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Thank you . General Milley . It's 

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your testimony that you recommended 

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2500 troops approximately stay in 

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Afghanistan . Um 

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as I've said many times before this 

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committee and other committees . I 

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don't share my personal recommendation 

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to the president . But I can tell you 

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my personal opinion in my assessment if 

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that's what you want . Yes , please . 

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Um Yes , my assessment was uh Back in 

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the fall of 20 and it remained 

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consistent throughout that we should 

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keep a steady state of 2500 and it 

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could bounce up to 3500 , maybe 

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something like that in order to move 

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toward a negotiated , gated solution . 

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Did you present ? Did you ever present 

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that assessment personally to president 

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biden ? I don't discuss exactly what my 

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conversations are with the sitting 

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president in the oval Office , but I 

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can tell you what my personal opinion 

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was and I always candid General 

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Mackenzie . Do you share that 

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assessment ? Senator I do share that 

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assessment . Um Did you ever present 

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that opinion personally to President 

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biden ? I'm not gonna be able to 

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comment on those executive discussions . 

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Did General Miller ever present that 

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opinion personally to President biden ? 

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I think it's best to ask him . I 

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believe that his opinion was well heard . 

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Uh Secretary Austin , uh President 

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biden last month in an interview with 

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George . Stephanopoulos said that no 

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military leader advised him to leave a 

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small troop presence in Afghanistan . 

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Is that true ? 

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Uh Senator card . And I I believe 

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that . Well , first of all , I know the 

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president to be an honest and 

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forthright man . Uh secondly , it's a 

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simple question , Secretary Austin , he 

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said no senior military leader advised 

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him leave the small troop presence 

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behind , Is that true or not ? Do these 

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Officer and General Miller's 

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recommendations ? Get to the president 

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personally . Their input was was 

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received by the President and 

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considered by the President for sure . 

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In terms of what they specifically 

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recommended senator . They just as they 

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just said , uh they're not going to 

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provide what they recommended in 

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confidence . I mean , it sounds to me 

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this is shocking to me . It sounds to 

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me like maybe their best military 

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advice was never presented personally 

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to the President of United States about 

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such a highly consequential matter . 

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Let me move on to another 

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recommendation . They are reported to 

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have made General Milley . Uh Joe Biden 

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has said that it was the unanimous , 

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the unanimous recommendation of the 

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joint chiefs that we not maintain a 

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military presence beyond August 31 

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we've heard testimony that affect today 

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as well . When was that unanimous 

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recommendation sought and presented to 

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the President ? You talk about the 

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31 August 31 August 25 August 

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I was asked to make an assessment and 

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provide best military advice . uh I'm 

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sorry my time is limited here . You 

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just gave me the answer that needed 

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here , August 25 Correent . Kabul fell 

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in August 15 . That's correct . You 

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were not asked before August 2016 On 

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August 25 , I was asked to provide best 

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military assessment is whether we 

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should keep military forces past the 

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31st Secretary Austin , Was anybody 

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asked before August 25 if we should 

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keep troops at the Kabul Airport . 

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This is the president tasked us to to 

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make , to provide an assessment on 

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whether or not we should extend our 

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presence beyond august 31st . And as 

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General Milley just said that 

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assessment was was made , we task them 

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to make that assessment on the 25th and 

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he came back and provided his best 

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military advice . Secretary Kabul fell 

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on August 15 . It was clear that we had 

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thousands of America . It's clear to 

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members of this committee we're getting 

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phone calls that we had thousands of 

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americans in Afghanistan behind taliban 

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lines on august 15th and it took 10 

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days to ask these general officers if 

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we should extend our president . I 

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suspect the answer might be a little 

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different . If you were asking them 16 

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days out , not five days out again . My 

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time is limited . I want to move on to 

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another matter . Um , okay , President 

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biden's budget evacuation screwed 

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things up coming and going as it 

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relates to afghan evacuees . We left 

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behind thousands of afghans who served 

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alongside side of us who are vetted and 

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approved to come here . We brought out 

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thousands who really have no particular 

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connection about whom we know nothing 

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and cannot be effectively vetted ? You 

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now have female troops who have been 

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assaulted ? You have afghan evacuates 

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committing crimes at fort McCoy . 

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What , what are we to make of this ? 

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What steps are we taking to ensure that 

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thousands of afghans about who we know 

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nothing are not going to be a menace to 

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our troops that our military bases 

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entered the communities into which 

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they're about to be released . Senator . 

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I'm certainly aware of the allegations 

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and I take the the allegations very 

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seriously and I can assure you that uh 

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our commanders at our bases have what 

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they need to be able to protect our 

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troops and our families that that work 

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and live at those bases . And I I'm in 

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contact with General Van Herck , the 

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north com commander who has overall uh 

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who has overall responsibility for the 

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for the operation on a routine basis . 

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And uh and this is an area that he 

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remains cited on all right . I just got 

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one final question . General Milley , I 

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can only conclude that your advice 

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About staying in Afghanistan was 

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rejected . I'm shocked to learn that 

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your advice wasn't sought until August 

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25 on staying past the August 31 

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deadline . I understand that you're the 

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principal military adviser that you 

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advise . You don't decide the president 

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decides . But if all this is true , 

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General Milley , why haven't you 

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resigned Sarah 

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as a senior military officer . Um 

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resigning is a really serious thing . 

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It's a political act If I'm resigning 

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in protest . My job is to provide 

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advice . My statutory responsibility to 

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provide legal advice or best military 

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advice to the president ? And that's my 

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legal requirement . That's what the law 

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is . Um The President doesn't have to 

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agree with that advice . He doesn't 

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have to make those decisions just 

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because we're generals . And it would 

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be an incredible act of political 

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defiance for commissioned officer to 

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just resign . Because my advice is not 

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taken . This country doesn't want 

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generals figuring out what orders we 

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are going to accept and do or not . 

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That's not our job . The principle of 

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civilian control of the military is 

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absolute . It's critical to this 

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republic . In addition to that , just 

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from a personal standpoint , you know , 

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my my dad didn't get a choice to resign 

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at Iwo Jima and those kids there at 

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Abbey Gate , They don't get a choice to 

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resign . And I'm not gonna turn my back 

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on them . Uh I'm not gonna result , 

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they can't resign so I'm not going to 

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resign . There's no way uh if the 

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orders are illegal , we're in a 

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different place . But if the orders are 

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legal from civilian authority , I 

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intend to carry them out . Thank you . 

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Senator Cotton . Senator Hirono . 

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Please Thank you . Mr . Chairman , do I 

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understand you correctly , General 

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Mackenzie and General Milley that your 

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personal recommendation was that the 

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troops remain in Afghanistan . A 

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certain number of them beyond the 

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August 31 deadline . 

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No Senator . Our recommendation , this 

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is the Joint Chiefs of Staff . Um This 

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is myself included . General Mackenzie . 

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Uh Major General Donahue , The ground 

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Tactical Commander of the 82nd Airborne 

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Division and Admiral Veasley , every 

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single one of us were in a tank . I 

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brought him up . There was Secretary 

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Austin did not show up . There's no 

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political pressure , there's no 

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expectation of consensus . Every one of 

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us evaluated the military conditions at 

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the time on the 25th and we made a 

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unanimous recommendation that we end 

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the military mission in transition to a 

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diplomatic mission . Thank you . So 

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well , you testified that you may have 

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had the personal recommendation . And I 

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think in your case General Mackenzie in 

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the fall of 2020 or might have been 

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General Milley uh that by the time 

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we're evacuating everyone , that was 

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not a recommendation that you 

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personally held them . Absolutely not . 

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At that point . On the 25th of august , 

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no . At the 25th of august we 

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recommended that the mission end on the 

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30 . Thank you for that clarification . 

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So they 

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Goodsuation was chaotic and yes , we 

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are really grateful that our military 

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performed magnificently and evacuating 

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over 120,000 people . But 

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somebody asked him , Secretary Blinken 

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acknowledged to my colleagues on the 

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Senate Foreign Relations Committee that 

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no one believes the afghan government 

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and military could collapse as rapidly 

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as it did , especially in the first 

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weeks of august however , U . S . 

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Forces conducted at least a couple of 

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airstrikes in the middle of july aimed 

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at blunting the Taliban's rapid advance . 

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The Secretary Austin in july , you were 

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aware when the body was aware that the 

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situation was deteriorating rapidly by 

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july , oh , why was an 

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action taken to secure the Kabul 

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airport or retake background then ? 

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Thank you . Senator . Uh You're right . 

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The tempo uh picked up 

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significantly . The Taliban continue to 

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make advances . Uh Our entire 

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chain of command myself , the Chairman 

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General Mackenzie uh routinely engage 

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the the Afghan leadership to encourage 

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them to solidify their defensive plans 

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uh to make sure that they were 

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providing the right logistics to their 

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troops and and and further stiffen 

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their defenses to no avail . Uh 

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And uh and to compound that 

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um President Ghani continued to make 

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changes in the leadership of the 

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military . And this created uh further 

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further problems for the for the Afghan 

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security forces . Mr Secretary , I 

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don't mean to interrupt you , but my 

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time is elapsing . So this gets to the 

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over estimation that the I think the 

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overly optimistic assessment because 

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even as late as july , You're still 

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encouraging the the Afghan special 

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forces . You're expecting the Afghani 

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government to remain . But that was not 

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the case . Uh in December of 2019 , the 

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Washington Post reported that the US 

275
00:10:56,746 --> 00:10:59,120
military commanders privately expressed 

276
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,176
a lack of confidence that the Afghan 

277
00:11:01,176 --> 00:11:04,250
army and police could ever fend off 

278
00:11:04,260 --> 00:11:07,120
much less defeat the Taliban on their 

279
00:11:07,130 --> 00:11:10,720
own . So General Milley , 

280
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,942
you noted that there were some specific 

281
00:11:12,942 --> 00:11:15,053
military lessons to be learned . This 

282
00:11:15,053 --> 00:11:17,164
is not the first time that I think we 

283
00:11:17,164 --> 00:11:19,770
have relied upon overly optimistic 

284
00:11:19,770 --> 00:11:22,020
assessments of conditions on the ground 

285
00:11:22,020 --> 00:11:24,210
or conflict conditions certainly 

286
00:11:24,210 --> 00:11:27,280
happened in Vietnam . So my question to 

287
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,140
you is what specific steps can we take 

288
00:11:31,150 --> 00:11:33,261
to make sure that our assessments are 

289
00:11:33,261 --> 00:11:36,900
not overly optimistic so we can avoid 

290
00:11:36,910 --> 00:11:40,300
the kind of reliance on 

291
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:43,330
assessments that are not accurate . I 

292
00:11:43,330 --> 00:11:45,880
think in the case of working with other 

293
00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:47,936
countries armies , it's important to 

294
00:11:47,936 --> 00:11:50,047
have advisers with those units as you 

295
00:11:50,047 --> 00:11:52,213
can do a holistic assessment of things 

296
00:11:52,213 --> 00:11:54,380
that are very difficult to measure the 

297
00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:56,324
morale factors . Leadership will I 

298
00:11:56,324 --> 00:11:59,150
think that's one key aspect . Another 

299
00:11:59,150 --> 00:12:01,206
part . I think it's really important 

300
00:12:01,206 --> 00:12:03,428
and this is a lesson from Vietnam and I 

301
00:12:03,428 --> 00:12:05,483
think today is don't americanize the 

302
00:12:05,483 --> 00:12:08,080
war . Um you know , we learned that in 

303
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:09,913
el Salvador or in Colombia , for 

304
00:12:09,913 --> 00:12:12,080
example , where we did assist and help 

305
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,024
other countries armies fight in uh 

306
00:12:14,024 --> 00:12:15,858
insurgencies and they were quite 

307
00:12:15,858 --> 00:12:18,060
effective . But it was their country , 

308
00:12:18,070 --> 00:12:21,030
their army that bore the burden of all 

309
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:23,308
the fighting . And we were we had very , 

310
00:12:23,308 --> 00:12:25,252
very few advisors and it was quite 

311
00:12:25,252 --> 00:12:27,086
effective . Now every country is 

312
00:12:27,086 --> 00:12:29,252
different . Every war is different has 

313
00:12:29,252 --> 00:12:31,474
to be evaluated on its own merits . But 

314
00:12:31,474 --> 00:12:30,610
I think those are some key points 

315
00:12:30,610 --> 00:12:32,666
they're worth thinking about agree . 

316
00:12:32,666 --> 00:12:34,777
Thank you . Mr Chairman , Thank you . 

317
00:12:34,777 --> 00:12:36,832
Senator Rhona Center rounds . Please 

318
00:12:36,832 --> 00:12:38,832
thank you . Mr Chairman gentlemen , 

319
00:12:38,832 --> 00:12:40,721
First of all , thank you for your 

320
00:12:40,721 --> 00:12:42,610
willingness to appear before this 

321
00:12:42,610 --> 00:12:44,666
committee to answer questions on the 

322
00:12:44,666 --> 00:12:46,610
withdrawal from Afghanistan you've 

323
00:12:46,610 --> 00:12:48,721
received and will continue to receive 

324
00:12:48,721 --> 00:12:48,420
tough questions on what led to this 

325
00:12:48,420 --> 00:12:50,570
decision . This is an important 

326
00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:52,737
constitutional requirement of the jobs 

327
00:12:52,737 --> 00:12:54,903
that you have agreed to serve in . And 

328
00:12:54,903 --> 00:12:57,070
I thank you all for your many years of 

329
00:12:57,070 --> 00:12:58,860
service to our nation . Want to 

330
00:12:58,860 --> 00:13:00,916
underline the fact that every single 

331
00:13:00,916 --> 00:13:03,027
member of this committee , regardless 

332
00:13:03,027 --> 00:13:04,749
of party , is grateful for the 

333
00:13:04,749 --> 00:13:06,971
dedication and bravery exhibited by our 

334
00:13:06,971 --> 00:13:09,138
service members , especially those who 

335
00:13:09,138 --> 00:13:10,916
gave their last full measure of 

336
00:13:10,916 --> 00:13:14,890
devotion at Abbey Gate . General 

337
00:13:14,890 --> 00:13:18,450
Mackenzie . General Miller 

338
00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:21,140
told this committee uh , that he 

339
00:13:21,140 --> 00:13:24,100
recommended keeping 2500 troops in 

340
00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:25,989
Afghanistan . And this is back in 

341
00:13:25,989 --> 00:13:29,720
January of 2021 because he 

342
00:13:29,730 --> 00:13:32,080
felt that Afghan forces would not hold 

343
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,970
out long without our support . It seems 

344
00:13:34,970 --> 00:13:36,914
to me that there would have been a 

345
00:13:36,914 --> 00:13:38,859
process to convey General Miller's 

346
00:13:38,859 --> 00:13:40,970
recommendation to the President . Can 

347
00:13:40,970 --> 00:13:43,650
you share the process and who conveyed 

348
00:13:43,650 --> 00:13:46,000
General Miller's recommendation ? And 

349
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,056
was that recommendation delivered to 

350
00:13:48,056 --> 00:13:50,111
both President trump at the time and 

351
00:13:50,111 --> 00:13:51,860
also to President biden . 

352
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,510
So there is a process for delivering 

353
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,687
recommendations from commanders in the 

354
00:13:58,687 --> 00:14:00,742
field . I was part of that process . 

355
00:14:00,742 --> 00:14:02,964
While I've been very clear that I won't 

356
00:14:02,964 --> 00:14:05,187
give you my recommendation , I've given 

357
00:14:05,187 --> 00:14:07,242
you my view , which will I think you 

358
00:14:07,242 --> 00:14:09,298
can draw your own conclusions from . 

359
00:14:09,298 --> 00:14:11,076
And my view is that 2500 was an 

360
00:14:11,076 --> 00:14:13,298
appropriate number to remain . And that 

361
00:14:13,298 --> 00:14:13,210
if we went below that number . In fact , 

362
00:14:13,210 --> 00:14:15,432
we would probably witness a collapse of 

363
00:14:15,432 --> 00:14:17,543
the Afghan government and uh , in the 

364
00:14:17,543 --> 00:14:19,877
Afghan military . Gentlemen , gentlemen , 

365
00:14:19,877 --> 00:14:21,766
kensi man , just the , I guess my 

366
00:14:21,766 --> 00:14:23,932
question is , would it be fair for the 

367
00:14:23,932 --> 00:14:26,154
committee to assume that both President 

368
00:14:26,154 --> 00:14:29,540
trump and President biden received that 

369
00:14:29,540 --> 00:14:32,940
specific information that had been 

370
00:14:32,950 --> 00:14:35,640
assumed to be delivered by General 

371
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,880
Miller . I believe it would be 

372
00:14:37,890 --> 00:14:39,946
reasonable for the committee to send 

373
00:14:39,946 --> 00:14:42,001
that . And would General Miller have 

374
00:14:42,001 --> 00:14:44,112
been able to deliver that directly to 

375
00:14:44,112 --> 00:14:46,112
the President or would someone else 

376
00:14:46,112 --> 00:14:48,446
have had to have delivered that for him ? 

377
00:14:48,446 --> 00:14:50,557
I would leave it to General Miller to 

378
00:14:50,557 --> 00:14:52,779
express an opinion on that . But he and 

379
00:14:52,779 --> 00:14:52,260
I both had the opportunity to be an 

380
00:14:52,260 --> 00:14:54,316
executive session with the President 

381
00:14:54,316 --> 00:14:56,204
and I can't share anything beyond 

382
00:14:56,204 --> 00:14:59,960
making that statement . Thank you and 

383
00:15:02,140 --> 00:15:05,220
Secretary Austin . This committee was 

384
00:15:05,220 --> 00:15:08,210
briefed on the series of rock drills 

385
00:15:08,210 --> 00:15:10,770
rehearsal concept drills that examine 

386
00:15:10,770 --> 00:15:12,992
the many potential scenarios that could 

387
00:15:12,992 --> 00:15:14,992
arise to the execution of different 

388
00:15:14,992 --> 00:15:16,992
types of actions and counteractions 

389
00:15:16,992 --> 00:15:19,214
remembered by multiple leaders that the 

390
00:15:19,214 --> 00:15:21,326
worst case scenario and an forecasted 

391
00:15:21,326 --> 00:15:23,437
collapse of the Afghan government was 

392
00:15:23,437 --> 00:15:25,214
not something that these drills 

393
00:15:25,214 --> 00:15:27,360
factored in as a possibility . Is it 

394
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,340
true that we actually did tabletop 

395
00:15:29,340 --> 00:15:31,507
exercises and we actually went through 

396
00:15:31,507 --> 00:15:34,750
these drills and we never assumed that 

397
00:15:34,750 --> 00:15:36,972
there could be an immediate collapse of 

398
00:15:36,972 --> 00:15:40,390
the Afghan government . We , we planned 

399
00:15:40,390 --> 00:15:44,330
for a range of possibilities . Uh , the 

400
00:15:44,340 --> 00:15:46,620
entire collapse of the Afghan 

401
00:15:46,620 --> 00:15:50,320
government uh , was , was clearly one 

402
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,487
of the things that uh , if you look at 

403
00:15:52,487 --> 00:15:54,487
the intel estimates and some of the 

404
00:15:54,487 --> 00:15:56,653
estimates that others have made , that 

405
00:15:56,653 --> 00:15:58,876
could happen . But in terms of specific 

406
00:15:58,876 --> 00:16:00,987
planning , especially with respect to 

407
00:16:00,987 --> 00:16:04,280
neo we plan for uh you know , a 

408
00:16:04,290 --> 00:16:06,510
contested environment or unconcern 

409
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,120
contested environment . The requirement 

410
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,030
to uh to evacuate a moderate amount of 

411
00:16:12,030 --> 00:16:14,308
people versus a large amount of people . 

412
00:16:14,308 --> 00:16:16,419
So there was a range of possibilities 

413
00:16:16,419 --> 00:16:18,530
that we addressed , but never with an 

414
00:16:18,530 --> 00:16:20,697
immediate collapse of the government . 

415
00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:23,051
We certainly did not plan against the 

416
00:16:23,051 --> 00:16:25,273
collapse of the government in 11 days . 

417
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,430
Thank you . Um General 

418
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:33,130
Milley , uh I think Senator Cotton made 

419
00:16:33,130 --> 00:16:35,230
a very good point with regard to the 

420
00:16:35,230 --> 00:16:38,700
timing the collapse of Kabul and the 

421
00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:40,811
time in which you were asked for your 

422
00:16:40,811 --> 00:16:43,033
professional military opinion about the 

423
00:16:43,033 --> 00:16:45,180
path forward ? What seems to be the 

424
00:16:45,180 --> 00:16:47,180
real challenge for many of us is is 

425
00:16:47,180 --> 00:16:49,340
that it appears that in your 

426
00:16:49,340 --> 00:16:52,470
professional military opinion , it 

427
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:54,637
would have been prudent to have used a 

428
00:16:54,637 --> 00:16:57,020
different approach than a date certain 

429
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:58,863
with regard to a withdrawal from 

430
00:16:58,863 --> 00:17:02,350
Afghanistan . And if that is correct , 

431
00:17:02,940 --> 00:17:04,996
and if there were other alternatives 

432
00:17:04,996 --> 00:17:07,040
presented to the President , I'm 

433
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,151
certain that the frustration that you 

434
00:17:09,151 --> 00:17:11,207
felt in not having your professional 

435
00:17:11,207 --> 00:17:13,950
military advice , followed closely by 

436
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,810
an incoming president , that you are 

437
00:17:17,810 --> 00:17:19,921
then tasked in a very short period of 

438
00:17:19,921 --> 00:17:22,950
time with handling what was a 

439
00:17:23,940 --> 00:17:27,060
a position in time for the people that 

440
00:17:27,060 --> 00:17:29,480
were on the ground there to respond in 

441
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,591
an emergency basis , would it be fair 

442
00:17:31,591 --> 00:17:34,710
to say that you changed from a a a long 

443
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:37,000
term plan of gradual withdrawal based 

444
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,780
on conditions to one in which you had 

445
00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:42,570
to make immediate changes based upon a 

446
00:17:42,570 --> 00:17:46,240
date . Certain senator . 

447
00:17:46,250 --> 00:17:49,580
Um As a matter of professional advice I 

448
00:17:49,580 --> 00:17:52,170
would advise any leader . 

449
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,680
Uh don't put date certain on end dates . 

450
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,590
Make things conditions based . Um two 

451
00:17:59,590 --> 00:18:01,701
presidents in a row put dates on it . 

452
00:18:01,701 --> 00:18:05,430
Um I don't think that's uh my advice is 

453
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,500
don't put specific dates . Um Make 

454
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:10,860
things conditions base . That is That's 

455
00:18:10,860 --> 00:18:12,916
how I've been trained over many many 

456
00:18:12,916 --> 00:18:15,860
years I think with respect to the 31st 

457
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,800
Uh and the decision on 25th . The risk 

458
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,856
to mission and the risk of force and 

459
00:18:20,856 --> 00:18:22,700
most importantly the risk to the 

460
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:25,550
American citizens that are remaining uh 

461
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,730
that was going to go up not down on the 

462
00:18:28,730 --> 00:18:31,010
first of september uh And the american 

463
00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:32,954
citizens , I know there's american 

464
00:18:32,954 --> 00:18:35,177
citizens there but they would have been 

465
00:18:35,177 --> 00:18:37,343
at greater risk Had we stayed past the 

466
00:18:37,343 --> 00:18:39,288
31st in our professional opinion . 

467
00:18:39,288 --> 00:18:41,399
Thank you . Thank you . Mr . Chairman 

468
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,062
Senator Kaine . Please thank you . Mr . 

469
00:18:44,062 --> 00:18:46,173
Chair up to the witnesses . I want to 

470
00:18:46,173 --> 00:18:48,284
return to a point that Senator Wicker 

471
00:18:48,284 --> 00:18:50,507
made . I informed a D . O . D . Witness 

472
00:18:50,507 --> 00:18:52,618
about 10 days ago that I was gonna we 

473
00:18:52,618 --> 00:18:54,784
would expect to answer to the question 

474
00:18:54,784 --> 00:18:54,600
of how many americans are still in 

475
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,050
Afghanistan . And that we would not 

476
00:18:57,060 --> 00:18:59,004
appreciate an answer that that was 

477
00:18:59,004 --> 00:19:01,220
deferred to state . I'm going to ask 

478
00:19:01,220 --> 00:19:03,387
the question during my second round of 

479
00:19:03,387 --> 00:19:05,331
questions after lunch and with the 

480
00:19:05,331 --> 00:19:07,498
number of staff were here in this room 

481
00:19:07,498 --> 00:19:09,720
and in the anteroom we ought to be able 

482
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,720
to get an answer . And if and if we 

483
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,887
can't it will suggest to the committee 

484
00:19:13,887 --> 00:19:15,998
and I don't think you want to suggest 

485
00:19:15,998 --> 00:19:18,109
is to the committee um that you don't 

486
00:19:18,109 --> 00:19:20,276
want to be responsive to that question 

487
00:19:20,276 --> 00:19:22,276
or that you don't talk to the State 

488
00:19:22,276 --> 00:19:22,140
Department or that the number of 

489
00:19:22,140 --> 00:19:24,251
americans in Afghanistan is something 

490
00:19:24,251 --> 00:19:26,307
that you're indifferent to . I don't 

491
00:19:26,307 --> 00:19:28,418
think any of those are true . So I'll 

492
00:19:28,418 --> 00:19:28,350
ask the question again after lunch and 

493
00:19:28,350 --> 00:19:30,370
I hope we can get an answer . Two 

494
00:19:30,370 --> 00:19:32,148
compliments and then a critical 

495
00:19:32,148 --> 00:19:34,590
observation and inquiry . First thanks 

496
00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:36,646
to President Biden for ending the US 

497
00:19:36,646 --> 00:19:38,812
combat mission in Afghanistan after 20 

498
00:19:38,812 --> 00:19:40,840
years . It took guts and it was the 

499
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,896
right thing to do and it should have 

500
00:19:42,896 --> 00:19:45,062
been done earlier . A Virginia service 

501
00:19:45,062 --> 00:19:47,062
member whose wife is expecting said 

502
00:19:47,062 --> 00:19:49,400
this to me recently , I'm so glad that 

503
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,233
my baby is not being born into a 

504
00:19:51,233 --> 00:19:54,550
country at war . Someone has to stay on 

505
00:19:54,550 --> 00:19:56,606
permanent war footing in Afghanistan 

506
00:19:56,606 --> 00:19:58,606
and elsewhere . Some will point out 

507
00:19:58,606 --> 00:20:00,606
that US troops are still deployed , 

508
00:20:00,606 --> 00:20:02,661
still in harm's way , still carrying 

509
00:20:02,661 --> 00:20:04,883
out limited military strikes around the 

510
00:20:04,883 --> 00:20:06,939
world . But to the families of those 

511
00:20:06,939 --> 00:20:08,994
who have been deployed over and over 

512
00:20:08,994 --> 00:20:11,050
again into Iraq and Afghanistan over 

513
00:20:11,050 --> 00:20:13,217
the course of the last 20 years . They 

514
00:20:13,217 --> 00:20:15,050
are relieved that America is now 

515
00:20:15,050 --> 00:20:16,994
turning the page and rejecting the 

516
00:20:16,994 --> 00:20:19,106
notion that we should be a nation and 

517
00:20:19,106 --> 00:20:21,272
permanent war . Second , The effort to 

518
00:20:21,272 --> 00:20:23,328
evacuate more than 120,000 people to 

519
00:20:23,328 --> 00:20:25,494
safety under chaotic circumstances was 

520
00:20:25,494 --> 00:20:27,661
remarkable . I visited the Dulles expo 

521
00:20:27,661 --> 00:20:29,828
center the principal arrival point for 

522
00:20:29,828 --> 00:20:31,717
about 80% of the afghans . I also 

523
00:20:31,717 --> 00:20:33,840
visited Fort lee , the first of the 

524
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,460
eight forts that process afghans and I 

525
00:20:36,460 --> 00:20:38,571
visited with afghans our troops , the 

526
00:20:38,571 --> 00:20:40,849
many federal agencies working together . 

527
00:20:40,849 --> 00:20:43,320
Ngos , the competent and compassionate 

528
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,610
service on the american side and the 

529
00:20:45,610 --> 00:20:47,960
deep gratitude among afghans made a 

530
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,016
deep impression on me . We should do 

531
00:20:50,016 --> 00:20:52,740
all we can to make that transition to 

532
00:20:52,750 --> 00:20:54,861
safe life in America as productive as 

533
00:20:54,861 --> 00:20:57,020
possible . My chief criticism in 

534
00:20:57,020 --> 00:20:59,020
question is this why did the afghan 

535
00:20:59,020 --> 00:21:01,242
security forces and civilian government 

536
00:21:01,242 --> 00:21:03,409
collapsed so quickly ? And why did the 

537
00:21:03,409 --> 00:21:05,687
U . S . So overestimate their capacity ? 

538
00:21:05,687 --> 00:21:07,853
The second half of the question why we 

539
00:21:07,853 --> 00:21:09,909
overestimated their capacity is very 

540
00:21:09,909 --> 00:21:11,798
important to any who have said we 

541
00:21:11,798 --> 00:21:13,964
couldn't see this coming . The members 

542
00:21:13,964 --> 00:21:16,187
of this committee . No , that's wrong . 

543
00:21:16,187 --> 00:21:18,409
An immediate collapse may not have been 

544
00:21:18,409 --> 00:21:17,770
the most likely outcome . But we have 

545
00:21:17,770 --> 00:21:19,992
heard for years , particularly from the 

546
00:21:19,992 --> 00:21:22,214
intel community that diode estimates of 

547
00:21:22,214 --> 00:21:24,548
afghan strength were way too optimistic . 

548
00:21:24,740 --> 00:21:26,907
I believe the U . S . Government had a 

549
00:21:26,907 --> 00:21:28,684
good evacuation plan but it was 

550
00:21:28,684 --> 00:21:30,629
premised on an afghan civilian and 

551
00:21:30,629 --> 00:21:32,684
military government that showed high 

552
00:21:32,684 --> 00:21:34,796
resistance to the taliban . And so we 

553
00:21:34,796 --> 00:21:36,851
did not adequately plan for the real 

554
00:21:36,851 --> 00:21:39,018
possibility to quit collapse . We need 

555
00:21:39,018 --> 00:21:40,629
to explore both military and 

556
00:21:40,629 --> 00:21:42,740
interagency decision making processes 

557
00:21:42,740 --> 00:21:44,851
to understand why we were unrealistic 

558
00:21:44,851 --> 00:21:47,073
and how to correct that going forward . 

559
00:21:47,073 --> 00:21:49,018
But the most important part of the 

560
00:21:49,018 --> 00:21:50,907
question is why a military we had 

561
00:21:50,907 --> 00:21:52,796
trained for 20 years at a cost of 

562
00:21:52,796 --> 00:21:54,962
$800-plus billion dollars collapsed so 

563
00:21:54,962 --> 00:21:57,240
quickly . I can think of three reasons , 

564
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,351
but after I put them on the table , I 

565
00:21:59,351 --> 00:22:01,462
would like each of you beginning with 

566
00:22:01,462 --> 00:22:00,710
General Mackenzie to address the 

567
00:22:00,710 --> 00:22:02,710
question . If we can't we can do it 

568
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:04,821
when we come back after lunch first , 

569
00:22:04,821 --> 00:22:06,877
the lightning collapse may show that 

570
00:22:06,877 --> 00:22:09,043
our training was insufficient and that 

571
00:22:09,043 --> 00:22:11,690
it did not prepare the Afghan military 

572
00:22:11,690 --> 00:22:13,746
to defend the country on their own . 

573
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,062
That should have been our goal , but we 

574
00:22:16,062 --> 00:22:18,173
failed to accomplish it . If so , how 

575
00:22:18,173 --> 00:22:20,062
must we change our thinking about 

576
00:22:20,062 --> 00:22:22,229
training foreign militaries ? Second , 

577
00:22:22,229 --> 00:22:24,284
the lightning collapse may not prove 

578
00:22:24,284 --> 00:22:26,396
that the NSF were poor fighters , but 

579
00:22:26,396 --> 00:22:28,507
that they were demoralized . Did they 

580
00:22:28,507 --> 00:22:30,673
lack confidence in their own political 

581
00:22:30,673 --> 00:22:32,451
and military leaders where they 

582
00:22:32,451 --> 00:22:34,507
demoralize by a 2020 peace agreement 

583
00:22:34,507 --> 00:22:36,507
between the US and the Taliban that 

584
00:22:36,507 --> 00:22:38,229
didn't even include the Afghan 

585
00:22:38,229 --> 00:22:40,007
government ? Mr Child . Like to 

586
00:22:40,007 --> 00:22:42,118
introduce the peace agreement for the 

587
00:22:42,118 --> 00:22:44,173
record . Well objection . Did US and 

588
00:22:44,173 --> 00:22:46,173
allied funding deep in a culture of 

589
00:22:46,173 --> 00:22:48,062
corruption that long predated our 

590
00:22:48,062 --> 00:22:50,118
involvement . Even the best fighting 

591
00:22:50,118 --> 00:22:52,007
force may give in if they have no 

592
00:22:52,007 --> 00:22:54,284
confidence in their leadership . Third , 

593
00:22:54,284 --> 00:22:56,507
the lightning collapse may show that we 

594
00:22:56,507 --> 00:22:58,618
wanted things for afghans that afghan 

595
00:22:58,618 --> 00:22:58,450
leadership did not want for themselves . 

596
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,896
We celebrated gains in public health 

597
00:23:00,896 --> 00:23:02,896
and women's education and we assume 

598
00:23:02,896 --> 00:23:04,951
that afghans would fight to preserve 

599
00:23:04,951 --> 00:23:06,840
those gains rather than allow the 

600
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,062
taliban to take over . In other words , 

601
00:23:09,062 --> 00:23:11,340
we thought we knew what afghans wanted , 

602
00:23:11,340 --> 00:23:13,396
what they feared and what they would 

603
00:23:13,396 --> 00:23:15,507
fight for . But was our belief though 

604
00:23:15,507 --> 00:23:17,618
well intentioned , incredibly naive , 

605
00:23:17,618 --> 00:23:19,784
we can't get one third of americans to 

606
00:23:19,784 --> 00:23:21,729
take a covid vaccine or accept the 

607
00:23:21,729 --> 00:23:23,951
results of a presidential election . Do 

608
00:23:23,951 --> 00:23:26,007
we really think we can transform the 

609
00:23:26,007 --> 00:23:28,229
culture of another nation So to each of 

610
00:23:28,229 --> 00:23:30,340
our witnesses . When we return in the 

611
00:23:30,340 --> 00:23:32,284
second round , I will ask you this 

612
00:23:32,284 --> 00:23:34,173
question . Why do you believe the 

613
00:23:34,173 --> 00:23:36,396
afghan military and civilian government 

614
00:23:36,396 --> 00:23:38,750
collapsed so quickly ? Without I'll 

615
00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:40,750
yield back . Mr . Chair , thank you 

616
00:23:40,750 --> 00:23:42,694
very much . Senator McCain Senator 

617
00:23:42,694 --> 00:23:44,861
Orange , please . Yes . Thank you Mr . 

618
00:23:44,861 --> 00:23:46,917
Chair and gentlemen , thank you very 

619
00:23:46,917 --> 00:23:48,583
much for being here today and 

620
00:23:48,583 --> 00:23:51,240
unfortunately this morning's hearing is 

621
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,920
required due to the haphazard 

622
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,790
withdrawal of US forces , American 

623
00:23:55,790 --> 00:23:58,580
citizens and many of our afghan 

624
00:23:58,580 --> 00:24:02,580
partners . However , um we do want to 

625
00:24:02,580 --> 00:24:05,600
thank the men and women in uniform that 

626
00:24:05,610 --> 00:24:07,950
assisted the evacuation of those that 

627
00:24:07,950 --> 00:24:09,839
were able to make it out . And of 

628
00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:12,720
course to those that have service given 

629
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,776
their service and sacrifice over the 

630
00:24:14,776 --> 00:24:16,887
past two decades of the global war on 

631
00:24:16,887 --> 00:24:19,060
terror , the loss of our service 

632
00:24:19,060 --> 00:24:21,116
members and abandonment of americans 

633
00:24:21,116 --> 00:24:23,200
and afghan allies last month was an 

634
00:24:23,210 --> 00:24:25,920
unforced , disgraceful humiliation that 

635
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,650
didn't have to happen . The president 

636
00:24:28,650 --> 00:24:30,690
put a cheap political victory a 

637
00:24:30,690 --> 00:24:33,500
withdrawal timeline time to the 20th 

638
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:36,850
anniversary of 9 11 on his calendar and 

639
00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:39,510
executed his vision with little regard 

640
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:41,810
for american lives or the real threats 

641
00:24:41,810 --> 00:24:44,660
that we face . I do appreciate your 

642
00:24:44,670 --> 00:24:47,540
open , you're honest and expert 

643
00:24:47,540 --> 00:24:50,190
participation in communicating to this 

644
00:24:50,190 --> 00:24:53,580
committee . What went wrong ? I think 

645
00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:56,020
our american citizens are at a real 

646
00:24:56,020 --> 00:24:58,020
crossroads right now where they are 

647
00:24:58,020 --> 00:25:00,920
questioning the leadership from this 

648
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,560
president and this administration 

649
00:25:03,940 --> 00:25:05,940
President biden's blunders can't be 

650
00:25:05,940 --> 00:25:08,260
erased , but the United States must now 

651
00:25:08,260 --> 00:25:10,980
account for them through a revamped 

652
00:25:10,990 --> 00:25:13,510
counterterrorism strategy that 

653
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:16,110
recognizes the newfound momentum of 

654
00:25:16,110 --> 00:25:19,140
terrorists and new threats emanating 

655
00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:21,380
from the Middle East . In addition to 

656
00:25:21,380 --> 00:25:23,436
rising challenges that we see coming 

657
00:25:23,436 --> 00:25:27,100
from china and Russia . Pretty high 

658
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:29,930
stakes Secretary Austin , I'd like to 

659
00:25:29,930 --> 00:25:32,910
start with you . Did President biden or 

660
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,660
any of his national security advisers 

661
00:25:35,670 --> 00:25:39,560
express any military or diplomatic 

662
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,727
conditions for the american withdrawal 

663
00:25:41,727 --> 00:25:45,070
from Afghanistan beyond the looming 

664
00:25:45,070 --> 00:25:48,680
date of 9 11 . What were those military 

665
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,970
conditions or diplomatic conditions 

666
00:25:50,970 --> 00:25:52,414
that were outlined to you 

667
00:25:56,740 --> 00:25:59,100
again , once the president went through 

668
00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:00,989
a very deliberate decision making 

669
00:26:00,989 --> 00:26:04,050
process and made his decision that to 

670
00:26:04,050 --> 00:26:07,720
exit uh Afghanistan , there were no 

671
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,776
additional conditions placed on it . 

672
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,520
Can you tell me that he did take into 

673
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,020
consideration military or diplomatic 

674
00:26:18,020 --> 00:26:20,170
conditions and what were those 

675
00:26:20,170 --> 00:26:22,281
conditions that he was weighing as he 

676
00:26:22,281 --> 00:26:25,210
was making those decisions ? Sure . One 

677
00:26:25,210 --> 00:26:27,680
of the things that you know , all of us 

678
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,560
wanted to see happen was for this uh 

679
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,680
this conflict to end with with a 

680
00:26:33,690 --> 00:26:37,530
diplomatic solution . And so one of the 

681
00:26:37,530 --> 00:26:39,641
things that we we certainly wanted to 

682
00:26:39,641 --> 00:26:42,950
see was progress being made in the Doha 

683
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,370
negotiations and we did not see , he 

684
00:26:46,370 --> 00:26:48,830
did not see any progress being made and 

685
00:26:48,830 --> 00:26:50,941
uh and there was really not much of a 

686
00:26:50,941 --> 00:26:54,670
bright future for that process . So 

687
00:26:54,670 --> 00:26:57,700
General Milley had stated earlier that 

688
00:26:57,710 --> 00:27:00,720
his recommendation should is always as 

689
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,220
any military commander should do should 

690
00:27:03,220 --> 00:27:07,100
be conditions based and we 

691
00:27:07,100 --> 00:27:09,100
have to be able to evaluate whether 

692
00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:12,170
those conditions are achievable . Um 

693
00:27:12,170 --> 00:27:14,840
And if we can successfully complete 

694
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,140
those , it sounds like there were very 

695
00:27:17,140 --> 00:27:19,390
little or very little consideration 

696
00:27:19,390 --> 00:27:22,680
given to uh diplomatic or military 

697
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,030
conditions . The diplomatic again , 

698
00:27:26,030 --> 00:27:28,360
going to conditions based uh the 

699
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:31,640
diplomat diplomatic end to it . I think 

700
00:27:31,650 --> 00:27:33,872
General Milley , you also said that the 

701
00:27:33,872 --> 00:27:36,390
military mission would end on the 31st 

702
00:27:36,390 --> 00:27:39,090
and transition to a diplomatic mission . 

703
00:27:39,100 --> 00:27:41,480
But I don't understand how we fulfill a 

704
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,100
diplomatic mission after august 31st 

705
00:27:44,110 --> 00:27:46,680
when there are absolutely no diplomats 

706
00:27:46,690 --> 00:27:50,090
on the ground in Afghanistan , they're 

707
00:27:50,090 --> 00:27:53,200
gone . They've been evacuated . Who do 

708
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,460
we hand that mission off to when 

709
00:27:55,460 --> 00:27:57,571
there's nobody there to complete it . 

710
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,410
Um So can you then say that the 

711
00:28:01,410 --> 00:28:04,390
president directed you ? Secretary 

712
00:28:04,390 --> 00:28:07,080
Austin to execute an unconditional 

713
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,850
withdrawal from Afghanistan ? 

714
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,060
Unconditional , august 31st done 

715
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,510
once he made the decision to the to 

716
00:28:16,510 --> 00:28:18,700
withdraw . I mean we that was the 

717
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:22,300
decision to leave and uh we certainly 

718
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:25,550
wanted to make sure that we uh we 

719
00:28:25,550 --> 00:28:27,661
shaped conditions so that our embassy 

720
00:28:27,661 --> 00:28:29,661
could maintain a presence there and 

721
00:28:29,661 --> 00:28:32,390
continue to engage the government of of 

722
00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:34,334
Afghanistan . So protection of the 

723
00:28:34,334 --> 00:28:36,140
embassy was pretty important . 

724
00:28:36,150 --> 00:28:38,430
Secretary Austin , You are extremely 

725
00:28:38,430 --> 00:28:40,460
diplomatic in your answers . I can 

726
00:28:40,460 --> 00:28:42,910
appreciate that . But this was not a 

727
00:28:42,910 --> 00:28:46,160
conditions based withdrawal and I think 

728
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,880
all three of you have stated that you 

729
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,860
made your best opinion known to the 

730
00:28:51,860 --> 00:28:54,270
President of the United States . He had 

731
00:28:54,270 --> 00:28:57,080
no conditions other than to get our 

732
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,850
people out of Afghanistan , which he 

733
00:28:59,860 --> 00:29:01,660
failed at because we still have 

734
00:29:01,670 --> 00:29:05,290
americans as well as Afghan partners in 

735
00:29:05,290 --> 00:29:07,370
Afghanistan . Thank you . Mr Terry 

736
00:29:07,370 --> 00:29:09,370
Dilbeck , Thank you , Senator , our 

737
00:29:09,370 --> 00:29:12,780
Senator King . Please Thank you Mr 

738
00:29:12,780 --> 00:29:14,724
Chairman . I'm finding this a very 

739
00:29:14,724 --> 00:29:16,836
interesting hearing . It's really two 

740
00:29:16,836 --> 00:29:18,669
hearings at once . One is on the 

741
00:29:18,669 --> 00:29:21,002
question of should we leave Afghanistan ? 

742
00:29:21,002 --> 00:29:23,169
And if we shouldn't what should be the 

743
00:29:23,169 --> 00:29:23,000
nature of our troop commitment and our 

744
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,111
commitment to the country . The other 

745
00:29:25,111 --> 00:29:27,950
is the withdrawal , which I thought was 

746
00:29:27,950 --> 00:29:31,630
the subject of the hearing . Uh The 

747
00:29:31,630 --> 00:29:34,160
decision to leave Afghanistan was made 

748
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,660
by President Trump and his 

749
00:29:35,660 --> 00:29:38,460
administration on February 29 , 2020 

750
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,980
where we committed to leave by a date 

751
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:43,780
certain There was a particular 

752
00:29:43,780 --> 00:29:46,310
provisions or a condition if you will 

753
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,260
about negotiations between the Taliban 

754
00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:52,180
and the Afghan government ? There was 

755
00:29:52,180 --> 00:29:55,480
even a date specified March 10 , less 

756
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,702
than two weeks after the signing of the 

757
00:29:57,702 --> 00:30:01,240
Doha agreement . Clearly that 

758
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,518
condition was not met . My question is , 

759
00:30:03,518 --> 00:30:05,684
and General Milley , you were the only 

760
00:30:05,684 --> 00:30:08,018
one who overlap the two administrations . 

761
00:30:08,018 --> 00:30:10,240
Were there any efforts on behalf of the 

762
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,140
prior administration to enforce that 

763
00:30:13,150 --> 00:30:16,000
condition of negotiation with the 

764
00:30:16,010 --> 00:30:18,170
Afghan government and the taliban 

765
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,540
shower ? As a I said in my opening 

766
00:30:23,540 --> 00:30:27,360
remarks , um The conditions that were 

767
00:30:27,370 --> 00:30:29,537
required of the Taliban , none of them 

768
00:30:29,537 --> 00:30:31,703
were met except one . My question is , 

769
00:30:31,703 --> 00:30:33,481
did we attempt to enforce those 

770
00:30:33,481 --> 00:30:35,703
conditions that we inform the Taliban ? 

771
00:30:35,703 --> 00:30:37,926
For example , we won't advocate for the 

772
00:30:37,926 --> 00:30:39,981
release of 5000 prisoners unless you 

773
00:30:39,981 --> 00:30:42,314
begin negotiations or something similar . 

774
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,840
I don't have personal knowledge of that 

775
00:30:45,850 --> 00:30:48,220
whether or not you know , Zac alexander , 

776
00:30:48,220 --> 00:30:50,580
others were personally saying that I 

777
00:30:50,590 --> 00:30:52,701
can't I don't have personal knowledge 

778
00:30:52,701 --> 00:30:54,757
of that , but I do know that none of 

779
00:30:54,757 --> 00:30:54,610
the conditions were met except the one 

780
00:30:54,610 --> 00:30:56,777
which don't attack american forces and 

781
00:30:56,777 --> 00:30:59,190
coalition forces . That condition the 

782
00:30:59,190 --> 00:31:01,360
conditions were not met . But you 

783
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,800
testified that the troop withdrawals 

784
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,000
and the release of the 5000 Taliban 

785
00:31:06,010 --> 00:31:08,220
prisoners did proceed even though the 

786
00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:10,387
conditions have not been met ? Is that 

787
00:31:10,387 --> 00:31:12,553
correct ? That is correct . And you've 

788
00:31:12,553 --> 00:31:14,664
testified , you provide your invested 

789
00:31:14,664 --> 00:31:16,887
military advice to president biden that 

790
00:31:16,887 --> 00:31:18,998
there should be a residual force left 

791
00:31:18,998 --> 00:31:21,053
in Afghanistan . Did you provide the 

792
00:31:21,053 --> 00:31:20,870
same advice to President trump when 

793
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:22,592
they were negotiating the Doha 

794
00:31:22,592 --> 00:31:25,860
agreement ? Um again , I'm not going to 

795
00:31:25,870 --> 00:31:27,950
discuss precise advice . Was it your 

796
00:31:27,950 --> 00:31:30,310
best military judgment that a residual 

797
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:32,366
at that time ? Yes . And that's what 

798
00:31:32,366 --> 00:31:35,570
that a series of memos and advice and 

799
00:31:35,570 --> 00:31:37,681
meetings etc in the September October 

800
00:31:37,681 --> 00:31:39,792
time frame . That's exactly what they 

801
00:31:39,792 --> 00:31:41,848
were . And you can talk to secretary 

802
00:31:41,848 --> 00:31:41,350
aspirin , he could tell you the same 

803
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:43,430
thing . So , your military judgment 

804
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,660
didn't change on January 20 . No , 

805
00:31:47,140 --> 00:31:48,760
thank you . Uh 

806
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,207
General Mackenzie . You you touched on 

807
00:31:53,207 --> 00:31:55,262
something that you were the only one 

808
00:31:55,262 --> 00:31:57,373
dimension in this entire hearing . In 

809
00:31:57,373 --> 00:31:59,429
my judgment , one of the key moments 

810
00:31:59,429 --> 00:32:01,484
was the fleeing of President Ghani . 

811
00:32:01,484 --> 00:32:03,540
And that that is in fact what really 

812
00:32:03,540 --> 00:32:05,429
pulled the rug out from under the 

813
00:32:05,429 --> 00:32:07,429
military and demoralized the entire 

814
00:32:07,429 --> 00:32:09,596
government . That was really the , not 

815
00:32:09,596 --> 00:32:11,707
the beginning of the end . The end of 

816
00:32:11,707 --> 00:32:13,540
the end is that do you have some 

817
00:32:13,540 --> 00:32:15,484
thoughts on that ? I think when we 

818
00:32:15,484 --> 00:32:17,540
consider what happened to the afghan 

819
00:32:17,540 --> 00:32:19,707
military , you have to consider linked 

820
00:32:19,707 --> 00:32:21,818
completely linked to what happened to 

821
00:32:21,818 --> 00:32:24,040
the afghan government . And when you're 

822
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,207
president flees literally on no notice 

823
00:32:26,207 --> 00:32:26,010
in the middle of the day that has a 

824
00:32:26,010 --> 00:32:27,899
profoundly debilitating effect on 

825
00:32:27,899 --> 00:32:29,899
everything else . Now , events were 

826
00:32:29,899 --> 00:32:31,954
pretty far along on 15 august , so I 

827
00:32:31,954 --> 00:32:34,066
want to , I would I would note that , 

828
00:32:34,066 --> 00:32:36,121
But I do believe it is possible they 

829
00:32:36,121 --> 00:32:38,121
could have fought and held parts of 

830
00:32:38,121 --> 00:32:40,121
Kabul had the president's state , I 

831
00:32:40,121 --> 00:32:42,121
think that really demoralized those 

832
00:32:42,121 --> 00:32:44,177
remnants of Afghans . And there were 

833
00:32:44,177 --> 00:32:46,010
still considerable Afghan combat 

834
00:32:46,010 --> 00:32:48,232
formations around Kabul on 15 artists I 

835
00:32:48,232 --> 00:32:50,343
believe they were really disorganized 

836
00:32:50,343 --> 00:32:52,454
by that and led to the Taliban really 

837
00:32:52,454 --> 00:32:52,120
pushing in as fast as they wanted to go 

838
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,787
into the center of the city . 

839
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,830
Mhm I do want to point out for the 

840
00:32:58,830 --> 00:33:01,160
record that to my knowledge and memory , 

841
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,370
this committee never had a hearing on 

842
00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:05,047
the decision to withdraw from 

843
00:33:05,047 --> 00:33:08,250
Afghanistan in February of 2020 And it 

844
00:33:08,250 --> 00:33:10,194
now appears that would have been a 

845
00:33:10,194 --> 00:33:12,194
beneficial hearing because we could 

846
00:33:12,194 --> 00:33:14,361
have discussed all of these issues and 

847
00:33:14,361 --> 00:33:16,880
uh but we were already on the path for 

848
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,040
withdrawal and the withdrawal date . Uh 

849
00:33:20,050 --> 00:33:22,180
under that agreement was May one of 

850
00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:25,360
2021 . President biden extended that . 

851
00:33:26,140 --> 00:33:27,807
I don't know whether it was a 

852
00:33:27,807 --> 00:33:29,362
negotiation or some kind of 

853
00:33:29,362 --> 00:33:31,770
understanding until the end of of of 

854
00:33:31,770 --> 00:33:34,470
august General Milley uh questioning 

855
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:36,637
from Senator Cotton . You talked about 

856
00:33:36,637 --> 00:33:38,748
your military advice about leaving on 

857
00:33:38,748 --> 00:33:42,560
august 31st versus staying to try to 

858
00:33:42,940 --> 00:33:46,220
Help additional Americans leave ? Was 

859
00:33:46,220 --> 00:33:48,387
it the unanimous recommendation of the 

860
00:33:48,387 --> 00:33:50,720
joints chiefs that the August 31 date 

861
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,290
should be observed and if so , why was 

862
00:33:54,290 --> 00:33:57,570
that the military advice ? It was of 

863
00:33:57,570 --> 00:33:59,903
the Joint Chiefs plus General Mackenzie . 

864
00:33:59,903 --> 00:34:01,830
General Miller and General uh not 

865
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:03,663
miller , but Admiral paisley and 

866
00:34:03,663 --> 00:34:05,886
General Donahue . Uh The reason is risk 

867
00:34:05,886 --> 00:34:07,941
of forced rescue mission and risk to 

868
00:34:07,941 --> 00:34:10,052
the american citizens uh on the first 

869
00:34:10,052 --> 00:34:12,274
of september , we're going to go to war 

870
00:34:12,274 --> 00:34:11,920
again with the taliban of that , there 

871
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,410
was no doubt . Um and we're already uh 

872
00:34:15,420 --> 00:34:18,490
in conflict with ISIS . So At that 

873
00:34:18,490 --> 00:34:20,670
point in time , if we stayed past the 

874
00:34:20,670 --> 00:34:23,160
31st , which militarily is feasible , 

875
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,827
but it would have required an 

876
00:34:24,827 --> 00:34:26,882
additional commitment of significant 

877
00:34:26,882 --> 00:34:28,771
amounts of forces . Probably 18th 

878
00:34:28,771 --> 00:34:30,993
Airborne Corps , 15 , 20 , maybe 25,000 

879
00:34:30,993 --> 00:34:32,882
troops . We would have to receive 

880
00:34:32,882 --> 00:34:35,049
bargain . We had a clear Kabul of 6000 

881
00:34:35,049 --> 00:34:37,271
Taliban that were already in Kabul . Uh 

882
00:34:37,271 --> 00:34:36,370
that's what would have happened 

883
00:34:36,380 --> 00:34:38,510
beginning on the first . Uh and that 

884
00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:40,454
would have resulted in significant 

885
00:34:40,454 --> 00:34:42,399
casualties on the us side . And it 

886
00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:44,399
would have placed American citizens 

887
00:34:44,399 --> 00:34:46,870
that are still there at greater risk in 

888
00:34:46,870 --> 00:34:48,926
my professional view and the view of 

889
00:34:48,926 --> 00:34:51,148
all the other generals . So on the 25th 

890
00:34:51,148 --> 00:34:53,370
we recommended uh that we transition to 

891
00:34:53,370 --> 00:34:55,426
a diplomatic option beginning on the 

892
00:34:55,426 --> 00:34:57,703
31st . Thank you . General , thank you . 

893
00:34:57,703 --> 00:34:59,592
Uh Senator Tillis , please , john 

894
00:34:59,592 --> 00:35:02,250
Miller , you said that the the taliban 

895
00:35:02,250 --> 00:35:04,306
and not lived up to the terms of the 

896
00:35:04,306 --> 00:35:06,417
agreement . One would give me a rough 

897
00:35:06,417 --> 00:35:08,472
date of when they first breached the 

898
00:35:08,472 --> 00:35:10,694
terms of the agreement ? When they were 

899
00:35:10,694 --> 00:35:12,917
you said they were not living up to the 

900
00:35:12,917 --> 00:35:15,083
terms of the Doha agreement . What was 

901
00:35:15,083 --> 00:35:14,730
the first evidence that they were not 

902
00:35:14,730 --> 00:35:17,063
living up to the terms of the agreement . 

903
00:35:17,063 --> 00:35:19,740
The the the Memos signed 29 February . 

904
00:35:19,740 --> 00:35:21,810
So through this really the fighting 

905
00:35:21,810 --> 00:35:24,040
season of the summer 20 one of the 

906
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,096
requirements for example . Okay , so 

907
00:35:26,340 --> 00:35:28,340
more than a year ago . Absolutely . 

908
00:35:28,340 --> 00:35:31,540
Okay . Uh I don't buy the idea that 

909
00:35:31,540 --> 00:35:34,060
this president was bound by a decision 

910
00:35:34,060 --> 00:35:36,227
made by prior president . This was not 

911
00:35:36,227 --> 00:35:38,480
a treaty and it was clearly an 

912
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,740
agreement where the taliban were not 

913
00:35:40,740 --> 00:35:43,230
living up to it . This President , 

914
00:35:43,230 --> 00:35:45,286
president biden could have come in , 

915
00:35:45,286 --> 00:35:47,341
reasserted conditions and completely 

916
00:35:47,341 --> 00:35:49,452
changed the timeline . He's not bound 

917
00:35:49,452 --> 00:35:51,452
by the President's prior agreements 

918
00:35:51,452 --> 00:35:53,286
anymore than he was bound by the 

919
00:35:53,286 --> 00:35:55,510
president trump's decision to exit the 

920
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:57,710
Iran deal . Are the paris climate 

921
00:35:57,710 --> 00:35:59,700
accords . So that to me is false 

922
00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:03,540
narrative . I I also have to say that 

923
00:36:03,540 --> 00:36:07,100
this president moving forward with a 

924
00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:10,030
failed construct has cost american 

925
00:36:10,030 --> 00:36:12,650
lives has caused lives of North 

926
00:36:12,650 --> 00:36:15,380
Carolinians . We're working on a case 

927
00:36:15,380 --> 00:36:17,750
with an S . I . V . Holder who had a 

928
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:20,690
sister worked for a uh an NGO save the 

929
00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:24,490
Children and a father who was a uh in 

930
00:36:24,490 --> 00:36:27,610
the Afghan police force . And as we 

931
00:36:27,610 --> 00:36:29,777
were working to get through them , the 

932
00:36:29,777 --> 00:36:31,554
taliban taliban too . Dot oh is 

933
00:36:31,554 --> 00:36:33,777
everybody's ruthless is the one that we 

934
00:36:33,777 --> 00:36:35,832
replaced in 2000 and one . They sent 

935
00:36:35,832 --> 00:36:38,050
pictures of the slit throats of people 

936
00:36:38,050 --> 00:36:40,217
that we were working personally with . 

937
00:36:40,217 --> 00:36:42,450
They killed this pregnant woman . They 

938
00:36:42,450 --> 00:36:44,672
killed this police officer and they are 

939
00:36:44,672 --> 00:36:47,230
killing countless other people now that 

940
00:36:47,230 --> 00:36:49,410
we should have gotten out ? Secretary 

941
00:36:49,410 --> 00:36:52,110
Austin . I think we do a debt of 

942
00:36:52,110 --> 00:36:53,943
gratitude to the people that got 

943
00:36:53,943 --> 00:36:56,570
120,000 $24,000 people out . It was a 

944
00:36:56,570 --> 00:36:58,940
logistical success . But this is a 

945
00:36:58,940 --> 00:37:02,540
strategic failure . General 

946
00:37:02,540 --> 00:37:05,410
Mackenzie . Yeah . General Miller said 

947
00:37:05,410 --> 00:37:08,550
2500 . I've heard you and secretary and 

948
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,310
uh uh General Milley also say you 

949
00:37:11,310 --> 00:37:13,477
agreed with the idea of you personally 

950
00:37:13,477 --> 00:37:15,699
agree . Didn't necessarily say that you 

951
00:37:15,699 --> 00:37:17,866
recommend to the president of 2500 . I 

952
00:37:17,866 --> 00:37:19,754
understood from General Milley or 

953
00:37:19,754 --> 00:37:21,977
General Miller That there was a broader 

954
00:37:21,977 --> 00:37:24,140
context within that recommendation 

955
00:37:24,140 --> 00:37:27,230
there were 2500 fighters , us fighters . 

956
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:29,620
But I understand almost 5000 NATO 

957
00:37:29,620 --> 00:37:33,220
allies or 5000 others That we're 

958
00:37:33,220 --> 00:37:35,331
willing to remain on the ground . And 

959
00:37:35,331 --> 00:37:37,498
as General Miller said , keep the hand 

960
00:37:37,498 --> 00:37:39,664
on the shoulder of the Afghan national 

961
00:37:39,664 --> 00:37:41,831
forces so that we could have a counter 

962
00:37:41,831 --> 00:37:44,053
to the Taliban , is that correct ? That 

963
00:37:44,053 --> 00:37:46,276
it was bigger than that ? It was in the 

964
00:37:46,276 --> 00:37:48,164
probably the 7000 range senator . 

965
00:37:48,164 --> 00:37:50,331
You're correct . Our NATO allies would 

966
00:37:50,331 --> 00:37:52,498
have been on board from and also a CIA 

967
00:37:52,498 --> 00:37:54,720
presence with bases out there for human 

968
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:57,053
intelligence to help us be more precise , 

969
00:37:57,053 --> 00:37:56,750
more exquisite with the execution of 

970
00:37:56,750 --> 00:37:58,639
whatever operations we had on the 

971
00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:00,861
ground . That is correct . Okay , now I 

972
00:38:00,861 --> 00:38:03,083
know that you won't say that you advise 

973
00:38:03,083 --> 00:38:05,194
the president . But is it fair to say 

974
00:38:05,194 --> 00:38:07,910
that when General Miller Miller , he 

975
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:10,077
said that he advised all of you on his 

976
00:38:10,077 --> 00:38:12,299
recommendations ? It sounds like two of 

977
00:38:12,299 --> 00:38:14,521
the three of you agreed with it . Is it 

978
00:38:14,521 --> 00:38:16,354
at least fair to say that in the 

979
00:38:16,354 --> 00:38:18,243
interagency discussion that those 

980
00:38:18,243 --> 00:38:20,354
recommendations were made and that in 

981
00:38:20,354 --> 00:38:22,577
your best military advice it would have 

982
00:38:22,577 --> 00:38:24,188
kept the situation stable in 

983
00:38:24,188 --> 00:38:27,170
Afghanistan ? Well , I've stated 

984
00:38:27,170 --> 00:38:29,337
consistently that my position was , if 

985
00:38:29,337 --> 00:38:31,910
you go below 2500 , you're gonna look 

986
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:34,077
at a collapse of the Afghan military . 

987
00:38:34,077 --> 00:38:36,077
I didn't I did not foresee it to be 

988
00:38:36,077 --> 00:38:38,188
days . I thought it would take months 

989
00:38:38,188 --> 00:38:40,354
but the rest of the ecosystem would go 

990
00:38:40,354 --> 00:38:42,410
out with it to the NATO partners are 

991
00:38:42,410 --> 00:38:44,466
going to leave , the inter agency is 

992
00:38:44,466 --> 00:38:43,720
going to leave . And you believe the 

993
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:46,950
afghans by themselves , did any of you 

994
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,250
Uh embraced the notion that the 2500 

995
00:38:51,260 --> 00:38:53,427
plus several 1000 I think an estimated 

996
00:38:53,427 --> 00:38:55,880
5000 NATO allies and partners who were 

997
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,290
willing to stay there as well . Did any 

998
00:38:58,290 --> 00:39:01,800
of uh did interview agree with the 

999
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,022
President's assessment that if he acted 

1000
00:39:04,022 --> 00:39:06,078
on that recommendation that he would 

1001
00:39:06,078 --> 00:39:07,856
ultimately have to send tens of 

1002
00:39:07,856 --> 00:39:10,110
thousands more uh U . S . Service 

1003
00:39:10,110 --> 00:39:12,190
members to Afghanistan . That if we 

1004
00:39:12,190 --> 00:39:14,357
held that one that it would ultimately 

1005
00:39:14,357 --> 00:39:16,412
just delay the day where we would be 

1006
00:39:16,412 --> 00:39:19,980
back to 100,000 or 50,000 US forces in 

1007
00:39:19,980 --> 00:39:21,813
Afghanistan . So Senator , these 

1008
00:39:21,813 --> 00:39:23,924
discussions were occurring in january 

1009
00:39:23,924 --> 00:39:25,980
february march , their separate from 

1010
00:39:25,980 --> 00:39:28,202
the late august discussions . So I want 

1011
00:39:28,202 --> 00:39:28,160
to make , I want to make that point , 

1012
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,350
but in your in your best military 

1013
00:39:30,350 --> 00:39:32,890
judgment , do you believe that the 

1014
00:39:32,890 --> 00:39:35,540
recommendations that General Miller put 

1015
00:39:35,540 --> 00:39:38,380
forth With some 2500 and I think 

1016
00:39:38,380 --> 00:39:40,436
General Milley said maybe flex up to 

1017
00:39:40,436 --> 00:39:42,547
3500 . Do you believe that that would 

1018
00:39:42,547 --> 00:39:44,491
have sown the seeds for ultimately 

1019
00:39:44,491 --> 00:39:46,800
having to send tens of thousands of U . 

1020
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,133
S . Service members back to Afghanistan . 

1021
00:39:49,133 --> 00:39:51,310
As the president has said publicly , 

1022
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,376
Senator , I believe there was a risk 

1023
00:39:53,376 --> 00:39:55,487
you would incur increasing attacks by 

1024
00:39:55,487 --> 00:39:57,153
the taliban . That was a risk 

1025
00:39:57,153 --> 00:39:59,264
withholding at 2500 . That was a very 

1026
00:39:59,264 --> 00:40:01,542
clear risk . But I'll tell you Senator , 

1027
00:40:01,542 --> 00:40:03,431
I'm really humbled recently by my 

1028
00:40:03,431 --> 00:40:05,376
ability to deduce what the taliban 

1029
00:40:05,376 --> 00:40:07,598
would or would not do . So I think it's 

1030
00:40:07,598 --> 00:40:09,598
hard to know . Thank you . And next 

1031
00:40:09,598 --> 00:40:11,820
round I'll get onto the fate of the SCV 

1032
00:40:11,820 --> 00:40:11,350
holders and people that are stranded in 

1033
00:40:11,350 --> 00:40:13,406
Afghanistan . Thank you . Mr Chair , 

1034
00:40:13,406 --> 00:40:15,294
Thank you . Senator Tillis let me 

1035
00:40:15,294 --> 00:40:17,461
recognize Senator Warren and I'm going 

1036
00:40:17,461 --> 00:40:19,628
over for the vote . Senator rubio will 

1037
00:40:19,628 --> 00:40:21,794
preside in my absence . Senator Warren 

1038
00:40:21,794 --> 00:40:23,961
place . Thank you . Mr Chairman . So I 

1039
00:40:23,961 --> 00:40:26,830
want to begin by zooming out because It 

1040
00:40:26,830 --> 00:40:29,052
is not possible to understand our final 

1041
00:40:29,052 --> 00:40:31,170
months in Afghanistan without viewing 

1042
00:40:31,170 --> 00:40:33,240
them in the context of the 20 years 

1043
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:35,780
that led up to them . Anyone who says 

1044
00:40:35,790 --> 00:40:37,846
the last few months were a failure , 

1045
00:40:37,846 --> 00:40:40,012
but everything before that was great , 

1046
00:40:40,012 --> 00:40:43,010
clearly hasn't been paying attention In 

1047
00:40:43,010 --> 00:40:45,177
2015 , the Taliban conquered its first 

1048
00:40:45,177 --> 00:40:49,100
province since 2001 By October 

1049
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:51,330
2018 , the Afghan government controlled 

1050
00:40:51,330 --> 00:40:55,020
only 54% of the 407 

1051
00:40:55,020 --> 00:40:58,170
districts . And by May 2020 , the 

1052
00:40:58,170 --> 00:41:00,350
Afghan government control less than a 

1053
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,930
third of Afghans . 407 districts . 

1054
00:41:03,940 --> 00:41:07,200
We poured money and support and air 

1055
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,640
cover and the Afghan government 

1056
00:41:09,710 --> 00:41:12,980
continue to fail . By 2021 , it was 

1057
00:41:12,980 --> 00:41:15,560
clear that 2500 troops could not 

1058
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,790
successfully prop up a government that 

1059
00:41:17,790 --> 00:41:20,090
had been losing ground and support to 

1060
00:41:20,090 --> 00:41:23,270
the Taliban for years . Secretary 

1061
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,620
Austin , I understand that you advise 

1062
00:41:25,620 --> 00:41:27,850
the President biden to stay in 

1063
00:41:27,850 --> 00:41:31,220
Afghanistan , but as you acknowledge , 

1064
00:41:31,230 --> 00:41:33,790
staying or withdrawing is a decision 

1065
00:41:33,790 --> 00:41:36,420
for the President alone . So I want to 

1066
00:41:36,420 --> 00:41:39,840
focus on what happened next . Once 

1067
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,160
President biden made the decision to 

1068
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,550
have US forces leave the country who 

1069
00:41:45,550 --> 00:41:47,330
designed the evacuation . 

1070
00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:54,860
Well , senator again . Um I want 

1071
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:58,700
uh address what I advised that the 

1072
00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:00,960
advice I gave the President , I would 

1073
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,330
just say that in his his calculus , uh 

1074
00:42:04,340 --> 00:42:07,840
this was not risk free and the Taliban , 

1075
00:42:07,850 --> 00:42:09,930
as we said earlier in this in this 

1076
00:42:09,930 --> 00:42:12,450
hearing , uh we're committed to 

1077
00:42:12,460 --> 00:42:14,680
recommence sing their operations 

1078
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,110
against our forces . His assessment was 

1079
00:42:18,110 --> 00:42:20,140
that in order to sustain that and 

1080
00:42:20,140 --> 00:42:22,830
continue to do things uh that that 

1081
00:42:22,830 --> 00:42:25,470
benefited the afghans . Uh that would 

1082
00:42:25,470 --> 00:42:27,692
require at some point that he increased 

1083
00:42:27,692 --> 00:42:30,680
the presence , our presence there in 

1084
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,710
Afghanistan . So once he made the 

1085
00:42:33,710 --> 00:42:36,030
decision , uh then of course from a 

1086
00:42:36,030 --> 00:42:39,140
military perspective , uh in terms of 

1087
00:42:39,140 --> 00:42:41,960
the retrograde of the people and the 

1088
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,670
equipment , uh , that was that planning 

1089
00:42:44,670 --> 00:42:47,940
was done uh , by central command and 

1090
00:42:47,940 --> 00:42:50,550
certainly principally by by General 

1091
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:53,580
Miller , very detailed planning . And 

1092
00:42:53,580 --> 00:42:55,747
uh , and then we came back and briefed 

1093
00:42:55,747 --> 00:42:57,850
the entire interagency on on the 

1094
00:42:57,850 --> 00:42:59,920
details of that plan . Okay , so the 

1095
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,680
military planned the evacuation . Did 

1096
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,510
President biden follow your advice on 

1097
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,820
executing on the evacuation plan ? 

1098
00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:13,390
He did did President biden give you all 

1099
00:43:13,390 --> 00:43:17,240
the resources that you needed ? From 

1100
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:19,920
my view , he did , did President biden 

1101
00:43:19,930 --> 00:43:22,740
ignore your advice on the evacuation at 

1102
00:43:22,750 --> 00:43:26,740
any point ? No 

1103
00:43:26,740 --> 00:43:29,230
center . He did not . Did he refuse any 

1104
00:43:29,230 --> 00:43:32,260
request for anything that you needed or 

1105
00:43:32,270 --> 00:43:35,620
ask for ? No . So the President 

1106
00:43:35,620 --> 00:43:37,850
followed the advice of his military 

1107
00:43:37,850 --> 00:43:40,460
advisers in planning and executing this 

1108
00:43:40,460 --> 00:43:43,120
withdrawal as we've already established 

1109
00:43:43,500 --> 00:43:45,111
the seeds for our failure in 

1110
00:43:45,111 --> 00:43:47,430
Afghanistan were planted many many 

1111
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:49,597
years ago . So let me ask you one more 

1112
00:43:49,597 --> 00:43:52,370
question , Secretary Austin , knowing 

1113
00:43:52,370 --> 00:43:55,330
what you know , now , if we had stayed 

1114
00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:58,070
in Afghanistan for another year , would 

1115
00:43:58,070 --> 00:44:00,292
it have made a fundamental difference ? 

1116
00:44:01,590 --> 00:44:04,150
Again , it depends on what size you 

1117
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:06,080
remain in that and and what your 

1118
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,302
objectives are . Uh , there are a range 

1119
00:44:08,302 --> 00:44:11,300
of possibilities . But uh , but if you 

1120
00:44:11,300 --> 00:44:14,220
stay there at 20 , at the uh 

1121
00:44:14,990 --> 00:44:17,610
dead Force Posture of 2500 . 

1122
00:44:18,190 --> 00:44:20,357
Certainly you would be in a fight with 

1123
00:44:20,357 --> 00:44:22,820
the Taliban and you'd have to reinforce 

1124
00:44:22,820 --> 00:44:25,090
yourself . I appreciate you're looking 

1125
00:44:25,090 --> 00:44:27,201
at it as a fighter . But I would also 

1126
00:44:27,201 --> 00:44:29,410
add one more year of propping up a 

1127
00:44:29,410 --> 00:44:32,020
corrupt government and an army that 

1128
00:44:32,020 --> 00:44:34,242
wouldn't fight on its own was not going 

1129
00:44:34,242 --> 00:44:36,530
to give us a different outcome and 

1130
00:44:36,540 --> 00:44:38,762
anyone who thinks differently is either 

1131
00:44:38,762 --> 00:44:40,873
filling himself or trying to fool the 

1132
00:44:40,873 --> 00:44:43,130
rest of us . I believe President biden 

1133
00:44:43,130 --> 00:44:46,190
had it . Exactly right withdrawing was 

1134
00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:48,740
long overdue . The withdrawal was 

1135
00:44:48,740 --> 00:44:50,962
conducted in accordance with the advice 

1136
00:44:50,962 --> 00:44:53,860
of his military advisers who planned 

1137
00:44:53,870 --> 00:44:56,340
and executed every step of this 

1138
00:44:56,340 --> 00:44:58,800
withdrawal . Thank you . Mr Chairman 

1139
00:44:59,310 --> 00:45:01,390
madam . Senator Warner . Senator 

1140
00:45:01,390 --> 00:45:03,557
Sullivan you're recognized . Thank you 

1141
00:45:03,557 --> 00:45:05,279
madam . Chair gentlemen . This 

1142
00:45:05,279 --> 00:45:07,001
committee recognizes that your 

1143
00:45:07,001 --> 00:45:09,057
constitutional duty is to follow the 

1144
00:45:09,057 --> 00:45:11,140
lawful orders of the President or 

1145
00:45:11,140 --> 00:45:13,670
resign if you don't agree with his 

1146
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:16,770
decisions and policies like Secretary 

1147
00:45:16,780 --> 00:45:19,580
Madison . But I want to emphasize you 

1148
00:45:19,580 --> 00:45:22,100
do not have a duty constitutional or 

1149
00:45:22,110 --> 00:45:24,980
otherwise To cover for the commander in 

1150
00:45:24,980 --> 00:45:28,030
chief when he is not telling the truth 

1151
00:45:28,030 --> 00:45:30,086
to the American people with that . I 

1152
00:45:30,086 --> 00:45:32,252
have a few questions that I'd like you 

1153
00:45:32,252 --> 00:45:34,363
to keep short concise answers to . On 

1154
00:45:34,363 --> 00:45:37,130
August 18 in a media interview to the 

1155
00:45:37,130 --> 00:45:39,390
American people , the president said 

1156
00:45:39,390 --> 00:45:41,830
that none of his military advisers told 

1157
00:45:41,830 --> 00:45:44,890
him that he should keep us forces in 

1158
00:45:44,890 --> 00:45:47,112
Afghanistan . General Milley . That was 

1159
00:45:47,112 --> 00:45:49,057
a false statement by the President 

1160
00:45:49,057 --> 00:45:52,170
United States , was it not ? I didn't 

1161
00:45:52,180 --> 00:45:54,402
even see the statement to tell you that 

1162
00:45:54,402 --> 00:45:56,569
I'm reading you a truthful statement . 

1163
00:45:56,569 --> 00:45:59,580
Um That was that was a false statement . 

1164
00:45:59,580 --> 00:46:02,020
Yeah , I'm not looking , look I don't 

1165
00:46:02,020 --> 00:46:04,131
have a lot of time . Was that a false 

1166
00:46:04,131 --> 00:46:06,131
statement to the american ? I'm not 

1167
00:46:06,131 --> 00:46:08,187
going to categorize the statement of 

1168
00:46:08,187 --> 00:46:07,980
the President , United States . General 

1169
00:46:07,980 --> 00:46:10,258
Mackenzie . Was that a false statement ? 

1170
00:46:10,258 --> 00:46:11,980
The President said none of his 

1171
00:46:11,980 --> 00:46:14,030
commanders said that he should keep 

1172
00:46:14,030 --> 00:46:16,060
troops in Afghanistan . Was that a 

1173
00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:18,393
false statement by the President States ? 

1174
00:46:18,393 --> 00:46:20,338
Remember you do not have a duty to 

1175
00:46:20,338 --> 00:46:22,449
cover for the President when he's not 

1176
00:46:22,449 --> 00:46:24,504
telling the truth ? Was that a false 

1177
00:46:24,504 --> 00:46:26,560
statement or not ? I've given you my 

1178
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:26,030
opinion on the matter . I've given you 

1179
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,262
my judgment on it . I think we all know 

1180
00:46:28,262 --> 00:46:30,151
it was a false statement . Okay , 

1181
00:46:30,151 --> 00:46:32,390
that's number one . The President also 

1182
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:34,446
said if there is an american citizen 

1183
00:46:34,450 --> 00:46:36,283
left behind in Afghanistan , the 

1184
00:46:36,283 --> 00:46:38,228
military is not , is going to stay 

1185
00:46:38,228 --> 00:46:40,506
until we get them out . General Milley , 

1186
00:46:40,506 --> 00:46:42,728
Was that statement ? Did that statement 

1187
00:46:42,728 --> 00:46:44,894
turned out to be true or untrue by the 

1188
00:46:44,894 --> 00:46:47,228
President ? I think that was the intent . 

1189
00:46:47,228 --> 00:46:49,228
But we gave him a recommendation on 

1190
00:46:49,228 --> 00:46:51,450
25th of August to terminate the mission 

1191
00:46:51,450 --> 00:46:53,783
on the 31st of all statement was untrue . 

1192
00:46:53,783 --> 00:46:55,617
Let me make another . Let me ask 

1193
00:46:55,617 --> 00:46:57,617
another question . General Milley . 

1194
00:46:57,617 --> 00:46:59,506
General Mackenzie , the President 

1195
00:46:59,506 --> 00:47:01,561
around the same time said , quote Al 

1196
00:47:01,561 --> 00:47:03,617
Qaeda was gone from Afghanistan told 

1197
00:47:03,617 --> 00:47:05,783
the american people that was that true 

1198
00:47:05,783 --> 00:47:07,839
or not true . Was Al Qaeda gone from 

1199
00:47:07,839 --> 00:47:09,950
Afghanistan in mid august true or not 

1200
00:47:09,950 --> 00:47:12,350
true . Al Qaeda is still in Afghanistan ? 

1201
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,582
They were there in mid august . Uh They 

1202
00:47:14,582 --> 00:47:16,416
have been severely disrupted and 

1203
00:47:16,416 --> 00:47:18,582
attrited over many , many years . They 

1204
00:47:18,582 --> 00:47:20,527
are not . So it wasn't true Jerold 

1205
00:47:20,527 --> 00:47:22,638
Mackenzie . Was that true or not ? Al 

1206
00:47:22,638 --> 00:47:24,749
Qaeda was present in Afghanistan . So 

1207
00:47:24,749 --> 00:47:26,916
it wasn't true . Let me make one final 

1208
00:47:26,916 --> 00:47:29,082
one . The president called this entire 

1209
00:47:29,082 --> 00:47:31,193
retrograde operation an extraordinary 

1210
00:47:31,193 --> 00:47:33,027
success . General Miller and his 

1211
00:47:33,027 --> 00:47:35,360
testimony disagreed with that assertion . 

1212
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,560
General Milley was this Afghanistan 

1213
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,727
retrograde operation and extraordinary 

1214
00:47:39,727 --> 00:47:41,950
success . There's two operations 

1215
00:47:41,950 --> 00:47:44,450
Senator just yes or no . I have a lot 

1216
00:47:44,450 --> 00:47:45,950
of questions . Was this an 

1217
00:47:45,950 --> 00:47:48,117
extraordinary success Senator with all 

1218
00:47:48,117 --> 00:47:50,172
due respect . There's two operations 

1219
00:47:50,172 --> 00:47:52,394
does the retrograde which Miller was in 

1220
00:47:52,394 --> 00:47:54,394
charge of and there's the neo which 

1221
00:47:54,394 --> 00:47:56,617
centcom was in charge of the retrograde 

1222
00:47:56,617 --> 00:48:00,230
was executed and ended by mid july uh 

1223
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:02,240
with a residual force to defend the 

1224
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:04,184
embassy . The neo . You and I have 

1225
00:48:04,184 --> 00:48:06,296
discussed this , do you would you use 

1226
00:48:06,296 --> 00:48:08,462
the term extraordinary success for the 

1227
00:48:08,462 --> 00:48:11,210
for what took place in august in 

1228
00:48:11,210 --> 00:48:13,377
Afghanistan . That's the non combatant 

1229
00:48:13,377 --> 00:48:15,599
evacuation and I think one of the other 

1230
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:17,710
senators said it very well , it was a 

1231
00:48:17,710 --> 00:48:19,654
logistical success but a strategic 

1232
00:48:19,654 --> 00:48:21,432
value and I think those are two 

1233
00:48:21,432 --> 00:48:23,488
different terms . I think here's the 

1234
00:48:23,488 --> 00:48:25,710
problem . I think the whole world knows 

1235
00:48:25,710 --> 00:48:27,654
this is the cover of the economist 

1236
00:48:27,654 --> 00:48:30,890
magazine biden's debacle that 

1237
00:48:31,370 --> 00:48:34,180
had stories in it . Articles in it 

1238
00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:37,220
called the fiasco in Afghanistan is a 

1239
00:48:37,220 --> 00:48:39,387
huge and unnecessary blow to America's 

1240
00:48:39,387 --> 00:48:41,630
standing . That's one article , joe 

1241
00:48:41,630 --> 00:48:43,690
biden blames everybody else . That's 

1242
00:48:43,690 --> 00:48:45,990
another article . China sees America 

1243
00:48:45,990 --> 00:48:49,600
humbled . That's another article And 

1244
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,950
gentlemen , the problem here , these 

1245
00:48:51,950 --> 00:48:54,061
are not marginal misstatements by the 

1246
00:48:54,061 --> 00:48:56,006
president to the american people . 

1247
00:48:56,006 --> 00:48:59,060
These are dramatic , obvious falsehoods 

1248
00:48:59,070 --> 00:49:00,903
that go to the very heart of the 

1249
00:49:00,903 --> 00:49:03,470
foreign policy fiasco we have all 

1250
00:49:03,470 --> 00:49:05,526
witnessed . These are life and death 

1251
00:49:05,770 --> 00:49:07,826
deceptions that the president of the 

1252
00:49:07,826 --> 00:49:09,992
United States told the american people 

1253
00:49:10,340 --> 00:49:12,750
I have one final question . I might 

1254
00:49:12,750 --> 00:49:14,806
leave it because it's a long one for 

1255
00:49:14,806 --> 00:49:17,150
the follow up . But here's here's the 

1256
00:49:17,150 --> 00:49:19,440
anger . I've never seen my constituents 

1257
00:49:19,730 --> 00:49:22,670
more angry about an issue than this and 

1258
00:49:22,670 --> 00:49:25,140
it's the combination of everybody 

1259
00:49:25,140 --> 00:49:28,040
knowing that this is a debacle and yet 

1260
00:49:28,050 --> 00:49:29,910
people defending it as a quote , 

1261
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,087
extraordinary success . And here's the 

1262
00:49:32,087 --> 00:49:35,070
biggest no accountability , no 

1263
00:49:35,070 --> 00:49:37,480
accountability . You gentlemen have 

1264
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,550
spent your lives and I completely 

1265
00:49:40,550 --> 00:49:43,670
respected troops in combat . You've 

1266
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:45,614
been in combat , you've had troops 

1267
00:49:45,614 --> 00:49:47,726
under your command killed in action . 

1268
00:49:47,726 --> 00:49:49,920
You have been part of an institution 

1269
00:49:50,100 --> 00:49:53,650
where accountability is so critical and 

1270
00:49:53,650 --> 00:49:55,872
the american people respect that up and 

1271
00:49:55,872 --> 00:49:57,706
down the chain . Where there are 

1272
00:49:57,706 --> 00:50:00,720
instances commanders get relieved up 

1273
00:50:00,730 --> 00:50:03,250
and down the chain . We see it the 

1274
00:50:03,250 --> 00:50:05,583
McCain instant . The Fitzgerald instant , 

1275
00:50:05,583 --> 00:50:07,528
the A . V incident with the Marine 

1276
00:50:07,528 --> 00:50:09,417
Corps , three star four star flag 

1277
00:50:09,417 --> 00:50:12,390
officers . All relieved of duty . 

1278
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,340
But on this matter , on the biggest 

1279
00:50:16,340 --> 00:50:18,007
national security fiasco in a 

1280
00:50:18,007 --> 00:50:19,840
generation . There has been zero 

1281
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,310
accountability , no responsibility from 

1282
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,050
anybody . So I will ask this final 

1283
00:50:27,050 --> 00:50:29,490
question of all of you . Senator Cotton 

1284
00:50:29,490 --> 00:50:33,040
talked about If you submit the 

1285
00:50:33,050 --> 00:50:35,161
could you submit your question record 

1286
00:50:35,161 --> 00:50:37,383
please ? We're trying to keep to a five 

1287
00:50:37,383 --> 00:50:39,780
minutes questioning around . You can 

1288
00:50:39,780 --> 00:50:41,891
ask the question in your second round 

1289
00:50:41,891 --> 00:50:44,900
if you'd like . Thank you Senator 

1290
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:45,580
Peters , 

1291
00:50:50,660 --> 00:50:53,470
Thank you Madam Chair and thank you to 

1292
00:50:53,690 --> 00:50:55,634
each and every one of you for your 

1293
00:50:55,634 --> 00:50:57,950
service or country . When we returned 

1294
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,590
to some of the comments made by Senator 

1295
00:51:00,590 --> 00:51:03,500
Warner Warren and looking at over the 

1296
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:05,500
last 20 years , I think if we're if 

1297
00:51:05,500 --> 00:51:07,389
ever we're gonna have a strategic 

1298
00:51:07,389 --> 00:51:09,111
assessment Of what happened in 

1299
00:51:09,111 --> 00:51:11,111
Afghanistan . It's important in any 

1300
00:51:11,111 --> 00:51:13,111
kind of strategic assessment is not 

1301
00:51:13,111 --> 00:51:15,167
just to look at the present , but to 

1302
00:51:15,167 --> 00:51:17,389
look at the past and look at the future 

1303
00:51:17,389 --> 00:51:19,611
and look at all three of those elements 

1304
00:51:19,611 --> 00:51:21,944
as we're making that kind of assessment . 

1305
00:51:21,944 --> 00:51:21,470
And if we're going to do that , we have 

1306
00:51:21,470 --> 00:51:24,410
to look over the last 20 years that we 

1307
00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:26,940
were in Afghanistan And we're going to 

1308
00:51:26,940 --> 00:51:28,773
have to have a pretty hard nosed 

1309
00:51:28,773 --> 00:51:30,996
assessment of that General Milley . You 

1310
00:51:30,996 --> 00:51:33,218
mentioned that strategic decisions have 

1311
00:51:33,218 --> 00:51:35,329
consequences . And there are a lot of 

1312
00:51:35,329 --> 00:51:37,496
lessons to be learned over 20 years of 

1313
00:51:37,496 --> 00:51:39,662
our involvement in Afghanistan . I sat 

1314
00:51:39,662 --> 00:51:41,884
at this table here . The armed services 

1315
00:51:41,884 --> 00:51:44,107
for for many years serving in the house 

1316
00:51:44,107 --> 00:51:46,329
before had had an opportunity to travel 

1317
00:51:46,329 --> 00:51:48,051
to Afghanistan and a couple of 

1318
00:51:48,051 --> 00:51:50,273
occasions and whatever we've ever asked 

1319
00:51:50,273 --> 00:51:52,496
our military leaders . So the situation 

1320
00:51:52,496 --> 00:51:54,773
in Afghanistan , we often heard , well , 

1321
00:51:54,773 --> 00:51:56,884
it's a stalemate right now . But this 

1322
00:51:56,884 --> 00:51:59,218
year coming up is going to be different . 

1323
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:02,071
This year will be different . I heard 

1324
00:52:02,071 --> 00:52:04,071
that year after year . This year is 

1325
00:52:04,071 --> 00:52:06,182
going to be different . Yeah , I know 

1326
00:52:06,182 --> 00:52:05,430
we were in a stalemate , but this year 

1327
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:07,597
is going to be different . There's one 

1328
00:52:07,597 --> 00:52:09,541
commentator Has said and Secretary 

1329
00:52:09,541 --> 00:52:11,819
Austin , I want you to comment on this . 

1330
00:52:11,819 --> 00:52:13,874
He said that we didn't really have a 

1331
00:52:13,874 --> 00:52:16,130
20-year war in Afghanistan . We had 21 

1332
00:52:16,130 --> 00:52:18,950
year wars in Afghanistan . How would 

1333
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:21,950
you respond to that ? I would certainly 

1334
00:52:21,950 --> 00:52:24,172
say center , there's something to think 

1335
00:52:24,172 --> 00:52:26,339
about . You know , you've heard me say 

1336
00:52:26,339 --> 00:52:28,870
in my opening comments . Yeah , we have 

1337
00:52:28,870 --> 00:52:31,092
to ask ourselves some tough questions . 

1338
00:52:31,092 --> 00:52:33,259
Did we have the right strategy ? Do we 

1339
00:52:33,259 --> 00:52:35,314
have too many strategies ? And so if 

1340
00:52:35,314 --> 00:52:37,480
you're re cooking or reshaping that 

1341
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,170
strategy every year , one year at a 

1342
00:52:40,170 --> 00:52:42,490
time , then that uh , then that has 

1343
00:52:42,490 --> 00:52:44,712
consequences . So I think that's that's 

1344
00:52:44,712 --> 00:52:47,046
something we got to go back and look at . 

1345
00:52:47,046 --> 00:52:49,212
And we also have to look at the impact 

1346
00:52:49,212 --> 00:52:52,390
the effect of the corruption that was 

1347
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:54,980
any environment , weak leadership 

1348
00:52:54,990 --> 00:52:57,101
changes in leadership and in a number 

1349
00:52:57,101 --> 00:53:00,520
of factors . Well , I want to I want to 

1350
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,464
build on that because I think it's 

1351
00:53:02,464 --> 00:53:04,520
important . Secretary Allison , uh , 

1352
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,742
for example , General Milley , when you 

1353
00:53:06,742 --> 00:53:06,080
commanded NATO ground forces in 

1354
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,080
Afghanistan eight years ago , You 

1355
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,470
called 2013 a critical year for the 

1356
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:12,581
Afghan security forces because it was 

1357
00:53:12,581 --> 00:53:14,248
the first time they had taken 

1358
00:53:14,248 --> 00:53:16,137
responsibility for their security 

1359
00:53:16,137 --> 00:53:18,359
across the country . Secretary Austin , 

1360
00:53:18,359 --> 00:53:20,581
you offered similar assessments in 2015 

1361
00:53:20,581 --> 00:53:22,692
and 2016 during testimony before this 

1362
00:53:22,692 --> 00:53:24,748
committee as centcom commander , you 

1363
00:53:24,748 --> 00:53:28,300
emphasized that there were 326,000 NSF 

1364
00:53:28,310 --> 00:53:30,254
forces and they were ready to lead 

1365
00:53:30,254 --> 00:53:34,050
security operations . Um and I'll just 

1366
00:53:34,050 --> 00:53:36,500
say uh from boston expiry , especially 

1367
00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:39,210
when I was in Afghanistan , the input 

1368
00:53:39,210 --> 00:53:41,850
that I got from our commanders was that 

1369
00:53:41,850 --> 00:53:43,906
this year is going to be different . 

1370
00:53:43,906 --> 00:53:45,906
We're going to be able to do things 

1371
00:53:45,906 --> 00:53:47,683
better . But I got a completely 

1372
00:53:47,683 --> 00:53:49,906
different assessment when I went to the 

1373
00:53:49,906 --> 00:53:52,017
mess hall and eight with the soldiers 

1374
00:53:52,017 --> 00:53:51,880
and the marines and the folks on the 

1375
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,160
ground who said , I don't trust these 

1376
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,520
folks that were with , I don't know if 

1377
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,464
they're going to fight back , They 

1378
00:53:58,464 --> 00:54:00,464
don't even show up , they get their 

1379
00:54:00,464 --> 00:54:02,687
paycheck , but they don't show up . And 

1380
00:54:02,687 --> 00:54:04,853
now there may have been some instances 

1381
00:54:04,853 --> 00:54:06,798
where they've performed and I know 

1382
00:54:06,798 --> 00:54:06,780
you've highlighted some of those . But 

1383
00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:09,012
my question from a strategic standpoint 

1384
00:54:09,012 --> 00:54:11,123
is did we just become fixated perhaps 

1385
00:54:11,123 --> 00:54:13,234
on some tactical performance from our 

1386
00:54:13,234 --> 00:54:15,234
forces , their forces and forget to 

1387
00:54:15,234 --> 00:54:17,530
measure the Afghan security forces 

1388
00:54:17,540 --> 00:54:19,740
actual institutional health as a 

1389
00:54:19,740 --> 00:54:22,080
fighting force that could sustain a 

1390
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,070
fight even though they're in an 

1391
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,340
incredibly weak economy and a whole 

1392
00:54:26,340 --> 00:54:28,451
host of complicated cultural issues . 

1393
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,140
Clearly , questions that we we have to 

1394
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:34,950
drill deep on at one point , as you 

1395
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:37,700
know , senator , we had a number of 

1396
00:54:37,700 --> 00:54:41,100
advisors down to uh fairly low levels 

1397
00:54:41,110 --> 00:54:43,054
as we began to lift the numbers of 

1398
00:54:43,054 --> 00:54:45,430
advisors that we had there and and and 

1399
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:49,440
scale back on on the people that we had 

1400
00:54:49,450 --> 00:54:52,270
uh interfacing with the afghans on a 

1401
00:54:52,270 --> 00:54:54,400
daily basis . We began to lose that 

1402
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,140
fingertip feel . And so our 

1403
00:54:58,140 --> 00:55:01,520
ability to assess with some degree of 

1404
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:05,440
certainty uh continue to uh uh 

1405
00:55:05,450 --> 00:55:09,050
to erode the smaller that we got . My 

1406
00:55:09,050 --> 00:55:11,050
sense is that that was what we were 

1407
00:55:11,050 --> 00:55:13,161
hearing for years . It wasn't just at 

1408
00:55:13,161 --> 00:55:14,994
the end that this was this is an 

1409
00:55:14,994 --> 00:55:17,170
endemic problem for decade , over a 

1410
00:55:17,170 --> 00:55:19,960
decade . So hopefully we will have the 

1411
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,904
opportunity to do that . That's my 

1412
00:55:21,904 --> 00:55:23,904
final question . Secretary Office , 

1413
00:55:23,904 --> 00:55:25,904
what are we actually doing to learn 

1414
00:55:25,904 --> 00:55:28,016
from the conclusion of these military 

1415
00:55:28,016 --> 00:55:29,849
operations , particularly from a 

1416
00:55:29,849 --> 00:55:31,904
strategic assessment point of view . 

1417
00:55:31,904 --> 00:55:31,780
When it comes to end of conflict 

1418
00:55:31,780 --> 00:55:33,613
transition , we're going to have 

1419
00:55:33,613 --> 00:55:35,891
potentially other operations like this , 

1420
00:55:35,891 --> 00:55:38,180
even in great power competition . Yeah . 

1421
00:55:38,190 --> 00:55:40,246
So as we always do , Senator , we're 

1422
00:55:40,246 --> 00:55:42,780
gonna Take a hard look at ourselves in 

1423
00:55:42,780 --> 00:55:45,030
terms of , you know , what we did over 

1424
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:47,197
the last 20 years . What worked , what 

1425
00:55:47,197 --> 00:55:49,363
didn't work ? And we're going to learn 

1426
00:55:49,363 --> 00:55:51,586
from those lessons and uh and make sure 

1427
00:55:51,586 --> 00:55:53,474
that we incorporate that into our 

1428
00:55:53,474 --> 00:55:56,470
planning and our 

1429
00:55:56,940 --> 00:55:59,460
strategic assessment going forward . 

1430
00:56:00,130 --> 00:56:02,470
Thank you . Thank you very much . 

1431
00:56:02,470 --> 00:56:04,660
Senator Peters , Senator Cramer , 

1432
00:56:04,660 --> 00:56:06,620
please , Thank you Mr . Chairman , 

1433
00:56:06,620 --> 00:56:08,842
thank all three of you for your service 

1434
00:56:08,842 --> 00:56:11,009
and for being here ? And God bless the 

1435
00:56:11,009 --> 00:56:12,953
men and women under your command . 

1436
00:56:12,953 --> 00:56:15,176
General Mackenzie . Is it true that U . 

1437
00:56:15,176 --> 00:56:17,398
S . Forces had the ISIS case cell under 

1438
00:56:17,398 --> 00:56:19,398
surveillance prior to the august 26 

1439
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,329
could have struck them before the 

1440
00:56:21,329 --> 00:56:23,450
deadly terrorist attacks at Kabul but 

1441
00:56:23,450 --> 00:56:25,728
were not given the authority to strike . 

1442
00:56:25,728 --> 00:56:28,030
No , that's not true . You know , I 

1443
00:56:28,030 --> 00:56:30,252
noticed that the president was quick to 

1444
00:56:30,252 --> 00:56:32,197
take a victory lap after the first 

1445
00:56:32,197 --> 00:56:34,252
strike and push this tough guy image 

1446
00:56:34,252 --> 00:56:36,474
he's so famous for . He once threatened 

1447
00:56:36,474 --> 00:56:39,660
to have union bosses beat me up . Uh he 

1448
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:41,837
said things like just do it if we find 

1449
00:56:41,837 --> 00:56:43,837
more will strike them . Of course , 

1450
00:56:43,837 --> 00:56:46,003
this was after he said of the ISIS K . 

1451
00:56:46,003 --> 00:56:47,948
Leaders we will hunt you down . He 

1452
00:56:47,948 --> 00:56:50,059
talks tough , he's gonna go get him . 

1453
00:56:50,130 --> 00:56:52,463
But also knows he's been equally silent , 

1454
00:56:52,630 --> 00:56:54,852
taking no responsibility for the strike 

1455
00:56:54,852 --> 00:56:56,741
on innocent civilians , including 

1456
00:56:56,741 --> 00:56:58,963
Children . That was in part caused by , 

1457
00:56:58,963 --> 00:57:01,160
in my view is is insecure need to 

1458
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,510
appear tough . He just let you take the 

1459
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:05,760
blame . General Mackenzie . But what I 

1460
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,850
really worry about is that is the 

1461
00:57:08,850 --> 00:57:11,290
aircrews who actually were pressured 

1462
00:57:11,290 --> 00:57:13,457
into pulling the trigger that terrible 

1463
00:57:13,457 --> 00:57:16,270
day , Secretary Austin as you know , 

1464
00:57:16,270 --> 00:57:18,270
the North Dakota Air National Guard 

1465
00:57:18,270 --> 00:57:20,640
operates reapers around the world and I 

1466
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,750
know what kind of pressure those air 

1467
00:57:22,750 --> 00:57:25,190
crews are under and the level of 

1468
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,367
responsibility they feel to accomplish 

1469
00:57:27,367 --> 00:57:30,030
their their emissions properly . And 

1470
00:57:30,030 --> 00:57:32,197
I'm worried that whoever was operating 

1471
00:57:32,197 --> 00:57:34,252
the aircraft involved in this in the 

1472
00:57:34,252 --> 00:57:37,400
Tragic 29th August Strike was set up to 

1473
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,622
fail by an administration that wanted a 

1474
00:57:39,622 --> 00:57:41,844
political victory more than they wanted 

1475
00:57:41,844 --> 00:57:44,050
an American victory . Have you reached 

1476
00:57:44,050 --> 00:57:46,480
out to the aircrew to make sure that 

1477
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,536
they understand it's not their fault 

1478
00:57:48,536 --> 00:57:50,960
that there are seven dead Children . I 

1479
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,240
have not senator , as you probably know , 

1480
00:57:54,250 --> 00:57:58,080
I have directed a three star review 

1481
00:57:58,090 --> 00:58:00,312
of of this incident . General Mackenzie 

1482
00:58:00,312 --> 00:58:02,700
did an initial investigation and I've 

1483
00:58:02,700 --> 00:58:05,010
directed a three star review . Uh , and 

1484
00:58:05,010 --> 00:58:08,940
so I won't make any comments . You know , 

1485
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,740
There certainly seemed to be a lot of 

1486
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:14,060
indications that a terrorist event was 

1487
00:58:14,070 --> 00:58:16,237
likely , if not imminent leading up to 

1488
00:58:16,237 --> 00:58:18,680
ISISK bombing on the 26th . We're our 

1489
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,791
military members still , why were our 

1490
00:58:20,791 --> 00:58:22,847
military members still exposed after 

1491
00:58:22,847 --> 00:58:24,624
that threat was known ? General 

1492
00:58:24,624 --> 00:58:28,410
Mackenzie . The purpose of our force at 

1493
00:58:28,420 --> 00:58:30,380
the airfield was to bring american 

1494
00:58:30,380 --> 00:58:33,020
citizens and afghans at risk out . In 

1495
00:58:33,020 --> 00:58:35,187
order to do that . You had to have the 

1496
00:58:35,187 --> 00:58:37,464
gates open . You had to process people , 

1497
00:58:37,464 --> 00:58:39,409
you're right , there were a lot of 

1498
00:58:39,409 --> 00:58:41,353
threats and we worked very hard to 

1499
00:58:41,353 --> 00:58:43,464
minimize those threats and you try to 

1500
00:58:43,464 --> 00:58:45,631
balance it every once in a while , the 

1501
00:58:45,631 --> 00:58:47,798
bad guys sneak one in on you . This is 

1502
00:58:47,798 --> 00:58:47,310
an example of where that occurred . It 

1503
00:58:47,310 --> 00:58:49,260
wasn't through any , any lack of 

1504
00:58:49,260 --> 00:58:51,482
attention to trying to find those cells 

1505
00:58:51,482 --> 00:58:53,482
are looking hard for him and we did 

1506
00:58:53,482 --> 00:58:55,427
find a number and we did in fact , 

1507
00:58:55,427 --> 00:58:57,427
which I'll be happy to talk about a 

1508
00:58:57,427 --> 00:58:59,593
closed session . We did in fact enable 

1509
00:58:59,593 --> 00:59:01,371
uh , stopped those attacks from 

1510
00:59:01,371 --> 00:59:03,204
occurring this one . We were not 

1511
00:59:03,204 --> 00:59:05,260
successful . So speaking of that , I 

1512
00:59:05,260 --> 00:59:05,110
want to drill down just an innocent , 

1513
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,176
since I have a couple of the taliban 

1514
00:59:07,176 --> 00:59:08,953
was controlling the checkpoints 

1515
00:59:08,953 --> 00:59:11,009
obviously around the airport and you 

1516
00:59:11,009 --> 00:59:13,231
had indicated General Mackenzie that us 

1517
00:59:13,231 --> 00:59:15,176
at that time , had you called it a 

1518
00:59:15,176 --> 00:59:17,176
pragmatic relationship of necessity 

1519
00:59:17,176 --> 00:59:19,800
with the taliban . Did we share any 

1520
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:21,967
information with the taliban about the 

1521
00:59:21,967 --> 00:59:24,189
ISIS K threat ? And and if so , how did 

1522
00:59:24,189 --> 00:59:26,490
they the taliban respond to it now ? 

1523
00:59:26,490 --> 00:59:28,601
There's , how did they get in ? Is it 

1524
00:59:28,601 --> 00:59:30,490
possible that they let them in on 

1525
00:59:30,490 --> 00:59:32,601
purpose ? So it is possible that they 

1526
00:59:32,601 --> 00:59:34,712
let them in on purpose . But the body 

1527
00:59:34,712 --> 00:59:36,823
of intelligence indicates that is not 

1528
00:59:36,823 --> 00:59:36,470
in fact what happened , You know ? So 

1529
00:59:36,470 --> 00:59:38,248
one event happened and that's a 

1530
00:59:38,248 --> 00:59:40,414
terrible tragic event . A lot of other 

1531
00:59:40,414 --> 00:59:42,637
events didn't happen because that outer 

1532
00:59:42,637 --> 00:59:44,803
circle the taliban forces were there . 

1533
00:59:44,803 --> 00:59:44,700
Look , I , I defer to no one in my 

1534
00:59:44,700 --> 00:59:46,867
disdain for the taliban and my lack of 

1535
00:59:46,867 --> 00:59:48,811
trust for him , but I believe they 

1536
00:59:48,811 --> 00:59:50,922
actually prevented other attacks from 

1537
00:59:50,922 --> 00:59:52,867
occurring this event . Someone got 

1538
00:59:52,867 --> 00:59:54,922
through . I believe there were other 

1539
00:59:54,922 --> 00:59:54,840
times when people did not get through . 

1540
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,020
All right . Look , the reality is um , 

1541
01:00:00,410 --> 01:00:02,470
they're patriotic americans all over 

1542
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:04,830
the country . And certainly in North 

1543
01:00:04,830 --> 01:00:07,108
Dakota , they're really upset . I mean , 

1544
01:00:07,108 --> 01:00:10,350
they're they're genuinely off and they 

1545
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,580
sense that there's a lot of sort of 

1546
01:00:12,580 --> 01:00:16,510
political positioning and apologizing 

1547
01:00:16,510 --> 01:00:19,150
and rationalizing and no one's really 

1548
01:00:19,150 --> 01:00:21,250
saying anything other than it was an 

1549
01:00:21,250 --> 01:00:23,472
extraordinary event . Now some of you , 

1550
01:00:23,472 --> 01:00:25,306
you have admitted that it wasn't 

1551
01:00:25,306 --> 01:00:27,528
perfect . I think we're yours , General 

1552
01:00:27,528 --> 01:00:29,750
Milley , um , but extraordinary success 

1553
01:00:29,750 --> 01:00:29,740
just rankles them when they hear that , 

1554
01:00:30,010 --> 01:00:32,066
Especially when they see that out of 

1555
01:00:32,066 --> 01:00:35,030
124,000 people that were , that were 

1556
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,262
brought to the United States . We don't 

1557
01:00:37,262 --> 01:00:39,484
know much about a whole bunch of them . 

1558
01:00:39,484 --> 01:00:41,484
And yet we know a whole bunch about 

1559
01:00:41,484 --> 01:00:43,707
people that weren't brought back to the 

1560
01:00:43,707 --> 01:00:45,984
United States . And uh , they're upset . 

1561
01:00:45,984 --> 01:00:48,096
They're really , really upset . And I 

1562
01:00:48,096 --> 01:00:50,151
know , you know , that I hope that I 

1563
01:00:50,151 --> 01:00:52,262
think you're seeing the reflection of 

1564
01:00:52,262 --> 01:00:51,440
that and they're in their elected 

1565
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,384
representatives and we get to this 

1566
01:00:53,384 --> 01:00:55,440
afternoon will probably drill down a 

1567
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,662
little more on some things . But I look 

1568
01:00:57,662 --> 01:00:57,650
forward to that closed session as well . 

1569
01:00:57,650 --> 01:00:59,761
General Mackenzie to learn more about 

1570
01:00:59,761 --> 01:01:01,872
the august 26th . Thank you . Senator 

1571
01:01:02,290 --> 01:01:04,840
Senator Manchin , please thank you very 

1572
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:06,840
much . And first of all , thank all 

1573
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,673
three of you . I appreciate your 

1574
01:01:08,673 --> 01:01:08,530
service to our country . And I never 

1575
01:01:08,530 --> 01:01:10,680
have doubted your and wavering 

1576
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,902
commitment to defend our country in our 

1577
01:01:12,902 --> 01:01:15,050
constitution . Uh , I'm having a hard 

1578
01:01:15,050 --> 01:01:17,272
time . I'm old enough to understand . I 

1579
01:01:17,272 --> 01:01:19,439
remember Vietnam very well , I was , I 

1580
01:01:19,439 --> 01:01:22,090
was in line to go there and and had an 

1581
01:01:22,100 --> 01:01:24,500
injury in my playing ball w and that 

1582
01:01:24,500 --> 01:01:27,440
didn't happen . So anyway , I don't , I 

1583
01:01:27,450 --> 01:01:29,672
just can't figure out . I can't explain 

1584
01:01:29,672 --> 01:01:31,561
to the younger generation , to my 

1585
01:01:31,561 --> 01:01:33,728
Children and grandchildren . How do we 

1586
01:01:33,728 --> 01:01:35,783
get into this and never get out ? We 

1587
01:01:35,783 --> 01:01:37,950
didn't learn from Vietnam . That was a 

1588
01:01:37,950 --> 01:01:40,006
horrible exit . I remember that very 

1589
01:01:40,006 --> 01:01:42,228
vividly . This was even worse than that 

1590
01:01:42,228 --> 01:01:45,220
as far as my recall . And uh , and I 

1591
01:01:45,220 --> 01:01:47,220
don't know what lessons were taking 

1592
01:01:47,220 --> 01:01:49,980
from this right now . Uh , but I look 

1593
01:01:49,980 --> 01:01:52,091
back at lack of an A . U . M . F . We 

1594
01:01:52,091 --> 01:01:54,202
had an open and the um , F . We still 

1595
01:01:54,202 --> 01:01:56,258
have an open and a U . M . F . If we 

1596
01:01:56,258 --> 01:01:58,147
would have had an A . M . F . And 

1597
01:01:58,147 --> 01:01:59,980
basically had a time certain and 

1598
01:01:59,980 --> 01:02:02,400
specific goal . Do any of you think 

1599
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,622
that could have made a difference ? And 

1600
01:02:04,622 --> 01:02:06,844
do you think , I mean , hindsight being 

1601
01:02:06,844 --> 01:02:08,844
2020 , what did we learn from these 

1602
01:02:08,844 --> 01:02:11,178
mistakes ? How do we prevent them again ? 

1603
01:02:11,178 --> 01:02:10,750
We thought from Vietnam , we learned 

1604
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:12,704
not to go in and try to change the 

1605
01:02:12,704 --> 01:02:14,927
nation and here we are trading partners 

1606
01:02:14,927 --> 01:02:17,093
with Vietnam . That's I'm going to end 

1607
01:02:17,093 --> 01:02:19,038
up with Afghanistan . I just can't 

1608
01:02:19,038 --> 01:02:21,038
comprehend any of it , to be honest 

1609
01:02:21,038 --> 01:02:22,760
with you . And I got I have no 

1610
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:24,871
explanation . So , anybody that wants 

1611
01:02:24,871 --> 01:02:26,871
to help me and gentlemanly , I know 

1612
01:02:26,871 --> 01:02:28,649
that you have a great , a great 

1613
01:02:28,649 --> 01:02:28,480
knowledge of history and how we've 

1614
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,870
gotten into situations and maybe we 

1615
01:02:30,870 --> 01:02:33,440
should keep from repeating that . Yeah . 

1616
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,120
As I said , uh , senator mentioned in 

1617
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,110
my opening comment . Um , I'm sorry . I 

1618
01:02:39,110 --> 01:02:41,332
was I was conducting in our meeting . I 

1619
01:02:41,332 --> 01:02:43,554
wasn't able to be here . I'm so sorry . 

1620
01:02:43,554 --> 01:02:45,666
I mentioned , you know that there's , 

1621
01:02:45,666 --> 01:02:47,388
there's been , you know , four 

1622
01:02:47,388 --> 01:02:49,277
presidents , 20 commanders on the 

1623
01:02:49,277 --> 01:02:51,443
ground , uh seven or eight Chairman of 

1624
01:02:51,443 --> 01:02:53,400
the Joint Chiefs , uh , you know , 

1625
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,233
dozens of secretaries of defense 

1626
01:02:55,233 --> 01:02:58,010
etcetera . Um , and and outcomes like 

1627
01:02:58,010 --> 01:03:00,370
this are not determined in , you know , 

1628
01:03:00,380 --> 01:03:02,491
the last five days , the last 20 days 

1629
01:03:02,491 --> 01:03:04,436
or the last year for that matter , 

1630
01:03:04,436 --> 01:03:06,760
outcomes in a war like this , an 

1631
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,871
outcome that is a strategic failure , 

1632
01:03:08,871 --> 01:03:11,230
the enemy is in charge in Kabul . 

1633
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,367
There's no way else to describe that . 

1634
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,030
That outcome is a cumulative effect of 

1635
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,420
20 years , not 20 days . And there are 

1636
01:03:19,420 --> 01:03:22,580
a huge amount of strategic operational 

1637
01:03:22,580 --> 01:03:24,636
and tactical lessons that need to be 

1638
01:03:24,636 --> 01:03:27,460
learned from this . Some of them in the 

1639
01:03:27,460 --> 01:03:29,571
military sphere , the narrow military 

1640
01:03:29,571 --> 01:03:31,793
sphere . One of them , for example , is 

1641
01:03:31,793 --> 01:03:33,904
the mirror imaging of the building of 

1642
01:03:33,904 --> 01:03:36,420
the afghan National Army based on 

1643
01:03:36,420 --> 01:03:38,087
american doctrine , tactics , 

1644
01:03:38,087 --> 01:03:40,600
techniques and procedures and that made 

1645
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,540
a military that may , I'm gonna wait 

1646
01:03:43,540 --> 01:03:45,429
full evaluation but may have been 

1647
01:03:45,429 --> 01:03:47,900
overly dependent upon us , our presence 

1648
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:50,690
contractors , uh and higher tech 

1649
01:03:50,700 --> 01:03:52,750
systems in order to fight a 

1650
01:03:52,750 --> 01:03:54,972
counterinsurgency war . That's one area 

1651
01:03:54,972 --> 01:03:56,861
that needs to be fully explored . 

1652
01:03:56,861 --> 01:03:59,028
Another is the Intel . How did we miss 

1653
01:03:59,028 --> 01:04:00,694
the collapse of an army and a 

1654
01:04:00,694 --> 01:04:02,917
government that big , that fast in only 

1655
01:04:02,917 --> 01:04:05,250
11 days . That needs to be pulled apart . 

1656
01:04:05,250 --> 01:04:04,530
And then there are other factors that 

1657
01:04:04,530 --> 01:04:06,752
not strictly military , but things like 

1658
01:04:06,752 --> 01:04:08,586
the legitimacy of the government 

1659
01:04:08,586 --> 01:04:10,752
corruption . Uh , the parasitic nature 

1660
01:04:10,752 --> 01:04:12,863
of the police force is that there's a 

1661
01:04:12,863 --> 01:04:14,974
whole series of , you know , 10 or 20 

1662
01:04:14,974 --> 01:04:17,030
that I wrote down just a week or two 

1663
01:04:17,030 --> 01:04:19,086
ago . Uh , that need to be looked at 

1664
01:04:19,086 --> 01:04:20,863
and looked at in depth and very 

1665
01:04:20,863 --> 01:04:23,197
seriously and comprehensively over time . 

1666
01:04:23,197 --> 01:04:25,086
We know where the president , the 

1667
01:04:25,086 --> 01:04:27,030
former President of Afghanistan is 

1668
01:04:27,030 --> 01:04:29,141
today and how much money he took with 

1669
01:04:29,141 --> 01:04:31,920
him ? We have any idea I act 

1670
01:04:32,890 --> 01:04:35,057
startup Secretary Austin . Do you have 

1671
01:04:35,057 --> 01:04:37,210
any idea ? I think that he may be in 

1672
01:04:37,210 --> 01:04:39,750
the U . S . Senator . I'm not certain 

1673
01:04:39,750 --> 01:04:42,550
of that . The last report that I had 

1674
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,080
and in terms of any money that he may 

1675
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:46,858
have taken with him . I have no 

1676
01:04:46,858 --> 01:04:49,080
knowledge of any amounts of money . You 

1677
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,080
all haven't been able to . I mean , 

1678
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:53,191
there's no way that we can trace that 

1679
01:04:53,191 --> 01:04:55,302
to our to the middle . I mean through 

1680
01:04:55,302 --> 01:04:57,524
the banking institutions . No way do we 

1681
01:04:57,524 --> 01:04:57,220
have any insight on that whatsoever ? 

1682
01:04:57,230 --> 01:04:59,174
Has to be exchanges going back and 

1683
01:04:59,174 --> 01:05:01,063
forth ? Because I'm sure he's not 

1684
01:05:01,063 --> 01:05:03,286
keeping it in the Bank of Afghanistan ? 

1685
01:05:03,286 --> 01:05:06,290
Yeah . Defense doesn't have any insight 

1686
01:05:06,290 --> 01:05:08,640
on that senator . But certainly I'm not 

1687
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,840
sure if the law enforcement agency , 

1688
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:12,976
Treasury , maybe Treasury might uh , 

1689
01:05:12,976 --> 01:05:16,340
I'm just looking for some answers that 

1690
01:05:16,350 --> 01:05:18,017
maybe aren't answerable . But 

1691
01:05:18,290 --> 01:05:20,730
everyone's asked the questions of how 

1692
01:05:20,730 --> 01:05:23,063
do we prevent this from happening again . 

1693
01:05:23,063 --> 01:05:25,119
Why didn't we see it ? There's not a 

1694
01:05:25,119 --> 01:05:27,286
person this return that I've spoken to 

1695
01:05:27,286 --> 01:05:29,286
on special ops that were there When 

1696
01:05:29,286 --> 01:05:31,508
they returned , I was there a couple of 

1697
01:05:31,508 --> 01:05:33,730
times in 2006 , I was there in 2011 , I 

1698
01:05:33,730 --> 01:05:35,730
was there . But I every time it got 

1699
01:05:35,730 --> 01:05:37,897
worse , it didn't get better . So this 

1700
01:05:37,897 --> 01:05:39,897
could be a surprise . Uh they never 

1701
01:05:39,897 --> 01:05:42,119
we're going to step to the plate and it 

1702
01:05:42,119 --> 01:05:41,200
could have been a surprise that they 

1703
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:42,978
wouldn't fight . They never had 

1704
01:05:42,978 --> 01:05:44,978
allegiance to a country . I mean we 

1705
01:05:44,978 --> 01:05:47,033
knew that and a special ops , people 

1706
01:05:47,033 --> 01:05:48,922
said it gets worse every day . It 

1707
01:05:48,922 --> 01:05:51,089
doesn't get better . Every mission was 

1708
01:05:51,089 --> 01:05:53,256
worse . Uh We used to drive from Kabul 

1709
01:05:53,256 --> 01:05:56,360
to bagram after I went back the second 

1710
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:59,130
time . He can't do that . Let me get so 

1711
01:05:59,130 --> 01:06:02,360
bad . Everything got bad . I just And I 

1712
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:04,920
got to tell this one . It drives me 

1713
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,142
absolutely insane to see the television 

1714
01:06:07,142 --> 01:06:10,040
at night and see the taliban and all of 

1715
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:12,580
them wearing our uniforms , wearing our 

1716
01:06:12,580 --> 01:06:14,691
night vision , doing everything using 

1717
01:06:14,691 --> 01:06:16,636
everything we have our m wraps and 

1718
01:06:16,636 --> 01:06:18,802
everything else that we left there . I 

1719
01:06:18,802 --> 01:06:20,969
just can't believe it . I can't get an 

1720
01:06:20,969 --> 01:06:22,969
accounting of how much equipment we 

1721
01:06:22,969 --> 01:06:24,913
really did leave . I know how many 

1722
01:06:24,913 --> 01:06:27,136
aircraft we left and I know how many uh 

1723
01:06:27,136 --> 01:06:29,191
basically uh m wraps and and all the 

1724
01:06:29,191 --> 01:06:31,330
different things , but not to plan 

1725
01:06:31,330 --> 01:06:33,420
better to take that equipment out . 

1726
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:36,840
Unbelievable . Uh I would just flag for 

1727
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,150
you senator that all of the equipment 

1728
01:06:39,150 --> 01:06:42,790
that uh , that we had , that we used uh , 

1729
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:46,100
was retro graded by General Miller 

1730
01:06:46,110 --> 01:06:48,580
uh , as a part of the draw down 

1731
01:06:48,590 --> 01:06:52,040
thousands of tons of equipment and 

1732
01:06:52,050 --> 01:06:54,340
whatever high end uh , equipment that 

1733
01:06:54,340 --> 01:06:57,240
we had that that that we were using the 

1734
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,510
equipment that that the that the afghan 

1735
01:07:00,510 --> 01:07:04,260
security forces had as a taliban uh , 

1736
01:07:04,270 --> 01:07:06,630
took over is the equipment that that 

1737
01:07:06,630 --> 01:07:09,080
you see . And of course , all of the 

1738
01:07:09,090 --> 01:07:11,180
helicopters that were left on on the 

1739
01:07:11,180 --> 01:07:13,810
airfield at HK area . I asked General 

1740
01:07:13,820 --> 01:07:17,260
General Mackenzie to demilitarize those 

1741
01:07:17,270 --> 01:07:19,381
so that they couldn't be ever be used 

1742
01:07:19,381 --> 01:07:23,260
again . Uh , and uh , and so we took 

1743
01:07:23,270 --> 01:07:25,430
we retrograde ID all of our equipment 

1744
01:07:25,430 --> 01:07:27,680
that we were supposed to retrograde as 

1745
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:29,736
we drew down . Anything I can say in 

1746
01:07:29,736 --> 01:07:31,736
fault function up . Is it ? I would 

1747
01:07:31,736 --> 01:07:33,736
hope that God will bless America to 

1748
01:07:33,736 --> 01:07:35,736
have the intelligence not to repeat 

1749
01:07:35,736 --> 01:07:37,902
what we can continually seen . Doesn't 

1750
01:07:37,902 --> 01:07:40,013
work . And with you , all expertise , 

1751
01:07:40,013 --> 01:07:42,069
you have that knowledge gaining from 

1752
01:07:42,069 --> 01:07:44,291
all this . Please , please help us from 

1753
01:07:44,291 --> 01:07:46,402
ever ever repeating what we've done . 

1754
01:07:46,402 --> 01:07:48,624
Thank you Senator Mitchell . Uh Senator 

1755
01:07:48,624 --> 01:07:50,736
scott , please thank you . Chairman . 

1756
01:07:50,736 --> 01:07:53,160
Um first of all , thank each of you for 

1757
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,860
being here . Generally one thing um , I 

1758
01:07:55,860 --> 01:07:58,230
hope at some point you'll address is um , 

1759
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:01,210
the content of your calls with regard 

1760
01:08:01,220 --> 01:08:04,630
to uh , the chinese and whether you act , 

1761
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:06,918
you know what it's been alleged as you , 

1762
01:08:06,918 --> 01:08:09,029
you would warn them if they're um was 

1763
01:08:09,029 --> 01:08:11,560
going to be an attack . Also address 

1764
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:13,960
whether there was any intelligence 

1765
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:15,793
indicating that the chinese were 

1766
01:08:15,793 --> 01:08:18,010
actually nervous . Um One thing that 

1767
01:08:18,010 --> 01:08:20,232
surprised me about what's been going on 

1768
01:08:20,232 --> 01:08:22,288
the last few months is the president 

1769
01:08:22,288 --> 01:08:24,510
has absolutely blamed everyone else but 

1770
01:08:24,510 --> 01:08:26,454
himself for the bash withdrawal of 

1771
01:08:26,454 --> 01:08:28,454
Afghanistan . He is the president , 

1772
01:08:28,454 --> 01:08:28,110
United States . He has ability to make 

1773
01:08:28,110 --> 01:08:30,221
these decisions . He can take all the 

1774
01:08:30,221 --> 01:08:32,443
advice he wants but he gets to make the 

1775
01:08:32,443 --> 01:08:34,610
final decisions . He's blamed previous 

1776
01:08:34,610 --> 01:08:36,499
administrations . He's blamed the 

1777
01:08:36,499 --> 01:08:38,554
people Afghanistan . He's blamed the 

1778
01:08:38,554 --> 01:08:40,777
military of Afghanistan , which I think 

1779
01:08:40,777 --> 01:08:42,777
is absolutely disingenuous . Uh the 

1780
01:08:42,777 --> 01:08:44,721
people , the White House have even 

1781
01:08:44,721 --> 01:08:46,610
blamed our own military Secretary 

1782
01:08:46,610 --> 01:08:48,777
Austin . Some things you've said today 

1783
01:08:48,777 --> 01:08:50,832
actually surprised me . You said you 

1784
01:08:50,832 --> 01:08:52,777
were ready . You said you exceeded 

1785
01:08:52,777 --> 01:08:55,250
expectations . You said our credibility 

1786
01:08:55,250 --> 01:08:58,170
is solid . And you said the president 

1787
01:08:58,170 --> 01:09:00,448
followed your advice on the evacuation . 

1788
01:09:00,448 --> 01:09:02,670
Let me just ask you first question is , 

1789
01:09:03,070 --> 01:09:05,030
do you still believe that the most 

1790
01:09:05,030 --> 01:09:07,370
effective withdrawal strategy involves 

1791
01:09:07,370 --> 01:09:09,592
extracting the military , abandoned our 

1792
01:09:09,592 --> 01:09:12,440
military installations and reducing our 

1793
01:09:12,440 --> 01:09:14,384
use of force and ability use force 

1794
01:09:14,384 --> 01:09:17,100
before we got our civilians out . Mm . 

1795
01:09:17,770 --> 01:09:20,820
Thanks Senator . First of all , the 

1796
01:09:20,820 --> 01:09:24,330
plan was to the decision was to was 

1797
01:09:24,330 --> 01:09:27,760
to uh and our military operations and 

1798
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:30,280
draw down all of our forces and and 

1799
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:32,530
retrograde all of our equipment and 

1800
01:09:32,530 --> 01:09:34,790
that was accomplished . General Miller 

1801
01:09:34,790 --> 01:09:37,012
I think . Put together a great plan and 

1802
01:09:37,012 --> 01:09:39,123
executed that plan in accordance with 

1803
01:09:39,123 --> 01:09:42,880
the plan . Also a key part of the plan 

1804
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:46,560
was to maintain an embassy in Kabul 

1805
01:09:46,570 --> 01:09:49,770
uh and maintaining that embassy would 

1806
01:09:49,770 --> 01:09:53,520
allow us to continue to engage um the 

1807
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,409
government to continue to provide 

1808
01:09:55,409 --> 01:09:58,160
resources to to support the Afghan 

1809
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,900
security forces . So it was 

1810
01:10:01,910 --> 01:10:05,300
the plan was to leave a diplomatic 

1811
01:10:05,300 --> 01:10:08,570
presence there . And in conjunction 

1812
01:10:08,570 --> 01:10:10,710
with that plan we also we're going to 

1813
01:10:10,710 --> 01:10:12,821
leave a small military force there to 

1814
01:10:12,821 --> 01:10:15,500
help secure the embassy . So that was 

1815
01:10:15,500 --> 01:10:18,370
the plan , Senator . But you didn't 

1816
01:10:18,370 --> 01:10:20,440
address the issue that you made all 

1817
01:10:20,440 --> 01:10:22,390
these , It was your plan . You've 

1818
01:10:22,390 --> 01:10:24,557
acknowledged it was your plan and your 

1819
01:10:24,557 --> 01:10:27,290
plan . So you would do all these things 

1820
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:30,160
before we got our civilians out . I 

1821
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:31,993
mean when in the history of this 

1822
01:10:31,993 --> 01:10:33,771
country have we ever had the US 

1823
01:10:33,771 --> 01:10:35,938
military said and and have a plan that 

1824
01:10:35,938 --> 01:10:37,938
we will take our military out first 

1825
01:10:37,938 --> 01:10:40,104
before we take our civilians ? I can't 

1826
01:10:40,104 --> 01:10:42,160
imagine that when you , when you say 

1827
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:44,049
civilians are you are you are you 

1828
01:10:44,049 --> 01:10:45,827
talking about citizens american 

1829
01:10:45,827 --> 01:10:47,771
citizens Now the american citizens 

1830
01:10:47,771 --> 01:10:49,716
would come out once a noncombatant 

1831
01:10:49,716 --> 01:10:52,130
evacuation is declared . And until that 

1832
01:10:52,130 --> 01:10:54,620
point uh typically we don't evacuate 

1833
01:10:54,620 --> 01:10:57,200
all the citizens in the country but we 

1834
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:59,700
didn't hear there's american citizens 

1835
01:10:59,710 --> 01:11:02,920
still there and we continue to remain 

1836
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:06,170
engaged and and uh and and work to uh 

1837
01:11:06,180 --> 01:11:08,236
to get those citizens out Senator uh 

1838
01:11:08,236 --> 01:11:11,850
huh . Why would you propose a 

1839
01:11:11,850 --> 01:11:13,940
plan that didn't get all american 

1840
01:11:13,940 --> 01:11:15,940
citizens out . I just can't imagine 

1841
01:11:15,940 --> 01:11:18,162
ever in the history of this country are 

1842
01:11:18,162 --> 01:11:20,440
U . S . Military would propose to leave 

1843
01:11:20,440 --> 01:11:23,820
a country with our citizens coming out 

1844
01:11:23,830 --> 01:11:26,230
first . I mean has we have we ever done 

1845
01:11:26,230 --> 01:11:29,970
that before ? All of the american 

1846
01:11:29,970 --> 01:11:32,137
citizens wouldn't leave senator unless 

1847
01:11:32,137 --> 01:11:34,248
there was a noncombatant evacuation . 

1848
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:37,860
And you know the plan was to leave the 

1849
01:11:37,860 --> 01:11:40,860
embassy there uh to continue to address 

1850
01:11:40,860 --> 01:11:43,000
the needs of our american citizens to 

1851
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,540
engage with the government . And and so 

1852
01:11:45,550 --> 01:11:49,160
that was a part of the plan . Not again 

1853
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:52,000
the plan was never to evacuate the 

1854
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,780
american citizens and leave the embassy 

1855
01:11:54,780 --> 01:11:57,260
there . Do you did it bother you ? And 

1856
01:11:57,260 --> 01:11:58,982
the president went on national 

1857
01:11:58,982 --> 01:12:01,250
television said that he would not leave 

1858
01:12:01,250 --> 01:12:03,560
until all american citizens were uh 

1859
01:12:03,570 --> 01:12:05,792
were taken out . Did it bother you that 

1860
01:12:05,792 --> 01:12:08,014
when he said that because it clearly is 

1861
01:12:08,014 --> 01:12:09,959
not true . It was not truthful now 

1862
01:12:09,959 --> 01:12:12,360
Senator I you know you you heard me say 

1863
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:14,527
several times that we're gonna work as 

1864
01:12:14,527 --> 01:12:16,749
hard as we can for as long as we can to 

1865
01:12:16,749 --> 01:12:18,990
get every american citizen out that 

1866
01:12:18,990 --> 01:12:21,157
wants to come out and when we continue 

1867
01:12:21,157 --> 01:12:23,540
to do that to this day ? Well rob 

1868
01:12:23,540 --> 01:12:26,790
murder at a time . But one day I I want 

1869
01:12:26,790 --> 01:12:28,901
when we have the next round I want to 

1870
01:12:28,901 --> 01:12:30,901
understand what decisions would you 

1871
01:12:30,901 --> 01:12:33,123
make differently today to save those 13 

1872
01:12:33,123 --> 01:12:36,270
lives of service men and women that we 

1873
01:12:36,270 --> 01:12:38,410
lost at the Kabul Airport . So but 

1874
01:12:38,410 --> 01:12:40,466
thank you very much . Thank you . Mr 

1875
01:12:40,466 --> 01:12:42,632
Chairman . Senator if I could come out 

1876
01:12:42,632 --> 01:12:44,688
on your first opening comment . If I 

1877
01:12:44,688 --> 01:12:48,530
may go ahead sir . Yeah , I am happy to 

1878
01:12:48,530 --> 01:12:51,460
lay out every detail in all the intel 

1879
01:12:51,460 --> 01:12:53,627
to you as an individual , to any other 

1880
01:12:53,627 --> 01:12:56,050
member or to a committee or anything 

1881
01:12:56,050 --> 01:12:58,272
you want on these chinese calls at your 

1882
01:12:58,272 --> 01:13:00,328
convenience . Happy to do it . Thank 

1883
01:13:00,328 --> 01:13:03,060
you . Thank you . Uh Thank you . 

1884
01:13:03,060 --> 01:13:05,171
Senator scott . Senator , doc Worth , 

1885
01:13:05,171 --> 01:13:07,227
please . Thank you . Mr Chairman . I 

1886
01:13:07,227 --> 01:13:09,449
share my colleague's concerns about the 

1887
01:13:09,449 --> 01:13:11,560
rapid collapse of the Afghan National 

1888
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:13,610
Defence and Security Forces and the 

1889
01:13:13,610 --> 01:13:15,666
Afghan government and the failure of 

1890
01:13:15,666 --> 01:13:17,999
our intelligence . We need some answers . 

1891
01:13:18,350 --> 01:13:20,860
After investing two decades , nearly $2 

1892
01:13:20,860 --> 01:13:24,760
trillion 2500 of 

1893
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:27,040
American troops . Our nation must 

1894
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,600
conduct a thorough and honest review of 

1895
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:31,322
the United States government's 

1896
01:13:31,322 --> 01:13:33,378
involvement in Afghanistan since the 

1897
01:13:33,378 --> 01:13:35,600
September 11 , 2001 terrorist attacks . 

1898
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:37,544
For the sake of current and future 

1899
01:13:37,544 --> 01:13:39,656
generations of war fighters , we must 

1900
01:13:39,656 --> 01:13:41,322
capture the hard lessons from 

1901
01:13:41,322 --> 01:13:43,156
Afghanistan to ensure that these 

1902
01:13:43,156 --> 01:13:45,100
lessons are not forgotten or worse 

1903
01:13:45,100 --> 01:13:48,030
repeated on a future battlefield . This 

1904
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:50,660
is our moral responsibility as a nation . 

1905
01:13:51,150 --> 01:13:53,317
Gentlemen , all three of you have been 

1906
01:13:53,317 --> 01:13:55,261
involved in the war in Afghanistan 

1907
01:13:55,261 --> 01:13:57,317
multiple times in multiple different 

1908
01:13:57,317 --> 01:13:59,372
capacities throughout your careers , 

1909
01:13:59,372 --> 01:14:01,483
Secretary Austin was the situation on 

1910
01:14:01,483 --> 01:14:03,706
the ground in Afghanistan over the last 

1911
01:14:03,706 --> 01:14:05,706
few months , influenced by previous 

1912
01:14:05,706 --> 01:14:07,594
decisions made over the course of 

1913
01:14:07,594 --> 01:14:10,500
several years . I absolutely believe 

1914
01:14:10,500 --> 01:14:13,140
that Senator I foremost among those 

1915
01:14:13,140 --> 01:14:16,330
decisions is the is the Doha agreement . 

1916
01:14:16,340 --> 01:14:18,780
I think that that is severely impacted 

1917
01:14:18,780 --> 01:14:21,860
the morale of the military . Thank you . 

1918
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:24,518
Secretary Officer . If that's the case , 

1919
01:14:24,518 --> 01:14:25,962
is it possible to have an 

1920
01:14:25,962 --> 01:14:28,073
intellectually honest Lessons learned 

1921
01:14:28,073 --> 01:14:30,410
exercise that only looks at the most 

1922
01:14:30,410 --> 01:14:32,410
recent events in Afghanistan of the 

1923
01:14:32,410 --> 01:14:34,410
last couple of months ? Or must any 

1924
01:14:34,410 --> 01:14:36,632
effective review ? Look at the whole 20 

1925
01:14:36,632 --> 01:14:39,310
years since September 11 , I think you 

1926
01:14:39,310 --> 01:14:42,000
have to look at the the the entire 20 

1927
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:44,056
years . Uh senator , I think there's 

1928
01:14:44,056 --> 01:14:46,278
some great lessons learned that uh that 

1929
01:14:46,278 --> 01:14:48,710
we're gonna take away once we do that . 

1930
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:50,887
But yeah , I believe you gotta look at 

1931
01:14:50,887 --> 01:14:52,998
the entire time spent . Thank you . I 

1932
01:14:52,998 --> 01:14:55,164
agree that an effective review must be 

1933
01:14:55,164 --> 01:14:57,220
comprehensive . After all the war in 

1934
01:14:57,220 --> 01:14:58,942
Afghanistan was shaped by four 

1935
01:14:58,942 --> 01:15:00,776
different administrations and 11 

1936
01:15:00,776 --> 01:15:03,360
different Congresses . No party should 

1937
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:05,304
be looking to score cheap partisan 

1938
01:15:05,304 --> 01:15:07,400
political points of a multi decade 

1939
01:15:07,410 --> 01:15:09,620
nation building failure . That was 

1940
01:15:09,620 --> 01:15:12,290
bipartisan in the making . Instead , 

1941
01:15:12,290 --> 01:15:14,401
Congress should authorize a long term 

1942
01:15:14,401 --> 01:15:16,480
effort solely devoted to bringing 

1943
01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:18,647
accountability and transparency to the 

1944
01:15:18,647 --> 01:15:20,536
Afghanistan war and lessons to be 

1945
01:15:20,536 --> 01:15:22,647
learned . That is why on thursday , I 

1946
01:15:22,647 --> 01:15:24,869
will be introducing the Afghanistan War 

1947
01:15:24,869 --> 01:15:26,860
study Commission . My bill would 

1948
01:15:26,860 --> 01:15:28,820
establish a bipartisan Independent 

1949
01:15:28,820 --> 01:15:31,470
commission to examine every aspect of 

1950
01:15:31,470 --> 01:15:33,870
the war , including the political and 

1951
01:15:33,870 --> 01:15:36,037
strategic decisions that transformed a 

1952
01:15:36,037 --> 01:15:38,160
focused military mission into vast 

1953
01:15:38,170 --> 01:15:41,510
nation building campaign importantly , 

1954
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:43,742
this commission must produce actionable 

1955
01:15:43,742 --> 01:15:45,853
recommendations designed to guide the 

1956
01:15:45,853 --> 01:15:48,040
development of real reforms . Just as 

1957
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:50,040
the 9 11 commission's work informed 

1958
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:52,262
congressional law making efforts in the 

1959
01:15:52,262 --> 01:15:54,484
years after its publication , Secretary 

1960
01:15:54,484 --> 01:15:56,596
Austin , would you agree with me that 

1961
01:15:56,596 --> 01:15:58,940
such an independent long term study 

1962
01:15:58,950 --> 01:16:00,506
could serve as an effective 

1963
01:16:00,506 --> 01:16:02,740
complementary effort to the more 

1964
01:16:02,740 --> 01:16:05,073
targeted lessons learned reviews that D . 

1965
01:16:05,073 --> 01:16:07,240
O . D . Always conducts , particularly 

1966
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:09,351
in shedding light on how congress and 

1967
01:16:09,351 --> 01:16:11,073
civilian leaders from multiple 

1968
01:16:11,073 --> 01:16:13,470
government agencies can do a better job 

1969
01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:15,369
in defining the scope of military 

1970
01:16:15,369 --> 01:16:17,580
missions and actually enforcing legal 

1971
01:16:17,580 --> 01:16:21,140
limitations on the use of force . I 

1972
01:16:21,140 --> 01:16:23,251
would and I did the point that you're 

1973
01:16:23,251 --> 01:16:25,307
making it needs to , my view is that 

1974
01:16:25,307 --> 01:16:27,529
needs to be an an inter agency approach 

1975
01:16:27,529 --> 01:16:29,930
to this . Thank you and I do want to 

1976
01:16:29,930 --> 01:16:33,200
note that my family and I were in 

1977
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:36,380
cambodia until the very end . I'm an 

1978
01:16:36,380 --> 01:16:38,491
american . I was born in Thailand but 

1979
01:16:38,491 --> 01:16:40,713
my father worked for the United Nations 

1980
01:16:40,713 --> 01:16:42,936
and to answer my colleague's question . 

1981
01:16:42,936 --> 01:16:45,470
Um My father chose to stay as long as 

1982
01:16:45,470 --> 01:16:47,581
possible to help the Cambodian people 

1983
01:16:47,581 --> 01:16:50,120
as long as possible and he left after 

1984
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:52,231
american troops had left the american 

1985
01:16:52,231 --> 01:16:54,176
ambassador stayed behind after the 

1986
01:16:54,176 --> 01:16:56,231
american troops had left and in fact 

1987
01:16:56,231 --> 01:16:58,342
after the last military transport had 

1988
01:16:58,342 --> 01:16:58,330
left . I know this because my father 

1989
01:16:58,330 --> 01:17:00,441
was on the last military transport to 

1990
01:17:00,441 --> 01:17:02,552
leave cambodia and the ambassador had 

1991
01:17:02,552 --> 01:17:04,820
to travel overland . So yes , we do 

1992
01:17:04,820 --> 01:17:06,876
leave americans behind , but this is 

1993
01:17:06,876 --> 01:17:09,098
all tied to neo operations and how that 

1994
01:17:09,098 --> 01:17:11,320
is planned . Which is why I think it is 

1995
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,010
so important that we have an 

1996
01:17:13,020 --> 01:17:15,076
independent investigation may be the 

1997
01:17:15,076 --> 01:17:17,242
failure here was that we didn't have a 

1998
01:17:17,242 --> 01:17:19,020
Neo plan in place and we didn't 

1999
01:17:19,020 --> 01:17:18,930
activate it before all of our troops 

2000
01:17:18,930 --> 01:17:21,041
left . But if that's the case we need 

2001
01:17:21,041 --> 01:17:23,310
to learn that . So I would ask for um 

2002
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:25,042
my colleagues to consider this 

2003
01:17:25,042 --> 01:17:27,170
independent commission . We put 

2004
01:17:27,170 --> 01:17:29,337
somebody in charge of it who is not in 

2005
01:17:29,337 --> 01:17:31,448
a decision making capacity during the 

2006
01:17:31,448 --> 01:17:34,090
20 years . Make it make it non partisan . 

2007
01:17:34,100 --> 01:17:36,267
And let's get those lessons learned so 

2008
01:17:36,267 --> 01:17:38,322
we don't make the same mistakes over 

2009
01:17:38,322 --> 01:17:40,322
and over again . Our troops deserve 

2010
01:17:40,322 --> 01:17:42,433
better . And the families of the 2500 

2011
01:17:42,433 --> 01:17:44,433
American troops who laid down their 

2012
01:17:44,433 --> 01:17:46,211
lives to protect and defend the 

2013
01:17:46,211 --> 01:17:48,378
constitution , who followed the lawful 

2014
01:17:48,378 --> 01:17:50,600
order of all of those presidents . They 

2015
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:52,711
deserve better than partisan fights . 

2016
01:17:52,711 --> 01:17:54,656
We need to get some real answers . 

2017
01:17:54,656 --> 01:17:54,080
Thank you . I yield back . Mr . 

2018
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:55,969
Chairman , thank you Senator Dark 

2019
01:17:55,969 --> 01:17:58,080
Growth . Now let me recognize Senator 

2020
01:17:58,080 --> 01:17:57,640
Blackburn