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- The subcommittee will come to order.

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Good afternoon, everyone.

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I'm pleased to welcome you
back to this committee,

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the department's highest science
and technology leadership,

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to testify on the fiscal year 2021

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president's budget request

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for the Department of Defense

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science and technology programs.

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Before us today are the service's

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technology and acquisition executives.

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These individuals must
divide their attention

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between fielding the best
technology to the war fighters

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as quickly and efficiently is possible,

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in the near- and mid-term,

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and protecting the science
and technological innovations

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that enable the department to
keep its technological edge

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over the long-term.

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Under Secretary Mike Griffin,

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Assistant Secretary Bruce Jette,

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Assistant Secretary Hondo Geurts,

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and Assistant Secretary Roper,

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we welcome you here today,

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and look forward to this
important discussion.

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In a time when our
national defense planning

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has shifted focus to
great power competition,

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addressing the challenge
from rising science powers,

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requires an ambitious plan
of national investment

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and aggressive talent development
in science and technology.

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Funding for basic
research, applied research,

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and advanced technology development

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in universities,
laboratories, small businesses

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and the tech sector,

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seeds the necessary science

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to grow the advanced
technological capabilities

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required for our next
generation military engagements.

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Yet, with bipartisan support

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for a drastic increase in investment

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in our national security innovation base

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in this era of strategic competition,

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somehow growth in the
science and technology budget

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is almost always sacrificed

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to field the mature technologies of today.

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So how is it that this year

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with an Under Secretary of Defense

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for Research and Engineering,

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created for the very purpose
of looking past the horizon

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and with a national security strategy

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that claims to be focused

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on deterring the wars of the
next two to three decades,

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the department was able
to submit a budget request

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that was less proposed S&T
funding than last year?

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Due to inflation and labor escalation

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of scientists and engineers,

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despite congress' efforts to
restore S&T funding each year,

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the S&T budget has been
effectively shrinking

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for the past decade.

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In FY21, with the total department

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and defense-wide S&T
budgets annually decreasing,

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for the first time in years,

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we are left wondering what
the future of our defense

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will truly look like.

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Without both department leadership

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and Congress protecting the S&T budget,

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our war fighters risk
losing the technical edge

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to prevail in future conflicts
of ever evolving complexity.

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If the US is to remain a
global leader in technology,

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we cannot simply play defense,
we must also play offense.

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Investments in science and research

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and other developments effort
across the whole of government

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are necessary and vital to
maintaining a technological edge.

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We must invest in STEM education programs

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that develop junior talent
into the future tech leaders,

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university research and actively endeavor

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to diversify our S&T workforce.

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We must implement policies

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that promote a sound economic, political,

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and strategic environment on US soil

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with global collaboration,
discovery, innovation,

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public institutions and
industry can all thrive.

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And I recognize that the open
dialog and debate of academia

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can be anathema to the secrecy

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we rely on in the Department of Defense.

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But we must also recognize and embrace

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the competitive advantage
our free society provides us

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to out-innovate and develop
better products faster.

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Finally, I must emphasize
that we will not attain

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the technological edge that we need

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if we refuse to take risk,
push the scientific boundaries,

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and challenge the red tape.

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We must empower those who
lean forward on innovation,

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whether it is to be in our
laboratories, small businesses,

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universities, research
offices, tech sector,

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or contracting offices.

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I realize that this does come
easily for the department

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as the overriding culture
is one of risk avoidance,

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but we need to empower the
S&T workforce and community

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to enable technological leaps

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that will ensure that our war fighters

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never enter a fair fight.

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With that, before we
turn to our witnesses,

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I'm going to turn now to
Ranking Member Stefanik

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for any remarks that she may have.

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- Thank you, Chairman Langevin,

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and thank you to the witnesses
for being here today.

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I want to stress how
important our investments

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in science and technology

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and the innovation ecosystem are

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to our national and economic security.

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The National Defense Science
and Technology Strategy

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required by Congress and
submitted in October of 2019,

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rightly noted that quote,
technology will be the currency

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of future strategic competition.

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This strategy identified the
major modernization priorities

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and set a course for continued investment

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and most importantly persistent
focus and accountability

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inside the Under Secretary of Defense

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for Research and Engineering

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and across the services.

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I appreciate the department's effort

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energizing the S&T enterprise

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around these critical technologies

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in order to enable our
long-term preparedness

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for the future.

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There is recognition that the DOD

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cannot meet this challenge alone.

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I applaud your efforts

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to bolster the defense
innovation enterprise

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through initiatives like
the Defense Innovation Unit,

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AFWERX, Army Applications Lab,
Army Open Campus and NavalX.

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However, we must view the adoption

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and application of commercial
technologies as the new normal

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and not simply through the
limited lens of a pilot program.

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Many of the new technologies

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that are being adopted
for military applications

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grew out of defense basic research,

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but were matured, commercialized

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and fielded with private
sector investment.

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Disciplines like artificial
intelligence, biotech,

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autonomous systems and
additive manufacturing

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have advanced significantly

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because of the investment
and collaboration

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across the innovation ecosystem

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to include academia, industry,
government, laboratories

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and the venture capital community.

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I also firmly believe

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that science and
technology is a team sport

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and we must partner with our allies

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to develop the technologies and policies

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that will provide a Western
more responsible alternative

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to China's authoritarian approach.

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The Council of Foreign Relations
Task Force on Innovation

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concluded in their final
report that slower China down

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is not as effective as outpacing it.

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With this challenge in mind,

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we must build the
alliances and partnerships

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that will provide the
investment, human capital,

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and shared research and development

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that can contest the goals
of Made in China 2025.

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However, I remain concerned
that our S&T investments

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represent a small amount of
our overall defense budget,

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and a decreasing percentage
of our total RDT&E budget.

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In fact, last year this Congress

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added nearly two billion dollars

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in science and technology funding

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to the FY20 defense appropriation

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to make up for the shortfall
in the budget request.

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This Congress, and this
committee particularly,

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recognized the importance
of research and development

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to our long-term
technological superiority.

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Any degradation in these investments

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places the US at a
competitive disadvantage,

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and more importantly,
risks skipping a generation

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of domestic science and
engineering expertise

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that is so desperately needed

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and already in such short supply

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in disciplines like AI,
mathematics, computer science

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and aerospace engineering.

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Finally, we cannot allow
our own risk aversion

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or fear of failure to
constrain our military

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from acquiring breakthrough technologies.

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Congress has made strides
over the last several years

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to provide flexibility to the department

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in experimentation, rapid
innovation and acquisition,

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and outreach through
public-private partnerships.

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I'm particularly
interested in understanding

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how these authorities are being utilized

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and what more we can do

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to improve our defense
innovation ecosystem.

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Thank you again to our witnesses,

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and my yield back to the Chair.

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- Thank you, Ranking Member Stefanik.

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We'll now turn to our
witnesses for their testimony,

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and with that, Secretary
Griffin, you are now recognized.

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- Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Stefanik,

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I, in the interest of time,

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would prefer to yield back my
time for an opening statement.

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My written statement has been
submitted for the record.

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I don't think I can improve on it,

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so I will allow you to
pass to the next witness.

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- [Langevin] Okay, thank
you, Secretary Griffin.

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With that, Secretary Jette.

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- Chairman Langevin,
Ranking Member Stefanik,

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and distinguished members

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of the Subcommittee on Intelligence,

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Emerging Threats and Capabilities,

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thank you for inviting me

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to discuss the Army's
Science and Technology budget

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for fiscal year 21,

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and for making my written statement

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a part of the record for today's hearing.

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The Army's S&T program seeks to invest

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in a balanced portfolio of
achieving a modernized force

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capable of conducting
multi-domain operations

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across an array of scenarios

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in multiple theaters by 2035 and beyond.

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Our focus is on discovery and delivery

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of new and emerging technologies,

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then, maturing technology
to reduce programs risk.

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Technology prototypes proof

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affordable and achievable requirements.

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Experimentation with soldiers

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refines new operational concepts

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enabled by the emerging technologies.

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We work closely with Army Futures Command

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to identify technology requirements

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in the near, mid and far term.

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Resources then, are focused

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on army modernization priorities,
though not exclusively,

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to allow for unanticipated discovery.

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The Army's nine priority research areas

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include disruptive energetics,
quantum hypersonic flight,

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artificial intelligence, autonomy,

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and science of advanced
manufacturing, which closely align

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with both the eight
National Defense Strategy,

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rapid technology advancements,

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in OSD's 11 modernization priorities.

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We depend heavily on our S&T program

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to help prepare for the future,

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mitigate the possibility
of technical surprise,

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and ensure that we are
able to remain dominant

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in every environment.

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The Army also employs
more than 25,000 military,

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civilian and contract scientist,
engineers and technicians

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at laboratories across the country

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who are critical assets in
identifying, developing,

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and demonstrating technical options.

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We are grateful to Congress

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for the numerous staffing flexibilities

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provided to the Army laboratories

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such as direct hire authority,
renewable term appointments,

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and other initiatives that
have been instrumental

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in growing the technical workforce

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and shaping their skills
in emerging areas.

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Let me briefly talked about reform.

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With the support of Congress,

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the Army has undertaken
the number of initiatives

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to improve efficiency and effectiveness.

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Our intellectual property policy

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fosters dialogue with
industry early in the process

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so we're clear about our data
requirements and data rights,

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as well as our efforts to
maintain technological advantage.

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Talent management is critical

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to efficient and effective operations.

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We're not only interested
in recruiting top talent,

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but have a number of programs
underway to retain them.

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00:11:42,690 --> 00:11:45,760
This includes a revised
recruiting, retention,

267
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,160
and management program for hard skilled,

268
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,600
particularly STEM,
officers in the military.

269
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,110
Lastly, we continue to expand
our industry outreach program

270
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:58,630
to actively seek out
non-traditional businesses

271
00:11:58,630 --> 00:12:00,580
with new and innovative ideas

272
00:12:00,580 --> 00:12:02,630
that are willing to engage with the Army.

273
00:12:03,540 --> 00:12:06,140
AFC's Capital Factory Innovation days,

274
00:12:06,140 --> 00:12:08,740
the 75th Innovation command,

275
00:12:08,740 --> 00:12:10,020
combined with industry days

276
00:12:10,020 --> 00:12:13,240
by the Program Executive offices,

277
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,210
establishment of the rapid capability

278
00:12:17,210 --> 00:12:19,110
and critical technology office,

279
00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:22,000
open campus at Army research laboratories,

280
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,803
Extech search and many other programs,

281
00:12:24,803 --> 00:12:29,360
have been fostered to just open
these doors for innovators.

282
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,030
Thank you for your strong
support of the Army programs.

283
00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:33,880
The authorities you have provided,

284
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,270
and this opportunity to discuss Army S&T.

285
00:12:36,270 --> 00:12:37,920
I look forward to your questions.

286
00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:42,823
- [Langevin] Thank you Secretary.

287
00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:45,983
Now, Secretary Geurts, you're recognized.

288
00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:49,360
- Chairman Langevin,
Ranking Member Stefanik,

289
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:50,800
distinguished members of the subcommittee,

290
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,200
thanks for the opportunity
to appear before you today

291
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:55,880
to discuss the Department of the Navy's

292
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,750
Science and Technology efforts

293
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:59,980
and how they support the
national defense strategy

294
00:12:59,980 --> 00:13:03,040
and most importantly,
our Sailors and Marines.

295
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,410
It's my honor to represent

296
00:13:04,410 --> 00:13:06,530
the entire Science and
Technology enterprise

297
00:13:06,530 --> 00:13:07,723
in this hearing today.

298
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,720
Before I begin, I would like to extend

299
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,330
the department's deepest
condolences to the two families

300
00:13:14,330 --> 00:13:18,120
of our Marine Raiders
killed this weekend in Iraq.

301
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,170
Gunnery Sergeant Pongo and Captain Navas.

302
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,990
Their sacrifice serves as a stark reminder

303
00:13:23,990 --> 00:13:26,430
of the seriousness of our jobs

304
00:13:26,430 --> 00:13:30,003
as we work together to best
serve our Marines and Sailors.

305
00:13:31,740 --> 00:13:34,500
The department's fiscal
year 21 S&T program

306
00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:37,960
aggressively pursues increased
lethality and modernization

307
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,130
with the greatest potential to deliver

308
00:13:40,130 --> 00:13:42,910
non-linear warfighting advantages.

309
00:13:42,910 --> 00:13:44,450
To deliver future Naval power,

310
00:13:44,450 --> 00:13:46,820
the Navy and Marine Corps
invest in a diverse set

311
00:13:46,820 --> 00:13:49,430
of innovative thinkers and doers.

312
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:52,230
Included in this, are
our technical workforce

313
00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:53,640
at the Office of Naval Research,

314
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,643
Naval Research Laboratory,
and our many warfare centers.

315
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,790
It also includes our over
341 university partners,

316
00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:05,290
91 non-profit partners,

317
00:14:05,290 --> 00:14:08,290
and over 20,000 small
and large businesses,

318
00:14:08,290 --> 00:14:11,620
all working together
to support our efforts.

319
00:14:11,620 --> 00:14:15,400
Scaling innovation requires tool sets

320
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,350
to enhance the impact of this R&D.

321
00:14:18,350 --> 00:14:21,800
Our NavalX office, established in 2019,

322
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,900
creates a network that thickens

323
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:26,380
our ability to share best practices,

324
00:14:26,380 --> 00:14:29,370
relationships and key ideas,

325
00:14:29,370 --> 00:14:32,080
across the entire Department of the Navy.

326
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,440
NavalX guides, empowers
and connects our workforce

327
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,210
to achieve the pivot speed

328
00:14:36,210 --> 00:14:38,663
that we need to have an enterprise scale.

329
00:14:39,540 --> 00:14:42,680
Part of this program
includes our Tech Bridges

330
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,120
which leverage and establish
ecosystems of expertise

331
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:47,680
all across the country.

332
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,650
We currently have six
Tech Bridges established,

333
00:14:50,650 --> 00:14:52,823
that will double in the next 30 days.

334
00:14:53,860 --> 00:14:56,240
I'd like to thank Congress for
the wide range of authorities

335
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,160
you have provided us.

336
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,990
The Navy is taking full
advantage of those authorities

337
00:15:00,990 --> 00:15:02,930
to increase agility,

338
00:15:02,930 --> 00:15:05,290
refine and streamline
our business processes,

339
00:15:05,290 --> 00:15:06,980
and drive efficiencies.

340
00:15:06,980 --> 00:15:09,140
These authorities are making
a real difference every day

341
00:15:09,140 --> 00:15:10,330
in how the Department of the Navy

342
00:15:10,330 --> 00:15:12,800
both recapitalizes our capital assets

343
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,560
and strengthens our workforce.

344
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,670
Authorities such as 233 of the FY2017 NDAA

345
00:15:18,670 --> 00:15:20,500
allowed us to decrease processing time

346
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:22,200
for procurement contracts,

347
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,690
infrastructure action, and IT actions.

348
00:15:24,690 --> 00:15:28,580
We saved over half a
million processing days

349
00:15:28,580 --> 00:15:30,530
using that authority alone.

350
00:15:30,530 --> 00:15:32,070
Again, it is making a real difference

351
00:15:32,070 --> 00:15:33,400
to folks down in the trenches,

352
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,470
and I thank you very much for that.

353
00:15:35,470 --> 00:15:37,410
As we continue to
leverage these authorities

354
00:15:37,410 --> 00:15:39,680
and get our iteration speed up,

355
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,670
we're looking for other
innovative business

356
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:42,890
and architectural strategies

357
00:15:42,890 --> 00:15:46,310
that will let us go at
the speed of relevance.

358
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:49,890
These include reforming are
SBIR process where we've taken,

359
00:15:49,890 --> 00:15:52,740
in our most recent BA,
our end-to-end cycle time

360
00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:55,130
from idea to solution on contract

361
00:15:55,130 --> 00:15:58,113
from about 124 days down to 28 days.

362
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,000
We'll continue to work with
our teammates here at the table

363
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,000
as we all try and compete
at the global scale.

364
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:08,690
And we thank you for the strong support

365
00:16:08,690 --> 00:16:10,230
this subcommittee has always provided

366
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:12,240
our Sailors and Marines
and their families.

367
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,990
And thank you for the
opportunity to appear here today.

368
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:16,743
- [Langevin] Thank you, Secretary Geurts.

369
00:16:16,743 --> 00:16:18,410
Secretary Roper, you're now recognized.

370
00:16:22,430 --> 00:16:24,417
- Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Stefanik,

371
00:16:24,417 --> 00:16:26,580
and distinguished members
of the subcommittee,

372
00:16:26,580 --> 00:16:28,850
thank you for the
opportunity to testify today

373
00:16:28,850 --> 00:16:31,150
on an important topic for our military

374
00:16:31,150 --> 00:16:32,910
which is science and technology.

375
00:16:32,910 --> 00:16:35,140
It's an honor to represent the
Department of the Air Force

376
00:16:35,140 --> 00:16:37,450
and to be here with my
distinguished colleagues.

377
00:16:37,450 --> 00:16:39,150
And as I testified last year,

378
00:16:39,150 --> 00:16:42,010
preparing for a hearing like
this is good for the soul.

379
00:16:42,010 --> 00:16:44,360
You get to go through
a lot of amazing ideas,

380
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,740
amazing technology that
are being worked on

381
00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:48,480
by people in our laboratory

382
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,120
that really do make science fiction

383
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,600
sound like it's going to
be real in the future.

384
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,000
Two I'd like to highlight

385
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,390
are one group working
on nano-sized sonograms

386
00:16:57,390 --> 00:17:00,180
that are trying to make
the Star Trek tricorder

387
00:17:00,180 --> 00:17:01,810
a reality in future.

388
00:17:01,810 --> 00:17:05,210
And another is a new material
called samarium nickel oxide

389
00:17:05,210 --> 00:17:07,840
which decouples the
temperature of that material

390
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,330
from it's thermal emission,

391
00:17:09,330 --> 00:17:10,940
paving the way for what could be

392
00:17:10,940 --> 00:17:12,400
a cloaking device in future.

393
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,730
So I'm all for making Star Trek real

394
00:17:14,730 --> 00:17:16,350
for the military in the future.

395
00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:19,190
We just need to work drive
to get it over the goal line.

396
00:17:19,190 --> 00:17:21,640
It's easy to stand back
from amazing technology,

397
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,500
amazing ideas like that,

398
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:25,940
and feel comforted that
the future of our military

399
00:17:25,940 --> 00:17:26,880
is in good hands,

400
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,140
and I have all of the confidence
in our research enterprise,

401
00:17:30,140 --> 00:17:32,470
but our national security
strategy makes it clear

402
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:34,080
we are competing against peers

403
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,440
that can match us tech for
tech, person for person,

404
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,100
and so we have to bring
a competitive mindset

405
00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:41,890
into this important portfolio

406
00:17:41,890 --> 00:17:44,800
and make days and weeks count.

407
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,360
Last year, we requested
2.8 billion dollars

408
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,050
in our S&T account of the
Department of the Air Force,

409
00:17:50,050 --> 00:17:52,400
up 6% on the previous year.

410
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,970
We were able to hold that steady

411
00:17:53,970 --> 00:17:56,110
in this fiscal year in our request,

412
00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:58,190
but take up our research
and development efforts

413
00:17:58,190 --> 00:17:59,880
in classified S&T.

414
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,420
I'd be happy to share the
classified portfolio with you

415
00:18:02,420 --> 00:18:04,290
in a closed setting.

416
00:18:04,290 --> 00:18:06,060
We've also made a significant reform

417
00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:08,540
in consolidating our program elements.

418
00:18:08,540 --> 00:18:11,360
We're wanting to put
the amount of accounts

419
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:12,410
that we have in S&T,

420
00:18:12,410 --> 00:18:13,470
we want to reduce them

421
00:18:13,470 --> 00:18:16,210
so we have greater flexibility and agility

422
00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:20,760
to adapt to successes and
also commercial tech trends.

423
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,030
Both yourself, Mr. Chairman,

424
00:18:22,030 --> 00:18:23,300
and Ranking Member Stefanik,

425
00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:25,310
your opening comments make it clear

426
00:18:25,310 --> 00:18:28,420
that are challenge is that
we're a free and open society

427
00:18:28,420 --> 00:18:30,680
competing against a closed society.

428
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,280
And the closed society
that China and others have

429
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,190
give them the ability to
nationalize their industry base,

430
00:18:36,190 --> 00:18:38,410
and nationalize their S&T efforts.

431
00:18:38,410 --> 00:18:39,890
So we're going to have to find a way

432
00:18:39,890 --> 00:18:41,700
to make the Department of Defense

433
00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:45,220
work in this broader ecosystem
in a way that's win-win.

434
00:18:45,220 --> 00:18:48,430
We are currently 20% of
the R&D in this country,

435
00:18:48,430 --> 00:18:50,270
80% is commercial.

436
00:18:50,270 --> 00:18:53,360
If we don't find a way to work in the 80%,

437
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:56,090
then doing the 20% well
will be insufficient

438
00:18:56,090 --> 00:18:58,600
to compete and win long-term.

439
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,010
So we have to do four things

440
00:19:00,010 --> 00:19:02,000
to become a modern S&T enterprise

441
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,120
that can compete and win long-term:

442
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,210
We need to be the best
inventor of technology

443
00:19:06,210 --> 00:19:08,410
that we're not going to get
from the commercial sector,

444
00:19:08,410 --> 00:19:10,250
either at all or on time,

445
00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:12,380
we need to be the best
leverager of technology

446
00:19:12,380 --> 00:19:14,600
that's coming out of
commercial innovation,

447
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,070
and we also need to be a partner

448
00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:18,320
and a catalyzer of commercial tech,

449
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,130
and then finally, as all of
my colleagues have noted,

450
00:19:21,130 --> 00:19:22,700
we have to compete for talent.

451
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:25,570
All of this is on a foundational bedrock

452
00:19:25,570 --> 00:19:28,050
of quality people that are world-leading

453
00:19:28,050 --> 00:19:29,770
focused on our missions.

454
00:19:29,770 --> 00:19:32,200
So I'll go through an
example or two of each.

455
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,190
In terms of inventing,

456
00:19:34,190 --> 00:19:37,780
there so many military unique
technology applications

457
00:19:37,780 --> 00:19:40,080
that we need world leading researchers on.

458
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,100
Hypersonics and direct
energy probably come to mind,

459
00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:45,520
but there are things
we need to start doing

460
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,750
on next-generation solid state devices

461
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:49,670
that will be required by the military

462
00:19:49,670 --> 00:19:51,490
before they will commercially,

463
00:19:51,490 --> 00:19:53,370
that our research lab
is leading the charge,

464
00:19:53,370 --> 00:19:56,080
working with universities
across the country.

465
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,210
I'm also excited that the
Department of the Air Force

466
00:19:58,210 --> 00:19:59,880
has created a new process

467
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,770
to help transition
technology out of the lab

468
00:20:02,770 --> 00:20:03,890
and into programs of record.

469
00:20:03,890 --> 00:20:05,390
We didn't have one before.

470
00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:08,480
So we've modeled this process
called Vanguard Process,

471
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,730
after the strategic capabilities office

472
00:20:10,730 --> 00:20:14,720
partnering the technologist
with a program executive officer

473
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,860
so that the details of transition,

474
00:20:16,860 --> 00:20:19,320
the logistics, the cost, the training,

475
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,390
that might not be
resident in the laboratory

476
00:20:21,390 --> 00:20:24,130
get augmented by a
program executive officer

477
00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:27,080
that knows what needs to be
done to get to the goal line.

478
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,270
We're leveraging technologies like AI

479
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:31,690
across initiatives like FuelAI

480
00:20:31,690 --> 00:20:33,430
in our Distributed Common Ground Station

481
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:34,870
and have finally gotten that

482
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:37,050
to initial operational capability.

483
00:20:37,050 --> 00:20:40,150
And we're partnering on reforms like SBIR,

484
00:20:40,150 --> 00:20:43,600
fundamentally changing the way
we work with tech startups,

485
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,990
increasing our output by threefold,

486
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:46,960
and bringing companies

487
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,960
that wouldn't have worked
with the Air Force in.

488
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,700
I'll be happy to share
more details in testimony.

489
00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:53,410
Finally, the new thing we're working on

490
00:20:53,410 --> 00:20:56,460
that I hope to testify more
on next year is catalyzing.

491
00:20:56,460 --> 00:20:57,500
I have an example or two

492
00:20:57,500 --> 00:20:59,500
which we can hit in the hearing today,

493
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:02,350
but we need to look at work
commercial markets are going,

494
00:21:02,350 --> 00:21:03,680
skate ahead of the puck,

495
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,070
and see how the military
market can help bring,

496
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:09,190
not just commercial technology
to bear for the war fighter,

497
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:10,860
but markets to bear in this country

498
00:21:10,860 --> 00:21:12,620
faster than in our competitors.

499
00:21:12,620 --> 00:21:15,420
That's part of competing
in the global ecosystem

500
00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:17,440
where we play a role that is synergistic

501
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,470
with our commercial counterparts.

502
00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:21,470
And finally, with respect to talent,

503
00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:23,160
as I said, it's foundational.

504
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,610
You've given us
authorities to hire better,

505
00:21:25,610 --> 00:21:29,220
hire faster and be competitive
with commercial pay scales.

506
00:21:29,220 --> 00:21:31,540
We've used these aggressively
in the Air Force,

507
00:21:31,540 --> 00:21:33,670
we've gotten great talent,
but we can do more.

508
00:21:33,670 --> 00:21:36,650
We can never be satisfied
with the talent we have.

509
00:21:36,650 --> 00:21:38,370
Thank you for your questions today,

510
00:21:38,370 --> 00:21:40,840
and thank you again for this hearing.

511
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,290
- Thank you, Secretary Roper.

512
00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:46,230
And thank you gentlemen, for
your testimony here today.

513
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:47,470
We'll now go to member questions.

514
00:21:47,470 --> 00:21:49,920
I'll stop by recognizing
myself for five minutes.

515
00:21:51,620 --> 00:21:54,630
Secretary Griffin, I'll start with you.

516
00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:56,580
As the R&E, we look to you

517
00:21:56,580 --> 00:21:58,597
to champion the science and technology

518
00:21:58,597 --> 00:22:02,150
and innovation ecosystem
of the department.

519
00:22:02,150 --> 00:22:03,680
Of course, we were disappointed to see

520
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,410
that this year, the 6.1 to 6.3 S&T budget

521
00:22:07,410 --> 00:22:10,540
was less than last year.

522
00:22:10,540 --> 00:22:12,840
The defense planning guidance
has historically directed

523
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,410
at least 0% real growth,

524
00:22:15,410 --> 00:22:17,640
so the S&T budget was effectively

525
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,260
a half a million dollars
less than we expected.

526
00:22:20,260 --> 00:22:23,100
Indeed, your defense-wide R&D budget

527
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:28,100
was even 245 million dollars
less than last year's request.

528
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,370
How did the department walk
away from its commitment

529
00:22:30,370 --> 00:22:34,053
to protect the science and
technology budget this year?

530
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:38,950
- Thank you.

531
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:42,650
Sir, the department has
not walked away from that.

532
00:22:42,650 --> 00:22:45,963
We highly value S&T funding.

533
00:22:48,670 --> 00:22:50,360
This is a tough budget environment,

534
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:52,050
we don't have top-line growth,

535
00:22:52,050 --> 00:22:54,543
and we have many, many priorities.

536
00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,010
As we went through our budget work,

537
00:23:00,010 --> 00:23:05,010
I, in fact, was an advocate in
R&E for S&T top line growth,

538
00:23:07,940 --> 00:23:11,460
but in reality, there are no bad programs,

539
00:23:11,460 --> 00:23:14,540
and in an environment where we
didn't have any bad programs,

540
00:23:14,540 --> 00:23:17,460
we were inevitably, in
order to close our budget,

541
00:23:17,460 --> 00:23:19,640
we were going to have to
make priority choices,

542
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,260
and we did.

543
00:23:21,260 --> 00:23:25,130
When we talk about S&T, I will point out,

544
00:23:25,130 --> 00:23:28,430
on behalf of my service
acquisition executive partners

545
00:23:28,430 --> 00:23:31,950
that actually the Army grew by 6%,

546
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,540
Navy grew by 1%, Air Force
maintained 0% real growth.

547
00:23:37,540 --> 00:23:41,453
It was OSD that took a 4% cut.

548
00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:43,373
So,

549
00:23:45,860 --> 00:23:48,670
the parsing of our S&T budget

550
00:23:48,670 --> 00:23:51,663
was done crossed the
department very carefully.

551
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:57,920
I can only conclude by
saying we did the best

552
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,170
that we thought we could.

553
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,193
- Well, Secretary Griffin, I
appreciate your perspective.

554
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:06,240
I see it a different way,

555
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:11,240
but Secretary Roper, let me turn to you.

556
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:14,940
I'm a Star Trek fan, so I like the idea

557
00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:18,240
of developing the war drive
for the next generation,

558
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,210
but the reality is you're the Air Force's

559
00:24:22,210 --> 00:24:24,000
well-known champion of innovation.

560
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,690
How did the Air Force's S&T request

561
00:24:27,683 --> 00:24:30,280
come in at less than 0% real growth

562
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,630
from last year's requested funding level?

563
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:35,220
And how did the Air Force's basic research

564
00:24:35,220 --> 00:24:36,940
and advanced technology development

565
00:24:36,940 --> 00:24:40,080
decrease by about 8% each?

566
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,090
And what will it would
take for the department

567
00:24:43,090 --> 00:24:47,210
to champion the long-term
science and technology budget

568
00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:52,193
in the face of demands to
field new capabilities quickly?

569
00:24:55,100 --> 00:24:57,740
- Yes, Mr. Chairman,
as Dr. Griffin eluded,

570
00:24:57,740 --> 00:24:59,310
it was a tough budget year,

571
00:24:59,310 --> 00:25:01,960
and sometimes the innovation
voices did not win

572
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,490
at budget closeout.

573
00:25:03,490 --> 00:25:05,450
A lot of things on the Air Force

574
00:25:05,450 --> 00:25:07,460
is plagued with nuclear modernization,

575
00:25:07,460 --> 00:25:09,230
the stand up space force,

576
00:25:09,230 --> 00:25:10,870
join all the main command and control,

577
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:14,800
and unfortunately, when we had
to make the budget balance,

578
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,800
we had to look for areas to take risk,

579
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,360
and I share your concern.

580
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:19,850
Taking risk and basic research

581
00:25:19,850 --> 00:25:22,710
may not put the military
at risk today or tomorrow,

582
00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:24,700
but it is eroding that foundational layer

583
00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:27,840
that creates the game changing
technologies in future.

584
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,970
The one area that I can share good news,

585
00:25:29,970 --> 00:25:31,680
and I would certainly invite the committee

586
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,610
to take a briefing on our classified S&T.

587
00:25:34,610 --> 00:25:38,070
It doesn't reported in wide world S&T,

588
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:39,660
but as we think about competing

589
00:25:39,660 --> 00:25:41,960
against countries like China and Russia,

590
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,890
if we have foundational research,

591
00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:45,260
that publishing it would simply

592
00:25:45,260 --> 00:25:47,240
let our adversary jump ahead,

593
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,770
it's great that we have researchers

594
00:25:48,770 --> 00:25:51,160
that are willing to work with
us at a classified level,

595
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:52,550
not publish their research,

596
00:25:52,550 --> 00:25:54,740
and help us have a military edge.

597
00:25:54,740 --> 00:25:57,190
We made a sizable movement
in that portfolio,

598
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:58,190
and I would invite the committee

599
00:25:58,190 --> 00:26:00,063
to take a briefing if of interest.

600
00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:03,037
- Thank you, and before,

601
00:26:03,037 --> 00:26:05,750
the last question I had
for Secretary Griffin,

602
00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:08,040
for the rapid technological advancements

603
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:09,760
outlined in the NDS

604
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,650
and for your 11 modernization priorities,

605
00:26:13,650 --> 00:26:16,280
last year's NDAA tasked the department

606
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,580
to lean forward on strategically
developing policies

607
00:26:19,580 --> 00:26:23,640
on how we should use and deploy
these future technologies,

608
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,090
and to consider how these
emerging capabilities

609
00:26:26,090 --> 00:26:29,173
will contribute to new
security strategies.

610
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,760
Concurrency in policy and tech development

611
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:35,920
I believe is critical

612
00:26:37,994 --> 00:26:40,320
to successful employment of capabilities

613
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,390
and being a global leader

614
00:26:41,390 --> 00:26:44,070
in establishing norms
of use of technologies.

615
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:46,340
Yet, too often, policy lags development.

616
00:26:46,340 --> 00:26:49,160
In your view, what action does
the department need to take

617
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:54,150
to promote concurrency in
policy, employment concepts,

618
00:26:54,150 --> 00:26:58,053
training, doctrine and other
matters as technologies mature?

619
00:27:00,110 --> 00:27:02,260
- Sir, I will take that
question for the record.

620
00:27:02,260 --> 00:27:04,023
I can't answer that here today.

621
00:27:06,530 --> 00:27:10,940
- Okay, I think that that
would be a pretty basic answer.

622
00:27:10,940 --> 00:27:14,570
We have to make sure that we
are doing policy development

623
00:27:14,570 --> 00:27:17,490
and technology development simultaneously.

624
00:27:17,490 --> 00:27:19,186
This doesn't seem to be rocket science.

625
00:27:19,186 --> 00:27:23,470
(both men speak simultaneously)

626
00:27:23,470 --> 00:27:24,350
- I'm sorry, sir.

627
00:27:24,350 --> 00:27:26,550
I don't disagree, but your
question was quite detailed,

628
00:27:26,550 --> 00:27:29,180
and I want to give it the
attention it deserves.

629
00:27:29,180 --> 00:27:30,980
- Fair enough, thank you, Secretary.

630
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:33,040
Miss Stefanik, you're recognized.

631
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,250
- Thanks, Chairman.

632
00:27:34,250 --> 00:27:36,850
Dr. Griffin, I wanted to ask you about 5G.

633
00:27:36,850 --> 00:27:39,280
As you know, Congress
provided 200 million dollars

634
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,900
to the department in FY20

635
00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:43,630
for the 5G next generation

636
00:27:43,630 --> 00:27:46,610
information communications
technology initiative.

637
00:27:46,610 --> 00:27:48,680
This was, of course, in order to advance

638
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,520
US leadership in 5G

639
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,350
and next generation wireless technologies.

640
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:58,350
The department has requested
449 million dollars in FY21.

641
00:27:58,390 --> 00:28:01,390
Can you explain how this is improving

642
00:28:01,390 --> 00:28:02,790
the government-wide strategy

643
00:28:02,790 --> 00:28:05,290
to ensure US leadership in 5G,

644
00:28:05,290 --> 00:28:08,190
and how has private industry,
from your perspective,

645
00:28:08,190 --> 00:28:10,493
responded to this R&D initiative?

646
00:28:12,530 --> 00:28:14,810
- Second question, or second part first,

647
00:28:14,810 --> 00:28:19,150
private industry has
responded with both feet,

648
00:28:19,150 --> 00:28:21,500
jumping in with both
feet on the initiative

649
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:23,283
that DOD has taken.

650
00:28:25,130 --> 00:28:28,430
As I am sure you are aware, we've released

651
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:34,170
RFPs to industry through
our spectrum consortium.

652
00:28:34,170 --> 00:28:36,520
We are judging those now.

653
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,520
We have received many proposals
to collaborate with us.

654
00:28:42,490 --> 00:28:47,490
We are putting forward
initially experiments on four,

655
00:28:49,780 --> 00:28:53,010
actually we're going
for five different bases

656
00:28:53,010 --> 00:28:56,050
because the Congress has called out Nellis

657
00:28:56,050 --> 00:29:00,060
as a specific base where
we must experiment,

658
00:29:00,060 --> 00:29:02,683
and we have four others in our plans.

659
00:29:03,650 --> 00:29:07,720
We are conducting 5G
development experiments

660
00:29:08,670 --> 00:29:13,103
to include smart depots,
smart ports, smart airports,

661
00:29:14,020 --> 00:29:16,830
capitalizing on the internet
of things capability

662
00:29:16,830 --> 00:29:18,943
that 5G enables.

663
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,010
Critical to our work in 5G

664
00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:24,140
is the concept of spectrum sharing,

665
00:29:24,140 --> 00:29:25,890
in fact, dynamic spectrum sharing

666
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,521
so that we can get, if you will,

667
00:29:30,521 --> 00:29:34,200
more use out of the spectrum
real estate that we have

668
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,230
because the spectrum real
estate is not increasing.

669
00:29:37,230 --> 00:29:42,230
So we're all in on 5G at
the cutting edge level

670
00:29:42,790 --> 00:29:47,790
of learning how to do
the things we have to do

671
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,860
for both spectrum sharing
and internet of things

672
00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:55,860
to make 5G reach the
promise that it offers.

673
00:29:57,010 --> 00:29:58,913
Shifting gears Dr. Griffin,

674
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,470
particularly when we're
thinking about research,

675
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:03,560
and in my opening statement,

676
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,720
I talked about the
importance of partnerships

677
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,270
with academia, with labs,
with private-sector,

678
00:30:09,270 --> 00:30:12,100
there have been several
recent high-profile cases

679
00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:15,020
of researchers with ties
to the Chinese government

680
00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:17,930
and this has brought a lot
of attention to the issue

681
00:30:17,930 --> 00:30:21,370
of research security and
illicit technology transfer.

682
00:30:21,370 --> 00:30:23,690
These concerns are amplified

683
00:30:23,690 --> 00:30:27,360
when these individuals are
working on DOD funded research,

684
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,930
in some cases, for over a decade.

685
00:30:29,930 --> 00:30:31,940
Do you believe that the universities,

686
00:30:31,940 --> 00:30:33,840
the individual researchers

687
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,920
better understand the
nature of the threat?

688
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,090
And what should the
Department of Defense be doing

689
00:30:38,090 --> 00:30:40,710
to protect these important
investments and partnerships

690
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:42,423
when it comes to basic research?

691
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,180
- We too are, of course,

692
00:30:45,180 --> 00:30:48,193
aware of these high-profile incidents.

693
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,440
I don't want to be glib about this issue,

694
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,650
this is one that is of
the greatest importance

695
00:30:53,650 --> 00:30:56,480
to me personally, and to the department.

696
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,020
So first of all, I want to say
that identifying individuals

697
00:31:01,020 --> 00:31:04,290
who are behaving badly
and indeed illegally

698
00:31:04,290 --> 00:31:05,923
is a high priority for us.

699
00:31:06,770 --> 00:31:11,770
We are implementing measures
to gather more information

700
00:31:11,770 --> 00:31:16,500
about who is doing
research on the DOD dime,

701
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:19,170
and we are working with universities

702
00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:22,363
and other research centers
to do exactly that.

703
00:31:24,170 --> 00:31:27,003
But when we identify these people,

704
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,450
whom we believe to be a small percentage

705
00:31:30,450 --> 00:31:33,910
of the total research community,

706
00:31:33,910 --> 00:31:37,500
to us, this is evidence that
the system is actually working.

707
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:39,360
Are there undiscovered people out there

708
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,980
who are trying to damage
the United States?

709
00:31:41,980 --> 00:31:44,263
Yes, of course there are,

710
00:31:45,620 --> 00:31:48,090
but this is the country

711
00:31:48,090 --> 00:31:50,863
from which other people
are trying to steal.

712
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,890
This is the country where other people

713
00:31:53,890 --> 00:31:57,250
want to send their kids to be educated.

714
00:31:57,250 --> 00:32:02,250
It should worry us if
we are not the people

715
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,380
that others are coming after
because then we don't matter.

716
00:32:06,380 --> 00:32:08,500
Now we absolutely want

717
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:10,670
to prevent intellectual property theft,

718
00:32:10,670 --> 00:32:15,530
we want to prevent
exfiltration of key ideas

719
00:32:15,530 --> 00:32:17,163
to our adversaries,

720
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,600
but we got where we are in the world

721
00:32:22,806 --> 00:32:27,806
by espousing an open research community,

722
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,010
an open innovation base,

723
00:32:31,010 --> 00:32:34,210
by being a country where others could come

724
00:32:34,210 --> 00:32:36,603
and start businesses and succeed.

725
00:32:38,185 --> 00:32:42,773
45% of our Fortune 500
companies are headed by a CEO

726
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,440
who is an immigrant or
the child of an immigrant.

727
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,440
38% of the Nobel Prize winners
since 2000 are immigrants.

728
00:32:55,570 --> 00:32:56,403
There is a--

729
00:32:56,403 --> 00:32:59,310
- Dr. Griffin, I understand
the value of immigrants

730
00:32:59,310 --> 00:33:01,050
and I've been long a leader

731
00:33:01,050 --> 00:33:02,420
when it comes to making sure

732
00:33:02,420 --> 00:33:04,910
that we have an immigration system

733
00:33:04,910 --> 00:33:06,790
that recognizes the importance

734
00:33:06,790 --> 00:33:09,390
of those that are highly educated,

735
00:33:09,390 --> 00:33:12,480
particularly in those
innovative tech sectors

736
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,310
as well as in my district,

737
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:16,240
some of the issues related to agriculture.

738
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,800
So I understand what the stats
are in immigration issues,

739
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,140
but I'm concerned when we
are surprised with headlines

740
00:33:24,140 --> 00:33:26,040
about the head of the
Department of Chemistry

741
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,690
at Harvard University

742
00:33:27,690 --> 00:33:31,050
who is using Department of
Defense research dollars,

743
00:33:31,050 --> 00:33:33,110
and that information is going to China.

744
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:35,040
So while I understand your point

745
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,760
that we are the innovative goal

746
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,570
for other countries to look to,

747
00:33:39,570 --> 00:33:42,430
I cannot stress how important vigilance is

748
00:33:42,430 --> 00:33:45,690
to make sure that we understand
this is taxpayer dollars,

749
00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:48,530
and when we're talking about
game-changing technologies,

750
00:33:48,530 --> 00:33:51,330
whether it's AI, whether it's quantum,

751
00:33:51,330 --> 00:33:54,630
we need to make sure that
the US maintains supremacy,

752
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:56,020
and is ahead of the game.

753
00:33:56,020 --> 00:33:59,170
So I know you didn't
want to be glib about it,

754
00:33:59,170 --> 00:34:00,680
but I just want to underscore

755
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,750
that having an understanding

756
00:34:02,750 --> 00:34:04,930
of who is working on these projects

757
00:34:04,930 --> 00:34:06,940
and if there's any foreign nationals

758
00:34:06,940 --> 00:34:11,180
working on Department of Defense
funded research projects,

759
00:34:11,180 --> 00:34:13,210
we need to get our arms
around these problems.

760
00:34:13,210 --> 00:34:14,463
With that, I yield back.

761
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,500
- Thank you, Ranking Member Stefanik.

762
00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:23,050
- Mr. Larson is now recognized.

763
00:34:24,070 --> 00:34:27,090
Thank you, Dr. Griffin, because we matter,

764
00:34:27,090 --> 00:34:30,310
as you noted, can you be
a little more specific

765
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:31,350
about what the department's doing

766
00:34:31,350 --> 00:34:33,750
in working with DHS and the FBI

767
00:34:33,750 --> 00:34:37,650
to share valid counterintelligence threats

768
00:34:37,650 --> 00:34:39,560
and best practices with universities

769
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,290
conducting DOD research?

770
00:34:42,290 --> 00:34:46,930
- Well, we are working with
the university community

771
00:34:46,930 --> 00:34:51,930
and with DHS and FBI to
do exactly as you suggest,

772
00:34:52,540 --> 00:34:56,380
to make sure we know who
is working on our projects,

773
00:34:56,380 --> 00:34:59,873
to know what other funding
sources in particular they have,

774
00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:04,690
to know what their origins
and connections are,

775
00:35:04,690 --> 00:35:06,970
so that we can identify individuals

776
00:35:06,970 --> 00:35:10,590
who are operating here on false colors.

777
00:35:10,590 --> 00:35:13,960
We are doing those things and
we are stepping up our game

778
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,853
as Miss Stefanik suggests that we should.

779
00:35:19,470 --> 00:35:21,900
Any individual who slips through the net

780
00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:23,573
will be a high-profile case.

781
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:29,140
- Is there any objective
analysis of the work of you doing

782
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,310
that we can assess ourselves?

783
00:35:33,310 --> 00:35:35,840
- I will take that for the record

784
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,650
and if we objective
analysis on statistics,

785
00:35:39,650 --> 00:35:41,560
we will get that back to you.

786
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,590
- Just how many how many
chemistry departments

787
00:35:43,590 --> 00:35:44,760
are there in United States

788
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,350
in American colleges and universities?

789
00:35:47,350 --> 00:35:48,420
- I don't know, sir.

790
00:35:48,420 --> 00:35:49,440
- [Larson] A lot, probably.

791
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,340
- Probably a few.

792
00:35:50,340 --> 00:35:52,070
- And there's one that
happens to be at Harvard

793
00:35:52,070 --> 00:35:53,500
which is high-profile.

794
00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:54,550
There might be others, I don't know,

795
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:58,233
but this is certainly a
high-profile case, but it's one.

796
00:36:00,980 --> 00:36:05,522
- And one bad actor can
create an awful lot of damage

797
00:36:05,522 --> 00:36:08,450
as we have seen with other insider cases.

798
00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:10,000
- [Larson] Absolutely, I agree.

799
00:36:11,810 --> 00:36:13,600
- All of our highest-profile

800
00:36:14,838 --> 00:36:18,500
exfiltrations have been insider threats,

801
00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:20,363
native-born US citizens.

802
00:36:22,090 --> 00:36:23,173
Rick Ames.

803
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,580
- Yeah, well, you know,

804
00:36:26,580 --> 00:36:29,040
let us know what we can do to help you

805
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,763
on this, 'cause we do want to help you.

806
00:36:32,835 --> 00:36:33,885
So I appreciate that.

807
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,534
I think can you addressed
your written testimony

808
00:36:39,534 --> 00:36:41,743
on quantum science,

809
00:36:42,940 --> 00:36:45,290
there's no page number,
but quantum sciences

810
00:36:45,290 --> 00:36:48,110
will contain emphasize atomic
clocks and quantum sensors.

811
00:36:48,110 --> 00:36:49,110
These quantum technologies

812
00:36:49,110 --> 00:36:50,810
provide the most concrete opportunities,

813
00:36:50,810 --> 00:36:51,823
so on, so on, so on.

814
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,380
But your statement before that

815
00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:58,130
says quantum science takes advantage

816
00:36:58,130 --> 00:36:59,440
of fundamental physical properties

817
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:00,630
to devise new technologies

818
00:37:00,630 --> 00:37:04,750
whose performance far exceeds
what is currently available.

819
00:37:04,750 --> 00:37:07,810
And then you make some
comment that basically says

820
00:37:07,810 --> 00:37:11,670
we shouldn't get too excited just now,

821
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:15,190
it doesn't do everything
that people theorize perhaps,

822
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:17,260
but it perhaps can one day.

823
00:37:17,260 --> 00:37:20,260
What what are you trying to
tell us about quantum science

824
00:37:20,260 --> 00:37:23,661
that we can kind of look
at it more realistically?

825
00:37:23,661 --> 00:37:26,603
- That, sir, is an excellent
the question, thank you.

826
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,960
It's difficult to pick up any
magazine or newspaper article

827
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,870
focusing on science and
technology, generally,

828
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:40,320
without finding some reference
to quantum computing,

829
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,090
quantum communication, things like that,

830
00:37:44,090 --> 00:37:48,550
that are not the on the
boundaries of physics

831
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:49,587
as we understand them,

832
00:37:49,587 --> 00:37:52,040
but that whose
technological implementation

833
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,770
could be, and will, be
extraordinarily difficult.

834
00:37:54,770 --> 00:37:56,200
Those are longer-term things.

835
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,880
Now, the DOD is, in fact,
investing substantial monies

836
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,920
in quantum computing
and other initiatives,

837
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,980
but the nearer term initiatives

838
00:38:06,980 --> 00:38:08,870
that we believe will pay off

839
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:12,290
are the things to which I
alluded in my testimony.

840
00:38:12,290 --> 00:38:14,310
First and foremost, quantum clocks

841
00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:16,363
to give us timekeeping precision,

842
00:38:18,110 --> 00:38:20,600
synchronized timekeeping precision,

843
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,070
two or possibly even
three orders of magnitude

844
00:38:23,070 --> 00:38:24,810
better than we have today.

845
00:38:24,810 --> 00:38:28,410
That's critically important
for maintaining communications

846
00:38:28,410 --> 00:38:30,190
in a GPS denied environment

847
00:38:30,190 --> 00:38:32,660
where we might have to fight a war.

848
00:38:32,660 --> 00:38:35,210
Quantum sensors for inertial navigation

849
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:37,620
or navigation by other means.

850
00:38:37,620 --> 00:38:39,630
Quantum magnetometers come to mind

851
00:38:39,630 --> 00:38:42,440
for mapping and then following
the Earth's magnetic field

852
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,950
which provides very detailed
navigation information.

853
00:38:45,950 --> 00:38:48,990
These are the things that we
will see in the next few years

854
00:38:48,990 --> 00:38:50,450
and where we are focusing

855
00:38:50,450 --> 00:38:52,830
a substantial amount of our effort.

856
00:38:52,830 --> 00:38:54,130
- And I presume, I think,

857
00:38:54,130 --> 00:38:57,150
perhaps the Chair and the Ranking Member

858
00:38:57,150 --> 00:38:58,350
in their opening statements

859
00:38:58,350 --> 00:39:02,020
talked about the role of
the commercial technologies

860
00:39:02,020 --> 00:39:04,240
in supporting the department

861
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,960
on this particular set of issues.

862
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,380
- We are working with
our commercial partners,

863
00:39:11,380 --> 00:39:12,890
some of whom are spending

864
00:39:12,890 --> 00:39:14,740
quite a lot of money in these arenas.

865
00:39:16,170 --> 00:39:19,090
- I heard there's been
a quantum amount that.

866
00:39:19,090 --> 00:39:20,210
With that I will--

867
00:39:20,210 --> 00:39:21,043
- [Griffin] Quite a lot.

868
00:39:21,043 --> 00:39:23,351
- Quite a lot, sure, yeah.

869
00:39:23,351 --> 00:39:25,334
I'll yield back, thank you.

870
00:39:25,334 --> 00:39:26,601
- Thank you Mr. Larson.

871
00:39:26,601 --> 00:39:27,434
Mr. Abraham is now recognized.

872
00:39:27,434 --> 00:39:29,060
- Thank you, Mr. Chair.

873
00:39:29,060 --> 00:39:31,280
I read your bios on all of you,

874
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,830
and even though I have
two advanced degrees,

875
00:39:33,830 --> 00:39:36,760
I feel very inadequate
among your presence.

876
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,290
I read your written statements,

877
00:39:40,290 --> 00:39:41,700
they are written by scientists,

878
00:39:41,700 --> 00:39:43,500
they are very detailed,
they are very structured,

879
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:45,800
and I appreciate the attention to detail

880
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,800
that you gave into the written statements.

881
00:39:51,250 --> 00:39:54,253
Dr. Griffin, your resume
of course precedes you

882
00:39:55,090 --> 00:39:56,720
with your stint as NASA

883
00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:00,730
and your John Hopkins Applied
Physics Laboratory head.

884
00:40:00,730 --> 00:40:03,370
We appreciate that, and
I'll tell all of you

885
00:40:03,370 --> 00:40:06,390
I personally am very grateful

886
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:09,080
that you are at the helm of these agencies

887
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,160
watching our back.

888
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,750
We know there are bad actors.

889
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:18,110
As Representative Stefanik
said we know they're out there.

890
00:40:18,110 --> 00:40:21,240
We certainly have to guard against them.

891
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:26,240
But men and women of your
acuity where you are,

892
00:40:28,010 --> 00:40:29,530
I think we're in a good spot.

893
00:40:29,530 --> 00:40:31,730
And I simply want to
give you just a minute,

894
00:40:31,730 --> 00:40:34,710
I'll go down the line,
starting with you, Dr. Griffin,

895
00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:37,030
in an open mic scenario
that we are in here,

896
00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:40,660
just to highlight what you
would like to highlight

897
00:40:40,660 --> 00:40:43,440
in your particular realms, just briefly,

898
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,650
so that the general public

899
00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:48,820
that made hear or watch this hearing

900
00:40:48,820 --> 00:40:51,140
knows what's going on at your level.

901
00:40:51,140 --> 00:40:52,790
Dr. Griffin, I'll start with you.

902
00:40:54,490 --> 00:40:56,900
- Well, we have quite
a number of initiatives

903
00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:58,300
as has been said.

904
00:40:58,300 --> 00:41:00,480
We have 11 modernization priorities

905
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,040
taken from the National Defense Strategy

906
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,030
which I've said publicly,
and we'll say again,

907
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:09,970
is the best I have seen in
decades, so I'm bought in.

908
00:41:09,970 --> 00:41:13,280
The NDS urges us to consider

909
00:41:14,780 --> 00:41:17,570
that we are again, in a
great power competition

910
00:41:17,570 --> 00:41:19,410
for the first time since the Cold War

911
00:41:19,410 --> 00:41:21,760
and urges us to understand

912
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,790
that we will not win that competition

913
00:41:23,790 --> 00:41:27,340
with the weapons in
the tools of yesterday.

914
00:41:27,340 --> 00:41:31,650
So in my particular area, we
are working on modernizing

915
00:41:31,650 --> 00:41:33,770
our space architecture

916
00:41:33,770 --> 00:41:37,450
that is critical to how the
US fights and wins wars,

917
00:41:37,450 --> 00:41:41,120
and our adversaries know that,
and they're coming after us.

918
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,210
I have been quite public
about the need for

919
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,370
hypersonics offense and defense capability

920
00:41:50,370 --> 00:41:53,970
to allow us to match what
our adversaries are doing,

921
00:41:53,970 --> 00:41:55,913
and to be able to defend against them.

922
00:41:57,930 --> 00:42:00,480
In a less publicized way,

923
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,000
we have undertaken a wholesale revamping

924
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,983
of our microelectronics initiative.

925
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,330
The DOD is,

926
00:42:11,330 --> 00:42:13,660
most of the important
microelectronics work

927
00:42:13,660 --> 00:42:14,680
is done commercially.

928
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,580
DOD is about 1% of the demand.

929
00:42:18,580 --> 00:42:21,070
We rely on our commercial
partners completely

930
00:42:21,070 --> 00:42:23,200
for everything we do in microelectronics

931
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,120
and none of our systems
will work without it.

932
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:31,120
So we are fully embracing the
need to be able to produce

933
00:42:32,930 --> 00:42:37,670
trusted microelectronics
on a risk-assessed basis,

934
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:39,888
all the way from initial design

935
00:42:39,888 --> 00:42:42,773
right through fabrication and assembly.

936
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:44,970
That's a critical area,

937
00:42:44,970 --> 00:42:46,940
and our industrial base is under siege

938
00:42:46,940 --> 00:42:48,340
from abroad, as you know.

939
00:42:48,340 --> 00:42:49,940
It's in the headlines every day.

940
00:42:49,940 --> 00:42:52,070
So those are a few, with my minute or two,

941
00:42:52,070 --> 00:42:53,880
those are a few of the
things we're working on

942
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,540
that are very high priority for us.

943
00:42:55,540 --> 00:42:57,140
- [Abraham] Thank you. Yes, sir.

944
00:43:01,660 --> 00:43:04,610
- Sir, I'll three quick points for you.

945
00:43:04,610 --> 00:43:08,563
I'd like to just touch base
with the bad actor question.

946
00:43:10,210 --> 00:43:11,860
For the Army, I came in,

947
00:43:11,860 --> 00:43:14,190
I took a look at the students we had

948
00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:16,330
in different universities.

949
00:43:16,330 --> 00:43:20,550
I went to MIT, we have a UARC there,

950
00:43:20,550 --> 00:43:23,930
so I know where to go and I
start rooting around there,

951
00:43:23,930 --> 00:43:27,620
and I found out that I had
twice as many Chinese students

952
00:43:27,620 --> 00:43:30,133
on my payroll as I had US students.

953
00:43:32,789 --> 00:43:34,540
And I'll solicit this,

954
00:43:34,540 --> 00:43:37,083
because I need help, I think, in Congress.

955
00:43:38,090 --> 00:43:41,150
So when I began to try and
negotiate with the university

956
00:43:41,150 --> 00:43:42,750
because we send the
money to the university,

957
00:43:42,750 --> 00:43:46,330
they pick the students that
volunteer to come to work,

958
00:43:46,330 --> 00:43:48,600
not me, the other way around,

959
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,890
because of the way that it's structured.

960
00:43:50,890 --> 00:43:53,860
And their issue is I can't tell somebody

961
00:43:53,860 --> 00:43:56,610
they can't apply for the
program and be selected

962
00:43:56,610 --> 00:43:58,430
because we have laws against

963
00:44:01,870 --> 00:44:03,810
national origin preferences.

964
00:44:03,810 --> 00:44:06,110
So they couldn't exclude
the Chinese students

965
00:44:06,110 --> 00:44:07,650
and I'm trying to do that.

966
00:44:07,650 --> 00:44:12,170
So we're both trying to apply
the laws and apply reason

967
00:44:12,170 --> 00:44:13,290
and it took us quite a while

968
00:44:13,290 --> 00:44:16,440
to come to a reasonable conclusion.

969
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:17,420
I think it's important

970
00:44:17,420 --> 00:44:21,760
not because we don't publish
at 6.1 level the work,

971
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,630
but there's a big difference
between reading paper

972
00:44:23,630 --> 00:44:24,810
and actually having done it

973
00:44:24,810 --> 00:44:27,270
and being able to fill
all those knowledge gaps.

974
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:30,530
So I just think that's one of the areas

975
00:44:30,530 --> 00:44:31,680
we could use help with.

976
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,120
In the Army, we put it deliberate focus,

977
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:40,653
you just saw we kept our
6.1 to 6.3 budget robust,

978
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,253
plussing it up about 5 1/2%.

979
00:44:44,410 --> 00:44:47,650
But we increased our 6.4 budget by 1/3

980
00:44:47,650 --> 00:44:49,780
fundamentally because
for the last 20 years,

981
00:44:49,780 --> 00:44:51,280
we didn't focus on transitioning

982
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,500
any of the new technologies
that were coming,

983
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:56,850
both in the military sector
and in the commercial sector.

984
00:44:56,850 --> 00:44:58,563
So brought those in as well.

985
00:44:59,580 --> 00:45:02,480
That's one reason why we've
plussed up in that area,

986
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,610
and I'm over time, so I'll just finalize

987
00:45:06,610 --> 00:45:09,150
my third one is, I think that there a,

988
00:45:10,020 --> 00:45:12,000
we could have a much deeper conversation

989
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,180
on the relationship between
6.1, 6.2 and 6.3 funds

990
00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:18,770
and how they play out in a time frame

991
00:45:18,770 --> 00:45:21,060
given the speed of technology today.

992
00:45:21,060 --> 00:45:21,893
- [Abraham] Thank you, I'm out of time,

993
00:45:21,893 --> 00:45:24,025
if the other two gentlemen would
give me a written response,

994
00:45:24,025 --> 00:45:25,120
I would certainly appreciate it.

995
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,950
Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
for the indulgence.

996
00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:28,231
- Thank you Mr. Abraham.

997
00:45:28,231 --> 00:45:30,920
Mr. Cooper is now
recognized for five minutes.

998
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,250
- Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

999
00:45:32,250 --> 00:45:35,540
I hope that Dr. Roper's initial comments

1000
00:45:35,540 --> 00:45:39,363
were not too helpful to any
possible adversary out there.

1001
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,680
I know you just described it
in the most general terms,

1002
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:47,680
but it seems to me that
there are funding issues,

1003
00:45:49,230 --> 00:45:51,000
and then there are jurisdictional issues.

1004
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,520
And Dr. Griffin is already mentioned

1005
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,963
that we wish, in many ways,
the funding had been higher.

1006
00:45:57,010 --> 00:45:58,530
Let me set that aside for a minute

1007
00:45:58,530 --> 00:46:00,640
because with jurisdiction issues,

1008
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,500
we're going to have an
MDA hearing tomorrow,

1009
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:08,133
and laser scaling was taken
away from MDA entirely,

1010
00:46:11,300 --> 00:46:15,303
space sensors for hypersonics
were given to SDA,

1011
00:46:16,490 --> 00:46:19,620
and as you all know,
RKV was killed entirely

1012
00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:23,633
by R&E giving us an eight
to 10 year exposure problem.

1013
00:46:24,570 --> 00:46:26,550
So it seems like jurisdiction

1014
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:29,090
isn't necessarily being handled

1015
00:46:29,090 --> 00:46:30,960
in a way that people are understanding.

1016
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,020
Now, maybe there is a good explanation,

1017
00:46:34,020 --> 00:46:35,890
but I'm going to face a lot of grief

1018
00:46:35,890 --> 00:46:37,240
from my Republican colleagues,

1019
00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:41,003
that directed energy for NDA is now zero.

1020
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:45,950
Likewise, in Dr. Roper's testimony,

1021
00:46:45,950 --> 00:46:48,760
the new NTS-3 capability
looks very exciting,

1022
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,710
all these Vanguard
programs, awesome, Skyborg,

1023
00:46:51,710 --> 00:46:53,460
Golden Horde, they have cool names.

1024
00:46:54,690 --> 00:46:56,210
I'm assuming the space force

1025
00:46:56,210 --> 00:46:58,520
will end up with these at some point,

1026
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,223
but you know, good to know.

1027
00:47:03,930 --> 00:47:06,670
There's probably no good way
to handle jurisdictional issues

1028
00:47:06,670 --> 00:47:08,970
'cause everybody thinks
they're the best, but,

1029
00:47:10,980 --> 00:47:12,390
can you help me understand

1030
00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:14,200
some of these things is zeroing out,

1031
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:15,953
directed energy for MDA?

1032
00:47:20,370 --> 00:47:24,480
- Directed energy is important
to us across the department.

1033
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,010
The laser scaling initiative at MDA,

1034
00:47:28,010 --> 00:47:32,383
again, I get back to
the issue of priorities.

1035
00:47:33,260 --> 00:47:36,640
The laser scaling program was
one of my personal missions

1036
00:47:38,617 --> 00:47:41,160
that I wanted to prosecute.

1037
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,650
However, we have limited funds

1038
00:47:44,650 --> 00:47:47,770
and many claims on those funds

1039
00:47:47,770 --> 00:47:50,470
and choices have to be made,

1040
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:54,610
and that is a program of significant size

1041
00:47:55,610 --> 00:47:58,990
that could be used to
supply funds for other areas

1042
00:47:58,990 --> 00:48:00,970
and is definitely longer-term.

1043
00:48:00,970 --> 00:48:03,760
It is not going to put a
weapon in the field next year

1044
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:04,793
or the year after,

1045
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:07,553
so we cut it.

1046
00:48:10,210 --> 00:48:15,033
With regard to space sensors given to SDA,

1047
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:19,440
MDA is still developing

1048
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:22,450
the requirements for the space sensors

1049
00:48:22,450 --> 00:48:25,290
that we need for the low
altitude constellation,

1050
00:48:25,290 --> 00:48:29,060
and we'll be developing those so,

1051
00:48:29,060 --> 00:48:30,930
however, the overall architecture

1052
00:48:30,930 --> 00:48:35,450
is under the direction of
the Space Development Agency

1053
00:48:35,450 --> 00:48:40,450
and the sensors have to blend
into a larger architecture.

1054
00:48:40,860 --> 00:48:43,610
So I think that is the right move,

1055
00:48:43,610 --> 00:48:47,980
but MDA is not doing one bit less work

1056
00:48:47,980 --> 00:48:50,963
than had been planned to do previously.

1057
00:48:53,930 --> 00:48:56,193
I misremember your third question, sir.

1058
00:48:57,570 --> 00:48:59,050
Well, why don't we just move on

1059
00:48:59,050 --> 00:49:01,410
'cause jurisdictional
issues are less important

1060
00:49:01,410 --> 00:49:04,350
than over funding--
- Oh, you did mention RKV.

1061
00:49:04,350 --> 00:49:06,620
If you would like me to stand
down, I will, or I can answer.

1062
00:49:06,620 --> 00:49:10,140
- Well, I think we've all understood that,

1063
00:49:10,140 --> 00:49:12,470
although it's my understanding
that JROC, yesterday,

1064
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:14,840
either shortened the acquisition period,

1065
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:16,520
by two years, or it didn't at all.

1066
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:17,820
I've heard two different versions

1067
00:49:17,820 --> 00:49:20,257
from two different attendees, so--

1068
00:49:22,514 --> 00:49:23,347
- Well, I was I was there

1069
00:49:23,347 --> 00:49:26,630
and I would say that neither
of those is true, so--

1070
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:28,523
- Well, what is true, nine years?

1071
00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:32,540
- The government estimate

1072
00:49:32,540 --> 00:49:35,410
for the time to complete the deployment

1073
00:49:35,410 --> 00:49:37,690
of the next generation interceptor

1074
00:49:37,690 --> 00:49:40,010
is about a 10-year program.

1075
00:49:40,010 --> 00:49:43,330
That estimate was put together
at a 75% confidence level,

1076
00:49:43,330 --> 00:49:46,120
so that I could have some surety

1077
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,820
that we were not over-promising
and under-delivering.

1078
00:49:49,820 --> 00:49:53,650
We believe based on RFIs received
back from the contractors

1079
00:49:53,650 --> 00:49:58,580
that some significant shortening
of that period is possible

1080
00:49:58,580 --> 00:50:03,240
and when we have responses
to our requests for proposal,

1081
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:04,550
that are about to be released,

1082
00:50:04,550 --> 00:50:08,880
we will be happy to come
and share those with you.

1083
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,520
But in replanning this program,

1084
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,960
which we canceled because
it was failing technically,

1085
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,230
in replanning the program,
I did not want to give you

1086
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,750
a buy-in estimate, if you will,

1087
00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:23,330
of something that a few years from now

1088
00:50:23,330 --> 00:50:24,400
you would be looking at it

1089
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,140
and saying well, Dr. Griffin's
promises didn't come true.

1090
00:50:27,140 --> 00:50:29,690
I didn't want to be making
those kinds of promises.

1091
00:50:30,550 --> 00:50:32,050
- These are the same contractors

1092
00:50:32,050 --> 00:50:34,530
who failed to deliver us a space vehicle

1093
00:50:34,530 --> 00:50:35,793
that could go to space.

1094
00:50:37,395 --> 00:50:38,228
- No, sir.

1095
00:50:38,228 --> 00:50:40,830
One of the contractors
who will be proposing

1096
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,780
will be the prior contractor,

1097
00:50:45,780 --> 00:50:47,810
but there are three other contractors

1098
00:50:47,810 --> 00:50:52,170
in the competitive procurement
phase, for a total of four,

1099
00:50:52,170 --> 00:50:55,810
that we will be evaluating proposals from.

1100
00:50:55,810 --> 00:50:57,520
- Okay, I see my time is expired.

1101
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,120
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1102
00:50:59,120 --> 00:50:59,953
- Thank you Mr. Cooper,

1103
00:50:59,953 --> 00:51:00,786
Mr. Bacon is now recognized.

1104
00:51:00,786 --> 00:51:02,880
Before we go to Mr. Bacon,

1105
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,210
today is the the roll out

1106
00:51:05,210 --> 00:51:07,350
of the cyber solarium commission report,

1107
00:51:07,350 --> 00:51:11,053
of which I'm one of the
four members of Congress,

1108
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:14,850
we are the executive branch participation

1109
00:51:14,850 --> 00:51:17,780
as well as legislative and private-sector.

1110
00:51:17,780 --> 00:51:19,430
We're doing the roll out today

1111
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:21,530
and I'm departing for
that event right now.

1112
00:51:21,530 --> 00:51:23,500
Mr. Cooper is going to take over

1113
00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:26,680
chairing the rest of the hearing,

1114
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,990
but I thank the witnesses for
their testimony here today,

1115
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:33,150
and look forward to
following up on these issues.

1116
00:51:33,150 --> 00:51:36,070
So with that, again, Mr.
Bacon is now recognized.

1117
00:51:36,070 --> 00:51:37,300
- Thank you Mr. Chair,

1118
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:38,890
and thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

1119
00:51:38,890 --> 00:51:39,723
I just have a question

1120
00:51:39,723 --> 00:51:42,570
on the university
affiliated research centers.

1121
00:51:42,570 --> 00:51:44,680
As a Representative of Nebraska,

1122
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,630
I stood at the doorstep of US Stratcom,

1123
00:51:47,660 --> 00:51:50,070
and the National Strategic
Research Institute

1124
00:51:50,070 --> 00:51:51,480
at the University of Nebraska,

1125
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,460
dedicated to combating
weapons of mass destruction.

1126
00:51:54,460 --> 00:51:56,370
It's the only university
affiliated research center

1127
00:51:56,370 --> 00:51:57,990
sponsored by combatant command

1128
00:51:59,030 --> 00:52:01,910
which has engaged over
40 department sponsors

1129
00:52:01,910 --> 00:52:04,170
and research valued over
160 million dollars.

1130
00:52:04,170 --> 00:52:07,960
So my question is how are
the entities you represent

1131
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,420
investing in academic partners

1132
00:52:09,420 --> 00:52:11,020
to support mission requirements,

1133
00:52:11,020 --> 00:52:14,470
and utilize the dedicated
research and engineering expertise

1134
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:16,440
ready to support the
Department of Defense?

1135
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:17,273
Thank you.

1136
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,143
- Well, university affiliated
research centers, U-A-R-Cs,

1137
00:52:28,984 --> 00:52:33,984
UARCs, are among our go-to establishments

1138
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:37,420
for when we have

1139
00:52:39,770 --> 00:52:43,500
technical questions, technical
design, technical development

1140
00:52:43,500 --> 00:52:48,030
for cutting-edge projects

1141
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,023
that are not something
industry can supply, and,

1142
00:52:55,210 --> 00:52:56,380
end of sentence.

1143
00:52:56,380 --> 00:52:58,500
So we used them a lot.

1144
00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:00,360
The largest of those UARCs

1145
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,230
is the Johns Hopkins
Applied Physics Laboratory,

1146
00:53:03,230 --> 00:53:05,340
up the road here in Maryland,

1147
00:53:05,340 --> 00:53:08,300
and then we have smaller
UARCs throughout the country.

1148
00:53:08,300 --> 00:53:11,793
They are well and fully utilized, sir.

1149
00:53:13,370 --> 00:53:15,420
- Another one in Nebraska
who loves what it's doing

1150
00:53:15,420 --> 00:53:18,290
was Stratcom, and I think
they're now working with Socom.

1151
00:53:18,290 --> 00:53:19,980
Gentlemen, anything else?

1152
00:53:19,980 --> 00:53:21,330
- Sir, at lest for the
Department of the Navy,

1153
00:53:21,330 --> 00:53:22,170
they're vital.

1154
00:53:22,170 --> 00:53:24,870
Johns Hopkins being one
of many, Penn State,

1155
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:27,900
I mean they are there an integrated part

1156
00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:30,260
of our R&D establishment

1157
00:53:30,260 --> 00:53:33,010
and we could not complete
the mission without them.

1158
00:53:33,010 --> 00:53:35,210
- Sir, for the Department
of the Air Force,

1159
00:53:35,210 --> 00:53:37,780
they're critical, and
their role is changing

1160
00:53:37,780 --> 00:53:40,640
now that we live in a
world of global tech.

1161
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,670
So we love initiatives, we're
working with universities

1162
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:45,930
like our AI accelerator at MIT

1163
00:53:45,930 --> 00:53:47,730
was a big win for us last year,

1164
00:53:47,730 --> 00:53:50,950
having world leading researchers
at the Cecil Institute

1165
00:53:50,950 --> 00:53:53,150
working on problems of military import.

1166
00:53:53,150 --> 00:53:54,680
But when we need to transition

1167
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:56,350
that technology into the military,

1168
00:53:56,350 --> 00:53:58,500
we need people understand our programs,

1169
00:53:58,500 --> 00:53:59,620
that have clearances,

1170
00:53:59,620 --> 00:54:01,790
and have the technical
chops to the other guide us

1171
00:54:01,790 --> 00:54:04,600
between the scientists
and the program managers.

1172
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:06,592
I think they're going
to be extremely vital

1173
00:54:06,592 --> 00:54:09,130
to help us bridge between
commercial innovators

1174
00:54:09,130 --> 00:54:10,180
and the department,

1175
00:54:10,180 --> 00:54:12,380
just like they have it in times past

1176
00:54:12,380 --> 00:54:14,530
while continuing their
defense unique role.

1177
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,250
- Sir, the Army has three UARCs,

1178
00:54:19,250 --> 00:54:22,770
one is the Institute for
Collaborative Biotechnologies,

1179
00:54:22,770 --> 00:54:24,490
focused on biotechnology

1180
00:54:24,490 --> 00:54:28,740
for anything from
consideration of disease issues

1181
00:54:28,740 --> 00:54:33,740
to using biomaterials to
create electronic devices

1182
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:35,840
and material structures.

1183
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,670
That's at the University of Santa Barbara.

1184
00:54:38,670 --> 00:54:40,730
We have the Institute for
Soldier Nanotechnology,

1185
00:54:40,730 --> 00:54:43,080
the one I mentioned up at MIT

1186
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,850
where we do a great deal
of technology development

1187
00:54:45,850 --> 00:54:49,930
for anything from fabrics and clothing,

1188
00:54:49,930 --> 00:54:51,980
which sounds not very sexy,

1189
00:54:51,980 --> 00:54:55,270
but when you think about
what Under Armor does

1190
00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:57,990
and how much money they made
for some of their clothes,

1191
00:54:57,990 --> 00:55:01,411
apparently it's pretty
interesting technology.

1192
00:55:01,411 --> 00:55:03,860
And then we have the Institute
for Creative Technology

1193
00:55:03,860 --> 00:55:05,273
which focuses on,

1194
00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:11,790
it leverages the of the
entertainment industry

1195
00:55:11,950 --> 00:55:13,380
and the technologies there

1196
00:55:13,380 --> 00:55:18,380
to help us with training
in artificial environments.

1197
00:55:18,402 --> 00:55:21,350
Each of those places that we work

1198
00:55:21,350 --> 00:55:24,380
also have a related Army laboratory,

1199
00:55:24,380 --> 00:55:26,920
so that we make sure
we have a relationship

1200
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,380
that can bring the technology out of those

1201
00:55:29,380 --> 00:55:31,370
into the Army when appropriate

1202
00:55:31,370 --> 00:55:34,393
or bring problems from the Army into them.

1203
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:36,367
- A follow up question.

1204
00:55:36,367 --> 00:55:40,897
I want to ask Nuclear C3 or NC3.

1205
00:55:42,100 --> 00:55:44,040
Most of that technology is 1970s,

1206
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:45,830
although we do have the
new Stratcom building,

1207
00:55:45,830 --> 00:55:49,170
is there an opportunity here
with the universities or UARCs

1208
00:55:49,170 --> 00:55:52,350
to fair where we're gonna go
with the next level on NC3?

1209
00:55:52,350 --> 00:55:53,900
I don't know, it's maybe more
of an Air Force question,

1210
00:55:53,900 --> 00:55:56,337
I guess, but it could
be Navy too, thank you.

1211
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,270
- Yes, Congressman, we
have a large portion

1212
00:55:59,270 --> 00:56:00,710
of the NC3 portfolio,

1213
00:56:00,710 --> 00:56:03,700
and absolutely, there are lot
of commercial technologies

1214
00:56:03,700 --> 00:56:05,487
that we can bring to bear for NC3

1215
00:56:05,487 --> 00:56:09,480
and General Hyten, our Vice
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs,

1216
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,210
really brings a great perspective in,

1217
00:56:11,210 --> 00:56:12,420
coming in from Stratcom,

1218
00:56:12,420 --> 00:56:15,300
that having the one trusted,

1219
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:17,040
perfectly secure way of communicating

1220
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:18,270
is probably not our future.

1221
00:56:18,270 --> 00:56:20,610
We're going to need to
have multiple conduits,

1222
00:56:20,610 --> 00:56:22,040
use statistics as our ally,

1223
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,570
and a lot of commercial
technology can aid that.

1224
00:56:24,570 --> 00:56:26,120
But similar to the previous point,

1225
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:27,390
we can work with commercial innovators,

1226
00:56:27,390 --> 00:56:29,920
but when we've got to get down
to classified applications,

1227
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:31,370
we need trusted insiders,

1228
00:56:31,370 --> 00:56:33,950
and that's what UARCs and FFRCs can do.

1229
00:56:33,950 --> 00:56:36,590
In the case of MIT, we
have Lincoln Laboratory,

1230
00:56:36,590 --> 00:56:39,180
and it's a federally-funded
research and development center

1231
00:56:39,180 --> 00:56:41,820
sitting up at Hanscom Air Force Base

1232
00:56:41,820 --> 00:56:44,740
that can work closely with
campus to take technology out of,

1233
00:56:44,740 --> 00:56:47,230
you know, out of that
university into the Air Force.

1234
00:56:47,230 --> 00:56:49,653
The same model will work
well with companies.

1235
00:56:52,330 --> 00:56:53,793
- [Cooper] Thank you, Miss Trahan.

1236
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:56,820
- Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1237
00:56:56,820 --> 00:56:59,763
I'm so happy that you
brought up MIT Lincoln Labs

1238
00:56:59,763 --> 00:57:01,110
in the heart of my district.

1239
00:57:01,110 --> 00:57:02,630
Thank you for that.

1240
00:57:02,630 --> 00:57:05,120
This question is actually
for you, Dr. Roper,

1241
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,300
the SBIR program,

1242
00:57:07,300 --> 00:57:10,250
the Small Business
Innovation Research program

1243
00:57:10,250 --> 00:57:13,070
is one of the most successful
and effective programs

1244
00:57:13,070 --> 00:57:16,093
that is authorized by Congress.

1245
00:57:16,093 --> 00:57:19,020
I was surprised, and
frankly a bit concerned,

1246
00:57:19,020 --> 00:57:21,170
when I learned that the
Air Force innovation unit

1247
00:57:21,170 --> 00:57:23,840
is attempting to unilaterally implement

1248
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,340
drastic changes to that program.

1249
00:57:26,340 --> 00:57:30,070
Many of those changes to
diverge from the intent

1250
00:57:30,070 --> 00:57:33,240
of the SBIR law, and I know,

1251
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:34,610
well, I understand that you're interested

1252
00:57:34,610 --> 00:57:37,058
in transforming the Air
Force's acquisition system

1253
00:57:37,058 --> 00:57:40,160
in order to appeal to the startup world.

1254
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,930
Instead of having companies
submit Phase I proposals

1255
00:57:42,930 --> 00:57:45,570
to technical topics
written by the Air Force

1256
00:57:45,570 --> 00:57:46,870
subject matter expert,

1257
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:49,300
the Air Force now has pitch days

1258
00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:51,290
where literally hundreds of companies

1259
00:57:51,290 --> 00:57:54,190
are awarded Phase I SBIR grants

1260
00:57:54,190 --> 00:57:57,130
that are not in response
to a specific topic,

1261
00:57:57,130 --> 00:57:59,990
but instead, give each small
business initial funding

1262
00:57:59,990 --> 00:58:03,060
and three months to form
a feasibility study,

1263
00:58:03,060 --> 00:58:05,963
and customer discovery of the technology.

1264
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,407
I share your goal of making the Air Force

1265
00:58:09,407 --> 00:58:11,840
and the entire DOD more adept

1266
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:13,470
at attracting the best innovation

1267
00:58:13,470 --> 00:58:14,820
from the small business community,

1268
00:58:14,820 --> 00:58:17,720
but I do have concerns about the integrity

1269
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:20,000
of the SBIR program.

1270
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:21,830
And of course, if the Air Force

1271
00:58:21,830 --> 00:58:24,370
wants to propose a new grant program,

1272
00:58:24,370 --> 00:58:27,570
we would be happy to
consider supporting that.

1273
00:58:27,570 --> 00:58:30,070
Can you just speak to these changes

1274
00:58:30,070 --> 00:58:32,603
as well as the goals of these changes?

1275
00:58:34,010 --> 00:58:35,640
- Yes, Congresswoman, it's a topic

1276
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:37,020
I am truly passionate about.

1277
00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:38,530
I'll just say, I know I won't be able

1278
00:58:38,530 --> 00:58:39,470
to answer all of your questions here,

1279
00:58:39,470 --> 00:58:40,640
I'll be happy to come chat with you

1280
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,710
or any other members of the committee.

1281
00:58:42,710 --> 00:58:45,070
In a nutshell, the SBIR
is an amazing program.

1282
00:58:45,070 --> 00:58:46,940
It's amazing that we have this authority

1283
00:58:46,940 --> 00:58:49,280
to go work with early-stage companies

1284
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:50,310
and coming into the Air Force,

1285
00:58:50,310 --> 00:58:51,370
the thing that was missing

1286
00:58:51,370 --> 00:58:53,860
was the connection to
the acquisition system.

1287
00:58:53,860 --> 00:58:56,510
So companies with good technology

1288
00:58:56,510 --> 00:58:59,310
trying to find their
customer, their mission,

1289
00:58:59,310 --> 00:59:02,140
and not having the program
dollars to transition them.

1290
00:59:02,140 --> 00:59:03,740
The other limiting factor we had

1291
00:59:03,740 --> 00:59:05,720
is that are model didn't work really well

1292
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:06,910
with dual use companies,

1293
00:59:06,910 --> 00:59:08,610
companies that are working
on tech that could apply

1294
00:59:08,610 --> 00:59:09,880
to both the military mission

1295
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,750
as well as the commercial mission.

1296
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:15,090
So with 80% of the
nation's R&D in commercial,

1297
00:59:15,090 --> 00:59:16,640
it's a huge risk to the country

1298
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,960
if we can't work with that 80%.

1299
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:20,430
So what we what we tried to do

1300
00:59:20,430 --> 00:59:22,900
with the big overhaul of SBIR

1301
00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:25,370
is bring in program
dollars for transition,

1302
00:59:25,370 --> 00:59:28,268
have a model that works with
those dual-use companies

1303
00:59:28,268 --> 00:59:32,440
who won't know how to propose
to a specific DOD topic,

1304
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,580
but they can propose to an open topic

1305
00:59:34,580 --> 00:59:36,560
which is bring us interesting technology

1306
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:38,950
and then let us help
work on mission with you.

1307
00:59:38,950 --> 00:59:40,430
In future, we have to do both,

1308
00:59:40,430 --> 00:59:43,240
we have to keep the best
of what worked in the past

1309
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:44,740
for defense-focused companies,

1310
00:59:44,740 --> 00:59:47,040
allow them to work without having to work

1311
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:48,870
through commercialization channels,

1312
00:59:48,870 --> 00:59:50,180
but we need a new process

1313
00:59:50,180 --> 00:59:51,960
that allows commercial companies in.

1314
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,330
What I think we've
succeeded on is the latter,

1315
00:59:54,330 --> 00:59:57,170
it's getting most of the hype
and buzz because it's new,

1316
00:59:57,170 --> 00:59:59,630
and it's augmenting
the system in the past,

1317
00:59:59,630 --> 01:00:01,500
but our goal is to keep the best of both

1318
01:00:01,500 --> 01:00:03,140
going into this year, ma'am.

1319
01:00:03,140 --> 01:00:04,470
- Great, thank you for that.

1320
01:00:04,470 --> 01:00:06,520
And so in terms of customer discovery,

1321
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:08,550
can you just speak to how,

1322
01:00:08,550 --> 01:00:10,560
you know, normally those
were written on spec

1323
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,023
for something specific,

1324
01:00:13,950 --> 01:00:17,410
and now customer discovery,
I understand that

1325
01:00:17,410 --> 01:00:19,330
in the startup world, it's
kind of where I came from,

1326
01:00:19,330 --> 01:00:22,060
but translate that to me in your world.

1327
01:00:22,060 --> 01:00:23,850
- Yes, ma'am, so we have those

1328
01:00:23,850 --> 01:00:25,820
specific solicitations you've referenced,

1329
01:00:25,820 --> 01:00:28,370
where we say we need a thing
that flies this far, this fast,

1330
01:00:28,370 --> 01:00:29,970
and a company that knows defense

1331
01:00:29,970 --> 01:00:31,810
knows how to propose to that.

1332
01:00:31,810 --> 01:00:34,010
A company with amazing technology

1333
01:00:34,010 --> 01:00:35,790
won't have the people on staff

1334
01:00:35,790 --> 01:00:36,637
that understand our missions.

1335
01:00:36,637 --> 01:00:39,040
And so they didn't know that
there's a military application,

1336
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,230
but they don't know where it is.

1337
01:00:41,230 --> 01:00:45,070
By having very small
entry-level awards, around 50k,

1338
01:00:45,070 --> 01:00:47,550
it allows the company to
bring their technology,

1339
01:00:47,550 --> 01:00:50,210
use that money to apply
it to a military mission

1340
01:00:50,210 --> 01:00:52,280
that we help them find,

1341
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:54,100
so that when they are talking

1342
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:56,230
to that customer at a Phase II pitch day,

1343
01:00:56,230 --> 01:00:58,340
so you've got the war fighter,
the acquisition person,

1344
01:00:58,340 --> 01:01:00,040
the technologist across the table,

1345
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,110
and they're saying what it
can do, they're informed,

1346
01:01:03,110 --> 01:01:04,210
and they don't have to have

1347
01:01:04,210 --> 01:01:06,700
that DOD experience to get there.

1348
01:01:06,700 --> 01:01:08,640
Last year, we did 1000,

1349
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:10,113
we brought more money into SBIR

1350
01:01:10,113 --> 01:01:12,880
than has ever been in before
because of the program dollars

1351
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:14,730
and private dollars that came in.

1352
01:01:14,730 --> 01:01:17,870
We did over 1000 contracts, 700 companies,

1353
01:01:17,870 --> 01:01:19,860
350 new to the government,

1354
01:01:19,860 --> 01:01:20,730
and most of them saying

1355
01:01:20,730 --> 01:01:22,640
they had never planned to work with us.

1356
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,790
So we're not willing to
do away with the old,

1357
01:01:24,790 --> 01:01:27,010
but if that trend doesn't
continue so that companies say

1358
01:01:27,010 --> 01:01:28,530
I'm going to go work with the Air Force

1359
01:01:28,530 --> 01:01:30,260
'cause it's easy to innovate with them,

1360
01:01:30,260 --> 01:01:31,590
we won't keep up the China.

1361
01:01:31,590 --> 01:01:33,500
Remember, China has a
nationalized industry base,

1362
01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:36,630
so this is a model to try
to mitigate that risk.

1363
01:01:36,630 --> 01:01:38,373
- Great, thank you, I yield back.

1364
01:01:39,250 --> 01:01:40,083
- [Cooper] Thank you.

1365
01:01:40,083 --> 01:01:41,450
Mr. Scott.

1366
01:01:41,450 --> 01:01:42,590
- Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1367
01:01:42,590 --> 01:01:43,970
Dr. Roper, last time I saw you

1368
01:01:43,970 --> 01:01:47,000
was at the Advanced
Technology and Training Center

1369
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,710
in Warner Robins, just outside
of Robins Air Force Base,

1370
01:01:51,710 --> 01:01:53,310
and we've talked about a lot of

1371
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:58,310
advanced weapon systems today.

1372
01:01:58,310 --> 01:02:01,440
Could you speak to how the Air Force

1373
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,320
is using the Advanced
Technology and Training Center

1374
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,130
to improve depot maintenance

1375
01:02:07,130 --> 01:02:09,950
with regard to the more
traditional weapon systems,

1376
01:02:09,950 --> 01:02:13,760
C-130s and everything that we use today?

1377
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,110
- Yes, sir, another topic
I'm very passionate about.

1378
01:02:16,110 --> 01:02:18,210
I mean, 70% of our
money is in sustainment,

1379
01:02:18,210 --> 01:02:19,440
so just from a business case,

1380
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:20,820
we should be putting more technology

1381
01:02:20,820 --> 01:02:22,920
to lower the cost of sustainment.

1382
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:24,660
And coming into this job early on,

1383
01:02:24,660 --> 01:02:26,230
I didn't know a ton about sustainment,

1384
01:02:26,230 --> 01:02:28,350
all of my programs had
always been development,

1385
01:02:28,350 --> 01:02:30,090
so it's an amazing enterprise, sir.

1386
01:02:30,090 --> 01:02:33,100
The depots are true national assets,

1387
01:02:33,100 --> 01:02:35,390
but not getting a lot of the
technology from the Air Force.

1388
01:02:35,390 --> 01:02:36,300
So we had a couple of things,

1389
01:02:36,300 --> 01:02:38,010
we stood up the Rapid Sustainment Office

1390
01:02:38,010 --> 01:02:39,680
to help transition technology

1391
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:41,700
from the research lab, from industry,

1392
01:02:41,700 --> 01:02:43,670
into the depots and fly lines,

1393
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:45,200
and they've done a great job

1394
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,150
getting predictive
maintenance operational,

1395
01:02:47,150 --> 01:02:48,247
3D printing operational,

1396
01:02:48,247 --> 01:02:50,950
and to your point, sir,
these training centers.

1397
01:02:50,950 --> 01:02:52,010
The point of training centers

1398
01:02:52,010 --> 01:02:54,940
is not to dump technology on
the sustainment enterprise

1399
01:02:54,940 --> 01:02:56,480
where they don't know how to use it.

1400
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,610
So walking through, early on,

1401
01:02:58,610 --> 01:03:00,840
there was a laser in
the corner of the depot,

1402
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:02,780
in one of them, I can't
remember which one,

1403
01:03:02,780 --> 01:03:04,974
that could strip paint off of tools

1404
01:03:04,974 --> 01:03:06,400
that normally takes hours to do,

1405
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:07,410
but no one was using it,

1406
01:03:07,410 --> 01:03:09,210
simply because training wasn't there,

1407
01:03:09,210 --> 01:03:10,740
people were afraid to.

1408
01:03:10,740 --> 01:03:13,740
This is a friendly off-prem facility

1409
01:03:13,740 --> 01:03:15,500
with some of the world's
leading 3D printing

1410
01:03:15,500 --> 01:03:17,660
and other technologies like cold spray,

1411
01:03:17,660 --> 01:03:19,970
where we help the maintainers
understand how to use it,

1412
01:03:19,970 --> 01:03:21,530
and the results have been phenomenal,

1413
01:03:21,530 --> 01:03:22,890
and I definitely enjoyed

1414
01:03:22,890 --> 01:03:24,410
doing the ribbon-cutting with you, sir.

1415
01:03:24,410 --> 01:03:26,340
- It's a great partnership,

1416
01:03:26,340 --> 01:03:28,870
and want to focus on one
of the points you made,

1417
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:32,450
70% of the budget is sustainment,

1418
01:03:32,450 --> 01:03:36,240
and one of the challenges has
been with the older systems,

1419
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,680
sometimes the suppliers
don't have the parts

1420
01:03:39,530 --> 01:03:40,630
that are available,

1421
01:03:40,630 --> 01:03:44,520
and so a lot of concern
about contracting on systems

1422
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:46,030
as we go forward.

1423
01:03:46,030 --> 01:03:48,520
3D printing is there,

1424
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:51,053
as we get into future
procurement contracts,

1425
01:03:53,090 --> 01:03:57,990
have the departments adopted
any type of standard clause

1426
01:03:57,990 --> 01:04:01,550
that the military would be entitled

1427
01:04:01,550 --> 01:04:04,313
to standardized printable designs?

1428
01:04:08,500 --> 01:04:11,420
- I can tell you what the Army has done.

1429
01:04:11,420 --> 01:04:16,020
So when you're waiting to be confirmed,

1430
01:04:16,020 --> 01:04:17,080
you may sit there a while,

1431
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:19,340
so you make a list of things
that you think are important.

1432
01:04:19,340 --> 01:04:21,290
One of the ones, having IP myself,

1433
01:04:21,290 --> 01:04:25,570
was to develop an IP
policy that meant something

1434
01:04:25,570 --> 01:04:28,080
as opposed to what I had
experienced when I was in the Army.

1435
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,330
So we developed an IP
policy which gives equity

1436
01:04:31,330 --> 01:04:34,930
to both the developer on the outside,

1437
01:04:34,930 --> 01:04:37,380
make sure you got proper
licensing coming in,

1438
01:04:37,380 --> 01:04:38,970
and vice versa.

1439
01:04:38,970 --> 01:04:40,290
If the government paid for it,

1440
01:04:40,290 --> 01:04:41,650
the government should not only own it,

1441
01:04:41,650 --> 01:04:44,450
which I found is a big problem we have,

1442
01:04:44,450 --> 01:04:46,260
but they should get it delivered,

1443
01:04:46,260 --> 01:04:48,720
which I was always expected
to do on the outside.

1444
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,580
We have a lot of technology we paid for,

1445
01:04:51,580 --> 01:04:53,180
we don't have in our possession.

1446
01:04:54,182 --> 01:04:56,140
So what we have done

1447
01:04:56,140 --> 01:04:59,410
is made a specific concerted effort,

1448
01:04:59,410 --> 01:05:02,630
I'm trying to transition away
from Level three drawings

1449
01:05:02,630 --> 01:05:04,980
which give me a stack of drawings

1450
01:05:04,980 --> 01:05:06,693
to digital models.

1451
01:05:07,949 --> 01:05:11,390
And that ties into advanced manufacturing,

1452
01:05:11,390 --> 01:05:13,430
we call it advanced as opposed to additive

1453
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:15,520
because they're subtractive,
there's conformal,

1454
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:17,250
there's a number of other methods

1455
01:05:17,250 --> 01:05:19,110
as well we're trying to apply,

1456
01:05:19,110 --> 01:05:22,210
and being able to have
all that data put together

1457
01:05:22,210 --> 01:05:23,210
in a digital thread

1458
01:05:23,210 --> 01:05:24,390
that's available all the way out

1459
01:05:24,390 --> 01:05:26,180
to the front edge of the battle space.

1460
01:05:26,180 --> 01:05:27,290
- I appreciate that comment,

1461
01:05:27,290 --> 01:05:29,090
that's one of my primary concerns.

1462
01:05:29,090 --> 01:05:30,653
I believe in partnerships,

1463
01:05:31,750 --> 01:05:32,720
especially with the

1464
01:05:36,660 --> 01:05:38,770
more advanced institutions

1465
01:05:38,770 --> 01:05:40,680
that have been mentioned earlier,

1466
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:43,523
but in the end, if we pay
to develop the system,

1467
01:05:44,390 --> 01:05:46,540
we shouldn't have to
pay to use the system.

1468
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,220
There's got to be a square deal there.

1469
01:05:49,220 --> 01:05:51,280
One of the questions I do have

1470
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,180
as we talk about the
move from the development

1471
01:05:53,180 --> 01:05:55,490
into the actual use of it,

1472
01:05:55,490 --> 01:05:58,180
where we get into a more
classified scenario,

1473
01:05:58,180 --> 01:06:03,140
is if you have an
extremely valuable person

1474
01:06:03,140 --> 01:06:04,450
that is either in the private sector

1475
01:06:04,450 --> 01:06:07,400
or currently working
at one of the colleges,

1476
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:11,833
and we want to transition them
into one of the departments,

1477
01:06:12,790 --> 01:06:16,500
are you limited to the
GS schedule to transition

1478
01:06:18,510 --> 01:06:21,020
people in when they can make

1479
01:06:22,460 --> 01:06:24,610
two, three, four, 10 times more

1480
01:06:24,610 --> 01:06:25,860
if they stay in the private sector?

1481
01:06:25,860 --> 01:06:27,847
- Yes, sir, this committee has given us,

1482
01:06:27,847 --> 01:06:30,730
and the NDA has given
us lots of authorities,

1483
01:06:30,730 --> 01:06:33,910
there's a variety of them we've used,

1484
01:06:33,910 --> 01:06:35,110
and depending on the case,

1485
01:06:35,110 --> 01:06:36,940
so I think the authorities are there,

1486
01:06:36,940 --> 01:06:40,480
it's not yet common practice
to do that at scale,

1487
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:41,780
I would say across the departments,

1488
01:06:41,780 --> 01:06:44,100
so we're kind of learning from each other.

1489
01:06:44,100 --> 01:06:47,330
We've taken what we
call the 1101 authority,

1490
01:06:47,330 --> 01:06:50,500
150% of SES pay to max that out,

1491
01:06:50,500 --> 01:06:52,700
that's been a great authority to bring in

1492
01:06:52,700 --> 01:06:55,010
world's experts for us to
help on different things.

1493
01:06:55,010 --> 01:06:58,460
So I think the issue is
less needing authorities,

1494
01:06:58,460 --> 01:07:00,450
we just need to get them into practice.

1495
01:07:00,450 --> 01:07:03,600
- But you're capped at
150% of the GS schedule.

1496
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:04,433
- Yes, sir.

1497
01:07:04,433 --> 01:07:06,030
- And there's also the
enhanced pay authority

1498
01:07:06,030 --> 01:07:08,310
which has been wonderful
for the Air Force.

1499
01:07:08,310 --> 01:07:11,950
It allows us to go up
to 318,000, I believe.

1500
01:07:11,950 --> 01:07:14,540
It's letting us get great experts

1501
01:07:14,540 --> 01:07:16,630
that wouldn't come into
the government otherwise.

1502
01:07:16,630 --> 01:07:18,370
I believe we've done seven hires,

1503
01:07:18,370 --> 01:07:21,620
we're able to do 10 across the
department of the Air Force.

1504
01:07:21,620 --> 01:07:23,717
The authority expires
next year, I believe,

1505
01:07:23,717 --> 01:07:25,180
and I would certainly ask

1506
01:07:25,180 --> 01:07:27,060
for Congress to consider extending it.

1507
01:07:27,060 --> 01:07:29,627
- [Scott] Okay, thank you,
thank for your service.

1508
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:31,470
- [Cooper] Thank you.

1509
01:07:31,470 --> 01:07:32,303
Miss Houlahan.

1510
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:36,760
- Thank you, gentlemen.

1511
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:38,310
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1512
01:07:38,310 --> 01:07:40,750
I don't know if you all
remember about a year ago

1513
01:07:40,750 --> 01:07:43,010
when I sat in this chair
as a brand new freshman,

1514
01:07:43,010 --> 01:07:44,740
I asked you a question

1515
01:07:44,740 --> 01:07:47,050
regarding what are we
doing to elevate women

1516
01:07:47,050 --> 01:07:48,610
and people of color in STEM,

1517
01:07:48,610 --> 01:07:50,840
and particularly in your organization?

1518
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,560
And I'm a proud alum of MIT,

1519
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:55,330
and I served at Hanscom Air Force Base,

1520
01:07:55,330 --> 01:07:57,970
so I have a lot in common
with all of you folks.

1521
01:07:57,970 --> 01:08:01,370
I also aspired when I was a
young girl to be Sally Ride,

1522
01:08:01,370 --> 01:08:04,800
but she said famously, you
can't be what you can't see.

1523
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,016
So I was really excited
to see that in section 229

1524
01:08:08,016 --> 01:08:09,160
of the NDAA we had the diversification

1525
01:08:11,332 --> 01:08:13,370
of research and engineering workforce

1526
01:08:13,370 --> 01:08:14,880
of the Department of Defense,

1527
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:17,500
and that was included,
thankfully, in the NDAA.

1528
01:08:17,500 --> 01:08:19,150
And I was wondering if you might be able

1529
01:08:19,150 --> 01:08:21,580
to give us an update
or an assessment on how

1530
01:08:21,580 --> 01:08:23,580
or if you've learned anything since

1531
01:08:23,580 --> 01:08:25,610
about who works within your ranks,

1532
01:08:25,610 --> 01:08:27,050
what your hiring practices are

1533
01:08:27,050 --> 01:08:30,120
to encourage diversity and
inclusion of more people

1534
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,260
and what you're doing
to attract more people

1535
01:08:32,260 --> 01:08:36,563
who are not traditional
STEM professionals?

1536
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:39,390
- Yes, ma'am, maybe I'll start here,

1537
01:08:39,390 --> 01:08:41,460
and again, I think great learning

1538
01:08:41,460 --> 01:08:43,490
going across the department,

1539
01:08:43,490 --> 01:08:45,780
and diversity in all its dimensions,

1540
01:08:45,780 --> 01:08:48,260
gender, race, how you think,
who you know, what your skills,

1541
01:08:48,260 --> 01:08:51,360
is our ultimate competitive advantage,

1542
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:53,260
and we've got to foster that.

1543
01:08:53,260 --> 01:08:56,650
Department of the Navy,
a lot of focus on STEM

1544
01:08:56,650 --> 01:09:00,070
and promoting from the
earliest onset programs,

1545
01:09:00,070 --> 01:09:02,750
we're at the high school intern level,

1546
01:09:02,750 --> 01:09:06,220
we have summer interns,
we have college interns,

1547
01:09:06,220 --> 01:09:08,320
we have Naval Academy has got programs,

1548
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:11,840
we watch the diversity
statistics in there.

1549
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:13,760
- But are you, in fact, watching them?

1550
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:16,580
- We are, so for the
summer hires last year,

1551
01:09:16,580 --> 01:09:21,559
we had 43% of female participation
at the high school level,

1552
01:09:21,559 --> 01:09:25,140
32% at the college level,

1553
01:09:25,140 --> 01:09:27,050
that's not obvious to
where we want to get to.

1554
01:09:27,050 --> 01:09:32,050
On the US Naval Academy
programs at about 60% of female,

1555
01:09:32,270 --> 01:09:33,730
if in that one dimension.

1556
01:09:33,730 --> 01:09:35,000
So we're watching it,

1557
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:38,220
and then working hard
within the department

1558
01:09:38,220 --> 01:09:41,430
to have the right workforce,
how we choose people,

1559
01:09:41,430 --> 01:09:44,420
how we promote them, what the
selection panels look like,

1560
01:09:44,420 --> 01:09:46,120
so everybody's got equal opportunity

1561
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:47,670
as they work their way
through this system.

1562
01:09:47,670 --> 01:09:49,150
- Is there anything that we can be doing

1563
01:09:49,150 --> 01:09:51,980
to be helpful in asking for
those metrics of measure

1564
01:09:51,980 --> 01:09:53,120
performance standards?

1565
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:54,640
I think one thing that I reflect on

1566
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:55,810
in my first year in Congress

1567
01:09:55,810 --> 01:09:58,650
was the ability to
recruit for the academies

1568
01:09:58,650 --> 01:10:00,500
and specifically with in my office,

1569
01:10:00,500 --> 01:10:01,930
trying to make sure that I understood

1570
01:10:01,930 --> 01:10:04,860
what of the 70 or so people who applied

1571
01:10:04,860 --> 01:10:06,200
what the diversity was there,

1572
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:07,800
and you know, kind of asking that question

1573
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:09,740
across the country, I
think would be a good one.

1574
01:10:09,740 --> 01:10:11,490
Is there anything else
that we can be doing

1575
01:10:11,490 --> 01:10:12,810
to be helpful in asking?

1576
01:10:12,810 --> 01:10:13,643
- I would say, I mean,

1577
01:10:13,643 --> 01:10:15,638
last year asking the question was helpful.

1578
01:10:15,638 --> 01:10:16,471
- [Houlahan] Good.

1579
01:10:16,471 --> 01:10:18,560
- And then continue and ask the question.

1580
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:20,550
I think when I look at the NDAA,

1581
01:10:20,550 --> 01:10:22,060
there's a broad set of authorities there,

1582
01:10:22,060 --> 01:10:24,300
so I don't know an
authority limitation yet

1583
01:10:24,300 --> 01:10:26,260
that I would highlight,

1584
01:10:26,260 --> 01:10:28,400
but we've got to focus on that

1585
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,520
as we go through the
expedited hiring authority,

1586
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:32,680
and some of the hiring authorities

1587
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:37,680
that let us pick the best
performer faster, also is a help.

1588
01:10:38,450 --> 01:10:40,060
That way, we can find the best,

1589
01:10:40,060 --> 01:10:42,330
and again, I would you
say we need to look at it

1590
01:10:42,330 --> 01:10:45,550
in all dimensions, gender, race, all,

1591
01:10:45,550 --> 01:10:48,290
'cause we need the diversity
if we're gonna compete and win.

1592
01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:49,710
- [Houlahan] Absolutely,
gentlemen, you have anything else?

1593
01:10:49,710 --> 01:10:50,717
- Yes, ma'am, I do.

1594
01:10:50,717 --> 01:10:53,120
And we really appreciate you
asking the question last year.

1595
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:54,970
If we're going to compete
against China long-term,

1596
01:10:54,970 --> 01:10:56,360
can't have any blind spots.

1597
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:58,610
You need people that see
the world all different ways

1598
01:10:58,610 --> 01:11:02,110
because the next Jobs or Gates or whoever

1599
01:11:02,110 --> 01:11:05,300
could could be that person
that's not coming into work force

1600
01:11:05,300 --> 01:11:06,890
if there's not an open door.

1601
01:11:06,890 --> 01:11:09,420
In addition to what
Secretary Geurts mentioned,

1602
01:11:09,420 --> 01:11:12,280
one thing that is helping us
surprisingly in the Air Force

1603
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:14,870
is the direct site higher authority,

1604
01:11:14,870 --> 01:11:17,520
'cause we're able to go out
and work with organizations,

1605
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:19,070
associations that are targeting

1606
01:11:19,070 --> 01:11:21,710
greater diversity in STEM fields,

1607
01:11:21,710 --> 01:11:23,810
and were able to use them as job fairs

1608
01:11:23,810 --> 01:11:26,300
or the direct hiring events.

1609
01:11:26,300 --> 01:11:27,700
For people that wouldn't think about

1610
01:11:27,700 --> 01:11:29,220
coming to the Air Force,
haven't been exposed,

1611
01:11:29,220 --> 01:11:30,380
don't have that background,

1612
01:11:30,380 --> 01:11:31,690
we're able to go out to them

1613
01:11:31,690 --> 01:11:35,620
and not use the federal hiring system

1614
01:11:35,620 --> 01:11:38,650
that I think is too opaque and not useful.

1615
01:11:38,650 --> 01:11:42,040
So we had 13% increase in
diversity hires last year.

1616
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,720
I think that's great,
can't be satisfied with it,

1617
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:47,550
but we're not as diverse of
a workforce as we need to be.

1618
01:11:47,550 --> 01:11:49,680
The direct site hire
authority is a great tool

1619
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:50,513
to help us get there.

1620
01:11:50,513 --> 01:11:51,360
- [Houlahan] Thank you.

1621
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:53,800
And other comments, gentlemen?

1622
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:56,520
- I would just say that we did go back

1623
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:58,880
and do a good survey of our workforce

1624
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:03,087
trying to make sure we had a
good feel for our diversity,

1625
01:12:03,087 --> 01:12:05,033
and the Army actually came out,

1626
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:08,700
the report I received was
that we're in good shape,

1627
01:12:08,700 --> 01:12:11,363
we're proportional or
above the percentages

1628
01:12:11,363 --> 01:12:13,470
that the population is in.

1629
01:12:13,470 --> 01:12:14,870
- Meaning you look like the population,

1630
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:15,930
the general population?

1631
01:12:15,930 --> 01:12:17,840
- Right, actually, we probably look

1632
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,440
a little bit more diverse
than the general population.

1633
01:12:20,440 --> 01:12:22,540
- And is that across all
kinds of career fields

1634
01:12:22,540 --> 01:12:23,720
or just specific career?

1635
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,950
I mean do you look at that
depth of kind of detail?

1636
01:12:26,950 --> 01:12:29,580
- Yeah, I didn't look beyond the depth

1637
01:12:29,580 --> 01:12:33,720
of the inside of the
ASOLT itself in general.

1638
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:36,740
I will say that I think
that there are programs,

1639
01:12:36,740 --> 01:12:38,580
we do have programs that do outreach

1640
01:12:39,482 --> 01:12:42,050
to HBCUs, MSIs, et cetera.

1641
01:12:42,050 --> 01:12:46,127
I think that we go out to 30,000,

1642
01:12:46,970 --> 01:12:49,940
we've seen 30,000 students a year

1643
01:12:49,940 --> 01:12:52,070
where we send professors

1644
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:54,930
or laboratory people out to schools,

1645
01:12:54,930 --> 01:12:56,800
do lecturers, meet people.

1646
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:59,860
I know that's a big motivator.

1647
01:12:59,860 --> 01:13:03,460
Just as you said, if I don't
know this is a possibility,

1648
01:13:03,460 --> 01:13:05,093
I don't pursue it, and--

1649
01:13:06,157 --> 01:13:07,840
- And I know that I've run out of time,

1650
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:09,570
and I'm so sorry for running over,

1651
01:13:09,570 --> 01:13:11,380
but I really would like to have

1652
01:13:11,380 --> 01:13:13,760
the opportunity to follow
up with you all on this

1653
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:16,860
because we're all a bunch
of engineers and geeks.

1654
01:13:16,860 --> 01:13:19,790
You know, performance means
that we have to measure it,

1655
01:13:19,790 --> 01:13:20,623
so I just want to make sure

1656
01:13:20,623 --> 01:13:23,290
that we genuinely have the
metrics and performance standards

1657
01:13:23,290 --> 01:13:24,380
that we're all looking towards

1658
01:13:24,380 --> 01:13:26,070
to make sure that we're making progress.

1659
01:13:26,070 --> 01:13:28,050
And I yield back, thank you.

1660
01:13:28,050 --> 01:13:28,913
- Mr. Waltz.

1661
01:13:31,290 --> 01:13:32,230
- Thank you Mr. Chairman.

1662
01:13:32,230 --> 01:13:34,863
I just wanted to echo my colleague,

1663
01:13:36,390 --> 01:13:38,037
Representative Houlahan's

1664
01:13:39,848 --> 01:13:42,630
encouragement and continue to work

1665
01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:43,877
on the issue of diversity,

1666
01:13:43,877 --> 01:13:46,360
and I certainly want to
thank all of my colleagues

1667
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:50,191
for including in the last NDAA

1668
01:13:50,191 --> 01:13:52,850
a study for the National
Academy of Science

1669
01:13:52,850 --> 01:13:57,070
on how we can better include HBCUs

1670
01:13:57,070 --> 01:13:58,770
and Minority-Serving Institutions

1671
01:13:58,770 --> 01:14:01,593
in our research and
development enterprise.

1672
01:14:04,170 --> 01:14:08,130
Dr. Griffin, I wanted to shift the some of

1673
01:14:08,130 --> 01:14:12,750
echoing my colleague the Ranking
Member Stefanik's questions

1674
01:14:12,750 --> 01:14:17,750
on talents, on how we handle
our technology protection.

1675
01:14:19,170 --> 01:14:22,130
I also sit on the Science
and Technology Committee,

1676
01:14:22,130 --> 01:14:25,260
and really wrestling with
how we balance the openness

1677
01:14:25,260 --> 01:14:29,560
that is one of the fundamental aspects

1678
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:33,330
of academia and our research
and development enterprise,

1679
01:14:33,330 --> 01:14:35,330
and I think it's one of the
things that's made it great,

1680
01:14:35,330 --> 01:14:37,210
but protect our IP.

1681
01:14:37,210 --> 01:14:38,863
And I have to be candid,

1682
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,910
I am not going to continue
supporting the funding

1683
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:47,420
of Beijing's research and development.

1684
01:14:47,420 --> 01:14:51,560
And I think we have to be honest and open,

1685
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:54,950
and really I think very aggressively

1686
01:14:54,950 --> 01:14:58,770
move out on how we strike that balance.

1687
01:14:58,770 --> 01:15:01,070
And I agree with you, I
agree with your testimony

1688
01:15:01,070 --> 01:15:04,230
that immigrants form the basis.

1689
01:15:04,230 --> 01:15:07,500
I love your the statistic that you sited

1690
01:15:07,500 --> 01:15:10,510
on how many Nobel Peace Prize winners,

1691
01:15:10,510 --> 01:15:13,660
have gone to immigrants, 38% I believe.

1692
01:15:13,660 --> 01:15:18,040
But would you support
legislation that limited

1693
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:23,040
or frankly barred Defense
Department R&D dollars

1694
01:15:23,370 --> 01:15:28,300
going to institutions that
have research professors

1695
01:15:28,300 --> 01:15:30,180
in the talents program?

1696
01:15:30,180 --> 01:15:32,520
I mean, I think we need
to draw a hard line,

1697
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:35,120
but I want your perspective, please.

1698
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,510
- Specific organizations like
the Thousand Talents Program

1699
01:15:38,510 --> 01:15:42,680
and all that, can be highly suspect,

1700
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,630
and I would not want to
make a blanket assertion

1701
01:15:45,630 --> 01:15:49,090
about what legislation we
could or couldn't go with,

1702
01:15:49,090 --> 01:15:53,150
but yes we are concerned about
those kinds of organizations.

1703
01:15:53,150 --> 01:15:56,020
We are concerned about the
idea that we would not know

1704
01:15:56,020 --> 01:16:00,220
who is doing work being
done on DOD dollars.

1705
01:16:00,220 --> 01:16:02,070
I agree with those concerns.

1706
01:16:02,070 --> 01:16:04,370
- Dr. Griffin, I think we're concerned.

1707
01:16:04,370 --> 01:16:06,640
I think we've been
concerned for some time.

1708
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,420
I'm interested in what concrete action

1709
01:16:09,420 --> 01:16:12,470
and where we can draw some lines.

1710
01:16:12,470 --> 01:16:14,020
They are stealing the way to the top.

1711
01:16:14,020 --> 01:16:16,510
And we will continue
this arms race of money,

1712
01:16:16,510 --> 01:16:17,870
but we're facing an adversary

1713
01:16:17,870 --> 01:16:20,180
for the first time ever in our history

1714
01:16:20,180 --> 01:16:23,020
that is on track to have a
bigger economy than ours.

1715
01:16:23,020 --> 01:16:25,440
So we could have a long debate

1716
01:16:25,440 --> 01:16:28,510
about our innovation talent
and our values versus theirs,

1717
01:16:28,510 --> 01:16:31,670
but I am not for continuing
to pour taxpayer dollars

1718
01:16:31,670 --> 01:16:36,050
into their R&D, and what
concretely can we do,

1719
01:16:36,050 --> 01:16:41,040
can we help you all do
to stem this siphoning

1720
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:42,363
that continues to happen?

1721
01:16:45,670 --> 01:16:48,573
- I understand and we are concerned.

1722
01:16:48,573 --> 01:16:53,363
It is an extremely difficult
problem, in order that we,

1723
01:16:54,270 --> 01:16:57,357
we don't want to become our
adversary in the process

1724
01:16:57,357 --> 01:17:00,053
of remaining ahead of our adversary.

1725
01:17:01,666 --> 01:17:04,290
- We also don't want to be sharing a world

1726
01:17:04,290 --> 01:17:05,740
or subsume to our adversary

1727
01:17:05,740 --> 01:17:08,550
which is President's Xi stated goal,

1728
01:17:08,550 --> 01:17:11,220
through the use, you know, sign of 2025,

1729
01:17:11,220 --> 01:17:14,780
and through essentially
stealing our technological edge.

1730
01:17:14,780 --> 01:17:17,223
- I could not agree more.

1731
01:17:19,085 --> 01:17:24,085
I came back to the DOD in
order to deal with this issue

1732
01:17:24,230 --> 01:17:25,765
of great power competition

1733
01:17:25,765 --> 01:17:28,270
with the skills that I
can bring to the table

1734
01:17:28,270 --> 01:17:31,050
which are, as Miss Houlahan was saying,

1735
01:17:31,050 --> 01:17:33,033
geek skills and not war fighter skills.

1736
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:38,823
But I want us to be
aware of the long game,

1737
01:17:39,730 --> 01:17:41,920
the long-term strategy

1738
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:46,880
of changing what got us to where we are.

1739
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:50,200
I want us to go after, with full force,

1740
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:52,610
those people who are
here under false colors,

1741
01:17:52,610 --> 01:17:55,653
those people who commit
espionage or IP theft.

1742
01:17:56,650 --> 01:17:59,240
I want us to go after the bad actors.

1743
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:01,210
- I think just in the
interest of the time,

1744
01:18:01,210 --> 01:18:05,270
I would welcome a follow
on with any and all of you.

1745
01:18:05,270 --> 01:18:07,353
I'm sitting on both sides of this,

1746
01:18:08,737 --> 01:18:10,780
you know, on both committees.

1747
01:18:10,780 --> 01:18:12,550
But we have to be cognizant

1748
01:18:12,550 --> 01:18:16,110
that every single Chinese
student, professor, you name it,

1749
01:18:16,110 --> 01:18:18,170
is violating Chinese law

1750
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:22,340
under President Xi's intelligence laws

1751
01:18:22,340 --> 01:18:24,510
to not provide whatever they're asked for.

1752
01:18:24,510 --> 01:18:25,480
So they have no choice,

1753
01:18:25,480 --> 01:18:27,820
they can be the greatest
people that we've ever known

1754
01:18:27,820 --> 01:18:30,340
and wonderful and willing,

1755
01:18:30,340 --> 01:18:34,110
but their families are held at risk,

1756
01:18:34,110 --> 01:18:35,520
should they not provide,

1757
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:36,353
and we have to be cognizant of that,

1758
01:18:36,353 --> 01:18:38,690
and I think we need to
take some pretty meaningful

1759
01:18:38,690 --> 01:18:39,940
and drastic action.

1760
01:18:39,940 --> 01:18:41,610
But thank you, I yield my time,

1761
01:18:41,610 --> 01:18:43,640
and I look forward to a follow
on conversation with you.

1762
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:44,990
Thank you, sir.

1763
01:18:44,990 --> 01:18:46,350
- Gentlemen, the time is expired.

1764
01:18:46,350 --> 01:18:48,510
We'll now have a second
round of questions.

1765
01:18:48,510 --> 01:18:50,710
I'll recognize myself first.

1766
01:18:50,710 --> 01:18:52,110
I was wondering if the witnesses

1767
01:18:52,110 --> 01:18:54,990
would be willing to
supply the subcommittee

1768
01:18:54,990 --> 01:18:59,360
with a list of industries
or scientific areas

1769
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:04,000
in which US companies are
not the world leaders.

1770
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,850
'Cause it's my impression
for example, with 5G,

1771
01:19:06,850 --> 01:19:08,780
and our competition with Huawei,

1772
01:19:08,780 --> 01:19:12,200
that the leading competitors
are Erickson and Nokia,

1773
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:15,340
but not the US-based company.

1774
01:19:15,340 --> 01:19:17,670
So I would be interested
in areas like that

1775
01:19:17,670 --> 01:19:20,530
because I think sometimes
we blithely assume

1776
01:19:20,530 --> 01:19:23,050
that US companies are leading
the way and always on top,

1777
01:19:23,050 --> 01:19:27,000
and I think increasingly, we may not be.

1778
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:28,990
Facial recognition, there
are a number of things

1779
01:19:28,990 --> 01:19:33,360
where it could be that in order
to get world-class expertise

1780
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:35,653
we have to go outside our borders.

1781
01:19:36,580 --> 01:19:38,940
Would y'all be willing to
supply the subcommittee

1782
01:19:38,940 --> 01:19:41,790
a list like that?

1783
01:19:41,790 --> 01:19:43,450
Okay, thank you.

1784
01:19:43,450 --> 01:19:44,677
Second question is this

1785
01:19:44,677 --> 01:19:46,570
and it's a little bit more lawyer-like.

1786
01:19:46,570 --> 01:19:51,570
I'm worried that contracting
with the defense industry

1787
01:19:51,870 --> 01:19:54,170
hasn't kept up with the times.

1788
01:19:54,170 --> 01:19:55,300
When I was looking, for example,

1789
01:19:55,300 --> 01:19:57,470
at the various RKV contracts,

1790
01:19:57,470 --> 01:20:01,620
I saw in bold print at
the start of the contract

1791
01:20:01,620 --> 01:20:04,633
the Air Force retains design of authority,

1792
01:20:05,890 --> 01:20:08,950
and that looked pretty
authoritative and important.

1793
01:20:08,950 --> 01:20:10,740
Then I looked further in the contract

1794
01:20:10,740 --> 01:20:14,260
to see that the defense industry

1795
01:20:14,260 --> 01:20:15,760
really was helping the Air Force

1796
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,550
come up with their design parameters,

1797
01:20:18,550 --> 01:20:21,130
so that made me wonder
if this was circular

1798
01:20:21,130 --> 01:20:25,920
and who in fact was designing the RKV.

1799
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:30,500
So it seems to me, and this
is just anecdotal experience,

1800
01:20:30,500 --> 01:20:33,140
that more and more our services

1801
01:20:33,140 --> 01:20:36,150
are essentially kind of
shopping from a catalog

1802
01:20:36,150 --> 01:20:38,810
to see what industry has to offer,

1803
01:20:38,810 --> 01:20:43,013
as opposed to specify to
industry exactly what they need.

1804
01:20:44,070 --> 01:20:45,860
We'll have testimony tomorrow

1805
01:20:45,860 --> 01:20:47,920
from a very important four star,

1806
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:51,260
and my purpose isn't to embarrass him,

1807
01:20:51,260 --> 01:20:56,260
but he makes this seem like
it's a virtuous thing to do.

1808
01:20:56,370 --> 01:20:58,820
We don't know what we want,
so why don't you tell us,

1809
01:20:58,820 --> 01:21:00,470
and then we'll pick what we like.

1810
01:21:01,638 --> 01:21:05,000
And that might work in a environment

1811
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:07,183
in which US companies are number one,

1812
01:21:08,370 --> 01:21:09,730
but it's not going to work

1813
01:21:09,730 --> 01:21:14,513
if US companies are second,
third, fourth, fifth place.

1814
01:21:15,730 --> 01:21:17,610
- Yes, sir, from the
Department of the Navy,

1815
01:21:17,610 --> 01:21:20,370
I think it, like many things, depends,

1816
01:21:20,370 --> 01:21:21,430
and there's no absolutes.

1817
01:21:21,430 --> 01:21:24,690
What I would say is the government
just blindly throwing out

1818
01:21:24,690 --> 01:21:28,770
a specification without
understanding is it obtainium

1819
01:21:28,770 --> 01:21:32,730
or at what cost or price,
is not terribly useful.

1820
01:21:32,730 --> 01:21:35,840
Likewise, having the contractor
propose the specification

1821
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:39,000
without any expertise or
oversight is not useful.

1822
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:41,990
Where we trying and say,
in our frigate program,

1823
01:21:41,990 --> 01:21:45,550
is probably our best example
of we talk about the need,

1824
01:21:45,550 --> 01:21:48,350
but not the details
specifications, and then iterate,

1825
01:21:48,350 --> 01:21:51,120
with numerous industry
partners in competition

1826
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:53,540
to find that sweet spot of capability

1827
01:21:53,540 --> 01:21:55,500
versus cost versus schedule.

1828
01:21:55,500 --> 01:21:58,080
And I think that's a good place to be.

1829
01:21:58,080 --> 01:21:59,690
- Representative, it's a great question.

1830
01:21:59,690 --> 01:22:02,930
I can't speak to the RKV, that's
under Dr. Griffin's purview

1831
01:22:02,930 --> 01:22:05,330
but one thing that is helping us

1832
01:22:05,330 --> 01:22:06,580
in the Department of the Air Force

1833
01:22:06,580 --> 01:22:08,430
are the rapid prototyping authorities

1834
01:22:08,430 --> 01:22:10,600
that were granted by Congress.

1835
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:13,850
It's allowing us to push design
more on the government side

1836
01:22:13,850 --> 01:22:16,550
without tying the program
to a long production

1837
01:22:16,550 --> 01:22:19,010
and sustainment where
we can't get out of it.

1838
01:22:19,010 --> 01:22:21,030
Speeding up programs
when you can prototype

1839
01:22:21,030 --> 01:22:22,880
is the bridge between the idea

1840
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:24,760
and the requirements that come from it

1841
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:26,270
to the production line,

1842
01:22:26,270 --> 01:22:28,110
and it's also a natural conduit

1843
01:22:28,110 --> 01:22:29,730
to get things out of the laboratory

1844
01:22:29,730 --> 01:22:31,180
and to programs of record

1845
01:22:31,180 --> 01:22:33,440
without having to commit to them up front.

1846
01:22:33,440 --> 01:22:35,230
The lesson we've got to
learn across the department

1847
01:22:35,230 --> 01:22:37,410
is if we fund things late to need,

1848
01:22:37,410 --> 01:22:39,600
then you have to go with
what industry can build.

1849
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:41,450
If you have the foresight to fund things

1850
01:22:41,450 --> 01:22:42,430
a little ahead of need,

1851
01:22:42,430 --> 01:22:44,140
then you have time to explore designs

1852
01:22:44,140 --> 01:22:46,230
when the government is driving

1853
01:22:46,230 --> 01:22:47,870
towards a more aggressive solution.

1854
01:22:47,870 --> 01:22:50,120
And I hope that we'll
learn that lesson, sir.

1855
01:22:52,424 --> 01:22:53,819
- Mr. Jette, Dr. Jette.

1856
01:22:53,819 --> 01:22:57,020
- Sir, very much like Dr. Roper,

1857
01:22:57,020 --> 01:22:58,290
there are some circumstances

1858
01:22:58,290 --> 01:23:01,000
where just shopping is
probably the appropriate thing

1859
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:03,380
because we need something
and we need something quick.

1860
01:23:03,380 --> 01:23:06,510
We have, in the Army, changed our lexicon,

1861
01:23:06,510 --> 01:23:08,210
pretty much we said we have requirements,

1862
01:23:08,210 --> 01:23:11,470
now we're talking about
characteristics versus requirements

1863
01:23:11,470 --> 01:23:13,250
where requirements are the type of thing

1864
01:23:13,250 --> 01:23:16,140
we put on the street
for a production model

1865
01:23:16,140 --> 01:23:17,930
and the characteristics
are the type of thing

1866
01:23:17,930 --> 01:23:22,920
that we're evolving through
digital design, prototyping,

1867
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:26,370
and a cycle between these and industry.

1868
01:23:26,370 --> 01:23:28,220
That way, we can get all the way

1869
01:23:28,220 --> 01:23:30,090
from just industry talking to us

1870
01:23:30,090 --> 01:23:31,800
to building a digital design

1871
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:34,510
to a refined design to
finally a prototype.

1872
01:23:34,510 --> 01:23:37,190
And at each phase, it gives us a chance

1873
01:23:37,190 --> 01:23:41,150
to get industry input and insight,

1874
01:23:41,150 --> 01:23:42,630
where we may not have seen it,

1875
01:23:42,630 --> 01:23:45,723
but not necessarily give
our soul away to them.

1876
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:49,090
- My time has expired, Miss Stefanik.

1877
01:23:49,090 --> 01:23:50,830
- [Stefanik] I yield
the balance of my time

1878
01:23:50,830 --> 01:23:53,713
to the final question for the
minority side to Mr. Waltz.

1879
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:55,610
- Thank you, Miss Stefanik.

1880
01:23:55,610 --> 01:23:59,083
I wanted to, two questions
for you, Dr. Jette.

1881
01:24:00,210 --> 01:24:01,690
I just wanted to get your assessment

1882
01:24:01,690 --> 01:24:03,650
on the realignment of the Army labs

1883
01:24:03,650 --> 01:24:06,260
under under AFC, the Army Futures Command,

1884
01:24:06,260 --> 01:24:10,350
and I'm sure you're aware there's concerns

1885
01:24:10,350 --> 01:24:12,670
floating about short-term versus long-term

1886
01:24:12,670 --> 01:24:14,160
and just how that alignment is going.

1887
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:16,810
The other question, I
think, not only for you,

1888
01:24:16,810 --> 01:24:20,470
but for everyone, is we
have a lot of discussion

1889
01:24:20,470 --> 01:24:22,610
about recruiting the right talent.

1890
01:24:22,610 --> 01:24:24,760
We were just out at the Jake,

1891
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:29,020
and it was maybe a little
bit counter-intuitively

1892
01:24:29,020 --> 01:24:31,440
for an AI center, their number one concern

1893
01:24:31,440 --> 01:24:32,960
is human talent, right?

1894
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:36,020
Database managers, all the
folks that we all struggle

1895
01:24:36,020 --> 01:24:38,090
to bring into the enterprise.

1896
01:24:38,090 --> 01:24:39,900
One of the things that
I personally have seen

1897
01:24:39,900 --> 01:24:41,630
as a still serving Guardsman

1898
01:24:41,630 --> 01:24:45,200
is that we have a database
of our civilian skillsets,

1899
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:47,600
but it's not structured in a way

1900
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:49,050
that is usable, searchable,

1901
01:24:49,050 --> 01:24:50,080
and the Guard and Reserve

1902
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:52,540
certainly is an organized around it,

1903
01:24:52,540 --> 01:24:55,950
so if you ask the Guard or the Reserves

1904
01:24:55,950 --> 01:24:57,540
how many people do you have

1905
01:24:57,540 --> 01:24:59,370
working at the big five tech firms

1906
01:24:59,370 --> 01:25:03,710
or have those civilian skillsets
that could be that bridge,

1907
01:25:03,710 --> 01:25:06,200
and are they better used
for that civilian skillset

1908
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:07,360
they bring in already?

1909
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:10,650
Already cleared, already
in the system, ready to go,

1910
01:25:10,650 --> 01:25:15,650
or are they more useful
as, you know, as an O-4 MP,

1911
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:18,880
right, military policeman
or a database scientist

1912
01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:19,870
that they're bringing to the fight?

1913
01:25:19,870 --> 01:25:21,370
So those were the two,

1914
01:25:21,370 --> 01:25:26,370
the labs and also that civilian database

1915
01:25:26,610 --> 01:25:29,380
that somewhat exists, but
I think could be used,

1916
01:25:29,380 --> 01:25:30,720
in my opinion, could be used better.

1917
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:33,153
Or maybe there's efforts
underway that I'm unaware.

1918
01:25:34,410 --> 01:25:35,853
- Sir, both great questions.

1919
01:25:36,830 --> 01:25:40,110
So AFC, the laboratory system,

1920
01:25:40,110 --> 01:25:44,250
so what where the DECs, the
development engineering centers,

1921
01:25:44,250 --> 01:25:48,391
the Army research lab, and
the Army research office

1922
01:25:48,391 --> 01:25:52,653
are all under one entity,
CCDC under at AFC.

1923
01:25:54,210 --> 01:25:55,043
I have,

1924
01:25:56,070 --> 01:25:59,790
there is an Army directive
the Secretary signed out

1925
01:25:59,790 --> 01:26:01,050
that puts me,

1926
01:26:01,050 --> 01:26:05,990
continues my role as overarching
supervisor of the facility.

1927
01:26:05,990 --> 01:26:09,935
I work very closely with the
General Murray on programs.

1928
01:26:09,935 --> 01:26:14,935
My DASA R&T who's my Deputy
for Research and Technology

1929
01:26:18,260 --> 01:26:21,133
participates in program reviews,

1930
01:26:22,340 --> 01:26:24,400
we have phase gate reviews,

1931
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:28,270
so we're deeply involved
in the technology,

1932
01:26:28,270 --> 01:26:30,060
technology selection, maturation.

1933
01:26:30,060 --> 01:26:33,290
We still have transition
agreements from the programs.

1934
01:26:33,290 --> 01:26:34,713
So I think at this point,

1935
01:26:35,850 --> 01:26:37,850
there's always when you change something

1936
01:26:37,850 --> 01:26:39,570
between organizations,

1937
01:26:39,570 --> 01:26:41,760
I always say there's
forming, storming, norming.

1938
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:44,090
We're past any of the storming.

1939
01:26:44,090 --> 01:26:45,900
We're pretty much forming,

1940
01:26:45,900 --> 01:26:48,290
occasional tornado roll by,

1941
01:26:48,290 --> 01:26:52,443
and Murray and I will resolve the issue,

1942
01:26:52,443 --> 01:26:55,163
but things are generally
working fairly well.

1943
01:26:57,000 --> 01:26:59,093
In the recruiting talent department,

1944
01:27:00,130 --> 01:27:01,160
so it would be interesting

1945
01:27:01,160 --> 01:27:03,630
to see which state you're referencing

1946
01:27:03,630 --> 01:27:06,200
because we just rolled
out a new personnel system

1947
01:27:08,642 --> 01:27:09,475
to the states.

1948
01:27:10,810 --> 01:27:13,720
It's it's a rev two,

1949
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:17,780
and it should begin picking
up these type of things.

1950
01:27:17,780 --> 01:27:19,720
We have another one which is it going on

1951
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:22,300
which it as say, rev three,

1952
01:27:22,300 --> 01:27:23,920
that won't be out for a little bit longer,

1953
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:28,000
and that will subsume
everything, all three composts,

1954
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:29,880
to be able to manage and it's got--

1955
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:31,170
- I would just encourage you

1956
01:27:31,170 --> 01:27:34,050
to take a hard look down at the user level

1957
01:27:34,050 --> 01:27:37,970
because all I hear are
complaints about that system.

1958
01:27:37,970 --> 01:27:40,510
So I just courage you to deep dive

1959
01:27:40,510 --> 01:27:42,030
'cause I still on the weekends

1960
01:27:42,030 --> 01:27:43,580
jump out of perfectly good airplanes

1961
01:27:43,580 --> 01:27:46,670
and then hear about the complaints.

1962
01:27:46,670 --> 01:27:49,520
But it's one thing to get it
structured in a new system,

1963
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,710
it's another thing, as an institution,

1964
01:27:52,710 --> 01:27:54,810
to mine that and to utilize that,

1965
01:27:54,810 --> 01:27:58,790
and perhaps to pluck that data scientist

1966
01:27:58,790 --> 01:28:00,360
out of one thing where he is

1967
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:03,860
in his military occupational
specialty and use him,

1968
01:28:03,860 --> 01:28:05,083
him or her, excuse me,

1969
01:28:06,190 --> 01:28:08,030
for that civilian skillset, and I think,

1970
01:28:08,030 --> 01:28:10,040
we saw that in the
stability operations world,

1971
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:11,760
are they better as a deputy sheriff

1972
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:13,810
or as a trigger puller, right?

1973
01:28:13,810 --> 01:28:15,020
And that back and forth,

1974
01:28:15,020 --> 01:28:18,070
and I think I would
venture to say that just a,

1975
01:28:18,070 --> 01:28:20,460
it's not a silver bullet,

1976
01:28:20,460 --> 01:28:21,980
but something I'd
encourage you to look at.

1977
01:28:21,980 --> 01:28:25,440
- Yes, sir, we never even
knew the list before,

1978
01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:28,280
now we at least are
working on getting list.

1979
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:30,680
We pulled the number of
them out from the 75th

1980
01:28:32,970 --> 01:28:34,430
for work under AFC.

1981
01:28:34,430 --> 01:28:37,210
- And DIUX, but it's been ad hoc,

1982
01:28:37,210 --> 01:28:40,810
it's been, you know, by
personality and by who you know

1983
01:28:40,810 --> 01:28:42,730
rather than a systematic approach.

1984
01:28:42,730 --> 01:28:43,600
- You're right, sir.

1985
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:45,150
It's going to take a little time

1986
01:28:45,150 --> 01:28:47,453
to get this turned into a real process.

1987
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:51,470
- [Waltz] Thank you,
Ranking Member, I yield.

1988
01:28:51,470 --> 01:28:53,210
- [Stefanik] Yield back.

1989
01:28:53,210 --> 01:28:54,820
- Thank you, if there
are no further questions,

1990
01:28:54,820 --> 01:28:56,320
the subcommittee is adjourned.