gordon-Hagerty?

1302
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:47,430
Or whoever knows the answer.

1303
00:56:47,430 --> 00:56:48,283
Ballpark.

1304
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:52,743
- Sir, I think China seems about right.

1305
00:56:54,164 --> 00:56:58,253
And I think we're capped at
about roughly 1,500 or so.

1306
00:56:59,643 --> 00:57:00,666
- [Khanna] Deployed?

1307
00:57:00,666 --> 00:57:01,499
- Deployed.

1308
00:57:01,499 --> 00:57:03,055
- How many nuclear weapons do we have?

1309
00:57:03,055 --> 00:57:04,795
My understanding is Russia is about 6,800

1310
00:57:04,795 --> 00:57:06,280
and we have 6,550.

1311
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,150
It seems like a pretty basic question.

1312
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:10,753
I think we should know how
many nuclear weapons we have.

1313
00:57:12,435 --> 00:57:13,627
- If the gentlemen would yield,

1314
00:57:13,627 --> 00:57:18,627
the question is to deployed
weapons and long-range

1315
00:57:21,270 --> 00:57:24,106
and short-range and as they just said,

1316
00:57:24,106 --> 00:57:25,820
we're gonna go to a classified session.

1317
00:57:25,820 --> 00:57:28,110
Perhaps it would be best
for that to be answered.

1318
00:57:28,110 --> 00:57:30,081
But the distinction,
while they were all deer

1319
00:57:30,081 --> 00:57:31,940
in the headlights when
you asked the question

1320
00:57:31,940 --> 00:57:34,400
is that you gotta give 'em
questions based on categories

1321
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,017
or they're not gonna be answering

1322
00:57:36,017 --> 00:57:37,679
a question as just an aggregate

1323
00:57:37,679 --> 00:57:40,660
'cause of the way things break down.

1324
00:57:40,660 --> 00:57:41,880
But we do have a classified session

1325
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:44,030
that the Chairman has arranged.

1326
00:57:44,030 --> 00:57:46,240
- I guess what I'm
trying to understand also

1327
00:57:48,300 --> 00:57:50,650
and maybe this would be
in a classified setting.

1328
00:57:50,650 --> 00:57:53,270
10 years from now, let's
say we didn't do anything,

1329
00:57:53,270 --> 00:57:54,810
because I appreciate
Representative Turner's point.

1330
00:57:54,810 --> 00:57:58,300
At some point these weapons deteriorate,

1331
00:57:58,300 --> 00:58:00,440
but that's over 20, 30 years.

1332
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,590
In 10 years, do we track how many

1333
00:58:02,590 --> 00:58:04,860
weapons will we still have operational,

1334
00:58:04,860 --> 00:58:06,973
in 10 years, in 20 years, in 30 years?

1335
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,330
- So, from our perspective,
sir, for the Navy,

1336
00:58:13,330 --> 00:58:16,364
absolutely but, again,
the fundamental discussion

1337
00:58:16,364 --> 00:58:19,440
goes back to what Ms. Gordon-Hagerty said,

1338
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:20,800
what we've been saying,

1339
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,360
even those in the stockpile,
they age every day

1340
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,710
whether they're deployed
or not, they're aging.

1341
00:58:27,020 --> 00:58:29,400
The physics of all of
this starts to take over.

1342
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:30,840
So, you can't just look at this

1343
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:32,940
from a pure numbers perspective

1344
00:58:32,940 --> 00:58:37,463
because as we built
these 30, 40 years ago,

1345
00:58:38,490 --> 00:58:39,447
they will continue to age

1346
00:58:39,447 --> 00:58:41,960
and so at some point, to remain credible,

1347
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:43,780
you have to start modernizing.

1348
00:58:43,780 --> 00:58:45,325
- But we have, and maybe we could

1349
00:58:45,325 --> 00:58:47,850
present this in a classified setting,

1350
00:58:47,850 --> 00:58:51,177
we have a chart saying,
like a corporation,

1351
00:58:51,177 --> 00:58:55,620
here's when these weapons
will no longer be good

1352
00:58:55,620 --> 00:58:58,400
and here's in 2030,

1353
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,000
we're gonna have these
many weapons that work,

1354
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,160
in 2035, these many.

1355
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,690
Is that correct, somewhere that exists?

1356
00:59:04,690 --> 00:59:07,110
- Sir, I think, from my perspective,

1357
00:59:07,110 --> 00:59:09,122
our plans for modernization aren't

1358
00:59:09,122 --> 00:59:12,270
about increasing the
numbers of the weapons

1359
00:59:12,270 --> 00:59:15,033
it's about the quality and
modernizing them so that

1360
00:59:15,033 --> 00:59:19,010
they're still credible,
capable into the future

1361
00:59:19,010 --> 00:59:22,280
but as far as greater numbers of weapons

1362
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,457
is not the direction that we were.

1363
00:59:24,457 --> 00:59:25,850
- But I guess it would
be different, right,

1364
00:59:25,850 --> 00:59:26,960
I mean it would make a difference

1365
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,080
for people to know whether in 2030

1366
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,350
we're gonna have 100 weapons that work

1367
00:59:31,350 --> 00:59:35,140
or whether in 2030 we're gonna
have 2,500 weapons that work.

1368
00:59:35,140 --> 00:59:37,390
I guess the question is on deterrence.

1369
00:59:37,390 --> 00:59:39,760
I believe, I mean you may disagree,

1370
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,700
that there's no way in the world,

1371
00:59:41,700 --> 00:59:43,700
and this is on tape,

1372
00:59:43,700 --> 00:59:44,980
that Russia is going to launch

1373
00:59:44,980 --> 00:59:46,310
a nuclear weapon against China

1374
00:59:46,310 --> 00:59:49,270
even though China only has 270 weapons.

1375
00:59:49,270 --> 00:59:51,483
So, the question is what is their thinking

1376
00:59:51,483 --> 00:59:54,770
on what a deterrence stockpile is,

1377
00:59:54,770 --> 00:59:57,090
on what a second credible,
second threat is,

1378
00:59:57,090 --> 00:59:59,500
how many weapons we need to sufficiently

1379
00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:03,330
achieve deterrence and a second strike?

1380
01:00:03,330 --> 01:00:04,920
Because it's all priorities.

1381
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:06,770
My bigger concern is
is Russia gonna launch

1382
01:00:06,770 --> 01:00:09,233
a cyber attack or election interference.

1383
01:00:09,233 --> 01:00:12,393
And so, are people doing
that kind of analysis?

1384
01:00:13,330 --> 01:00:15,161
- Sir, in a closed session we can go

1385
01:00:15,161 --> 01:00:18,365
into what we have observed and assessed

1386
01:00:18,365 --> 01:00:21,260
with regard to Russia's recent exercises

1387
01:00:21,260 --> 01:00:23,435
they've conducted just late last year

1388
01:00:23,435 --> 01:00:26,880
to try to glean their
doctrine and their intent

1389
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,783
with regard to nuclear weapons.

1390
01:00:29,827 --> 01:00:30,660
- And my final question,

1391
01:00:30,660 --> 01:00:32,100
I don't know if you can
answer it in open session is

1392
01:00:32,100 --> 01:00:35,160
what is Russia's strategy in terms of,

1393
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:37,860
let's say they have 6,000
and they go up to 15,000.

1394
01:00:37,860 --> 01:00:39,000
What are they hoping,

1395
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,420
what strategic advantage
does that afford them

1396
01:00:42,420 --> 01:00:44,460
because they would know
even if we had 5,000

1397
01:00:44,460 --> 01:00:47,230
we could obliterate them if they struck?

1398
01:00:47,230 --> 01:00:49,360
So, what is the marginal advantage

1399
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:53,270
of going from 6,000 to
whatever give Russia?

1400
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:56,290
- Sir, as I said in my opening remarks

1401
01:00:56,290 --> 01:00:58,090
is that our biggest concern at this point,

1402
01:00:58,090 --> 01:01:01,464
one of the biggest concerns
is the 2,000 numbers

1403
01:01:01,464 --> 01:01:04,880
of non-strategic nuclear
weapons that Russia

1404
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:08,450
is maintaining and how they
are updating that arsenal

1405
01:01:10,751 --> 01:01:12,630
and I guess we can go,
again, in closed session

1406
01:01:12,630 --> 01:01:15,510
about how we see their
doctrine of employing

1407
01:01:15,510 --> 01:01:20,510
those 2,000 nonstrategic nuclear weapons.

1408
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,570
- My final question for the
record is I fundamentally

1409
01:01:22,570 --> 01:01:24,290
believe Russia is a has been power,

1410
01:01:24,290 --> 01:01:26,260
they're about 1/10 of our economy,

1411
01:01:26,260 --> 01:01:28,020
they're not nearly as innovative,

1412
01:01:28,020 --> 01:01:29,670
we won the Cold War.

1413
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:31,280
I think they're on the last grasp.

1414
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:32,360
I'm far more concerned about

1415
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,183
the rise of China and other nations.

1416
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:37,770
- [Cooper] The gentleman's
time has expired.

1417
01:01:37,770 --> 01:01:38,643
Mr. Larson.

1418
01:01:43,950 --> 01:01:45,454
- Thank you Mr. Chairman.

1419
01:01:45,454 --> 01:01:50,090
Ms. Bawden, could you explain what

1420
01:01:50,090 --> 01:01:52,960
a portfolio management
approach is compared

1421
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:56,213
to what NNSA is doing now
and why that would be better?

1422
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:58,691
- Thank you.

1423
01:01:58,691 --> 01:01:59,890
- [Larson] In the opinion of GAO.

1424
01:01:59,890 --> 01:02:00,870
- Sure.

1425
01:02:00,870 --> 01:02:02,640
So, a portfolio management approach

1426
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,700
essentially looks at the big picture.

1427
01:02:04,700 --> 01:02:07,057
It looks across all of
the programs and projects

1428
01:02:07,057 --> 01:02:08,980
and it would think about sort of where

1429
01:02:08,980 --> 01:02:10,540
are the performance cliffs,

1430
01:02:10,540 --> 01:02:12,450
what has to be done by a certain date,

1431
01:02:12,450 --> 01:02:14,640
and what are potential trade-offs?

1432
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,189
And it identifies what that trade space

1433
01:02:17,189 --> 01:02:20,850
is so that the agency can
select between programs

1434
01:02:20,850 --> 01:02:23,603
and projects if such
a thing was necessary.

1435
01:02:26,877 --> 01:02:29,487
- And are you arguing in your report

1436
01:02:29,487 --> 01:02:32,397
that that is more likely to happen

1437
01:02:32,397 --> 01:02:36,723
and therefore the NNSA
ought to take that approach?

1438
01:02:36,723 --> 01:02:37,556
- What we're arguing is that

1439
01:02:37,556 --> 01:02:39,860
it's an effective risk
mitigation strategy.

1440
01:02:39,860 --> 01:02:42,270
And that it should sort of be in their

1441
01:02:42,270 --> 01:02:44,490
back pocket should it be needed.

1442
01:02:44,490 --> 01:02:46,950
And effectively
communicating that strategy,

1443
01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:49,490
we believe would engender a level of trust

1444
01:02:49,490 --> 01:02:52,199
to understand what requests
they're putting forward,

1445
01:02:52,199 --> 01:02:55,930
what that request funds
and what options are

1446
01:02:55,930 --> 01:02:58,113
should what they've requested differ

1447
01:02:58,113 --> 01:03:00,030
from what actually happens.

1448
01:03:00,030 --> 01:03:01,624
Of course, looking back historically,

1449
01:03:01,624 --> 01:03:04,956
there have been differences
between what NNSA

1450
01:03:04,956 --> 01:03:07,270
and the President have
requested in their budgets

1451
01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:09,090
and what has been actually received.

1452
01:03:09,090 --> 01:03:10,570
So, we feel that this is an effective

1453
01:03:10,570 --> 01:03:12,963
risk mitigation strategy
should that be needed.

1454
01:03:16,070 --> 01:03:18,636
- Ms. Gordon-Hagerty, thanks for coming.

1455
01:03:18,636 --> 01:03:19,990
And I don't mean this question,

1456
01:03:19,990 --> 01:03:22,050
'cause I respect you and
respect the work you're doing,

1457
01:03:22,050 --> 01:03:24,750
so I don't mean this
question to be too snarky

1458
01:03:24,750 --> 01:03:27,000
but it seems like the
risk strategy right now

1459
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:31,700
is to throw more money at the enterprise

1460
01:03:31,700 --> 01:03:34,283
instead of manage the portfolio.

1461
01:03:36,940 --> 01:03:38,430
Tell me where I'm wrong.

1462
01:03:38,430 --> 01:03:42,860
- I would respectfully
disagree with your comment.

1463
01:03:42,860 --> 01:03:44,460
What we have done is as I said,

1464
01:03:44,460 --> 01:03:45,710
we took a year-long approach,

1465
01:03:45,710 --> 01:03:47,128
it was requirements-based

1466
01:03:47,128 --> 01:03:49,530
meaning the priorities set forth

1467
01:03:49,530 --> 01:03:50,863
by the Nuclear Weapons Council

1468
01:03:50,863 --> 01:03:53,010
and by all of the requirements set forth

1469
01:03:53,010 --> 01:03:54,640
in the Nuclear Posture Review

1470
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,150
and all of the documents that

1471
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:59,705
are guiding requirements for the NNSA.

1472
01:03:59,705 --> 01:04:00,916
- Can I stop you there, though?

1473
01:04:00,916 --> 01:04:05,916
If it is requirements-based,
I'll grant you that,

1474
01:04:07,470 --> 01:04:08,880
that means you always have to meet

1475
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,365
the requirements even
if you run into delays,

1476
01:04:12,365 --> 01:04:17,143
you run into the issues
of programs, platforms,

1477
01:04:18,020 --> 01:04:20,810
delivery platforms and
weapons being integrated.

1478
01:04:20,810 --> 01:04:23,460
If there's delays in one
and not delay in the other,

1479
01:04:23,460 --> 01:04:27,120
then the only way to address
meeting the requirement

1480
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:29,340
is to put more money at it.

1481
01:04:29,340 --> 01:04:30,380
- Not necessarily, sir.

1482
01:04:30,380 --> 01:04:32,870
What we do is we remain
very closely aligned,

1483
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:35,110
almost on a daily basis
with our colleagues

1484
01:04:35,110 --> 01:04:36,570
in the Navy and the Air Force

1485
01:04:36,570 --> 01:04:38,050
through the Nuclear Weapons Council,

1486
01:04:38,050 --> 01:04:39,600
through action officer groups

1487
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,350
to ensure that we remain aligned
through all the programs.

1488
01:04:42,350 --> 01:04:45,240
If we have slips, we are working together.

1489
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,540
In fact, we've recently had
one with the capacitor issue

1490
01:04:48,540 --> 01:04:51,405
and we remain fully
aligned with our colleagues

1491
01:04:51,405 --> 01:04:56,405
to ensure that any slippage
in the program continues.

1492
01:04:57,050 --> 01:05:00,730
- I would note that last
week we perhaps heard

1493
01:05:00,730 --> 01:05:02,890
that the Chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff

1494
01:05:02,890 --> 01:05:05,680
is not part of that group
that's fully aligned with you

1495
01:05:06,550 --> 01:05:11,110
in testimony where he wasn't
part of that decision making

1496
01:05:11,110 --> 01:05:13,730
where the money was taken
out of ship building

1497
01:05:13,730 --> 01:05:16,290
and put into nuclear weapons.

1498
01:05:16,290 --> 01:05:18,070
So, you all might agree

1499
01:05:18,070 --> 01:05:21,060
but maybe it's not everyone is agreeing.

1500
01:05:21,060 --> 01:05:23,490
I would just note that.

1501
01:05:23,490 --> 01:05:25,050
- If I may, sir, just one final thing.

1502
01:05:25,050 --> 01:05:27,160
We have updated our weapons activities

1503
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,110
where we modernized, if you will,

1504
01:05:30,110 --> 01:05:31,690
or aligned our programs where all

1505
01:05:31,690 --> 01:05:34,380
of our strategic materials
now are in alignment,

1506
01:05:34,380 --> 01:05:35,939
all of our bombs, all of our weapons,

1507
01:05:35,939 --> 01:05:38,027
all of our systems are now aligned

1508
01:05:38,027 --> 01:05:40,953
to reflect modern and future requirements

1509
01:05:40,953 --> 01:05:44,520
that we have so that we
find more efficiencies

1510
01:05:45,846 --> 01:05:47,634
and continue to find
efficiencies and improvements

1511
01:05:47,634 --> 01:05:49,830
to apply higher fidelity

1512
01:05:49,830 --> 01:05:52,630
to our programs throughout all of NNSA.

1513
01:05:52,630 --> 01:05:55,240
- Ms. Bawden, noted that in your report

1514
01:05:55,240 --> 01:06:00,240
that NNSA has agreed to
some of your recommendations

1515
01:06:00,330 --> 01:06:02,670
and some of them are still open.

1516
01:06:02,670 --> 01:06:04,080
Are they open because there's disagreement

1517
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:05,760
or are they open because they

1518
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:08,100
haven't got around to them yet?

1519
01:06:08,100 --> 01:06:10,458
- We don't see disagreement
on this recommendation

1520
01:06:10,458 --> 01:06:13,780
but typically we measure
implementation over

1521
01:06:13,780 --> 01:06:16,320
a four year period which
we haven't reached yet.

1522
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,240
We acknowledge some progress in terms

1523
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:20,620
of planning toward portfolio management.

1524
01:06:20,620 --> 01:06:24,014
Their last long-term plan
that was put out last year

1525
01:06:24,014 --> 01:06:26,494
included an affordability analysis

1526
01:06:26,494 --> 01:06:30,080
but it didn't expose what
those sort of trade-offs might

1527
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,713
be should budget shortfalls
or performance problems occur.

1528
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:36,940
- Thank you, I yield back.

1529
01:06:38,610 --> 01:06:39,950
- Thank the gentleman.

1530
01:06:39,950 --> 01:06:40,783
Mr. Garamendi.

1531
01:06:42,650 --> 01:06:43,660
I thought Ms. Horn was here

1532
01:06:43,660 --> 01:06:45,930
but it looks like she's departed as well.

1533
01:06:45,930 --> 01:06:47,258
You're in luck.

1534
01:06:47,258 --> 01:06:48,970
- [Garamendi] I think
I prefer to get to the.

1535
01:06:48,970 --> 01:06:50,030
- [Cooper] Classified session.

1536
01:06:50,030 --> 01:06:52,160
You are my hero.

1537
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:53,260
What a great American.

1538
01:06:53,260 --> 01:06:54,960
- I'll take what praise I can get.

1539
01:06:57,490 --> 01:06:59,373
- Mr. Lamborn, our honorary member.

1540
01:07:00,330 --> 01:07:01,880
- Thank you, Mr. Chairman

1541
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:03,540
for letting me be part of this hearing

1542
01:07:03,540 --> 01:07:05,300
and for having this hearing.

1543
01:07:05,300 --> 01:07:06,730
I'm gonna have a question or two

1544
01:07:06,730 --> 01:07:09,180
so I may not be as much
of a hero at this moment.

1545
01:07:10,990 --> 01:07:14,889
Ms. Gordon-Hagerty, let me
just ask several questions

1546
01:07:14,889 --> 01:07:18,140
drilling down a little bit on the W93.

1547
01:07:18,140 --> 01:07:19,940
What is driving the requirements

1548
01:07:19,940 --> 01:07:23,113
for the W93 that NNSA is pursuing?

1549
01:07:26,140 --> 01:07:29,258
- The W93 Mark 7 is a Nuclear Weapons

1550
01:07:29,258 --> 01:07:31,140
Council directed program,

1551
01:07:31,140 --> 01:07:32,393
a program of record.

1552
01:07:33,876 --> 01:07:36,516
It was approved by the
Deputy Secretary of Defense

1553
01:07:36,516 --> 01:07:41,460
and at this time NNSA is
being directed to conduct

1554
01:07:41,460 --> 01:07:45,720
a rigorous phase one study to
inform us better on the W93.

1555
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:47,849
I would defer to my
colleague from the Navy

1556
01:07:47,849 --> 01:07:51,423
who sets the requirements
for the W73 Mark 7.

1557
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:54,566
- Yes, sir, thank you.

1558
01:07:54,566 --> 01:07:56,730
So, I think you heard
Admiral Richard last week

1559
01:07:56,730 --> 01:07:58,730
talk about this is a STRATCOM requirement.

1560
01:07:58,730 --> 01:08:00,853
He has a need, he's laid that requirement

1561
01:08:00,853 --> 01:08:02,410
into the Nuclear Weapons Council.

1562
01:08:02,410 --> 01:08:04,450
The Nuclear Weapons
Council has validated that

1563
01:08:04,450 --> 01:08:06,680
and that's why the Nuclear
Weapons Council directed

1564
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:11,680
a new program of record
called the W93 Mark 7.

1565
01:08:11,700 --> 01:08:15,390
My portion of that is the
actual aeroshell development

1566
01:08:15,390 --> 01:08:18,680
and all of the non-nuclear
components that go with that.

1567
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,088
Which is why as we look into the future,

1568
01:08:21,088 --> 01:08:23,280
this is an opportunity not only

1569
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:24,470
to meet a STRATCOM requirement

1570
01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:25,631
but as I said earlier,

1571
01:08:25,631 --> 01:08:28,220
to really recapitalize
everything that we do.

1572
01:08:28,220 --> 01:08:30,740
We haven't developed aeroshells

1573
01:08:30,740 --> 01:08:34,340
or built aeroshells in this
nation for almost 30 years.

1574
01:08:34,340 --> 01:08:36,910
That is a technology that's
very unique to our business,

1575
01:08:36,910 --> 01:08:38,550
to the Air Force and to the Navy.

1576
01:08:38,550 --> 01:08:40,530
And if we don't start now,

1577
01:08:40,530 --> 01:08:42,480
just looking at the basic technologies,

1578
01:08:42,480 --> 01:08:43,730
and as I talked to the Chairman

1579
01:08:43,730 --> 01:08:45,566
about in a closed session recently,

1580
01:08:45,566 --> 01:08:48,127
and look at where we get those materials,

1581
01:08:48,127 --> 01:08:49,983
we will find ourselves short.

1582
01:08:49,983 --> 01:08:51,820
And so we've got to start

1583
01:08:51,820 --> 01:08:54,340
that now as we move into the future.

1584
01:08:54,340 --> 01:08:58,107
- How will this warhead have
an effect on the British allies

1585
01:08:58,107 --> 01:09:03,000
and their ability to support
their modernization efforts?

1586
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:03,930
For either one of you.

1587
01:09:03,930 --> 01:09:05,771
- So, as I said, sir, earlier,

1588
01:09:05,771 --> 01:09:07,643
the UK has a parallel program.

1589
01:09:07,643 --> 01:09:10,200
They just announced it
to their parliament.

1590
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:12,210
Under the Polaris Sales Agreement

1591
01:09:12,210 --> 01:09:13,899
with what I do for the Navy

1592
01:09:13,899 --> 01:09:15,850
and I'll let Ms. Gordon-Hagerty talk

1593
01:09:15,850 --> 01:09:17,400
about the mutual defense agreement,

1594
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:19,240
but we are lockstep with the UK

1595
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:20,806
on what they need to do to modernize

1596
01:09:20,806 --> 01:09:23,350
everything that they're
doing in their business.

1597
01:09:23,350 --> 01:09:24,940
For the Navy's portion of this,

1598
01:09:24,940 --> 01:09:27,520
the aeroshell and all the
non-nuclear components

1599
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,210
they will be involved with us,

1600
01:09:29,210 --> 01:09:31,320
they will understand
what we're doing so they

1601
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:33,610
can leverage that for their program.

1602
01:09:33,610 --> 01:09:36,536
So, it is absolutely
critical for them to be able

1603
01:09:36,536 --> 01:09:40,243
to do that as we move through
our program of record.

1604
01:09:40,243 --> 01:09:41,560
- And for the nuclear explosive package

1605
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:43,250
for which NNSA is responsible,

1606
01:09:43,250 --> 01:09:45,830
we work very closely
with our MOD counterparts

1607
01:09:45,830 --> 01:09:48,870
through the mutual
defense agreement of 1958.

1608
01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:50,302
- Okay, thank you.

1609
01:09:50,302 --> 01:09:52,718
And lastly, is this to be considered

1610
01:09:52,718 --> 01:09:55,160
a new weapon or weapon system

1611
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:57,859
or a different configuration

1612
01:09:57,859 --> 01:10:01,033
of previously produced components?

1613
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,210
- The warhead as we know it today,

1614
01:10:05,210 --> 01:10:06,627
that's what will inform us

1615
01:10:06,627 --> 01:10:09,180
and that will be borne
out in phase one study

1616
01:10:09,180 --> 01:10:10,970
as we undertake that phase one study.

1617
01:10:10,970 --> 01:10:14,610
Right now, it is based
on previously deployed

1618
01:10:14,610 --> 01:10:19,420
and also previously tested
nuclear explosive components.

1619
01:10:19,420 --> 01:10:23,090
So, it will not be considered in that vein

1620
01:10:23,090 --> 01:10:25,810
of we will be producing
a whole new system.

1621
01:10:25,810 --> 01:10:29,440
We are, however, required
to and will be borne out in,

1622
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:31,380
the study that is called
the phase one study.

1623
01:10:31,380 --> 01:10:33,590
So, answering questions
about whether or not this

1624
01:10:33,590 --> 01:10:36,270
is a new weapon or we will
require pits for this,

1625
01:10:36,270 --> 01:10:38,060
it's premature to answer those questions.

1626
01:10:38,060 --> 01:10:39,950
We do not know which is why we need

1627
01:10:39,950 --> 01:10:43,283
to be fully informed
by the phase one study.

1628
01:10:44,700 --> 01:10:46,126
- Yes, sir, and on the Navy side

1629
01:10:46,126 --> 01:10:48,540
this will be for the non-nuclear

1630
01:10:48,540 --> 01:10:49,890
components outside of the aeroshell.

1631
01:10:49,890 --> 01:10:52,420
This will be a continued evolution

1632
01:10:53,489 --> 01:10:55,090
and a modernization of all

1633
01:10:55,090 --> 01:10:57,420
of the non-nuclear
components, electronics,

1634
01:10:57,420 --> 01:11:01,070
things that are very unique to
what we do in this business.

1635
01:11:01,070 --> 01:11:02,079
For the aeroshell,

1636
01:11:02,079 --> 01:11:04,870
we will start to look for
all of those technologies,

1637
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:07,090
like I said, for 30 years
that we haven't done,

1638
01:11:07,090 --> 01:11:08,824
and we've basically got to look

1639
01:11:08,824 --> 01:11:12,050
and figure out how we can
even produce an aeroshell

1640
01:11:12,050 --> 01:11:15,140
agnostic of whatever the
final solution is from NNSA.

1641
01:11:15,140 --> 01:11:17,310
We've got to have this
for all of our systems

1642
01:11:17,310 --> 01:11:18,420
as we move into the future.

1643
01:11:18,420 --> 01:11:21,109
So, the budget that we
requested starting in '21

1644
01:11:21,109 --> 01:11:23,730
goes to develop all those technologies

1645
01:11:23,730 --> 01:11:28,250
so that as we marry up we've
got a solution moving forward.

1646
01:11:28,250 --> 01:11:30,830
- When I look at what the
Russians are doing with talk

1647
01:11:30,830 --> 01:11:32,730
about a nuclear-powered cruise missile

1648
01:11:33,843 --> 01:11:38,717
or an underwater nuclear-tipped submarine,

1649
01:11:41,150 --> 01:11:43,831
unmanned submarine or some kind of vessel

1650
01:11:43,831 --> 01:11:46,140
that goes at high speed,

1651
01:11:46,140 --> 01:11:47,950
those to me are new weapons.

1652
01:11:47,950 --> 01:11:51,710
But to me, it strikes me
and my personal opinion

1653
01:11:51,710 --> 01:11:55,050
is that this is an upgrade
of an existing weapon.

1654
01:11:55,050 --> 01:11:59,190
Would you share that perspective?

1655
01:11:59,190 --> 01:12:00,100
- [Gordon-Hagerty] Our perspective is that

1656
01:12:00,100 --> 01:12:01,977
these are new and novel approaches.

1657
01:12:01,977 --> 01:12:04,570
They are not something that
we would ever undertake.

1658
01:12:04,570 --> 01:12:05,763
- [Larson] You mean the Russians?

1659
01:12:05,763 --> 01:12:07,600
- That the Russians are undertaking,

1660
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:08,570
that is not something that

1661
01:12:08,570 --> 01:12:11,720
is even anything we're even considering.

1662
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,160
And we think that those do not help

1663
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:16,550
with strategic stability talks.

1664
01:12:16,550 --> 01:12:21,110
- But the W93 is an upgrade
of an existing weapon?

1665
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:22,749
- Yes, sir, and at this time we believe

1666
01:12:22,749 --> 01:12:25,580
that because it's based on
previously tested designs

1667
01:12:25,580 --> 01:12:26,950
we will not need to test.

1668
01:12:26,950 --> 01:12:29,280
There will be no nuclear explosive

1669
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:31,250
testing required for this system.

1670
01:12:31,250 --> 01:12:33,000
- Thank you, I yield back.

1671
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:34,200
- Thank the gentlemen.

1672
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:35,640
The honorary member was in danger

1673
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:37,523
of losing his honorary status there.

1674
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:42,320
The subcommittee will
adjourn the public session

1675
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:46,873
and resume in 2337 as soon
as we can get up there.