1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,490 thank you very much . Time expired . I 2 00:00:02,490 --> 00:00:04,620 have to ask the witnesses a question 3 00:00:04,630 --> 00:00:06,741 complicated scheduling thing going on 4 00:00:06,741 --> 00:00:08,852 here . We are scheduled to have votes 5 00:00:08,852 --> 00:00:12,620 at 1 30 ish . Um My plan would be 6 00:00:12,620 --> 00:00:15,250 too , if we could go to that period , 7 00:00:15,260 --> 00:00:17,538 get through that , take the break then . 8 00:00:17,538 --> 00:00:19,649 But it's been a while . If you need a 9 00:00:19,649 --> 00:00:22,910 break earlier We could we can take a 15 10 00:00:22,910 --> 00:00:25,570 minute break at 12:30 and I wish there 11 00:00:25,570 --> 00:00:27,403 was an easier way to do this but 12 00:00:27,403 --> 00:00:29,514 totally up to you . Would you like to 13 00:00:29,514 --> 00:00:31,514 break at 12:30 or would you like to 14 00:00:31,514 --> 00:00:32,737 just go until boats ? 15 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,870 Uh I think we're good for right now . 16 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,240 Chairman . Okay if you need a break , 17 00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:43,480 just you know , we'll fire the star 18 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:46,820 cluster . We all have over . We all 19 00:00:46,820 --> 00:00:48,987 have overprotective aides who are like 20 00:00:48,987 --> 00:00:50,987 you know , pounding on us that they 21 00:00:50,987 --> 00:00:53,153 need to break . They need a break . So 22 00:00:53,153 --> 00:00:55,209 I just figured I'd ask so um we will 23 00:00:55,209 --> 00:00:57,153 proceed and I appreciate that . Mr 24 00:00:57,153 --> 00:00:56,600 Gallagher is recognized for five 25 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,933 minutes . Thank you . General Mackenzie . 26 00:00:58,933 --> 00:01:01,100 The Washington post reported on august 27 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:03,156 28th at the Taliban offered to allow 28 00:01:03,156 --> 00:01:03,060 the U . S . Military to take 29 00:01:03,060 --> 00:01:05,260 responsibility for security in Kabul . 30 00:01:05,540 --> 00:01:07,540 Did you meet with mullah Baradar to 31 00:01:07,540 --> 00:01:10,440 discuss such an offer . I met with 32 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,280 Mullah Barada in Doha on 15 August to 33 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,224 pass a message to him that we were 34 00:01:15,224 --> 00:01:17,280 withdrawing and if they attempted to 35 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,502 disrupt that withdrawal we would punish 36 00:01:19,502 --> 00:01:21,669 them severely for that . But we are to 37 00:01:21,669 --> 00:01:23,836 allow you to have security over all of 38 00:01:23,836 --> 00:01:26,002 Kabul . As part of that conversation , 39 00:01:26,002 --> 00:01:27,780 he said why don't you just take 40 00:01:27,780 --> 00:01:29,836 security for all of Kabul ? That was 41 00:01:29,836 --> 00:01:32,058 not why I was there ? That was not that 42 00:01:32,058 --> 00:01:34,169 was not my instruction and we did not 43 00:01:34,169 --> 00:01:33,960 have the resources to undertake that . 44 00:01:34,010 --> 00:01:36,232 Did you convey the offer ? However , to 45 00:01:36,232 --> 00:01:38,343 the President ? The offer was made in 46 00:01:38,343 --> 00:01:40,566 the presence of the President's special 47 00:01:40,566 --> 00:01:42,732 Representative to Afghanistan . Do you 48 00:01:42,732 --> 00:01:44,788 know if the S rap conveyed it to the 49 00:01:44,788 --> 00:01:44,140 President ? I don't know . But it was 50 00:01:44,140 --> 00:01:46,251 conveyed to my chain of command . Who 51 00:01:46,251 --> 00:01:48,196 made the decision to turn down the 52 00:01:48,196 --> 00:01:50,140 Taliban offer to allow the U . S . 53 00:01:50,140 --> 00:01:52,196 Military to secure Kabul and put the 54 00:01:52,196 --> 00:01:54,251 safety of our troops in the hands of 55 00:01:54,251 --> 00:01:56,362 the Taliban . I did not consider that 56 00:01:56,362 --> 00:01:56,150 to be a formal offer and it was not the 57 00:01:56,150 --> 00:01:58,261 reason why I was there . So I did not 58 00:01:58,261 --> 00:02:00,261 pursue it . So if you're if someone 59 00:02:00,261 --> 00:02:02,261 actually made a decision that would 60 00:02:02,261 --> 00:02:04,372 have been me . So we don't know if it 61 00:02:04,372 --> 00:02:03,680 was conveyed to the President . We 62 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,847 don't know . I do know it was conveyed 63 00:02:05,847 --> 00:02:08,069 to my chain of command . Okay , what do 64 00:02:08,069 --> 00:02:10,069 you in military terms ? What do you 65 00:02:10,069 --> 00:02:12,069 call the retreat of military forces 66 00:02:12,069 --> 00:02:14,291 under security provided by and with the 67 00:02:14,291 --> 00:02:16,513 permission of enemy forces ? Uh I don't 68 00:02:16,513 --> 00:02:18,513 know . I've never done one of those 69 00:02:18,513 --> 00:02:20,624 operations . I think you just did one 70 00:02:20,624 --> 00:02:20,230 of those operations . I disagree . You 71 00:02:20,230 --> 00:02:23,080 disagree . So you did not withdraw 72 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,810 forces from Afghanistan after a 73 00:02:25,810 --> 00:02:27,977 negotiation with the Taliban . That is 74 00:02:27,977 --> 00:02:30,230 correct . We did not do that . Okay so 75 00:02:30,230 --> 00:02:32,008 this would not be a conditional 76 00:02:32,008 --> 00:02:33,952 surrender , in your opinion . This 77 00:02:33,952 --> 00:02:36,008 would not be a conditional . So what 78 00:02:36,008 --> 00:02:35,430 would you describe the operation ? I 79 00:02:35,430 --> 00:02:37,430 would describe it as a noncombatant 80 00:02:37,430 --> 00:02:39,597 evacuation operation that we conducted 81 00:02:39,597 --> 00:02:41,652 with our own timing and with our own 82 00:02:41,652 --> 00:02:43,819 forces and we warn the taliban that if 83 00:02:43,819 --> 00:02:45,930 they interfered with that operation , 84 00:02:45,930 --> 00:02:48,097 we would strike them hard . They chose 85 00:02:48,097 --> 00:02:47,360 not to interfere with that operation . 86 00:02:47,540 --> 00:02:49,762 Okay , so you're saying the meeting you 87 00:02:49,762 --> 00:02:51,984 had in Doha was just to let the taliban 88 00:02:51,984 --> 00:02:53,984 know this is what we're doing . You 89 00:02:53,984 --> 00:02:56,040 know , take it or leave it . But you 90 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,207 were operating at that point under the 91 00:02:58,207 --> 00:02:58,010 agreement we negotiated with the 92 00:02:58,010 --> 00:03:00,320 Taliban for surrender . Right the Doha 93 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,670 agreement . I was there to tell the 94 00:03:02,670 --> 00:03:04,559 taliban that we were conducting a 95 00:03:04,559 --> 00:03:06,781 noncombatant evacuation operation . But 96 00:03:06,781 --> 00:03:08,837 wait , Neo by D . O . D . Definition 97 00:03:08,837 --> 00:03:10,781 does not definition to include the 98 00:03:10,781 --> 00:03:12,781 evacuation of combatants . You were 99 00:03:12,781 --> 00:03:14,948 also evacuated combatants . So the Neo 100 00:03:14,948 --> 00:03:17,059 was part of the operation actually uh 101 00:03:17,059 --> 00:03:19,170 no you're wrong . When I met with the 102 00:03:19,170 --> 00:03:20,892 Taliban on 15 15 august we had 103 00:03:20,892 --> 00:03:22,948 completed the withdrawal operation . 104 00:03:22,948 --> 00:03:25,170 Further forces that went in were forces 105 00:03:25,170 --> 00:03:27,503 that record to the Neil . And in fact D . 106 00:03:27,503 --> 00:03:29,448 O . D . Doctrine would include the 107 00:03:29,448 --> 00:03:31,559 insertion and extraction of combatant 108 00:03:31,559 --> 00:03:33,559 forces as part of a Neo operation . 109 00:03:33,559 --> 00:03:35,503 What do you call the withdrawal of 110 00:03:35,503 --> 00:03:37,726 combatants ? Whether it happened before 111 00:03:37,726 --> 00:03:39,670 it can be called a retrograde , It 112 00:03:39,670 --> 00:03:41,670 could be called with what was it in 113 00:03:41,670 --> 00:03:41,110 your orders though . What were you 114 00:03:41,110 --> 00:03:43,110 tasked with doing ? I was tasked to 115 00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:44,999 conduct a noncombatant evacuation 116 00:03:44,999 --> 00:03:47,221 operation . What you just said happened 117 00:03:47,221 --> 00:03:49,166 after you had withdrawal withdrawn 118 00:03:49,166 --> 00:03:51,332 forces largely . That's correct . Ok . 119 00:03:51,332 --> 00:03:53,443 And you didn't get tasking , What are 120 00:03:53,443 --> 00:03:55,666 the tasking to withdraw the forces call 121 00:03:55,666 --> 00:03:57,666 that operation ? I would have to go 122 00:03:57,666 --> 00:03:57,140 back and take a look at it . I believe 123 00:03:57,140 --> 00:03:59,720 it was a withdrawal withdrawal . Okay . 124 00:03:59,730 --> 00:04:02,110 Uh which I believe the definition is a 125 00:04:02,110 --> 00:04:04,790 repositioning of forces , I would call 126 00:04:04,790 --> 00:04:06,846 it a conditional surrender . I guess 127 00:04:06,846 --> 00:04:08,790 we'll have to check the dictionary 128 00:04:08,790 --> 00:04:08,790 dictionary definition on that . Just to 129 00:04:08,790 --> 00:04:10,790 go to something that General Milley 130 00:04:10,790 --> 00:04:14,580 said before . Uh has has al Qaeda sworn 131 00:04:14,580 --> 00:04:17,360 by out to the Taliban ? I believe 132 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,471 there's a deep in a deep relationship 133 00:04:19,471 --> 00:04:21,749 between the Taliban . Have they buy it ? 134 00:04:21,749 --> 00:04:23,749 Yes , yes or no . I couldn't answer 135 00:04:23,749 --> 00:04:26,050 that question for you right now . Oh , 136 00:04:26,940 --> 00:04:29,390 I believe General Milley said it before . 137 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,580 Has as the Taliban renounced the 138 00:04:31,590 --> 00:04:34,560 previous oath that al Qaida Taliban and 139 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,782 Al Qaeda have a very close relationship 140 00:04:36,782 --> 00:04:38,782 and I do not expect the Taliban too 141 00:04:38,782 --> 00:04:40,893 seriously interfere with their basing 142 00:04:40,893 --> 00:04:42,838 and repositioning in Afghanistan , 143 00:04:42,838 --> 00:04:44,893 which is I think the question you're 144 00:04:44,893 --> 00:04:44,750 asking . Okay , yeah , let me get a 145 00:04:44,750 --> 00:04:46,583 different way . The new Interior 146 00:04:46,583 --> 00:04:48,750 Minister for the Taliban government is 147 00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:50,806 Sirajuddin Haqqani ? He's a known Al 148 00:04:50,806 --> 00:04:53,028 Qaeda associate . Is there any evidence 149 00:04:53,028 --> 00:04:52,510 that he or the Haqqani network has 150 00:04:52,510 --> 00:04:55,200 broken with Al Qaeda ? None did the 151 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,900 march attack on Fob chapman breached 152 00:04:57,900 --> 00:04:59,956 the Doha agreement in your opinion ? 153 00:05:02,740 --> 00:05:05,590 No , it did not . It did not john 154 00:05:05,590 --> 00:05:07,646 McKenzie , do you know which Taliban 155 00:05:07,646 --> 00:05:09,868 forces were actually providing security 156 00:05:09,868 --> 00:05:12,090 in front of the airport ? Yes , we do . 157 00:05:12,130 --> 00:05:15,090 Was it Badri 3 13 ? They were part of 158 00:05:15,090 --> 00:05:17,257 it ? There were other elements as well 159 00:05:17,257 --> 00:05:19,368 as a hodgepodge of units , but 13 was 160 00:05:19,368 --> 00:05:21,479 among others , among others . A group 161 00:05:21,479 --> 00:05:24,220 specializes in suicide bombing attacks . 162 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:26,520 Had the suicide bomber been in prison ? 163 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,631 I think you suggested a congresswoman 164 00:05:28,631 --> 00:05:30,798 Hartzler that the suicide bomber might 165 00:05:30,798 --> 00:05:33,020 have been imprisoned in bagram before . 166 00:05:33,020 --> 00:05:35,076 Do we know ? I don't believe I don't 167 00:05:35,076 --> 00:05:37,187 recall suggesting . Okay , so what do 168 00:05:37,187 --> 00:05:36,970 we know whether he had been ? We're 169 00:05:36,970 --> 00:05:38,970 still working very hard to find out 170 00:05:38,970 --> 00:05:41,192 where the suicide bomber came from . Do 171 00:05:41,192 --> 00:05:43,359 we have an opportunity to take him out 172 00:05:43,359 --> 00:05:45,470 prior to the suicide bombing attack ? 173 00:05:45,470 --> 00:05:47,248 We did not , we did not have an 174 00:05:47,248 --> 00:05:47,230 opportunity to take him out . And just 175 00:05:47,230 --> 00:05:49,690 finally , does the over horizon posture 176 00:05:49,690 --> 00:05:51,690 that we're now adopting , Will that 177 00:05:51,690 --> 00:05:53,746 require , would that be more or less 178 00:05:53,746 --> 00:05:55,746 difficult now that we're out of the 179 00:05:55,746 --> 00:05:57,912 country , I've said on the record , it 180 00:05:57,912 --> 00:05:57,690 will be very difficult to do . It is 181 00:05:57,690 --> 00:05:59,760 not impossible to do . Next time has 182 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,790 expired . Mr kim is recognized . Thank 183 00:06:02,790 --> 00:06:04,901 you . Mr Chairman General Mackenzie . 184 00:06:04,901 --> 00:06:06,957 Other wanted to start with you , you 185 00:06:06,957 --> 00:06:09,012 said reports about you engaging with 186 00:06:09,012 --> 00:06:11,012 the Taliban about a red line around 187 00:06:11,012 --> 00:06:13,234 Kabul before its fall were false . Does 188 00:06:13,234 --> 00:06:15,401 that mean that there was no discussion 189 00:06:15,401 --> 00:06:17,457 or consideration in the U . S . Of a 190 00:06:17,457 --> 00:06:19,512 plan to defend Kabul in early august 191 00:06:19,512 --> 00:06:22,470 before its fall , there was never a 192 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,702 discussion about a plan to defend Kabul 193 00:06:24,702 --> 00:06:26,869 before its fall . I will say that when 194 00:06:26,869 --> 00:06:29,202 I went to Doha I took with me a graphic , 195 00:06:29,202 --> 00:06:30,980 it was a map of Kabul with a 30 196 00:06:30,980 --> 00:06:32,869 kilometre ring on the outside our 197 00:06:32,869 --> 00:06:35,091 original proposal was that we would ask 198 00:06:35,091 --> 00:06:37,202 the Taliban to stay outside that ring 199 00:06:37,202 --> 00:06:39,480 but we were not going to threaten them . 200 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:39,260 We felt that was the best way to do 201 00:06:39,260 --> 00:06:41,482 deconfliction . However , on the day of 202 00:06:41,482 --> 00:06:43,316 the meeting they were already in 203 00:06:43,316 --> 00:06:45,316 downtown Kabul . So the graphic was 204 00:06:45,316 --> 00:06:47,538 outdated and we had to proceed from the 205 00:06:47,538 --> 00:06:49,427 new reality . Uh Secretary also I 206 00:06:49,427 --> 00:06:51,427 wanted to get your thoughts on this 207 00:06:51,427 --> 00:06:51,230 when I spent some time in the situation 208 00:06:51,230 --> 00:06:54,130 with room with you in 2014 when we were 209 00:06:54,130 --> 00:06:56,450 feeling fear in the fall of Erbil and 210 00:06:56,460 --> 00:06:59,440 Baghdad uh U . S . Centcom commander 211 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,551 immediately draw up some contracts on 212 00:07:01,551 --> 00:07:03,551 defending those positions using air 213 00:07:03,551 --> 00:07:05,718 assets . Uh The effort was to buy time 214 00:07:05,718 --> 00:07:07,829 for the Iraqis and the Iraqi kurds to 215 00:07:07,829 --> 00:07:09,884 reconstitute . Did it not cross your 216 00:07:09,884 --> 00:07:12,107 mind to consider something like that in 217 00:07:12,107 --> 00:07:14,329 early august before the fall of Kabul . 218 00:07:14,329 --> 00:07:17,600 Uh This is certainly something we uh we 219 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,767 considered , you know , we took a look 220 00:07:19,767 --> 00:07:21,933 at what we would need to do to protect 221 00:07:21,933 --> 00:07:24,860 the embassy and if we had to do a neo , 222 00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:27,550 what can we do to buy time for that 223 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,520 operation to take place ? Uh Chairman 224 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,464 Millie , I wanted to switch to you 225 00:07:32,464 --> 00:07:34,409 yesterday . You said that you were 226 00:07:34,409 --> 00:07:36,850 asked on August 25 to make a decision 227 00:07:36,860 --> 00:07:40,740 about the August 31 deadline . Was 228 00:07:40,740 --> 00:07:43,050 there an actual formal request made to 229 00:07:43,050 --> 00:07:45,050 the Taliban by the United States to 230 00:07:45,050 --> 00:07:47,050 stay past August 31 ? Was that a 231 00:07:47,050 --> 00:07:49,520 request that was then denied that you 232 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,298 were taken into account in that 233 00:07:51,298 --> 00:07:53,880 decision ? I don't make decisions 234 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,269 congressman . I provided 235 00:07:55,269 --> 00:07:57,770 recommendations . Ask for what's called 236 00:07:57,770 --> 00:08:01,540 best military advice . I'm not aware of 237 00:08:01,540 --> 00:08:03,762 a formal request to the Taliban one way 238 00:08:03,762 --> 00:08:06,360 or the other on saying past the 31st . 239 00:08:06,740 --> 00:08:09,310 I am very familiar with the advice that 240 00:08:09,310 --> 00:08:12,070 we provided on the 25th before the fall 241 00:08:12,070 --> 00:08:14,650 of Kabul . Do we actually have formal 242 00:08:14,650 --> 00:08:17,120 Taliban agreement upon in August 31 243 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,720 departure date ? I'm not sure what you 244 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,120 mean by formal , but I do . I think 245 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,287 that has there ever been a point where 246 00:08:25,287 --> 00:08:27,398 the United States went to the Taliban 247 00:08:27,398 --> 00:08:29,620 saying that we are planning to leave on 248 00:08:29,620 --> 00:08:31,731 August 31 and I'm talking about prior 249 00:08:31,731 --> 00:08:33,898 to the fall . Of course , I think from 250 00:08:33,898 --> 00:08:35,842 a policy perspective Zal Khalilzad 251 00:08:35,842 --> 00:08:38,064 could give you the detailed information 252 00:08:38,064 --> 00:08:40,270 on that . I do believe the taliban , I 253 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,502 knew that were departing on the 31st we 254 00:08:42,502 --> 00:08:44,724 announced it but you weren't aware of , 255 00:08:44,724 --> 00:08:46,947 I'm not aware of the national agreement 256 00:08:46,947 --> 00:08:49,002 per se . But I think cell kelly said 257 00:08:49,002 --> 00:08:51,002 could give you better definition of 258 00:08:51,002 --> 00:08:53,224 General Mackenzie . I want to turn back 259 00:08:53,224 --> 00:08:52,200 to you then because you were saying 260 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,200 that you talked with the taliban on 261 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,250 august 15th . Did you use August 31 as 262 00:08:57,250 --> 00:08:59,690 a date to end the operations ? Was 263 00:08:59,690 --> 00:09:01,468 there a date set at all in your 264 00:09:01,468 --> 00:09:03,412 discussions with ? I did not use a 265 00:09:03,412 --> 00:09:05,523 specific date when I talked to them . 266 00:09:05,523 --> 00:09:07,746 So no date was set on August 15 . I did 267 00:09:07,746 --> 00:09:09,746 not say I did not convey a specific 268 00:09:09,746 --> 00:09:12,260 date as part of my conversation . The I 269 00:09:12,270 --> 00:09:14,660 want to switch gears one more time here . 270 00:09:14,870 --> 00:09:17,670 Secretary Austin moving forward when 271 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:19,503 we're looking at the fundamental 272 00:09:19,503 --> 00:09:21,392 viability of the over the horizon 273 00:09:21,392 --> 00:09:24,580 effort is the airspace over Afghanistan 274 00:09:24,580 --> 00:09:27,040 currently considered sovereign airspace . 275 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,207 And I guess I was framed in a slightly 276 00:09:29,207 --> 00:09:31,380 different way . Is it currently legal 277 00:09:31,380 --> 00:09:33,658 for the United States to conduct I . S . 278 00:09:33,658 --> 00:09:35,324 R . Sorties and airstrikes in 279 00:09:35,324 --> 00:09:38,860 Afghanistan ? Yes . 280 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,207 Under what authority is that ? Is that 281 00:09:42,207 --> 00:09:44,670 legal Same authorities we were using 282 00:09:44,670 --> 00:09:46,892 before ? Uh and that would be under the 283 00:09:46,892 --> 00:09:48,726 security and defence cooperation 284 00:09:48,726 --> 00:09:50,837 agreement of 2014 , is that correct ? 285 00:09:53,340 --> 00:09:56,990 Uh No . I think 286 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,660 what we're prosecuting now is are the 287 00:10:00,660 --> 00:10:03,570 authorities that were referred to by 288 00:10:03,570 --> 00:10:05,580 General Mackenzie earlier And you 289 00:10:05,580 --> 00:10:07,691 mentioned that you would have to take 290 00:10:07,691 --> 00:10:09,690 that into uh into a a classified 291 00:10:09,690 --> 00:10:12,680 setting . Okay , well , I'll certainly 292 00:10:12,680 --> 00:10:14,624 follow with you that way . General 293 00:10:14,624 --> 00:10:16,513 Mackenzie . Something I wanted to 294 00:10:16,513 --> 00:10:18,569 follow with you on yesterday in your 295 00:10:18,569 --> 00:10:20,624 hearing in front of the Senate . You 296 00:10:20,624 --> 00:10:22,847 made a comment when asked about the war 297 00:10:22,847 --> 00:10:25,013 on terror and you said that the war on 298 00:10:25,013 --> 00:10:27,180 terror is not over . But then you also 299 00:10:27,180 --> 00:10:28,791 went on said that the war in 300 00:10:28,791 --> 00:10:30,791 Afghanistan is not over . So I just 301 00:10:30,791 --> 00:10:33,013 wanted a clarification from you in your 302 00:10:33,013 --> 00:10:35,013 opinion , is the war in Afghanistan 303 00:10:35,013 --> 00:10:36,930 over . So , I believe the war in 304 00:10:36,930 --> 00:10:39,097 Afghanistan is not over . I believe we 305 00:10:39,097 --> 00:10:41,319 are no longer a party to that war , but 306 00:10:41,319 --> 00:10:43,319 that doesn't mean that ISIS and the 307 00:10:43,319 --> 00:10:45,152 Taliban are going to engage in a 308 00:10:45,152 --> 00:10:47,208 furious fight this fall . You know , 309 00:10:47,208 --> 00:10:49,097 that may result in the ISIS being 310 00:10:49,097 --> 00:10:51,319 crushed or it may result . So , you and 311 00:10:51,319 --> 00:10:50,710 you're saying that you're referring 312 00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:52,877 that that you you believe that there's 313 00:10:52,877 --> 00:10:54,488 a civil war in Afghanistan , 314 00:10:54,488 --> 00:10:56,377 Afghanistan . But in terms of the 315 00:10:56,377 --> 00:10:58,599 United States war against Afghanistan , 316 00:10:58,599 --> 00:11:00,654 you would say that that is over . We 317 00:11:00,654 --> 00:11:02,766 have no forces in Afghanistan . Their 318 00:11:02,766 --> 00:11:04,988 only interest in Afghanistan is looking 319 00:11:04,988 --> 00:11:07,043 for , ISIS catches child targets has 320 00:11:07,043 --> 00:11:10,670 expired . Gates is recognized february 321 00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:13,340 26 2020 House Armed Services Committee 322 00:11:13,340 --> 00:11:15,910 General Mark Milley , we know we're not 323 00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:18,077 going to defeat the Taliban militarily 324 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,240 and they're not going to defeat the 325 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,407 government of Afghanistan militarily . 326 00:11:22,540 --> 00:11:24,818 You really blew that call , didn't you ? 327 00:11:24,818 --> 00:11:28,630 General ? I believe that that was 328 00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:31,080 a issue of strategic stalemate and that 329 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,350 if we had remained in Afghanistan with 330 00:11:34,350 --> 00:11:36,517 the advisory levels of effort than the 331 00:11:36,517 --> 00:11:38,461 government of Afghanistan , that's 332 00:11:38,461 --> 00:11:38,410 that's an interesting answer to a 333 00:11:38,410 --> 00:11:40,632 question , it's just not . When I asked 334 00:11:40,632 --> 00:11:42,743 you spent more time with bob Woodward 335 00:11:42,743 --> 00:11:45,750 on this book than you spent analyzing 336 00:11:45,900 --> 00:11:47,960 the very likely prospect that the 337 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,960 Afghanistan government was going to 338 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:51,849 fall immediately to the Taliban . 339 00:11:51,849 --> 00:11:54,071 Didn't you not even close congressman ? 340 00:11:54,071 --> 00:11:56,182 Really ? Because you said right after 341 00:11:56,182 --> 00:11:55,950 Kabul fell that no one could have 342 00:11:55,950 --> 00:11:58,061 anticipated the immediate fall of the 343 00:11:58,061 --> 00:12:00,228 Ghana government . When did you become 344 00:12:00,228 --> 00:12:02,450 aware that joe biden tried to get Ghani 345 00:12:02,450 --> 00:12:04,172 to lie about the conditions in 346 00:12:04,172 --> 00:12:06,394 Afghanistan ? He did that in july . Did 347 00:12:06,394 --> 00:12:08,339 you know that right away ? I'm not 348 00:12:08,339 --> 00:12:10,720 aware of what President biden . You're 349 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,887 not aware of the phone call that biden 350 00:12:12,887 --> 00:12:15,053 had with Ghani ? Where he said whether 351 00:12:15,053 --> 00:12:17,164 it is true or not , we want you to go 352 00:12:17,164 --> 00:12:19,276 out there and paint a rosy picture of 353 00:12:19,276 --> 00:12:19,180 what's going on in Afghanistan . You're 354 00:12:19,180 --> 00:12:21,069 the chief military advisor to the 355 00:12:21,069 --> 00:12:23,180 President . You said that the taliban 356 00:12:23,180 --> 00:12:25,347 was not going to defeat the government 357 00:12:25,347 --> 00:12:27,402 of Afghanistan militarily ? Which by 358 00:12:27,402 --> 00:12:29,569 the way , they cut through them like a 359 00:12:29,569 --> 00:12:29,020 hot knife through butter and then the 360 00:12:29,020 --> 00:12:31,020 president tries to get Donnie lie . 361 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,040 When did you become aware of that ? 362 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,762 Attempt those two things there 363 00:12:34,762 --> 00:12:36,900 congressman ? If I may one is what I 364 00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:39,750 said was the situation with stalemate 365 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,927 and if we kept advisers with their the 366 00:12:41,927 --> 00:12:44,120 government of Afghanistan and the army 367 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,176 would have still been there . That's 368 00:12:46,176 --> 00:12:48,287 what I said . Whether that's right or 369 00:12:48,287 --> 00:12:50,287 wrong . I don't know , but it seems 370 00:12:50,287 --> 00:12:52,453 wrong . Well , we went through all the 371 00:12:52,453 --> 00:12:51,430 we went through all the boston 372 00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:54,200 Secretary Austin . Are you capable of 373 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,990 assessing whether another has the will 374 00:12:56,990 --> 00:13:00,850 to fight ? Okay . 375 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,710 No , we're not . And that's the point 376 00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:05,710 that the chairman made earlier . So 377 00:13:05,710 --> 00:13:07,432 that's just like an incredibly 378 00:13:07,432 --> 00:13:09,543 disappointing thing for the Secretary 379 00:13:09,543 --> 00:13:11,488 of Defense to simply say , I can't 380 00:13:11,488 --> 00:13:13,654 assess whether someone has the will to 381 00:13:13,654 --> 00:13:15,821 fight , but it is consistent with your 382 00:13:15,821 --> 00:13:17,766 record . I mean , during the Obama 383 00:13:17,766 --> 00:13:17,410 administration , I think they gave you 384 00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:18,410 about $48 million 385 00:13:18,410 --> 00:13:22,290 Assad government . 386 00:13:22,290 --> 00:13:24,290 And I think your testimony was that 387 00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:26,512 only four or five survive first contact 388 00:13:26,512 --> 00:13:28,512 with the enemy . So what confidence 389 00:13:28,512 --> 00:13:30,568 should this committee have in you or 390 00:13:30,568 --> 00:13:32,512 should the country having you when 391 00:13:32,512 --> 00:13:34,679 you've now confessed to us and whether 392 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:36,290 it's the swing and a miss in 393 00:13:36,290 --> 00:13:38,457 Afghanistan that General Milley talked 394 00:13:38,457 --> 00:13:40,568 to the Senate about yesterday , total 395 00:13:40,568 --> 00:13:42,790 failure or whether it was your failures 396 00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:44,846 in Syria , you don't seem capable to 397 00:13:44,846 --> 00:13:47,012 look at a fighting force and determine 398 00:13:47,012 --> 00:13:49,179 whether or not they have the will . Is 399 00:13:49,179 --> 00:13:48,850 that an embarrassed call congressman 400 00:13:48,850 --> 00:13:51,860 that the end result was a 401 00:13:52,510 --> 00:13:55,140 the sdf that we stood up that was very , 402 00:13:55,140 --> 00:13:57,780 very instrumental in turning the tide 403 00:13:57,780 --> 00:14:01,300 of a battle up in Syria ? Oh , yeah . 404 00:14:01,310 --> 00:14:03,421 Turn it so much . You've got assad in 405 00:14:03,421 --> 00:14:05,643 power in Syria ? You've got the Taliban 406 00:14:05,643 --> 00:14:07,866 empower in Afghanistan ? I mean , where 407 00:14:07,866 --> 00:14:09,977 have you been the focus was the focus 408 00:14:09,977 --> 00:14:13,480 was Isis congressman and we and those 409 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,170 forces had significant effect on on the 410 00:14:17,170 --> 00:14:19,059 Axis network . It just seems like 411 00:14:19,059 --> 00:14:21,226 you're chronically bad at this and you 412 00:14:21,226 --> 00:14:23,840 have admitted that I guess which is to 413 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,760 your credit . But you know when when 414 00:14:26,770 --> 00:14:29,140 people in the military like Lieutenant 415 00:14:29,140 --> 00:14:31,196 colonel , Stewart , Sheller stand up 416 00:14:31,196 --> 00:14:33,307 and demand accountability . When they 417 00:14:33,307 --> 00:14:35,418 say that you all screwed up when they 418 00:14:35,418 --> 00:14:37,640 point out that General Milley statement 419 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:39,807 that the talent that the government of 420 00:14:39,807 --> 00:14:39,390 Afghanistan is not going to get 421 00:14:39,390 --> 00:14:41,390 defeated by the taliban , well , he 422 00:14:41,390 --> 00:14:43,557 ends up in the brig and you all end up 423 00:14:43,557 --> 00:14:45,779 in front of us and your former employer 424 00:14:45,779 --> 00:14:47,834 Raytheon ends up with a lot of money 425 00:14:47,834 --> 00:14:50,610 and we have poured cash and blood and 426 00:14:50,610 --> 00:14:52,920 credibility into a Ghani government . 427 00:14:52,930 --> 00:14:55,470 That was a mirage . It fell immediately . 428 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,591 And while the guy sitting next to you 429 00:14:57,591 --> 00:14:59,647 was off , you know , talking to Phil 430 00:14:59,647 --> 00:15:01,869 Rucker and was off doing his thing with 431 00:15:01,869 --> 00:15:04,330 bob Woodward , we were buying into the 432 00:15:04,330 --> 00:15:06,640 big lie , the big lie that this that 433 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,807 this was ever going to be successful , 434 00:15:08,807 --> 00:15:10,529 That we could ever rely on the 435 00:15:10,529 --> 00:15:12,696 Afghanistan government for anything at 436 00:15:12,696 --> 00:15:14,807 all . You know , General Miller , you 437 00:15:14,807 --> 00:15:16,918 kind of gave up the game earlier when 438 00:15:16,918 --> 00:15:19,140 you said you wanted to address elements 439 00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:21,251 of your personal conduct that were in 440 00:15:21,251 --> 00:15:21,190 question , were not questioning your 441 00:15:21,190 --> 00:15:24,370 personal conduct , were questioning in 442 00:15:24,380 --> 00:15:26,810 your official capacity going and 443 00:15:26,820 --> 00:15:28,764 undermining the chain of command , 444 00:15:28,764 --> 00:15:30,653 which is obviously what you did , 445 00:15:30,653 --> 00:15:33,150 You've created this whole change . Yeah , 446 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,560 you absolutely did and not . Well , you 447 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,090 know what you said yesterday that you 448 00:15:40,090 --> 00:15:42,201 weren't going to resign when senators 449 00:15:42,201 --> 00:15:44,470 asked you this question and I believe 450 00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:46,581 that you guys probably won't resign . 451 00:15:46,581 --> 00:15:49,270 You seem to be very happy failing up 452 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,620 over there . But if we didn't have a 453 00:15:51,620 --> 00:15:54,710 president that was so addled , you all 454 00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:56,932 would be fired because that is what you 455 00:15:56,932 --> 00:15:59,099 deserve . You have let down the people 456 00:15:59,099 --> 00:16:01,321 who wear the uniform in my district and 457 00:16:01,321 --> 00:16:03,377 all around this country . And you're 458 00:16:03,377 --> 00:16:05,321 far more interested in what you're 459 00:16:05,321 --> 00:16:07,266 perception is and how people think 460 00:16:07,266 --> 00:16:09,543 about you and insider Washington books , 461 00:16:09,543 --> 00:16:11,321 then you care about winning has 462 00:16:11,321 --> 00:16:13,680 incapable of doing . And MS . Hoolahan 463 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,660 is recognized . Thank you . Mr Chair 464 00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:18,670 and gentlemen , I apologize for the 465 00:16:18,670 --> 00:16:21,080 behavior of my colleague . I'm deeply , 466 00:16:21,090 --> 00:16:23,700 deeply appreciative of your service and 467 00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:25,811 of the decades of experience that you 468 00:16:25,811 --> 00:16:28,030 all bring to this conversation . Thank 469 00:16:28,030 --> 00:16:30,280 you so much for the opportunity to ask 470 00:16:30,290 --> 00:16:32,346 important questions of you questions 471 00:16:32,346 --> 00:16:34,401 that ought to be asked of you in the 472 00:16:34,401 --> 00:16:36,179 spirit of our responsibility of 473 00:16:36,179 --> 00:16:38,820 oversight rather than provocation . So 474 00:16:38,820 --> 00:16:40,876 I just have a couple of questions of 475 00:16:40,876 --> 00:16:42,764 clarification from this testimony 476 00:16:42,764 --> 00:16:44,931 that's happened so far . And the first 477 00:16:44,931 --> 00:16:46,987 one is for you , General Mackenzie , 478 00:16:46,987 --> 00:16:48,931 you mentioned something about your 479 00:16:48,931 --> 00:16:51,153 opening remarks about you having looked 480 00:16:51,153 --> 00:16:53,209 at different branches to account for 481 00:16:53,209 --> 00:16:55,153 the complete collapse of of uh the 482 00:16:55,153 --> 00:16:57,209 government and the Afghan military . 483 00:16:57,380 --> 00:16:59,436 That's the first time , frankly that 484 00:16:59,436 --> 00:17:01,158 I've heard that scenario being 485 00:17:01,158 --> 00:17:02,991 articulated out loud most of the 486 00:17:02,991 --> 00:17:05,213 testimony that I've heard prior to this 487 00:17:05,213 --> 00:17:07,436 has been , we could have never foreseen 488 00:17:07,436 --> 00:17:09,713 that . So as somebody who's a decision , 489 00:17:09,713 --> 00:17:11,658 a branching engineer type person , 490 00:17:11,658 --> 00:17:13,880 that's what I do . I'm intrigued to say 491 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,991 to see if that is indeed what you did 492 00:17:15,991 --> 00:17:15,750 have and what the likelihood you put to 493 00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:17,806 that in the cost that you associated 494 00:17:17,806 --> 00:17:19,917 with that would be . So as we drew up 495 00:17:19,917 --> 00:17:22,010 the neo plan , basic one of the 496 00:17:22,010 --> 00:17:24,066 assumptions of the neo plan was that 497 00:17:24,066 --> 00:17:26,370 the Afghan military would be able to 498 00:17:26,370 --> 00:17:29,030 continue to secure HK at the airfield 499 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,262 because the Turks were there . But they 500 00:17:31,262 --> 00:17:33,429 only actually secured a small fraction 501 00:17:33,429 --> 00:17:35,651 of the airfield , maybe 20% of it . The 502 00:17:35,651 --> 00:17:37,818 rest of that long perimeter around the 503 00:17:37,818 --> 00:17:39,929 entire runway was actually secured by 504 00:17:39,929 --> 00:17:41,707 Afghan military forces . So our 505 00:17:41,707 --> 00:17:43,818 assumption was they would continue to 506 00:17:43,818 --> 00:17:46,040 perform that function . But we also , 507 00:17:46,050 --> 00:17:48,161 since we stated that as an assumption 508 00:17:48,161 --> 00:17:50,328 by the way we plan , we have to say if 509 00:17:50,328 --> 00:17:52,328 that assumption is wrong because an 510 00:17:52,328 --> 00:17:54,328 assumption is a future hypothetical 511 00:17:54,328 --> 00:17:56,439 condition that we believe is going to 512 00:17:56,439 --> 00:17:58,217 occur , We felt that was always 513 00:17:58,217 --> 00:18:00,439 something that we should challenge . So 514 00:18:00,439 --> 00:18:02,606 we developed a plan if that assumption 515 00:18:02,606 --> 00:18:04,828 failed if they if they melted away . So 516 00:18:04,828 --> 00:18:07,050 we had a branch plan that was developed 517 00:18:07,050 --> 00:18:09,161 as part of the overall neo plan where 518 00:18:09,161 --> 00:18:11,106 we would introduce adequate combat 519 00:18:11,106 --> 00:18:13,328 forces to physically take over securing 520 00:18:13,328 --> 00:18:15,494 the perimeter of that airfield in case 521 00:18:15,494 --> 00:18:17,717 the A . N . D . S . F . Did melt away . 522 00:18:17,717 --> 00:18:17,240 Well , as we got into the first week of 523 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,407 august , it began to look increasingly 524 00:18:19,407 --> 00:18:21,629 likely that they would melt away . So I 525 00:18:21,629 --> 00:18:23,796 began . So I talked to the secretary , 526 00:18:23,796 --> 00:18:26,018 talked to the chairman and we agreed to 527 00:18:26,018 --> 00:18:27,851 begin to flow forces in for that 528 00:18:27,851 --> 00:18:30,018 contingency . Thank you . And my uh my 529 00:18:30,018 --> 00:18:32,018 question to you related for the all 530 00:18:32,018 --> 00:18:34,184 three of you and perhaps we start with 531 00:18:34,184 --> 00:18:33,660 you general is how long have you 532 00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:35,827 believe that the Afghan military might 533 00:18:35,827 --> 00:18:37,882 not be up to the task of taking over 534 00:18:37,882 --> 00:18:39,938 and maintaining security against the 535 00:18:39,938 --> 00:18:41,716 Taliban . We discussed a lot of 536 00:18:41,716 --> 00:18:43,882 different timelines over the course of 537 00:18:43,882 --> 00:18:45,771 the last few months . Has it been 538 00:18:45,771 --> 00:18:47,882 inevitable for five or 10 years ? How 539 00:18:47,882 --> 00:18:47,500 long have you been relaying that 540 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:49,722 information or that concern possibly to 541 00:18:49,722 --> 00:18:51,722 any of our senior leaders or senior 542 00:18:51,722 --> 00:18:53,722 administration , if you could share 543 00:18:53,722 --> 00:18:55,889 that with us as well , ma'am . So I'll 544 00:18:55,889 --> 00:18:58,000 start thank you . Actually . From the 545 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,111 relatively short term perspective , I 546 00:19:00,111 --> 00:19:01,944 think the Doha agreement and the 547 00:19:01,944 --> 00:19:04,167 signing of the Doha agreement had a had 548 00:19:04,167 --> 00:19:06,056 a really pernicious effect on the 549 00:19:06,056 --> 00:19:08,111 government of Afghanistan and on its 550 00:19:08,111 --> 00:19:09,944 military psychological more than 551 00:19:09,944 --> 00:19:11,833 anything else . But we set a date 552 00:19:11,833 --> 00:19:11,420 certain from when we were going to 553 00:19:11,420 --> 00:19:13,476 leave and when they could expect all 554 00:19:13,476 --> 00:19:15,531 assistance to end . So for the first 555 00:19:15,531 --> 00:19:17,753 time , there was something out there in 556 00:19:17,753 --> 00:19:19,920 front of them . Now . I also , I think 557 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:19,690 that's an important thing . The other 558 00:19:19,690 --> 00:19:21,870 point would be , it's been my position 559 00:19:21,870 --> 00:19:24,220 in my judgment that if we went below an 560 00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:27,360 advisory level of 2500 . I believe that 561 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,360 the government of Afghanistan would 562 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:31,471 likely collapse and that the military 563 00:19:31,471 --> 00:19:33,527 would follow and one might go before 564 00:19:33,527 --> 00:19:33,210 the other . But I believe that was 565 00:19:33,210 --> 00:19:35,266 going to be the inevitable result of 566 00:19:35,266 --> 00:19:37,043 drawing down to zero . And I've 567 00:19:37,043 --> 00:19:39,210 expressed that opinion writing for for 568 00:19:39,210 --> 00:19:41,321 quite a while now . So take a look at 569 00:19:41,321 --> 00:19:43,099 that . That was sort of my best 570 00:19:43,099 --> 00:19:46,390 judgment on that . I believe that . So 571 00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:48,610 going below 2500 I think was the other 572 00:19:48,620 --> 00:19:50,620 sort of nail in the coffin , if you 573 00:19:50,620 --> 00:19:52,620 will , that allowed that the Afghan 574 00:19:52,620 --> 00:19:54,842 government that led to conditions where 575 00:19:54,842 --> 00:19:56,842 first of all we could no longer see 576 00:19:56,842 --> 00:19:59,064 what was happening to the force because 577 00:19:59,064 --> 00:19:58,700 our advisors were no longer down there 578 00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:00,867 with with those units . So let me give 579 00:20:00,867 --> 00:20:02,867 an example . If we shipped a box of 580 00:20:02,867 --> 00:20:05,380 mortar rounds into Afghanistan we would 581 00:20:05,380 --> 00:20:07,830 sign it over on the rampant H Kaaya and 582 00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:09,997 the Afghans were truck it away . There 583 00:20:09,997 --> 00:20:11,997 would be nobody below that level to 584 00:20:11,997 --> 00:20:14,052 help them disperse it . To see if it 585 00:20:14,052 --> 00:20:16,163 went to the bazaar or if we went down 586 00:20:16,163 --> 00:20:16,060 to the unit that needed mortar rounds . 587 00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:18,100 Thank you . I appreciate that . And 588 00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:20,156 Secretary Austin looked like you had 589 00:20:20,156 --> 00:20:22,156 something to contribute as well . I 590 00:20:22,156 --> 00:20:24,100 certainly agree with comments that 591 00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:26,156 General Mackenzie has made . I would 592 00:20:26,156 --> 00:20:28,211 just add to that , that as a part of 593 00:20:28,211 --> 00:20:30,211 that agreement , we agreed to cease 594 00:20:30,211 --> 00:20:32,322 conducting air operations against the 595 00:20:32,322 --> 00:20:34,544 taliban . So the taliban got stronger . 596 00:20:34,544 --> 00:20:36,378 Uh they increase their offensive 597 00:20:36,378 --> 00:20:38,544 operations against the Afghan security 598 00:20:38,544 --> 00:20:40,600 forces and the Afghans were losing a 599 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,860 lot of people on a weekly basis . Uh In 600 00:20:43,860 --> 00:20:46,840 addition to that We uh we caused them 601 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,800 to release 5000 prisoners . Uh you 602 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,040 know and and those prisoners , many of 603 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,460 those prisoners went back to to fill 604 00:20:55,460 --> 00:20:57,627 the ranks of the Taliban . So they got 605 00:20:57,627 --> 00:20:59,793 a lot stronger uh they continued their 606 00:20:59,793 --> 00:21:02,550 attacks . Uh you know , we we got 607 00:21:02,550 --> 00:21:05,740 smaller and so I agree with gentle 608 00:21:05,740 --> 00:21:07,851 Mackenzie , that's when you can begin 609 00:21:07,851 --> 00:21:10,520 to see things really beginning . So 610 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,687 with the last four seconds I very much 611 00:21:12,687 --> 00:21:14,353 appreciate your time and very 612 00:21:14,353 --> 00:21:16,520 intriguing that it seems like the Doha 613 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,520 agreement might have been a pivotal 614 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:17,810 point . And thank you . And with that I 615 00:21:17,810 --> 00:21:19,810 yield back . Thank you . Mr Bacon , 616 00:21:19,810 --> 00:21:23,580 thank you Mr Chairman joe millionaire . 617 00:21:23,580 --> 00:21:25,720 You said today that you saw this as a 618 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,020 strategic failure As a 30-year veteran 619 00:21:29,030 --> 00:21:31,141 and uh someone has been deployed four 620 00:21:31,141 --> 00:21:33,197 times myself and I haven't served as 621 00:21:33,197 --> 00:21:35,120 long as the three of you . But it 622 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:37,009 breaks our heart and I think most 623 00:21:37,009 --> 00:21:39,510 veterans feel heartbroken . No if the 624 00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:42,500 blood and the Treasury spilt was ended 625 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:45,850 up in a strategic failure , I think 626 00:21:45,850 --> 00:21:49,640 we're enraged . Buy it then you have 627 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,610 the President come out and say that 628 00:21:52,610 --> 00:21:55,460 this is a success . He had no regrets . 629 00:21:56,740 --> 00:21:58,740 That doesn't break our heart . That 630 00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:00,907 makes us mad as hell that he would say 631 00:22:00,907 --> 00:22:03,073 it that way . So I want to say that up 632 00:22:03,073 --> 00:22:04,796 front secondly , the fact that 633 00:22:04,796 --> 00:22:08,540 President biden abc So 634 00:22:08,540 --> 00:22:11,040 that no one that he can recall advised 635 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,180 him to keep a force of about 2500 636 00:22:13,180 --> 00:22:17,030 troops in Afghanistan . It's not 637 00:22:17,030 --> 00:22:19,141 true . We heard yesterday we've heard 638 00:22:19,141 --> 00:22:21,197 today that the chairman of the Joint 639 00:22:21,197 --> 00:22:23,030 Chiefs and the centcom commander 640 00:22:23,030 --> 00:22:25,141 advised differently . I have no other 641 00:22:25,141 --> 00:22:27,450 view to see this as a lie 642 00:22:28,940 --> 00:22:31,270 a false falsehood from our president . 643 00:22:32,140 --> 00:22:33,973 That makes us mad . It's all too 644 00:22:35,540 --> 00:22:38,760 thirdly , I think it's important to 645 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,880 point out that this committee for well 646 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,610 over a year caution both presidents 647 00:22:45,670 --> 00:22:47,670 against a premature withdrawal from 648 00:22:47,670 --> 00:22:49,614 Afghanistan . In fact , Republican 649 00:22:49,614 --> 00:22:51,670 Democratic members of both the House 650 00:22:51,670 --> 00:22:53,726 and Senate . We're so concerned that 651 00:22:53,726 --> 00:22:55,948 the risk of a calendar based withdrawal 652 00:22:55,948 --> 00:22:55,480 that we passed a lot of preventative . 653 00:22:55,730 --> 00:22:57,897 In fact the chairman of this committee 654 00:22:57,897 --> 00:23:00,063 voted for when it restricted president 655 00:23:00,063 --> 00:23:02,820 trump section 12 15 of the 2021 . Nd a 656 00:23:02,820 --> 00:23:04,987 prohibited any president regardless of 657 00:23:04,987 --> 00:23:07,209 political party from drawing down below 658 00:23:07,209 --> 00:23:09,153 2500 troops . Tell the secretary , 659 00:23:09,153 --> 00:23:11,042 defense and consultation with the 660 00:23:11,042 --> 00:23:13,209 Secretary of state and the D . N . I . 661 00:23:13,209 --> 00:23:15,098 Provided Congress a detailed plan 662 00:23:15,098 --> 00:23:17,209 explaining how the U . S . Would have 663 00:23:17,209 --> 00:23:19,153 continued to conduct counterterror 664 00:23:19,153 --> 00:23:21,320 operations in Afghanistan following us 665 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,431 withdrawal . How would the US conduct 666 00:23:23,431 --> 00:23:25,320 an orderly transition of security 667 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,376 functions to the Afghan military and 668 00:23:27,376 --> 00:23:29,598 how would the U . S . Protect americans 669 00:23:29,598 --> 00:23:31,709 remain in country . And how would the 670 00:23:31,709 --> 00:23:33,876 US coordinate any such withdrawal with 671 00:23:33,876 --> 00:23:36,098 our NATO allies in short , every single 672 00:23:36,098 --> 00:23:35,790 failure that we are now witnessing . 673 00:23:35,790 --> 00:23:38,060 Congress warned against and writing in 674 00:23:38,060 --> 00:23:40,760 the law over a year ago . But after 675 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,640 taking office , President Biden 676 00:23:43,650 --> 00:23:45,817 referring to wrote to the vitamin , we 677 00:23:45,817 --> 00:23:47,983 wrote to the vitamin station reminding 678 00:23:47,983 --> 00:23:50,206 them that was not permitted to go below 679 00:23:50,206 --> 00:23:52,261 2500 until it provided assurances to 680 00:23:52,261 --> 00:23:54,428 Congress . Their vital interests could 681 00:23:54,428 --> 00:23:56,594 be secured despite clear congressional 682 00:23:56,594 --> 00:23:58,817 intent backed by statute . This did not 683 00:23:58,817 --> 00:24:00,872 happen the day after taking office , 684 00:24:00,872 --> 00:24:02,983 the newly confirmed undersecretary of 685 00:24:02,983 --> 00:24:05,150 Defense for policy Colin Kyle wrote to 686 00:24:05,150 --> 00:24:06,817 the members of this committee 687 00:24:06,817 --> 00:24:09,039 essentially stating the president biden 688 00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:11,261 was smarter than Congress was confident 689 00:24:11,261 --> 00:24:11,080 he had all the angles covered and 690 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,024 believe it was not in the national 691 00:24:13,024 --> 00:24:15,136 interest to provide Congress with the 692 00:24:15,136 --> 00:24:17,302 assurances required in section 12 15 . 693 00:24:17,302 --> 00:24:19,524 Mr . Chairman , I ask unanimous consent 694 00:24:19,524 --> 00:24:21,580 to enter this letter into the record 695 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,010 without objection . So ordered my first 696 00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:26,187 question here , joe McKenzie , I think 697 00:24:26,187 --> 00:24:28,160 one of the reasons that the Afghan 698 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,460 forces crumbled much quicker than we 699 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,520 ever assessed was that we pulled most 700 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,160 of our air cover . We took the 701 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,960 mechanics away from the Afghan forces 702 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:40,842 and we pulled out a lot of our 703 00:24:40,842 --> 00:24:43,520 logistics capabilities . Do you see 704 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,464 this as underlying reasons why the 705 00:24:45,464 --> 00:24:47,576 Afghan forces collapsed . I think all 706 00:24:47,576 --> 00:24:49,576 of those reasons contributed to why 707 00:24:49,576 --> 00:24:51,798 they collapsed . Even surprised us when 708 00:24:51,798 --> 00:24:54,060 we take away most of our air power that 709 00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:56,060 they were used to having , but they 710 00:24:56,060 --> 00:24:57,893 would just pull the rug out from 711 00:24:57,893 --> 00:25:00,004 underneath them . General . Well , my 712 00:25:00,004 --> 00:25:02,227 position all along has been , if you if 713 00:25:02,227 --> 00:25:04,338 you go to zero , if you go to a state 714 00:25:04,338 --> 00:25:03,730 where you're not going to be able to 715 00:25:03,730 --> 00:25:05,841 maintain their forces on the ground , 716 00:25:05,841 --> 00:25:08,008 that a collapse is inevitable , I have 717 00:25:08,008 --> 00:25:09,897 to further say . I did not see it 718 00:25:09,897 --> 00:25:12,119 coming as fast as it did . I thought it 719 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,230 would be a matter of into the fall or 720 00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:16,174 into the winter . I did not see it 721 00:25:16,174 --> 00:25:18,286 happened in 11 days in August . Thank 722 00:25:18,286 --> 00:25:20,452 you , joe melia appreciate your candor 723 00:25:20,452 --> 00:25:22,619 about this being a strategic failure . 724 00:25:22,619 --> 00:25:24,786 How does this embolden al Qaeda Isis ? 725 00:25:24,786 --> 00:25:24,220 How does , what does it do to Russia 726 00:25:24,220 --> 00:25:26,450 china and Iran seeing how we responded 727 00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:29,850 in this retreat , I think the 728 00:25:30,740 --> 00:25:32,820 Taliban city in Kabul significantly 729 00:25:32,820 --> 00:25:34,960 emboldens the radical jihadi movement 730 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,750 globally . Um , the analogy I've used 731 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,040 with many others is that likely will 732 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,760 put a shot of adrenaline into their arm . 733 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,184 Uh their grandfathers defeated the 734 00:25:45,184 --> 00:25:47,351 soviet union in the war in Afghanistan 735 00:25:47,351 --> 00:25:49,610 many , many years ago uh and they are 736 00:25:49,610 --> 00:25:51,832 taking this on their own networks right 737 00:25:51,832 --> 00:25:54,320 now and declaring it a major victory . 738 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,487 So I think it's a big morale boost . I 739 00:25:56,487 --> 00:25:58,598 think it remains to be seen . I think 740 00:25:58,598 --> 00:26:00,598 the Russians are quite scared , not 741 00:26:00,598 --> 00:26:04,550 scared , I guess concerned of 742 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,096 terrorists coming across the borders 743 00:26:07,096 --> 00:26:09,151 into their near abroad china is very 744 00:26:09,151 --> 00:26:10,890 complicated . Uh they've got a 745 00:26:10,890 --> 00:26:13,420 significant issue in their western , uh , 746 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,742 or in the western part of the country . 747 00:26:15,742 --> 00:26:18,310 Um , I think Iran now has to deal with 748 00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:20,199 a very complicated issue on their 749 00:26:20,199 --> 00:26:22,477 border That may or may not be friendly . 750 00:26:22,477 --> 00:26:24,532 Gentleman's time has expired yield . 751 00:26:24,532 --> 00:26:26,754 And I do want to want to want to make a 752 00:26:26,754 --> 00:26:26,680 comment because I actually watched the 753 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,000 George Stephanopoulos interview before 754 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,130 this hearing with joe biden did not say 755 00:26:32,140 --> 00:26:34,196 that no one suggested that we should 756 00:26:34,196 --> 00:26:37,010 keep 2500 troops . I read the quote , I 757 00:26:37,020 --> 00:26:39,131 have the toughest moment . I have the 758 00:26:39,131 --> 00:26:42,860 time and what he said was , 759 00:26:43,540 --> 00:26:45,800 You cannot have 2500 troops stay there 760 00:26:45,810 --> 00:26:49,060 in a stable situation . So we should at 761 00:26:49,060 --> 00:26:50,680 least be accurate about what 762 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,902 information was provided . I would urge 763 00:26:52,902 --> 00:26:55,013 everyone to go back and actually look 764 00:26:55,013 --> 00:26:57,236 at the words and not take what is being 765 00:26:57,236 --> 00:26:59,513 said here as accurate . Chairman quote . 766 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,550 I read it too and I read it with a 767 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,893 clear open vision of what he was saying . 768 00:27:04,893 --> 00:27:06,893 Not with event to try and make sure 769 00:27:06,893 --> 00:27:08,782 that we could successfully have a 770 00:27:08,782 --> 00:27:11,170 partisan attack on him . He was asked 771 00:27:11,540 --> 00:27:13,630 could they stay there in a stable 772 00:27:13,630 --> 00:27:15,860 environment ? That is the option . He 773 00:27:15,860 --> 00:27:17,749 said it wasn't on the table . Not 774 00:27:17,749 --> 00:27:19,971 because it wasn't offered , But because 775 00:27:19,971 --> 00:27:21,920 it didn't exist . And while we're 776 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,920 ripping apart these three gentlemen 777 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,270 here , I want to remind everybody that 778 00:27:26,270 --> 00:27:28,500 the decision the president made was to 779 00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:31,990 stop fighting a war that after 20 years 780 00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:35,000 it was proven we could not win . There 781 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,760 was no easy way to do that . If Mr 782 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,816 Human , I believe that General Bacon 783 00:27:40,816 --> 00:27:42,816 was clear . He had to be defended . 784 00:27:42,816 --> 00:27:45,460 Thank you . Happy to yield . Mr Rogers 785 00:27:45,460 --> 00:27:46,793 time . When I am done . 786 00:27:49,340 --> 00:27:51,490 What he made clear was we needed to 787 00:27:51,490 --> 00:27:55,240 stop fighting a war that for 20 years 788 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,407 we've had these conversations over and 789 00:27:57,407 --> 00:27:59,600 over again . Democrats bash on the 790 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,600 Republican president more than they 791 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,767 bash . And the Democratic presidents , 792 00:28:03,767 --> 00:28:05,767 republicans bash and the Democratic 793 00:28:05,767 --> 00:28:07,878 presidents more than they bash on the 794 00:28:07,878 --> 00:28:09,878 Republican presidents . But the end 795 00:28:09,878 --> 00:28:11,822 result was the same 20 years of an 796 00:28:11,822 --> 00:28:13,822 endless series of decisions by very 797 00:28:13,822 --> 00:28:16,000 intelligent , very capable , very 798 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,330 committed people . Any implication that 799 00:28:18,330 --> 00:28:20,497 the three gentlemen in front of us are 800 00:28:20,497 --> 00:28:22,719 not very capable , very intelligent and 801 00:28:22,719 --> 00:28:24,608 very committed to this country is 802 00:28:24,608 --> 00:28:27,950 simply partisan political opportunism . 803 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,200 We can look at 20 years . Pick your 804 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,311 favorite general , pick your favorite 805 00:28:33,311 --> 00:28:35,533 president , Pick your favorite leader . 806 00:28:35,533 --> 00:28:38,570 Okay . None of them could successfully 807 00:28:38,570 --> 00:28:40,348 do what so many members of this 808 00:28:40,348 --> 00:28:42,570 committee . You're sitting here telling 809 00:28:42,570 --> 00:28:44,737 these gentlemen that they're basically 810 00:28:44,737 --> 00:28:46,792 idiots for not being able to do . We 811 00:28:46,792 --> 00:28:48,737 should pause for just a moment and 812 00:28:48,737 --> 00:28:50,903 think about the fact that maybe that's 813 00:28:50,903 --> 00:28:53,220 the wrong argument . Maybe the mission 814 00:28:53,230 --> 00:28:56,310 itself was really hard to 815 00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:59,150 achieve . And what President biden said 816 00:28:59,150 --> 00:29:01,860 is we're done . We're not going to have 817 00:29:01,860 --> 00:29:03,804 these hearings anymore . We're not 818 00:29:03,804 --> 00:29:05,860 going to have the funerals anymore . 819 00:29:05,860 --> 00:29:07,693 We're not gonna lose the service 820 00:29:07,693 --> 00:29:09,693 members fighting a war . That it is 821 00:29:09,693 --> 00:29:12,110 clearer , we cannot be successful . And 822 00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:14,277 we all pick nits on this decision with 823 00:29:14,277 --> 00:29:16,610 that decision . Why didn't you say this ? 824 00:29:16,610 --> 00:29:18,790 Why didn't do that ? 20 years of a 825 00:29:18,790 --> 00:29:21,450 whole lot of different people leading 826 00:29:21,730 --> 00:29:24,420 has led us to this point . And we said 827 00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:27,140 we're going to stop Mr Chairman . This 828 00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:29,372 this inconceivable they're bringing the 829 00:29:29,372 --> 00:29:31,483 war here . The war is not over . It's 830 00:29:31,483 --> 00:29:33,539 coming to America . The funerals are 831 00:29:33,539 --> 00:29:35,594 here . Mr Chairman , and we count on 832 00:29:35,594 --> 00:29:37,428 you and your leadership in these 833 00:29:37,428 --> 00:29:39,594 generals to know the war is not over . 834 00:29:39,594 --> 00:29:41,817 It is a point of order Chairman . We're 835 00:29:41,817 --> 00:29:44,039 not done with this war . The point is , 836 00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:46,206 yes , we are going to have to continue 837 00:29:46,206 --> 00:29:48,428 to contain this threat and 20 years was 838 00:29:48,940 --> 00:29:50,820 an excuse for the failure of the 839 00:29:50,820 --> 00:29:53,180 withdrawal was not succeeded . Mr 840 00:29:53,180 --> 00:29:55,458 Chairman point have to make that point . 841 00:29:55,458 --> 00:29:57,624 Mr Rogers is the ranking member on the 842 00:29:57,624 --> 00:29:59,791 committee and I will give him the time 843 00:29:59,791 --> 00:30:01,958 to respond . Thank you . Mr Chairman . 844 00:30:01,958 --> 00:30:05,110 Uh I did note the 845 00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:07,950 Stephanopoulos interview and I disagree 846 00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:09,770 with your interpretation . Mr . 847 00:30:09,770 --> 00:30:11,937 Stephanopoulos came back and asked him 848 00:30:11,937 --> 00:30:14,103 again . So you're saying that nobody , 849 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,296 I advise you to leave the troops and 850 00:30:16,296 --> 00:30:18,518 that was his response . But I think the 851 00:30:18,518 --> 00:30:20,518 general officers here and Secretary 852 00:30:20,518 --> 00:30:22,684 have made it very clear that they gave 853 00:30:22,684 --> 00:30:24,907 the President a device that he wouldn't 854 00:30:24,907 --> 00:30:26,962 we're done . We're not going to have 855 00:30:26,962 --> 00:30:28,907 these hearings anymore . We're not 856 00:30:28,907 --> 00:30:30,962 going to have the funerals anymore . 857 00:30:30,962 --> 00:30:32,796 We're not gonna lose the service 858 00:30:32,796 --> 00:30:34,796 members fighting a war . That it is 859 00:30:34,796 --> 00:30:36,907 clearer , We cannot be successful and 860 00:30:36,907 --> 00:30:39,073 we all pick nits on this decision with 861 00:30:39,073 --> 00:30:41,240 that decision . Why did you say this ? 862 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,184 Why didn't do that ? 20 years of a 863 00:30:43,184 --> 00:30:45,720 whole lot of different people leading 864 00:30:46,030 --> 00:30:48,690 has led us to this point and we said 865 00:30:48,690 --> 00:30:51,420 we're going to stop MR Chairman . This 866 00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:53,541 this inconceivable . They're bringing 867 00:30:53,541 --> 00:30:55,597 the war here . The war is not over . 868 00:30:55,597 --> 00:30:57,708 It's coming to America . The funerals 869 00:30:57,708 --> 00:30:59,874 are here . Mr Chairman and we count on 870 00:30:59,874 --> 00:31:01,874 you and your leadership generals to 871 00:31:01,874 --> 00:31:03,819 know the war is not over . It is a 872 00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:06,211 point of order . Chairman . We're not 873 00:31:06,211 --> 00:31:08,840 done with this war . The point is , yes , 874 00:31:08,850 --> 00:31:10,850 we are going to have to continue to 875 00:31:10,850 --> 00:31:12,961 contain this threat . And 20 years as 876 00:31:13,220 --> 00:31:15,120 an excuse for the failure of the 877 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,231 withdrawal stand was not succeeding . 878 00:31:17,390 --> 00:31:19,500 Chairman has to make that point . Mr 879 00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:21,500 Rogers is the ranking member on the 880 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:23,667 committee and I will give him the time 881 00:31:23,667 --> 00:31:25,890 to respond . Thank you . Mr Chairman . 882 00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:29,410 Uh I did note the 883 00:31:29,410 --> 00:31:32,250 Stephanopoulos interview and I disagree 884 00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:34,070 with your interpretation . Mr . 885 00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:36,237 Stephanopoulos came back and asked him 886 00:31:36,237 --> 00:31:38,403 again . So you're saying that nobody , 887 00:31:38,540 --> 00:31:40,596 I advise you to leave the troops and 888 00:31:40,596 --> 00:31:42,818 that was his response . But I think the 889 00:31:42,818 --> 00:31:44,818 general officers here and Secretary 890 00:31:44,818 --> 00:31:46,984 have made it very clear that they gave 891 00:31:46,984 --> 00:31:49,207 the President a device that he wouldn't 892 00:31:49,207 --> 00:31:51,207 listen to the last president . They 893 00:31:51,207 --> 00:31:53,540 gave him advice and he did listen to it . 894 00:31:53,540 --> 00:31:55,762 So , I mean , I'm not challenging and I 895 00:31:55,762 --> 00:31:57,818 have not in any way disparaged these 896 00:31:57,818 --> 00:31:59,707 great gentlemen . In fact , in my 897 00:31:59,707 --> 00:32:01,873 opening remarks , I made it abundantly 898 00:32:01,873 --> 00:32:03,984 clear . I don't want them shouldering 899 00:32:03,984 --> 00:32:05,873 blame for what happened when this 900 00:32:05,873 --> 00:32:05,650 withdrawal , when it was the 901 00:32:05,650 --> 00:32:07,872 administration and the State Department 902 00:32:07,872 --> 00:32:09,817 of National Security adviser . And 903 00:32:09,817 --> 00:32:11,770 without a minute to uh Bacon . 904 00:32:14,540 --> 00:32:17,360 Yeah , Mr Crowe was recognized . 905 00:32:18,540 --> 00:32:21,310 Thank you . Mr . Chairman dovetailing 906 00:32:21,310 --> 00:32:23,620 on Chairman smith's comment . I just 907 00:32:23,620 --> 00:32:26,320 can't help but think back To my last 908 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,900 deployment in Afghanistan in 2005 . And 909 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:32,420 there was a moment where I had been 910 00:32:32,420 --> 00:32:35,650 awake for several days walking with a 911 00:32:35,650 --> 00:32:37,960 heavy rucksack in the mountains of 912 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,050 Afghanistan and wondering and asking 913 00:32:41,050 --> 00:32:44,520 myself where was the debate ? Why 914 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,520 weren't people asking the questions 915 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,240 then ? Why weren't people paying 916 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,860 attention ? And I'm glad they are now 917 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,718 and I'm glad we are having this debate . 918 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,673 But as Chairman smith adequately 919 00:32:57,673 --> 00:32:59,840 pointed out , we could have been doing 920 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,810 this a long time ago . Four 921 00:33:01,810 --> 00:33:03,643 administrations , Republican and 922 00:33:03,643 --> 00:33:05,840 Democrat , 10 Congresses , Republican 923 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,750 and Democrat . This is a 20 year 924 00:33:08,750 --> 00:33:11,150 conflict that our country owns . We 925 00:33:11,150 --> 00:33:13,150 have to have a broader discussion . 926 00:33:13,150 --> 00:33:15,490 It's not a two month conflict and I 927 00:33:15,490 --> 00:33:17,730 appreciate your candor and I appreciate 928 00:33:17,730 --> 00:33:19,952 the seriousness with which all three of 929 00:33:19,952 --> 00:33:22,063 you have dealt with us . So with that 930 00:33:22,063 --> 00:33:24,286 in mind the fact that there are serious 931 00:33:24,286 --> 00:33:26,286 issues that should be addressed . I 932 00:33:26,286 --> 00:33:28,286 have two lines of questioning . One 933 00:33:28,286 --> 00:33:30,452 about are continuing obligation to our 934 00:33:30,452 --> 00:33:32,230 partners and the next about the 935 00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:35,090 planning in advance of the evacuation . 936 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,270 Now I want to start the partner 937 00:33:38,270 --> 00:33:40,850 question with the recognition that I 938 00:33:40,850 --> 00:33:44,260 believe firmly that all three of you 939 00:33:44,270 --> 00:33:47,020 share as deeply as I do , a sense that 940 00:33:47,020 --> 00:33:49,242 we have a continuing obligation because 941 00:33:49,242 --> 00:33:52,230 all three of you served and I know that 942 00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:54,930 all three of you have friends who are 943 00:33:54,930 --> 00:33:58,480 still there . They have names and faces . 944 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,929 So I'm not going to question your 945 00:34:00,929 --> 00:34:03,350 commitment to this . The department has 946 00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:05,750 a very narrow but important role going 947 00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:08,600 forward here . And that role is to 948 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,450 provide employment verification to 949 00:34:11,450 --> 00:34:14,100 folks so they can be properly vetted 950 00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:17,140 and evacuated . That's very hard to do 951 00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:19,196 without boots on the ground now . So 952 00:34:19,196 --> 00:34:21,880 what can the department do more going 953 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,890 forward And what is the plan to do that 954 00:34:24,890 --> 00:34:26,890 employment verification to get that 955 00:34:26,890 --> 00:34:29,001 paperwork in the hands of our friends 956 00:34:29,001 --> 00:34:30,723 so we can get them evacuated ? 957 00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:37,090 One of my , my under secretary 958 00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:40,860 is leading an effort to ensure that , 959 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,090 That we can help improve the 960 00:34:45,090 --> 00:34:48,490 process of employment verification . If 961 00:34:48,490 --> 00:34:51,750 you think back 20 years , you know ago 962 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,927 when people were actually helping us , 963 00:34:53,927 --> 00:34:56,038 helping contractors that were working 964 00:34:56,038 --> 00:34:59,970 for us some of the documentation very , 965 00:34:59,970 --> 00:35:02,192 very difficult to get get your hands on 966 00:35:02,192 --> 00:35:04,530 now . So we're working to see what we 967 00:35:04,530 --> 00:35:07,330 can do to improve this . Uh , we want 968 00:35:07,330 --> 00:35:10,180 to work with , uh , with Congress , uh , 969 00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:12,500 to uh , to , if there's any way that we 970 00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:15,960 can adjust , um , requirements or 971 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,610 adjust , you know , our ability 972 00:35:19,610 --> 00:35:21,800 to to ease this process along . We 973 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,856 certainly want to do that . But this 974 00:35:23,856 --> 00:35:26,022 we're taking this on in a very serious 975 00:35:26,022 --> 00:35:28,790 way . I appreciate that we stand ready 976 00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:30,846 and willing to continue to work with 977 00:35:30,846 --> 00:35:33,068 you to solve this because certainly our 978 00:35:33,068 --> 00:35:35,340 combat operations are over but we have 979 00:35:35,340 --> 00:35:37,562 that continued obligation , as you have 980 00:35:37,562 --> 00:35:39,451 often noted the last is about the 981 00:35:39,451 --> 00:35:41,507 evacuation planning . There were two 982 00:35:41,507 --> 00:35:43,618 tabletop rehearsals , one in june and 983 00:35:43,618 --> 00:35:47,470 when in august the uh june 984 00:35:47,470 --> 00:35:50,670 11th one uh dealt with the processing 985 00:35:50,670 --> 00:35:52,960 of evacuees , these are inter agencies , 986 00:35:52,970 --> 00:35:55,120 interagency tabletop exercises that 987 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,231 involve the Department of State . The 988 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,950 august 6th one . My understanding dealt 989 00:36:00,950 --> 00:36:03,117 with scenarios for both permissive and 990 00:36:03,117 --> 00:36:05,490 a non permissive . Neo So for the 991 00:36:05,490 --> 00:36:08,350 August six tabletop , the State 992 00:36:08,350 --> 00:36:10,128 Department was involved in that 993 00:36:10,128 --> 00:36:12,183 tabletop coming out of that tabletop 994 00:36:12,183 --> 00:36:14,239 exercise that the department have in 995 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:15,739 your opinion , an adequate 996 00:36:15,739 --> 00:36:17,406 understanding as to the State 997 00:36:17,406 --> 00:36:20,510 Department's plan enroll to conduct 998 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,930 vetting and processing of evacuees at H . 999 00:36:23,930 --> 00:36:27,100 Kaaya , I believe they did . But I also 1000 00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:30,690 urged state , I felt that by nature the 1001 00:36:30,690 --> 00:36:32,690 Department of Defense can move very 1002 00:36:32,690 --> 00:36:34,857 fast on issues like this . I felt that 1003 00:36:34,857 --> 00:36:36,857 we were not completely aligned with 1004 00:36:36,857 --> 00:36:36,700 state on that there were still some 1005 00:36:36,700 --> 00:36:38,589 things they could do faster and I 1006 00:36:38,589 --> 00:36:40,700 believe they tried their very best to 1007 00:36:40,700 --> 00:36:42,811 address those , particularly in terms 1008 00:36:42,811 --> 00:36:42,810 of providing additional processing 1009 00:36:42,810 --> 00:36:44,840 power if you will to move people 1010 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,618 through the chain from from the 1011 00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:48,731 consular officers and other people to 1012 00:36:48,731 --> 00:36:50,898 moving forward . State representatives 1013 00:36:50,898 --> 00:36:52,676 took that message on board very 1014 00:36:52,676 --> 00:36:54,842 seriously at the table top exercises . 1015 00:36:54,842 --> 00:36:57,009 So the lack of complete alignment , in 1016 00:36:57,009 --> 00:36:59,231 your view has to do with the processing 1017 00:36:59,231 --> 00:37:01,064 power that was necessary to push 1018 00:37:01,064 --> 00:37:03,009 forward on the ground . There were 1019 00:37:03,009 --> 00:37:05,176 probably other things that was from my 1020 00:37:05,176 --> 00:37:05,160 perspective as the who's gonna be 1021 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,640 responsible for identifying people 1022 00:37:07,650 --> 00:37:09,817 getting him out of Afghanistan and get 1023 00:37:09,817 --> 00:37:12,150 him into getting them into the pipeline . 1024 00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:14,039 That's what I was personally most 1025 00:37:14,039 --> 00:37:15,983 concerned about . There were other 1026 00:37:15,983 --> 00:37:18,150 issues that was my principal concern . 1027 00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:20,206 Thank you . Mr Chairman of your back 1028 00:37:20,206 --> 00:37:22,428 congressman Carl . If I could just just 1029 00:37:22,428 --> 00:37:24,594 to other sessions before that 28 april 1030 00:37:24,594 --> 00:37:26,650 and eight may I think we all use the 1031 00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:29,240 gentleman's time has expired . I now 1032 00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:31,351 recognize Mr Banks for five minutes . 1033 00:37:31,351 --> 00:37:33,518 Thank you . General Milley , why is it 1034 00:37:33,518 --> 00:37:35,573 important for the military to be non 1035 00:37:35,573 --> 00:37:37,530 political ? I think in a political 1036 00:37:37,530 --> 00:37:39,641 military is critical to the health of 1037 00:37:39,641 --> 00:37:42,990 this republic general . Why why did you 1038 00:37:42,990 --> 00:37:44,823 spend you've already established 1039 00:37:44,823 --> 00:37:46,712 yesterday and today . You spent a 1040 00:37:46,712 --> 00:37:46,620 significant amount of time talking to . 1041 00:37:46,620 --> 00:37:48,730 Book political book authors and 1042 00:37:48,730 --> 00:37:50,619 political reporters including bob 1043 00:37:50,619 --> 00:37:52,619 Woodward . What compelled you to do 1044 00:37:52,619 --> 00:37:56,580 that ? I believe that part of my job is 1045 00:37:56,580 --> 00:37:59,280 to communicate to the media what we do 1046 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,169 as a government , what we do as a 1047 00:38:01,169 --> 00:38:03,391 military to explain to the people . And 1048 00:38:03,391 --> 00:38:05,770 so I do interviews regularly with print 1049 00:38:05,770 --> 00:38:09,530 media , books , documentaries , videos 1050 00:38:09,530 --> 00:38:12,550 on tv T . V . Interviews . It's I think 1051 00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:14,717 it's part of a senior officials job to 1052 00:38:14,717 --> 00:38:16,883 be transparent and I believe in a free 1053 00:38:16,883 --> 00:38:18,828 press what happens when a military 1054 00:38:18,828 --> 00:38:21,380 general becomes a political figure ? I 1055 00:38:21,380 --> 00:38:23,380 have you would understand you would 1056 00:38:23,380 --> 00:38:25,491 agree that's dangerous . I think it's 1057 00:38:25,491 --> 00:38:27,547 dangerous and I have done my best to 1058 00:38:27,547 --> 00:38:29,658 remain personally a political and try 1059 00:38:29,658 --> 00:38:31,602 to keep the military out of actual 1060 00:38:31,602 --> 00:38:33,769 domestic politics . And I made a point 1061 00:38:33,769 --> 00:38:35,713 of that from the time I became the 1062 00:38:35,713 --> 00:38:37,880 chairman and especially beginning last 1063 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,991 summer you told us , yes you told the 1064 00:38:39,991 --> 00:38:42,047 Senate yesterday you hadn't read the 1065 00:38:42,047 --> 00:38:43,991 book or any of the other political 1066 00:38:43,991 --> 00:38:46,158 books that have come out . But I don't 1067 00:38:46,158 --> 00:38:45,930 know how anybody could read the bob 1068 00:38:45,930 --> 00:38:47,986 Woodward book . I don't know how you 1069 00:38:47,986 --> 00:38:49,819 could read it and not be greatly 1070 00:38:49,819 --> 00:38:51,652 embarrassed about his contents . 1071 00:38:51,652 --> 00:38:53,819 Especially in what how it's related to 1072 00:38:53,819 --> 00:38:56,041 you . Are you embarrassed by the book ? 1073 00:38:56,041 --> 00:38:58,152 I haven't read the book yet . Are you 1074 00:38:58,152 --> 00:39:00,208 embarrassed by the portrayals of the 1075 00:39:00,208 --> 00:39:00,040 book ? No doubt you're aware of them 1076 00:39:00,710 --> 00:39:02,654 embarrassed now I'm concerned that 1077 00:39:02,654 --> 00:39:05,380 there is a mischaracterizations of me 1078 00:39:05,380 --> 00:39:07,158 becoming very politicized as an 1079 00:39:07,158 --> 00:39:09,269 individual . That it's my willingness 1080 00:39:09,269 --> 00:39:11,324 to become politicized . Which is not 1081 00:39:11,324 --> 00:39:13,491 true . I am trying to stay a political 1082 00:39:13,491 --> 00:39:15,547 and I believe I am that's part of my 1083 00:39:15,547 --> 00:39:17,602 professional ethic and I'm trying to 1084 00:39:17,602 --> 00:39:19,713 keep the military the actual military 1085 00:39:19,713 --> 00:39:21,713 out of actual domestic politics . I 1086 00:39:21,713 --> 00:39:23,824 think that's probably regret speaking 1087 00:39:23,824 --> 00:39:25,824 with bob Woodward . No I think that 1088 00:39:25,824 --> 00:39:27,936 it's important for me to speak to the 1089 00:39:27,936 --> 00:39:29,991 media . I want to talk about some of 1090 00:39:29,991 --> 00:39:29,330 the contents of the books . Since you 1091 00:39:29,330 --> 00:39:31,552 haven't read it . Maybe I can read some 1092 00:39:31,552 --> 00:39:33,608 of it to you . We've already heard a 1093 00:39:33,608 --> 00:39:35,608 little bit about the back and forth 1094 00:39:35,608 --> 00:39:37,663 with you and Speaker Pelosi . But in 1095 00:39:37,663 --> 00:39:39,719 that conversation , um you said in a 1096 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,380 phone call with Speaker Pelosi . Um 1097 00:39:43,390 --> 00:39:47,240 she she said quote republicans 1098 00:39:47,250 --> 00:39:49,139 are enablers of president trump's 1099 00:39:49,139 --> 00:39:52,090 behavior . You know , he's crazy . He's 1100 00:39:52,090 --> 00:39:54,680 been crazy for a long time . You 1101 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,530 replied . I agree with you on 1102 00:39:56,540 --> 00:39:59,170 everything . That was repeated three 1103 00:39:59,170 --> 00:40:01,170 times in the prologue of the book . 1104 00:40:01,170 --> 00:40:03,448 Peril that you you told Speaker Pelosi . 1105 00:40:03,448 --> 00:40:05,559 You agree with her on everything . Is 1106 00:40:05,559 --> 00:40:07,503 that an accurate portrayal of your 1107 00:40:07,503 --> 00:40:09,670 recounting to bob Woodward about those 1108 00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:12,660 conversations ? Not exactly . No , I 1109 00:40:12,660 --> 00:40:14,770 think that in fact I know what I did 1110 00:40:14,770 --> 00:40:17,290 wrong , in fact betrayal wrong . In 1111 00:40:17,290 --> 00:40:19,760 fact , I know what I said , which was 1112 00:40:19,770 --> 00:40:23,550 Madam Speaker , I am not qualified to 1113 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,671 determine the mental health or assess 1114 00:40:25,671 --> 00:40:27,616 the mental health . Just President 1115 00:40:27,616 --> 00:40:29,727 Speaker . That you agreed with her on 1116 00:40:29,727 --> 00:40:31,838 everything . And what I was referring 1117 00:40:31,838 --> 00:40:33,949 to . And I said that was I agree that 1118 00:40:33,949 --> 00:40:35,838 we need to have the processes and 1119 00:40:35,838 --> 00:40:37,949 procedures in place to make sure that 1120 00:40:37,949 --> 00:40:40,171 we don't have an accident or illegal or 1121 00:40:40,171 --> 00:40:39,700 unauthorized use of nuclear weapons . 1122 00:40:39,710 --> 00:40:41,766 And I do agree with that . And we do 1123 00:40:41,766 --> 00:40:43,821 have those procedures . You said you 1124 00:40:43,821 --> 00:40:45,599 agree with her according to bob 1125 00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:47,432 Woodward . I'm not agreeing with 1126 00:40:47,432 --> 00:40:49,640 Woodward is right or your right . I am 1127 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,862 not agreeing with her assessment of the 1128 00:40:51,862 --> 00:40:54,690 president nor the book also goes on and 1129 00:40:54,690 --> 00:40:56,980 talking about the january 6th riot . It 1130 00:40:56,980 --> 00:40:59,100 says that you told bob Woodward that 1131 00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:01,760 you wrote in a list in your notebook of 1132 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,927 groups that you personally believe are 1133 00:41:03,927 --> 00:41:06,149 responsible for the attack and that you 1134 00:41:06,149 --> 00:41:08,204 associated with it , quote . And you 1135 00:41:08,204 --> 00:41:10,149 call these groups , quote domestic 1136 00:41:10,149 --> 00:41:12,371 terrorists or this domestic terrorism . 1137 00:41:12,610 --> 00:41:14,610 That list included in your notebook 1138 00:41:14,610 --> 00:41:16,610 according to bob Woodward . In your 1139 00:41:16,610 --> 00:41:18,554 from your conversations with him , 1140 00:41:18,554 --> 00:41:21,000 Nazis and oath keepers . But it also 1141 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,990 included two conservative media outlets 1142 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,944 that you listed in your notebook , 1143 00:41:26,010 --> 00:41:28,232 including the Epic Times , which by the 1144 00:41:28,232 --> 00:41:30,343 way is a news outlet that was founded 1145 00:41:30,343 --> 00:41:32,343 by critics of the Chinese Communist 1146 00:41:32,343 --> 00:41:34,454 Party and Newsmax which is the second 1147 00:41:34,454 --> 00:41:36,621 most watched conservative media outlet 1148 00:41:36,810 --> 00:41:39,320 In the country today . Do your notes 1149 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,542 about January six . Reference both epic 1150 00:41:41,542 --> 00:41:43,870 times and newsmax as on a list of 1151 00:41:43,870 --> 00:41:46,160 domestic terrorist . I'm not recalling 1152 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,550 this conversation at all . It's in the 1153 00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:50,717 book . Maybe in the book . I have read 1154 00:41:50,717 --> 00:41:52,439 the book . I'm not recalling a 1155 00:41:52,439 --> 00:41:54,680 conversation about Newsmax Epic Times . 1156 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,847 You have a notebook that lists Newsmax 1157 00:41:56,847 --> 00:41:59,069 and Epic Times as domestic terrorists . 1158 00:41:59,069 --> 00:42:01,291 As recounted by the bob Woodward book . 1159 00:42:01,291 --> 00:42:04,090 Peril . Where's bob Woodward lying to 1160 00:42:04,090 --> 00:42:06,950 us in the book . Uh I don't know , I 1161 00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:08,950 don't recall any conversation about 1162 00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:11,172 Epic Time . Do you believe that Newsmax 1163 00:42:11,172 --> 00:42:13,339 and Epic Times are domestic terrorists 1164 00:42:13,339 --> 00:42:16,060 or their leaders ? I think not at all . 1165 00:42:16,070 --> 00:42:18,720 I don't think Epic Times nor Newsmax or 1166 00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:20,942 domestic terrorist organizations . Will 1167 00:42:20,942 --> 00:42:22,942 you believe there to this committee 1168 00:42:22,942 --> 00:42:24,998 will produce anything related to bob 1169 00:42:24,998 --> 00:42:27,276 Woodward in the book ? That you listed . 1170 00:42:27,276 --> 00:42:29,331 Different groups are responsible for 1171 00:42:29,331 --> 00:42:31,498 January six . Sure , absolutely . I go 1172 00:42:31,498 --> 00:42:33,553 back to my time has expired . I will 1173 00:42:33,553 --> 00:42:35,553 just note for the record that I was 1174 00:42:35,553 --> 00:42:37,664 quoted in that book as well and a lot 1175 00:42:37,664 --> 00:42:39,720 of what I said was conflated and not 1176 00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:41,720 100% accurately portrayed . It does 1177 00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:43,553 happen just because someone says 1178 00:42:43,553 --> 00:42:45,609 something doesn't mean that it is an 1179 00:42:45,609 --> 00:42:45,150 accurate portrayal and doesn't even 1180 00:42:45,150 --> 00:42:47,094 mean they're lying . It could be a 1181 00:42:47,094 --> 00:42:48,872 misunderstanding about what was 1182 00:42:48,872 --> 00:42:50,817 actually said . Um Miss Slotkin is 1183 00:42:50,817 --> 00:42:53,039 recognized for five minutes . Thank you 1184 00:42:53,039 --> 00:42:55,206 and thank you gentlemen for being here 1185 00:42:55,206 --> 00:42:57,372 and for the work um that you've done . 1186 00:42:57,372 --> 00:42:59,594 I think obviously the level of back and 1187 00:42:59,594 --> 00:43:01,372 forth on the committee today um 1188 00:43:01,372 --> 00:43:05,270 represents um uh some real stress in 1189 00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:08,120 the system about the withdrawal and 1190 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,660 what it means , but also about um you 1191 00:43:11,660 --> 00:43:13,610 know , an interest in politicizing 1192 00:43:13,610 --> 00:43:15,721 national security issues which I have 1193 00:43:15,721 --> 00:43:18,520 real issues with . Um Can I just ask ? 1194 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,250 I think the question I get asked the 1195 00:43:21,250 --> 00:43:23,320 most in my district about our 1196 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,920 withdrawal from Afghanistan Is are we 1197 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,390 safer now than we were on January on 1198 00:43:29,390 --> 00:43:32,740 September 10 , 2001 . And I believe . 1199 00:43:32,740 --> 00:43:35,360 And I'm certainly answered um many 1200 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,460 veterans who have reached out that I 1201 00:43:37,460 --> 00:43:40,010 believe their work was valuable and 1202 00:43:40,010 --> 00:43:42,530 worthy . We kept al Qaeda and other 1203 00:43:42,530 --> 00:43:45,420 groups distracted and and 1204 00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:47,910 destabilized so that we could build up 1205 00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:50,021 our national security apparatus , our 1206 00:43:50,021 --> 00:43:52,390 homeland security here to make us safer , 1207 00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:55,060 safer . So it is of course hard to hear 1208 00:43:55,070 --> 00:43:59,000 from um , from this panel that right 1209 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,230 now we we are safer , but we have to 1210 00:44:01,230 --> 00:44:03,440 watch for the reconstitution of these 1211 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,662 terrorist groups . No one likes to hear 1212 00:44:05,662 --> 00:44:09,500 that . Um , I would ask that we get a 1213 00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:12,320 classified briefing on our over the 1214 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,653 horizon posture , just so we understand , 1215 00:44:14,653 --> 00:44:16,653 I understand we can't do it in open 1216 00:44:16,653 --> 00:44:18,690 session , but just so we understand 1217 00:44:18,690 --> 00:44:21,270 what on this committee , what we can 1218 00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:23,830 expect when it comes to watching those 1219 00:44:23,830 --> 00:44:25,608 threats . So I'd asked for that 1220 00:44:25,608 --> 00:44:28,230 commitment . But as someone who served 1221 00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:32,020 in Iraq with the CIA , um , we watched 1222 00:44:32,020 --> 00:44:33,909 the reconstitution of Al Qaeda in 1223 00:44:33,909 --> 00:44:36,500 Western Iraq , which became ISIS What 1224 00:44:36,500 --> 00:44:38,780 are the trip wires ? Um , I guess 1225 00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:40,679 Secretary Austin and then General 1226 00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:43,380 Milley that you are looking for that 1227 00:44:43,380 --> 00:44:45,880 would push you to engage the White 1228 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,936 House and say , hey , we have a real 1229 00:44:47,936 --> 00:44:50,102 problem here . What are those specific 1230 00:44:50,102 --> 00:44:52,102 things that you're looking for that 1231 00:44:52,102 --> 00:44:54,820 would change your assessment from one 1232 00:44:54,820 --> 00:44:57,520 of you know , we're all right right now 1233 00:44:57,530 --> 00:44:59,730 to we need to take more significant 1234 00:44:59,730 --> 00:45:00,730 military action . 1235 00:45:02,890 --> 00:45:06,220 Uh , thanks first on your 1236 00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:09,130 request for an over the horizon 1237 00:45:09,130 --> 00:45:12,200 capability brief . Uh , well , 1238 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:13,922 certainly sign up for that . I 1239 00:45:13,922 --> 00:45:15,978 committed to the chairman to do that 1240 00:45:15,978 --> 00:45:18,340 early on . Uh and I'll have General 1241 00:45:18,340 --> 00:45:21,730 Mackenzie and the joint staff and and 1242 00:45:21,730 --> 00:45:24,050 my policy people in that brief as well . 1243 00:45:24,250 --> 00:45:26,960 Uh in terms of specific areas that 1244 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,720 we're focused on , we're looking at uh 1245 00:45:30,090 --> 00:45:33,490 their ability to develop a capability 1246 00:45:33,500 --> 00:45:36,210 to export terror to the homeland here . 1247 00:45:36,590 --> 00:45:38,880 Whether or not , you know , if we see 1248 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,200 senior leaders beginning to have 1249 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,550 freedom of movement in Afghanistan , uh 1250 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,240 if we see them developing capability 1251 00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:49,990 and training camps uh and and and other 1252 00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:53,350 things , uh if we see uh them moving 1253 00:45:53,350 --> 00:45:56,760 people back and forth across 1254 00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,020 international boundaries , uh Those are 1255 00:45:59,020 --> 00:46:01,020 things that we're looking for . And 1256 00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:03,076 again , it will take time to develop 1257 00:46:03,076 --> 00:46:06,300 this uh true intel picture of what uh 1258 00:46:06,310 --> 00:46:08,850 what's going on and we've begun network 1259 00:46:08,860 --> 00:46:11,070 uh and we'll continue , we'll remain 1260 00:46:11,070 --> 00:46:14,170 focused on this throughout . General 1261 00:46:14,170 --> 00:46:15,170 Milley , 1262 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,010 the specific indicators and warnings 1263 00:46:21,010 --> 00:46:23,343 I'd like to take to a different session , 1264 00:46:23,343 --> 00:46:25,454 but in general what we're looking for 1265 00:46:25,454 --> 00:46:27,399 leadership , capability , training 1266 00:46:27,399 --> 00:46:28,843 those sorts of things and 1267 00:46:28,843 --> 00:46:31,150 demonstrations of intent that Al Qaeda 1268 00:46:31,150 --> 00:46:33,620 and or IsIS is going to do external 1269 00:46:33,620 --> 00:46:35,676 operations against United States are 1270 00:46:35,676 --> 00:46:38,670 interest if we pick up on those , then 1271 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,624 it's our obligation to present the 1272 00:46:40,624 --> 00:46:42,791 President with options to deal with it 1273 00:46:42,791 --> 00:46:44,847 and General Milley , we've seen some 1274 00:46:44,847 --> 00:46:48,600 reports that in in our in our um 1275 00:46:49,180 --> 00:46:51,013 attempts to try and get over the 1276 00:46:51,013 --> 00:46:53,920 horizon posture um in countries around 1277 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,260 Afghanistan , um that we've had 1278 00:46:56,260 --> 00:46:58,680 discussions with the Russians about 1279 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,070 some cooperation . Can you help us 1280 00:47:01,070 --> 00:47:03,610 understand that for many of us , that 1281 00:47:03,620 --> 00:47:05,842 that just gives us like the hair on our 1282 00:47:05,842 --> 00:47:08,770 necks starts to go up . Can you explain 1283 00:47:08,770 --> 00:47:10,826 to us what we're discussing with the 1284 00:47:10,826 --> 00:47:12,992 Russians and what we are willing to do 1285 00:47:12,992 --> 00:47:15,200 and not do with the Russians ? Again , 1286 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,422 I'd prefer to take that into classified 1287 00:47:17,422 --> 00:47:19,478 session as you probably know about a 1288 00:47:19,478 --> 00:47:23,410 week or 10 days ago . I discussed over 1289 00:47:23,410 --> 00:47:25,440 in europe With the Russians , had a 1290 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,530 session with 32 childs and uh from all 1291 00:47:28,530 --> 00:47:30,586 the European NATO nations and then I 1292 00:47:30,586 --> 00:47:32,308 had a separate session with my 1293 00:47:32,308 --> 00:47:34,474 counterpart General Charisma and I can 1294 00:47:34,474 --> 00:47:36,474 talk to you in a classified session 1295 00:47:36,474 --> 00:47:38,641 about that . But in the main we're not 1296 00:47:38,641 --> 00:47:40,863 asking permission . We're not negotiate 1297 00:47:40,863 --> 00:47:44,130 I guess is the word . But um President 1298 00:47:44,130 --> 00:47:45,908 Putin and President biden had a 1299 00:47:45,908 --> 00:47:48,074 conversation and I was following up on 1300 00:47:48,074 --> 00:47:50,510 that conversation at other direction . 1301 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,520 Thank you . Actually my spirits . I 1302 00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,550 would just say , I think given that 1303 00:47:54,550 --> 00:47:56,772 it's not permissible right now to share 1304 00:47:56,772 --> 00:47:58,994 classified information . This committee 1305 00:47:58,994 --> 00:48:01,050 should be informed . Should there be 1306 00:48:01,050 --> 00:48:00,910 any movement towards that with the 1307 00:48:00,910 --> 00:48:03,210 Russians ? General ladies time has 1308 00:48:03,210 --> 00:48:05,321 expired And we we've had classified , 1309 00:48:05,321 --> 00:48:07,210 we will have continued classified 1310 00:48:07,210 --> 00:48:09,043 breeze as we have said , as many 1311 00:48:09,043 --> 00:48:11,210 members have said , I think accurately 1312 00:48:11,210 --> 00:48:13,377 the counterterrorism strategy in South 1313 00:48:13,377 --> 00:48:15,432 Asia is going to be a crucial policy 1314 00:48:15,432 --> 00:48:17,599 issue for all of us to deal with going 1315 00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:17,580 forward . MS Cheney is recognized . 1316 00:48:17,870 --> 00:48:20,037 Thank you very much . Mr Chairman . um 1317 00:48:20,037 --> 00:48:22,420 General Milley on on january 6th we had 1318 00:48:22,420 --> 00:48:25,070 a violent attack on our capital ? Uh It 1319 00:48:25,070 --> 00:48:26,580 was an effort to stop the 1320 00:48:26,580 --> 00:48:29,230 constitutionally prescribed process of 1321 00:48:29,230 --> 00:48:31,452 counting electoral votes the first time 1322 00:48:31,452 --> 00:48:33,674 in our nation's history that we did not 1323 00:48:33,674 --> 00:48:35,750 have a peaceful transfer of power in 1324 00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:38,390 the aftermath of that attack , many of 1325 00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:40,470 the members of our constitutional 1326 00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:43,140 system failed to do their duty . Many 1327 00:48:43,140 --> 00:48:45,990 of them punted . Many of them today are 1328 00:48:45,990 --> 00:48:47,823 still attempting to obstruct the 1329 00:48:47,823 --> 00:48:49,657 investigation into that attack . 1330 00:48:49,660 --> 00:48:51,882 Attempting to whitewash what happened ? 1331 00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:54,790 General Milley , you found yourself in 1332 00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:57,680 your constitutionally prescribed role , 1333 00:48:57,690 --> 00:49:01,430 standing in the breach and for any 1334 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,384 member of this committee , for any 1335 00:49:03,384 --> 00:49:06,020 american to question your loyalty to 1336 00:49:06,020 --> 00:49:07,687 our nation , to question your 1337 00:49:07,687 --> 00:49:09,750 understanding of our constitution , 1338 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,130 your loyalty to our constitution , your 1339 00:49:12,130 --> 00:49:14,186 recognition and understanding of the 1340 00:49:14,186 --> 00:49:16,519 civilian chain of command is despicable . 1341 00:49:16,670 --> 00:49:18,880 I want to apologize for those members 1342 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,047 of this committee who have done so and 1343 00:49:21,047 --> 00:49:23,269 I want to thank you for standing in the 1344 00:49:23,269 --> 00:49:25,491 breach when so many , including many in 1345 00:49:25,491 --> 00:49:28,450 this room failed to do so . With 1346 00:49:28,450 --> 00:49:31,430 respect to Afghanistan . The only 1347 00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:33,541 question for us , with respect to the 1348 00:49:33,541 --> 00:49:35,708 deployment of forces in Afghanistan or 1349 00:49:35,708 --> 00:49:38,840 anywhere else is what does us security 1350 00:49:38,850 --> 00:49:42,490 require in the circumstances We found 1351 00:49:42,490 --> 00:49:44,379 ourselves in in Afghanistan . The 1352 00:49:44,379 --> 00:49:46,550 deployment of our forces was allowing 1353 00:49:46,550 --> 00:49:48,272 us to conduct counterterrorism 1354 00:49:48,272 --> 00:49:50,106 operations , counterintelligence 1355 00:49:50,106 --> 00:49:52,660 operations , enabling us to prevent 1356 00:49:52,660 --> 00:49:54,549 terrorists from establishing safe 1357 00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:57,760 havens General Milley terrorists now 1358 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,580 have an entire country of Afghanistan , 1359 00:50:01,060 --> 00:50:03,282 Could you tell the committee whether or 1360 00:50:03,282 --> 00:50:05,449 not you think the current situation in 1361 00:50:05,449 --> 00:50:07,671 Afghanistan following the withdrawal of 1362 00:50:07,671 --> 00:50:10,310 forces which began with the Doha 1363 00:50:10,310 --> 00:50:13,670 agreement and the orders that you have 1364 00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:15,892 described in the trump administration , 1365 00:50:15,892 --> 00:50:17,837 which was carried out in the biden 1366 00:50:17,837 --> 00:50:19,726 administration . Can you tell the 1367 00:50:19,726 --> 00:50:21,837 committee whether or not you think we 1368 00:50:21,837 --> 00:50:23,726 are now more safer or less safe ? 1369 00:50:23,726 --> 00:50:25,837 Whether Afghanistan prevents presents 1370 00:50:25,837 --> 00:50:28,059 more of a threat or less of a threat to 1371 00:50:28,059 --> 00:50:30,170 our homeland . Then when we were able 1372 00:50:30,170 --> 00:50:30,060 to conduct counterterrorism 1373 00:50:30,060 --> 00:50:32,227 counterintelligence operations there , 1374 00:50:32,860 --> 00:50:34,971 I think right now , right this minute 1375 00:50:34,971 --> 00:50:37,193 we are more safe because of the efforts 1376 00:50:37,193 --> 00:50:39,416 over the last 20 years . However , I do 1377 00:50:39,416 --> 00:50:41,527 think that conditions are more likely 1378 00:50:41,527 --> 00:50:41,150 than not to develop over the course of 1379 00:50:41,150 --> 00:50:42,820 time that will allow for the 1380 00:50:42,820 --> 00:50:45,098 reconstitution of al Qaeda and or ISIS , 1381 00:50:45,098 --> 00:50:47,510 and that time varies depending on which 1382 00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:49,732 analyst you're listening to it sometime 1383 00:50:49,732 --> 00:50:52,066 between say 6 to 12 and maybe 36 months . 1384 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,982 And when you look at the situation that 1385 00:50:54,982 --> 00:50:56,927 we face today , in terms of what's 1386 00:50:56,927 --> 00:50:59,330 going to be necessary , um the loss of 1387 00:50:59,330 --> 00:51:01,386 life , the loss of treasure has been 1388 00:51:01,386 --> 00:51:03,552 tragic has been devastating . Uh , but 1389 00:51:03,552 --> 00:51:05,774 when you look at where we are likely to 1390 00:51:05,774 --> 00:51:07,886 find ourselves , um do you think that 1391 00:51:07,886 --> 00:51:09,941 our ability to defend ourselves will 1392 00:51:09,941 --> 00:51:12,580 now be more expensive will cost us more 1393 00:51:12,580 --> 00:51:14,636 in terms of lives and treasure going 1394 00:51:14,636 --> 00:51:16,691 forward ? Or do you believe that the 1395 00:51:16,691 --> 00:51:18,691 withdrawal will present a situation 1396 00:51:18,691 --> 00:51:20,858 where we have to devote less resources 1397 00:51:20,858 --> 00:51:23,080 to the war on terror ? I think the ends 1398 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,302 are going to remain the same to protect 1399 00:51:25,302 --> 00:51:24,760 the American people . But the ways and 1400 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,816 means are going to change . Uh and I 1401 00:51:26,816 --> 00:51:28,871 think it's going to become much more 1402 00:51:28,871 --> 00:51:30,927 difficult now uh in order to conduct 1403 00:51:30,927 --> 00:51:32,927 counterterrorism operations against 1404 00:51:32,927 --> 00:51:34,760 reconstitute al Qaeda or IsIS in 1405 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,927 Afghanistan ? Not impossible . We have 1406 00:51:36,927 --> 00:51:39,204 the capabilities that means to do that , 1407 00:51:39,204 --> 00:51:41,220 but it will be more difficult . Uh 1408 00:51:41,230 --> 00:51:43,470 Secretary Austin are members of the 1409 00:51:43,470 --> 00:51:45,470 Haqqani network , still a potential 1410 00:51:45,470 --> 00:51:49,300 target for United States military . We 1411 00:51:49,310 --> 00:51:52,190 uh we do recognize that the members of 1412 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,800 the county network are recognized 1413 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,860 terrorist . Yes , so they are a 1414 00:51:56,860 --> 00:51:59,027 potential target for the United States 1415 00:51:59,027 --> 00:52:02,380 military , potentially . Yes . Um 1416 00:52:02,390 --> 00:52:04,490 So uh Secretary Austin , the biden 1417 00:52:04,490 --> 00:52:06,950 administration um has been saying that 1418 00:52:06,950 --> 00:52:09,270 the Doha agreement is still in effect 1419 00:52:09,650 --> 00:52:12,680 and that they will hold the Taliban 1420 00:52:13,450 --> 00:52:15,339 to their quote , counterterrorism 1421 00:52:15,339 --> 00:52:18,720 commitments in the Doha agreement . But 1422 00:52:18,730 --> 00:52:20,897 the Taliban is using this agreement to 1423 00:52:20,897 --> 00:52:23,050 protect terrorists . The Taliban is 1424 00:52:23,060 --> 00:52:25,227 intertwined with the Haqqani network . 1425 00:52:25,250 --> 00:52:29,090 Um and uh al Qaeda has in fact sworn by 1426 00:52:29,090 --> 00:52:32,100 out to the Taliban . So can you explain 1427 00:52:32,100 --> 00:52:33,989 exactly how that agreement that's 1428 00:52:33,989 --> 00:52:36,410 enabling terrorists um is going to be 1429 00:52:36,410 --> 00:52:38,521 useful as some kind of a tool to hold 1430 00:52:38,521 --> 00:52:40,854 the Taliban to any kind of a commitment . 1431 00:52:41,650 --> 00:52:43,817 I think we should do everything within 1432 00:52:43,817 --> 00:52:45,706 our power to keep pressure on the 1433 00:52:45,706 --> 00:52:47,872 Taliban to do what they said that they 1434 00:52:47,872 --> 00:52:50,094 were going to do and we heard what they 1435 00:52:50,094 --> 00:52:52,206 said , what they said , we will watch 1436 00:52:52,206 --> 00:52:54,390 their actions . But uh but I think we 1437 00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:56,680 should continue to apply pressure 1438 00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,570 wherever possible to cause them to keep 1439 00:53:00,950 --> 00:53:03,990 al Qaeda activity in Czech . And again , 1440 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,222 you've heard us say a couple of times a 1441 00:53:06,222 --> 00:53:08,800 day that we recognize that this is the 1442 00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,720 taliban and uh trust is not an issue 1443 00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:13,942 here necessarily . We hear what they're 1444 00:53:13,942 --> 00:53:16,109 saying , we're watching what they do . 1445 00:53:16,109 --> 00:53:18,276 Uh huh . Thank you . Mr Secretary , my 1446 00:53:18,276 --> 00:53:20,331 time has expired . MS Cheryl , Let's 1447 00:53:20,331 --> 00:53:23,210 recognized for five minutes . Thank you . 1448 00:53:23,210 --> 00:53:25,210 Secretary Austin . General Milley , 1449 00:53:25,210 --> 00:53:27,377 General Mackenzie . I have quite a few 1450 00:53:27,377 --> 00:53:29,599 questions and some I may have to submit 1451 00:53:29,599 --> 00:53:31,599 for the record because I think it's 1452 00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:33,432 important to start with this and 1453 00:53:33,432 --> 00:53:35,599 somewhat echo my republican colleagues 1454 00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:37,543 opening , we have continued to see 1455 00:53:37,543 --> 00:53:39,766 attacks on our democracy and our values 1456 00:53:39,766 --> 00:53:41,990 for members representing what at least 1457 00:53:41,990 --> 00:53:43,823 historically would have been the 1458 00:53:43,823 --> 00:53:45,768 extreme elements of the Republican 1459 00:53:45,768 --> 00:53:47,670 Party Attacks , including but not 1460 00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:49,781 limited to the horrible attack on our 1461 00:53:49,781 --> 00:53:52,003 capital and our Congress on January six 1462 00:53:53,050 --> 00:53:54,994 and one of the cornerstones of our 1463 00:53:54,994 --> 00:53:56,772 democracy and our government is 1464 00:53:56,772 --> 00:53:59,570 civilian , not military rule . This is 1465 00:53:59,570 --> 00:54:01,870 sacrosanct to those of us who have worn 1466 00:54:01,870 --> 00:54:04,550 the uniform and judging from the 1467 00:54:04,550 --> 00:54:06,328 attacks by some members of this 1468 00:54:06,328 --> 00:54:08,560 committee , poorly understood by those 1469 00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,540 who have not , I have concerns about 1470 00:54:11,540 --> 00:54:13,540 how the needle was executed , but I 1471 00:54:13,540 --> 00:54:15,270 must applaud all of you for 1472 00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:17,630 scrupulously ensuring our civilian 1473 00:54:17,630 --> 00:54:19,890 government remained the decision making 1474 00:54:19,890 --> 00:54:22,230 authority as you continue to provide 1475 00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:25,140 your best military advice even when at 1476 00:54:25,140 --> 00:54:27,930 times your advice differed from the 1477 00:54:27,930 --> 00:54:30,810 decisions made . Thank you . I'd like 1478 00:54:30,810 --> 00:54:32,866 to now turn to some questions that I 1479 00:54:32,866 --> 00:54:35,560 have related to the timeline of events . 1480 00:54:36,140 --> 00:54:39,240 So as I understand it , in February of 1481 00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:41,120 2020 , President Trump made an 1482 00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,287 agreement with the Taliban to withdraw 1483 00:54:43,287 --> 00:54:47,150 US troops by May one , in exchange for 1484 00:54:47,150 --> 00:54:49,317 several conditions including a halt to 1485 00:54:49,317 --> 00:54:51,428 attacks against us forces and cutting 1486 00:54:51,428 --> 00:54:53,640 ties with al Qaeda . By the time he 1487 00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,862 left office , President Trump had drawn 1488 00:54:55,862 --> 00:54:58,830 down forces to 2500 and publicly 1489 00:54:58,830 --> 00:55:00,886 indicated his intent to complete the 1490 00:55:00,886 --> 00:55:03,230 withdrawal if he had been re elected 1491 00:55:03,230 --> 00:55:05,430 and I think Chairman Millie , you 1492 00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:07,990 mentioned the 10 november 2020 1493 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,390 withdrawal of troops by january by 15 1494 00:55:10,390 --> 00:55:13,010 january 2020 which was rescinded . And 1495 00:55:13,010 --> 00:55:15,960 then the 17 november 2020 draw down to 1496 00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,510 2500 by 19 january . Is that 1497 00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:22,810 correct ? It was a memo dated 11 1498 00:55:22,810 --> 00:55:25,570 November two days after secretary esper 1499 00:55:25,570 --> 00:55:28,930 was fired And then on the 17th it was 1500 00:55:28,930 --> 00:55:31,440 rescinded . The first memo said , go to 1501 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,760 zero . The second one said go to 2500 . 1502 00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:37,800 Thank you . And so were there were you 1503 00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,650 consulted on the decisions to open 1504 00:55:40,650 --> 00:55:43,100 negotiations solely with the taliban to 1505 00:55:43,100 --> 00:55:45,267 the exclusion of the Afghan government 1506 00:55:45,267 --> 00:55:48,980 general very , very 1507 00:55:48,980 --> 00:55:51,220 late in the game , like days before the 1508 00:55:51,220 --> 00:55:54,320 signing and generally were there 1509 00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,487 concrete plans for withdrawal from the 1510 00:55:56,487 --> 00:55:58,376 previous administration that were 1511 00:55:58,376 --> 00:56:00,320 shared and developed with military 1512 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,290 leadership . Well we were 12,600 1513 00:56:04,300 --> 00:56:06,650 on the day that the Doha agreement with 1514 00:56:06,660 --> 00:56:09,240 12,600 U . S . military in Afghanistan . 1515 00:56:09,830 --> 00:56:12,052 When they do our agreement was signed . 1516 00:56:12,430 --> 00:56:15,360 Part of that agreement was to go to 80 1517 00:56:15,370 --> 00:56:18,090 500 . Well then I think 135 days I'd 1518 00:56:18,090 --> 00:56:20,201 have to go back to agreement and look 1519 00:56:20,201 --> 00:56:22,312 at it . But then it was to bring down 1520 00:56:22,312 --> 00:56:24,368 all the US military NATO contractors 1521 00:56:24,368 --> 00:56:27,230 close all the bases by one May . So it 1522 00:56:27,230 --> 00:56:28,952 was an agreement signed by our 1523 00:56:28,952 --> 00:56:31,008 government . We dutifully executed a 1524 00:56:31,008 --> 00:56:32,952 deliberate drawdown over time from 1525 00:56:32,952 --> 00:56:34,900 February of 20 all the way through 1526 00:56:34,910 --> 00:56:37,590 based on a set of milestones . So we 1527 00:56:37,590 --> 00:56:39,479 did withdraw and we had a plan to 1528 00:56:39,479 --> 00:56:41,368 withdraw . Did any of those plans 1529 00:56:41,368 --> 00:56:43,790 include plans to evacuate um civilian 1530 00:56:43,790 --> 00:56:46,440 american personnel , citizens and S ivy 1531 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,720 holders . Um Yes General Mackenzie and 1532 00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:52,960 centcom to develop neo plans . Um But 1533 00:56:53,930 --> 00:56:57,660 not like the large S . Ivy holders and 1534 00:56:57,670 --> 00:56:59,614 lots of american citizens , it was 1535 00:56:59,614 --> 00:57:01,392 primarily the embassy and their 1536 00:57:01,392 --> 00:57:03,226 personnel . But I defer to frank 1537 00:57:03,226 --> 00:57:05,337 McKenzie to talk about the details of 1538 00:57:05,337 --> 00:57:07,392 the neo plans at that time . General 1539 00:57:07,392 --> 00:57:09,503 Mackenzie . So we hold a Neo plan for 1540 00:57:09,503 --> 00:57:11,559 every country in the central command 1541 00:57:11,559 --> 00:57:13,670 region . So yes we hold we had a plan 1542 00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:15,614 to bring out based mainly american 1543 00:57:15,614 --> 00:57:17,837 citizens and people associated with the 1544 00:57:17,837 --> 00:57:19,614 embassy planning later began to 1545 00:57:19,614 --> 00:57:21,781 encompass the larger population at the 1546 00:57:21,781 --> 00:57:24,003 at risk afghan population , the S . I . 1547 00:57:24,003 --> 00:57:26,003 B . Population . But initially like 1548 00:57:26,003 --> 00:57:25,840 every other plan , it's centered on 1549 00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,007 american citizens and their families . 1550 00:57:28,007 --> 00:57:30,007 And when you say the planning later 1551 00:57:30,007 --> 00:57:32,229 grew to include that . What is the time 1552 00:57:32,229 --> 00:57:34,284 frame for when you began to No later 1553 00:57:34,284 --> 00:57:38,250 than the early spring of this year . So 1554 00:57:38,250 --> 00:57:42,160 under this administration . Yes . Yes . 1555 00:57:43,830 --> 00:57:46,052 And general million , your testimony to 1556 00:57:46,052 --> 00:57:48,163 the Sask yesterday you testified that 1557 00:57:48,163 --> 00:57:50,219 the trump administration's plans had 1558 00:57:50,219 --> 00:57:51,997 not been developed via a robust 1559 00:57:51,997 --> 00:57:54,360 interagency process . How closely were 1560 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,471 you and other senior military leaders 1561 00:57:56,471 --> 00:57:58,693 consulted on President trump's plans as 1562 00:57:58,693 --> 00:58:01,350 they were developed . I wasn't 1563 00:58:01,350 --> 00:58:04,380 consulted on the 11 November order , um , 1564 00:58:04,470 --> 00:58:07,200 that I received . That's why I went 1565 00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,200 over to the White House with Acting 1566 00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,256 Secretary Miller and the White House 1567 00:58:11,256 --> 00:58:13,410 Chief of Staff Cash Patel to discuss 1568 00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:15,751 that order . So I wasn't consulted on 1569 00:58:15,751 --> 00:58:18,029 it . Thank you . And my time's expired . 1570 00:58:18,029 --> 00:58:20,084 I'll submit the rest of my questions 1571 00:58:20,084 --> 00:58:22,196 for the record . Thank you . Mr waltz 1572 00:58:22,196 --> 00:58:24,418 is recognized . Thank you mr Chairman . 1573 00:58:24,418 --> 00:58:24,170 And here's where I think we're really 1574 00:58:24,170 --> 00:58:26,890 talking past each other . This war is 1575 00:58:26,890 --> 00:58:30,330 not done . It's not over . Uh , this is 1576 00:58:30,330 --> 00:58:32,497 a war against Islamic extremism . It's 1577 00:58:32,497 --> 00:58:35,010 a war against an ideology And just as 1578 00:58:35,010 --> 00:58:38,010 it took decades decades , not 20 years , 1579 00:58:38,020 --> 00:58:41,550 30 years , many more to defeat the idea 1580 00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,690 of communism , to defeat the idea of 1581 00:58:43,690 --> 00:58:46,230 fascism . It's going to take decades to 1582 00:58:46,230 --> 00:58:48,540 defeat the idea of Islamic extremism 1583 00:58:49,420 --> 00:58:51,630 Jerold Mackenzie . You testified 1584 00:58:51,630 --> 00:58:53,686 yesterday . Al Qaeda is still at war 1585 00:58:53,686 --> 00:58:55,908 with us . You stand by . That statement 1586 00:58:55,908 --> 00:58:59,310 absolutely represent Dkny Haines the 1587 00:58:59,310 --> 00:59:01,310 direct biden's Director of national 1588 00:59:01,310 --> 00:59:03,477 Intelligence brief , the Congress that 1589 00:59:03,477 --> 00:59:05,532 al Qaeda fully intends to attack the 1590 00:59:05,532 --> 00:59:07,699 west again . If given the chance , the 1591 00:59:07,699 --> 00:59:10,040 head of Al Qaeda , Osama bin laden's 1592 00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,390 former deputy has pledged allegiance to 1593 00:59:12,390 --> 00:59:14,820 the head of the Taliban . Except now 1594 00:59:14,820 --> 00:59:16,987 they have an entire state to work with 1595 00:59:16,987 --> 00:59:18,960 an army and air force functioning 1596 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,380 international airport . And I think if 1597 00:59:21,380 --> 00:59:23,547 things continue on the path , they are 1598 00:59:23,547 --> 00:59:25,491 possibly billions in international 1599 00:59:25,491 --> 00:59:27,547 currency reserves . So Mr Chairman , 1600 00:59:27,547 --> 00:59:29,769 respectfully , we're not done with this 1601 00:59:29,769 --> 00:59:31,769 war . I would have thought we would 1602 00:59:31,769 --> 00:59:33,880 have learned the lesson from Iraq . I 1603 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:33,730 would thought mr Secretary , you have 1604 00:59:33,730 --> 00:59:37,010 learned the lesson from Iraq uh where 1605 00:59:37,010 --> 00:59:39,121 we pulled out in 2011 . Mr Chairman , 1606 00:59:39,121 --> 00:59:41,177 you issued a statement praising that 1607 00:59:41,177 --> 00:59:43,320 pullout is ending that war and yet we 1608 00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,000 found ourselves three years later with 1609 00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,050 soldiers going back in . So , but let's 1610 00:59:49,050 --> 00:59:51,106 look at the situation is I think the 1611 00:59:51,106 --> 00:59:53,439 american people need to understand this . 1612 00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,250 Here we have Iraq . We pulled out led 1613 00:59:56,250 --> 00:59:58,472 to the rise of the ISIS caliphate which 1614 00:59:58,472 --> 01:00:01,850 was obviously a morphed entity from Al 1615 01:00:01,850 --> 01:00:04,430 Qaeda . Look at all of the bases that 1616 01:00:04,430 --> 01:00:07,050 we had to deal with . When we went back , 1617 01:00:07,060 --> 01:00:09,004 we had bases in the gulf . We have 1618 01:00:09,004 --> 01:00:10,949 bases in kuwait , We have bases in 1619 01:00:10,949 --> 01:00:13,116 Turkey , in Jordan of course in Israel 1620 01:00:13,116 --> 01:00:16,470 allied bases in Cyprus . We had allies 1621 01:00:16,470 --> 01:00:19,250 on the ground and the kurds . We didn't 1622 01:00:19,250 --> 01:00:21,640 let ISIS take over the government in 1623 01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:23,780 Baghdad and the army and all of the 1624 01:00:23,780 --> 01:00:25,836 functions of the state we had all of 1625 01:00:25,836 --> 01:00:28,600 these assets to work with to go clean 1626 01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,220 up that mess . And how many soldiers 1627 01:00:31,220 --> 01:00:34,700 and lives did we lose from cleaning up 1628 01:00:34,700 --> 01:00:37,810 that mistaken withdrawal . Mr Chairman . 1629 01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,262 But let's let's transition over here to 1630 01:00:40,262 --> 01:00:42,318 Afghanistan . What do we see ? Do we 1631 01:00:42,318 --> 01:00:44,262 have General Mackenzie ? We have a 1632 01:00:44,262 --> 01:00:46,373 single base in Afghanistan . Now , we 1633 01:00:46,373 --> 01:00:48,484 have no basis , we have a base in any 1634 01:00:48,484 --> 01:00:50,596 country neighbouring Afghanistan . We 1635 01:00:50,596 --> 01:00:52,540 do not do we have any local allies 1636 01:00:52,540 --> 01:00:54,873 approaching the capability of the kurds ? 1637 01:00:54,910 --> 01:00:57,021 We do not know in options , but we do 1638 01:00:57,021 --> 01:00:59,132 not . We have the Northern Alliance , 1639 01:00:59,132 --> 01:01:01,466 the pants here has been taken , frankly , 1640 01:01:01,466 --> 01:01:03,632 they're being slaughtered right now as 1641 01:01:03,632 --> 01:01:05,577 we speak with our weapons with our 1642 01:01:05,577 --> 01:01:07,410 equipment . Our allies are being 1643 01:01:07,410 --> 01:01:09,810 slaughtered every morning . We wake up 1644 01:01:09,820 --> 01:01:13,660 to beheading videos , two executions , 1645 01:01:14,610 --> 01:01:16,721 two people being hunted down with our 1646 01:01:16,721 --> 01:01:19,780 own database . But when and if you have 1647 01:01:19,780 --> 01:01:21,891 to present options to the president , 1648 01:01:22,210 --> 01:01:24,321 how many soldiers are we gonna lose ? 1649 01:01:24,370 --> 01:01:26,703 Because we have no allies on the ground . 1650 01:01:26,810 --> 01:01:28,866 We have no basis in the region . Now 1651 01:01:28,866 --> 01:01:30,977 we're gonna get to really the crux of 1652 01:01:30,977 --> 01:01:32,977 the issue which is over the horizon 1653 01:01:32,977 --> 01:01:35,320 counterterrorism . Those drones have to 1654 01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,620 fly all the way around the run and all 1655 01:01:37,620 --> 01:01:39,900 the way up Pakistan and lose 70-80% of 1656 01:01:39,900 --> 01:01:42,190 their fuel before they even get 1657 01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:44,550 anywhere near a target . And we just 1658 01:01:44,550 --> 01:01:47,360 saw from the failed attack , the 1659 01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:49,640 botched attack that you have to have 1660 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,340 multi intelligence confirming with that 1661 01:01:52,340 --> 01:01:54,451 drone operators seeing I've called it 1662 01:01:54,451 --> 01:01:57,100 in and I know that drone operator would 1663 01:01:57,100 --> 01:01:59,322 have appreciated somebody on the ground 1664 01:01:59,322 --> 01:02:01,433 saying no , that's a civilian . Don't 1665 01:02:01,433 --> 01:02:03,433 pull that trigger . So I appreciate 1666 01:02:03,433 --> 01:02:05,489 your candor and saying how difficult 1667 01:02:05,489 --> 01:02:07,822 this is going to be . But the President , 1668 01:02:07,822 --> 01:02:09,711 the United States is selling this 1669 01:02:09,711 --> 01:02:11,822 country a fiction that we can do over 1670 01:02:11,822 --> 01:02:14,070 here with nothing what we're doing over 1671 01:02:14,070 --> 01:02:16,940 here with neighbouring base , access , 1672 01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:18,894 with allies on the ground and with 1673 01:02:18,894 --> 01:02:22,160 ocean access . That is a fiction that I 1674 01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,730 think you all need to own And we need 1675 01:02:24,730 --> 01:02:27,430 to be honest with the american people . 1676 01:02:29,700 --> 01:02:33,650 Yeah . Uh huh . I I am I I am 1677 01:02:33,660 --> 01:02:36,830 just livid at the fact of the future 1678 01:02:36,830 --> 01:02:39,170 americans that are going to have to go 1679 01:02:39,170 --> 01:02:41,170 back to clean up this mess . We are 1680 01:02:41,170 --> 01:02:42,948 watching this horror movie that 1681 01:02:42,948 --> 01:02:45,003 representatives , Slotkin experience 1682 01:02:45,003 --> 01:02:48,050 that we all experienced after Iraq . Uh 1683 01:02:48,060 --> 01:02:50,171 The President continues to say , well 1684 01:02:50,171 --> 01:02:52,227 we can do what we do in Somalia . We 1685 01:02:52,227 --> 01:02:54,004 can do what we do in Syria . Mr 1686 01:02:54,004 --> 01:02:56,116 Secretary just briefed about a strike 1687 01:02:56,116 --> 01:02:57,782 in Syria . We have a lot more 1688 01:02:57,782 --> 01:02:59,949 capability . There one more question , 1689 01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,110 do we have any evidence , 1690 01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,340 intelligence or otherwise of Pakistani 1691 01:03:06,340 --> 01:03:08,390 troops on the ground . Intelligence 1692 01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:10,612 officers , air support or any troops on 1693 01:03:10,612 --> 01:03:12,612 the ground assisting the taliban or 1694 01:03:12,612 --> 01:03:14,501 command and control assisting the 1695 01:03:14,501 --> 01:03:16,390 Taliban offensive . I'd prefer to 1696 01:03:16,390 --> 01:03:18,557 answer that question close . I'll take 1697 01:03:18,557 --> 01:03:21,980 that as a yes . Uh and mr and mr 1698 01:03:21,980 --> 01:03:23,869 Chairman Mr Walsh , your time has 1699 01:03:23,869 --> 01:03:25,980 expired . That's not going to go to a 1700 01:03:25,980 --> 01:03:25,950 civil war . It's going to go to a 1701 01:03:25,950 --> 01:03:27,970 regional war and and just for the 1702 01:03:27,970 --> 01:03:29,970 record , but we're not going to put 1703 01:03:29,970 --> 01:03:32,137 words in the mouths of our witnesses . 1704 01:03:32,137 --> 01:03:34,248 Um , you can't take it as a yes if it 1705 01:03:34,248 --> 01:03:35,430 was not , in fact , yes .