1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,167 Welcome and thanks for joining us . My 2 00:00:02,167 --> 00:00:04,278 guest today is Dr Mark Taylor . He is 3 00:00:04,278 --> 00:00:06,278 the Chief technical Officer for U S 4 00:00:06,278 --> 00:00:08,560 Special Operations Command . Dr Taylor . 5 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,400 Good to have you with us . Thank you 6 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,020 for having me . Alright , let's get to 7 00:00:15,020 --> 00:00:18,160 the cloud multi cloud hybrid 8 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,430 environment that SOCOM has been working 9 00:00:20,430 --> 00:00:22,541 on for quite some time now . Where do 10 00:00:22,541 --> 00:00:24,652 you stand with it ? What does it look 11 00:00:24,652 --> 00:00:26,819 like and what are your immediate plans 12 00:00:26,819 --> 00:00:29,180 for it for the next year or so ? Let's 13 00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:33,010 let's start there . Sure . So like many 14 00:00:33,010 --> 00:00:35,177 different groups within the Department 15 00:00:35,177 --> 00:00:37,232 of Defense , especially in uh the US 16 00:00:37,232 --> 00:00:40,260 government , the reality of having just 17 00:00:40,260 --> 00:00:42,970 one vendors just not very realistic 18 00:00:42,970 --> 00:00:45,560 anymore . Um whether that be for the 19 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,727 fact that many different groups within 20 00:00:47,727 --> 00:00:50,240 different organizations had started at 21 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,129 different points in time and have 22 00:00:52,129 --> 00:00:54,540 different levels of majorities . So uh 23 00:00:54,550 --> 00:00:56,950 that being the steady state when I came 24 00:00:56,950 --> 00:00:59,940 here about 18 months ago there were 25 00:00:59,950 --> 00:01:02,270 multiple different groups within uh so 26 00:01:02,270 --> 00:01:04,492 come that had already begun their cloud 27 00:01:04,492 --> 00:01:06,659 journey . Uh So , you know , there's , 28 00:01:06,659 --> 00:01:09,030 there's , there's Azure from Microsoft , 29 00:01:09,030 --> 00:01:12,270 there's a DBS from Amazon . Um and 30 00:01:12,270 --> 00:01:14,326 there's uh others that we're looking 31 00:01:14,326 --> 00:01:16,740 into uh we're in discussions with 32 00:01:16,750 --> 00:01:20,700 Google , um , as well as Oracle . Uh 33 00:01:20,710 --> 00:01:24,450 And so what we did basically , once I 34 00:01:24,450 --> 00:01:26,980 got here was made the firm decision to 35 00:01:27,060 --> 00:01:29,300 try to provide , um , you know , an 36 00:01:29,300 --> 00:01:32,680 enterprise uh offering or at least 37 00:01:32,690 --> 00:01:35,590 corral them to some degree so that we 38 00:01:35,590 --> 00:01:38,990 could offer the different types of 39 00:01:38,990 --> 00:01:40,990 clouds that may be different impact 40 00:01:40,990 --> 00:01:43,010 levels so that different groups , 41 00:01:43,010 --> 00:01:45,300 whether they be T socks or components 42 00:01:45,530 --> 00:01:48,950 could consume through or with us 43 00:01:48,950 --> 00:01:52,820 versus , um have sanctioned shadow I T . 44 00:01:53,570 --> 00:01:56,920 Uh So where that is now is we've got , 45 00:01:56,930 --> 00:01:58,930 you know , you know , class and non 46 00:01:58,930 --> 00:02:01,152 class and that's kind of where I live , 47 00:02:01,152 --> 00:02:03,097 but uh you know , impact levels or 48 00:02:03,097 --> 00:02:05,208 different versions of the cloud which 49 00:02:05,208 --> 00:02:07,490 are air gapped , uh that we have , um 50 00:02:07,490 --> 00:02:11,130 we've got uh A T O so a lot of them are 51 00:02:11,140 --> 00:02:14,240 production ready and , um , 52 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,840 you know , we're now at the levels of 53 00:02:17,850 --> 00:02:20,072 working with the different customers to 54 00:02:20,072 --> 00:02:23,170 try to provide them . Um and onboarding . 55 00:02:23,180 --> 00:02:25,550 Uh and , you know , the reality is in 56 00:02:25,550 --> 00:02:27,550 terms of like , you know , how it's 57 00:02:27,550 --> 00:02:29,439 being used or how folks are , are 58 00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:31,606 getting along , uh like any group or , 59 00:02:31,606 --> 00:02:33,661 you know , if you have a family , uh 60 00:02:33,661 --> 00:02:35,772 there's different groups or different 61 00:02:35,772 --> 00:02:37,939 levels of maturity . So some folks are 62 00:02:37,939 --> 00:02:40,000 quite mature in their journey to the 63 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,580 cloud , getting after things every day . 64 00:02:42,590 --> 00:02:44,701 And then there's other folks that are 65 00:02:44,701 --> 00:02:47,100 just looking for the training wheels . 66 00:02:47,110 --> 00:02:50,700 And so we're working 67 00:02:50,710 --> 00:02:52,932 more heavily with the folks looking for 68 00:02:52,932 --> 00:02:54,877 the training wheels and then we're 69 00:02:54,877 --> 00:02:57,043 trying to support those folks that are 70 00:02:57,043 --> 00:02:59,210 already very mature in their journey . 71 00:02:59,210 --> 00:03:01,432 And would it be safe to say or accurate 72 00:03:01,432 --> 00:03:03,210 to say that given that military 73 00:03:03,210 --> 00:03:05,960 requirements for cloud computing tend 74 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,540 to be more rigorous in terms of safety , 75 00:03:08,540 --> 00:03:11,110 security secrecy than maybe the general 76 00:03:11,110 --> 00:03:13,430 government is so calm , kind of at the 77 00:03:13,430 --> 00:03:16,110 far edge of what D O D demands in terms 78 00:03:16,110 --> 00:03:18,277 of security , just given the nature of 79 00:03:18,277 --> 00:03:20,860 special forces and , and the shroud 80 00:03:20,860 --> 00:03:23,640 that tends to envelope it , right ? I 81 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,730 would say that obviously the federal 82 00:03:26,730 --> 00:03:28,508 government , specifically , the 83 00:03:28,508 --> 00:03:30,674 Department of Defense has to uh adhere 84 00:03:30,674 --> 00:03:33,710 to you no more stringent requirements . 85 00:03:33,710 --> 00:03:35,654 Then obviously a commercial entity 86 00:03:35,654 --> 00:03:38,240 would . Uh so that's the reason why if 87 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,462 you look at the fed ramp options of the 88 00:03:40,462 --> 00:03:42,760 cloud there , they have impact levels , 89 00:03:42,770 --> 00:03:44,826 right ? So , you know , impact level 90 00:03:44,826 --> 00:03:46,992 two would be , you know , the internet 91 00:03:46,992 --> 00:03:49,326 or regular internet that we use at home . 92 00:03:49,326 --> 00:03:51,790 Uh You know , then there's impact level 93 00:03:51,790 --> 00:03:53,957 four , which is now you're starting to 94 00:03:53,957 --> 00:03:56,385 get into government , uh government 95 00:03:56,385 --> 00:03:58,515 provided cloud offerings and then 96 00:03:58,515 --> 00:04:00,571 there's impact level five , which is 97 00:04:00,571 --> 00:04:02,459 now something that's specifically 98 00:04:02,459 --> 00:04:04,465 tailored and air gapped within the 99 00:04:04,465 --> 00:04:06,798 different cloud providers . Um you know , 100 00:04:06,798 --> 00:04:09,695 also provides us only citizens that 101 00:04:09,695 --> 00:04:12,705 would work on it in the background . Um 102 00:04:12,715 --> 00:04:15,620 and it's capable of providing nipper 103 00:04:15,620 --> 00:04:17,800 net capabilities . Uh But then the 104 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,870 cloud providers have also offered uh 105 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,936 you know , secret level clouds and , 106 00:04:22,936 --> 00:04:24,880 you know , they're working on , on 107 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,991 other things because the reality is , 108 00:04:27,470 --> 00:04:29,581 you know , agencies are going to take 109 00:04:29,581 --> 00:04:31,748 advantage of the capabilities that are 110 00:04:31,748 --> 00:04:34,026 out there and the federal government's , 111 00:04:34,026 --> 00:04:33,930 you know , making investments within 112 00:04:33,930 --> 00:04:37,690 the companies to try to gain access to 113 00:04:37,690 --> 00:04:40,023 this . So we , we definitely , you know , 114 00:04:40,023 --> 00:04:42,870 follow the fed ramp high and uh you 115 00:04:42,870 --> 00:04:46,040 know , the standards that are there and 116 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,207 then for things that are beyond that , 117 00:04:48,207 --> 00:04:51,200 then we utilize uh things like uh I C D 118 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,690 s or , you know , the former uh decides . 119 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:57,110 So things that are more along , I guess 120 00:04:57,110 --> 00:04:59,540 the intel framework and , you know , 121 00:04:59,540 --> 00:05:01,910 most of these can all be found on the 122 00:05:01,910 --> 00:05:04,170 internet . So , so definitely more 123 00:05:04,170 --> 00:05:07,040 stringent requirements , but we , we 124 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,151 take advantage of everything that's , 125 00:05:09,151 --> 00:05:11,120 that's there . So , uh you know , 126 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,064 whether it be traditional comms to 127 00:05:13,064 --> 00:05:17,010 cloud , uh you know , sack um R F , 128 00:05:17,010 --> 00:05:20,820 you know , uh five G A circuit carrier , 129 00:05:20,820 --> 00:05:22,876 pigeon smoke signals . Um You know , 130 00:05:22,876 --> 00:05:25,700 we're gonna use pretty much any form of 131 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:28,630 communication that you can imagine uh 132 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,807 to do what it is that we need to do or 133 00:05:30,807 --> 00:05:33,120 to coordinate uh with folks because at 134 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,120 the end of the day , it's all about 135 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,287 utilizing the tools that are available 136 00:05:37,287 --> 00:05:39,780 to you to get access to the thing , the 137 00:05:39,780 --> 00:05:42,250 widget , the surface , the experience , 138 00:05:42,250 --> 00:05:45,360 the data that you need . And let's talk 139 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,527 about the total cost of ownership that 140 00:05:47,527 --> 00:05:49,860 you're facing . How do you balance that ? 141 00:05:49,860 --> 00:05:51,971 Because no organization has unlimited 142 00:05:51,971 --> 00:05:54,027 money . And so you still got some on 143 00:05:54,027 --> 00:05:55,971 premise , compute , you've got the 144 00:05:55,971 --> 00:05:58,027 cloud instances that are expanding . 145 00:05:58,027 --> 00:05:59,790 How do you gauge total cost of 146 00:05:59,790 --> 00:06:02,012 ownership and how does that figure into 147 00:06:02,012 --> 00:06:04,068 your planning ? Right . So , I think 148 00:06:04,068 --> 00:06:07,210 that that's a very good , a good 149 00:06:07,210 --> 00:06:09,321 question . I think it's a penetrating 150 00:06:09,321 --> 00:06:11,488 question . I think it's one that needs 151 00:06:11,488 --> 00:06:13,599 to be explored more across , not just 152 00:06:13,599 --> 00:06:15,766 so calm D O D and , but the government 153 00:06:15,766 --> 00:06:19,010 at large and , and what I mean is in 154 00:06:19,010 --> 00:06:21,010 the government , as I'm sure you've 155 00:06:21,010 --> 00:06:22,732 probably heard or you may have 156 00:06:22,732 --> 00:06:25,370 experienced uh if you have a budget of 157 00:06:25,420 --> 00:06:29,410 $100 and uh next year because 158 00:06:29,410 --> 00:06:32,080 you were really working very stringent , 159 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,920 very hard being a good uh custodian of 160 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,920 taxpayer dollars . You were able to 161 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,190 meet your mission , but at $90 well , 162 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,290 what you get for your amazing work and 163 00:06:43,290 --> 00:06:45,457 teamwork and team building and , and , 164 00:06:45,457 --> 00:06:47,960 and ability to manage money well , and 165 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,290 saved the taxpayer is now that tells , 166 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:53,578 you know , the bean counters that , oh , 167 00:06:53,578 --> 00:06:55,744 well , you can get by with 90 . So the 168 00:06:55,744 --> 00:06:57,911 following year , you will only get $90 169 00:06:57,911 --> 00:07:00,280 because you just set your new normal or 170 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:02,447 85 . So you just set your new normal , 171 00:07:02,447 --> 00:07:04,724 right ? So instead of a high watermark , 172 00:07:04,724 --> 00:07:06,947 you're , you're now setting a low water 173 00:07:06,947 --> 00:07:09,830 mark for yourself . Um So , so 174 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,170 understand that that is , that is a 175 00:07:12,170 --> 00:07:14,240 thing . So if your budget is a , is 176 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,720 $100 , then you need to try to make 177 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,880 sure that you spend $100 . So 178 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,880 instead of looking for ways to 179 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,570 necessarily cut costs to make something 180 00:07:25,570 --> 00:07:28,160 cheaper , I think a better approach is 181 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,530 to look at cost avoidance . Right . So , 182 00:07:31,530 --> 00:07:34,400 how can I not spend more money ? So how 183 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,580 can I not spend 100 and $1 ? How can I 184 00:07:37,580 --> 00:07:39,691 not spend 100 and $5 ? How can I make 185 00:07:39,691 --> 00:07:42,140 sure I spend $100 ? And then if , 186 00:07:42,150 --> 00:07:44,317 because I'm a good , you know , have a 187 00:07:44,317 --> 00:07:46,261 fiduciary responsibility as a good 188 00:07:46,261 --> 00:07:48,600 custodian of taxpayer dollars . I 189 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,890 should naturally and my team of leaders 190 00:07:50,890 --> 00:07:53,001 should be naturally working to try to 191 00:07:53,001 --> 00:07:55,112 figure out how can I actually operate 192 00:07:55,112 --> 00:07:57,279 at $90 . Well , then what do I do with 193 00:07:57,279 --> 00:08:00,130 that other 10 ? Well , now that's money . 194 00:08:00,130 --> 00:08:02,040 And again , this is Mark Taylor's 195 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,250 perspective . This is not uh 196 00:08:04,260 --> 00:08:06,593 contracting offers officers perspective . 197 00:08:06,593 --> 00:08:08,960 This is not some person who actually 198 00:08:08,970 --> 00:08:11,210 obligates the government's money . I'm 199 00:08:11,210 --> 00:08:13,700 merely telling you my observation , You , 200 00:08:13,710 --> 00:08:15,877 you look at ways to how can I use that 201 00:08:15,877 --> 00:08:18,043 money for ? Now , things that I didn't 202 00:08:18,043 --> 00:08:20,266 normally have in my plan , right ? So I 203 00:08:20,266 --> 00:08:22,488 can maybe repurpose this money , this , 204 00:08:22,488 --> 00:08:25,430 this $10 out of the 100 that I didn't 205 00:08:25,430 --> 00:08:28,200 have for things today . So I was able 206 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,820 to rob Peter to pay Paul , I was able 207 00:08:30,820 --> 00:08:33,290 to squeeze the balloon . But now I have 208 00:08:33,290 --> 00:08:36,480 this $10 that I can now get after some 209 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,350 specific effort in fy 23 210 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,020 that I might have palmed for in fy 25 . 211 00:08:44,030 --> 00:08:46,560 So instead of coming up with a U for or 212 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:48,560 trying to figure out how to ask for 213 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:50,782 more money to get by for those next two 214 00:08:50,782 --> 00:08:53,310 years . Now , I can maybe use this $10 215 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,540 that I figured out how to acquire out 216 00:08:56,540 --> 00:08:59,510 of my $100 and now use that $10 for 217 00:08:59,510 --> 00:09:01,980 something else . I'm sure that I've 218 00:09:01,980 --> 00:09:03,960 probably broken some kind of crazy 219 00:09:03,970 --> 00:09:06,630 regulatory rule . Um But I'm saying 220 00:09:06,630 --> 00:09:09,130 that's kind of , you know , Mark 221 00:09:09,130 --> 00:09:11,740 Taylor's approach to it to try to make 222 00:09:11,740 --> 00:09:14,790 sure that I am being a good custodian 223 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,440 and providing a good faith effort to do 224 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,496 the right thing for the right reason 225 00:09:19,496 --> 00:09:21,496 with the taxpayer dollars that have 226 00:09:21,496 --> 00:09:23,384 been provided to me so that I can 227 00:09:23,384 --> 00:09:25,162 provide a service and a mission 228 00:09:25,162 --> 00:09:28,210 capability um to the command , but also 229 00:09:28,220 --> 00:09:32,180 to America at large . So , um so , 230 00:09:32,190 --> 00:09:34,270 so , so understand that that's the 231 00:09:34,270 --> 00:09:37,010 baseline thought process . Now , how 232 00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:39,232 does that actually become applicable to 233 00:09:39,232 --> 00:09:41,454 what we're trying to do ? Well , we try 234 00:09:41,454 --> 00:09:43,690 to get economy of scale . So uh some of 235 00:09:43,690 --> 00:09:45,912 the things that I've noticed across the 236 00:09:45,912 --> 00:09:47,968 command , whether it be , you know , 237 00:09:47,968 --> 00:09:50,190 marine special operations is doing this 238 00:09:50,190 --> 00:09:52,840 and army special operations is doing 239 00:09:52,850 --> 00:09:56,530 that . Um If I notice that they're both 240 00:09:56,540 --> 00:09:59,170 uh paying for the same kind of service , 241 00:09:59,770 --> 00:10:01,826 maybe we try to figure out how do we 242 00:10:01,826 --> 00:10:04,440 pay for that at the enterprise level 243 00:10:04,450 --> 00:10:07,890 and maybe get a discount um maybe get a 244 00:10:07,890 --> 00:10:10,001 two for one or something . So there's 245 00:10:10,001 --> 00:10:11,890 nothing wrong with trying to gain 246 00:10:11,890 --> 00:10:13,834 economies of scale , especially to 247 00:10:13,834 --> 00:10:15,946 which um offered . But we try to make 248 00:10:15,946 --> 00:10:18,168 sure that we're not paying for the same 249 00:10:18,168 --> 00:10:20,112 widget twice if we don't have to , 250 00:10:20,112 --> 00:10:22,112 especially when we could pay for it 251 00:10:22,112 --> 00:10:24,630 once and help two or more groups . So 252 00:10:24,630 --> 00:10:26,850 that's essentially how we would 253 00:10:26,850 --> 00:10:29,017 approach that . So I hope that answers 254 00:10:29,017 --> 00:10:31,150 your question . Um And then just to 255 00:10:31,150 --> 00:10:33,150 take one thing back to your earlier 256 00:10:33,150 --> 00:10:34,928 question about , you know , the 257 00:10:34,928 --> 00:10:37,150 stringent uh security requirements that 258 00:10:37,150 --> 00:10:39,317 we go through uh in special operations 259 00:10:39,317 --> 00:10:41,372 command relative to a regular user . 260 00:10:41,372 --> 00:10:43,539 Well , we use a push to talk Mike . So 261 00:10:43,539 --> 00:10:45,650 after every single time that I answer 262 00:10:45,650 --> 00:10:47,872 you with my hand , I have to depress on 263 00:10:47,872 --> 00:10:49,872 this button . So that when I'm done 264 00:10:49,872 --> 00:10:51,706 speaking , there will be no more 265 00:10:51,706 --> 00:10:53,872 electronic communication from my voice 266 00:10:53,872 --> 00:10:55,983 to you because we are so calm , we're 267 00:10:55,983 --> 00:10:58,261 special and we're here to help , right ? 268 00:10:58,261 --> 00:11:00,094 And that gets to the idea of the 269 00:11:00,094 --> 00:11:02,039 mission itself . And when you talk 270 00:11:02,039 --> 00:11:04,094 about budgeting and trying to make a 271 00:11:04,094 --> 00:11:06,206 dollar stretch further rather than to 272 00:11:06,206 --> 00:11:08,428 shrink the dollars expended so that you 273 00:11:08,428 --> 00:11:10,650 can get more functionality somehow that 274 00:11:10,650 --> 00:11:12,817 relates back to the mission . And so I 275 00:11:12,817 --> 00:11:14,983 wanted to ask you what are some of the 276 00:11:14,983 --> 00:11:17,150 unique challenges of special forces in 277 00:11:17,150 --> 00:11:19,150 the cloud ? And I'm guessing one of 278 00:11:19,150 --> 00:11:21,150 them is the fact that in the actual 279 00:11:21,150 --> 00:11:23,372 operation of special forces , when they 280 00:11:23,372 --> 00:11:25,539 are doing the nation's work . They are 281 00:11:25,539 --> 00:11:28,320 often in those environments deprived of 282 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,990 connectivity to a cloud contested , you 283 00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:33,430 mentioned smoke signals and pigeons and 284 00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:35,541 sometimes you can't reach back to the 285 00:11:35,541 --> 00:11:38,480 cloud at the front end of special 286 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,270 operations with high bandwidth 287 00:11:40,270 --> 00:11:42,492 satellite or whatever communications or 288 00:11:42,492 --> 00:11:44,603 maybe satellite . So what are some of 289 00:11:44,603 --> 00:11:47,430 the unique demands of special forces on 290 00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:51,260 cloud computing ? Sure . Um So as it is 291 00:11:51,270 --> 00:11:55,230 today , when we prosecute or do not 292 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,170 war , um we're normally doing those um 293 00:11:59,180 --> 00:12:02,600 not in Malibu or , or , or times square 294 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,560 or someplace nice . We're normally 295 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:08,100 doing it in , right ? We're 296 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:10,970 normally doing it in some austere part 297 00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:13,050 of the world . Um That's not 298 00:12:13,050 --> 00:12:15,600 necessarily hospitable . Um Usually 299 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,110 they're not happy that we're there or 300 00:12:18,110 --> 00:12:20,790 they tolerate us while we are . Um And 301 00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:24,160 so again , usually the places that we 302 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,740 would , would do our missions are also 303 00:12:26,750 --> 00:12:30,370 not uh the best infrastructures , right ? 304 00:12:30,380 --> 00:12:33,820 Uh like a desert or some crazy jungle , 305 00:12:33,830 --> 00:12:35,941 you know , places that don't natively 306 00:12:35,941 --> 00:12:39,800 have good connectivity . So the key is 307 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,967 to try to figure out what services you 308 00:12:41,967 --> 00:12:44,133 need and then take those services with 309 00:12:44,133 --> 00:12:45,920 you . Um And so we're all about 310 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,920 practicality , for example , um 311 00:12:49,930 --> 00:12:52,152 You see that I'm sharing an office with 312 00:12:52,152 --> 00:12:54,374 the chief engineer , special operations 313 00:12:54,374 --> 00:12:57,700 command C W five Ryland night and he's 314 00:12:57,700 --> 00:13:00,760 working right now and he just waved at , 315 00:13:00,770 --> 00:13:03,060 at real work for , for the taxpayer . 316 00:13:03,070 --> 00:13:05,860 Um So how do , how do you take the 317 00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:08,700 cloud with you Um Well , there are a 318 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:10,756 number of ways to do that . A lot of 319 00:13:10,756 --> 00:13:12,978 the services that we utilized , that we 320 00:13:12,978 --> 00:13:14,922 might build in the cloud if it's , 321 00:13:14,922 --> 00:13:17,089 especially if it's I S or some kind of 322 00:13:17,089 --> 00:13:19,256 past service As we look at , how do we 323 00:13:19,256 --> 00:13:20,922 gain the efficiencies of that 324 00:13:20,922 --> 00:13:24,100 technology and make it portable ? Um so 325 00:13:24,110 --> 00:13:26,166 everyone's heard of probably by this 326 00:13:26,166 --> 00:13:28,054 time over the last 20 years about 327 00:13:28,054 --> 00:13:30,054 virtual machines . Of'em . How do I 328 00:13:30,054 --> 00:13:31,943 trick a part of the computer into 329 00:13:31,943 --> 00:13:34,054 thinking that it's its own computer ? 330 00:13:34,054 --> 00:13:36,166 Another step beyond that is container 331 00:13:36,166 --> 00:13:38,530 ization . How do I take a container and 332 00:13:38,530 --> 00:13:41,070 basically containerized an application 333 00:13:41,070 --> 00:13:43,440 or a system or an experience ? Right ? 334 00:13:43,450 --> 00:13:45,940 How do I containerized X amount of data 335 00:13:45,940 --> 00:13:48,910 with Y amount of compute and the amount 336 00:13:48,910 --> 00:13:52,500 of front end or I O capability and make 337 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:54,722 that portable so that I can put it on a 338 00:13:54,722 --> 00:13:57,910 server , on a laptop , on a phone in 339 00:13:57,910 --> 00:14:00,260 the cloud , I can make that experience 340 00:14:00,260 --> 00:14:02,482 portable . So , you know , I think that 341 00:14:02,490 --> 00:14:05,950 using technologies like this um help us 342 00:14:05,950 --> 00:14:08,540 get after uh in some places in 343 00:14:08,540 --> 00:14:10,596 corporate America . That sounds like 344 00:14:10,596 --> 00:14:13,020 old hat in some of the bowels of the 345 00:14:13,020 --> 00:14:14,798 government that might seem like 346 00:14:14,798 --> 00:14:16,853 witchcraft . Uh But you know , those 347 00:14:16,853 --> 00:14:18,909 are some of the things that we would 348 00:14:18,909 --> 00:14:20,631 look at is how do we take this 349 00:14:20,631 --> 00:14:22,742 experience that we might currently be 350 00:14:22,742 --> 00:14:24,964 utilizing for the sake of efficiency of 351 00:14:24,964 --> 00:14:28,290 speed of scale of um lower cost . And , 352 00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:31,690 and you know , put all this , this hard 353 00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:33,770 question into the cloud and it will 354 00:14:33,770 --> 00:14:36,570 calculate an answer and I get my answer 355 00:14:36,570 --> 00:14:38,626 and based off of the answer I make a 356 00:14:38,626 --> 00:14:40,681 decision on if I'm gonna do a or I'm 357 00:14:40,681 --> 00:14:43,670 gonna do b well , now imagine taking 358 00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:45,960 that same capability . Do I need it to 359 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,380 be as powerful as the mighty gone Kya 360 00:14:48,380 --> 00:14:51,030 later ? Or can I have the mini 361 00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:53,330 calculator ? Right ? And just how do I 362 00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:55,460 take that make it an economy of scale 363 00:14:55,470 --> 00:14:57,990 and now put it into a container and put 364 00:14:57,990 --> 00:15:00,750 it on a smaller platform such as a 365 00:15:00,750 --> 00:15:03,490 smaller device that I can take with me . 366 00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:05,810 And now I have that capability with me 367 00:15:05,810 --> 00:15:08,560 wherever I go . And so again , that 368 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,782 should not be rocket science to anybody 369 00:15:10,782 --> 00:15:12,838 in modern day time . But essentially 370 00:15:12,838 --> 00:15:15,116 that those are some of the things that , 371 00:15:15,116 --> 00:15:17,690 that we look at . Um Now why do we do 372 00:15:17,690 --> 00:15:19,801 that ? Because we have the challenges 373 00:15:19,801 --> 00:15:22,760 of if I have to , you know , have a 374 00:15:22,770 --> 00:15:24,714 connection all the way back to the 375 00:15:24,714 --> 00:15:26,826 mothership , I might not get there or 376 00:15:26,826 --> 00:15:28,826 that might be a bad experience or I 377 00:15:28,826 --> 00:15:31,048 might not be able to get there at all . 378 00:15:31,048 --> 00:15:33,048 I might never be able to connect or 379 00:15:33,048 --> 00:15:35,048 never have that hope . So these are 380 00:15:35,048 --> 00:15:37,214 some of the things that we have really 381 00:15:37,214 --> 00:15:40,020 invested in continue to invest in . We 382 00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:42,242 continue to work with our cloud service 383 00:15:42,242 --> 00:15:44,298 providers to to look at ways to make 384 00:15:44,298 --> 00:15:46,298 that easy . So if there's service X 385 00:15:46,298 --> 00:15:49,930 that I like from cloud provider . Why 386 00:15:49,940 --> 00:15:52,610 that I could then take it as containers 387 00:15:52,610 --> 00:15:54,666 e and move forward with my time . So 388 00:15:54,666 --> 00:15:57,020 hopefully that makes sense . Yeah , I 389 00:15:57,020 --> 00:15:59,131 think there might be people that call 390 00:15:59,131 --> 00:16:01,131 it witchcraft . Some people call it 391 00:16:01,131 --> 00:16:02,964 edge computing in a disconnected 392 00:16:02,964 --> 00:16:05,180 environment . And then as to follow up 393 00:16:05,180 --> 00:16:07,402 on that , then given the learnings that 394 00:16:07,402 --> 00:16:09,624 could happen with the junior level , if 395 00:16:09,624 --> 00:16:11,847 you will calculate the engine that that 396 00:16:11,847 --> 00:16:13,791 is disconnected , but nevertheless 397 00:16:13,791 --> 00:16:15,847 useful in the field , this container 398 00:16:15,847 --> 00:16:17,624 with all the resources for that 399 00:16:17,624 --> 00:16:19,513 instance , then you can always re 400 00:16:19,513 --> 00:16:21,569 synchronize afterwards when there is 401 00:16:21,569 --> 00:16:23,791 connectivity and whatever new learnings 402 00:16:23,791 --> 00:16:26,013 or new data might have been garnered in 403 00:16:26,013 --> 00:16:28,530 that operation , then can be uploaded 404 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,910 to strengthen your algorithms for the 405 00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:34,800 next time . Yeah , I mean that that's 406 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,270 it in a nutshell . Um And , and a great 407 00:16:38,270 --> 00:16:41,010 part about just the whole edge 408 00:16:41,010 --> 00:16:43,920 computing . People think that you go to 409 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,031 the cloud and like you stay there and 410 00:16:46,031 --> 00:16:48,198 that's it . And it's a done deal . And 411 00:16:48,198 --> 00:16:50,198 just the reality is , is were , you 412 00:16:50,198 --> 00:16:52,420 know , multi cloud for choice , right ? 413 00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:54,642 Um I don't , very few places would have 414 00:16:54,642 --> 00:16:56,864 the money to put the app in as your Aws 415 00:16:56,864 --> 00:16:59,240 and Google all at the same time . I'm 416 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,351 sure that , you know , if there was a 417 00:17:01,351 --> 00:17:03,930 widget or you know , system or service 418 00:17:03,930 --> 00:17:07,500 that is so mission critical to , to us 419 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,170 national security , whatever you could 420 00:17:10,170 --> 00:17:12,392 pay to do that . Um That's , it's not a 421 00:17:12,392 --> 00:17:14,281 technical problem at all . It's a 422 00:17:14,281 --> 00:17:16,503 financial cost , political , whatever , 423 00:17:16,503 --> 00:17:18,392 you know , the constraint , maybe 424 00:17:18,392 --> 00:17:20,503 reason , you know , the reality , you 425 00:17:20,503 --> 00:17:22,726 know , normally you would put something 426 00:17:22,726 --> 00:17:24,892 in cloud X and it normally stays there 427 00:17:24,892 --> 00:17:27,059 and you would probably only move it if 428 00:17:27,059 --> 00:17:29,003 there was a compelling need , some 429 00:17:29,003 --> 00:17:31,170 significant emotional event . Um , but 430 00:17:31,170 --> 00:17:33,059 outside of that you normally keep 431 00:17:33,059 --> 00:17:36,530 things , uh , where they are . 432 00:17:36,540 --> 00:17:39,740 Now , people think that when you come 433 00:17:39,740 --> 00:17:42,470 in to a socom or D O D that , you know , 434 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,591 there's a new sheriff in town , we're 435 00:17:44,591 --> 00:17:46,591 trying to get things to the cloud . 436 00:17:46,591 --> 00:17:48,702 We're gonna try to extract more value 437 00:17:48,702 --> 00:17:48,540 out of it so that it's not the science 438 00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:51,410 project , right ? It's actually a tool 439 00:17:51,410 --> 00:17:54,330 that's providing value on a daily basis . 440 00:17:54,340 --> 00:17:57,490 Well , they think that you're gonna be 441 00:17:57,500 --> 00:17:59,770 cloud and cloud only . Well , if you're 442 00:17:59,770 --> 00:18:01,937 not serious about going to the cloud , 443 00:18:01,937 --> 00:18:04,048 if you're not serious about providing 444 00:18:04,048 --> 00:18:06,048 and extracting value from the cloud 445 00:18:06,048 --> 00:18:08,810 services that you've invested in , um , 446 00:18:09,340 --> 00:18:11,229 then you're never gonna get there 447 00:18:11,229 --> 00:18:13,562 because if you keep saying we're hybrid , 448 00:18:13,562 --> 00:18:15,673 which we are , well , some people are 449 00:18:15,673 --> 00:18:17,784 gonna hear . Well , that means I'm on 450 00:18:17,784 --> 00:18:20,510 prem . Well , yes , your on prem and 451 00:18:20,510 --> 00:18:23,050 you're in the cloud . So by being a 452 00:18:23,060 --> 00:18:25,171 cloud first , that means you're going 453 00:18:25,171 --> 00:18:28,670 to the cloud . But as you buy new 454 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,090 on prem gear , you need to make sure 455 00:18:32,090 --> 00:18:35,830 that you are buying on prem gear that 456 00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:39,660 can look and feel just like your cloud 457 00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:42,900 experience , right ? So that's the 458 00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:45,930 critical difference . So that as we do 459 00:18:45,940 --> 00:18:48,560 edge computing , you know , I've often 460 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,616 said we got to go to the cloud so we 461 00:18:50,616 --> 00:18:52,560 can go back on prem . I have to be 462 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,393 serious and understand how to do 463 00:18:54,393 --> 00:18:56,171 everything in a cloud . Have to 464 00:18:56,171 --> 00:18:58,227 understand devops , devops , Cops is 465 00:18:58,227 --> 00:19:00,338 the way to do things . So that when I 466 00:19:00,338 --> 00:19:03,180 have newer on prem purpose built gear , 467 00:19:03,770 --> 00:19:05,990 it , the experience is the same . That 468 00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:08,212 way I have one skill set . I don't have 469 00:19:08,212 --> 00:19:10,434 to have a bunch of server huggers and a 470 00:19:10,434 --> 00:19:12,657 bunch of cloud Bubba's , I can have one 471 00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:16,400 operating force that knows how to work . 472 00:19:16,410 --> 00:19:18,521 And the only way that they would know 473 00:19:18,521 --> 00:19:20,688 that the experience is being served on 474 00:19:20,688 --> 00:19:22,688 prim is if maybe they looked at the 475 00:19:22,688 --> 00:19:24,688 login or they looked at the name of 476 00:19:24,688 --> 00:19:26,910 what they connected to , but the user 477 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,480 in consuming a resource or a service or 478 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,220 having an experience should , should 479 00:19:32,220 --> 00:19:34,387 not even know , should not care . They 480 00:19:34,387 --> 00:19:36,710 should just be able to connect and get 481 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,250 access to service . Alright . That 482 00:19:39,250 --> 00:19:41,361 makes a lot of sense actually . And I 483 00:19:41,361 --> 00:19:43,528 think it ties into what we spoke about 484 00:19:43,528 --> 00:19:45,583 a few minutes ago and that is in the 485 00:19:45,583 --> 00:19:47,306 environments where there is no 486 00:19:47,306 --> 00:19:49,528 connectivity . That experience is as if 487 00:19:49,528 --> 00:19:51,520 people were connected . And so 488 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,464 therefore , the hybrid is really a 489 00:19:53,464 --> 00:19:55,298 necessary condition and not just 490 00:19:55,298 --> 00:19:57,353 something as a talking point . And I 491 00:19:57,353 --> 00:19:59,500 guess this is about cyber security 492 00:19:59,510 --> 00:20:01,360 because there are different 493 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:04,270 cybersecurity regimes needed for being 494 00:20:04,270 --> 00:20:06,381 online , being in the cloud and going 495 00:20:06,381 --> 00:20:08,381 back and forth and at the edge when 496 00:20:08,381 --> 00:20:10,492 you're maybe limited connectivity and 497 00:20:10,492 --> 00:20:12,270 so forth . So , talk about your 498 00:20:12,270 --> 00:20:14,326 cybersecurity requirements and , and 499 00:20:14,326 --> 00:20:17,020 how you meet them . Sure . So , uh 500 00:20:17,030 --> 00:20:19,197 cyber security , uh you know , is , is 501 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,760 it's uniform from the sense that 502 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,140 there's a uniform , everybody's job is 503 00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:26,930 cybersecurity . Everybody is a cyber uh 504 00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:29,040 person and , and , and hopefully one 505 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,151 day everyone will be a cyber expert . 506 00:20:31,151 --> 00:20:33,373 It just needs to be part of who you are 507 00:20:33,373 --> 00:20:35,730 and what you do um see something , say 508 00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:37,900 something outside of that . There are 509 00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:39,956 multiple levels , multiple different 510 00:20:39,956 --> 00:20:42,011 teams um which I won't get into here 511 00:20:42,011 --> 00:20:43,789 that are providing Overwatch at 512 00:20:43,789 --> 00:20:46,960 different levels . Um So security is 513 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,182 baked into everything , whether it be , 514 00:20:49,182 --> 00:20:51,238 you know , the the application , the 515 00:20:51,238 --> 00:20:53,930 container , the network , the the os 516 00:20:53,940 --> 00:20:56,220 every single thing , there's security , 517 00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:58,442 there's zero trust in terms of how am I 518 00:20:58,442 --> 00:21:00,331 securing my identities , how am I 519 00:21:00,331 --> 00:21:02,498 securing my connections based on I can 520 00:21:02,498 --> 00:21:04,980 based that gets me to zero trust . Um 521 00:21:04,990 --> 00:21:07,268 Then it gets into a data centric model . 522 00:21:07,268 --> 00:21:09,379 Um In which case , now I have to have 523 00:21:09,379 --> 00:21:11,546 labeling and tagging of all of my data 524 00:21:11,546 --> 00:21:13,657 so that I can match the right role of 525 00:21:13,657 --> 00:21:15,712 the right I can model to that tag so 526 00:21:15,712 --> 00:21:17,768 that they have the permissions based 527 00:21:17,768 --> 00:21:20,080 off of zero trust . So cyber security 528 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,980 can become a huge thing in terms 529 00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:27,920 of making sure that cyber security is 530 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,370 a part of every aspect of what it is 531 00:21:30,370 --> 00:21:32,850 that we do . There are multiple teams 532 00:21:33,180 --> 00:21:35,670 that provide Overwatch at different 533 00:21:35,670 --> 00:21:37,990 levels . We , we follow all of the 534 00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:40,230 guidelines of all of the stipulations 535 00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:42,680 relative to the impact level , whether 536 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,791 beyond classified , classified higher 537 00:21:44,791 --> 00:21:48,090 levels of classification . Um Then 538 00:21:48,090 --> 00:21:51,110 there are local rules that we follow 539 00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:53,221 and that's the thing . There's always 540 00:21:53,221 --> 00:21:55,110 some government mandate from some 541 00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:57,380 government organization and then you 542 00:21:57,380 --> 00:21:59,680 get to the agency will say DHS , 543 00:21:59,690 --> 00:22:02,020 there's DHS level security that you 544 00:22:02,020 --> 00:22:04,020 must follow . Then let's say you go 545 00:22:04,020 --> 00:22:06,730 down to CBB there , CBP has their 546 00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:08,840 things . So you take that and 547 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,710 extrapolate that to , you know , D O D . 548 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,750 Uh So there's always some other level , 549 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,020 uh you know , I'm trying to think about 550 00:22:17,020 --> 00:22:19,242 what I can really talk about that would 551 00:22:19,242 --> 00:22:21,242 be , that would be open . But , but 552 00:22:21,242 --> 00:22:23,353 essentially it's following all of the 553 00:22:23,353 --> 00:22:25,353 published guidelines that you would 554 00:22:25,353 --> 00:22:27,520 find , you know , on , on the internet 555 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,631 uh that you would think of . And then 556 00:22:29,631 --> 00:22:31,631 after that , it becomes a matter of 557 00:22:31,631 --> 00:22:33,687 best practice also by the vendor and 558 00:22:33,687 --> 00:22:35,909 then there's guidance provided by other 559 00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:35,850 intelligence agencies , like make sure 560 00:22:35,850 --> 00:22:37,850 that you don't do this or do that . 561 00:22:37,850 --> 00:22:40,420 Okay , again , all of that gets added 562 00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:43,120 to now , the local S O P standard 563 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:45,287 operating procedure , you know , so we 564 00:22:45,287 --> 00:22:47,680 would do these things and then you have 565 00:22:47,690 --> 00:22:49,990 uh accreditation , so you have to get 566 00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:52,120 an authorization to operate . Uh So 567 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:54,231 before you actually connect or you do 568 00:22:54,231 --> 00:22:56,287 anything , you would have what it is 569 00:22:56,287 --> 00:22:58,540 that you're trying to do um reviewed 570 00:22:58,550 --> 00:23:01,550 the process and then once you meet all 571 00:23:01,550 --> 00:23:03,606 of those , you would document it and 572 00:23:03,606 --> 00:23:05,717 then you would have an Overwatch that 573 00:23:05,717 --> 00:23:05,710 would look at it from that point 574 00:23:05,710 --> 00:23:08,050 forward . So I hope that makes sense . 575 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,424 Yeah , and I guess you have strong 576 00:23:10,424 --> 00:23:12,424 passwords and all that kind of good 577 00:23:12,424 --> 00:23:15,530 stuff , too fair to say . Alright , on 578 00:23:15,530 --> 00:23:17,586 that note , we're gonna take a short 579 00:23:17,586 --> 00:23:19,474 break . My guest today is Dr Mark 580 00:23:19,474 --> 00:23:21,419 Taylor , he is the chief technical 581 00:23:21,419 --> 00:23:23,363 officer for U S Special Operations 582 00:23:23,363 --> 00:23:25,308 Command . We're gonna take a short 583 00:23:25,308 --> 00:23:27,308 break . We'll be back soon . You're 584 00:23:27,308 --> 00:23:29,530 listening to the Federal news network D 585 00:23:29,530 --> 00:23:31,130 O D Cloud Exchange . I'm Tom Timon .