1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,780 the hearing will now come to order . I 2 00:00:03,780 --> 00:00:06,420 want to welcome everyone to this hybrid 3 00:00:06,420 --> 00:00:08,090 hearing on the jurisdiction 4 00:00:08,090 --> 00:00:11,350 investigation and prosecution of sexual 5 00:00:11,350 --> 00:00:13,406 harassment and sexual assault in the 6 00:00:13,406 --> 00:00:15,628 National Guard . We will have one panel 7 00:00:15,628 --> 00:00:18,540 today with General Daniel Hokanson , 8 00:00:18,540 --> 00:00:20,707 Chief of the National Guard Bureau and 9 00:00:20,707 --> 00:00:22,651 Brigadier general Charles walker , 10 00:00:22,651 --> 00:00:24,540 Director of the Office of complex 11 00:00:24,540 --> 00:00:26,970 investigations . Both will discuss the 12 00:00:26,970 --> 00:00:28,914 jurisdiction of the National Guard 13 00:00:28,914 --> 00:00:31,920 Bureau , the Army National Guard and 14 00:00:31,930 --> 00:00:33,819 the Air Force National Guard Over 15 00:00:33,819 --> 00:00:36,530 Guardsmen in their burying statuses who 16 00:00:36,530 --> 00:00:38,530 commit sexual harassment and sexual 17 00:00:38,530 --> 00:00:40,641 assault or other criminal acts . They 18 00:00:40,641 --> 00:00:42,641 will also address what services and 19 00:00:42,641 --> 00:00:44,586 benefits are available to National 20 00:00:44,586 --> 00:00:46,530 Guard personnel who are victims of 21 00:00:46,530 --> 00:00:48,920 these egregious crimes . Brigadier 22 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,976 general Walker will also discuss the 23 00:00:50,976 --> 00:00:53,031 office of complex investigations and 24 00:00:53,031 --> 00:00:55,130 their role in filling a gap for the 25 00:00:55,130 --> 00:00:58,260 state adjutant generals when local law 26 00:00:58,260 --> 00:01:00,482 enforcement authorities and our federal 27 00:01:00,482 --> 00:01:02,720 agencies are unable or unwilling to 28 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,160 investigate . I'm also looking forward 29 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,780 to hearing from them . Their response 30 00:01:07,780 --> 00:01:09,724 to the findings of the independent 31 00:01:09,724 --> 00:01:12,300 review Committee and how the National 32 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:14,740 Guard Bureau intends to implement the I . 33 00:01:14,740 --> 00:01:17,140 R . C . S . Recommendations , the 34 00:01:17,140 --> 00:01:19,520 morale , the readiness and every aspect 35 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,640 of services poisoned each time a 36 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,240 service member is sexually assaulted or 37 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,660 sexually harassed in our military . The 38 00:01:26,660 --> 00:01:29,800 National Guard is no different Guard 39 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,856 personnel have fought in the wars in 40 00:01:31,856 --> 00:01:33,911 Iraq and Afghanistan aided countless 41 00:01:33,911 --> 00:01:36,220 civilians and natural disasters and are 42 00:01:36,220 --> 00:01:38,220 providing essential health care and 43 00:01:38,220 --> 00:01:40,950 support to fight the current COVID-19 44 00:01:40,950 --> 00:01:43,950 pandemic . Yet they suffer from a 45 00:01:43,950 --> 00:01:47,020 convoluted and understaffed system of 46 00:01:47,020 --> 00:01:49,076 sexual assault and sexual harassment 47 00:01:49,076 --> 00:01:51,830 prevention programs , complex and 48 00:01:51,830 --> 00:01:54,450 cumbersome reporting processes and the 49 00:01:54,450 --> 00:01:57,020 lack of justice . The numbers are 50 00:01:57,020 --> 00:01:59,250 staggering . Yet the data is lacking 51 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,730 According to the d . o . d . 2019 52 00:02:01,730 --> 00:02:03,897 annual report on the sexual assault in 53 00:02:03,897 --> 00:02:06,020 the military . The number of reported 54 00:02:06,020 --> 00:02:08,860 sexual assaults in the guard jumped 55 00:02:08,870 --> 00:02:12,150 nationwide from 173 in 56 00:02:12,150 --> 00:02:15,620 2009 to 607 in 57 00:02:15,620 --> 00:02:19,080 2019 . More than a 300% 58 00:02:19,090 --> 00:02:22,330 increase beyond that . Little data 59 00:02:22,340 --> 00:02:24,690 exists . I've been advocating for 60 00:02:24,690 --> 00:02:27,080 progress for more than 10 years . Those 61 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,120 numbers don't tell even a fraction of 62 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,540 the story . The individual stories of 63 00:02:32,540 --> 00:02:34,484 guard personnel caught in a web of 64 00:02:34,484 --> 00:02:37,160 confusing bureaucracy are harrowing 65 00:02:37,540 --> 00:02:39,540 stories like the West Virginia Army 66 00:02:39,540 --> 00:02:41,207 National Guard officer , then 67 00:02:41,207 --> 00:02:43,630 Lieutenant Colonel Teresa James who was 68 00:02:43,630 --> 00:02:46,480 raped in her hotel room by a superior 69 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,980 officer consistently disbelieved and 70 00:02:49,980 --> 00:02:52,510 retaliated against until the National 71 00:02:52,510 --> 00:02:54,830 Guard Bureau investigators finally 72 00:02:54,830 --> 00:02:58,220 found that the perpetrator quote used 73 00:02:58,230 --> 00:03:00,560 intimidation and fear to sexually 74 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,330 assault her , resulting in non 75 00:03:03,330 --> 00:03:07,270 consensual intercourse unquote to make 76 00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:09,437 matters worse and because she reported 77 00:03:09,437 --> 00:03:11,740 her superior officer for rape , the 78 00:03:11,740 --> 00:03:12,851 victim was given an 79 00:03:12,851 --> 00:03:15,690 uncharacteristically low evaluation and 80 00:03:15,690 --> 00:03:17,740 retained in the guard for one year 81 00:03:17,750 --> 00:03:20,110 instead of the standard two years . 82 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,120 Three years later , the D . O . D . 83 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,287 Inspector general found that the quote 84 00:03:24,287 --> 00:03:26,850 the West Virginia Guard retaliated 85 00:03:26,850 --> 00:03:29,280 against her for reporting that she was 86 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,690 raped unquote . Her perpetrator faced 87 00:03:32,690 --> 00:03:36,150 no charges and was allowed to go on to 88 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,000 endanger other guardsmen . Lieutenant 89 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,060 Colonel James waited years to be 90 00:03:41,060 --> 00:03:43,260 believed and then was medically 91 00:03:43,270 --> 00:03:46,380 discharged from the service for PTSD 92 00:03:46,380 --> 00:03:48,324 resulting from her sexual trauma . 93 00:03:48,890 --> 00:03:50,779 Stories like this one are all too 94 00:03:50,779 --> 00:03:52,723 common across the National Guard . 95 00:03:52,740 --> 00:03:54,907 Extensive reporting by journalists has 96 00:03:54,907 --> 00:03:57,073 uncovered problems with sexual assault 97 00:03:57,073 --> 00:03:59,184 and sexual harassment in the National 98 00:03:59,184 --> 00:04:01,090 Guard in many states , including 99 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,570 florida Minnesota pennsylvania , 100 00:04:03,580 --> 00:04:07,070 Vermont and Wisconsin . Many involving 101 00:04:07,070 --> 00:04:09,830 botched investigations and failure to 102 00:04:09,830 --> 00:04:12,770 report crimes to police . We are here 103 00:04:12,770 --> 00:04:14,992 today to pull back the curtain that has 104 00:04:14,992 --> 00:04:16,780 allowed this insidious rot that 105 00:04:16,780 --> 00:04:18,780 threatens our national security and 106 00:04:18,780 --> 00:04:21,980 countless lives to go unchecked and in 107 00:04:21,980 --> 00:04:24,400 the worst cases made the threat even 108 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,320 more dire . No longer can the National 109 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,020 Guard hide behind their unique status 110 00:04:30,350 --> 00:04:32,820 to the National Guard . The spotlight 111 00:04:32,830 --> 00:04:36,180 of Congress is on you . Take care of 112 00:04:36,180 --> 00:04:38,240 your soldiers . Take care of your 113 00:04:38,250 --> 00:04:41,220 airmen stamp out sexual harassment and 114 00:04:41,220 --> 00:04:44,610 assault , stop the retaliation . 115 00:04:44,950 --> 00:04:47,710 We are watching all the soldiers and 116 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,600 airmen of the National Guard . We have 117 00:04:50,610 --> 00:04:53,730 not forgotten you . I pledged all the 118 00:04:53,730 --> 00:04:55,970 survivors of military sexual violence 119 00:04:56,220 --> 00:04:58,250 to those who reported and were 120 00:04:58,260 --> 00:05:00,530 ostracized to those who reported and 121 00:05:00,530 --> 00:05:03,160 faced retaliation and to all those who 122 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,040 are afraid to report and may be 123 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,160 suffering alone . We're on your team 124 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:11,000 and the National Guard is on notice . 125 00:05:11,540 --> 00:05:14,800 Sexual assault and harassment will not 126 00:05:14,810 --> 00:05:18,580 be tolerated . We pay your bills . 127 00:05:18,590 --> 00:05:22,460 We fund you . The game is over 128 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,551 ranking member Gallagher . You're now 129 00:05:25,551 --> 00:05:27,662 recognized for your opening remarks . 130 00:05:27,662 --> 00:05:29,996 Thank you Madam Chair . Before we begin , 131 00:05:29,996 --> 00:05:31,996 I'd like to say , I look forward to 132 00:05:31,996 --> 00:05:34,162 working with you through this upcoming 133 00:05:34,162 --> 00:05:36,273 NBA cycle last year was a whirlwind . 134 00:05:36,273 --> 00:05:38,340 But I hope we can continue to attack 135 00:05:38,340 --> 00:05:40,507 our military personnel challenges in a 136 00:05:40,507 --> 00:05:42,673 bipartisan fashion and I want to thank 137 00:05:42,673 --> 00:05:44,896 the witnesses for joining us . Yeah , I 138 00:05:44,896 --> 00:05:46,562 agree that sexual assault and 139 00:05:46,562 --> 00:05:48,618 harassment are a blight on our armed 140 00:05:48,618 --> 00:05:50,729 forces would be the Active Reserve or 141 00:05:50,729 --> 00:05:52,729 Guard . So this is a very important 142 00:05:52,729 --> 00:05:54,562 hearing about the National Guard 143 00:05:54,562 --> 00:05:56,451 Bureaus effort to coordinate with 144 00:05:56,451 --> 00:05:58,562 states and bring federal resources to 145 00:05:58,562 --> 00:06:00,340 bear on tough cases . Now , the 146 00:06:00,340 --> 00:06:02,007 National Guard sits in a very 147 00:06:02,007 --> 00:06:04,229 interesting position , which makes us a 148 00:06:04,229 --> 00:06:06,396 complex issue . Very few Guard members 149 00:06:06,396 --> 00:06:06,320 are in a federal service status and 150 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,487 subject to the military justice system 151 00:06:08,487 --> 00:06:11,660 At any time given unless they are 152 00:06:11,660 --> 00:06:13,549 actually activated under title 10 153 00:06:13,549 --> 00:06:15,771 orders there in their communities doing 154 00:06:15,771 --> 00:06:18,110 civilian jobs and are thus subject to 155 00:06:18,110 --> 00:06:20,332 the same laws as everyone else . So for 156 00:06:20,332 --> 00:06:22,277 the overwhelming majority of guard 157 00:06:22,277 --> 00:06:24,221 members , these legal distinctions 158 00:06:24,221 --> 00:06:26,166 never cause any issue but criminal 159 00:06:26,166 --> 00:06:28,332 conduct or conduct unbecoming a member 160 00:06:28,332 --> 00:06:30,443 of our Armed forces does happen often 161 00:06:30,443 --> 00:06:32,221 entirely outside of any federal 162 00:06:32,221 --> 00:06:34,332 jurisdiction . And Guard members live 163 00:06:34,332 --> 00:06:36,554 under 50 for different sets of state or 164 00:06:36,554 --> 00:06:38,750 territorial loss . Now , Congress has 165 00:06:38,750 --> 00:06:40,861 charged the National Guard Bureau and 166 00:06:40,861 --> 00:06:42,917 the Office of complex investigations 167 00:06:42,917 --> 00:06:45,139 with assisting the Adjutants General in 168 00:06:45,139 --> 00:06:47,361 cases where local law enforcement can't 169 00:06:47,361 --> 00:06:49,306 or won't address the guard related 170 00:06:49,306 --> 00:06:51,361 crime And since 2012 , OC has helped 171 00:06:51,361 --> 00:06:53,580 fill the gap between state and local 172 00:06:53,580 --> 00:06:55,802 law enforcement criminal investigations 173 00:06:55,802 --> 00:06:58,024 and the high standards that we apply to 174 00:06:58,024 --> 00:07:00,247 our service members . These cases often 175 00:07:00,247 --> 00:07:02,413 deal with complex legal issues and the 176 00:07:02,413 --> 00:07:04,636 O . C . I . O . C . I . Has worked very 177 00:07:04,636 --> 00:07:06,858 hard to find solutions over the last 10 178 00:07:06,858 --> 00:07:08,913 years . As always , there is more we 179 00:07:08,913 --> 00:07:11,080 could do to improve accountability and 180 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,191 integrity in our armed forces . And I 181 00:07:13,191 --> 00:07:12,160 look forward to hearing from the 182 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:13,993 witnesses about what tools would 183 00:07:13,993 --> 00:07:16,216 actually improve the handling of sexual 184 00:07:16,216 --> 00:07:18,271 assault cases at O . C . I . And how 185 00:07:18,271 --> 00:07:20,271 exactly the Guard Bureau can better 186 00:07:20,271 --> 00:07:22,382 provide crime prevention resources to 187 00:07:22,382 --> 00:07:24,493 the states . Thank you . I yield back 188 00:07:25,740 --> 00:07:28,250 his remarks . We will have question 189 00:07:29,140 --> 00:07:31,520 find . We respectfully ask the 190 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,242 witnesses to summarize there , 191 00:07:35,940 --> 00:07:38,120 forgive me . I'll start again after 192 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,342 General Hawkinson remarks , each member 193 00:07:40,342 --> 00:07:42,398 will have an opportunity to question 194 00:07:42,398 --> 00:07:44,398 the witnesses for five minutes . We 195 00:07:44,398 --> 00:07:46,176 respectfully ask the witness to 196 00:07:46,176 --> 00:07:48,064 summarize their testimony in five 197 00:07:48,064 --> 00:07:50,064 minutes . Your written comments and 198 00:07:50,064 --> 00:07:52,064 statements will be made part of the 199 00:07:52,064 --> 00:07:53,898 hearing record . Let's begin and 200 00:07:53,898 --> 00:07:55,842 welcome our panel . General Daniel 201 00:07:55,842 --> 00:07:58,064 Hawkinson , Chief of the National Guard 202 00:07:58,064 --> 00:08:00,120 Bureau and Brigadier General Charles 203 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,380 walker , the Director of Office of 204 00:08:02,380 --> 00:08:04,880 complex investigations . Thank you both 205 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,170 for being here today and we look 206 00:08:07,170 --> 00:08:09,530 forward to hearing from you . Please 207 00:08:09,530 --> 00:08:11,086 begin . General Hawkinson . 208 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,673 You may have to amuse yourself . 209 00:08:37,940 --> 00:08:40,107 Can you hear us general , Can you give 210 00:08:40,107 --> 00:08:42,384 us a thumbs up if you can hear us Okay ? 211 00:08:42,384 --> 00:08:44,560 But you're we can't hear you . So 212 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,420 why don't we move on to Brigadier 213 00:08:50,420 --> 00:08:52,642 General Charles walker and maybe in the 214 00:08:52,642 --> 00:08:55,330 interim you can get your technology 215 00:08:55,340 --> 00:08:57,960 figured out there . Have someone on 216 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,660 your staff help you Alright . Um 217 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,520 Brigadier general walker chair 218 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,160 spear , ranking member , Gallagher and 219 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,216 all the distinguished members of the 220 00:09:09,216 --> 00:09:11,327 subcommittee . It's my pleasure to be 221 00:09:11,327 --> 00:09:13,440 here today and offer testimony with 222 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,551 respect to what the Office of complex 223 00:09:15,551 --> 00:09:18,180 investigations brings to this . As 224 00:09:18,190 --> 00:09:20,720 chair spear points out , it is a poison 225 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,330 within our ranks and the National Guard 226 00:09:23,330 --> 00:09:24,997 at all levels is committed to 227 00:09:24,997 --> 00:09:27,330 eradicating sexual violence against all 228 00:09:27,330 --> 00:09:29,740 service members . Today . We hope to 229 00:09:29,740 --> 00:09:32,950 testify about the unique particular 230 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,170 aspects of National Guard Service , 231 00:09:35,170 --> 00:09:38,050 which at times may create gaps in our 232 00:09:38,050 --> 00:09:40,910 ability to to handle criminal activity 233 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,030 within our military service , but also 234 00:09:44,030 --> 00:09:46,290 to reinforce the fact that these 235 00:09:46,290 --> 00:09:48,880 matters are being taken serious and the 236 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,050 avenues that are available for military 237 00:09:52,060 --> 00:09:54,116 justice . And I will use that not as 238 00:09:54,116 --> 00:09:56,490 the term of art military justice , but 239 00:09:56,490 --> 00:09:58,546 the fact that guards , men and women 240 00:09:58,546 --> 00:10:00,601 who are serving in a non federalized 241 00:10:00,601 --> 00:10:03,550 capacity are serving as citizen 242 00:10:03,550 --> 00:10:05,750 soldiers and airmen , which entitles 243 00:10:05,750 --> 00:10:09,340 them to the same protections as any 244 00:10:09,340 --> 00:10:11,507 other citizen within their community , 245 00:10:11,507 --> 00:10:13,673 which is why local law enforcement and 246 00:10:13,673 --> 00:10:15,840 local prosecution computers are are 247 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,951 avenue for handling criminal activity 248 00:10:17,951 --> 00:10:19,980 in the National Guard . Certainly , 249 00:10:19,980 --> 00:10:22,147 General Hawkinson is opening statement 250 00:10:22,147 --> 00:10:26,110 covers the gamut of activities and uh 251 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,176 situations within the guard that are 252 00:10:28,176 --> 00:10:30,398 subject to this hearing and I hope that 253 00:10:30,398 --> 00:10:32,342 he'll be on shortly so that he can 254 00:10:32,342 --> 00:10:34,509 elaborate on those things . My limited 255 00:10:34,509 --> 00:10:36,620 scope is as director of the Office of 256 00:10:36,620 --> 00:10:40,180 complex investigations which if this is 257 00:10:40,180 --> 00:10:42,610 the appropriate time I can go into the 258 00:10:42,620 --> 00:10:44,650 details about the Office of complex 259 00:10:44,650 --> 00:10:46,872 investigation in the hopes that General 260 00:10:46,872 --> 00:10:49,750 Hokanson can come on board and give the 261 00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:51,917 opening statement that does justice to 262 00:10:51,917 --> 00:10:54,040 exactly where the National Guard is 263 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,700 coming to you today on this issue . But 264 00:10:57,700 --> 00:11:00,280 as has already been pointed out in uh 265 00:11:00,290 --> 00:11:02,610 ranking member Gallagher's opening the 266 00:11:02,610 --> 00:11:05,100 office of complex investigation began 267 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:08,630 in 2012 . It is a direct outgrowth of 268 00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:11,560 the last time that Congress was 269 00:11:11,570 --> 00:11:13,990 intimately involved with the military 270 00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:16,390 and the issues of sexual assault . Back 271 00:11:16,390 --> 00:11:18,930 in 2012 , there were a number of cases 272 00:11:18,930 --> 00:11:20,920 in which military members had 273 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,087 complained and rightfully so about the 274 00:11:23,087 --> 00:11:25,650 handling of the investigations and the 275 00:11:25,650 --> 00:11:27,910 lack of results with prosecutions 276 00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:30,450 related to their sexual assault cases 277 00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:33,560 as a result of that D . O . D . 278 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:35,671 Instructions and D . O . D . Guidance 279 00:11:35,671 --> 00:11:38,460 was promulgated , which required that 280 00:11:38,540 --> 00:11:41,020 commanders no longer use their 281 00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:44,440 indigenous organic resources to 282 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,300 investigate sexual assaults and that 283 00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:49,522 all sexual assault allegations would be 284 00:11:49,522 --> 00:11:51,350 referred to military criminal 285 00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:54,050 investigative organizations such as the 286 00:11:54,050 --> 00:11:56,330 Office of Special Investigation for the 287 00:11:56,330 --> 00:11:59,530 Active Duty Air Force or C . I . D . 288 00:11:59,530 --> 00:12:01,752 The Criminal Investigation division for 289 00:12:01,752 --> 00:12:04,350 the army . But unlike those active and 290 00:12:04,350 --> 00:12:06,350 reserve components that serve under 291 00:12:06,350 --> 00:12:09,040 title 10 Guards , men and women do not 292 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:10,873 have access to that due to their 293 00:12:10,873 --> 00:12:14,490 service in non federalized status . So 294 00:12:14,490 --> 00:12:16,760 to fill that gap , we created the 295 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,470 Office of complex investigation which 296 00:12:19,470 --> 00:12:22,990 would help in instances where local law 297 00:12:22,990 --> 00:12:25,750 enforcement , which is our first line 298 00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:27,694 of defense against sexual violence 299 00:12:27,694 --> 00:12:30,560 allegations , Is either unwilling or 300 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:33,020 unable to investigate thoroughly those 301 00:12:33,020 --> 00:12:35,250 allegations . In those limited 302 00:12:35,250 --> 00:12:37,139 instances , the office of complex 303 00:12:37,139 --> 00:12:39,730 investigation steps in and provides an 304 00:12:39,740 --> 00:12:42,420 investigative tool for the 54 adjutants 305 00:12:42,420 --> 00:12:45,870 general . These investigations include 306 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,140 only sexual assault allegations , but 307 00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:52,261 we're using the Department of Defense 308 00:12:52,261 --> 00:12:54,428 definition for sexual assault was very 309 00:12:54,428 --> 00:12:57,010 broad and encompassing everything from 310 00:12:57,010 --> 00:12:58,940 a groping all the way towards a 311 00:12:58,940 --> 00:13:02,680 penetrative sexual assault . We in the 312 00:13:02,690 --> 00:13:04,746 Office of Complex Investigation or a 313 00:13:04,746 --> 00:13:07,420 centralized asset primarily based out 314 00:13:07,420 --> 00:13:09,750 of Andrews Air Force Base . We provide 315 00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:12,780 investigative capacity which will allow 316 00:13:12,780 --> 00:13:15,930 us to provide one a consistent ability , 317 00:13:15,940 --> 00:13:19,510 uh , and a an 318 00:13:19,510 --> 00:13:23,070 ability to provide a fair and 319 00:13:23,070 --> 00:13:25,181 balanced report back to the State and 320 00:13:25,181 --> 00:13:27,237 Assistant General for administrative 321 00:13:27,237 --> 00:13:29,620 action . And that's a nuance that I I 322 00:13:29,620 --> 00:13:31,950 have to point out , we are not a 323 00:13:31,950 --> 00:13:34,061 criminal organization , investigative 324 00:13:34,061 --> 00:13:35,506 organization . We provide 325 00:13:35,506 --> 00:13:37,780 administrative investigations as a 326 00:13:37,780 --> 00:13:40,750 backstop so that victims and the 327 00:13:40,750 --> 00:13:43,240 National Guard will have an opportunity 328 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,630 to address sexual violence against its 329 00:13:45,630 --> 00:13:47,860 members and to remove those within our 330 00:13:47,860 --> 00:13:50,750 ranks who may be perpetrators in an 331 00:13:50,750 --> 00:13:53,220 administrative context . What we are 332 00:13:53,220 --> 00:13:55,960 not is a criminal context , which 333 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,180 as you know , in a criminal setting . 334 00:13:59,190 --> 00:14:01,340 Uh , there's jail time , potentially 335 00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:03,960 there's sexual registries and other 336 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:06,840 controls that our society is deemed 337 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,007 appropriate for these type of crimes . 338 00:14:09,007 --> 00:14:11,040 So oh ci is not the default for the 339 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:12,929 National Guard , it is merely the 340 00:14:12,929 --> 00:14:15,151 avenue that we resort to when local law 341 00:14:15,151 --> 00:14:18,060 enforcement is unable or unwilling for 342 00:14:18,060 --> 00:14:20,080 a variety of circumstances to 343 00:14:20,090 --> 00:14:22,980 adequately investigate those instances 344 00:14:22,990 --> 00:14:26,090 of sexual violence . And at this time I 345 00:14:26,090 --> 00:14:29,400 will end my my my statements 346 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,584 in hopes that General Hokanson can 347 00:14:31,584 --> 00:14:33,500 carry forward with his more broad 348 00:14:33,510 --> 00:14:35,940 opening statements which encompasses 349 00:14:35,940 --> 00:14:38,107 all aspects of what the National Guard 350 00:14:38,107 --> 00:14:40,162 is doing with respect to eradicating 351 00:14:40,162 --> 00:14:42,107 sexual violence within our force . 352 00:14:42,740 --> 00:14:44,851 Thank you . Brigadier General General 353 00:14:44,851 --> 00:14:48,560 Hokanson , are you live now Sheriff 354 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,782 here we started . Can you hear me now ? 355 00:14:50,782 --> 00:14:52,671 We certainly can please proceed . 356 00:14:52,671 --> 00:14:55,500 Outstanding . Thank you . Good 357 00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:57,500 afternoon , Chair , spear , ranking 358 00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:59,333 member , Gallagher and honorable 359 00:14:59,333 --> 00:15:01,556 honorable members of the subcommittee . 360 00:15:01,556 --> 00:15:03,667 Thank you for inviting general walker 361 00:15:03,667 --> 00:15:06,050 and I testify before you today in case 362 00:15:06,050 --> 00:15:08,217 you have not heard it directly from me 363 00:15:08,217 --> 00:15:10,439 already . I want to make it clear there 364 00:15:10,439 --> 00:15:12,328 is no place for sexual assault or 365 00:15:12,328 --> 00:15:14,550 sexual harassment in our nation's armed 366 00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:17,100 forces or anywhere else for that matter . 367 00:15:17,940 --> 00:15:19,829 There is no act more heinous than 368 00:15:19,829 --> 00:15:22,051 violating the trust and well being of a 369 00:15:22,051 --> 00:15:25,900 sailor soldier , airman or anyone . The 370 00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:27,622 women and men who serve in our 371 00:15:27,622 --> 00:15:29,678 formations raised their right hand , 372 00:15:29,678 --> 00:15:31,733 took an oath to the constitution and 373 00:15:31,733 --> 00:15:33,956 step forward to fight our nation's wars 374 00:15:33,956 --> 00:15:36,067 and serve our communities in times of 375 00:15:36,067 --> 00:15:38,550 crisis , build them strong leadership 376 00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:40,383 at every level and we owe them a 377 00:15:40,383 --> 00:15:42,480 workplace free from the violence of 378 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,180 assault and harassment . This is a 379 00:15:45,180 --> 00:15:47,810 serious problem and we recognize it as 380 00:15:47,810 --> 00:15:50,860 such . That is why shortly after 381 00:15:50,860 --> 00:15:52,804 becoming the chief of the National 382 00:15:52,804 --> 00:15:54,749 Guard Bureau , I met with our team 383 00:15:54,749 --> 00:15:56,693 because despite all our efforts we 384 00:15:56,693 --> 00:15:58,916 didn't seem to be making a difference . 385 00:15:59,820 --> 00:16:01,987 As a result I ordered the formation of 386 00:16:01,987 --> 00:16:04,670 a task force composed of National Guard 387 00:16:04,670 --> 00:16:06,892 Bureau leaders and representatives from 388 00:16:06,892 --> 00:16:09,610 our 54 states territories in D . C . To 389 00:16:09,610 --> 00:16:12,390 focus on preventing sexual assault and 390 00:16:12,390 --> 00:16:16,040 suicide within our range over the 391 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,110 course of the next six months . As a 392 00:16:18,110 --> 00:16:19,999 result of the task force in depth 393 00:16:19,999 --> 00:16:22,530 examinations , We identified 19 394 00:16:22,530 --> 00:16:24,350 recommendations to improve our 395 00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:27,330 guardsmen safety . These 396 00:16:27,330 --> 00:16:29,880 recommendations fall into six strategic 397 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,910 areas . Leader , education , growing a 398 00:16:32,910 --> 00:16:35,500 healthy culture , resource distribution 399 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,860 and communication partnerships , 400 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,140 standardization of efforts and 401 00:16:40,140 --> 00:16:42,700 effective measurement . Upon review of 402 00:16:42,700 --> 00:16:44,920 their recommendations , I accepted all 403 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,920 of them taken together . They mean one 404 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,430 thing above all we need a greater focus 405 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,780 on prevention to eliminate sexual 406 00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:54,910 assault and harassment in our 407 00:16:54,910 --> 00:16:58,590 formations . In addition we are 408 00:16:58,590 --> 00:17:00,757 strongly engaged in the implementation 409 00:17:00,757 --> 00:17:02,646 of Secretary Austin's Independent 410 00:17:02,646 --> 00:17:05,000 Review Commission recommendations to 411 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,420 help improve our prevention program . 412 00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:09,309 Statement to the National Guard's 413 00:17:09,309 --> 00:17:11,280 unique operating environment and 414 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,570 continue to enhance victim care and 415 00:17:13,570 --> 00:17:17,010 support . It was evident from our task 416 00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:18,899 force that prevention starts with 417 00:17:18,899 --> 00:17:21,580 creating a culture of trust regards men 418 00:17:21,580 --> 00:17:23,802 and their families must have confidence 419 00:17:23,802 --> 00:17:25,969 in their chain of command . We need to 420 00:17:25,969 --> 00:17:28,136 have confidence in our victim advocacy 421 00:17:28,136 --> 00:17:30,191 and response services . They need to 422 00:17:30,191 --> 00:17:32,191 have confidence in the offices that 423 00:17:32,191 --> 00:17:34,270 investigate sexual assault and they 424 00:17:34,270 --> 00:17:36,437 need to have confidence that offenders 425 00:17:36,437 --> 00:17:38,930 will be held accountable . We have to 426 00:17:38,930 --> 00:17:40,986 earn that confidence by establishing 427 00:17:40,986 --> 00:17:43,097 and maintaining a culture of trust in 428 00:17:43,097 --> 00:17:45,152 every state and territory in D . C . 429 00:17:45,152 --> 00:17:47,260 And at every level of leadership . 430 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,351 We are taking action on building that 431 00:17:51,351 --> 00:17:53,518 culture of trust and preventing sexual 432 00:17:53,518 --> 00:17:55,629 assault and harassment in our ranks . 433 00:17:55,629 --> 00:17:57,740 We are working on ways to help states 434 00:17:57,740 --> 00:17:59,907 with better guidance and resources and 435 00:17:59,907 --> 00:18:01,907 analyzing data that focuses on risk 436 00:18:01,907 --> 00:18:05,230 factors so we can directly affect those 437 00:18:05,230 --> 00:18:08,190 risk factors . In addition to the 438 00:18:08,190 --> 00:18:10,450 sexual assault and suicide task force , 439 00:18:10,940 --> 00:18:12,996 I also made changes to our office of 440 00:18:12,996 --> 00:18:15,460 complex investigations for O . C . I . 441 00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:18,790 These changes included moving oh Ci 442 00:18:18,790 --> 00:18:20,901 from under our general counsel office 443 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,240 and making it a separate standalone 444 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,770 directorate . I also placed a general 445 00:18:25,770 --> 00:18:28,330 officer in charge , as we often do in 446 00:18:28,330 --> 00:18:30,441 the National Guard . We're leveraging 447 00:18:30,441 --> 00:18:32,163 general chuck walk or civilian 448 00:18:32,163 --> 00:18:34,580 experience as a federal judge in that 449 00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:37,990 capacity . In addition we work together 450 00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:40,157 with our accidents general to increase 451 00:18:40,157 --> 00:18:42,268 the number of OC . I investigators by 452 00:18:42,268 --> 00:18:44,720 60% . Which helped to substantially 453 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,100 reduce the case backlog and help 454 00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:50,920 survivors get results . We're 455 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,087 also working with the Attorney General 456 00:18:53,087 --> 00:18:55,309 to hire Violence Prevention Integrators 457 00:18:55,309 --> 00:18:57,690 as resources become available . These 458 00:18:57,690 --> 00:18:59,857 officers are responsible for assessing 459 00:18:59,857 --> 00:19:01,690 their state guard sexual assault 460 00:19:01,690 --> 00:19:04,150 response program . Having a properly 461 00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:06,820 trained professionalized force focused 462 00:19:06,820 --> 00:19:08,900 on addressing this issue helps 463 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:10,567 demonstrate our commitment to 464 00:19:10,567 --> 00:19:12,289 eliminating sexual assault and 465 00:19:12,289 --> 00:19:14,233 harassment in the National Guard , 466 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,218 we're also improving prevention 467 00:19:17,218 --> 00:19:19,384 training for Guard members and leaders 468 00:19:19,384 --> 00:19:21,780 at every level in our organization . In 469 00:19:21,780 --> 00:19:23,780 addition to better training , we're 470 00:19:23,780 --> 00:19:25,669 also finding ways to hold leaders 471 00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:27,891 accountable for the culture they create 472 00:19:27,891 --> 00:19:29,860 and overseas we know the work of 473 00:19:29,860 --> 00:19:31,527 preventing sexual assault and 474 00:19:31,527 --> 00:19:33,638 harassment is a challenging process , 475 00:19:33,638 --> 00:19:35,760 but it is of the utmost importance 476 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,696 when we eliminate sexual assault and 477 00:19:39,696 --> 00:19:41,362 harassment , we create a safe 478 00:19:41,362 --> 00:19:43,473 environment where soldiers and airmen 479 00:19:43,473 --> 00:19:45,251 can focus on their jobs , which 480 00:19:45,251 --> 00:19:47,307 improves our readiness and with it , 481 00:19:47,307 --> 00:19:49,670 our ability to fight win America's wars . 482 00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:52,740 Our commitment to preventing sexual 483 00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:54,851 assault and harassment . The National 484 00:19:54,851 --> 00:19:57,018 Guard is fundamental to taking care of 485 00:19:57,018 --> 00:19:58,796 our soldiers , airmen and their 486 00:19:58,796 --> 00:20:00,907 families and as a requirement for the 487 00:20:00,907 --> 00:20:03,018 National Guard to keep his promise to 488 00:20:03,018 --> 00:20:05,940 be always ready . Always there members 489 00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:07,940 of the subcommittee , thank you for 490 00:20:07,940 --> 00:20:09,884 your time and look forward to your 491 00:20:09,884 --> 00:20:12,670 questions . Thank you . General . Uh 492 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,250 let me start off by asking you General 493 00:20:16,250 --> 00:20:20,040 Hokanson , um what part of the 494 00:20:20,050 --> 00:20:22,040 Independent Review Commission's 495 00:20:22,050 --> 00:20:24,050 recommendations Have you not 496 00:20:25,140 --> 00:20:28,970 implemented um your spirit ? We 497 00:20:28,970 --> 00:20:31,026 actually have not implemented any of 498 00:20:31,026 --> 00:20:33,700 this time . We're working very closely 499 00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:35,891 with the services , both the Army and 500 00:20:35,891 --> 00:20:37,447 the Air Force . Look at the 501 00:20:37,447 --> 00:20:39,447 implementation guidance and what is 502 00:20:39,447 --> 00:20:41,558 required to implement each of those . 503 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,251 When you look at the over 80 504 00:20:43,251 --> 00:20:45,340 recommendations from our analysis so 505 00:20:45,340 --> 00:20:48,380 far Over 50 of those apply directly to 506 00:20:48,380 --> 00:20:50,960 the National Guard and many of those do 507 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,960 require resources that we currently 508 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,320 don't have to implement . So , working 509 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,209 at implementing guidance with our 510 00:20:57,209 --> 00:20:59,264 services , both the army and the Air 511 00:20:59,264 --> 00:21:01,487 Force to identify those resources so we 512 00:21:01,487 --> 00:21:03,764 can implement them as soon as possible . 513 00:21:04,740 --> 00:21:08,130 So let me ask you this , 514 00:21:11,540 --> 00:21:13,730 is there any process by which you are 515 00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:17,150 informed when a sexual harassment or 516 00:21:17,150 --> 00:21:19,690 sexual assault case complaint has been 517 00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:22,850 filed within the State National Guard ? 518 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,070 Yes ma'am . So if you look at our 519 00:21:27,070 --> 00:21:29,070 directors of the Army Guard and the 520 00:21:29,070 --> 00:21:31,014 Army National Guard , Um they were 521 00:21:31,014 --> 00:21:33,570 required to be notified within 24 hours 522 00:21:33,580 --> 00:21:36,830 of the case . And if I can really just 523 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,896 take a step back to look at what the 524 00:21:38,896 --> 00:21:42,060 unit commanders responsibility is . And 525 00:21:42,060 --> 00:21:44,970 so There have to be notified within the 526 00:21:44,980 --> 00:21:48,580 1st 24 hours of a sexual assault within 527 00:21:48,580 --> 00:21:51,250 the organization . And they immediately 528 00:21:51,250 --> 00:21:53,450 link that individual up with a victim 529 00:21:53,450 --> 00:21:55,506 advocate to ensure that they get the 530 00:21:55,506 --> 00:21:58,080 care and help that they need . All 531 00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,747 right , let me ask you this . 532 00:21:59,747 --> 00:22:02,940 Lieutenant Colonel James who was raped 533 00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:06,510 by her superior in west in the West 534 00:22:06,510 --> 00:22:09,420 Virginia Guard . Um She was retaliated 535 00:22:09,420 --> 00:22:12,060 against the inspector general was um 536 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,670 able to determine that she um ended 537 00:22:16,670 --> 00:22:20,340 up leaving after one year and she had 538 00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:22,062 post traumatic stress disorder 539 00:22:22,062 --> 00:22:24,173 according to the I . G . Report . Her 540 00:22:24,173 --> 00:22:26,890 assailant was never charged and was 541 00:22:26,890 --> 00:22:29,620 continued and continued to serve . Do 542 00:22:29,620 --> 00:22:31,731 you know who this person is and is he 543 00:22:31,731 --> 00:22:35,650 still serving uh no chairs 544 00:22:35,650 --> 00:22:37,817 here ? I do not know that dumb , but I 545 00:22:37,817 --> 00:22:39,817 can get with our staff to make sure 546 00:22:39,817 --> 00:22:41,928 that we get a but we're counting from 547 00:22:41,928 --> 00:22:44,094 the state of west Virginia . Alright . 548 00:22:44,094 --> 00:22:46,206 So you're going to report back to the 549 00:22:46,206 --> 00:22:48,380 committee about the status of the 550 00:22:48,380 --> 00:22:50,450 perpetrator and 551 00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:55,390 what what what happened ? All right , 552 00:22:55,390 --> 00:22:59,270 let me , let me ask . Um Brigadier 553 00:22:59,270 --> 00:23:03,250 General the 554 00:23:03,260 --> 00:23:05,670 um Okay . 555 00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:13,340 Do you have you've seen an increase in 556 00:23:13,340 --> 00:23:15,451 the number of cases that have come to 557 00:23:15,451 --> 00:23:19,350 your attention recently ? Um Do you 558 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:22,640 have enough staff to respond to those 559 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,090 cases ? Thank you . Chair Spear . And 560 00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:28,410 again , it's every year it seems to be 561 00:23:28,410 --> 00:23:30,650 a moving target on the number of cases 562 00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:34,420 obviously with the renewed and 563 00:23:34,430 --> 00:23:37,710 enhanced ability to actually intake 564 00:23:37,710 --> 00:23:40,070 cases , we've seen a jump in cases 565 00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:42,820 particularly this fiscal year . Uh We 566 00:23:42,820 --> 00:23:45,290 were running uh definitely ahead of 567 00:23:45,290 --> 00:23:47,346 what we had historically in any year 568 00:23:47,346 --> 00:23:50,740 already . We do have enough staff to to 569 00:23:50,740 --> 00:23:52,750 investigate these cases . How many 570 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,850 probably staff members do you have ? We 571 00:23:55,850 --> 00:23:59,010 have 29 dedicated investigators that 572 00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:01,390 are either resident at Joint Base 573 00:24:01,390 --> 00:24:04,860 Andrews or residing within at their in 574 00:24:04,860 --> 00:24:06,527 their home states ? As remote 575 00:24:06,527 --> 00:24:09,120 investigators ? All of with whom we 576 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:11,064 pair in teams of two to go out and 577 00:24:11,064 --> 00:24:13,300 investigate any allegation that we 578 00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:15,356 received from an adjective General . 579 00:24:15,356 --> 00:24:17,910 How many cases did you have filed last 580 00:24:17,910 --> 00:24:20,940 year ? Last year I believe we had a 581 00:24:20,940 --> 00:24:24,710 total of 140 145 582 00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:28,100 cases . Uh that uh oh ci 583 00:24:28,110 --> 00:24:31,400 investor that we opened as O CI 584 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,160 investigations . Do you track the 585 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,840 serial offenders ? We absolutely 586 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,920 do . We track all perpetrators within 587 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,310 our database so that if we get 588 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,800 indications from any new cases of any 589 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,290 repeat offenders were able to identify 590 00:24:49,290 --> 00:24:52,570 those and report back to the States and 591 00:24:52,570 --> 00:24:55,110 then do further analytics on why . In 592 00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:58,670 fact someone would be a serial 593 00:24:58,670 --> 00:25:00,892 offender given our current system which 594 00:25:00,892 --> 00:25:03,350 allows us to investigate sexual 595 00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:05,572 assaults at least administratively . So 596 00:25:05,580 --> 00:25:08,250 we are tracking statistically . Those 597 00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:10,417 please provide the committee with with 598 00:25:10,417 --> 00:25:12,472 that . How many serial predators you 599 00:25:12,472 --> 00:25:16,450 have ? Absolutely . All 600 00:25:16,450 --> 00:25:19,760 right . My understanding is through 601 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,620 news reports that the Guard has 602 00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:23,509 undertaken a number of changes to 603 00:25:23,509 --> 00:25:25,564 address its handling of incidents of 604 00:25:25,564 --> 00:25:27,453 sexual assault , including better 605 00:25:27,453 --> 00:25:29,564 training , increased transparency and 606 00:25:29,564 --> 00:25:31,231 more prevent more emphasis on 607 00:25:31,231 --> 00:25:33,530 prevention . Among the changes to 608 00:25:33,530 --> 00:25:35,586 better support local units , trained 609 00:25:35,586 --> 00:25:37,697 people and hold leaders accountable . 610 00:25:37,697 --> 00:25:39,419 The bureau's office of complex 611 00:25:39,419 --> 00:25:41,252 investigations was reorganized . 612 00:25:41,252 --> 00:25:44,340 However , a basic internet search for 613 00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:47,430 information on OC . I provides no 614 00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:49,486 publicly available information about 615 00:25:49,486 --> 00:25:52,290 the office its purposes and how to 616 00:25:52,290 --> 00:25:56,280 contact O CI officials . So how does 617 00:25:56,290 --> 00:25:58,179 OC . I ensure that members of the 618 00:25:58,179 --> 00:26:00,012 National Guard , including those 619 00:26:00,012 --> 00:26:01,850 involved in or conducting 620 00:26:01,850 --> 00:26:04,190 investigations are aware of the offices 621 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,170 existence . Well , chair spear 622 00:26:08,170 --> 00:26:10,670 those the the Adjutants General . And 623 00:26:10,670 --> 00:26:12,559 that's what triggers an Office of 624 00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:15,500 complex investigation 625 00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:18,110 investigation . But we want to make 626 00:26:18,110 --> 00:26:20,160 sure the victims know that there is 627 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,910 somewhere to go and there's no place 628 00:26:23,140 --> 00:26:26,320 that they can google on the internet to 629 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,400 find out about your office ? Well and 630 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,330 again our office is not the primary 631 00:26:32,330 --> 00:26:34,650 focus if a crime has been committed and 632 00:26:34,650 --> 00:26:37,750 a sexual assault allegation . The first 633 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,960 line of contact is with local law 634 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,071 enforcement . And that's one of those 635 00:26:43,071 --> 00:26:44,849 nuances . The office of complex 636 00:26:44,849 --> 00:26:46,849 investigation does not get involved 637 00:26:46,849 --> 00:26:48,970 into local law enforcement has either 638 00:26:48,970 --> 00:26:51,360 declined or is unable to investigate . 639 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,173 Then the determination of whether an OC . 640 00:26:54,173 --> 00:26:56,480 I . Investigation is appropriate is 641 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,591 done with a request from the agitated 642 00:26:58,591 --> 00:27:00,647 general which we coordinate with the 643 00:27:00,647 --> 00:27:03,450 state and then open a case for 644 00:27:03,450 --> 00:27:05,430 investigation . So victims you 645 00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:07,580 investigate Lieutenant Colonel James 646 00:27:07,580 --> 00:27:11,380 complaint . Uh No we did not . And what 647 00:27:11,380 --> 00:27:14,540 knowledge based on the timing . I'm not 648 00:27:14,540 --> 00:27:18,050 sure that the office was 649 00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:20,850 available at that time as a resource so 650 00:27:20,860 --> 00:27:23,840 I can verify that . But obviously I'm 651 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,650 unaware at this time specifically if 652 00:27:26,650 --> 00:27:28,872 her case was investigated by our office 653 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,462 based on the fact that I have read some 654 00:27:31,462 --> 00:27:34,270 in the press about her situation . The 655 00:27:34,270 --> 00:27:36,326 timing of her case may not have been 656 00:27:36,326 --> 00:27:38,670 outside the O . C . I . Window in which 657 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,958 that would have been an avenue for her . 658 00:27:40,958 --> 00:27:42,624 And again we would only do an 659 00:27:42,624 --> 00:27:45,290 administrative investigation . Uh no 660 00:27:45,290 --> 00:27:47,760 matter when that case was filed it 661 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,850 would have been subject to a local 662 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,010 criminal investigation and prosecution 663 00:27:53,020 --> 00:27:56,120 outside of military channels so I can 664 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,231 get all the background information on 665 00:27:58,231 --> 00:28:00,231 that . And we'll report back on all 666 00:28:00,231 --> 00:28:02,398 those details . Great , thank you . My 667 00:28:02,398 --> 00:28:04,780 time has expired substantially . Um , 668 00:28:04,790 --> 00:28:06,901 Mr Gallagher you're recognized for an 669 00:28:06,901 --> 00:28:10,850 additional two minutes General Hokanson . 670 00:28:10,860 --> 00:28:13,027 What is the sort of day to day reality 671 00:28:13,027 --> 00:28:15,630 of your communication and cooperation 672 00:28:15,630 --> 00:28:18,140 with the tags ? The Adjutants General 673 00:28:18,140 --> 00:28:20,196 on this issue ? Do you think most of 674 00:28:20,196 --> 00:28:22,418 them understand the importance of these 675 00:28:22,418 --> 00:28:25,770 cases ? But Kirsten Gallagher and I 676 00:28:25,770 --> 00:28:28,030 would say that Oliver and accidents 677 00:28:28,030 --> 00:28:30,086 general understand the importance of 678 00:28:30,086 --> 00:28:32,790 this across the entire formation . And 679 00:28:32,790 --> 00:28:35,012 when you look at my communications with 680 00:28:35,012 --> 00:28:37,123 the adjectives general . Um , since I 681 00:28:37,123 --> 00:28:39,234 became the chief , um , I have a call 682 00:28:39,234 --> 00:28:41,290 with them every single week where we 683 00:28:41,290 --> 00:28:42,957 discuss any issues across the 684 00:28:42,957 --> 00:28:45,180 organization and previously , uh , some 685 00:28:45,180 --> 00:28:47,380 of those related to this have been the 686 00:28:47,380 --> 00:28:49,602 education and training of our our SAARC 687 00:28:49,602 --> 00:28:51,824 and sharp personnel and we were able to 688 00:28:51,824 --> 00:28:53,824 address that right away through our 689 00:28:53,824 --> 00:28:55,991 personnel branch and training . And so 690 00:28:55,991 --> 00:28:58,158 I have a touch point every single week 691 00:28:58,158 --> 00:29:00,269 with the accidents general . And then 692 00:29:00,269 --> 00:29:02,436 three times a year we all get together 693 00:29:02,436 --> 00:29:04,269 as a group , usually in person , 694 00:29:04,269 --> 00:29:06,380 although virtually the last couple of 695 00:29:06,380 --> 00:29:08,436 times and have a guard senior leader 696 00:29:08,436 --> 00:29:10,658 conference which our staff gets updates 697 00:29:10,658 --> 00:29:12,769 and part of that usually includes our 698 00:29:12,769 --> 00:29:14,824 sexual assault and sexual harassment 699 00:29:14,824 --> 00:29:16,936 programs and then in addition to that 700 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,873 throughout the year I go to some 701 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,936 specific regions so we can meet in a 702 00:29:20,936 --> 00:29:23,620 smaller group and have conversations 703 00:29:23,620 --> 00:29:25,676 about regional issues . The tags are 704 00:29:25,676 --> 00:29:27,898 facing and any time it's something like 705 00:29:27,898 --> 00:29:29,842 that will make sure that we've got 706 00:29:29,842 --> 00:29:31,953 representatives to address any sexual 707 00:29:31,953 --> 00:29:34,064 assault or sexual harassment issues . 708 00:29:34,064 --> 00:29:35,953 And lastly on a daily basis , the 709 00:29:35,953 --> 00:29:38,009 National Guard Bureau staff and both 710 00:29:38,009 --> 00:29:40,176 the Director of the Army Guard and the 711 00:29:40,176 --> 00:29:42,398 Air Guard are in constant communication 712 00:29:42,398 --> 00:29:44,731 with the 54 States territories in D . C . 713 00:29:44,731 --> 00:29:46,850 And specifically when I tell the 714 00:29:46,850 --> 00:29:49,310 adjutants general , I respond by email 715 00:29:49,310 --> 00:29:52,040 or phone call within 24 hours anytime 716 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,350 one of them reaches out to me to ensure 717 00:29:54,350 --> 00:29:56,790 that there is no delay in any support 718 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,030 or any concerns that they may have in 719 00:29:59,030 --> 00:30:01,141 any way that we can provide support . 720 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,370 Thank you as I read your testimony . So 721 00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:06,970 I think the biggest theme or take away 722 00:30:06,970 --> 00:30:10,790 I have from it is this this emphasis on 723 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,040 prevention , how prevention is key . 724 00:30:14,050 --> 00:30:16,430 Just based on your experience with this 725 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,260 issue . What lines of effort for 726 00:30:20,260 --> 00:30:22,430 prevention do you think are our most 727 00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:24,652 promising ? Where where you think would 728 00:30:24,652 --> 00:30:27,720 be smart for us to invest more in terms 729 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,670 of prevention activities ? Well , 730 00:30:31,670 --> 00:30:33,781 congressman , I think one of the best 731 00:30:33,781 --> 00:30:35,892 ways is to make sure that we have the 732 00:30:35,892 --> 00:30:38,114 resources to have the trained personnel 733 00:30:38,114 --> 00:30:40,710 at the right level to really train and 734 00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:42,932 work with our leadership at every level 735 00:30:42,932 --> 00:30:44,988 from the lowest level to the highest 736 00:30:44,988 --> 00:30:47,340 level . And part of that is is making 737 00:30:47,340 --> 00:30:49,840 sure that our training actually has an 738 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,007 impact where we're not just talking to 739 00:30:52,007 --> 00:30:54,062 people , but it's interactive and we 740 00:30:54,062 --> 00:30:56,229 need the intent of what that education 741 00:30:56,229 --> 00:30:59,310 is intended to do . And frankly it's 742 00:30:59,310 --> 00:31:01,540 not just making sure that we follow the 743 00:31:01,540 --> 00:31:03,540 rules but teaching others that that 744 00:31:03,540 --> 00:31:05,890 respect is both ways we have to have an 745 00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:08,800 basically an environment with with 746 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,022 flourishes with dignity and respect and 747 00:31:11,022 --> 00:31:12,967 it's got to be safe and we have to 748 00:31:12,967 --> 00:31:15,078 encourage anyone that's there whether 749 00:31:15,078 --> 00:31:17,189 in the chain of command or not and we 750 00:31:17,189 --> 00:31:19,133 call this bystander intervention , 751 00:31:19,140 --> 00:31:21,084 everyone needs to be aware of what 752 00:31:21,084 --> 00:31:23,251 sexual assault and harassment is . And 753 00:31:23,251 --> 00:31:25,770 we want to encourage everyone to take 754 00:31:25,780 --> 00:31:27,836 action if they see this occurring at 755 00:31:27,836 --> 00:31:31,620 any time . I appreciate that uh sort of 756 00:31:31,620 --> 00:31:34,010 a related question for Brigadier 757 00:31:34,010 --> 00:31:36,232 general walker . You know , now that we 758 00:31:36,232 --> 00:31:38,566 have a decade of experience with with O . 759 00:31:38,566 --> 00:31:41,630 C . I . Do you what are your research 760 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,862 resource constraints ? Do you feel like 761 00:31:43,862 --> 00:31:45,973 you have enough investigators to meet 762 00:31:45,973 --> 00:31:49,410 the demand from States right now ? Well , 763 00:31:49,410 --> 00:31:52,670 thank you . And really the the resource 764 00:31:52,670 --> 00:31:55,370 issue has ironically taken care of 765 00:31:55,370 --> 00:31:58,290 itself to some extent in the recent 766 00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:00,720 amendments to the N . D . A . Which 767 00:32:00,730 --> 00:32:03,530 historically , oh see I had operated 768 00:32:03,530 --> 00:32:06,420 with members who were on what in 769 00:32:06,420 --> 00:32:10,120 essence is temporary duty at O . C . 770 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,870 I . Which were limited in the number of 771 00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:14,981 years in which they can serve outside 772 00:32:14,981 --> 00:32:17,000 of their States . We've just gotten 773 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,040 relief from that in that we can now 774 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,950 have members up to five years and we're 775 00:32:21,950 --> 00:32:24,300 implementing that as policy now within 776 00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:26,356 the Guard Bureau waiting for service 777 00:32:26,356 --> 00:32:28,522 direction on that . And that will go a 778 00:32:28,522 --> 00:32:30,467 long way to us keeping our trained 779 00:32:30,467 --> 00:32:32,300 investigators , the more trained 780 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:34,356 investigator is the higher volume of 781 00:32:34,356 --> 00:32:36,411 cases they can investigate . So it's 782 00:32:36,411 --> 00:32:38,522 obviously advantageous to keep people 783 00:32:38,522 --> 00:32:40,578 there longer . In addition to that , 784 00:32:40,578 --> 00:32:42,800 one of the things that General Hokanson 785 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,911 also has done is now we have civilian 786 00:32:44,911 --> 00:32:48,490 resources . So we have hired four full 787 00:32:48,490 --> 00:32:52,110 time civilian investigators and plan to 788 00:32:52,110 --> 00:32:54,277 hire several more such that we'll have 789 00:32:54,277 --> 00:32:56,250 that what I'll call a backbone of 790 00:32:56,250 --> 00:32:58,410 experienced investigators . That will 791 00:32:58,420 --> 00:33:00,730 be the continuity with our organization 792 00:33:00,730 --> 00:33:02,563 to either train new people or to 793 00:33:02,563 --> 00:33:04,619 provide that leadership base that we 794 00:33:04,619 --> 00:33:06,900 need as people rotate in and out for 795 00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:09,122 their tours and oh , CI on the military 796 00:33:09,122 --> 00:33:11,770 side . So from a resource perspective , 797 00:33:11,780 --> 00:33:14,880 uh , in the last uh year that General 798 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,450 Hokanson has been on board , we've made 799 00:33:17,450 --> 00:33:19,561 great strides into ensuring that this 800 00:33:19,561 --> 00:33:21,228 is an enduring mission that's 801 00:33:21,228 --> 00:33:23,970 sustainable without absolutely retired , 802 00:33:24,050 --> 00:33:27,510 uh , relying on merely 803 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,687 volunteers from the field who are here 804 00:33:29,687 --> 00:33:31,853 for a limited period of time . So as I 805 00:33:31,853 --> 00:33:33,964 sit here today with the caseload that 806 00:33:33,964 --> 00:33:35,930 we have , we can meet uh , the 807 00:33:35,930 --> 00:33:38,570 investigative burden that that we have . 808 00:33:38,580 --> 00:33:41,380 However , that again is a moving target 809 00:33:41,380 --> 00:33:43,760 depending on the number of cases we get 810 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,816 if there were to be some significant 811 00:33:45,816 --> 00:33:48,093 change in the volume . But as of today , 812 00:33:48,100 --> 00:33:50,470 oh , CI is meeting the demand based off 813 00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:53,180 the personnel . Well , uh , my time is 814 00:33:53,180 --> 00:33:55,630 expired , but it's good to note what 815 00:33:55,630 --> 00:33:57,741 sounds like sort of cautious optimism 816 00:33:57,741 --> 00:33:59,519 that you're moving in the right 817 00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:01,352 direction because I think in the 818 00:34:01,352 --> 00:34:04,510 february 2017 jail report in the 2018 819 00:34:05,050 --> 00:34:07,050 guard report to Congress and then a 820 00:34:07,050 --> 00:34:10,520 2018 jail report on O CI 821 00:34:10,530 --> 00:34:13,320 timeliness came out as an issue . The 822 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,542 timeliness of the investigations wasn't 823 00:34:15,542 --> 00:34:17,542 where we needed it to be . And so I 824 00:34:17,542 --> 00:34:19,653 think we're interested in making sure 825 00:34:20,140 --> 00:34:22,780 you have the resources you need to do 826 00:34:22,780 --> 00:34:25,113 these investigations in a timely manner . 827 00:34:25,113 --> 00:34:27,169 And with that I yield back Gentleman 828 00:34:27,169 --> 00:34:29,220 yields back . The gentlewoman from 829 00:34:29,220 --> 00:34:31,387 Pennsylvania MS Hoolahan is recognized 830 00:34:31,387 --> 00:34:33,760 for five minutes . Thank you madam 831 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,927 Chair uh and thank you so much for the 832 00:34:35,927 --> 00:34:37,871 opportunity to talk to both of you 833 00:34:37,871 --> 00:34:40,038 today and I will actually be following 834 00:34:40,038 --> 00:34:42,220 up on the questions about timeliness . 835 00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:44,920 General Wilkinson . My questions , um , 836 00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:46,763 sort of follow up as well on the 837 00:34:46,763 --> 00:34:48,597 conversations that you and I had 838 00:34:48,597 --> 00:34:50,708 yesterday and I appreciate the chance 839 00:34:50,708 --> 00:34:52,819 to have spoken to you yesterday to go 840 00:34:52,819 --> 00:34:54,874 over some very serious concerns that 841 00:34:54,874 --> 00:34:57,097 I've had with ongoing investigations of 842 00:34:57,097 --> 00:34:59,263 sexual harassment allegations , as you 843 00:34:59,263 --> 00:35:01,597 know at Horsham Air National Guard Base . 844 00:35:01,597 --> 00:35:03,263 Uh portion is in my colleague 845 00:35:03,263 --> 00:35:03,230 Representative Madeleine Dean's 846 00:35:03,230 --> 00:35:05,230 district and I've been working very 847 00:35:05,230 --> 00:35:07,341 closely with her office since June of 848 00:35:07,341 --> 00:35:09,508 2020 . Speaking to timeliness , we are 849 00:35:09,508 --> 00:35:11,990 now , as we all know in 2022 after 850 00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:13,990 receiving an outpouring of rightful 851 00:35:13,990 --> 00:35:16,530 concern from my constituents . This 852 00:35:16,530 --> 00:35:18,530 case has been plagued by repeated 853 00:35:18,530 --> 00:35:20,363 delays as we talked about in our 854 00:35:20,363 --> 00:35:22,641 conversations and incomplete reporting . 855 00:35:22,650 --> 00:35:24,270 And that's been leading many 856 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,280 unfortunately to conclude that it's 857 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,391 simply being slow rolled to the point 858 00:35:28,391 --> 00:35:30,447 where demands for any accountability 859 00:35:30,447 --> 00:35:33,080 disappear . So I know that you share my 860 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,913 commitment to eradicating sexual 861 00:35:34,913 --> 00:35:36,691 harassment and assault from the 862 00:35:36,691 --> 00:35:38,858 National Guard sir . And I just wanted 863 00:35:38,858 --> 00:35:40,858 to hear your commitment that you'll 864 00:35:40,858 --> 00:35:43,080 look into the Horsham investigation and 865 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,802 make sure that there is proper 866 00:35:44,802 --> 00:35:46,858 oversight and that the investigation 867 00:35:46,858 --> 00:35:49,080 itself is concluded without any further 868 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,302 and undue delays or . Yes congressman . 869 00:35:51,302 --> 00:35:53,469 And actually I will reach out directly 870 00:35:53,469 --> 00:35:55,580 to Major General Mark Schindler . The 871 00:35:55,580 --> 00:35:57,747 adjective general from pennsylvania to 872 00:35:57,747 --> 00:35:59,802 get the most current information and 873 00:35:59,802 --> 00:36:01,858 get that to your staff immediately . 874 00:36:01,858 --> 00:36:04,191 Obviously time is always of the essence . 875 00:36:04,191 --> 00:36:06,024 Yeah . I very much appreciate it 876 00:36:06,024 --> 00:36:08,247 because as you know , memories fade and 877 00:36:08,247 --> 00:36:10,136 people you know change places and 878 00:36:10,136 --> 00:36:12,302 they're no longer available for uh for 879 00:36:12,302 --> 00:36:14,413 people to ask questions of them . And 880 00:36:14,413 --> 00:36:16,691 so once the investigation is concluded , 881 00:36:16,691 --> 00:36:18,913 would you also please commit to me that 882 00:36:18,913 --> 00:36:18,230 you would review the report of 883 00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:20,890 investigation as well ? 884 00:36:22,930 --> 00:36:25,210 Thank you . And and my next question is 885 00:36:25,210 --> 00:36:27,099 also related and it's for general 886 00:36:27,099 --> 00:36:29,290 walker as well . Um I was very 887 00:36:29,290 --> 00:36:31,346 interested in your opening statement 888 00:36:31,346 --> 00:36:33,520 and your testimony and you spoke quite 889 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,798 extensively about the purpose of O . C . 890 00:36:35,798 --> 00:36:37,964 I . And the and the origins of O . C . 891 00:36:37,964 --> 00:36:40,020 I . And so to the extent that you're 892 00:36:40,020 --> 00:36:42,187 able to share . I'd like to understand 893 00:36:42,187 --> 00:36:44,409 a little bit more about OC Eyes process 894 00:36:44,409 --> 00:36:46,631 for initiating an investigation because 895 00:36:46,631 --> 00:36:48,310 again in august of 2020 . 896 00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:50,600 Representative Dean sent a request to 897 00:36:50,610 --> 00:36:52,721 go see eye to have them look into the 898 00:36:52,721 --> 00:36:54,777 complaints at Horsham and the OC . I 899 00:36:54,777 --> 00:36:56,999 responded and said that after reviewing 900 00:36:56,999 --> 00:36:59,110 the requests that they had determined 901 00:36:59,110 --> 00:37:01,166 that the most appropriate avenue for 902 00:37:01,166 --> 00:37:03,332 the investigation was the pennsylvania 903 00:37:03,332 --> 00:37:05,554 National Guard , even though there were 904 00:37:05,554 --> 00:37:07,666 very high ranking officers within the 905 00:37:07,666 --> 00:37:09,721 pennsylvania National Guard who were 906 00:37:09,721 --> 00:37:11,888 named in many of these complaints . So 907 00:37:11,888 --> 00:37:13,832 the denial from OC I didn't really 908 00:37:13,832 --> 00:37:15,832 offer us very much detail and I was 909 00:37:15,832 --> 00:37:17,943 hoping you might be able to offer any 910 00:37:17,943 --> 00:37:20,054 insights as to why Oc . I declined to 911 00:37:20,054 --> 00:37:22,166 take up the Horsham case . Well thank 912 00:37:22,166 --> 00:37:24,310 you congresswoman . And again , oh CI 913 00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:26,680 has a very limited portfolio . We deal 914 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,300 with sexual assault cases . Uh the 915 00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:32,189 information that as I know and of 916 00:37:32,189 --> 00:37:34,710 course I was not there . I did not read 917 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:37,950 the initial request but it's best I can 918 00:37:37,950 --> 00:37:40,370 tell . It would be a request that would 919 00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:42,270 not be within our ability to 920 00:37:42,270 --> 00:37:44,590 investigate because we only do sexual 921 00:37:44,590 --> 00:37:46,830 assault , the allegations that Horsham 922 00:37:46,830 --> 00:37:49,350 were more of the harassment type . And 923 00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:52,350 just uh to back up a little bit to your 924 00:37:52,350 --> 00:37:54,780 question about , oh Ci and how we 925 00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:57,840 intake and and kind of the the process 926 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,820 that was involved . We as I said , we 927 00:38:00,820 --> 00:38:02,987 only deal with sexual assault if there 928 00:38:02,987 --> 00:38:05,140 are other issues going on . And 929 00:38:05,140 --> 00:38:08,620 oftentimes there are other areas of 930 00:38:08,620 --> 00:38:12,370 misconduct happening . The states are 931 00:38:12,380 --> 00:38:14,290 often run road concurrent 932 00:38:14,290 --> 00:38:16,346 investigations with an O . C . I . A 933 00:38:16,346 --> 00:38:18,650 analyst . We are limited to just the 934 00:38:18,650 --> 00:38:20,817 sexual assault aspect if there's other 935 00:38:20,817 --> 00:38:23,360 aspects such as harassment that goes 936 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,360 into the process that's already 937 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,930 established that starts with in the 938 00:38:27,930 --> 00:38:30,440 States . And so I think there was some 939 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,570 confusion initially . Uh , oh CI is 940 00:38:33,570 --> 00:38:37,150 very limited at that time . Oh , see I 941 00:38:37,150 --> 00:38:39,060 was about to be broken off into a 942 00:38:39,060 --> 00:38:41,580 separate directive directorate . And 943 00:38:41,580 --> 00:38:43,802 one of the things that you see , I have 944 00:38:43,802 --> 00:38:45,950 been credited with were comprehensive 945 00:38:45,950 --> 00:38:48,006 assessments such as what happened in 946 00:38:48,006 --> 00:38:50,228 Wisconsin , which you may be aware of . 947 00:38:50,228 --> 00:38:52,180 And so if it's okay if I might 948 00:38:52,190 --> 00:38:54,246 interrupt because I know I have very 949 00:38:54,246 --> 00:38:56,412 limited time and I sort of anticipated 950 00:38:56,412 --> 00:38:59,170 that that might be um , what what what 951 00:38:59,170 --> 00:39:01,059 was the qualifier there ? And you 952 00:39:01,059 --> 00:39:03,226 mentioned in your remarks that that oh 953 00:39:03,226 --> 00:39:05,170 ci is not a criminal but rather an 954 00:39:05,170 --> 00:39:07,281 investigative group and you mentioned 955 00:39:07,281 --> 00:39:09,503 that it was only responsible for sexual 956 00:39:09,503 --> 00:39:11,559 assault rather than harassment . But 957 00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:13,781 interestingly enough , every time we've 958 00:39:13,781 --> 00:39:15,892 been talking about the issues of this 959 00:39:15,892 --> 00:39:17,837 hearing , we've we've talked about 960 00:39:17,837 --> 00:39:19,948 assault and harassment together . And 961 00:39:19,948 --> 00:39:19,790 so it seems as though there really is 962 00:39:19,790 --> 00:39:21,957 kind of a gap in coverage that's going 963 00:39:21,957 --> 00:39:24,320 on , possibly an OC eyes mandate . Uh , 964 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,320 and I'm wondering whether or not it 965 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,542 might make sense to investigate whether 966 00:39:28,542 --> 00:39:30,709 we should be broadening broadening the 967 00:39:30,709 --> 00:39:32,820 purview of OC I so that there also is 968 00:39:32,820 --> 00:39:34,598 that sort of sexual assault and 969 00:39:34,598 --> 00:39:36,709 harassment because it seems as though 970 00:39:36,709 --> 00:39:38,876 all of our training is encompassing of 971 00:39:38,876 --> 00:39:38,670 all of that . All of the case work 972 00:39:38,670 --> 00:39:40,837 tends to be encompassing of all that . 973 00:39:40,837 --> 00:39:42,948 And it just seems like that there may 974 00:39:42,948 --> 00:39:44,948 be a gap in coverage there . Well , 975 00:39:44,948 --> 00:39:46,837 congresswoman , it's not a gap in 976 00:39:46,837 --> 00:39:48,892 coverage . Historically , harassment 977 00:39:48,892 --> 00:39:50,892 and assault within the military had 978 00:39:50,892 --> 00:39:52,670 gone down two separate tracks , 979 00:39:52,670 --> 00:39:55,003 harassment was never a criminal offense , 980 00:39:55,003 --> 00:39:57,114 whereas assault was always a criminal 981 00:39:57,114 --> 00:39:59,114 offense . So over the years they've 982 00:39:59,114 --> 00:40:01,226 developed into separate tracks as you 983 00:40:01,226 --> 00:40:03,660 know that the active force under title 984 00:40:03,660 --> 00:40:05,827 10 , the U . C . M . J . Is undergoing 985 00:40:05,827 --> 00:40:08,270 changes that will make harassment 986 00:40:08,270 --> 00:40:10,630 probably a criminal criminal act as 987 00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:14,040 well . So the National Guard actually 988 00:40:14,740 --> 00:40:17,490 time has expired . I know I apologize 989 00:40:17,490 --> 00:40:19,712 madam chair and I will yield back at my 990 00:40:19,712 --> 00:40:21,879 time has expired and I look forward to 991 00:40:21,879 --> 00:40:23,990 continuing this conversation with you 992 00:40:23,990 --> 00:40:26,212 and thank you so much for the time . So 993 00:40:26,212 --> 00:40:26,000 brigadier general just for your 994 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,270 advocation um it was in the N . D . A . 995 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,790 It is now a an offense under the UcMJ 996 00:40:32,790 --> 00:40:35,900 a sexual harassment . Um The gentleman 997 00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:38,810 from texas is now recognized for five 998 00:40:38,810 --> 00:40:40,130 minutes . Mr Jackson , 999 00:40:42,810 --> 00:40:44,977 thank you . Thank you Chairwoman spear 1000 00:40:44,977 --> 00:40:47,032 and the ranking member Gallagher for 1001 00:40:47,032 --> 00:40:49,032 holding this hearing today . I also 1002 00:40:49,032 --> 00:40:48,670 want to thank general Wilkinson and 1003 00:40:48,670 --> 00:40:50,559 general walker for testifying . I 1004 00:40:50,559 --> 00:40:52,614 believe this is the first hearing in 1005 00:40:52,614 --> 00:40:54,503 the subcommittee since Chairwoman 1006 00:40:54,503 --> 00:40:54,280 announced her retirement . Want to 1007 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,113 extend a warm congratulations to 1008 00:40:56,113 --> 00:40:58,280 Chairwoman spear for her dedication to 1009 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,447 this subcommittee and wish her all the 1010 00:41:00,447 --> 00:41:02,613 best in her next endeavor . We're here 1011 00:41:02,613 --> 00:41:04,391 to have an important discussion 1012 00:41:04,391 --> 00:41:06,502 regarding the prevention and response 1013 00:41:06,502 --> 00:41:08,669 of sexual assault in the military . Uh 1014 00:41:08,669 --> 00:41:10,613 I have a bill , the service member 1015 00:41:10,613 --> 00:41:12,836 Safety and Security Improvement Act was 1016 00:41:12,836 --> 00:41:12,830 signed into law last month as part of 1017 00:41:12,830 --> 00:41:16,720 the Fy 22 . Nd a incidents of sexual 1018 00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:19,020 harassment are not necessarily isolated 1019 00:41:19,020 --> 00:41:21,242 incidents . If not addressed , they can 1020 00:41:21,242 --> 00:41:23,700 lead to other serious and sometimes 1021 00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:25,870 deadly outcomes . Sometimes start with 1022 00:41:25,870 --> 00:41:28,203 the service member who go going missing . 1023 00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:30,599 The the service member Safety and 1024 00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:32,543 Security Improvement Act will help 1025 00:41:32,543 --> 00:41:34,321 address this issue by requiring 1026 00:41:34,321 --> 00:41:36,377 military installations to review and 1027 00:41:36,377 --> 00:41:35,920 improve policies and procedures for 1028 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,920 reporting service members missing . 1029 00:41:38,170 --> 00:41:40,392 This includes partnering with local and 1030 00:41:40,392 --> 00:41:42,337 federal law enforcement to promote 1031 00:41:42,337 --> 00:41:44,226 information sharing to ensure all 1032 00:41:44,226 --> 00:41:46,448 persons and organizations on a military 1033 00:41:46,448 --> 00:41:48,281 installation are accounted for . 1034 00:41:48,281 --> 00:41:50,281 General Hokanson . One area where I 1035 00:41:50,281 --> 00:41:52,448 want to work with you is to find a way 1036 00:41:52,448 --> 00:41:54,781 to implement some of the best practices . 1037 00:41:54,781 --> 00:41:54,500 Some of these best practices for 1038 00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:56,444 information sharing with local and 1039 00:41:56,444 --> 00:41:58,222 federal law enforcement for the 1040 00:41:58,222 --> 00:42:00,167 National Guard . The N . D . A . A 1041 00:42:00,167 --> 00:42:02,278 required a report from the department 1042 00:42:02,278 --> 00:42:03,889 on the flexibility or on the 1043 00:42:03,889 --> 00:42:06,111 feasibility . Excuse me of implementing 1044 00:42:06,111 --> 00:42:05,880 this legislation with regards to 1045 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,130 facilities of the National Guard . 1046 00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:10,039 General Hawkinson . What are your 1047 00:42:10,039 --> 00:42:12,150 thoughts on implementing this type of 1048 00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:12,070 legislation with respect to the 1049 00:42:12,070 --> 00:42:14,181 National Guard And when do you expect 1050 00:42:14,181 --> 00:42:16,014 the sub that this committee will 1051 00:42:16,014 --> 00:42:18,800 receive this report ? That's right . I 1052 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,440 strongly support that any time any of 1053 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,329 our guardsmen , although you know 1054 00:42:23,329 --> 00:42:25,273 obviously we see them on our drill 1055 00:42:25,273 --> 00:42:27,107 weekend or an annual training or 1056 00:42:27,107 --> 00:42:29,273 additional training period Any time we 1057 00:42:29,273 --> 00:42:31,329 don't have accountability for any of 1058 00:42:31,329 --> 00:42:33,496 them . It is a significant concern for 1059 00:42:33,496 --> 00:42:35,718 us . So anything that we can do to have 1060 00:42:35,718 --> 00:42:38,080 resources available to track down or 1061 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,247 find out really the health and welfare 1062 00:42:40,247 --> 00:42:42,191 of these individuals as quickly as 1063 00:42:42,191 --> 00:42:44,191 possible is something that we would 1064 00:42:44,191 --> 00:42:46,500 absolutely support . Thank you sir . I 1065 00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:48,667 hope we hope we see the report on that 1066 00:42:48,667 --> 00:42:50,833 in the near future . I look forward to 1067 00:42:50,833 --> 00:42:53,000 working with you on this and with that 1068 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,167 madam Chair , I yield back . Gentleman 1069 00:42:55,167 --> 00:42:57,130 yields back the general woman From 1070 00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:00,290 Texas MS Escobar is recognized for five 1071 00:43:00,290 --> 00:43:02,490 minutes . Thank you madam Chair and 1072 00:43:02,490 --> 00:43:05,560 many thanks to our panelists here today 1073 00:43:05,570 --> 00:43:07,830 um to our panelists , I want to give 1074 00:43:07,830 --> 00:43:09,941 you some perspective on the questions 1075 00:43:09,941 --> 00:43:12,980 I'm about to be asking . I am the proud 1076 00:43:12,980 --> 00:43:15,760 representative for Fort Bliss texas 1077 00:43:15,770 --> 00:43:18,540 here in Congress and I am also the 1078 00:43:18,540 --> 00:43:21,070 proud representative of the safe and 1079 00:43:21,070 --> 00:43:24,240 secure community of el paso which is 1080 00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:27,480 right on the US Mexico border . And 1081 00:43:27,490 --> 00:43:29,546 this is the first hearing that we've 1082 00:43:29,546 --> 00:43:31,546 been able to have with the National 1083 00:43:31,546 --> 00:43:34,330 Guard since some really alarming 1084 00:43:34,330 --> 00:43:36,860 reports have been made public and I 1085 00:43:36,860 --> 00:43:39,800 know that that our subcommittee's focus 1086 00:43:39,810 --> 00:43:42,150 for the hearing today is around sexual 1087 00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:44,150 assault , sexual harassment and I'm 1088 00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:46,690 very proud of the work that we have 1089 00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:48,680 done under the chair , woman's 1090 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,600 leadership to uh place and 1091 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,780 prioritize the safety and 1092 00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:57,600 welfare of our service members , really 1093 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,010 making it paramount for this committee . 1094 00:44:00,190 --> 00:44:02,880 And it is with that same perspective in 1095 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,220 mind that I'd like to ask our National 1096 00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:07,880 Guard leadership , uh , some questions 1097 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,220 about this because I know we are all 1098 00:44:10,220 --> 00:44:13,660 committed to . Two are the readiness of 1099 00:44:13,660 --> 00:44:16,450 our service members . Um , there have 1100 00:44:16,450 --> 00:44:18,960 been some deeply alarming reports 1101 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,950 coming out of texas . We have 1102 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,680 a deployment of texas National 1103 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,010 Guard through uh , an operation called 1104 00:44:29,010 --> 00:44:32,190 Operation Lone Star headed by texas 1105 00:44:32,190 --> 00:44:34,930 Governor Greg Abbott . I'm hoping for a 1106 00:44:34,930 --> 00:44:36,930 separate hearing around some of the 1107 00:44:36,930 --> 00:44:39,220 really alarming reports about increased 1108 00:44:39,220 --> 00:44:41,610 suicides , um deplorable living 1109 00:44:41,610 --> 00:44:45,010 conditions , um , lack of of full pay , 1110 00:44:45,010 --> 00:44:48,670 etcetera . And it is my hope that this 1111 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,680 subcommittee and our committee as a 1112 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,190 whole approaches these issues in the 1113 00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:55,840 same bipartisan manner that we have 1114 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,062 approached sexual harassment and sexual 1115 00:44:58,062 --> 00:45:01,360 assault with that . Um General Hokanson , 1116 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,527 I'd like to ask you a couple questions 1117 00:45:03,527 --> 00:45:05,550 just to clarify . Can you please 1118 00:45:05,550 --> 00:45:07,660 describe the relationship the Bureau 1119 00:45:07,660 --> 00:45:09,771 and the National Guards of each state 1120 00:45:09,771 --> 00:45:11,680 have ? And in what ways does that 1121 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,790 relationship hinder the Bureau's 1122 00:45:13,790 --> 00:45:15,960 ability to exercise full oversight 1123 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,920 investigations and prosecutions . So 1124 00:45:19,930 --> 00:45:22,041 promise when uh , when we look at our 1125 00:45:22,041 --> 00:45:24,300 relationship . Um , so we work very 1126 00:45:24,300 --> 00:45:26,420 closely with all of the 54 and 1127 00:45:26,420 --> 00:45:28,642 communicate as I mentioned before , our 1128 00:45:28,642 --> 00:45:30,698 very regular basis to make sure that 1129 00:45:30,698 --> 00:45:32,864 they are in compliance with all of the 1130 00:45:32,864 --> 00:45:35,031 service requirements , both within the 1131 00:45:35,031 --> 00:45:36,920 Army and the Air Force . And when 1132 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,976 there's a gap , we try and fill that 1133 00:45:38,976 --> 00:45:40,976 through Chief National Guard Bureau 1134 00:45:40,976 --> 00:45:43,087 instructions are also policy . And so 1135 00:45:43,087 --> 00:45:45,142 when we look at the states almost as 1136 00:45:45,142 --> 00:45:46,809 subordinate wealth , they are 1137 00:45:46,809 --> 00:45:48,920 commanders of their National Guards , 1138 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,031 responsible for them . And what we do 1139 00:45:51,031 --> 00:45:53,142 is we stay in constant communications 1140 00:45:53,142 --> 00:45:55,364 to help identify any issues or concerns 1141 00:45:55,364 --> 00:45:57,476 they have and see if we can help them 1142 00:45:57,476 --> 00:45:59,587 address those . In addition , because 1143 00:45:59,587 --> 00:46:01,753 we work with all 50 for if we see best 1144 00:46:01,753 --> 00:46:03,753 practices in one state , we try and 1145 00:46:03,753 --> 00:46:05,420 share those across the entire 1146 00:46:05,420 --> 00:46:07,476 organization so that we can make the 1147 00:46:07,476 --> 00:46:09,420 organization better and learn from 1148 00:46:09,420 --> 00:46:11,540 others as we go forward . But 1149 00:46:11,550 --> 00:46:13,717 ultimately , we work with them to make 1150 00:46:13,717 --> 00:46:15,828 sure that they are in compliance with 1151 00:46:15,828 --> 00:46:17,939 everything that that needs to be done 1152 00:46:17,939 --> 00:46:20,050 with respect to the services and then 1153 00:46:20,050 --> 00:46:22,161 we assist them in any way that we can 1154 00:46:22,161 --> 00:46:24,217 on a literally a daily basis . Thank 1155 00:46:24,217 --> 00:46:26,272 you so much . General , the National 1156 00:46:26,272 --> 00:46:28,439 Guard troops deployed on Governor Greg 1157 00:46:28,439 --> 00:46:30,272 Abbott's Operation Lone Star are 1158 00:46:30,272 --> 00:46:32,383 operating primarily understate active 1159 00:46:32,383 --> 00:46:35,660 duty status . And while those 1160 00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:39,080 reports of what is known are really 1161 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,191 deeply alarming . I am also concerned 1162 00:46:41,191 --> 00:46:43,750 about what is not yet known what what 1163 00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:46,360 may not be public , including uh 1164 00:46:46,370 --> 00:46:48,537 concerns that I have around conditions 1165 00:46:48,537 --> 00:46:50,730 that might further sexual harassment 1166 00:46:50,730 --> 00:46:52,897 and sexual assault as well . Are there 1167 00:46:52,897 --> 00:46:55,008 mechanisms that the bureau can use to 1168 00:46:55,008 --> 00:46:57,980 conduct investigations , oversight and 1169 00:46:57,980 --> 00:47:01,510 prosecutions of these missions when our 1170 00:47:01,510 --> 00:47:05,140 service members have been subjected to 1171 00:47:05,150 --> 00:47:07,780 really alarming and shocking conditions 1172 00:47:07,780 --> 00:47:10,910 such as those under Operation Lone Star . 1173 00:47:12,380 --> 00:47:14,670 So congressman in this case , when we 1174 00:47:14,670 --> 00:47:16,837 hear reports like that , we take every 1175 00:47:16,837 --> 00:47:19,050 single one very seriously and we reach 1176 00:47:19,050 --> 00:47:21,470 out to the leadership within that state 1177 00:47:21,470 --> 00:47:24,540 to ask if they need help with anything 1178 00:47:24,550 --> 00:47:26,661 or where they're finding shortcomings 1179 00:47:26,980 --> 00:47:29,210 and we always try to do everything we 1180 00:47:29,210 --> 00:47:31,700 can to support them . Um specifically 1181 00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:33,811 to that though , I would like to hand 1182 00:47:33,811 --> 00:47:35,922 it over to general walker to add some 1183 00:47:35,922 --> 00:47:38,090 potential legal implications about on 1184 00:47:38,090 --> 00:47:41,610 what what they can do to help . Thank 1185 00:47:41,610 --> 00:47:44,920 you sir . And so this is one of those 1186 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,670 issues where I think the National Guard 1187 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,600 we have to be very specific in 1188 00:47:50,980 --> 00:47:53,147 obviously the status of each member is 1189 00:47:53,147 --> 00:47:55,840 important in how and when the National 1190 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,080 Guard intervenes and at what levels and 1191 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,460 and that I think is the threshold issue 1192 00:48:00,470 --> 00:48:02,790 that we run into every time . There's 1193 00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:05,720 an issue with guardsmen in in how in 1194 00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:08,290 what the bureau can do with respect to 1195 00:48:08,290 --> 00:48:10,690 sexual assault and sexual harassment . 1196 00:48:11,070 --> 00:48:14,250 We are constantly looking to inform the 1197 00:48:14,250 --> 00:48:17,840 states and inform leadership on those 1198 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,400 things that are specifically triggering 1199 00:48:20,410 --> 00:48:23,240 uh the environment which makes sexual 1200 00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:25,940 assaults most likely to happen and 1201 00:48:25,950 --> 00:48:29,110 through analytics and basic information 1202 00:48:29,110 --> 00:48:31,166 that we're gleaning from our reports 1203 00:48:31,166 --> 00:48:33,332 were actively passing that information 1204 00:48:33,332 --> 00:48:35,940 on to the Adjutants General such that 1205 00:48:35,940 --> 00:48:38,470 when we deploy , if that's a trigger we 1206 00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:40,414 can address those situations where 1207 00:48:40,414 --> 00:48:42,800 leadership can remove those things from 1208 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,522 the environment so that we can 1209 00:48:44,522 --> 00:48:46,522 hopefully reduce and mitigate those 1210 00:48:46,522 --> 00:48:48,411 factors that contribute to sexual 1211 00:48:48,411 --> 00:48:50,500 assault . So Every time we have an 1212 00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:53,720 incident now we're taking great pains 1213 00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:56,740 to to pull data and to analyze those 1214 00:48:56,740 --> 00:48:59,110 facts so that we can replicate best 1215 00:48:59,110 --> 00:49:02,190 practices across the 54 , particularly 1216 00:49:02,190 --> 00:49:04,190 in situations that are common to us 1217 00:49:04,190 --> 00:49:07,130 such as deployment . The 1218 00:49:07,140 --> 00:49:09,290 gentlewoman's time has expired . Can 1219 00:49:09,290 --> 00:49:11,234 you wrap up your comments please ? 1220 00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:15,726 General . My office will circle back 1221 00:49:15,726 --> 00:49:17,837 with you . I just I want to sound the 1222 00:49:17,837 --> 00:49:20,130 alarm madam Chair and to our panelists 1223 00:49:20,140 --> 00:49:22,307 and to my colleagues and it is my hope 1224 00:49:22,307 --> 00:49:24,473 that we can address all of this in the 1225 00:49:24,473 --> 00:49:26,710 same bipartisan spirit uh that we have 1226 00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:29,320 worked in uh in the past in our 1227 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,487 subcommittee . Thank you all so much . 1228 00:49:31,487 --> 00:49:33,487 I yield back . Gentleman's time has 1229 00:49:33,487 --> 00:49:35,709 expired . The gentlewoman from Michigan 1230 00:49:35,709 --> 00:49:37,542 MS McLean is recognized for five 1231 00:49:37,542 --> 00:49:39,709 minutes . Thank you madam Chairwoman . 1232 00:49:39,709 --> 00:49:41,764 Um I want to thank you all for being 1233 00:49:41,764 --> 00:49:43,487 here today as a member of this 1234 00:49:43,487 --> 00:49:45,709 committee who has a National Guard base 1235 00:49:45,709 --> 00:49:47,820 in their district . It really saddens 1236 00:49:47,820 --> 00:49:49,709 me that sexual assault is all too 1237 00:49:49,709 --> 00:49:52,910 common in our National Guard and I want 1238 00:49:52,910 --> 00:49:55,360 to assure all of you that and to all my 1239 00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,530 colleagues on this committee that I am 1240 00:49:57,530 --> 00:49:59,752 committed committed to rooting out this 1241 00:49:59,752 --> 00:50:01,974 this problem we have to address it . We 1242 00:50:01,974 --> 00:50:03,863 have to put systems in production 1243 00:50:03,863 --> 00:50:07,210 processes in place um to do better . Um 1244 00:50:07,220 --> 00:50:09,331 my question is this General Wilkinson 1245 00:50:09,331 --> 00:50:11,800 while I'm dedicated to ensuring our 1246 00:50:11,810 --> 00:50:13,754 National Guard provides a safe and 1247 00:50:13,754 --> 00:50:16,500 secure way for victims to come forward , 1248 00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:19,510 which is is critical so we can catch 1249 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,900 and prosecute the perpetrators of 1250 00:50:22,900 --> 00:50:24,844 sexual violence . The one the only 1251 00:50:24,844 --> 00:50:27,260 concern that I really have is is that 1252 00:50:27,260 --> 00:50:29,820 we created that , that we're not 1253 00:50:29,820 --> 00:50:32,470 creating a system that is guilty until 1254 00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:34,470 proven innocent . So I want to make 1255 00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:36,360 sure that you know , the pendulum 1256 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,660 doesn't swing too far the other way . 1257 00:50:39,670 --> 00:50:41,448 Um , and while I appreciate the 1258 00:50:41,448 --> 00:50:43,170 independent review committee's 1259 00:50:43,170 --> 00:50:45,114 recommendation for the guard , the 1260 00:50:45,114 --> 00:50:47,114 recommendation seemed to be heavily 1261 00:50:47,114 --> 00:50:49,281 focused on prevention . Um rather than 1262 00:50:49,281 --> 00:50:51,020 any for actual processing or 1263 00:50:51,020 --> 00:50:53,370 investigation of potential crimes and 1264 00:50:53,370 --> 00:50:55,800 there is a very important piece . 1265 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,800 Prevention Yes , is critical and is 1266 00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,022 extremely important but we also have to 1267 00:51:00,022 --> 00:51:01,810 have an actual process for 1268 00:51:01,810 --> 00:51:04,320 investigation . Can you explain to me 1269 00:51:04,330 --> 00:51:06,860 how the process for both the victim and 1270 00:51:06,860 --> 00:51:09,490 the accused will navigate through the 1271 00:51:09,490 --> 00:51:11,270 IRC is proposed . Systems 1272 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:17,050 congressman thank you and um are 1273 00:51:17,050 --> 00:51:19,106 process right now . So obviously the 1274 00:51:19,106 --> 00:51:21,490 default is immediately to go to local 1275 00:51:21,490 --> 00:51:23,820 law enforcement to determine whether or 1276 00:51:23,820 --> 00:51:25,764 not they will take the case to the 1277 00:51:25,764 --> 00:51:28,680 investigation or prosecute and once 1278 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,847 that is determined if it , if it stays 1279 00:51:30,847 --> 00:51:32,847 in local law enforcement , it stays 1280 00:51:32,847 --> 00:51:35,340 with them . Um if they for some reason 1281 00:51:35,340 --> 00:51:37,570 do not take the case , that's where we 1282 00:51:37,570 --> 00:51:40,340 provide an additional avenue for those 1283 00:51:40,340 --> 00:51:42,230 individuals to pursue through 1284 00:51:42,230 --> 00:51:44,286 administrative means through . Oh ci 1285 00:51:45,060 --> 00:51:47,070 and so when I look at the victim , 1286 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,816 obviously the first thing to do that 1287 00:51:49,816 --> 00:51:51,927 and I'll just take that from the role 1288 00:51:51,927 --> 00:51:54,038 of the commander Is to make sure that 1289 00:51:54,038 --> 00:51:56,204 they report this immediately within 24 1290 00:51:56,204 --> 00:51:58,260 hours and they get a victim advocate 1291 00:51:58,260 --> 00:52:01,040 for for the victim . And from there , 1292 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,610 the commander has various tools at his 1293 00:52:04,610 --> 00:52:06,900 or her disposal . A couple of those are 1294 00:52:06,910 --> 00:52:09,890 is to do an expedited transfer of the 1295 00:52:09,890 --> 00:52:12,060 member out of that organization . They 1296 00:52:12,060 --> 00:52:14,004 can also do a civilian or military 1297 00:52:14,004 --> 00:52:15,949 protective order and they can also 1298 00:52:15,949 --> 00:52:19,390 initiate a flag on the accused 1299 00:52:19,490 --> 00:52:21,601 personnel file just so that folks are 1300 00:52:21,601 --> 00:52:23,323 aware that there is an ongoing 1301 00:52:23,323 --> 00:52:25,600 investigation . Um but we're very clear 1302 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,822 that we want to make sure that everyone 1303 00:52:27,822 --> 00:52:29,878 is given due process throughout this 1304 00:52:29,878 --> 00:52:32,280 process . And um what I'd like to do 1305 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,502 now is is handed over to general walker 1306 00:52:34,502 --> 00:52:36,502 to talk about the specifics of that 1307 00:52:36,502 --> 00:52:38,447 because many of the times it rules 1308 00:52:38,447 --> 00:52:40,391 enter his purview from there . The 1309 00:52:40,391 --> 00:52:44,020 truck . Thank you sir . So again , the 1310 00:52:44,030 --> 00:52:46,310 National Guard without military 1311 00:52:46,310 --> 00:52:48,532 criminal investigative organizations to 1312 00:52:48,532 --> 00:52:51,070 initiate a criminal investigation . We 1313 00:52:51,070 --> 00:52:53,160 immediately refer that to local law 1314 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,880 enforcement after the local law 1315 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,102 enforcement investigation is complete . 1316 00:52:59,050 --> 00:53:01,410 And if it is appropriate we will 1317 00:53:01,410 --> 00:53:03,743 conduct an administrative investigation . 1318 00:53:03,743 --> 00:53:06,021 And I think it's important uh you know , 1319 00:53:06,021 --> 00:53:09,600 oftentimes we see in the media and and 1320 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,580 other accounts where people are not 1321 00:53:12,590 --> 00:53:14,780 happy with the results of an 1322 00:53:14,780 --> 00:53:17,120 administrative investigation because we 1323 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,140 have very limited remedies for criminal 1324 00:53:20,140 --> 00:53:23,180 activities . We can discharge a member , 1325 00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:25,440 but there is no incarceration , there's 1326 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,740 no registry as a offender , there's 1327 00:53:27,740 --> 00:53:29,518 none of the other institutional 1328 00:53:29,518 --> 00:53:31,296 controls that our society deems 1329 00:53:31,296 --> 00:53:34,560 important for crimes back up for one 1330 00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,560 second . Um , is there a show 1331 00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,671 when we turn it over to the local law 1332 00:53:40,671 --> 00:53:43,680 enforcement agencies ? There is a um , 1333 00:53:43,690 --> 00:53:45,801 I'm trying to think of the world word 1334 00:53:45,801 --> 00:53:48,310 and it's escaping me . There is a four 1335 00:53:48,310 --> 00:53:52,210 cause hearing correct . Uh , 1336 00:53:52,220 --> 00:53:53,950 well , it it depends on the 1337 00:53:53,950 --> 00:53:57,750 jurisdiction . And so the process again , 1338 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,390 is for unlike under 1339 00:54:01,390 --> 00:54:04,110 uniform process , under the UcMJ , a 1340 00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,342 each jurisdiction is going to determine 1341 00:54:06,342 --> 00:54:08,540 exactly how that investigation and 1342 00:54:08,540 --> 00:54:11,180 ultimate prosecution of that case . If 1343 00:54:11,180 --> 00:54:13,347 it makes it there will it will it will 1344 00:54:13,347 --> 00:54:15,960 happen . So we have no visibility on 1345 00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,960 what happens once we turn it over , 1346 00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,200 which is part of what is the intent on 1347 00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,422 active duty to take it out of the hands 1348 00:54:23,422 --> 00:54:25,756 of commanders to an unbiased . So , sir , 1349 00:54:25,756 --> 00:54:27,700 in the interest of time , it would 1350 00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:31,620 follow the the normal uh , chain . 1351 00:54:31,630 --> 00:54:34,330 The normal prosecution as a normal 1352 00:54:34,330 --> 00:54:36,663 civilian would because you're taking it . 1353 00:54:36,663 --> 00:54:38,950 Okay , Thank you sir , I have one 1354 00:54:38,950 --> 00:54:41,620 second . So , I appreciate your , uh , 1355 00:54:41,630 --> 00:54:43,470 your time and I yield back 1356 00:54:45,940 --> 00:54:47,718 The gentlewoman yields back the 1357 00:54:47,718 --> 00:54:49,940 gentlewoman from California . MS Jacobs 1358 00:54:49,940 --> 00:54:52,740 is recognized for five minutes . Well , 1359 00:54:52,740 --> 00:54:55,360 thank you , madam . Chair uh , and 1360 00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,416 thank you to the witnesses for being 1361 00:54:57,416 --> 00:55:00,290 here . Um General Hokanson , I was 1362 00:55:00,290 --> 00:55:02,346 pretty alarmed to hear that you have 1363 00:55:02,346 --> 00:55:04,457 not fully implemented even one of the 1364 00:55:04,457 --> 00:55:06,179 recommendations the IRC report 1365 00:55:06,179 --> 00:55:08,290 highlighted in light of that I wanted 1366 00:55:08,290 --> 00:55:10,610 to follow up on another report . A 2017 1367 00:55:10,610 --> 00:55:13,250 jail report that report recommended the 1368 00:55:13,250 --> 00:55:15,306 Chief of the National Guard Bureau , 1369 00:55:15,306 --> 00:55:17,139 reassessed the office of complex 1370 00:55:17,139 --> 00:55:18,917 administrative investigations , 1371 00:55:18,917 --> 00:55:21,028 timeliness and resources to determine 1372 00:55:21,028 --> 00:55:22,861 how to improve the timeliness of 1373 00:55:22,861 --> 00:55:24,306 processing sexual assault 1374 00:55:24,306 --> 00:55:26,528 investigations involving members of the 1375 00:55:26,528 --> 00:55:28,583 Army National Guard and identify the 1376 00:55:28,583 --> 00:55:30,361 resources needed to improve the 1377 00:55:30,361 --> 00:55:32,417 timeliness of these investigations . 1378 00:55:32,417 --> 00:55:32,390 Has such a deliberate and thorough 1379 00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:34,390 reassessment happened . And if so , 1380 00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:36,612 what has been done to improve the speed 1381 00:55:36,612 --> 00:55:38,834 of OcR investigations ? I bring this up 1382 00:55:38,834 --> 00:55:40,779 because my colleague MS . Cool han 1383 00:55:40,779 --> 00:55:43,001 brought up the importance of timeliness 1384 00:55:43,001 --> 00:55:45,112 about a specific case but it seems at 1385 00:55:45,112 --> 00:55:45,100 least according to G . A . O . This is 1386 00:55:45,100 --> 00:55:47,211 a broader issue that has plagued OC I 1387 00:55:47,211 --> 00:55:49,930 for some time , congresswoman , thank 1388 00:55:49,930 --> 00:55:53,100 you . And so when I became the Chief of 1389 00:55:53,100 --> 00:55:55,580 the National Guard Bureau in late 2021 1390 00:55:55,580 --> 00:55:57,830 of the first things I did was sit down 1391 00:55:57,830 --> 00:56:00,108 with our general counsel and look at O . 1392 00:56:00,108 --> 00:56:02,219 C . I . And this kind of goes back to 1393 00:56:02,219 --> 00:56:04,330 my opening statement that I like many 1394 00:56:04,330 --> 00:56:06,497 others was frustrated . We seem to put 1395 00:56:06,497 --> 00:56:08,552 a lot of time and effort into this , 1396 00:56:08,552 --> 00:56:10,663 but it never really seems to move the 1397 00:56:10,663 --> 00:56:12,886 needle in a positive direction . And so 1398 00:56:12,886 --> 00:56:15,108 when I spoke with the Adjutants General 1399 00:56:15,108 --> 00:56:15,050 and this really goes to them 1400 00:56:15,050 --> 00:56:17,217 understanding just how important of an 1401 00:56:17,217 --> 00:56:19,439 issue this is I told him I said look we 1402 00:56:19,439 --> 00:56:21,439 have a backlog . The way to address 1403 00:56:21,439 --> 00:56:23,050 that backlog is we need more 1404 00:56:23,050 --> 00:56:25,300 investigators so that we can get more 1405 00:56:25,300 --> 00:56:27,244 folks out to the field to complete 1406 00:56:27,244 --> 00:56:29,356 these investigations And working with 1407 00:56:29,356 --> 00:56:31,411 them . As General Walker mentioned I 1408 00:56:31,411 --> 00:56:33,356 was able to increase the number of 1409 00:56:33,356 --> 00:56:35,522 investigators by 60% . And that was to 1410 00:56:35,522 --> 00:56:37,522 the accidents . General identifying 1411 00:56:37,522 --> 00:56:39,689 folks within their formations that had 1412 00:56:39,689 --> 00:56:41,189 the capability to serve as 1413 00:56:41,189 --> 00:56:43,189 investigators . And that allowed us 1414 00:56:43,189 --> 00:56:45,820 really to get at this backlog because 1415 00:56:45,830 --> 00:56:47,941 it's really unacceptable for extended 1416 00:56:47,941 --> 00:56:50,580 timelines and part of that we were able 1417 00:56:50,580 --> 00:56:52,691 to resolve and general walker frankly 1418 00:56:52,691 --> 00:56:54,802 has done an admirable work related to 1419 00:56:54,802 --> 00:56:56,858 that . The other thing that we found 1420 00:56:56,858 --> 00:56:58,802 when I looked at O . C . I . Is is 1421 00:56:58,802 --> 00:57:01,024 under the General Counsel's office . It 1422 00:57:01,024 --> 00:57:03,136 was really a subordinate organization 1423 00:57:03,136 --> 00:57:05,247 and I felt one way to show the entire 1424 00:57:05,247 --> 00:57:07,413 National Guard just how important this 1425 00:57:07,413 --> 00:57:09,024 is is to create a standalone 1426 00:57:09,024 --> 00:57:11,191 organization and put a general officer 1427 00:57:11,191 --> 00:57:13,136 in charge . And thankfully we have 1428 00:57:13,136 --> 00:57:15,191 folks in our formations like general 1429 00:57:15,191 --> 00:57:17,358 walker who is also a federal judge who 1430 00:57:17,358 --> 00:57:19,580 really took that organization looked at 1431 00:57:19,580 --> 00:57:21,802 the entire process , streamlined it and 1432 00:57:21,802 --> 00:57:24,024 I was able to get his investigators not 1433 00:57:24,024 --> 00:57:26,191 just here in D . C . But regionally so 1434 00:57:26,191 --> 00:57:28,302 they could travel quicker to a lot of 1435 00:57:28,302 --> 00:57:30,580 these locations and I don't want to 1436 00:57:30,580 --> 00:57:32,802 steal jimmy walker thunder but chuck if 1437 00:57:32,802 --> 00:57:34,858 you'd like to add a lot of the great 1438 00:57:34,858 --> 00:57:36,969 work that you have done with the team 1439 00:57:36,969 --> 00:57:39,136 to help . Well thank you sir . And and 1440 00:57:39,136 --> 00:57:41,302 and really I think General Hokanson is 1441 00:57:41,302 --> 00:57:43,410 hit the essence attention to the the 1442 00:57:43,410 --> 00:57:45,580 problem is what General Hopkinson has 1443 00:57:45,580 --> 00:57:48,330 brought to the to the office of complex 1444 00:57:48,330 --> 00:57:50,560 investigations . And I will tell you 1445 00:57:50,570 --> 00:57:52,970 everyone talks of timeliness . But I 1446 00:57:52,970 --> 00:57:54,970 want us to think about the National 1447 00:57:54,970 --> 00:57:57,137 Guard and what we're doing . We've got 1448 00:57:57,137 --> 00:58:00,070 a force at 75-80% part time . We are a 1449 00:58:00,070 --> 00:58:02,690 full time investigative capability but 1450 00:58:02,690 --> 00:58:05,190 we also depend on the victim's council , 1451 00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,540 the defense counsel and the state to 1452 00:58:07,540 --> 00:58:09,762 have the witnesses available when we do 1453 00:58:09,762 --> 00:58:11,762 an investigation . Oftentimes We're 1454 00:58:11,762 --> 00:58:13,600 limited to drill periods what's 1455 00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,860 happening once a month . So for 1456 00:58:15,860 --> 00:58:18,340 National Guard three days is actually 1457 00:58:18,340 --> 00:58:20,720 45 days equivalent given the 1458 00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,831 availability of our witnesses and the 1459 00:58:22,831 --> 00:58:25,350 availability of us to get on site to do 1460 00:58:25,350 --> 00:58:27,840 investigations . So it's inherent in 1461 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,951 what we do that . Our timelines don't 1462 00:58:29,951 --> 00:58:32,300 match what you may see on active duty 1463 00:58:32,300 --> 00:58:34,690 or elsewhere in the military because of 1464 00:58:34,690 --> 00:58:36,690 the unique nature of National Guard 1465 00:58:36,690 --> 00:58:38,801 Service which we may not have control 1466 00:58:38,801 --> 00:58:40,940 over individuals that we need to 1467 00:58:40,940 --> 00:58:44,460 question until we show up for drill . 1468 00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:46,830 And so one of the factors that will 1469 00:58:46,830 --> 00:58:50,310 never be able to fully address is how 1470 00:58:50,310 --> 00:58:52,254 long it takes in some instances to 1471 00:58:52,254 --> 00:58:54,410 start an investigation . And 1472 00:58:54,410 --> 00:58:56,950 secondarily those resources , either 1473 00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,150 victims council or defense counsel are 1474 00:59:00,150 --> 00:59:01,928 limited as well . So we have to 1475 00:59:01,928 --> 00:59:04,150 coordinate all these other stakeholders 1476 00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:06,810 with each investigation . And so I have 1477 00:59:06,810 --> 00:59:09,032 to point that out that it's not as easy 1478 00:59:09,032 --> 00:59:11,199 as us just saying we're going to leave 1479 00:59:11,199 --> 00:59:13,310 tomorrow and do an investigation . It 1480 00:59:13,310 --> 00:59:15,690 is incredible what are investigators do 1481 00:59:15,690 --> 00:59:18,470 in order to coordinate these trips and 1482 00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:20,780 then oh by the way we're in a pandemic 1483 00:59:20,780 --> 00:59:24,260 and covid airline issues to get an 1484 00:59:24,260 --> 00:59:26,900 investigation to to go from start to 1485 00:59:26,900 --> 00:59:29,960 finish . It is a complicated process . 1486 00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,610 So we're doing everything we can to 1487 00:59:32,610 --> 00:59:34,610 remove those barriers through cross 1488 00:59:34,610 --> 00:59:37,370 cross functional communication . Uh and 1489 00:59:37,370 --> 00:59:39,592 we are seeing dramatic decreases in the 1490 00:59:39,592 --> 00:59:41,950 timeliness but we will never be as fast 1491 00:59:41,950 --> 00:59:44,117 as we want to be just by nature of the 1492 00:59:44,117 --> 00:59:46,228 National Guard and general walker . I 1493 00:59:46,228 --> 00:59:48,061 appreciate that . And in my five 1494 00:59:48,061 --> 00:59:50,283 seconds remaining I just want to say it 1495 00:59:50,283 --> 00:59:52,283 brings up an important point that I 1496 00:59:52,283 --> 00:59:54,339 don't believe National Guard service 1497 00:59:54,339 --> 00:59:56,450 members get the same level of care as 1498 00:59:56,450 --> 00:59:58,450 active duty service members in part 1499 00:59:58,450 --> 01:00:00,228 because of these limitations of 1500 01:00:00,228 --> 01:00:02,450 immediate transfer . Um So just want to 1501 01:00:02,450 --> 01:00:04,506 make sure we are giving our National 1502 01:00:04,506 --> 01:00:06,561 Guards members of the care that they 1503 01:00:06,561 --> 01:00:09,770 deserve and Madam Chair hold back . The 1504 01:00:09,780 --> 01:00:12,170 gentlewoman yields back . I see Mr 1505 01:00:12,170 --> 01:00:15,930 Fallon is somewhere . Um do you 1506 01:00:16,350 --> 01:00:19,070 you are next on the agenda if you are 1507 01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:21,800 inclined to ask questions you're 1508 01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,740 recognized . Thank you . Thank you so 1509 01:00:24,740 --> 01:00:26,730 much and very gracious of you . I 1510 01:00:26,730 --> 01:00:29,050 appreciate it . Um my question for 1511 01:00:29,050 --> 01:00:32,560 general Wilkinson , how do we recognize 1512 01:00:33,370 --> 01:00:35,890 the state's Code of Military Justice 1513 01:00:36,310 --> 01:00:37,699 with the U . C . M . J . 1514 01:00:40,310 --> 01:00:43,240 So congressman we look at that because 1515 01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,351 there are changes to the uniform code 1516 01:00:45,351 --> 01:00:47,630 of military justice . Um Each of the 1517 01:00:47,630 --> 01:00:49,463 states that have a state code of 1518 01:00:49,463 --> 01:00:51,590 military adjustments may or may not 1519 01:00:51,590 --> 01:00:54,030 make changes as quickly as those adjust . 1520 01:00:54,610 --> 01:00:57,460 And so we really rely on R . O . C . I . 1521 01:00:57,470 --> 01:01:00,120 As they go out to investigate to really 1522 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,620 look at the State Code of Military 1523 01:01:03,620 --> 01:01:06,170 Justice and how it applies . So if we 1524 01:01:06,170 --> 01:01:07,837 go back to the administrative 1525 01:01:07,837 --> 01:01:09,892 investigations there are some states 1526 01:01:09,892 --> 01:01:12,440 that will utilize that as the means to 1527 01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,280 start a potentially a court martial but 1528 01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,430 not all states are like that . And so 1529 01:01:17,430 --> 01:01:19,730 we really rely on on chuck and his team 1530 01:01:19,730 --> 01:01:21,563 when they go to a state to do an 1531 01:01:21,563 --> 01:01:23,786 investigation to make sure that they're 1532 01:01:23,786 --> 01:01:26,320 aware of that state specific code so 1533 01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,930 that they know what the uh the 1534 01:01:28,930 --> 01:01:30,930 leadership , what options that they 1535 01:01:30,930 --> 01:01:33,041 have once they receive the results of 1536 01:01:33,041 --> 01:01:35,020 that investigation , I don't know 1537 01:01:35,020 --> 01:01:37,830 anything . Yeah . I'm sorry . I'm sorry 1538 01:01:37,830 --> 01:01:39,663 for interrupting . Are there any 1539 01:01:39,663 --> 01:01:41,830 discrepancies which you think needs to 1540 01:01:41,830 --> 01:01:45,390 be addressed , congressman ? I'm 1541 01:01:45,390 --> 01:01:47,050 not sure . I can answer that 1542 01:01:47,050 --> 01:01:50,860 specifically because of the basically 1543 01:01:50,870 --> 01:01:53,092 the rate at which some of these changes 1544 01:01:53,092 --> 01:01:55,840 um for us if we have concerns and as 1545 01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:57,896 mentioned previously , if an article 1546 01:01:57,896 --> 01:02:00,090 comes up or there's an accusation ? We 1547 01:02:00,090 --> 01:02:01,868 try and reach out to that state 1548 01:02:01,868 --> 01:02:03,868 immediately to see , hey , is there 1549 01:02:03,868 --> 01:02:06,480 anything we can help any resources that 1550 01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,700 you need or guidance that that you're 1551 01:02:08,700 --> 01:02:11,550 lacking to help make sure we fill gaps 1552 01:02:11,550 --> 01:02:13,606 in any areas to make sure that we're 1553 01:02:13,606 --> 01:02:15,828 doing the right thing for our guardsmen 1554 01:02:15,828 --> 01:02:17,828 and women . Well , general , I have 1555 01:02:17,828 --> 01:02:19,994 another question , but before I get to 1556 01:02:19,994 --> 01:02:22,161 that , I just want to make sure I'd be 1557 01:02:22,161 --> 01:02:21,830 remiss if I didn't mention that . I 1558 01:02:21,830 --> 01:02:24,580 think that your leadership is really um , 1559 01:02:24,590 --> 01:02:27,610 helping dramatically address this this 1560 01:02:27,610 --> 01:02:29,221 problem . And it's very much 1561 01:02:29,221 --> 01:02:31,388 appreciated . And to what my colleague 1562 01:02:31,388 --> 01:02:33,910 just performing mentioned , we want to 1563 01:02:33,910 --> 01:02:35,910 ensure that our guard troops aren't 1564 01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:38,330 treated as second class soldiers in any 1565 01:02:38,330 --> 01:02:40,500 regard and we're , that's upon us . It 1566 01:02:40,500 --> 01:02:42,667 doesn't come from us to do what we can 1567 01:02:42,667 --> 01:02:44,889 from our level . That's why I supported 1568 01:02:44,889 --> 01:02:46,710 the equity in hazardous pay for 1569 01:02:46,710 --> 01:02:48,710 National Guard troops . But another 1570 01:02:48,710 --> 01:02:50,599 question real quickly , the sharp 1571 01:02:50,599 --> 01:02:52,710 program obviously as you know , as an 1572 01:02:52,710 --> 01:02:54,710 annual training requirement for the 1573 01:02:54,710 --> 01:02:56,821 National Guard soldiers , but with so 1574 01:02:56,821 --> 01:02:58,932 few drill weekends , how do we ensure 1575 01:02:58,932 --> 01:03:01,670 that this is a sub spent instead of 1576 01:03:01,670 --> 01:03:03,948 more of checking the box kind of thing . 1577 01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:07,711 So congressman , I thank you for that 1578 01:03:07,711 --> 01:03:09,933 question because one of the things that 1579 01:03:09,933 --> 01:03:12,156 we came up with with our our joint task 1580 01:03:12,156 --> 01:03:14,267 force that looked at this is a lot of 1581 01:03:14,267 --> 01:03:16,156 the training that they receive is 1582 01:03:16,156 --> 01:03:18,378 really focused on title 10 . But Almost 1583 01:03:18,378 --> 01:03:20,489 all of our work is done in a title 32 1584 01:03:20,489 --> 01:03:22,620 condition , that's where we get 1585 01:03:22,620 --> 01:03:24,509 involved . And so what we've been 1586 01:03:24,509 --> 01:03:27,600 trying to do is look at ways . And one 1587 01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:29,711 of the proposals is to create our own 1588 01:03:29,711 --> 01:03:31,711 course for the National Guard to be 1589 01:03:31,711 --> 01:03:33,767 taught at our Professional Education 1590 01:03:33,767 --> 01:03:35,711 Center in Arkansas and some of our 1591 01:03:35,711 --> 01:03:37,711 regional Training Institute . And I 1592 01:03:37,711 --> 01:03:39,656 actually yesterday saw the six day 1593 01:03:39,656 --> 01:03:41,920 program Under which they really want to 1594 01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,170 tailor that training so that it's , 1595 01:03:44,180 --> 01:03:46,470 it's universal for both army and air 1596 01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:48,970 guard , but really addresses the unique 1597 01:03:48,970 --> 01:03:51,250 title 32 characteristics of the 1598 01:03:51,250 --> 01:03:53,430 environment that we operate in to your 1599 01:03:53,430 --> 01:03:55,486 point to make sure that when they're 1600 01:03:55,486 --> 01:03:57,541 they're in those limited times their 1601 01:03:57,541 --> 01:03:59,430 soldiers and airmen that they get 1602 01:03:59,430 --> 01:04:01,597 talked specifically to the environment 1603 01:04:01,597 --> 01:04:03,652 that they're operating in general at 1604 01:04:03,652 --> 01:04:05,763 the time I ever made can give us some 1605 01:04:05,763 --> 01:04:07,874 examples of maybe some best practices 1606 01:04:07,874 --> 01:04:09,874 that you've seen from , some states 1607 01:04:09,874 --> 01:04:11,940 addressing the the sexual assault 1608 01:04:11,940 --> 01:04:15,880 problem . Yes , 1609 01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,180 congressman . And so when I look at a 1610 01:04:18,180 --> 01:04:21,150 recent , um , in actually an assistance 1611 01:04:21,150 --> 01:04:23,317 visit we gave to the , to the state of 1612 01:04:23,317 --> 01:04:25,990 Wisconsin . And so this was a result of 1613 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,222 issues that were identified there a few 1614 01:04:28,222 --> 01:04:30,278 years ago . And so one of the things 1615 01:04:30,278 --> 01:04:32,400 that we did is set up a really a 1616 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,870 roadmap in coordination with the state 1617 01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,047 on key indicators and things that they 1618 01:04:37,047 --> 01:04:39,213 think that they could do to get to the 1619 01:04:39,213 --> 01:04:41,430 point where they had really addressed 1620 01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,384 all of those . And these went from 1621 01:04:43,384 --> 01:04:45,162 looking at a risk assessment of 1622 01:04:45,162 --> 01:04:47,330 individual events . One of the things 1623 01:04:47,330 --> 01:04:49,690 that came up from another state as well 1624 01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,960 is really looking at a risk assessment 1625 01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,240 of anytime alcohol is at a unit 1626 01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,690 function . And are all the things in 1627 01:04:57,690 --> 01:04:59,990 place there to help identify and 1628 01:04:59,990 --> 01:05:02,920 mitigate the potential causes for an 1629 01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,160 environment where sexual assault or 1630 01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,090 sexual harassment may occur . We also 1631 01:05:08,090 --> 01:05:10,201 identified that there are some things 1632 01:05:10,201 --> 01:05:12,900 in the army with their youth um 1633 01:05:12,910 --> 01:05:15,760 indicators whereas in the Army National 1634 01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:18,038 Guard , but not the Air National Guard . 1635 01:05:18,038 --> 01:05:20,260 And so one of our proposals is to share 1636 01:05:20,260 --> 01:05:22,260 that with the Air National Guard as 1637 01:05:22,260 --> 01:05:24,316 well , because it really provides an 1638 01:05:24,316 --> 01:05:26,371 anonymous ability for individuals to 1639 01:05:26,371 --> 01:05:28,538 provide input and identify things that 1640 01:05:28,538 --> 01:05:30,704 they may see that may cause these risk 1641 01:05:30,704 --> 01:05:33,320 factors to be present . Thank you . 1642 01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,376 General Madam Jeremy . You're back . 1643 01:05:36,890 --> 01:05:39,090 The gentleman yields back to follow up 1644 01:05:39,100 --> 01:05:42,010 on Mr Fallon's question . 1645 01:05:42,690 --> 01:05:46,500 Um General Hokanson . The 1646 01:05:46,500 --> 01:05:49,920 Wisconsin National Guard had 33 sexual 1647 01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:53,020 assault cases . Those cases were 1648 01:05:53,030 --> 01:05:56,470 chosen not to be undertaken by the 1649 01:05:56,470 --> 01:06:00,390 local district attorney . Um 1650 01:06:00,570 --> 01:06:04,340 no action was taken and an 1651 01:06:04,350 --> 01:06:06,730 investigation within Wisconsin 1652 01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:11,150 found that the victims didn't 1653 01:06:11,150 --> 01:06:14,960 get any resources and Wisconsin has not 1654 01:06:14,970 --> 01:06:18,910 updated its state military law as 1655 01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:22,830 it was expected to do now . The 1656 01:06:22,830 --> 01:06:26,440 US Government provides $26 1657 01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,200 billion a year to National Guards 1658 01:06:29,210 --> 01:06:33,100 across this country . $26 billion . 1659 01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:36,040 My understanding is that your authority 1660 01:06:36,050 --> 01:06:39,690 is one of um encouraging cajoling . 1661 01:06:39,700 --> 01:06:43,620 Um Suddenly hoping that they 1662 01:06:43,620 --> 01:06:45,940 will do the right thing . But outside 1663 01:06:45,940 --> 01:06:49,040 of giving them money , We don't have 1664 01:06:49,050 --> 01:06:51,960 any hook to get them to do what they 1665 01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,590 should do . So in the case of Wisconsin 1666 01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:56,711 where they haven't even changed their 1667 01:06:56,711 --> 01:06:59,270 military code when they were required 1668 01:06:59,270 --> 01:07:01,980 to do so . And there are 33 cases over 1669 01:07:01,980 --> 01:07:03,980 the course of 5-6 years . Some very 1670 01:07:03,980 --> 01:07:07,200 current that were not pursued 1671 01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,830 and O . C . I . Has this kind 1672 01:07:11,830 --> 01:07:14,400 of bizarre function 1673 01:07:16,380 --> 01:07:19,200 and there is not accountability . 1674 01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,000 What do you what should we do ? 1675 01:07:24,980 --> 01:07:27,110 Doesn't sound like you have anything 1676 01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,210 but persuasion on your side . 1677 01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,930 At what point do we freeze the money or 1678 01:07:34,940 --> 01:07:37,910 at what point do we say ? Um you need 1679 01:07:37,910 --> 01:07:40,590 to follow the U . C . M . J . 1680 01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,960 Or you won't get the money secure 1681 01:07:45,970 --> 01:07:47,990 your spirit in this case . When you 1682 01:07:47,990 --> 01:07:50,560 look at Wisconsin and the accusations 1683 01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:52,590 that were made and the governor did 1684 01:07:52,590 --> 01:07:55,240 make leadership changes when these were 1685 01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:57,462 identified within their organizations . 1686 01:07:57,580 --> 01:08:00,070 And we provided an assistant team 1687 01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,920 assistance team for Wisconsin to really 1688 01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:04,864 take a look at every aspect of the 1689 01:08:04,864 --> 01:08:06,642 general . I'm asking you a very 1690 01:08:06,642 --> 01:08:09,930 specific question . Do you have any 1691 01:08:09,930 --> 01:08:10,790 power 1692 01:08:14,370 --> 01:08:16,370 Mr speaker ? I think I have all the 1693 01:08:16,370 --> 01:08:18,481 authorities . I need to work with the 1694 01:08:18,481 --> 01:08:20,537 states to make sure that they follow 1695 01:08:20,537 --> 01:08:24,480 the service guidance that . But if they 1696 01:08:24,480 --> 01:08:27,560 don't , it's up to the governor in a 1697 01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:29,671 state and in the state of Wisconsin . 1698 01:08:29,671 --> 01:08:31,780 But for the journalists who brought 1699 01:08:31,780 --> 01:08:33,780 these cases to the attention of the 1700 01:08:33,780 --> 01:08:35,780 public , I don't know that anything 1701 01:08:35,780 --> 01:08:37,891 would be done . And I think all of us 1702 01:08:37,891 --> 01:08:39,669 here want to make sure that our 1703 01:08:39,669 --> 01:08:43,320 National Guard service members have the 1704 01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:47,180 same protections under the law . So if 1705 01:08:47,190 --> 01:08:51,080 and they become federalized in 1706 01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:54,600 time of war or when needed . So 1707 01:08:55,270 --> 01:08:57,440 I really think that we have more work 1708 01:08:57,440 --> 01:09:00,590 to do here . Let me ask you about 1709 01:09:01,570 --> 01:09:05,500 the the issue with with alcohol . So 1710 01:09:05,870 --> 01:09:09,600 I guess there's no prohibition of 1711 01:09:10,270 --> 01:09:12,900 using alcohol on those 1712 01:09:13,770 --> 01:09:17,270 exercise weekends , is that right ? Um 1713 01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:19,391 Usually Ma'am , not during training , 1714 01:09:19,391 --> 01:09:21,558 these would be in unit functions after 1715 01:09:21,558 --> 01:09:25,490 hours . Alright , um how do you 1716 01:09:25,490 --> 01:09:28,370 ensure that each state 1717 01:09:28,380 --> 01:09:31,730 tag is properly investigating sexual 1718 01:09:31,730 --> 01:09:33,690 harassment and sexual assault . 1719 01:09:35,570 --> 01:09:37,570 So with respect to sexual assault , 1720 01:09:37,570 --> 01:09:39,990 ma'am that there , they would actually 1721 01:09:39,990 --> 01:09:42,046 not be able to do the investigations 1722 01:09:42,046 --> 01:09:44,157 because commanders are permitted from 1723 01:09:44,157 --> 01:09:46,323 using their resources to do that . And 1724 01:09:46,323 --> 01:09:48,546 so they are really reliant on local law 1725 01:09:48,546 --> 01:09:50,823 enforcement to do those investigations . 1726 01:09:51,070 --> 01:09:53,181 And as we mentioned before , if local 1727 01:09:53,181 --> 01:09:55,403 law enforcement decides for some reason 1728 01:09:55,403 --> 01:09:57,580 not to do that , then oh ci is the 1729 01:09:57,580 --> 01:10:00,810 administrative avenue that we have to 1730 01:10:00,810 --> 01:10:02,810 help support the states to do those 1731 01:10:02,810 --> 01:10:04,977 investigations . Yeah , but if the tag 1732 01:10:04,977 --> 01:10:06,921 does not refer it , it doesn't get 1733 01:10:06,921 --> 01:10:08,880 investigated , is that correct ? 1734 01:10:10,060 --> 01:10:12,500 Yes , ma'am . Alright . So there's a 1735 01:10:12,500 --> 01:10:16,110 huge problem here and in many respects 1736 01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,231 what's going on in the National Guard 1737 01:10:18,231 --> 01:10:20,700 is what went on in the military when um 1738 01:10:20,700 --> 01:10:23,070 it was up to the chain of command to 1739 01:10:23,070 --> 01:10:25,181 make a determination as to whether or 1740 01:10:25,181 --> 01:10:27,292 not to pursue a sexual assault case . 1741 01:10:27,292 --> 01:10:29,520 And we found out that for a number of 1742 01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,140 reasons they chose not to do that . And 1743 01:10:32,140 --> 01:10:36,090 a tag who is has a number of of sexual 1744 01:10:36,090 --> 01:10:39,170 assault cases that occur under their 1745 01:10:39,180 --> 01:10:42,790 command become loath to report them 1746 01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:46,230 or seek assistance of O Ci for fear 1747 01:10:46,230 --> 01:10:48,286 that it might reflect poorly on them 1748 01:10:48,286 --> 01:10:50,040 and sometimes they are the the 1749 01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:53,910 assaulters . So um I've 1750 01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,660 got some serious concerns . It's $26 1751 01:10:56,670 --> 01:10:59,080 billion dollars that we dug out every 1752 01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:01,880 year to the States 1753 01:11:02,860 --> 01:11:06,620 and we have no control , no authority 1754 01:11:07,060 --> 01:11:10,130 to protect those National Guard service 1755 01:11:10,130 --> 01:11:12,690 members if the state chooses not to , 1756 01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:16,780 I'll now um yield to mr Gallagher . He 1757 01:11:16,780 --> 01:11:19,000 asked further questions . No further 1758 01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:22,900 questions . Let's see 1759 01:11:22,900 --> 01:11:26,440 who is next . MS 1760 01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:28,850 Hoolahan is no longer here , Miss 1761 01:11:28,850 --> 01:11:32,340 escobar you're recognizing Thank you , 1762 01:11:32,340 --> 01:11:34,451 madam Chair . You know , I would just 1763 01:11:34,451 --> 01:11:36,507 I'd like to circle back with general 1764 01:11:36,507 --> 01:11:40,280 walker because General 1765 01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:43,480 Hawkinson had uh asked that general 1766 01:11:43,480 --> 01:11:46,170 walker respond to what legal 1767 01:11:46,180 --> 01:11:48,790 options um 1768 01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,700 the the National Guard Bureau would 1769 01:11:52,700 --> 01:11:55,890 have in the cases such as those I've 1770 01:11:55,890 --> 01:11:58,870 outlined under Operation Lone Star . 1771 01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:01,530 And those cases that the chair has 1772 01:12:01,530 --> 01:12:04,830 outlined also as an example if there is 1773 01:12:04,830 --> 01:12:08,790 a governor who continues to um 1774 01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:11,590 ignore the Health Safety and welfare of 1775 01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:15,290 the National Guard specifically um and 1776 01:12:15,300 --> 01:12:19,130 has not rectified the situation and I'm 1777 01:12:19,130 --> 01:12:21,100 talking about lots of different 1778 01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:23,400 egregious offenses that we've seen in 1779 01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:27,110 texas , what are the general walker , 1780 01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:30,470 what are the legal options available to 1781 01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:34,290 the National Guard Bureau ? Well , 1782 01:12:34,290 --> 01:12:36,550 congresswoman , let me start with kind 1783 01:12:36,550 --> 01:12:40,130 of addressing . Mhm . What happens when 1784 01:12:40,130 --> 01:12:43,580 a sexual assault is reported and 1785 01:12:43,590 --> 01:12:45,812 general walker ? Let me interrupt you . 1786 01:12:45,812 --> 01:12:47,980 My apologies . But I I'm not talking 1787 01:12:47,980 --> 01:12:49,647 about sexual assault , sexual 1788 01:12:49,647 --> 01:12:51,870 harassment in particular . This is a 1789 01:12:51,870 --> 01:12:53,570 much more general question . 1790 01:12:57,550 --> 01:12:59,970 So , congresswoman to address that 1791 01:12:59,970 --> 01:13:02,080 general question would definitely 1792 01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:04,510 exceed the scope of why I'm here today . 1793 01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:08,340 I can tell you that in order 1794 01:13:08,340 --> 01:13:11,010 for the National Guard to exert control 1795 01:13:11,020 --> 01:13:13,240 over the state in a non federalized 1796 01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:16,150 status is an ongoing issue of debate . 1797 01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:18,900 And as you've seen in other areas that 1798 01:13:18,900 --> 01:13:21,340 are , that are going on right now , 1799 01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:23,017 it's the subject of of actual 1800 01:13:23,017 --> 01:13:25,080 litigation as to what the National 1801 01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:27,800 Guards authorities are . Uh you know , 1802 01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:31,270 and the reality is that we work with 1803 01:13:31,270 --> 01:13:33,930 the States wherever we can to address 1804 01:13:33,940 --> 01:13:35,940 issues when they are brought to our 1805 01:13:35,940 --> 01:13:37,996 attention and from a , you know , as 1806 01:13:37,996 --> 01:13:40,051 someone who came from the field . So 1807 01:13:40,051 --> 01:13:42,280 that's a nuance . I've only been at 1808 01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:44,447 Guard Bureau for a year in this role , 1809 01:13:44,447 --> 01:13:47,180 but I was a state guardsmen in 1810 01:13:47,180 --> 01:13:49,180 leadership in the state . And I can 1811 01:13:49,180 --> 01:13:53,080 tell you that the intent always is to 1812 01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:55,510 comply with the service directives and 1813 01:13:55,510 --> 01:13:57,621 to work with National Guard Bureau in 1814 01:13:57,621 --> 01:14:01,440 the role of assistance in order to meet 1815 01:14:01,440 --> 01:14:03,880 those requirements , uh the actual 1816 01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,200 legalities of what we can do . Those 1817 01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:09,780 are questions well above uh my scope 1818 01:14:09,780 --> 01:14:11,870 here . But I can tell you that the 1819 01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:13,824 issues when they're brought to the 1820 01:14:13,824 --> 01:14:16,080 attention . We sit down and as I've 1821 01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:18,080 seen when I was on the other side , 1822 01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:20,080 Guard Bureau , General Hospital and 1823 01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:22,320 staff work with the States to find 1824 01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,750 solutions to these hard problems . And 1825 01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:28,590 again everything that we address starts 1826 01:14:28,590 --> 01:14:31,480 with uh an impartial investigation from 1827 01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:34,100 my standpoint . Inno ci if we're 1828 01:14:34,100 --> 01:14:36,322 bringing it back down to sexual assault 1829 01:14:36,440 --> 01:14:38,662 that we provide that information to the 1830 01:14:38,662 --> 01:14:40,884 States , they take it and then they use 1831 01:14:40,884 --> 01:14:43,107 it in order to make themselves better . 1832 01:14:43,107 --> 01:14:45,470 So I know we have problems . I know 1833 01:14:45,470 --> 01:14:47,303 there are issues but the working 1834 01:14:47,303 --> 01:14:49,359 relationship between Guard Bureau in 1835 01:14:49,359 --> 01:14:51,320 the States it's quite positive and 1836 01:14:51,330 --> 01:14:53,497 under General Hawkins its leadership . 1837 01:14:53,497 --> 01:14:55,497 I think it's the best . It's been a 1838 01:14:55,497 --> 01:14:57,719 long time . So these problems there are 1839 01:14:57,719 --> 01:14:59,941 solutions and it's called collaboration 1840 01:14:59,941 --> 01:15:01,719 and working through some of the 1841 01:15:01,719 --> 01:15:03,608 problems as far as authorities by 1842 01:15:03,608 --> 01:15:05,774 cooperating with each other because we 1843 01:15:05,774 --> 01:15:07,886 all have the same good intent . Thank 1844 01:15:07,886 --> 01:15:09,880 you . General walker , thank you . 1845 01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,102 General walker I have one last question 1846 01:15:12,102 --> 01:15:14,240 for you before my time expires is the 1847 01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:16,460 office of complex investigations , 1848 01:15:16,470 --> 01:15:18,192 aware of the conditions of the 1849 01:15:18,192 --> 01:15:20,137 guardsmen deployed at our southern 1850 01:15:20,137 --> 01:15:23,250 border . Well , congresswoman , that 1851 01:15:23,250 --> 01:15:25,370 would totally be beyond our scope . 1852 01:15:25,370 --> 01:15:28,210 Again , we only come into play when an 1853 01:15:28,210 --> 01:15:29,877 accident . General request an 1854 01:15:29,877 --> 01:15:32,700 investigation , we don't actively seek 1855 01:15:32,710 --> 01:15:35,250 uh information outside of that role of 1856 01:15:35,250 --> 01:15:38,280 investigating specific cases . Okay , 1857 01:15:38,290 --> 01:15:40,290 thank you , Madam . Chair , I yield 1858 01:15:40,290 --> 01:15:42,270 back gentlewoman yields back . Are 1859 01:15:42,270 --> 01:15:45,570 there any further questions ? See none . 1860 01:15:45,570 --> 01:15:48,370 We thank General Hopkinson and 1861 01:15:48,990 --> 01:15:52,150 Brigadier general walker for your time 1862 01:15:52,150 --> 01:15:54,317 and attention today . Um , there are a 1863 01:15:54,317 --> 01:15:56,660 number of requests we've made . We look 1864 01:15:56,660 --> 01:15:58,790 forward to receiving your answers in 1865 01:15:58,790 --> 01:16:01,480 due time . Thank you . Committee is 1866 01:16:01,480 --> 01:16:02,480 adjourned . 1867 01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:27,640 Thank you . 1868 01:16:37,940 --> 01:16:38,170 No .