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called the hearing to order . Good 

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morning . The committee meets today to 

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receive testimony from General Kenneth 

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McKenzie , Commander of the United 

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States Central Command and General 

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Stephen Townsend Commander of the 

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United States africa command . Thank 

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you both for your service and I'm 

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grateful to the men and women serving 

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under your command . And I understand 

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this will likely be the last appearance 

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before this committee for both of you 

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and I thank you for your dedicated 

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diligent service to the nation and to 

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the men and women you've led over all 

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these years and thanks also to your 

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families who stood by you and sustained 

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you throughout this distinguished 

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career . Thank you . A Central Command 

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remains one of our most challenging 

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theaters . One of its many 

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responsibilities , centcom's top 

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priority is deterring the Iranian 

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regime's destructive and destabilizing 

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activities without undue provocation . 

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This is a complicated and urgent 

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mission . Just this weekend , Iran 

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claimed responsibility for a missile 

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strike near the american consulate in 

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Israel Iraq . This right comes on the 

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heels of escalating malign behavior by 

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Iran and its proxies who continue to 

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mount drone and missile attacks in the 

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region , including against military 

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bases in Iraq and Syria . Saudi Arabia 

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and the United arab Emirates on the 

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nuclear front . In the five years since 

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then , President trump pulled out of 

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the joint comprehensive plan of action 

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or J . C . P . O . A . Iran has made 

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key advances . It has discrete 

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decreased breakout time to several 

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weeks from a year under the agreement 

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it has increased uranium enrichment to 

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60% Instead of just under 4% allowed 

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under the agreement , Iran has hardened 

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its infrastructure and replace damaged 

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equipment with more advanced models . 

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And while negotiations to return Iran 

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to J . C . P O A R in the final stages 

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Russia's invasion of Ukraine has 

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introduced new complications . General 

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Mackenzie . Given these current 

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dynamics , I would like your thoughts 

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on how best to respond to Iranian 

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malign behavior in the region , 

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including collaborating with allies and 

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partners to counter drone and missile 

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attacks while preserving space to 

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return to the J . C . P . O . A Last 

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August marked the end of our 20 year 

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military mission in Afghanistan . 

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Despite transitioning all forces from 

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Afghanistan , the biden administration 

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has maintained its commitment to 

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ensuring that Afghanistan cannot be 

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used as a base for IsIS K al Qaeda and 

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other terrorist groups to conduct 

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attacks against the United States or 

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its allies as such . We have assumed an 

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over the horizon posture to counter 

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integrates such stress and I would ask 

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for an update on our capabilities and 

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whether additional regional agreements 

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have been reached . To ensure we have a 

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robust counterterrorism architecture to 

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address the threats from these 

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terrorist groups . Africom presents a 

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similarly complex Array of 

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responsibilities . The security 

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situation in East Africa has been on a 

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downward trajectory . Following the 

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previous administration decision to 

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withdraw the majority of us military 

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personnel from Somalia in November 2000 

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Excuse Me December 2020 . Since then , 

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U . S . Forces have been conducting 

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periodic engagements to training and 

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advised Somali partners . However , as 

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you note in your testimony , general 

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Townsend us and partner efforts disrupt 

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and degrade the most dangerous violent 

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extremist organizations have not 

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achieved the success we need . The 

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biden administration is taking a 

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comprehensive look at our strategy in 

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Somalia . I hope you will share your 

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views on the current security situation 

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as well as the status of our engagement 

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with Somalia partners . The security 

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situation in West Africa is also 

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increasingly fragile . Over the past 

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two years , extremist operations have 

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expanded across the shallow hell 

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including pushing down into the 

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littoral states in the gulf of guinea . 

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Political unrest . And chad has led to 

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the departure of all non essential U . 

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S . Personnel and high profile attacks 

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against civilian and military targets 

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in mali burkina , Faso and have 

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increased . These extremist groups are 

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not currently capable of carrying out 

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attacks outside the region , but 

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several have professed their intent to 

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do so . Given these challenges , 

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General Townsend I would like to know 

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what we can feasibly accomplish with 

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partners security forces and how 

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sustainable our posture is in such a 

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politically fractured environment . 

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Finally , both centcom and africom play 

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important roles in our long term 

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strategic competition with china and 

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Russia in the Middle East and Central 

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Asia Russia continues to leverage 

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hybrid warfare capabilities to expand 

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its own influence and stymie Western 

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security interests . China has also 

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increased its presence in the region 

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including by deepening economic and 

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security ties with Iran and on the 

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African continent , both Russia and 

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china are looking to expand their 

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security and economic investments and 

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may seek to leverage such access to 

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undermining us influence in critical 

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regions . During today's hearing , I 

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hope you will discuss your efforts to 

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engage with partners and the ways in 

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which the United States can best 

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leverage its competitive advantages to 

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maintain key relationships . Thank you 

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again to our witnesses . I look forward 

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to your testimonies as a reminder for 

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my colleagues , there will be a closed 

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session immediately following this 

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hearing in room S . V . C . To 17 . Now , 

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let me welcome back to the ranking 

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member and recognize the ranking member . 

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Thank you . Thank you Mr Chairman and 

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uh join you in welcoming our witnesses 

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and thank them for their decades of 

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service I think particularly with Mhm . 

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That's it didn't give the 

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order of that . But anyway , it's 

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appreciate the time that we've worked 

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together and in the short 

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time remaining . For for certainly some 

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of them , I see three challenges in 

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centcom Iran's terrorist proxies acting 

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more aggressively are partners 

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increasingly doubt America's 

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resolved and Russia and china trying to 

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fill that void . These challenges are a 

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direct result . In my opinion of the 

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President biden's misguided policies 

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even downgraded support for it to our 

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partners against Iran and its 

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proxies be reversed it . President 

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trump's terrorist designation of the of 

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the Houthis and he offered 

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Iran massive sanctions relief 

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To rejoin the failed 

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2015 Iran deal . 

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Even as Iran increases its aggressive , 

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its aggression against us . Iran is the 

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foremost threat in the region yet our 

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partners see the administration's 

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appeasement of Iran and ask themselves , 

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are we really on our own is America 

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abandoning us last december's 

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disastrous draw down from the 

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Afghanistan which culminated in the 

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killing of 13 service members 

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only reinforce these questions . We 

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also face significant challenges in 

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Africa , including the growing presence 

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and capability of the jihad groups 

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across the continent . China and Russia 

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are exploiting Africa . 2nd established 

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our our 

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partners project their 

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military power in the expand the 

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influence at our expense . I've always 

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viewed africa as critical to our 

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nation's security , which is why I 

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pushed for the creation of Africom that 

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was back in and two night in 

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2007 and it's 

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it's right now more of a concern than 

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it was at that time . General Townsend . 

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I was speaking more about this issue of 

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the issue of Western Sahara during my 

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questions but I'm pleased the secretary 

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provided guidance to assess alternative 

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locations and hosts for 

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dod exercises in africa , including the 

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annual African lion exercise . This 

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will be crucial to ensuring we 

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grow better relationships in africa and 

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help reverse the tide of our strategic 

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competition with china and Russia . 

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Thank you . Mr . Chairman thank you 

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very much . Uh Senator Inhofe uh , let 

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me now recognize General Mackenzie of 

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his statement . General thank you sir . 

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Chairman Reed ranking member in hough . 

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Ladies and gentlemen , the committee , 

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thank you for allowing me the 

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opportunity to testify for the final 

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time Regarding us Central Command's 

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posture in an area of responsibility 

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that encompasses 21 nations and 600 

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million people . And it's at the 

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strategic nexus of the world's most 

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important corridors of trade . Much has 

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transpired since I last delivered my 

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annual posture testimony , most notably 

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the conclusion of our military campaign 

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in Afghanistan and Russia's recent 

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invasion of Ukraine . America's 

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interest in the central region and the 

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challenges we confront their have 

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proven remarkably resilient . Centcom's 

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mission to direct and enable military 

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operations and activities with allies 

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and partners to increase regional 

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stability in support of enduring US 

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interests is essentially unchanged from 

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the day of the commands founding the 

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primary threats to that security and 

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stability are also very familiar . 

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Centcom was established nearly 40 years 

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ago to counter the malign influence of 

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a revolutionary regime that had seized 

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power in Tehran and to compete with a 

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great power that had in spite of 

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international condemnation , invaded 

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the sovereign state of Afghanistan and 

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imposed a puppet regime Today . Iran is 

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no less of a threat to American 

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interests or the stability of the 

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region than it was in 1979 . To the 

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contrary , the threat posed by Iran is 

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graver than ever . Russia's invasion of 

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Ukraine moreover has violently 

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demonstrated its willful regard for 

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international norms . Just as we have 

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seen through Russia's actions in Syria 

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and elsewhere . In fact anywhere , it 

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sees an opportunity to diminish 

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confidence in America's leadership In a 

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more measured fashion . China is also 

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vying for increased influence at 

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American expense in a region that 

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depends upon for over 40% of its fossil 

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fuels . Meanwhile , violent extremist 

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organizations or V . O . S in the 

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Centcom area , continue to pose a 

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credible threat to the homeland in some , 

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the central region remains today , a 

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vital and volatile arena for strategic 

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competition and the decisive theater in 

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the campaign against the Eos , the 

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campaign to defeat the so called 

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Islamic state in Iraq and Syria has 

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entered a new phase . As of one january 

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of this year , Iraq has assumed sole 

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responsibility for counter ISIS combat 

281
00:11:19,460 --> 00:11:22,700
operations on its own soil in Syria , 

282
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:24,877
centcom and its partners are degrading 

283
00:11:24,877 --> 00:11:27,280
ISIS ability to regenerate by improving 

284
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,224
the security of the facilities for 

285
00:11:29,224 --> 00:11:31,336
detained ISIS fighters as well as the 

286
00:11:31,336 --> 00:11:33,447
displaced persons camps , I . D . P . 

287
00:11:33,447 --> 00:11:35,650
Camps where their families reside more 

288
00:11:35,650 --> 00:11:37,872
than half of this population comes from 

289
00:11:37,872 --> 00:11:39,928
other countries . And addressing the 

290
00:11:39,928 --> 00:11:41,928
threat of ISIS in Northeast . Syria 

291
00:11:41,928 --> 00:11:44,150
ultimately will require these countries 

292
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:46,094
to reclaim and repatriate whatever 

293
00:11:46,094 --> 00:11:48,039
citizens of theirs remain in these 

294
00:11:48,039 --> 00:11:50,150
prisons and camps , ending one of the 

295
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:52,261
world's worst humanitarian crises and 

296
00:11:52,261 --> 00:11:54,261
depriving ISIS of what currently is 

297
00:11:54,261 --> 00:11:56,261
fertile soil for indoctrination and 

298
00:11:56,261 --> 00:11:58,372
spreading terror in Afghanistan . Our 

299
00:11:58,372 --> 00:12:00,317
campaign against Al Qaeda and Isis 

300
00:12:00,317 --> 00:12:02,539
Khorasan has also entered a new phase . 

301
00:12:02,539 --> 00:12:04,539
We are now conducting this campaign 

302
00:12:04,539 --> 00:12:06,650
from bases over the horizon . As I've 

303
00:12:06,650 --> 00:12:08,706
said , this is difficult . It is not 

304
00:12:08,706 --> 00:12:10,928
impossible . I should add today that we 

305
00:12:10,928 --> 00:12:13,150
will be able to do this only so long as 

306
00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:15,317
centcom has the requisite resources to 

307
00:12:15,317 --> 00:12:17,261
find fix and finish threats to the 

308
00:12:17,261 --> 00:12:19,483
homeland . Before those threats develop 

309
00:12:19,483 --> 00:12:21,428
the capability to conduct external 

310
00:12:21,428 --> 00:12:23,539
operations . I'm talking specifically 

311
00:12:23,539 --> 00:12:25,650
about SRS sets and strike platforms . 

312
00:12:25,650 --> 00:12:27,539
Centcom has the tools it needs to 

313
00:12:27,539 --> 00:12:29,706
perform this mission . But the margins 

314
00:12:29,706 --> 00:12:31,817
are thin and the risk will increase . 

315
00:12:31,817 --> 00:12:34,039
Should resources diminish , I'd like to 

316
00:12:34,039 --> 00:12:36,261
specifically address our posture in the 

317
00:12:36,261 --> 00:12:38,317
Middle East here , Iran continues to 

318
00:12:38,317 --> 00:12:40,039
pose the greatest threat to US 

319
00:12:40,039 --> 00:12:39,760
interests and the security of the 

320
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,871
region as a whole through its proxies 

321
00:12:41,871 --> 00:12:43,730
and clients . Iran has fomented 

322
00:12:43,730 --> 00:12:46,140
conflict in an arc tracing from Yemen 

323
00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:48,206
through the Arabian peninsula across 

324
00:12:48,206 --> 00:12:50,428
Iraq and Syria and Lebanon . And to the 

325
00:12:50,428 --> 00:12:52,570
very borders of Israel Saudi Arabia 

326
00:12:52,580 --> 00:12:54,747
endures regular attacks on the Houthis 

327
00:12:54,747 --> 00:12:56,691
who will some of the most advanced 

328
00:12:56,691 --> 00:12:58,636
unmanned aerial systems and cruise 

329
00:12:58,636 --> 00:13:00,691
missiles in the region , courtesy of 

330
00:13:00,691 --> 00:13:02,802
the Iranians . Recently , the Houthis 

331
00:13:02,802 --> 00:13:05,024
expanded these attacks to include urban 

332
00:13:05,024 --> 00:13:07,247
centers and bases with US forces in the 

333
00:13:07,247 --> 00:13:09,191
United Arab Emirates . Tehran also 

334
00:13:09,191 --> 00:13:11,302
enables it's aligned militias in Iraq 

335
00:13:11,302 --> 00:13:13,469
and Syria to carry on a persistent low 

336
00:13:13,469 --> 00:13:15,469
level campaign of indirect fire and 

337
00:13:15,469 --> 00:13:17,850
unmanned aerial system attacks against 

338
00:13:17,850 --> 00:13:20,240
US and coalition forces hoping to drive 

339
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,018
us from the region of late this 

340
00:13:22,018 --> 00:13:24,018
campaign has been relatively calm , 

341
00:13:24,018 --> 00:13:25,851
restrained but Iran only loosely 

342
00:13:25,851 --> 00:13:27,796
controls the militias that conduct 

343
00:13:27,796 --> 00:13:30,129
these attacks . And as recently as 2020 , 

344
00:13:30,129 --> 00:13:32,184
Iran demonstrated its willingness to 

345
00:13:32,184 --> 00:13:34,240
target US forces directly . With his 

346
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,573
highly capable ballistic missile forces , 

347
00:13:36,573 --> 00:13:38,573
Iran's ballistic missile forces can 

348
00:13:38,573 --> 00:13:40,573
constitute an exigent threat to the 

349
00:13:40,573 --> 00:13:42,796
security of every state in the region . 

350
00:13:42,796 --> 00:13:44,684
Among them are most important and 

351
00:13:44,684 --> 00:13:46,740
enduring partners . They continue to 

352
00:13:46,740 --> 00:13:48,962
look to the United States for assurance 

353
00:13:48,962 --> 00:13:51,129
that we the historic partner of choice 

354
00:13:51,129 --> 00:13:50,950
in the region will remain a reliable 

355
00:13:50,950 --> 00:13:53,240
one . China and Russia are also 

356
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,240
watching closely for any sign that 

357
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,407
America's commitment to the collective 

358
00:13:57,407 --> 00:13:59,573
security of the region is wavering and 

359
00:13:59,573 --> 00:14:01,407
they are poised to capitalize on 

360
00:14:01,407 --> 00:14:03,240
whatever opportunities emerge in 

361
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,296
closing . Let me thank you again for 

362
00:14:05,296 --> 00:14:07,462
this opportunity to testify . I'd like 

363
00:14:07,462 --> 00:14:09,351
to thank the soldiers , sailors , 

364
00:14:09,351 --> 00:14:11,518
marines , airmen , coast guardsmen and 

365
00:14:11,518 --> 00:14:13,184
guardians who have served and 

366
00:14:13,184 --> 00:14:15,351
sacrificed in the centcom kor . It has 

367
00:14:15,351 --> 00:14:15,320
been the greatest honor of my life to 

368
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,487
serve as their commander . Thank you . 

369
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,151
Thank you very much . I'm a Kennedy . 

370
00:14:20,151 --> 00:14:23,740
General Townsend please . Chairman 

371
00:14:23,740 --> 00:14:25,740
Reed . Ranking member in hough and 

372
00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:28,018
distinguished members of the committee . 

373
00:14:28,018 --> 00:14:30,129
Good morning . Thank you for inviting 

374
00:14:30,129 --> 00:14:32,296
me to appear today even as the eyes of 

375
00:14:32,296 --> 00:14:34,184
the world are focused on Russia's 

376
00:14:34,184 --> 00:14:36,296
lawless attack on Ukraine . An unjust 

377
00:14:36,296 --> 00:14:39,690
war which impacts Africa as well for 

378
00:14:39,690 --> 00:14:41,857
nearly three years . It's been a great 

379
00:14:41,857 --> 00:14:44,079
privilege the privilege of my career to 

380
00:14:44,079 --> 00:14:46,246
represent the dedicated members of U . 

381
00:14:46,246 --> 00:14:48,301
S . Africa . Command . Thank you for 

382
00:14:48,301 --> 00:14:50,820
your steadfast support for them and for 

383
00:14:50,820 --> 00:14:53,810
our mission . I'm here this morning 

384
00:14:53,810 --> 00:14:55,754
with my battle buddy and command . 

385
00:14:55,754 --> 00:14:57,866
Senior enlisted leader Sergeant Major 

386
00:14:57,866 --> 00:14:59,699
Richard thresher and my friend , 

387
00:14:59,699 --> 00:15:01,921
general frank McKenzie . As we make our 

388
00:15:01,921 --> 00:15:03,866
final appearances before you . Our 

389
00:15:03,866 --> 00:15:05,980
joint testimony highlights continued 

390
00:15:05,980 --> 00:15:07,910
and pressing challenges and 

391
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:10,180
opportunities faced by our respective 

392
00:15:10,180 --> 00:15:11,550
commands and our nation 

393
00:15:14,340 --> 00:15:16,673
together with our interagency teammates , 

394
00:15:16,673 --> 00:15:18,820
us Africom protects and advances us 

395
00:15:18,820 --> 00:15:21,150
strategic interests , prevents 

396
00:15:21,150 --> 00:15:23,630
strategic distraction and preserves 

397
00:15:23,630 --> 00:15:26,990
America's options , all in concert with 

398
00:15:26,990 --> 00:15:30,720
our allies and partners As Africans . 

399
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,887
Fifth commander , I have come to learn 

400
00:15:32,887 --> 00:15:35,650
five truths about Africa . First , 

401
00:15:36,340 --> 00:15:38,650
America cannot ignore Africa 

402
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,260
Africa's challenges , opportunities and 

403
00:15:43,260 --> 00:15:45,960
security interests are inseparable from 

404
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,080
our own weak or poor governance 

405
00:15:49,090 --> 00:15:52,400
conflict and climate change stress the 

406
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,520
stability of many African nations which 

407
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,780
will in turn impact us security and 

408
00:15:58,780 --> 00:16:02,440
prosperity . Second , our competitors 

409
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,150
clearly see Africa's rich potential . 

410
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,862
Russia and china . Both seek to convert 

411
00:16:08,862 --> 00:16:12,160
soft and hard power investments and the 

412
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,700
political influence , strategic access 

413
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,850
and military advantage . China's 

414
00:16:18,850 --> 00:16:20,900
economic and diplomatic engagements 

415
00:16:20,910 --> 00:16:24,200
allow it to buttress autocracies and 

416
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,860
change international norms in a patient 

417
00:16:26,860 --> 00:16:29,860
effort to claim their second continent , 

418
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,151
Russia's Stokes conflict , pursuing a 

419
00:16:33,151 --> 00:16:35,260
faded aspiration to imperial power 

420
00:16:36,540 --> 00:16:38,762
across the continent , mercenaries from 

421
00:16:38,762 --> 00:16:42,180
the Kremlin's Wagner group offer a one 

422
00:16:42,180 --> 00:16:46,160
shop stop for regime protection , 

423
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,190
resource exploitation and horrific 

424
00:16:49,190 --> 00:16:52,170
violence against Africans . Just as we 

425
00:16:52,170 --> 00:16:55,780
see in Ukraine today . 3rd , 

426
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,140
deadly terrorism has metastasized to 

427
00:16:58,140 --> 00:17:01,100
Africa . Al Qaeda's Al Shabaab in East 

428
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:04,030
Africa and ISIS and Al Qaeda groups in 

429
00:17:04,030 --> 00:17:06,870
West Africa and elsewhere are among the 

430
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:09,960
world's fastest growing , wealthiest 

431
00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:12,700
and deadliest terrorist groups and 

432
00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:14,840
remain grave and growing threats that 

433
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,260
aspire to kill americans both there and 

434
00:17:18,260 --> 00:17:21,760
in our homeland . Fourth , a battle 

435
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:23,927
between democracy and authoritarianism 

436
00:17:23,927 --> 00:17:27,510
is raging across Africa despite a 

437
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:29,770
recent surge in democratic backsliding 

438
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,940
our values , our democracy and our 

439
00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:35,920
willingness to work together with 

440
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,940
African partners creates a huge demand 

441
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:41,360
for US engagement and partnership . 

442
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,400
Fifth in Africa , a few troops and a 

443
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,670
few bucks still goes a long way 

444
00:17:49,940 --> 00:17:51,996
modest and predictable investments , 

445
00:17:51,996 --> 00:17:54,040
yield outsized returns for us and 

446
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,820
African security interests as an 

447
00:17:56,820 --> 00:17:58,910
economy of force and posture limited 

448
00:17:58,910 --> 00:18:02,260
theater Africom employees . Just point 

449
00:18:02,740 --> 00:18:05,960
3% of diodes , operating budget 

450
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,460
and manpower , modest investments today 

451
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,320
can yield a continent of partners . 

452
00:18:13,330 --> 00:18:17,220
Tomorrow we are most effective when we 

453
00:18:17,220 --> 00:18:20,410
synchronize diplomacy , development and 

454
00:18:20,410 --> 00:18:22,540
defense . So we are grateful for your 

455
00:18:22,540 --> 00:18:24,870
continued leadership and backing to 

456
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:26,814
help field our whole of government 

457
00:18:26,814 --> 00:18:29,800
leaders by confirming ambassadors and 

458
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,078
funding the State Department and U . S . 

459
00:18:32,078 --> 00:18:35,020
A . I . D . Thanks to the authorities 

460
00:18:35,020 --> 00:18:37,690
and resources you provide and for your 

461
00:18:37,690 --> 00:18:39,801
continued interest and support in the 

462
00:18:39,801 --> 00:18:42,140
capabilities that africom requires To 

463
00:18:42,140 --> 00:18:45,310
accomplish our mission . In summary US 

464
00:18:45,310 --> 00:18:47,700
Africom remains cheap insurance for 

465
00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:50,490
America's security . Thank you and I 

466
00:18:50,490 --> 00:18:52,712
look forward to your questions . Well , 

467
00:18:52,712 --> 00:18:54,823
thank you very much . Cheryl Townsend 

468
00:18:54,823 --> 00:18:57,790
General Mackenzie . Do you assess that 

469
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,690
successfully concluding a nuclear 

470
00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:05,380
deal with Iran will provide 

471
00:19:05,390 --> 00:19:07,900
additional stability in the region in 

472
00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:09,400
particular with respect to 

473
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,567
proliferation of nuclear weapons , not 

474
00:19:11,567 --> 00:19:13,733
just in Iran but in other states . And 

475
00:19:13,733 --> 00:19:15,844
also give to the United States and to 

476
00:19:15,844 --> 00:19:18,920
the West essentially almost daily 

477
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,980
insights into the nuclear posture of 

478
00:19:20,980 --> 00:19:24,960
Iran . Chairman of a 

479
00:19:24,970 --> 00:19:27,137
primary objective of our policy in the 

480
00:19:27,137 --> 00:19:29,137
region is for Iran not to possess a 

481
00:19:29,137 --> 00:19:31,248
nuclear weapon . I think the best and 

482
00:19:31,248 --> 00:19:33,137
most effective way to get to that 

483
00:19:33,137 --> 00:19:32,800
position is through a negotiated 

484
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,050
agreement which which I fully support 

485
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,696
and I think that's probably the best 

486
00:19:38,696 --> 00:19:40,918
way to actually get to that and then be 

487
00:19:40,918 --> 00:19:42,751
able to talk about other Iranian 

488
00:19:42,751 --> 00:19:44,640
activities in the region that are 

489
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,807
equally threatening to states that are 

490
00:19:46,807 --> 00:19:48,862
non nuclear in character . Thank you 

491
00:19:48,862 --> 00:19:50,862
very much , sir . General 1000 . Uh 

492
00:19:50,862 --> 00:19:52,973
what's your operational assessment of 

493
00:19:52,973 --> 00:19:55,084
the removing the majority for U . S . 

494
00:19:55,084 --> 00:19:57,820
Forces out of Somalia to kenya and 

495
00:19:57,820 --> 00:20:00,140
Djibouti and would have been the 

496
00:20:00,140 --> 00:20:01,670
impacts on our partners 

497
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,590
chairman . My view is that 

498
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,020
um our periodic engagement 

499
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,951
also referred to as commuting to work 

500
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,490
has caused new challenges 

501
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,790
and risks for our troops . I believe my 

502
00:20:23,790 --> 00:20:27,740
assessment is that it is not 

503
00:20:27,740 --> 00:20:30,750
effective , it's not efficient and it 

504
00:20:30,750 --> 00:20:33,360
puts our troops at greater risk . Okay . 

505
00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:37,910
And General Mackenzie , The MQ 

506
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,690
nine strike on 29 , 2021 

507
00:20:42,140 --> 00:20:44,950
was a mm hmm , 

508
00:20:45,540 --> 00:20:49,090
complicated and difficult 

509
00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:51,050
situation , including civilian 

510
00:20:51,050 --> 00:20:54,850
casualties . Ah you're centcom did a 

511
00:20:54,850 --> 00:20:58,160
report but that report was reviewed by 

512
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,840
the Air Force Inspector General General 

513
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,540
side And he indicated that assigning 

514
00:21:04,540 --> 00:21:07,630
the 156 to the same organization that 

515
00:21:07,630 --> 00:21:09,570
conducted the strike and further 

516
00:21:09,570 --> 00:21:11,348
assigning it to individual that 

517
00:21:11,348 --> 00:21:13,292
conducted this casually assessment 

518
00:21:13,292 --> 00:21:16,220
report And didn't recommend a 15-6 was 

519
00:21:16,220 --> 00:21:18,660
less than optimal real conflicts of 

520
00:21:18,660 --> 00:21:20,560
interest or simply perceptions of 

521
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,282
conflicts of interest were too 

522
00:21:22,282 --> 00:21:24,700
significant , conducting the 15-6 and 

523
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:27,900
4-5 days as directed was too rushed and 

524
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:29,780
didn't allow sufficient time to 

525
00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:31,940
comprehensively assess the facts . Do 

526
00:21:31,940 --> 00:21:34,270
you believe I concur with that 

527
00:21:34,270 --> 00:21:37,380
conclusion , Chairman , I concur with 

528
00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:39,547
that , include that . Concur with that 

529
00:21:39,547 --> 00:21:41,547
conclusion . And what steps are you 

530
00:21:41,547 --> 00:21:45,310
taking to uh correct the situation 

531
00:21:45,470 --> 00:21:47,192
in terms of standard operating 

532
00:21:47,192 --> 00:21:49,470
procedures for centcom Chairman . Since 

533
00:21:49,470 --> 00:21:52,020
that time we've enacted 10 specific 

534
00:21:52,020 --> 00:21:54,390
things that affect the way we the way 

535
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:56,557
we conduct strike operations , the way 

536
00:21:56,557 --> 00:21:59,370
we have oversight of strike operations . 

537
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,289
The way we investigate the strike 

538
00:22:01,289 --> 00:22:03,289
operations rather than go through a 

539
00:22:03,289 --> 00:22:05,344
list of all . I might just I'll call 

540
00:22:05,344 --> 00:22:07,289
out three very quickly . The first 

541
00:22:07,289 --> 00:22:06,880
thing we've done is we have 

542
00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:09,540
reinvigorated and re institutionalized 

543
00:22:09,540 --> 00:22:12,290
the idea of a red cell process within 

544
00:22:12,290 --> 00:22:14,457
that within each strike cell . The red 

545
00:22:14,457 --> 00:22:16,068
Cell prevents the problem of 

546
00:22:16,068 --> 00:22:17,846
confirmation bias which is when 

547
00:22:17,846 --> 00:22:20,012
operators sometimes under the pressure 

548
00:22:20,012 --> 00:22:22,234
of what they believe they believe to be 

549
00:22:22,234 --> 00:22:24,890
and probably is a mortal threat uh 

550
00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:27,067
seized on a course of action and don't 

551
00:22:27,067 --> 00:22:28,678
properly evaluate all of the 

552
00:22:28,678 --> 00:22:30,789
possibilities , other possibilities . 

553
00:22:30,789 --> 00:22:32,956
That's that's the single that's one at 

554
00:22:32,956 --> 00:22:34,789
the same time . I have upped the 

555
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:37,011
reporting of this . So these things are 

556
00:22:37,011 --> 00:22:39,178
brought to senior leadership much more 

557
00:22:39,178 --> 00:22:38,870
quickly . So we have an opportunity to 

558
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:40,870
have a good view on what's going on 

559
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:42,592
inside the entire system and I 

560
00:22:42,592 --> 00:22:44,592
particularly acknowledge the issues 

561
00:22:44,592 --> 00:22:46,703
about who's investigating , who . You 

562
00:22:46,703 --> 00:22:48,870
cannot investigate yourself there even 

563
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:50,926
if you do it right , there's still a 

564
00:22:50,926 --> 00:22:53,148
perception there that we need to take a 

565
00:22:53,148 --> 00:22:55,481
look at . We're taking that on directly . 

566
00:22:55,481 --> 00:22:55,330
So a number of things within central 

567
00:22:55,330 --> 00:22:57,441
command , we are changing . I believe 

568
00:22:57,441 --> 00:22:59,552
in all these cases it's the commander 

569
00:22:59,552 --> 00:23:01,441
at each level who needs to be the 

570
00:23:01,441 --> 00:23:03,552
responsible officer and you've got to 

571
00:23:03,552 --> 00:23:05,441
get that . You've got to get your 

572
00:23:05,441 --> 00:23:07,608
commanders directly involved in that . 

573
00:23:07,608 --> 00:23:06,810
And I believe we're on the path of 

574
00:23:06,810 --> 00:23:09,140
doing that . Thank you very much . Sir . 

575
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:11,350
General Townsend , you indicated in 

576
00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:14,170
your uh testimony that efforts in 

577
00:23:14,170 --> 00:23:17,140
africom like every major combatant 

578
00:23:17,140 --> 00:23:18,807
command have to be a whole of 

579
00:23:18,807 --> 00:23:21,750
government . Uh but Africa seems to be 

580
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:25,740
even a a much more significant case 

581
00:23:25,740 --> 00:23:28,160
where without State department support 

582
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,220
and the support uh other departments 

583
00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:34,410
that your mission is not as effective . 

584
00:23:34,420 --> 00:23:35,960
Can you elaborate a bit ? 

585
00:23:38,140 --> 00:23:40,362
Thanks Chairman . I think it's not only 

586
00:23:40,362 --> 00:23:42,362
not as effective . I think it's not 

587
00:23:42,362 --> 00:23:45,610
possible for anyone arm of diplomacy , 

588
00:23:45,610 --> 00:23:47,520
development or defense to succeed 

589
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,409
without the other , especially in 

590
00:23:49,409 --> 00:23:52,970
Africa . Um the economic challenges , 

591
00:23:52,970 --> 00:23:55,081
the political challenges and security 

592
00:23:55,081 --> 00:23:58,200
challenges are so great that we can 

593
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,640
only make headway together and that's 

594
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,807
particularly important because we have 

595
00:24:02,807 --> 00:24:06,730
such modest investments , their modest 

596
00:24:06,730 --> 00:24:08,952
resources focused on the continent . So 

597
00:24:08,952 --> 00:24:11,174
therefore we've got all rode together . 

598
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,462
Thank you very much , gentlemen , thank 

599
00:24:13,462 --> 00:24:15,684
you for not only your testimony but for 

600
00:24:15,684 --> 00:24:17,962
your distinguished service . Thank you . 

601
00:24:17,962 --> 00:24:21,350
Center in hold please the 

602
00:24:21,740 --> 00:24:24,780
Thank you Mr Chairman General Townsend . 

603
00:24:24,780 --> 00:24:27,370
As I said in my opening statement , I I 

604
00:24:27,380 --> 00:24:29,640
want to talk more about the plight of 

605
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,500
the people of Western Sahara . Many of 

606
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:34,910
my colleagues may not be familiar with 

607
00:24:34,910 --> 00:24:37,021
what they have been going through out 

608
00:24:37,021 --> 00:24:39,210
there , but it's nothing short of a 

609
00:24:39,210 --> 00:24:42,230
tragedy . The fate of the Sahara 

610
00:24:43,140 --> 00:24:45,780
people has been in limbo since Western 

611
00:24:45,780 --> 00:24:48,820
Sarah was de colonized in the United 

612
00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:51,170
Nations adopted the resolution calling 

613
00:24:51,170 --> 00:24:54,450
for a referendum on self determination 

614
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,870
In 1966 . That was 1966 . More 

615
00:24:58,870 --> 00:25:01,440
than five decades later , no referendum 

616
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,920
has been held and their destiny has 

617
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,260
been subjected to broken promise after 

618
00:25:06,290 --> 00:25:09,450
broken promise by the Moroccan 

619
00:25:09,460 --> 00:25:12,760
government . Some of the administration 

620
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,180
believed Morocco is now serious about 

621
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:17,260
negotiating a mutually acceptable 

622
00:25:17,260 --> 00:25:20,170
resolution in Western Sahara after 

623
00:25:20,170 --> 00:25:22,760
blocking it for all those years . And I 

624
00:25:23,140 --> 00:25:25,196
I couldn't disagree more . Nothing . 

625
00:25:25,340 --> 00:25:29,010
See I've seen from Morocco makes me 

626
00:25:29,010 --> 00:25:30,843
think that they're serious about 

627
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,207
throughout the resolution . And that's 

628
00:25:33,207 --> 00:25:35,373
why I'm pleased that the Secretary has 

629
00:25:35,373 --> 00:25:37,900
directed you to look at alternative 

630
00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:40,570
locations for D . O . D exercises in 

631
00:25:40,570 --> 00:25:44,200
africa like african lion . And 

632
00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:48,020
in the coming years . I have more than 

633
00:25:48,030 --> 00:25:50,040
that we want to say about Western 

634
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,480
Sahara , but we're pressed for time . 

635
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,740
So I'll submit that in writing . 

636
00:25:56,140 --> 00:25:59,940
General Townsend . General Townsend , I 

637
00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:02,190
want to turn to Somalia . As you know , 

638
00:26:02,190 --> 00:26:04,190
I opposed the last administration's 

639
00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:06,610
decision to pull nearly all of our 

640
00:26:06,610 --> 00:26:08,840
troops out of Somalia and move them to 

641
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,270
Djibouti and kenya and pursue and over 

642
00:26:12,270 --> 00:26:15,670
the horizon . Counterterrorism strategy , 

643
00:26:16,140 --> 00:26:19,040
it increases risk and decreases our 

644
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,640
effectiveness . Were we're seeing this 

645
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,850
play out on the ground in Somalia as 

646
00:26:23,850 --> 00:26:27,180
things get worse and Shabaab gains 

647
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:30,560
strength . General Townsend , you've 

648
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,960
called the Al Shabaab are primary 

649
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,820
enemy in Somalia . Your quote was the 

650
00:26:37,820 --> 00:26:40,910
largest and most kinetically active Al 

651
00:26:40,910 --> 00:26:43,990
Qaeda network in the world . I have two 

652
00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:46,960
questions . General Townsend , have you 

653
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,016
submitted a request to your chain of 

654
00:26:49,016 --> 00:26:52,850
command to put dod forces back in in 

655
00:26:52,850 --> 00:26:56,500
Somalia on a full time basis ? And if 

656
00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:59,100
the answer is yes , then when did you 

657
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:01,870
submit the request ? And have you 

658
00:27:01,870 --> 00:27:04,450
gotten any response yet from that 

659
00:27:04,450 --> 00:27:05,060
request ? 

660
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,950
Thanks frank and member . Um all the 

661
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,960
characterizations you just relayed 

662
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,200
their about Somalia and the threat from 

663
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,950
Al Shabaab are , are correct . Um Mhm 

664
00:27:20,540 --> 00:27:23,050
respectfully senator . I have submitted 

665
00:27:23,050 --> 00:27:26,090
advice to my chain of command and my 

666
00:27:26,090 --> 00:27:28,760
chain of command is still considering 

667
00:27:28,770 --> 00:27:31,890
that advice and uh I'd like to give 

668
00:27:31,890 --> 00:27:35,640
them um the space to make that decision 

669
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,990
and I can go into it in a bit more 

670
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:40,430
detail in closed session . All right , 

671
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,551
thank you . Thank you very much . And 

672
00:27:42,551 --> 00:27:45,340
uh General McKenzie , I don't really 

673
00:27:45,340 --> 00:27:48,450
have any further questions but I do 

674
00:27:48,450 --> 00:27:50,561
want to comment that it's hard for me 

675
00:27:50,561 --> 00:27:52,940
to believe that I I can see now why 

676
00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:55,162
we're not smiling and you are smiling . 

677
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,740
Apparently it's going to be going to be 

678
00:27:57,740 --> 00:27:59,960
I think in two more weeks it will be 

679
00:28:00,340 --> 00:28:03,020
bailing out of here and I wish you the 

680
00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:06,540
best and for your retirement . All 

681
00:28:06,540 --> 00:28:09,590
right , great . Thank you . Mr Chairman 

682
00:28:09,710 --> 00:28:11,654
thank you Senator Inhofe . Senator 

683
00:28:11,654 --> 00:28:13,599
Gillibrand please . Thank you . Mr 

684
00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:15,710
Chairman General Mackenzie . Um thank 

685
00:28:15,710 --> 00:28:17,543
you for your testimony . How has 

686
00:28:17,543 --> 00:28:19,920
Israel's integration into centcom zeo 

687
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,580
are improved coordination among us 

688
00:28:22,580 --> 00:28:24,660
regional partners particularly as it 

689
00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:26,850
relates to countering Iran in the 

690
00:28:26,850 --> 00:28:28,990
Middle East and supporting over the 

691
00:28:28,990 --> 00:28:31,212
horizon counterterrorism capabilities . 

692
00:28:32,340 --> 00:28:34,507
Senator , the entry of Israel into the 

693
00:28:34,507 --> 00:28:36,229
A . O . R . Has given us great 

694
00:28:36,229 --> 00:28:38,396
opportunities particularly in the area 

695
00:28:38,396 --> 00:28:40,618
of integrated air and missile defense , 

696
00:28:40,618 --> 00:28:40,610
which I think is one of the most 

697
00:28:40,610 --> 00:28:42,777
pressing issues that all of the states 

698
00:28:42,777 --> 00:28:44,943
in the region confront when they think 

699
00:28:44,943 --> 00:28:47,070
about Iran . And so I think of Israel 

700
00:28:47,070 --> 00:28:49,237
coming into the A . O . R . Is sort of 

701
00:28:49,237 --> 00:28:51,292
the operational effect of normal the 

702
00:28:51,292 --> 00:28:53,014
other normalization of Israeli 

703
00:28:53,014 --> 00:28:55,181
relations across across the across the 

704
00:28:55,181 --> 00:28:57,126
gulf and with other states we have 

705
00:28:57,126 --> 00:28:59,181
great opportunities here and I'll be 

706
00:28:59,181 --> 00:29:01,126
prepared to talk a little bit more 

707
00:29:01,126 --> 00:29:03,292
about it in a closed session . Um as a 

708
00:29:03,292 --> 00:29:05,237
follow up have the Abraham accords 

709
00:29:05,237 --> 00:29:07,237
which have allowed for economic and 

710
00:29:07,237 --> 00:29:09,459
military integration between Israel and 

711
00:29:09,459 --> 00:29:11,514
the arab states signatories enhanced 

712
00:29:11,514 --> 00:29:13,237
our ability to counter china's 

713
00:29:13,237 --> 00:29:13,200
influence in the Middle East through 

714
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,500
coordinated economic policy or enhanced 

715
00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:18,800
foreign military sales . I think it is 

716
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,391
on the question of china's entry into 

717
00:29:21,391 --> 00:29:23,810
the theater . Obviously I only control 

718
00:29:23,810 --> 00:29:26,143
a small part of the perspective on that . 

719
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,776
I would say that in terms of foreign 

720
00:29:28,776 --> 00:29:30,887
military sales we have an opportunity 

721
00:29:30,887 --> 00:29:32,831
here to pursue greater integration 

722
00:29:32,831 --> 00:29:34,942
again , particularly in the domain of 

723
00:29:34,942 --> 00:29:37,109
air defense systems , which I think is 

724
00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:38,831
low hanging fruit . Everyone's 

725
00:29:38,831 --> 00:29:40,942
interested in it , particularly since 

726
00:29:40,942 --> 00:29:42,998
the keyword defense is in the in the 

727
00:29:42,998 --> 00:29:44,831
design . These are not offensive 

728
00:29:44,831 --> 00:29:47,053
systems . These are systems designed to 

729
00:29:47,053 --> 00:29:49,220
protect those nations that are there . 

730
00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:51,331
And this question is for both General 

731
00:29:51,331 --> 00:29:53,164
Mackenzie and General Townsend . 

732
00:29:53,164 --> 00:29:55,387
General Mackenzie , China has extensive 

733
00:29:55,387 --> 00:29:57,609
influence in the Middle East and Africa 

734
00:29:57,609 --> 00:29:59,331
both through its belt and road 

735
00:29:59,331 --> 00:30:01,220
initiative and through increasing 

736
00:30:01,220 --> 00:30:03,442
foreign arms sales . Can you comment on 

737
00:30:03,442 --> 00:30:05,609
china's economic influence within your 

738
00:30:05,609 --> 00:30:07,553
command and your concerns that our 

739
00:30:07,553 --> 00:30:09,664
regional partners increasingly turned 

740
00:30:09,664 --> 00:30:11,609
to china for military assistance . 

741
00:30:11,740 --> 00:30:13,760
Senator , I'll begin with their 

742
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,927
economic penetration into the region . 

743
00:30:15,927 --> 00:30:17,871
They draw a significant portion of 

744
00:30:17,871 --> 00:30:20,038
their hydrocarbons from the region . A 

745
00:30:20,038 --> 00:30:22,093
lot of it goes through the strait of 

746
00:30:22,093 --> 00:30:24,093
Hormuz , we see as a result of that 

747
00:30:24,093 --> 00:30:26,204
they are interested in pursuing close 

748
00:30:26,204 --> 00:30:28,260
deep and economic relationships with 

749
00:30:28,260 --> 00:30:30,149
nations that adjoin the strait of 

750
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:32,260
Hormuz and in the gulf itself so that 

751
00:30:32,260 --> 00:30:34,038
they can protect that long term 

752
00:30:34,038 --> 00:30:36,038
investment . I believe ultimately , 

753
00:30:36,038 --> 00:30:37,927
that will move from economic to a 

754
00:30:37,927 --> 00:30:39,960
military to military um component . 

755
00:30:40,140 --> 00:30:42,560
They think in the long term , but I 

756
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,616
believe that's inevitable that we're 

757
00:30:44,616 --> 00:30:46,838
gonna see that finally , I believe that 

758
00:30:46,838 --> 00:30:48,838
we remain the partner of choice for 

759
00:30:48,838 --> 00:30:51,060
military systems . Our military systems 

760
00:30:51,060 --> 00:30:50,920
are the best in the world . You get 

761
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,142
what you pay for , You get what you pay 

762
00:30:53,142 --> 00:30:55,700
for if you buy a chinese system . Thank 

763
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:59,480
you . General Townsend . Thanks senator . 

764
00:30:59,490 --> 00:31:01,601
Uh , there's a handout . There should 

765
00:31:01,601 --> 00:31:03,950
be a hand out there that depicts , uh , 

766
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,016
the question you're asking , china's 

767
00:31:06,016 --> 00:31:08,070
investments across the spectrum in 

768
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:10,580
Africa and it's , it's daunting . Uh , 

769
00:31:10,590 --> 00:31:13,580
they are investing primarily in the 

770
00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:15,960
economic realm and then followed by the 

771
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,240
diplomatic realm and then to a lesser 

772
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,550
degree the military domain . However , 

773
00:31:21,940 --> 00:31:24,990
they're uh , military investments are 

774
00:31:24,990 --> 00:31:27,970
playing out in africa . They have their 

775
00:31:27,980 --> 00:31:30,840
one overseas base there and they are 

776
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,460
working hard to develop other overseas 

777
00:31:34,460 --> 00:31:37,560
bases there and I would reiterate what 

778
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,690
General Mackenzie said about , we 

779
00:31:39,690 --> 00:31:43,620
remain the partner of choice and 

780
00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:46,020
our equipment and our training is 

781
00:31:46,030 --> 00:31:48,180
second , uh , is second to none . 

782
00:31:48,190 --> 00:31:51,360
However , it can sometimes take , um , 

783
00:31:51,370 --> 00:31:54,040
a time , a bit of a long time to unfold . 

784
00:31:54,050 --> 00:31:57,730
And that sometimes forces our African 

785
00:31:57,730 --> 00:32:01,150
partners to reach for the , the bird 

786
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,630
and go with the bird in hand , which is 

787
00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:05,960
sometimes china , sometimes Russia . 

788
00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:09,962
Um , General Townsend . How do you view 

789
00:32:09,962 --> 00:32:11,740
our African partners opinion of 

790
00:32:11,740 --> 00:32:13,960
Russia's invasion of Ukraine , Will 

791
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,590
they distance themselves from Russia on 

792
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,520
Russia based on its unprecedented 

793
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,270
action or how do we hold them 

794
00:32:20,270 --> 00:32:22,270
accountable if Russia is allowed to 

795
00:32:22,270 --> 00:32:24,381
remain economically relevant to those 

796
00:32:24,381 --> 00:32:25,381
markets 

797
00:32:29,140 --> 00:32:32,320
center ? I think if you saw the 

798
00:32:32,330 --> 00:32:34,860
vote play out in the um the other day , 

799
00:32:36,190 --> 00:32:40,070
it's sort of a covers the spectrum . So 

800
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,930
about half of africa voted to 

801
00:32:43,930 --> 00:32:46,450
condemn Russia's invasion . 

802
00:32:47,570 --> 00:32:50,860
The other half either voted 

803
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:55,460
um to um either abstained or 

804
00:32:55,460 --> 00:32:57,571
did not vote . I think there was only 

805
00:32:57,571 --> 00:33:00,010
one vote from the continent Eritrea 

806
00:33:00,010 --> 00:33:03,500
voted to support Russia . But it's it 

807
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:05,750
was troubling to me that half of the 

808
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:08,320
continent either abstained or did not 

809
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,180
vote and I think that's because 

810
00:33:11,940 --> 00:33:14,320
they're trying to see how this is gonna 

811
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,010
play out . Many of them have strong 

812
00:33:17,010 --> 00:33:20,450
economic ties to Russia and china . 

813
00:33:20,460 --> 00:33:23,680
Um and I think they're uh biding their 

814
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,200
time . Thank you Mr . Thank you . Thank 

815
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,422
you . Mr Chairman , thank you . Senator 

816
00:33:28,422 --> 00:33:30,644
Gillibrand , Senator Fischer , please . 

817
00:33:30,644 --> 00:33:32,756
Thank you . Mr Chairman and thank you 

818
00:33:32,756 --> 00:33:34,644
to both of you gentlemen for your 

819
00:33:34,644 --> 00:33:36,867
service to the people of this country . 

820
00:33:36,867 --> 00:33:39,400
During and after the retrograde 

821
00:33:39,410 --> 00:33:41,920
president biden touted over the horizon 

822
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,610
counterterrorism operations as our new 

823
00:33:44,610 --> 00:33:47,070
strategy to deal with the terrorist 

824
00:33:47,070 --> 00:33:49,990
threat in Afghanistan . I expressed 

825
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,240
serious concerns with this approach , 

826
00:33:52,250 --> 00:33:54,290
including directly to you . General 

827
00:33:54,290 --> 00:33:58,070
mckinsey for centcom's um during that 

828
00:33:58,070 --> 00:34:01,840
centcom posture hearing last april but 

829
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,460
was repeatedly told by the 

830
00:34:03,460 --> 00:34:05,370
administration that challenges 

831
00:34:05,370 --> 00:34:08,150
associated with this strategy could be 

832
00:34:08,150 --> 00:34:10,880
overcome ? General Makins lee have we 

833
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,340
conducted any over the horizon strikes 

834
00:34:13,340 --> 00:34:16,370
against ISIS K targets in Afghanistan . 

835
00:34:16,530 --> 00:34:18,880
Since august of last year , Senator , 

836
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,658
we have conducted no strikes in 

837
00:34:20,658 --> 00:34:23,550
Afghanistan . Would you agree that 

838
00:34:23,550 --> 00:34:26,460
without sustained CT pressure terrorist 

839
00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:28,810
groups are more able to focus on 

840
00:34:28,810 --> 00:34:31,060
planning and preparing for external 

841
00:34:31,060 --> 00:34:33,260
attacks ? I would agree with that 

842
00:34:33,260 --> 00:34:36,950
statement . Do we have 

843
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,790
any information on terrorists planning 

844
00:34:39,790 --> 00:34:42,390
in Afghanistan ? Senator ? I have 

845
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,660
considerable information on that and 

846
00:34:44,660 --> 00:34:46,604
I'm prepared to brief you in great 

847
00:34:46,604 --> 00:34:48,771
detail in the closed session that will 

848
00:34:48,771 --> 00:34:51,460
follow . I look , I look forward to 

849
00:34:51,940 --> 00:34:55,110
hearing your brief on that General 

850
00:34:55,110 --> 00:34:57,400
Mackenzie , in an interview with the 

851
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,450
Associated Press in December , you 

852
00:34:59,450 --> 00:35:02,620
stated that we're probably at about one 

853
00:35:02,620 --> 00:35:05,130
or 2% of the capabilities we once had 

854
00:35:05,130 --> 00:35:08,590
to look into Afghanistan . Um will you 

855
00:35:08,590 --> 00:35:10,940
be telling us about that in classified 

856
00:35:10,940 --> 00:35:13,640
as well ? I will the brief I give you , 

857
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,696
I believe will be exhaustive and all 

858
00:35:15,696 --> 00:35:17,473
that and all the disciplines of 

859
00:35:17,473 --> 00:35:19,529
intelligence , what we had , what we 

860
00:35:19,529 --> 00:35:21,751
have now , what the difference in those 

861
00:35:21,751 --> 00:35:23,973
are and you'll you'll you'll be able to 

862
00:35:23,973 --> 00:35:25,918
draw your own very stark and clear 

863
00:35:25,918 --> 00:35:27,696
conclusions from that . Is your 

864
00:35:27,696 --> 00:35:30,810
conclusion about the strategy that we 

865
00:35:30,810 --> 00:35:33,030
have in dealing with the terrorist 

866
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:36,060
threat that we are 

867
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,130
effective or not effective in 

868
00:35:40,130 --> 00:35:42,580
sustaining that cT pressure on the 

869
00:35:42,580 --> 00:35:46,470
groups . It's going to 

870
00:35:46,470 --> 00:35:48,803
take a little time for that to play out . 

871
00:35:48,803 --> 00:35:51,026
I believe that , as you noted earlier , 

872
00:35:51,026 --> 00:35:54,020
sustained CT pressure is what prevents 

873
00:35:54,020 --> 00:35:56,490
groups from being able to to grow to 

874
00:35:56,490 --> 00:35:58,546
train to think about plotting beyond 

875
00:35:58,546 --> 00:36:00,823
their immediate survival , for example , 

876
00:36:00,823 --> 00:36:02,990
up and down the Euphrates River Valley 

877
00:36:02,990 --> 00:36:05,640
in Iraq and Syria , ISIS is unable to 

878
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,696
think beyond surviving that night or 

879
00:36:07,696 --> 00:36:09,696
the next night in places where they 

880
00:36:09,696 --> 00:36:11,807
don't have that question of immediate 

881
00:36:11,807 --> 00:36:13,807
personal survival . Then the threat 

882
00:36:13,807 --> 00:36:15,862
begins to grow . But I would like to 

883
00:36:15,862 --> 00:36:18,029
talk about it in a closed session if I 

884
00:36:18,029 --> 00:36:20,480
can , ma'am . In october undersecretary 

885
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,591
col told this committee that we could 

886
00:36:22,591 --> 00:36:25,660
see ISIS K . Generate the capability to 

887
00:36:25,660 --> 00:36:28,270
conduct external operations including 

888
00:36:28,270 --> 00:36:31,220
against the United States In somewhere 

889
00:36:31,220 --> 00:36:33,276
between six and 12 months . And that 

890
00:36:33,276 --> 00:36:35,840
was five months ago today . In your 

891
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,951
written testimony , you stated that , 

892
00:36:37,951 --> 00:36:39,840
quote , the Department of Defense 

893
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,980
assesses ISIS K could establish an 

894
00:36:42,980 --> 00:36:45,340
external attack capability against the 

895
00:36:45,340 --> 00:36:48,500
United States and our allies in 12 to 

896
00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:51,030
18 months . But possibly sooner if the 

897
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:54,150
group experiences unanticipated gains 

898
00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:57,030
in Afghanistan . End quote , what has 

899
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:59,540
caused this intelligence estimate to 

900
00:36:59,540 --> 00:37:02,420
shift from october when Secretary 

901
00:37:02,420 --> 00:37:05,160
column made those comments to what 

902
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,000
you're telling us today . Again , I'll 

903
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,056
talk a little bit more about this in 

904
00:37:10,056 --> 00:37:12,056
the closed session . But the figure 

905
00:37:12,056 --> 00:37:14,278
that the period I gave , which is 12 to 

906
00:37:14,278 --> 00:37:16,278
18 months for ISIS K represents our 

907
00:37:16,278 --> 00:37:18,222
best hole of whole of intelligence 

908
00:37:18,222 --> 00:37:20,389
community thought thinking on this and 

909
00:37:20,389 --> 00:37:22,611
and and and it does change over time as 

910
00:37:22,611 --> 00:37:24,940
we see groups together as we see groups 

911
00:37:24,940 --> 00:37:27,051
fall apart . But I'll be able to give 

912
00:37:27,051 --> 00:37:29,107
you a lot more detail on that in the 

913
00:37:29,107 --> 00:37:31,162
closed session . Okay , let me shift 

914
00:37:31,162 --> 00:37:33,218
gears a little bit then with you and 

915
00:37:33,218 --> 00:37:35,790
we'll continue the C . T . In uh in 

916
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,070
closed session . Um We look at Iran's 

917
00:37:39,070 --> 00:37:41,640
proxies throughout centcom A . O . R . 

918
00:37:41,650 --> 00:37:44,810
And they continue to pose a significant 

919
00:37:44,810 --> 00:37:47,410
threat to our partners and also to our 

920
00:37:47,410 --> 00:37:49,840
own forces in the region . What more do 

921
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,970
you think can be done to deter Iran 

922
00:37:51,970 --> 00:37:55,160
from their malign activities ? I think 

923
00:37:55,170 --> 00:37:57,560
we've established a very clear set of 

924
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,616
red lines with Iran and I think as a 

925
00:37:59,616 --> 00:38:01,850
result of that over the last several 

926
00:38:01,850 --> 00:38:03,961
months their attacks have tapered off 

927
00:38:03,961 --> 00:38:06,260
particularly in Iraq which I believe 

928
00:38:06,270 --> 00:38:08,120
Iran views as the principal 

929
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,342
battleground for confronting the United 

930
00:38:10,342 --> 00:38:12,564
States and our partners in the region . 

931
00:38:12,564 --> 00:38:14,731
And we've been able to do that by very 

932
00:38:14,731 --> 00:38:16,564
effective increasingly effective 

933
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:18,831
counter U . A . S . And other systems 

934
00:38:18,831 --> 00:38:20,910
to defend ourselves and at the same 

935
00:38:20,910 --> 00:38:23,050
time they're finding it increasingly 

936
00:38:23,050 --> 00:38:25,380
difficult to gain any kind of political 

937
00:38:25,380 --> 00:38:27,547
traction with the government of Iraq . 

938
00:38:27,547 --> 00:38:30,060
I think for a long time Iran frankly 

939
00:38:30,060 --> 00:38:32,320
tried to pursue a political solution in 

940
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,542
Iraq that is not open to them anymore . 

941
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:38,750
And do you believe that that we are um 

942
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,316
that we have a good working 

943
00:38:40,316 --> 00:38:42,427
relationship with our partners in the 

944
00:38:42,427 --> 00:38:45,190
area in providing them defense against 

945
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:47,710
missiles and drones . I believe that we 

946
00:38:47,710 --> 00:38:49,821
do you know I worked very hard at the 

947
00:38:49,821 --> 00:38:51,877
military to military channel with my 

948
00:38:51,877 --> 00:38:53,988
peers , the Chiefs of Defense in each 

949
00:38:53,988 --> 00:38:56,043
of these countries . I believe we do 

950
00:38:56,043 --> 00:38:55,830
have a very good relationship with them . 

951
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,653
Thank you sir . Thank you . Mr Chairman , 

952
00:38:58,653 --> 00:39:00,764
thank you . Senator Fischer ? Senator 

953
00:39:00,764 --> 00:39:02,931
King , please ? Mhm . Thank you . Mr . 

954
00:39:02,931 --> 00:39:06,290
Chairman 1st two Observations . 1 is 

955
00:39:06,290 --> 00:39:08,880
the Important day in us history that 

956
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,991
this represents . 202 years ago , the 

957
00:39:10,991 --> 00:39:13,680
state of Maine joined the Union and I 

958
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,060
just wanted to note that uh secondly , 

959
00:39:17,060 --> 00:39:19,600
I'm sorry that our ranking member has 

960
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,160
gone because uh there's no senator that 

961
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,216
knows more about africa than Senator 

962
00:39:24,216 --> 00:39:26,382
Inhofe and has committed more time and 

963
00:39:26,382 --> 00:39:29,390
effort and and diplomatic and 

964
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,680
outreach to that continent . And I just 

965
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,902
wanted to recognize that as this may be 

966
00:39:34,902 --> 00:39:36,958
the last posture , hearing involving 

967
00:39:36,958 --> 00:39:39,124
Africa , that he's a still a member of 

968
00:39:39,124 --> 00:39:41,660
this committee . Couple of questions to 

969
00:39:41,660 --> 00:39:44,280
follow up on on Senator Fischer's 

970
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,447
questions . General Mackenzie , what's 

971
00:39:46,447 --> 00:39:49,130
the status of the a lock with Pakistan ? 

972
00:39:49,130 --> 00:39:51,070
And do we have any understanding 

973
00:39:51,070 --> 00:39:53,240
whatsoever with regard to the a lock 

974
00:39:54,420 --> 00:39:58,100
for a kinetic strike as opposed to I . 

975
00:39:58,100 --> 00:40:02,090
S . R . So right now we are flying up 

976
00:40:02,090 --> 00:40:04,201
the a lock to conduct our I . S . Are 

977
00:40:04,201 --> 00:40:06,534
for further discussions on that senator , 

978
00:40:06,534 --> 00:40:08,757
I'd really prefer prefer to go into the 

979
00:40:08,757 --> 00:40:10,701
closed session and I'll be able to 

980
00:40:10,701 --> 00:40:10,570
answer your questions very directly in 

981
00:40:10,570 --> 00:40:14,410
that session . Um Can you give us and I 

982
00:40:14,410 --> 00:40:16,410
know we're gonna talk about this in 

983
00:40:16,410 --> 00:40:19,150
closed session , but uh since the are 

984
00:40:19,150 --> 00:40:21,150
leaving of Afghanistan at late last 

985
00:40:21,150 --> 00:40:24,960
summer uh compare ISIS and 

986
00:40:24,970 --> 00:40:28,080
Al Qaeda because the taliban is hostile 

987
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,030
to ISIS not so hostile to Al Qaeda Is 

988
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,040
the taliban maintaining pressure on 

989
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,170
ISIS . The taliban is attempting to 

990
00:40:35,170 --> 00:40:37,310
maintain pressure on ISIS . They're 

991
00:40:37,310 --> 00:40:39,720
finding it difficult to do . So . IsIS 

992
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:41,930
has been able to execute some high 

993
00:40:41,930 --> 00:40:44,560
profile attacks even in Kabul over the 

994
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,750
last several months were coming out of 

995
00:40:46,750 --> 00:40:48,972
the out of the winter . Traditionally , 

996
00:40:48,972 --> 00:40:50,861
this would now begin the fighting 

997
00:40:50,861 --> 00:40:53,083
season . It is my expectation that ISIS 

998
00:40:53,083 --> 00:40:55,570
attacks will ramp up in Afghanistan as 

999
00:40:55,570 --> 00:40:57,792
we go into the summer . And and you you 

1000
00:40:57,792 --> 00:41:00,014
are correct . You know , the taliban is 

1001
00:41:00,014 --> 00:41:02,126
going to go after ISIS . They've done 

1002
00:41:02,126 --> 00:41:04,181
so in the past , but it's gonna be a 

1003
00:41:04,181 --> 00:41:05,959
tough fight . They did not help 

1004
00:41:05,959 --> 00:41:07,959
themselves , they being the taliban 

1005
00:41:07,959 --> 00:41:07,590
when they released the number of 

1006
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,544
prisoners from Poland , Sharky and 

1007
00:41:09,544 --> 00:41:12,150
parwan , over 1000 ISIS fighters that 

1008
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:13,872
reverted back to the group and 

1009
00:41:13,872 --> 00:41:15,761
significantly empowered the group 

1010
00:41:15,761 --> 00:41:17,817
within Afghanistan . And now they're 

1011
00:41:17,817 --> 00:41:19,761
gonna , now they're gonna reap the 

1012
00:41:19,761 --> 00:41:21,872
results of that action . So , I think 

1013
00:41:21,872 --> 00:41:24,039
that's a problem for , for the taliban 

1014
00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:25,983
as for Al Qaeda . Uh , but I think 

1015
00:41:25,983 --> 00:41:28,150
they're much less firm on the Al Qaeda 

1016
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:30,150
issue in terms of opposing them and 

1017
00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:32,150
being able to limit them , although 

1018
00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:34,261
they have done some things publicly . 

1019
00:41:34,261 --> 00:41:33,680
That would tend to make you think they 

1020
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,791
at least want to send the signal that 

1021
00:41:35,791 --> 00:41:37,958
they're doing . And I'll talk a little 

1022
00:41:37,958 --> 00:41:37,500
more about that in a closed session . 

1023
00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:39,500
Thank you . I want to return to the 

1024
00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:41,556
chairman's , opening questions about 

1025
00:41:41,556 --> 00:41:44,710
Iran . Um , a deal by definition is 

1026
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:46,710
something where there are things on 

1027
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:48,266
both sides , advantages and 

1028
00:41:48,266 --> 00:41:50,154
disadvantages ? One side gives up 

1029
00:41:50,154 --> 00:41:50,130
something ? One side gains something . 

1030
00:41:50,810 --> 00:41:54,430
Um , how do you assess ? Let's assume 

1031
00:41:54,430 --> 00:41:56,708
for a moment that there is a renewed J . 

1032
00:41:56,708 --> 00:41:58,819
P . C . P . O . A which significantly 

1033
00:41:58,819 --> 00:42:01,270
limits Iran's nuclear capability for 

1034
00:42:01,270 --> 00:42:03,437
the foreseeable future for some period 

1035
00:42:03,437 --> 00:42:05,659
of years . At the same time , sanctions 

1036
00:42:05,659 --> 00:42:07,890
are relieved in some way that enables 

1037
00:42:07,890 --> 00:42:10,112
them to have additional resources which 

1038
00:42:10,112 --> 00:42:11,946
they could put into their malign 

1039
00:42:11,946 --> 00:42:14,260
activities in the region . Would you 

1040
00:42:14,270 --> 00:42:17,090
view that as a reasonable trade off ? 

1041
00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:19,510
In other words , realizing you can't 

1042
00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:22,220
have everything do you view the a 

1043
00:42:22,220 --> 00:42:24,490
nuclear Iran is more dangerous than an 

1044
00:42:24,490 --> 00:42:26,712
Iran with more money in their pockets ? 

1045
00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:29,122
Well , senator as you know , centcom is 

1046
00:42:29,122 --> 00:42:31,456
the land of less than perfect solutions . 

1047
00:42:31,456 --> 00:42:33,567
So I'm always comfortable with a less 

1048
00:42:33,567 --> 00:42:35,789
less than perfect solution . It is a an 

1049
00:42:35,789 --> 00:42:38,011
overriding national policy objective of 

1050
00:42:38,011 --> 00:42:40,178
the United States for Iran to not have 

1051
00:42:40,178 --> 00:42:42,400
a nuclear weapon and be able to possess 

1052
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:41,960
a nuclear weapon . So I think that's a 

1053
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,127
very important goal and you might have 

1054
00:42:44,127 --> 00:42:46,238
to make some tradeoffs to get to that 

1055
00:42:46,238 --> 00:42:48,571
point . But as as at the military level , 

1056
00:42:48,571 --> 00:42:50,627
my concern is first of all that they 

1057
00:42:50,627 --> 00:42:52,849
not have that nuclear weapon . But I am 

1058
00:42:52,849 --> 00:42:54,516
also very concerned about the 

1059
00:42:54,516 --> 00:42:56,293
remarkable growth in number and 

1060
00:42:56,293 --> 00:42:58,404
efficiency of their ballistic missile 

1061
00:42:58,404 --> 00:43:00,627
force . Their U A . V . Program , there 

1062
00:43:00,627 --> 00:43:02,682
are long range drones and their land 

1063
00:43:02,682 --> 00:43:04,793
attack cruise missile programs . That 

1064
00:43:04,793 --> 00:43:04,580
was all of those concerned me . That 

1065
00:43:04,580 --> 00:43:06,802
was going to be my next question . What 

1066
00:43:06,802 --> 00:43:09,024
what's what's our current assessment if 

1067
00:43:09,024 --> 00:43:10,913
we can do this in an unclassified 

1068
00:43:10,913 --> 00:43:13,300
setting of the range of the Of Iranian 

1069
00:43:13,300 --> 00:43:15,356
missiles . In other words , can they 

1070
00:43:15,356 --> 00:43:17,578
get to Paris , can they get to London ? 

1071
00:43:17,578 --> 00:43:19,578
Can they get to New York ? Are they 

1072
00:43:19,578 --> 00:43:21,744
simply regional regional weapon ? They 

1073
00:43:21,744 --> 00:43:23,800
have over 3000 ballistic missiles of 

1074
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,190
various types , some of which can reach 

1075
00:43:26,190 --> 00:43:28,510
Tel Aviv to give you an idea of range . 

1076
00:43:28,610 --> 00:43:30,840
None of them can reach Europe yet . But 

1077
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,007
over the last 5 to 7 years , Senator , 

1078
00:43:33,190 --> 00:43:35,190
they have invested heavily in their 

1079
00:43:35,190 --> 00:43:37,079
ballistic missile program . Their 

1080
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:39,079
missiles are of great significantly 

1081
00:43:39,079 --> 00:43:40,857
greater range and significantly 

1082
00:43:40,857 --> 00:43:43,023
enhanced accuracy . We saw that in the 

1083
00:43:43,023 --> 00:43:44,968
attack on al assad in january 2020 

1084
00:43:44,968 --> 00:43:47,190
where their missiles hit within tens of 

1085
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:47,090
meters of the targets they were 

1086
00:43:47,090 --> 00:43:50,500
intended to hit general Townsend , um 

1087
00:43:50,510 --> 00:43:52,870
any buyer's remorse or I should say 

1088
00:43:52,870 --> 00:43:54,920
borrower's remorse in africa with 

1089
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,920
regard to the relationship of these 

1090
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,890
countries to china . Are they , is 

1091
00:43:58,890 --> 00:44:01,070
there any uh , well , I think 

1092
00:44:01,070 --> 00:44:03,348
borrower's remorse is the right phrase . 

1093
00:44:03,348 --> 00:44:05,181
Uh , Second thoughts about these 

1094
00:44:05,181 --> 00:44:08,910
relationships . Um , Senator , I would 

1095
00:44:08,910 --> 00:44:10,854
say , yes , we see that across the 

1096
00:44:10,854 --> 00:44:13,820
continent . So when uh , as as you're 

1097
00:44:13,830 --> 00:44:16,600
familiar , uh , when um , china started 

1098
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,200
investing heavily uh in africa this 

1099
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,600
term debt trap , diplomacy was born . 

1100
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:27,730
I think that's another way of saying it 

1101
00:44:27,730 --> 00:44:30,080
as well . I think the African , our 

1102
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,350
African partners by and large are very 

1103
00:44:32,350 --> 00:44:34,790
well aware of that . And uh the 

1104
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,840
countries that we see um still hewing 

1105
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,000
to china are those that 

1106
00:44:42,190 --> 00:44:46,030
well they they're not well governed or 

1107
00:44:46,030 --> 00:44:48,860
their autocrats . So I think there is a 

1108
00:44:48,860 --> 00:44:50,860
growing awareness of that and we're 

1109
00:44:50,860 --> 00:44:52,971
seeing that . Thank you . Thank you . 

1110
00:44:52,971 --> 00:44:54,971
Mr . Chairman thank you . Senator . 

1111
00:44:54,971 --> 00:44:57,690
King . Senator rounds . Please thank 

1112
00:44:57,690 --> 00:45:00,160
you . Mr . Chairman gentlemen First let 

1113
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,680
me begin by saying thank you to both of 

1114
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,710
you for your service to our country . 

1115
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:08,640
Let me also thank your families for 

1116
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,860
their participation as well . General 

1117
00:45:11,860 --> 00:45:14,470
Townsend while Russia and china are 

1118
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:16,581
aggressively expanding their physical 

1119
00:45:16,581 --> 00:45:18,581
footprint in Africa , I'm concerned 

1120
00:45:18,581 --> 00:45:20,581
with their even more aggressive and 

1121
00:45:20,581 --> 00:45:23,610
nefarious activity in cyberspace . Can 

1122
00:45:23,610 --> 00:45:25,810
you discuss how Russia and china have 

1123
00:45:25,810 --> 00:45:27,977
used cyber to advance their objectives 

1124
00:45:27,977 --> 00:45:30,320
in your A . O . R . And how your team 

1125
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:31,764
is combating the threat ? 

1126
00:45:34,590 --> 00:45:36,800
Senator , I'll be able to go into more 

1127
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,030
detail in a closed session . But I can 

1128
00:45:39,030 --> 00:45:42,610
say this about Russia Russia 

1129
00:45:43,090 --> 00:45:46,650
and you're familiar with the 

1130
00:45:46,650 --> 00:45:50,640
oligarch precaution , he has a 

1131
00:45:50,910 --> 00:45:53,700
troll farms . He invests in troll farms 

1132
00:45:54,090 --> 00:45:58,000
in africa and a number of those were 

1133
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,310
involved in interfere election 

1134
00:46:01,310 --> 00:46:04,080
interference globally to include our 

1135
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,450
country . Uh and that's continuing , 

1136
00:46:06,460 --> 00:46:08,571
we're seeing that continue with china 

1137
00:46:08,571 --> 00:46:10,682
and not as much and I can probably go 

1138
00:46:10,682 --> 00:46:12,738
into more detail in closed session . 

1139
00:46:12,780 --> 00:46:16,310
Thank you sir . Also I think Senator 

1140
00:46:16,310 --> 00:46:18,477
Inhofe hit on this but I would like to 

1141
00:46:18,477 --> 00:46:21,130
re emphasize the challenges in the 

1142
00:46:21,130 --> 00:46:25,040
sorority region in South Sahara regions 

1143
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,280
where you have challenges where 

1144
00:46:27,390 --> 00:46:29,612
literally you've got 40,000 people that 

1145
00:46:29,612 --> 00:46:31,446
have been displaced out of their 

1146
00:46:31,446 --> 00:46:33,310
homeland awaiting for a U . N . 

1147
00:46:33,310 --> 00:46:35,630
Resolution or at least some sort of an 

1148
00:46:35,630 --> 00:46:39,380
opportunity for independence . And most 

1149
00:46:39,380 --> 00:46:41,269
certainly Morocco is right in the 

1150
00:46:41,269 --> 00:46:43,580
middle of it . And it seems to me that 

1151
00:46:43,590 --> 00:46:45,800
I think what what Senator Inhofe has 

1152
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,520
indicated is is the the fear that in 

1153
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,860
the future if we are not observant to 

1154
00:46:51,860 --> 00:46:53,971
the real problems that have developed 

1155
00:46:53,971 --> 00:46:55,916
there , that we're going to have a 

1156
00:46:55,916 --> 00:46:58,027
hotbed there and it's going to be one 

1157
00:46:58,027 --> 00:47:00,249
that will not go away . And we're gonna 

1158
00:47:00,249 --> 00:47:02,416
wonder why we suddenly have extremists 

1159
00:47:02,416 --> 00:47:04,527
developing in that region Recognizing 

1160
00:47:04,527 --> 00:47:06,693
though for the last 40 years they have 

1161
00:47:06,693 --> 00:47:08,860
been displaced from their homeland and 

1162
00:47:08,860 --> 00:47:11,027
the rest of the world has done nothing 

1163
00:47:11,027 --> 00:47:13,027
to try to resolve the situation . I 

1164
00:47:13,027 --> 00:47:14,971
know that it's an area that you're 

1165
00:47:14,971 --> 00:47:17,138
aware of . Do you have any comments on 

1166
00:47:17,138 --> 00:47:17,000
what's going on right now in that 

1167
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,340
region , Senator . I think 

1168
00:47:20,350 --> 00:47:22,990
primarily this is a diplomatic or 

1169
00:47:22,990 --> 00:47:26,140
political problem , less military one . 

1170
00:47:26,140 --> 00:47:28,290
But uh , but for all the things that 

1171
00:47:28,290 --> 00:47:30,401
you just mentioned , I agree with and 

1172
00:47:30,401 --> 00:47:34,290
we are we are watching it . Thanks If 

1173
00:47:34,290 --> 00:47:36,457
it's not fixed diplomatically , I fear 

1174
00:47:36,457 --> 00:47:38,568
that it will become a problem for the 

1175
00:47:38,568 --> 00:47:42,120
military . Um General 

1176
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,920
McKenzie , I really think along with a 

1177
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,100
lot of us here that the way that we 

1178
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:50,156
left Afghanistan on a date . certain 

1179
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,800
put our military men and women in a 

1180
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,490
very precarious position and that it 

1181
00:47:56,490 --> 00:47:58,340
was not the correct way to leave 

1182
00:47:58,340 --> 00:48:00,670
Afghanistan . We believe that it was 

1183
00:48:00,670 --> 00:48:04,210
reckless half hazard and it endangered 

1184
00:48:04,210 --> 00:48:06,610
the lives of our servicemen and women . 

1185
00:48:07,470 --> 00:48:10,840
Our deeds helped to reshape the current 

1186
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,450
worldwide operational environment where 

1187
00:48:13,460 --> 00:48:16,150
our adversaries have been emboldened to 

1188
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:18,480
take greater risks and challenging our 

1189
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,530
national security . We also broke faith 

1190
00:48:21,530 --> 00:48:23,252
with many afghans who directly 

1191
00:48:23,252 --> 00:48:25,490
supported us forces . These brave 

1192
00:48:25,490 --> 00:48:27,600
afghans are eligible for special 

1193
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,690
immigrant visas or S . I . V . S . Yet 

1194
00:48:30,690 --> 00:48:32,357
they're trapped and have been 

1195
00:48:32,357 --> 00:48:34,330
threatened in Afghanistan . The 

1196
00:48:34,330 --> 00:48:37,440
Washington Post has reported that Qatar 

1197
00:48:37,710 --> 00:48:41,060
airways has been chartering 1-2 US 

1198
00:48:41,060 --> 00:48:43,060
government flights from Kabul every 

1199
00:48:43,060 --> 00:48:45,830
week from august to december . These 

1200
00:48:45,830 --> 00:48:48,640
flights briefly stopped , then resumed 

1201
00:48:48,650 --> 00:48:52,340
after the new year began . One of the S 

1202
00:48:52,340 --> 00:48:54,320
ivy applicants who my office has 

1203
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,820
assisted for the last eight months just 

1204
00:48:56,820 --> 00:48:58,931
recently was able to get out of Kabul 

1205
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,360
in fact just this week , but he was 

1206
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,080
forced to take a rather adventurous and 

1207
00:49:04,090 --> 00:49:07,680
long roundabout way through a third 

1208
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,200
country in order to get out . Can you 

1209
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,680
tell me general who specifically has 

1210
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,650
been on these weekly flights and 

1211
00:49:15,650 --> 00:49:18,330
whether they are the afghans who risked 

1212
00:49:18,330 --> 00:49:21,200
their lives to help our service members 

1213
00:49:23,370 --> 00:49:25,426
senator . Our responsibility in this 

1214
00:49:25,426 --> 00:49:27,592
matter is to support the Department of 

1215
00:49:27,592 --> 00:49:29,850
State by providing lily pads and at 

1216
00:49:29,860 --> 00:49:31,916
campus sayliyah in Qatar when people 

1217
00:49:31,916 --> 00:49:34,100
come out of Afghanistan , we process 

1218
00:49:34,100 --> 00:49:36,267
them . we make sure they're physically 

1219
00:49:36,267 --> 00:49:38,489
fit . We do all the things to move them 

1220
00:49:38,489 --> 00:49:40,711
on to their final destination . Whether 

1221
00:49:40,711 --> 00:49:39,940
that's the United States or another 

1222
00:49:39,940 --> 00:49:42,162
country . The State Department's call , 

1223
00:49:42,162 --> 00:49:44,162
not not our call , but we are fully 

1224
00:49:44,162 --> 00:49:46,384
committed to assisting in that the same 

1225
00:49:46,384 --> 00:49:48,440
thing in U . A . E . Where there's a 

1226
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,607
facility that is not really run by the 

1227
00:49:50,607 --> 00:49:52,829
United States but rather by R . U . A . 

1228
00:49:52,829 --> 00:49:54,773
E . Partners . As to your question 

1229
00:49:54,773 --> 00:49:56,940
about who's coming out , who who who's 

1230
00:49:56,940 --> 00:49:58,996
on the flights that Qatar airways is 

1231
00:49:58,996 --> 00:49:58,920
running out every every couple of weeks . 

1232
00:49:58,930 --> 00:50:01,560
I believe they are largely uh s ivy 

1233
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,250
applicants . But Senator I am actually 

1234
00:50:04,250 --> 00:50:06,306
not in a minute to minute command of 

1235
00:50:06,306 --> 00:50:08,417
that information . You know , that is 

1236
00:50:08,417 --> 00:50:10,750
actually run by the Department of State . 

1237
00:50:10,750 --> 00:50:12,750
We support logistically , but those 

1238
00:50:12,750 --> 00:50:12,530
decisions fall all within the 

1239
00:50:12,530 --> 00:50:14,752
Department of State . I'll simply close 

1240
00:50:14,752 --> 00:50:16,752
by saying we have the capability to 

1241
00:50:16,752 --> 00:50:18,641
support this effort , systems and 

1242
00:50:18,641 --> 00:50:20,530
procedures in place well into the 

1243
00:50:20,530 --> 00:50:22,641
future . Thank you . And once again , 

1244
00:50:22,641 --> 00:50:24,530
thank you to both of you for your 

1245
00:50:24,530 --> 00:50:26,752
service to our country . Thank you . Mr 

1246
00:50:26,752 --> 00:50:28,863
Chairman , thank you . Senator around 

1247
00:50:28,863 --> 00:50:30,808
Senator Mansion please Thank you . 

1248
00:50:30,808 --> 00:50:32,808
Thank you Mr Chairman and thank you 

1249
00:50:32,808 --> 00:50:34,919
both again for your service and thank 

1250
00:50:34,919 --> 00:50:37,086
you for all the hard work you're doing 

1251
00:50:37,086 --> 00:50:39,419
here . I just have two questions really . 

1252
00:50:39,419 --> 00:50:39,290
Whoever I think probably General 

1253
00:50:39,290 --> 00:50:41,560
Mackenzie might come to you . First of 

1254
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,671
all , the the Afghanistan situation I 

1255
00:50:43,671 --> 00:50:45,782
was reading this morning , an article 

1256
00:50:45,782 --> 00:50:47,949
that said basically the road from from 

1257
00:50:47,949 --> 00:50:50,116
Kabul to Kandahar is now safe . People 

1258
00:50:50,116 --> 00:50:52,320
are , commerce is coming back a little 

1259
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,098
bit and you're seeing different 

1260
00:50:54,098 --> 00:50:56,153
roadside things going on in this and 

1261
00:50:56,153 --> 00:50:58,760
that and basically for the peace in the 

1262
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,960
country . Do you see that basically 

1263
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,960
where people are embracing that and 

1264
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,127
believe they have the ability to build 

1265
00:51:05,127 --> 00:51:07,182
any type of an economy whatsoever or 

1266
00:51:07,182 --> 00:51:09,404
without our assistance ? Because I read 

1267
00:51:09,404 --> 00:51:09,400
of the famine , I read of all the 

1268
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,622
different hardships that are going on . 

1269
00:51:11,622 --> 00:51:13,844
They're also the only economy they have 

1270
00:51:13,844 --> 00:51:16,470
was ours that's gone . I think it's a 

1271
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,130
it's I do not believe it's a 

1272
00:51:18,130 --> 00:51:20,352
particularly safe place to be . I think 

1273
00:51:20,352 --> 00:51:22,519
you can probably drive on what we call 

1274
00:51:22,519 --> 00:51:24,352
the ring road from Kabul down to 

1275
00:51:24,352 --> 00:51:26,519
Kandahar in a way that you couldn't do 

1276
00:51:26,519 --> 00:51:28,741
it in the past . But at the same time , 

1277
00:51:28,741 --> 00:51:30,797
we know that the Taliban is actually 

1278
00:51:30,797 --> 00:51:32,963
carrying out , you know , searches for 

1279
00:51:32,963 --> 00:51:35,186
former Afghan government officials , we 

1280
00:51:35,186 --> 00:51:37,352
know that women are entering a new and 

1281
00:51:37,352 --> 00:51:39,574
repressive existence under their rule . 

1282
00:51:39,574 --> 00:51:41,686
So , I I While it may you may not see 

1283
00:51:41,686 --> 00:51:43,852
the kind of violence that you saw over 

1284
00:51:43,852 --> 00:51:46,074
the last 10 or 15 years there , I'm not 

1285
00:51:46,074 --> 00:51:45,340
sure it's a place where anyone would 

1286
00:51:45,340 --> 00:51:47,062
want to be . And I believe the 

1287
00:51:47,062 --> 00:51:49,229
continued press of people that want to 

1288
00:51:49,229 --> 00:51:51,340
leave Afghanistan is perhaps the best 

1289
00:51:51,340 --> 00:51:53,451
indicator of just what conditions are 

1290
00:51:53,451 --> 00:51:55,396
like on the ground . I was leaving 

1291
00:51:55,396 --> 00:51:55,030
Afghanistan , the way we did is that 

1292
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:57,086
lead us in the worst shape as far as 

1293
00:51:57,086 --> 00:52:00,270
with our allies . I think , I think 

1294
00:52:01,250 --> 00:52:03,710
too soon to tell . But I think , uh , I 

1295
00:52:03,710 --> 00:52:05,950
think what what our principle goal in 

1296
00:52:05,950 --> 00:52:08,370
Afghanistan was and remains to ensure 

1297
00:52:08,370 --> 00:52:10,537
that attacks against the United States 

1298
00:52:10,537 --> 00:52:12,481
are not going to be generated from 

1299
00:52:12,481 --> 00:52:14,592
there from Al Qaeda and from and from 

1300
00:52:14,592 --> 00:52:16,703
ISIS K right now . You believe that's 

1301
00:52:16,703 --> 00:52:18,981
that we have subdued that from happily . 

1302
00:52:18,981 --> 00:52:18,490
They're building it back up again . So 

1303
00:52:18,490 --> 00:52:20,546
I believe it is much harder to do it 

1304
00:52:20,546 --> 00:52:22,490
now than it was before . It is not 

1305
00:52:22,490 --> 00:52:24,490
impossible to do it . But I'll have 

1306
00:52:24,490 --> 00:52:26,712
considerable level of detail on that in 

1307
00:52:26,712 --> 00:52:26,660
a closed session . Putin's war on 

1308
00:52:26,660 --> 00:52:28,910
Ukraine with the energy , it's an 

1309
00:52:28,910 --> 00:52:31,640
energy war , Putin's war on Ukraine and 

1310
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,696
what we're going through there . And 

1311
00:52:33,696 --> 00:52:36,670
also seeing us now , I have , I have a 

1312
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,513
little bit of a concern with the 

1313
00:52:38,513 --> 00:52:40,736
administration's position on the energy 

1314
00:52:40,736 --> 00:52:42,958
that we produce in our country . And we 

1315
00:52:42,958 --> 00:52:45,180
could do a little bit more working with 

1316
00:52:45,180 --> 00:52:48,480
our Canadian and our mexican allies . 

1317
00:52:49,250 --> 00:52:51,990
With that being said , the Iran , the 

1318
00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:54,101
Iran situation that we're talking , I 

1319
00:52:54,101 --> 00:52:56,268
think things have stalled there on the 

1320
00:52:56,268 --> 00:52:58,730
Iran deal again . But also I'm 

1321
00:52:58,730 --> 00:53:01,030
concerned about Iran , the way we the 

1322
00:53:01,030 --> 00:53:03,360
last deal that we made with Iran was 

1323
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,304
not made on basically winning your 

1324
00:53:05,550 --> 00:53:08,880
earning your way back into a ah 

1325
00:53:09,250 --> 00:53:11,100
a productive society from the 

1326
00:53:11,100 --> 00:53:13,156
standpoint . We were giving them too 

1327
00:53:13,156 --> 00:53:15,378
many reliefs on their sanctions upfront 

1328
00:53:15,378 --> 00:53:17,433
and they never did come through with 

1329
00:53:17,433 --> 00:53:19,544
Iran's situation right now in the oil 

1330
00:53:19,544 --> 00:53:21,378
that we have in the sanctions to 

1331
00:53:21,378 --> 00:53:23,156
removed , ran back into the oil 

1332
00:53:23,156 --> 00:53:24,878
business or bigger and also in 

1333
00:53:24,878 --> 00:53:26,933
Venezuela , What effect do you think 

1334
00:53:26,933 --> 00:53:26,920
that would have on the Iranian 

1335
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,031
government for them to have that flow 

1336
00:53:29,031 --> 00:53:31,460
of cash again ? Senator , I'm probably 

1337
00:53:31,460 --> 00:53:33,460
not the best witness to . To answer 

1338
00:53:33,460 --> 00:53:35,516
that . That part of the question , I 

1339
00:53:35,516 --> 00:53:37,238
can tell you from the military 

1340
00:53:37,238 --> 00:53:39,182
stability perspective , which I am 

1341
00:53:39,182 --> 00:53:41,349
confident to talk about . My principal 

1342
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:43,516
interest in Iran is ensuring that they 

1343
00:53:43,516 --> 00:53:45,682
don't attack us or our partners in the 

1344
00:53:45,682 --> 00:53:47,904
region directly or indirectly . To keep 

1345
00:53:47,904 --> 00:53:49,738
keep Iran deterred from taking , 

1346
00:53:49,738 --> 00:53:51,960
undertaking those kinds of activities ? 

1347
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:51,930
We have had some success doing that 

1348
00:53:51,930 --> 00:53:53,930
over the last couple of years . Not 

1349
00:53:53,930 --> 00:53:56,200
complete success . But there's still , 

1350
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,144
I mean , indications they're still 

1351
00:53:58,144 --> 00:53:59,756
basically one of the largest 

1352
00:53:59,756 --> 00:54:01,867
proliferators of terrorist attacks in 

1353
00:54:01,867 --> 00:54:04,089
that part of the world , correct ? That 

1354
00:54:04,089 --> 00:54:06,311
is absolutely correct . And basically , 

1355
00:54:06,311 --> 00:54:06,260
with Yemen and all that , they're still 

1356
00:54:07,140 --> 00:54:09,307
very much involved . They're supplying 

1357
00:54:09,307 --> 00:54:11,430
them . Iran is the principal region . 

1358
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,551
Reason that the conflict in Yemen can 

1359
00:54:13,551 --> 00:54:15,384
be brought to a conclusion in my 

1360
00:54:15,384 --> 00:54:18,260
judgment , john Townsend and give us 

1361
00:54:18,260 --> 00:54:20,500
the situation we have in Africa Africa 

1362
00:54:20,500 --> 00:54:22,667
right now , what's your thoughts about 

1363
00:54:22,667 --> 00:54:26,000
that Central ? Could you didn't catch 

1364
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,790
the basically the the situation that we 

1365
00:54:28,790 --> 00:54:31,320
have in Africa right now , What are 

1366
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,376
your concerns that you have the most 

1367
00:54:33,376 --> 00:54:35,653
concerned that you do have . Thank you . 

1368
00:54:35,653 --> 00:54:37,653
Thanks for repeating the question . 

1369
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,010
Well I think probably number one uh is 

1370
00:54:42,020 --> 00:54:44,020
ensuring that the U . S . Maintains 

1371
00:54:44,020 --> 00:54:46,187
strategic access and influence . And I 

1372
00:54:46,187 --> 00:54:49,420
think uh for me that the primary 

1373
00:54:49,420 --> 00:54:52,300
concerns there are china and to a 

1374
00:54:52,310 --> 00:54:55,140
little bit lesser degree Russia , I can 

1375
00:54:55,140 --> 00:54:57,362
go more into detail on that in a closed 

1376
00:54:57,362 --> 00:54:59,251
session . But I'm concerned about 

1377
00:54:59,251 --> 00:55:01,307
china's basing ambitions in Africa . 

1378
00:55:01,340 --> 00:55:03,370
And then the second thing would be 

1379
00:55:03,380 --> 00:55:05,269
countering the threats of violent 

1380
00:55:05,269 --> 00:55:08,010
extremists . They're primarily al 

1381
00:55:08,010 --> 00:55:10,343
Qaeda's arm . Al Shabaab in East Africa . 

1382
00:55:10,343 --> 00:55:12,232
Okay , if I could have 11 further 

1383
00:55:12,232 --> 00:55:14,121
question Mr Chairman , my further 

1384
00:55:14,121 --> 00:55:16,232
question would be this . You know , I 

1385
00:55:16,232 --> 00:55:18,390
remember back at the uh I was a young 

1386
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:21,000
person back in the uh Cuban missile 

1387
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,170
crisis and the concerns we had with 

1388
00:55:23,740 --> 00:55:25,907
nuclear attacks and things and all the 

1389
00:55:25,907 --> 00:55:27,907
tests we ran and everything we were 

1390
00:55:27,907 --> 00:55:30,073
prepared for and all the things we had 

1391
00:55:30,073 --> 00:55:32,296
to go through exercises today . We have 

1392
00:55:32,296 --> 00:55:34,129
so many countries with a nuclear 

1393
00:55:34,129 --> 00:55:36,240
arsenal . What's the most dangerous ? 

1394
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:38,462
You think that we have the country that 

1395
00:55:38,462 --> 00:55:40,518
you're most concerned about with the 

1396
00:55:40,518 --> 00:55:42,740
nuclear capabilities that could do harm 

1397
00:55:42,740 --> 00:55:44,684
not just basically upend the world 

1398
00:55:44,684 --> 00:55:46,907
approach on the world order if you will 

1399
00:55:46,907 --> 00:55:49,240
but basically do damage to the homeland . 

1400
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:51,940
Um Senator for me . I think I subscribe 

1401
00:55:51,940 --> 00:55:53,884
to what's laid out in our national 

1402
00:55:53,884 --> 00:55:56,180
defense strategy which is china is the 

1403
00:55:56,180 --> 00:55:58,458
longer term threat , the pacing threat . 

1404
00:55:58,458 --> 00:56:00,540
But today it's Russia , 

1405
00:56:02,830 --> 00:56:04,941
Senator . I think you have to respect 

1406
00:56:04,941 --> 00:56:07,274
capability . Russia has that capability . 

1407
00:56:07,274 --> 00:56:09,441
China aspires perhaps in the future to 

1408
00:56:09,441 --> 00:56:11,608
have that capability . But I think the 

1409
00:56:11,608 --> 00:56:13,608
acute threat right now of course is 

1410
00:56:13,608 --> 00:56:15,608
Russia and I agree with the General 

1411
00:56:15,608 --> 00:56:17,552
Townsend . Thank you . Thank you . 

1412
00:56:17,552 --> 00:56:19,608
Senator Manchin Senator ernst please 

1413
00:56:19,608 --> 00:56:21,552
thank you Mr Chair and gentlemen , 

1414
00:56:21,552 --> 00:56:23,497
thank you very much for being here 

1415
00:56:23,497 --> 00:56:25,830
today and to your command teams as well . 

1416
00:56:25,830 --> 00:56:27,941
And and General Mackenzie , thank you 

1417
00:56:27,941 --> 00:56:29,997
so much for your commitment and your 

1418
00:56:29,997 --> 00:56:32,052
service during a very difficult time 

1419
00:56:32,052 --> 00:56:34,108
during that transition in the Middle 

1420
00:56:34,108 --> 00:56:36,052
East . Um we truly appreciate it . 

1421
00:56:36,052 --> 00:56:38,310
We're grateful . Um General McKenzie , 

1422
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,431
two weeks before the final withdrawal 

1423
00:56:40,431 --> 00:56:42,620
from Afghanistan . The on the ground 

1424
00:56:43,030 --> 00:56:45,620
Commander of us forces in Afghanistan 

1425
00:56:45,620 --> 00:56:48,060
at that time stated in what are now 

1426
00:56:48,060 --> 00:56:50,100
open source documents that the US 

1427
00:56:50,100 --> 00:56:52,940
forces had targeted and killed over 100 

1428
00:56:53,230 --> 00:56:55,630
Taliban members who were moving on the 

1429
00:56:55,630 --> 00:56:59,470
city of Kabul on August 14 . Is that 

1430
00:56:59,470 --> 00:57:03,460
correct ? That is 

1431
00:57:03,460 --> 00:57:06,120
correct . Okay . Um so we know at that 

1432
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:09,060
time the situation was very tenuous . 

1433
00:57:09,060 --> 00:57:12,890
The Taliban was on the move and an 

1434
00:57:12,890 --> 00:57:15,830
official D . O . D . After action 

1435
00:57:15,830 --> 00:57:18,480
reported had clarified that the 

1436
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,647
president and other senior D . O . D . 

1437
00:57:20,647 --> 00:57:23,020
Official statements um some of which 

1438
00:57:23,020 --> 00:57:26,280
were under oath um And that both on the 

1439
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,447
ground commanders and the intelligence 

1440
00:57:28,447 --> 00:57:30,730
community assessed that the government 

1441
00:57:30,730 --> 00:57:33,370
of Afghanistan's capacity to defend the 

1442
00:57:33,370 --> 00:57:35,720
country from being overrun by the 

1443
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,550
Taliban was for 6-12 months 

1444
00:57:39,550 --> 00:57:42,580
following the US withdrawal . And those 

1445
00:57:42,580 --> 00:57:45,980
statements were unequivocally false . 

1446
00:57:46,330 --> 00:57:49,580
Um Were the assessments of Rear Admiral 

1447
00:57:49,590 --> 00:57:52,390
Peter Vasily and General scott Miller 

1448
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,622
who were the last two commanders of the 

1449
00:57:54,622 --> 00:57:57,140
U . S . Forces in Afghanistan and 

1450
00:57:57,140 --> 00:57:59,400
yourself where they passed on to the 

1451
00:57:59,410 --> 00:58:01,900
Office of the Secretary of Defense 

1452
00:58:01,910 --> 00:58:04,021
because I think there was a different 

1453
00:58:04,021 --> 00:58:06,132
assessment that came from you and the 

1454
00:58:06,132 --> 00:58:08,840
on the ground commanders were those 

1455
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,007
assessments passed on to the Office of 

1456
00:58:11,007 --> 00:58:13,320
Secretary of Defense where they passed 

1457
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,542
on to the State Department , where they 

1458
00:58:15,542 --> 00:58:17,800
passed on to the National Security 

1459
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,750
Council . Senator . I'm confident that 

1460
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,000
my assessments assessments that General 

1461
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,060
Miller as well as subordinate 

1462
00:58:25,060 --> 00:58:27,282
commanders which informed my assessment 

1463
00:58:27,282 --> 00:58:29,449
all those were passed to the secretary 

1464
00:58:29,449 --> 00:58:31,504
and in fact to the highest levels of 

1465
00:58:31,504 --> 00:58:33,671
government . And I was present at some 

1466
00:58:33,671 --> 00:58:33,540
of those meetings where those 

1467
00:58:33,540 --> 00:58:36,170
recommendations were discussed . Were 

1468
00:58:36,170 --> 00:58:39,240
those assessments given to the 

1469
00:58:39,250 --> 00:58:41,960
President ? I believe that I believe 

1470
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,182
that at the very highest level everyone 

1471
00:58:44,182 --> 00:58:46,550
saw and knew these assessments . Okay . 

1472
00:58:46,550 --> 00:58:48,950
Were you ever involved in a discussion 

1473
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:52,650
with the President when dissension 

1474
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,590
was voiced ? So I Senator , I can't I 

1475
00:58:56,590 --> 00:58:58,368
won't be able to comment on any 

1476
00:58:58,368 --> 00:59:00,423
discussions I had with the President 

1477
00:59:00,423 --> 00:59:02,590
but I can tell you this my my position 

1478
00:59:02,590 --> 00:59:04,780
which I have expressed before in front 

1479
00:59:04,780 --> 00:59:06,947
of this committee was that in the fall 

1480
00:59:06,947 --> 00:59:09,730
of 2020 it was probably a mistake to go 

1481
00:59:09,730 --> 00:59:12,200
below the level of 4500 . And in the 

1482
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,730
spring of 2021 it was a mistake to go 

1483
00:59:14,730 --> 00:59:17,220
below the level of 2500 if in fact we 

1484
00:59:17,220 --> 00:59:19,387
did so , we expected the government of 

1485
00:59:19,387 --> 00:59:21,109
Afghanistan to collapse . That 

1486
00:59:21,109 --> 00:59:23,331
reflected my opinion . Also the opinion 

1487
00:59:23,331 --> 00:59:23,330
of General Miller , we had an 

1488
00:59:23,330 --> 00:59:25,400
opportunity to to freely , freely 

1489
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,567
express that opinion and I'm confident 

1490
00:59:27,567 --> 00:59:29,733
I was heard and and and that is really 

1491
00:59:29,733 --> 00:59:31,733
all the military commander can ever 

1492
00:59:31,733 --> 00:59:33,678
hope to have the opportunity to do 

1493
00:59:33,678 --> 00:59:35,844
those decisions to stay or go and what 

1494
00:59:35,844 --> 00:59:37,956
force level you're gonna you're gonna 

1495
00:59:37,956 --> 00:59:40,067
put in Afghanistan are not inherently 

1496
00:59:40,067 --> 00:59:42,178
military decisions . Those are high . 

1497
00:59:42,178 --> 00:59:41,840
There's decisions made at the highest 

1498
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,250
level of the United States . And so I 

1499
00:59:44,250 --> 00:59:46,360
appreciated the opportunity to be a 

1500
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,750
part of that discussion . Mhm . No , 

1501
00:59:48,750 --> 00:59:51,110
and I appreciate your clarity as well . 

1502
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,342
General Mackenzie , thank you so much . 

1503
00:59:53,342 --> 00:59:57,000
Um and as well , now that we are 

1504
00:59:57,010 --> 00:59:59,890
out of Afghanistan , 

1505
01:00:00,410 --> 01:00:03,600
we do see that that china and Russia 

1506
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,700
are becoming more active in 

1507
01:00:06,700 --> 01:00:08,880
Afghanistan and they're seeking to 

1508
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,936
capitalize on the void that has been 

1509
01:00:10,936 --> 01:00:13,390
left in that area . What are some of 

1510
01:00:13,390 --> 01:00:15,612
the tools and capabilities that will be 

1511
01:00:15,612 --> 01:00:18,670
required by the United States to really 

1512
01:00:18,670 --> 01:00:21,920
deter our adversaries that are in 

1513
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,140
Afghanistan right now . So I think 

1514
01:00:24,140 --> 01:00:26,196
primarily it's how you work with the 

1515
01:00:26,196 --> 01:00:28,362
government of Afghanistan , such as it 

1516
01:00:28,362 --> 01:00:30,362
is that , you know , is we have not 

1517
01:00:30,362 --> 01:00:32,529
formally recognized the Taliban as the 

1518
01:00:32,529 --> 01:00:34,418
formal government , but there are 

1519
01:00:34,418 --> 01:00:36,529
levers that we can apply against that 

1520
01:00:36,529 --> 01:00:38,640
entity . Economic levers , diplomatic 

1521
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:40,307
levers , they seek diplomatic 

1522
01:00:40,307 --> 01:00:42,362
recognition not principally from the 

1523
01:00:42,362 --> 01:00:44,362
United States , but also from other 

1524
01:00:44,362 --> 01:00:44,190
nations as well . And so there are 

1525
01:00:44,190 --> 01:00:46,301
things that we can I believe and it's 

1526
01:00:46,301 --> 01:00:48,468
not a military question really , there 

1527
01:00:48,468 --> 01:00:50,412
are things that we can do to shape 

1528
01:00:50,412 --> 01:00:50,230
their behavior and I believe our 

1529
01:00:50,230 --> 01:00:52,452
diplomats are working very hard to that 

1530
01:00:52,452 --> 01:00:54,397
end right now . Very good whole of 

1531
01:00:54,397 --> 01:00:56,452
government and general Townsend just 

1532
01:00:56,452 --> 01:00:59,270
very briefly . Um Do we see a lot of 

1533
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,010
Russian activity in uh in Africa and 

1534
01:01:03,010 --> 01:01:05,580
the use of of contractors , military 

1535
01:01:05,580 --> 01:01:07,220
contractors , other types of 

1536
01:01:07,220 --> 01:01:09,190
contractors and what are those 

1537
01:01:09,190 --> 01:01:11,134
contractors ? And and give us your 

1538
01:01:11,134 --> 01:01:13,190
assessment of whether that makes our 

1539
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:15,890
job more difficult in Africa . Thanks 

1540
01:01:15,890 --> 01:01:17,946
senator . We do see a lot of Russian 

1541
01:01:17,946 --> 01:01:20,112
activity . It's almost all in the form 

1542
01:01:20,112 --> 01:01:22,730
of these private military contractors 

1543
01:01:22,730 --> 01:01:24,841
that you're referring to , namely the 

1544
01:01:24,841 --> 01:01:26,841
Wagner group and some other smaller 

1545
01:01:26,841 --> 01:01:28,900
ones uh there are malign influence , 

1546
01:01:28,910 --> 01:01:30,910
They don't follow anybody's rules . 

1547
01:01:31,010 --> 01:01:33,360
They do what they want , they buttress 

1548
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,780
dictators . Uh they violate , they do 

1549
01:01:36,780 --> 01:01:39,350
gross violations of human rights . I 

1550
01:01:39,350 --> 01:01:42,950
think it's bad for Africa's security 

1551
01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:45,310
and prosperity in the future . Thank 

1552
01:01:45,310 --> 01:01:47,199
you very much gentlemen , again , 

1553
01:01:47,199 --> 01:01:49,254
thanks so much for your service . We 

1554
01:01:49,254 --> 01:01:51,310
truly do appreciate it . Thank you . 

1555
01:01:51,310 --> 01:01:53,477
Thank you Mr Chair , thank you Senator 

1556
01:01:53,477 --> 01:01:53,100
ernst Senator Kaine please