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This , the subcommittee on Europe , the 

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House Foreign Affairs Committee will 

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come to order the purpose of this 

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hearing is to discuss us policy towards 

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Europe and NATO as well as us and 

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allied support to Ukraine in advance of 

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the July NATO leaders summit . I now 

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recognize myself for an opening 

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statement next month in Vilnius NATO 

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members , states will meet to discuss 

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the greatest and most pressing 

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challenges facing the alliance with the 

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largest land war in Europe since world 

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war two go ongoing a rising and 

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increasingly aggressive China and 

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Finland and hopefully Sweden joining 

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the alliance , there will be no 

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shortage of issues to discuss . There 

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is strong bipartisan support in 

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Congress for NATO for decades . NATO 

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has served as a cornerstone of American 

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national security and underpinned our 

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relationship with our closest friends 

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and trade partners in Europe . All of 

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us in this room remember our NATO 

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allies came together in America's 

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defense in the aftermath of the 9 11 

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attacks , which was the first and only 

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time that NATO'S article five was ever 

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invoked on Ukraine . I firmly believe 

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that NATO allies must leave the summon 

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Villus with a clear path charted for 

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Ukraine to join the alliance once 

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conditions allow , I am concerned by 

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reporting that the US and Germany are 

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resistant to the alliances , making a 

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stronger political commitment to 

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Ukraine . One that's 15 years overdue 

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at the 2008 NATO leaders summit in 

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Bucharest , all NATO allies agreed that 

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Ukraine would become a member of NATO . 

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Since then , NATO has only repeated 

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that vague promise again and again , 

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in that time , we've learned that NATO 

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waiting game , waiting room is not a 

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safe place to be . Ukraine has 

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repeatedly suffered overt and covert 

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aggression from Russia now including a 

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full scale war of national survival . 

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Federal NATO membership is the most 

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solid guarantee against future Russian 

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aggression . Providing a clear path to 

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that membership will signal to Vladimir 

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Putin that he will not be able to 

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achieve his goals in Ukraine on the 

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battlefield . This is critical to prove 

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to him that Russia cannot outlast 

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Ukraine's backers nor determine the 

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sovereign foreign policy decisions of 

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his neighbors through war until Ukraine 

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is a full fledged member of NATO . It 

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will require concrete security 

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guarantees to help win the current war 

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and deter any future Russian aggression . 

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I believe the United States must be 

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actively involved in these discussions . 

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But implementing such guarantees will 

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require Congress to appropriate the 

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necessary funds as such . The 

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administration must engage with this 

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committee and this chamber on strategy 

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to allow us to conduct our 

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constitutionally mandated oversight 

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responsibilities . Importantly , like 

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with Israel , the guarantees under the 

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consideration will include uh continued 

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and reliable security assistance for 

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years to come , to ensure that Ukraine 

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can deter future Russian aggression . 

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Therefore , I'm glad to have a SD 

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Cooper here to discuss the weapons . 

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Ukraine needs not only to defeat 

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Putin's invading forces , but also to 

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ensure that we don't have a repeat of 

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2014 and 20,022 once 

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Putin's regime rebuilds its forces . In 

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addition , I hope to hear from both of 

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our witnesses and why the 

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administration has refused to provide 

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Ukraine with critical weapon systems 

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that could make a real difference on 

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the battlefield like attack comes and 

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picks . In fact , just yesterday , this 

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committee passed my bipartisan 

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resolution calling for the immediate 

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transfer of attacks to Ukraine . I was 

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honored to be joined in that effort by 

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ranking member Keating a true ally in 

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this fight beyond Ukraine . There's 

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great hope that NATO allies will agree 

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at next month's summit to make a firm 

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commence on burden sharing , namely by 

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clarifying that nato's defense spending 

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target of 2% of GDP should be 

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considered a floor and not a ceiling . 

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This 2% target was first agreed to by 

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all NATO allies in the summit of 2014 , 

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nearly a decade ago . Yet , even as the 

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threats from Russia and China grow 

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every day , there are still far too 

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many NATO allies that failed to meet 

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this target . Expect to hear from Mr 

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Jones about the US plans to press our 

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allies at next month's summit to live 

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up to their commitments and to share 

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the burden of collective security . 

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Speaking of China , the strategic 

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concept , the NATO released last year 

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said quote , the People's Republic of 

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China stated ambitions and coercive 

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policies challenge our interest , 

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security and values . It is vitally 

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important that our NATO allies 

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recognize and address the threat posed 

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to all of us by the CCP . Our 

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security will be at serious risk . We 

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allow China to own our critical 

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infrastructure , infiltrate our , our 

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sense of industries and to expand its 

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influence to pursue its malign agenda . 

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Lastly , I hope Mr Jones stay can 

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provide an update on Sweden's efforts 

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to join the alliance . I was pleased 

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that NATO welcomed Finland at its as 

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its 31st member in April , but Sweden's 

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applications has remained stalled for 

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far too long . Turkey and Hungary 

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stonewalling is deeply concerning and I 

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hope that they will ratify this very 

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capable partner to join this alliance 

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by the summit next month . I wanna once 

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again , thank thank our witnesses for 

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being with us today . And with that , 

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I'll now turn to ranking member Keating 

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for his opening remarks . Thank you , 

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Mr Chairman for holding this important 

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hearing uh as has been proven by the 

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bipartisan interest in this hearing , 

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congressional support for NATO and 

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Ukraine remains steadfast . Uh I look 

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forward to continuing to work with you 

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on these issues as we have with the 

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recent resolution . We introduced a 

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calling subject to uh our own readiness 

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needs . Calling for the president to 

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provide attacks to Ukraine which I hope 

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will see the floor soon . I also want 

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to thank the witnesses for your 

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tireless efforts to support Ukraine in 

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their fight for freedom against Russian 

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aggression . Together along with our 

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colleagues across the US government , 

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you work to provide Ukraine with the 

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military , economic and humanitarian 

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support . They need to win the war and 

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to secure their future . In response to 

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Vladimir Putin's criminal war and 

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illegal occupation of Ukraine . The 

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Biden administration has coordinated uh 

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more than 50 country response with 

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transatlantic alliances as well and our 

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own global partners . Uh to this effort 

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through these efforts , like-minded 

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partners have worked to support Ukraine 

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on the battlefield , providing safe 

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haven for those fleeing violence at 

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home . And and also to ensure that 

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vital governmental and community 

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services from schools to hospitals 

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through their own utilities can 

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literally keep the lights on as part of 

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these ongoing efforts . Leaders from 

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across the NATO Alliance will meet in 

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this next month to discuss current and 

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future challenges as well as the steps 

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we must take together to ensure our 

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collective security . One such step 

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which I believe is vital is the swift 

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approval of Sweden's ascension to the 

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into the alliance . Last Congress I 

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introduced legislation that welcomed 

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the as accession of Sweden and Finland 

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into NATO two countries that have 

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incredible military might . Uh And that 

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are inter operable already with our 

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alliance . This legislation passed with 

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bipartisan support and I'm glad that 

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Finland is now squarely in line for 

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NATO . And today , uh while I am 

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encouraged by the Hungarian Parliament 

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and the fact that they have scheduled a 

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vote on the matter , I continue to call 

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on Hungarian and Turkish allies to 

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approve their application expeditiously . 

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I hope Sweden's membership will be 

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approved soon to ensure we remain 

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united in our response to Russia's 

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aggression in Ukraine . In addition , I 

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believe that NATO members must recommit 

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to increase defense spending in 

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response to Vladimir Putin's 

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increasingly aggressive posturing . 

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Vladimir Putin has already made his 

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imperialistic fantasies known when in a 

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series of letters and memos exchanged 

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between the US and Russia . Prior to 

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the full scale invasion of Ukraine , 

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Russia request that the US prevent 

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further eastward expansion of NATO and 

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and disarming 50% of the current NATO 

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country's capabilities and also making 

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direct threats to members of the 

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alliance . We must take these threats 

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seriously to deter Russian aggression 

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while many NATO countries have 

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succeeded in reaching 2% . We must now 

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view this goal as a floor rather than a 

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ceiling . I also look forward to 

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discussions at the Wildness Summit 

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regarding Ukraine's continued progress 

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towards NATO ascension . Much has 

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already been said and discussed on the 

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topic and Ukraine has clearly surpassed 

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the security relationship that would 

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traditionally warrant a membership 

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action plan while discussions are 

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ongoing . I've been clear that after 

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this war is over , Ukraine will emerge 

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as one of if not one of the strongest , 

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the second strongest , most well 

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equipped military in Europe . We must 

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show unity at the Villa summit and I 

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remain confident that NATO allies will 

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continue to use the vast resources of 

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our historic alliance to ensure 

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Ukraine's self defense . The European 

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Union has also stepped up as of May 

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23rd , providing over $78 billion in 

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financial military humanitarian and 

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refugee assistance . This includes over 

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$41 billion in financial and budgetary 

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support , 18 billion in support of 

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Ukrainian refugees and over 18 billion 

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in military assistance such as 

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ammunition and air defenses , leopard 

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tanks and fighter jets . The eu is also 

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currently the largest military training 

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provider to the Ukrainian armed forces 

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and will have trained more than 30,000 

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Ukrainian military personnel by the end 

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of the year to conclude , I want to 

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briefly address China in the Indo 

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Pacific having served in the 

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subcommittee for many years . Now , 

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I've always believed that while Russia 

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poses the greatest risk to our 

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collective security today , in the long 

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term , China represents the great 

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threat to our alliance . We must 

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consider our relationship with China 

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derisk wherever possible and bring 

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critical supply chains back home . We 

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must also invest in our partnership in 

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the Indo Pacific providing an 

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alternative democratic way forward with 

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like minding partners . Unfortunately , 

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as the war in Ukraine is at a pivotal 

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00:10:50,951 --> 00:10:53,539
stage and China priori prioritizes 

279
00:10:53,549 --> 00:10:55,549
their foreign assistance budget and 

280
00:10:55,549 --> 00:10:57,549
increase increases their diplomatic 

281
00:10:57,549 --> 00:10:59,789
expenditures by 12% . In the coming 

282
00:10:59,799 --> 00:11:02,021
year . Republican House leadership have 

283
00:11:02,021 --> 00:11:05,090
proposed a 22% budget cut of us foreign 

284
00:11:05,099 --> 00:11:07,520
assistance . Well , I know my 

285
00:11:07,530 --> 00:11:09,697
Republican colleagues recognize Russia 

286
00:11:09,697 --> 00:11:11,752
and China as a threat . Their budget 

287
00:11:11,752 --> 00:11:14,000
says otherwise with that , I want to 

288
00:11:14,010 --> 00:11:16,232
thank our witnesses for joining us here 

289
00:11:16,232 --> 00:11:18,343
today in this timely discussion and I 

290
00:11:18,343 --> 00:11:21,950
yield back . Thank you . Thank you 

291
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,919
member Keating uh two quick procedural 

292
00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:27,869
motions . The first is I ask your name , 

293
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:29,713
his consent . The gentleman from 

294
00:11:29,713 --> 00:11:31,824
Pennsylvania , Mr Fitzpatrick and the 

295
00:11:31,824 --> 00:11:33,880
gentleman from Ohio . Mr Turner , be 

296
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:35,547
allowed to sit on the dia and 

297
00:11:35,547 --> 00:11:37,769
participate following all other members 

298
00:11:37,769 --> 00:11:40,330
in today's hearing without objection . 

299
00:11:40,340 --> 00:11:43,030
So ordered . Second , I would like to 

300
00:11:43,039 --> 00:11:45,206
welcome the gentleman in Virginia , Mr 

301
00:11:45,206 --> 00:11:46,983
Connolly and the gentleman from 

302
00:11:46,983 --> 00:11:49,039
Illinois Mr Schneider for joining us 

303
00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:51,261
today . They will participate following 

304
00:11:51,261 --> 00:11:53,428
all other members in today's hearing . 

305
00:11:55,340 --> 00:11:57,451
Other members of the subcommittee are 

306
00:11:57,451 --> 00:11:59,673
reminded that opening statements may be 

307
00:11:59,673 --> 00:12:01,507
submitted for the record . We're 

308
00:12:01,507 --> 00:12:03,618
pleased to have a distinguished panel 

309
00:12:03,618 --> 00:12:05,673
of witnesses before us today on this 

310
00:12:05,673 --> 00:12:07,784
important topic . Mr Douglas Jones is 

311
00:12:07,784 --> 00:12:09,673
Deputy Assistant Secretary in the 

312
00:12:09,673 --> 00:12:11,896
Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs 

313
00:12:11,896 --> 00:12:13,951
at the Department of State and he is 

314
00:12:13,951 --> 00:12:16,118
joined by MS Laura Cooper , who is the 

315
00:12:16,118 --> 00:12:18,229
Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense 

316
00:12:18,229 --> 00:12:20,451
for Russia , Ukraine and Eurasia at the 

317
00:12:20,451 --> 00:12:22,618
Department of Defense . Thank you both 

318
00:12:22,618 --> 00:12:24,729
for being here . Your full statements 

319
00:12:24,729 --> 00:12:26,896
will be made part of the record . I'll 

320
00:12:26,896 --> 00:12:26,320
ask each of you to keep your verbal 

321
00:12:26,330 --> 00:12:29,059
remarks to five minutes in order to 

322
00:12:29,070 --> 00:12:31,292
allow for time for member questions . I 

323
00:12:31,292 --> 00:12:33,459
now recognize Mr Jones for his opening 

324
00:12:33,459 --> 00:12:34,459
statement . 

325
00:12:37,510 --> 00:12:39,843
Chairman Kaine , ranking member Keating , 

326
00:12:40,119 --> 00:12:42,341
thank you for the invitation to testify 

327
00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:44,700
and for the committee's support for 

328
00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:47,140
NATO . Your bipartisan leadership and 

329
00:12:47,150 --> 00:12:49,179
engagement including in the NATO 

330
00:12:49,190 --> 00:12:51,469
parliamentary Assembly reminds our 

331
00:12:51,479 --> 00:12:53,146
allies that the United States 

332
00:12:53,146 --> 00:12:55,250
commitment to NATO remains robust , 

333
00:12:55,260 --> 00:12:58,960
durable and unwavering Russia's 

334
00:12:58,969 --> 00:13:01,150
brutal full scale invasion of Ukraine 

335
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,179
following its previous nine year 

336
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:05,134
campaign of aggression and illegal 

337
00:13:05,134 --> 00:13:07,650
occupation of Crimea has reaffirmed the 

338
00:13:07,659 --> 00:13:09,159
critical importance of the 

339
00:13:09,159 --> 00:13:11,000
transatlantic alliance . It has 

340
00:13:11,010 --> 00:13:14,270
galvanized allied unity driven allies 

341
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,113
to enhance the defense of allied 

342
00:13:16,113 --> 00:13:18,002
territory and strengthened allied 

343
00:13:18,002 --> 00:13:20,169
commitment to the democratic values on 

344
00:13:20,169 --> 00:13:22,770
which the alliance is built at the NATO 

345
00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:25,369
summit in Vilnius in July . Allies will 

346
00:13:25,380 --> 00:13:27,269
take decisions to strengthen NATO 

347
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:29,436
across three broad areas . I'd like to 

348
00:13:29,436 --> 00:13:31,460
speak to each briefly . 

349
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,090
First we will see in Vilnius , a strong 

350
00:13:36,099 --> 00:13:39,190
United NATO allies will reinforce our 

351
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,109
unity and resolve to support Ukraine in 

352
00:13:42,119 --> 00:13:44,230
the fight to defend its sovereignty , 

353
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:46,539
territorial integrity , democracy and 

354
00:13:46,549 --> 00:13:49,179
the right to choose its own path . At 

355
00:13:49,260 --> 00:13:51,580
Vilnius NATO will commit to a package 

356
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:53,757
of political and practical support for 

357
00:13:53,757 --> 00:13:55,479
Ukraine that will build on our 

358
00:13:55,479 --> 00:13:57,534
bilateral support . Over the past 16 

359
00:13:57,534 --> 00:14:00,929
months . Since February 2022 the United 

360
00:14:00,940 --> 00:14:02,829
States has provided more than $40 

361
00:14:02,829 --> 00:14:04,690
billion in bilateral security 

362
00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:07,219
assistance to Ukraine . More than 50 

363
00:14:07,229 --> 00:14:10,130
other nations including our NATO allies 

364
00:14:10,140 --> 00:14:12,307
acting bilaterally through the Ukraine 

365
00:14:12,307 --> 00:14:14,307
Defense contact group have provided 

366
00:14:14,307 --> 00:14:16,700
Ukraine with approximately 32 billion 

367
00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:20,020
in lethal aid . NATO itself has 

368
00:14:20,030 --> 00:14:22,039
complimented this bilateral lethal 

369
00:14:22,049 --> 00:14:24,369
assistance to Ukraine's military with 

370
00:14:24,380 --> 00:14:27,229
non lethal support totalling $82 

371
00:14:27,239 --> 00:14:30,140
million with another 110 million in the 

372
00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:32,239
pipeline to nato's comprehensive 

373
00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:35,710
assistance package for Ukraine and more 

374
00:14:35,719 --> 00:14:39,159
support is on the way . Second , 

375
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,102
NATO will strengthen its deterrence and 

376
00:14:42,102 --> 00:14:44,102
defense in support of our iron clad 

377
00:14:44,102 --> 00:14:46,789
article five obligations . Allies are 

378
00:14:46,799 --> 00:14:49,159
completing the full implementation of 

379
00:14:49,169 --> 00:14:51,500
nato's new fit for purpose force model 

380
00:14:51,580 --> 00:14:53,691
to fortify the alliance's readiness , 

381
00:14:54,330 --> 00:14:56,386
working to deepen defense production 

382
00:14:56,450 --> 00:14:58,739
and updating defense plans for all 

383
00:14:58,750 --> 00:15:00,917
allied territory that will address the 

384
00:15:00,917 --> 00:15:02,917
heightened threat on nato's eastern 

385
00:15:02,917 --> 00:15:05,840
flank and the new land , sea , air 

386
00:15:05,849 --> 00:15:07,960
cyber and space security challenges . 

387
00:15:09,299 --> 00:15:11,077
The alliance is also working to 

388
00:15:11,077 --> 00:15:12,743
strengthen the whales defense 

389
00:15:12,743 --> 00:15:14,743
investment pledge which states that 

390
00:15:14,743 --> 00:15:16,577
allies aim to spend 2% of GDP on 

391
00:15:16,577 --> 00:15:20,359
defense by 2024 . As of today , eight 

392
00:15:20,369 --> 00:15:22,799
allies are meeting or exceeding the 2% 

393
00:15:22,809 --> 00:15:26,190
target . Another nine are on track to 

394
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,130
do so . By next year , 2023 will mark 

395
00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:32,251
the ninth consecutive year of defense 

396
00:15:32,251 --> 00:15:34,362
spending growth in real terms for non 

397
00:15:34,362 --> 00:15:38,229
US allies with more than $350 billion 

398
00:15:38,239 --> 00:15:40,350
in additional defense spending by non 

399
00:15:40,350 --> 00:15:44,080
us allies since 2014 . But 

400
00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:46,940
this is not enough allies need to do 

401
00:15:46,950 --> 00:15:49,710
more and allies will commit to a new 

402
00:15:49,719 --> 00:15:51,830
enhanced defense investment pledge in 

403
00:15:51,830 --> 00:15:55,250
Vilnius . Finally , even as NATO sees 

404
00:15:55,260 --> 00:15:57,204
Russia as the most significant and 

405
00:15:57,204 --> 00:15:59,369
direct threat to security , peace and 

406
00:15:59,380 --> 00:16:02,190
stability in the Euro Atlantic area . 

407
00:16:02,609 --> 00:16:05,419
NATO faces other challenges . The PRC 

408
00:16:05,450 --> 00:16:08,390
first among them , this brings me to my 

409
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,960
third point at Vilnius . NATO intends 

410
00:16:10,969 --> 00:16:13,080
to strengthen its global partnerships 

411
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,025
in the Indo Pacific and the global 

412
00:16:15,025 --> 00:16:17,191
South . For the second time , heads of 

413
00:16:17,191 --> 00:16:19,309
state from Australia , Japan , New 

414
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,219
Zealand and South Korea have been 

415
00:16:21,229 --> 00:16:23,396
invited to a NATO summit to coordinate 

416
00:16:23,396 --> 00:16:25,618
on shared security challenges including 

417
00:16:25,618 --> 00:16:29,549
the PRC at NATO'S 1949 inception 

418
00:16:29,559 --> 00:16:31,729
here in Washington , President Truman 

419
00:16:31,739 --> 00:16:33,795
called the alliance a shield against 

420
00:16:33,795 --> 00:16:36,909
aggression for 74 years . It has proven 

421
00:16:36,919 --> 00:16:38,808
to be the world's most successful 

422
00:16:38,808 --> 00:16:40,697
defensive alliance extending that 

423
00:16:40,697 --> 00:16:43,469
shield of collective security from 12 

424
00:16:43,479 --> 00:16:46,969
to now , 31 allies and soon 32 

425
00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:50,090
having Finland and hopefully soon 

426
00:16:50,099 --> 00:16:52,049
Sweden in the alliance makes it 

427
00:16:52,059 --> 00:16:54,669
stronger , more capable and more secure 

428
00:16:55,409 --> 00:16:57,576
as we looked at the Vilnius summit and 

429
00:16:57,576 --> 00:17:00,049
beyond to the 2024 NATO summit here in 

430
00:17:00,059 --> 00:17:02,580
Washington , the power of that shield 

431
00:17:02,890 --> 00:17:05,619
providing security to nearly 1 billion 

432
00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:07,969
citizens of NATO countries remains as 

433
00:17:07,979 --> 00:17:10,810
strong as ever . Thank you for inviting 

434
00:17:10,819 --> 00:17:12,819
me today and I look forward to your 

435
00:17:12,819 --> 00:17:16,609
questions . Thank you , 

436
00:17:16,619 --> 00:17:19,339
Mr Jones and now recognize MS Cooper 

437
00:17:19,510 --> 00:17:21,066
for her opening statement , 

438
00:17:23,198 --> 00:17:25,420
Chairman Kaine , ranking member Keating 

439
00:17:25,420 --> 00:17:27,476
members of the committee . Thank you 

440
00:17:27,476 --> 00:17:29,609
very much for this opportunity at the 

441
00:17:29,619 --> 00:17:31,230
Department of Defense . I am 

442
00:17:31,230 --> 00:17:33,588
responsible for policy regarding 

443
00:17:33,649 --> 00:17:36,698
Ukraine . Russia , Belarus 

444
00:17:36,788 --> 00:17:39,458
Moldova , the South Caucasus and 

445
00:17:39,468 --> 00:17:42,130
Central Asia . Today , I want to focus 

446
00:17:42,140 --> 00:17:45,060
my remarks on the US policy response to 

447
00:17:45,069 --> 00:17:47,250
Russia's aggression in Ukraine and in 

448
00:17:47,260 --> 00:17:49,890
particular , our work alongside allies 

449
00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:52,180
and partners to provide Ukrainian 

450
00:17:52,189 --> 00:17:54,449
forces with the capabilities and the 

451
00:17:54,459 --> 00:17:56,292
training they need to defend the 

452
00:17:56,292 --> 00:17:58,760
Ukrainian people and repel Russia's 

453
00:17:58,770 --> 00:18:01,540
invasion . Our objective in Ukraine is 

454
00:18:01,550 --> 00:18:04,130
to ensure the existence of a free , 

455
00:18:04,140 --> 00:18:07,040
prosperous and democratic Ukraine that 

456
00:18:07,050 --> 00:18:09,359
can defend itself and deter further 

457
00:18:09,369 --> 00:18:11,469
Russian aggression . Ukraine is 

458
00:18:11,479 --> 00:18:13,535
attempting to liberate its territory 

459
00:18:13,535 --> 00:18:15,550
from Russian occupation or control 

460
00:18:15,599 --> 00:18:17,390
including in the latest counter 

461
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,109
offensive . Ukraine is well prepared 

462
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,739
and equipped . Although the course of 

463
00:18:22,750 --> 00:18:26,119
war is dynamic and unpredictable , we 

464
00:18:26,130 --> 00:18:27,979
do have great confidence in the 

465
00:18:27,989 --> 00:18:30,540
training capabilities and preparedness 

466
00:18:30,550 --> 00:18:32,790
of the Ukrainian armed forces . The 

467
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,800
security assistance that the United 

468
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,022
States and our allies and partners have 

469
00:18:37,022 --> 00:18:38,911
provided is substantial and those 

470
00:18:38,911 --> 00:18:41,349
resources reflect the shared interests 

471
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,250
and values that are at stake . Russia's 

472
00:18:44,260 --> 00:18:46,093
war of aggression is a clear and 

473
00:18:46,093 --> 00:18:48,149
present danger not only to Ukraine , 

474
00:18:48,149 --> 00:18:50,204
but to the security of Europe and to 

475
00:18:50,204 --> 00:18:52,427
the basic principles of sovereignty and 

476
00:18:52,427 --> 00:18:54,316
territorial integrity that uphold 

477
00:18:54,316 --> 00:18:56,989
global stability . Russia's atrocities 

478
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,390
in Ukraine are an assault on our common 

479
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,979
values and our common humanity in a 

480
00:19:01,989 --> 00:19:04,430
crisis of this magnitude one that 

481
00:19:04,439 --> 00:19:06,550
implicates our national interests and 

482
00:19:06,550 --> 00:19:08,599
values and those of the larger free 

483
00:19:08,609 --> 00:19:11,010
world , the United States must lead 

484
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,160
when we lead with determination and 

485
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,479
purpose . Our friends also respond for 

486
00:19:16,489 --> 00:19:18,433
evidence , consider the collective 

487
00:19:18,433 --> 00:19:20,790
contributions of the group of 50 plus 

488
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,310
nations . Secretary Austin has 

489
00:19:23,319 --> 00:19:25,152
assembled in the Ukraine defense 

490
00:19:25,152 --> 00:19:27,589
contact group . Last week , I joined 

491
00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:29,680
Secretary Austin in Brussels to 

492
00:19:29,689 --> 00:19:32,670
participate in the 13 th meeting of the 

493
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,209
contact group where we discussed how we 

494
00:19:35,219 --> 00:19:37,380
can collectively address Ukraine's 

495
00:19:37,390 --> 00:19:39,819
priority requirements both for the 

496
00:19:39,829 --> 00:19:42,709
immediate fight but also increasingly 

497
00:19:42,719 --> 00:19:45,670
for the longer term . All told , we 

498
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,569
have marshaled over 28 billion in 

499
00:19:47,569 --> 00:19:49,624
security assistance commitments from 

500
00:19:49,624 --> 00:19:51,680
allies and partners including in top 

501
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,791
priority areas of air defense , armor 

502
00:19:53,791 --> 00:19:56,959
and artillery . Nine European countries 

503
00:19:56,969 --> 00:19:59,520
have contributed more than a billion 

504
00:19:59,530 --> 00:20:02,109
dollars each . You can put these 

505
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,199
figures in perspective if you consider 

506
00:20:05,209 --> 00:20:07,449
security assistance to Ukraine as a 

507
00:20:07,459 --> 00:20:11,160
percentage of GDP . By that measure , 

508
00:20:11,260 --> 00:20:13,316
the United States actually currently 

509
00:20:13,316 --> 00:20:17,170
ranks 12th globally . It's also helpful 

510
00:20:17,180 --> 00:20:19,236
to break down the contributions into 

511
00:20:19,236 --> 00:20:21,619
categories of capabilities . For 

512
00:20:21,630 --> 00:20:25,140
example , over half of all the tanks , 

513
00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:27,709
armored personnel carriers and infantry 

514
00:20:27,719 --> 00:20:30,540
fighting vehicles provided to Ukraine 

515
00:20:30,589 --> 00:20:33,699
are from allies and partners , not from 

516
00:20:33,709 --> 00:20:35,930
the United States . Over half of the 

517
00:20:35,939 --> 00:20:39,290
105 5 millimeter artillery systems are 

518
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:42,949
from allies and partners . Over half of 

519
00:20:42,959 --> 00:20:44,930
the counter unmanned aerial system 

520
00:20:44,939 --> 00:20:47,349
capabilities and about half of the 

521
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,079
stingers and javelin missiles are from 

522
00:20:50,089 --> 00:20:52,869
allies and partners . Moreover , our 

523
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,047
allies and partners are having a major 

524
00:20:55,047 --> 00:20:57,160
impact in training Ukrainian forces . 

525
00:20:57,540 --> 00:21:00,709
In fact , allies have trained more than 

526
00:21:00,719 --> 00:21:03,040
three times the number of Ukrainian 

527
00:21:03,050 --> 00:21:05,050
soldiers that the United States has 

528
00:21:05,050 --> 00:21:08,010
trained coalitions of allies are 

529
00:21:08,020 --> 00:21:11,130
starting to emerge to focus on certain 

530
00:21:11,140 --> 00:21:13,930
capabilities . For example , Germany 

531
00:21:13,939 --> 00:21:16,161
and Poland are collaborating to provide 

532
00:21:16,161 --> 00:21:18,380
Ukraine with leopard tanks as well as 

533
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:20,223
the training and maintenance and 

534
00:21:20,223 --> 00:21:22,780
sustainment for those tanks . The 

535
00:21:22,790 --> 00:21:24,346
Netherlands and Denmark are 

536
00:21:24,346 --> 00:21:26,401
collaborating to set up training for 

537
00:21:26,401 --> 00:21:28,179
Ukrainian pilots to fly four th 

538
00:21:28,179 --> 00:21:30,234
generation aircraft . And we're also 

539
00:21:30,234 --> 00:21:32,346
seeing allies starting to make longer 

540
00:21:32,346 --> 00:21:34,130
term commitments . Germany has 

541
00:21:34,140 --> 00:21:36,369
authorized about 13 billion in support 

542
00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:38,660
to Ukraine over the next 9 to 10 years , 

543
00:21:38,670 --> 00:21:41,010
Norway has committed over 7 billion . 

544
00:21:41,260 --> 00:21:43,910
And Denmark recently announced 3.2 

545
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,976
billion . You will see many of these 

546
00:21:45,976 --> 00:21:48,198
figures in the handout that my team has 

547
00:21:48,198 --> 00:21:50,819
prepared for you today . Finally , it's 

548
00:21:50,829 --> 00:21:52,496
important to note the growing 

549
00:21:52,496 --> 00:21:54,718
collaboration between the United States 

550
00:21:54,718 --> 00:21:56,940
and partners on industrial production , 

551
00:21:56,940 --> 00:21:58,662
both to support Ukraine and to 

552
00:21:58,662 --> 00:22:01,239
replenish our own stocks . But in 

553
00:22:01,250 --> 00:22:03,829
addition to providing the steady flow 

554
00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:06,079
of security assistance and boosting 

555
00:22:06,089 --> 00:22:08,920
industrial capacity , we recognize the 

556
00:22:08,930 --> 00:22:10,652
importance of prioritizing the 

557
00:22:10,652 --> 00:22:13,300
accountability of that assistance to 

558
00:22:13,310 --> 00:22:15,143
date . We have not seen credible 

559
00:22:15,143 --> 00:22:17,366
evidence of the illicit diversion of us 

560
00:22:17,366 --> 00:22:19,643
provided advanced conventional weapons . 

561
00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:21,660
Although Russia continues to spread 

562
00:22:21,660 --> 00:22:24,140
disinformation to the contrary , that 

563
00:22:24,150 --> 00:22:26,640
said do d continues to implement 

564
00:22:26,709 --> 00:22:29,069
adapted end use monitoring measures in 

565
00:22:29,079 --> 00:22:31,739
Ukraine to track sensitive us weapons 

566
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:34,920
systems and to proactively prevent arms 

567
00:22:34,930 --> 00:22:37,479
proliferation . And I would be happy to 

568
00:22:37,489 --> 00:22:39,545
address additional questions on this 

569
00:22:39,545 --> 00:22:42,349
matter . In the discussion . Finally , 

570
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,581
our ability to provide Ukraine's forces 

571
00:22:44,581 --> 00:22:46,803
with the capabilities they need now and 

572
00:22:46,810 --> 00:22:49,939
over the longer term rests on continued 

573
00:22:49,949 --> 00:22:52,540
bipartisan support from Congress . I am 

574
00:22:52,550 --> 00:22:54,661
committed to working closely with you 

575
00:22:54,750 --> 00:22:56,861
to maintain enduring support for this 

576
00:22:56,861 --> 00:22:58,917
national security imperative . Thank 

577
00:22:58,917 --> 00:23:02,900
you . Thank you , Miss Cooper . 

578
00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:05,430
I now recognize myself for five minutes 

579
00:23:05,439 --> 00:23:08,290
of questions . Mr Jones , 

580
00:23:08,489 --> 00:23:11,520
reportedly the majority of NATO allies 

581
00:23:11,530 --> 00:23:13,419
are coalescing around the need to 

582
00:23:13,419 --> 00:23:15,229
provide Ukraine a clear path to 

583
00:23:15,239 --> 00:23:18,439
membership once conditions allow . Does 

584
00:23:18,449 --> 00:23:20,227
the administration support NATO 

585
00:23:20,227 --> 00:23:22,890
emerging from billion with a stronger 

586
00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:25,067
political commitment to Ukraine's NATO 

587
00:23:25,067 --> 00:23:27,233
membership bid than what what then was 

588
00:23:27,233 --> 00:23:29,456
expressed in 2008 ? Specifically , as I 

589
00:23:29,456 --> 00:23:31,567
mentioned in my opening statement , I 

590
00:23:31,567 --> 00:23:33,709
am concerned by reports that the US , 

591
00:23:33,719 --> 00:23:35,829
Germany and Hungary are the most 

592
00:23:35,839 --> 00:23:38,430
resistant to moving beyond the 2008 

593
00:23:38,439 --> 00:23:39,439
waring . 

594
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:45,670
Thank you , Mr Chairman . I think it's 

595
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,930
the top goal of the United States and I 

596
00:23:47,939 --> 00:23:50,849
think of all allies for the Vilnius 

597
00:23:50,859 --> 00:23:53,630
summit that we come out with a strong 

598
00:23:53,719 --> 00:23:56,359
unified message of support for Ukraine . 

599
00:23:57,079 --> 00:23:59,439
And I think we're on track to achieve 

600
00:23:59,449 --> 00:24:02,500
that allies will , of course , as you 

601
00:24:02,510 --> 00:24:05,079
mentioned , reaffirm Bucharest summit 

602
00:24:05,089 --> 00:24:07,089
language that Ukraine will become a 

603
00:24:07,089 --> 00:24:09,880
member of NATO . But we are preparing 

604
00:24:09,890 --> 00:24:12,459
to go beyond that in several important 

605
00:24:12,469 --> 00:24:16,099
ways . I think first of all is by 

606
00:24:16,109 --> 00:24:18,400
backing that up with increased levels 

607
00:24:18,410 --> 00:24:20,466
of non lethal support through nato's 

608
00:24:20,466 --> 00:24:22,577
comprehensive assistance package that 

609
00:24:22,577 --> 00:24:24,890
Ukraine needs now to help it prevail in 

610
00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:28,199
its war with Russia . 

611
00:24:29,030 --> 00:24:33,020
Secondly , uh we're developing what 

612
00:24:33,030 --> 00:24:35,030
is an unprecedented package of long 

613
00:24:35,030 --> 00:24:37,530
term support . That signals that the 

614
00:24:37,540 --> 00:24:40,280
alliance's commitment to Ukraine is for 

615
00:24:40,290 --> 00:24:43,400
the long run . This long term support 

616
00:24:43,410 --> 00:24:46,390
is focused specifically on preparing 

617
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,511
Ukraine for future NATO membership by 

618
00:24:48,511 --> 00:24:50,680
advancing Ukraine's reform agenda and 

619
00:24:50,689 --> 00:24:53,420
helping it to meet nato's membership 

620
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:56,650
standards . NATO is also preparing to 

621
00:24:56,660 --> 00:24:59,609
upgrade its partnership with Ukraine to 

622
00:24:59,619 --> 00:25:01,730
include a new Consultative body . The 

623
00:25:01,730 --> 00:25:03,786
NATO Ukraine Council , where Ukraine 

624
00:25:03,786 --> 00:25:06,430
will sit on an equal basis with allies 

625
00:25:06,439 --> 00:25:08,661
to advance the political dialogue . And 

626
00:25:08,670 --> 00:25:10,369
also Ukraine's Euro Atlantic 

627
00:25:10,380 --> 00:25:13,839
aspirations , the 

628
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,859
Ukraine and all allies agree that 

629
00:25:17,869 --> 00:25:20,489
NATO cannot join NATO cannot join . 

630
00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:22,278
Sorry , Ukraine cannot join the 

631
00:25:22,278 --> 00:25:24,333
alliance during an active conflict , 

632
00:25:24,609 --> 00:25:27,869
but NATO can provide Ukraine with the 

633
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,102
long term support . It needs to advance 

634
00:25:30,102 --> 00:25:32,102
its reform agenda so that it can be 

635
00:25:32,102 --> 00:25:34,380
ready to join the alliance . When 

636
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:36,640
conditions permit , does the 

637
00:25:36,650 --> 00:25:38,706
administration have a plan to engage 

638
00:25:38,706 --> 00:25:40,670
Congress on the is on this issue ? 

639
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,569
Particularly given it will likely 

640
00:25:42,569 --> 00:25:46,199
require additional funding . Yes , sir . 

641
00:25:46,209 --> 00:25:48,265
We're always available to consult on 

642
00:25:48,265 --> 00:25:50,520
this issue . Um And I think that's uh 

643
00:25:50,530 --> 00:25:52,641
part of what we're looking forward to 

644
00:25:52,641 --> 00:25:55,359
hearing . Um hearing today . Uh 

645
00:25:55,459 --> 00:25:59,219
Miss Cooper yesterday , this committee 

646
00:25:59,229 --> 00:26:01,520
passed mine and uh ranking member 

647
00:26:01,530 --> 00:26:03,308
Keating's bipartisan resolution 

648
00:26:03,630 --> 00:26:05,686
supporting the immediate transfer of 

649
00:26:05,686 --> 00:26:07,686
attack to Ukraine . Unfortunately , 

650
00:26:07,686 --> 00:26:09,797
this administration continues to deny 

651
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,469
these critical systems to Ukraine . Do 

652
00:26:13,479 --> 00:26:16,290
you agree that attacks could , would be 

653
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:18,540
useful to Ukraine's counter offensive ? 

654
00:26:22,660 --> 00:26:24,716
Mr Chairman , I think there are many 

655
00:26:24,716 --> 00:26:26,827
capabilities that are useful and when 

656
00:26:26,827 --> 00:26:29,400
we have looked at , we have also taken 

657
00:26:29,410 --> 00:26:31,109
into account other practical 

658
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,079
considerations like availability and 

659
00:26:34,089 --> 00:26:35,978
also whether there are substitute 

660
00:26:35,978 --> 00:26:38,670
systems . And right now , Mr Chairman , 

661
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,020
we are seeing the effectiveness of the 

662
00:26:41,030 --> 00:26:44,270
storm shadow system provided by the UK 

663
00:26:44,459 --> 00:26:46,181
and are finding it to be quite 

664
00:26:46,189 --> 00:26:49,780
effective . Uh You you have opposed or 

665
00:26:49,790 --> 00:26:51,790
excuse me , this administration had 

666
00:26:51,790 --> 00:26:53,957
opposed attack him because they saw it 

667
00:26:53,957 --> 00:26:56,489
as they have many weapon systems and , 

668
00:26:56,500 --> 00:27:00,390
and uh before as escalatory in , in 

669
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,122
nature . But the , as you just 

670
00:27:02,122 --> 00:27:04,289
mentioned , the British have , have uh 

671
00:27:04,289 --> 00:27:06,729
sent the storm shadow missiles uh to no 

672
00:27:06,739 --> 00:27:09,739
reaction by Putin is , is one of your 

673
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:12,140
concerns still the ability to escalate 

674
00:27:12,150 --> 00:27:14,500
the conflict . Mr Chairman . My 

675
00:27:14,510 --> 00:27:16,959
concerns relate to the practical 

676
00:27:16,969 --> 00:27:19,609
aspects of availability and also 

677
00:27:19,619 --> 00:27:21,675
whether there are other systems like 

678
00:27:21,675 --> 00:27:23,786
storm shadow , like the ground launch 

679
00:27:23,786 --> 00:27:25,730
small diameter bomb that will come 

680
00:27:25,730 --> 00:27:27,563
online this fall , other systems 

681
00:27:27,563 --> 00:27:29,829
including UAVS that can range the same 

682
00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:31,969
targets . And I would be more than 

683
00:27:31,979 --> 00:27:34,250
happy to discuss a greater details on 

684
00:27:34,260 --> 00:27:36,719
these issues in a classified setting . 

685
00:27:37,329 --> 00:27:39,440
I would appreciate that . Thank you . 

686
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,500
The um Miss Cooper , the Russian 

687
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:43,288
military has been using cluster 

688
00:27:43,288 --> 00:27:45,969
munitions with impunity in Ukraine . 

689
00:27:47,180 --> 00:27:49,291
Yet the administration has refused to 

690
00:27:49,291 --> 00:27:51,291
provide similar weapons known as de 

691
00:27:51,291 --> 00:27:53,410
picks to Ukraine . I am aware of the 

692
00:27:53,420 --> 00:27:55,364
dangers of unexploded ordinances . 

693
00:27:55,869 --> 00:27:57,980
However , the Ukrainians believe that 

694
00:27:57,980 --> 00:28:00,202
their battlefield benefits outweigh the 

695
00:28:00,202 --> 00:28:02,313
costs . And since these would be used 

696
00:28:02,313 --> 00:28:04,536
on Ukraine's own territory , Kiev would 

697
00:28:04,536 --> 00:28:06,758
be incentivized to judicially limit the 

698
00:28:06,758 --> 00:28:09,579
post war threat to civilians . Do you 

699
00:28:09,589 --> 00:28:11,533
think that the would be helpful to 

700
00:28:11,533 --> 00:28:13,200
Ukraine's counter offensive , 

701
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,200
particularly in offsetting Russia's 

702
00:28:15,209 --> 00:28:17,265
quantitative advantage in manpower , 

703
00:28:17,265 --> 00:28:20,119
armor and artillery ? Mr Chairman , our 

704
00:28:20,130 --> 00:28:22,920
military analysts have confirmed that 

705
00:28:22,930 --> 00:28:25,660
the picks would be useful especially 

706
00:28:25,670 --> 00:28:28,699
against dug in Russian positions on the 

707
00:28:28,709 --> 00:28:31,400
battlefield . The the reason why you 

708
00:28:31,410 --> 00:28:34,500
have not seen um uh move forward in 

709
00:28:34,510 --> 00:28:37,260
providing this capability relates both 

710
00:28:37,270 --> 00:28:38,937
to the existing congressional 

711
00:28:38,937 --> 00:28:40,937
restrictions on the provision of de 

712
00:28:41,069 --> 00:28:43,810
picks and concerns about allied unity . 

713
00:28:43,819 --> 00:28:45,875
But from a battlefield effectiveness 

714
00:28:45,875 --> 00:28:48,510
perspective , um we do believe it would 

715
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,670
be useful . Thank you . I now recognize 

716
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,402
ranking member keating for any 

717
00:28:53,402 --> 00:28:55,479
questions that he may have . Well , 

718
00:28:55,489 --> 00:28:57,829
thank you , Mr Chairman uh on the 

719
00:28:57,839 --> 00:29:00,989
attack issue too . Um You notice his 

720
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,459
language that in that , that uh it said 

721
00:29:03,709 --> 00:29:07,010
uh subject to our own readiness . Uh Is 

722
00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:10,359
there an issue without uh getting into 

723
00:29:10,369 --> 00:29:12,536
classified session generally that that 

724
00:29:12,536 --> 00:29:14,758
would have to be considered in any kind 

725
00:29:14,758 --> 00:29:16,869
of dispersion whether it's Ukraine or 

726
00:29:16,869 --> 00:29:19,130
otherwise ? Yes , ranking member 

727
00:29:19,140 --> 00:29:21,196
Keating , we would look at readiness 

728
00:29:21,196 --> 00:29:23,310
considerations and they would be um a 

729
00:29:23,319 --> 00:29:25,560
clear factor in our decision making . 

730
00:29:25,569 --> 00:29:27,699
Thank you . Thank you . The uh I 

731
00:29:27,709 --> 00:29:29,931
noticed Mr Jones in your testimony . Uh 

732
00:29:29,931 --> 00:29:31,987
You highlighted again for the second 

733
00:29:31,987 --> 00:29:34,739
time uh that uh heads of state from 

734
00:29:34,750 --> 00:29:36,819
Australia , Japan , New Zealand and 

735
00:29:36,829 --> 00:29:39,920
South Korea will be joining uh NATO at 

736
00:29:39,930 --> 00:29:42,280
the Wildness Summit . And uh and that's 

737
00:29:42,290 --> 00:29:45,270
significant uh as we look to China , uh 

738
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,599
and you look at the uh threat that 

739
00:29:47,609 --> 00:29:49,890
China , you know , currently exerts uh 

740
00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:51,956
with the building military and , and 

741
00:29:51,956 --> 00:29:54,289
its other types of course of activities . 

742
00:29:54,289 --> 00:29:57,239
Um That's quite a statement to see 

743
00:29:57,250 --> 00:29:59,930
these countries join together again as 

744
00:29:59,939 --> 00:30:02,959
partners in the summit . Uh two things , 

745
00:30:02,969 --> 00:30:05,025
how significant is that in sending a 

746
00:30:05,030 --> 00:30:08,020
message to uh China ? And also , uh 

747
00:30:08,260 --> 00:30:09,982
again , can you underscore the 

748
00:30:09,982 --> 00:30:13,270
importance of our victory and Ukraine's 

749
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,859
victory against Russia in terms of 

750
00:30:15,869 --> 00:30:17,758
posturing towards China and their 

751
00:30:17,758 --> 00:30:18,758
threats ? 

752
00:30:21,979 --> 00:30:24,329
I think the presence of nato's four 

753
00:30:24,339 --> 00:30:26,750
Indo Pacific partners is significant 

754
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,599
and it signifies the evolution that 

755
00:30:29,609 --> 00:30:31,280
NATO has gone through as it 

756
00:30:31,469 --> 00:30:33,739
increasingly recognizes the challenges 

757
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:37,060
that the PR C poses to Euro Atlantic 

758
00:30:37,069 --> 00:30:39,829
security and it has become increasingly 

759
00:30:39,839 --> 00:30:43,729
important agenda on for NATO . 

760
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,520
This has followed years of effort by 

761
00:30:47,530 --> 00:30:50,069
the United States and we're seeing 

762
00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:53,359
increasing convergence of views between 

763
00:30:53,369 --> 00:30:55,313
our European allies and the United 

764
00:30:55,313 --> 00:30:57,313
States and the way we recognize the 

765
00:30:57,313 --> 00:31:01,040
challenges posed by the PRC and 

766
00:31:01,050 --> 00:31:04,050
NATO has responded in a couple ways . 

767
00:31:04,060 --> 00:31:06,609
One by really focusing on what NATO can 

768
00:31:06,619 --> 00:31:10,510
do to reinforce resilience of our NATO 

769
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,339
allies to resist the coercive policies 

770
00:31:13,349 --> 00:31:16,219
and pressures from the PC and also by 

771
00:31:16,229 --> 00:31:18,396
expanding its partnerships in the Indo 

772
00:31:18,396 --> 00:31:20,562
Pacific . And that's what we're seeing 

773
00:31:20,562 --> 00:31:22,785
at this , at this summit for the second 

774
00:31:22,785 --> 00:31:25,400
time . Uh I think there is also 

775
00:31:25,489 --> 00:31:28,949
increasing realization that um what 

776
00:31:28,959 --> 00:31:30,792
happens in the Indo Pacific also 

777
00:31:30,792 --> 00:31:34,119
impacts um security in the your 

778
00:31:34,130 --> 00:31:36,949
Atlantic space and and the reverse as 

779
00:31:36,959 --> 00:31:40,280
well . So the outcome of the war in 

780
00:31:40,290 --> 00:31:44,199
Ukraine is extremely important to show 

781
00:31:44,209 --> 00:31:47,339
that um countries who engage in 

782
00:31:47,349 --> 00:31:49,800
aggression who violate the principles 

783
00:31:49,810 --> 00:31:52,030
of sovereignty and territorial 

784
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,380
integrity and use , use force to try to 

785
00:31:55,390 --> 00:31:58,089
redraw borders will not succeed . And 

786
00:31:58,099 --> 00:31:59,890
that is a message that will be 

787
00:31:59,900 --> 00:32:02,520
particularly important that the pr C 

788
00:32:02,530 --> 00:32:04,810
take the right lessons from the outcome 

789
00:32:04,819 --> 00:32:08,209
of this uh of this conflict . And m do 

790
00:32:08,219 --> 00:32:10,219
you want to comment in terms of our 

791
00:32:10,219 --> 00:32:12,829
defense Posture and how important it is 

792
00:32:12,839 --> 00:32:15,117
to send a message , not just a message , 

793
00:32:15,117 --> 00:32:18,640
but the reality that these countries 

794
00:32:18,650 --> 00:32:20,539
like minded countries in terms of 

795
00:32:20,539 --> 00:32:23,329
values are coming together on issues as 

796
00:32:23,339 --> 00:32:27,030
a deterrent to China . Yes . Uh 

797
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,096
ranking member Keating , I would say 

798
00:32:29,096 --> 00:32:31,800
that um one sign of the importance of 

799
00:32:31,810 --> 00:32:34,089
this and the shared unity is not just 

800
00:32:34,099 --> 00:32:36,349
uh the participation at NATO but also 

801
00:32:36,359 --> 00:32:39,040
participation uh by countries around 

802
00:32:39,050 --> 00:32:40,883
the world in the Ukraine defense 

803
00:32:40,883 --> 00:32:42,883
contact group that I had referenced 

804
00:32:42,883 --> 00:32:45,106
earlier . And um I will tell you that , 

805
00:32:45,106 --> 00:32:47,217
you know , from my consultations with 

806
00:32:47,217 --> 00:32:49,219
our Indo Pacific allies , they are 

807
00:32:49,229 --> 00:32:51,709
watching this very closely and they 

808
00:32:51,719 --> 00:32:53,497
want to ensure that there is an 

809
00:32:53,497 --> 00:32:56,300
unequivocal message of support for 

810
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:59,060
Ukraine and unequivocal condemnation of 

811
00:32:59,069 --> 00:33:01,660
Russia's actions . Lest we send a 

812
00:33:01,670 --> 00:33:04,790
signal to other dictators around the 

813
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,180
world . I also think I'm sorry , sir , 

814
00:33:07,449 --> 00:33:11,040
I'm approaching my time here but uh so 

815
00:33:11,050 --> 00:33:13,106
it's not lost in the overall picture 

816
00:33:13,106 --> 00:33:15,161
but still important I think what can 

817
00:33:15,161 --> 00:33:17,328
NATO do to incentivize Georgia to halt 

818
00:33:17,328 --> 00:33:19,494
some of its democratic backsliding and 

819
00:33:19,494 --> 00:33:21,661
continue to make the reforms necessary 

820
00:33:21,661 --> 00:33:24,300
for eventual uh NATO membership . Uh I 

821
00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:27,339
think this is important to underscore 

822
00:33:27,599 --> 00:33:30,770
the need for these kind of reforms as 

823
00:33:30,780 --> 00:33:33,979
we go forward too uh with other 

824
00:33:33,989 --> 00:33:36,100
countries as we approach the summit . 

825
00:33:39,170 --> 00:33:41,449
So I can answer this from uh from not 

826
00:33:41,459 --> 00:33:43,348
just the NATO perspective but the 

827
00:33:43,348 --> 00:33:45,515
bilateral perspective . I know that we 

828
00:33:45,515 --> 00:33:47,737
with our NATO allies are very concerned 

829
00:33:47,737 --> 00:33:49,459
about what we see in political 

830
00:33:49,459 --> 00:33:51,515
developments in Georgia . But at the 

831
00:33:51,515 --> 00:33:53,626
same time , we have to make sure that 

832
00:33:53,626 --> 00:33:55,792
we are continuing to send that message 

833
00:33:55,792 --> 00:33:58,209
to Russia that they must not press 

834
00:33:58,219 --> 00:34:00,739
forward and continue their aggression 

835
00:34:00,750 --> 00:34:02,920
in Georgia . So it means that we have 

836
00:34:02,930 --> 00:34:04,986
to maintain our military to military 

837
00:34:04,986 --> 00:34:07,550
relationships , we have to maintain our 

838
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,727
capacity building efforts . But at the 

839
00:34:09,727 --> 00:34:11,893
same time , send very strong political 

840
00:34:11,893 --> 00:34:14,300
signals to the leadership . Thank you 

841
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:18,229
very much , you back . Thank you , Mr 

842
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,839
Keating . I now recognize Mr Lawler 

843
00:34:20,849 --> 00:34:23,499
from New York for five minutes . Thank 

844
00:34:23,509 --> 00:34:25,829
you , Mr Chairman . Uh Last week , some 

845
00:34:25,839 --> 00:34:28,061
of my colleagues and I sent a letter to 

846
00:34:28,061 --> 00:34:29,839
President Biden urging that the 

847
00:34:29,839 --> 00:34:32,061
administration prioritize discussion on 

848
00:34:32,061 --> 00:34:34,519
Ukraine's ascension to NATO at the 

849
00:34:34,529 --> 00:34:37,429
Vilnius summit . Uh At the very least , 

850
00:34:37,439 --> 00:34:39,106
we must establish a clear and 

851
00:34:39,106 --> 00:34:40,939
achievable pathway to membership 

852
00:34:40,939 --> 00:34:42,772
accompanied by concrete security 

853
00:34:42,772 --> 00:34:45,209
commitments . Of course , uh is the 

854
00:34:45,219 --> 00:34:47,386
administration planning to put forward 

855
00:34:47,386 --> 00:34:49,052
this discussion at the summit 

856
00:34:52,830 --> 00:34:55,510
so I can speak to . Certainly your 

857
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,590
comment about a clear path that is a 

858
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,149
major focus of the summit . And we are 

859
00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:03,729
working diligently to send that clear 

860
00:35:03,739 --> 00:35:06,459
message of support for Ukraine at 

861
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:09,330
Vilnius . Well , yet just this weekend , 

862
00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:10,896
the president said that his 

863
00:35:10,896 --> 00:35:13,179
administration wouldn't make it easy 

864
00:35:13,189 --> 00:35:16,030
and for Ukraine to join NATO . So is it 

865
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,262
going to be a clear path or is it going 

866
00:35:18,262 --> 00:35:21,290
to be difficult ? Uh I don't think 

867
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:23,356
there's any um contradiction there . 

868
00:35:23,356 --> 00:35:26,300
The NATO um membership process is a 

869
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:28,310
rigorous process . It's a standards 

870
00:35:28,310 --> 00:35:30,477
based process um And to get through it 

871
00:35:30,477 --> 00:35:33,010
successfully . Uh So , if it's , if 

872
00:35:33,020 --> 00:35:35,187
it's standard , why do , why even have 

873
00:35:35,187 --> 00:35:37,298
the comment that we're not gonna make 

874
00:35:37,298 --> 00:35:39,076
it easy ? What is it that we're 

875
00:35:39,076 --> 00:35:41,020
concerned about ? Uh because every 

876
00:35:41,020 --> 00:35:43,242
applicant including Ukraine has to make 

877
00:35:43,242 --> 00:35:45,409
uh reforms to meet the um the criteria 

878
00:35:45,409 --> 00:35:47,520
for membership . And so uh what we're 

879
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,687
focused on in this um summit is really 

880
00:35:49,687 --> 00:35:51,798
providing Ukraine the support that it 

881
00:35:51,798 --> 00:35:53,909
needs to make those reforms so it can 

882
00:35:53,909 --> 00:35:55,798
be successful in the in the um um 

883
00:35:55,798 --> 00:35:58,280
membership process is the goal of the 

884
00:35:58,290 --> 00:36:00,457
administration ultimately to have them 

885
00:36:00,457 --> 00:36:02,879
part of NATO . So we have said that we 

886
00:36:02,889 --> 00:36:05,840
stand by what was said in um in uh in 

887
00:36:05,850 --> 00:36:08,199
Bucharest that Ukraine will become a 

888
00:36:08,209 --> 00:36:11,229
member of the Alliance . Um with 

889
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,989
respect to Moldova . Uh Moldova 

890
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,120
obviously is in the process of 

891
00:36:16,129 --> 00:36:19,239
reforming its government . President 

892
00:36:19,250 --> 00:36:22,169
Sandu has taken on corruption uh in 

893
00:36:22,179 --> 00:36:24,840
concert with the United States and the 

894
00:36:24,850 --> 00:36:28,399
eu uh putting sanctions in place . Um 

895
00:36:28,449 --> 00:36:30,399
They are obviously seeking eu 

896
00:36:30,409 --> 00:36:33,850
membership . Um And in that process , 

897
00:36:34,739 --> 00:36:37,060
is there any talk with respect to 

898
00:36:37,070 --> 00:36:40,620
Moldova being part of NATO and and 

899
00:36:40,629 --> 00:36:43,909
obviously rigorous process understood ? 

900
00:36:43,919 --> 00:36:46,770
But is there any talk with respect to 

901
00:36:46,780 --> 00:36:50,449
Moldova and what NATO can and should do 

902
00:36:50,459 --> 00:36:54,060
to help with security ? Um 

903
00:36:54,070 --> 00:36:56,189
Perhaps uh congressman , I can first 

904
00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:58,421
address it from a bilateral perspective 

905
00:36:58,421 --> 00:37:00,532
because right now , the government of 

906
00:37:00,532 --> 00:37:02,366
Moldova is really focusing on EU 

907
00:37:02,366 --> 00:37:04,532
membership and they aren't emphasizing 

908
00:37:04,532 --> 00:37:06,643
NATO membership . So we actually have 

909
00:37:06,643 --> 00:37:09,120
ramped up significantly our engagement 

910
00:37:09,129 --> 00:37:11,449
with Moldova to support them in this 

911
00:37:11,459 --> 00:37:13,449
critical time . And from a defense 

912
00:37:13,459 --> 00:37:15,229
department perspective , we've 

913
00:37:15,300 --> 00:37:17,260
significantly expanded uh security 

914
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:19,790
assistance and training and other forms 

915
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,530
of uh engagement and support . And it 

916
00:37:22,540 --> 00:37:24,790
really is intended to strengthen their 

917
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,830
ability to defend themselves um and 

918
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,790
have a deterrent effect um and build 

919
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,929
towards what they see as an immediate 

920
00:37:32,939 --> 00:37:35,989
eu goal . Um But if you want to come in 

921
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,389
on NATO , I just wanted to add that uh 

922
00:37:38,399 --> 00:37:40,500
Moldova follows a policy of 

923
00:37:40,510 --> 00:37:42,677
constitutional neutrality and so it is 

924
00:37:42,677 --> 00:37:45,110
not a requesting or seeking NATO 

925
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,342
membership , it's not a NATO aspirant . 

926
00:37:47,342 --> 00:37:50,030
Um but it is a strong partner to NATO 

927
00:37:50,270 --> 00:37:52,679
and NATO has uh tailored its support 

928
00:37:52,689 --> 00:37:56,370
for Moldova to be fully in respect of 

929
00:37:56,379 --> 00:37:59,610
its policy of constitutional neutrality . 

930
00:37:59,709 --> 00:38:02,229
And NATO does recognize Moldova as one 

931
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,760
of its partners , particularly at risk 

932
00:38:04,770 --> 00:38:07,379
and has targeted its supporters stood . 

933
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,504
Uh It is common knowledge that the 

934
00:38:09,504 --> 00:38:11,671
majority of NATO members still fail to 

935
00:38:11,671 --> 00:38:14,320
meet the alliance's 2% of GDP threshold 

936
00:38:14,330 --> 00:38:16,479
for defense spending . But this past 

937
00:38:16,489 --> 00:38:18,889
February Secretary Austin met with NATO 

938
00:38:18,899 --> 00:38:22,159
Secretary General Stoltenberg , uh and 

939
00:38:22,169 --> 00:38:24,113
then announced that NATO countries 

940
00:38:24,113 --> 00:38:26,399
would agree to a quote unquote new 

941
00:38:26,409 --> 00:38:28,929
defense investment pledge at the 

942
00:38:28,939 --> 00:38:32,070
Vilnius Summit . Uh Miss Cooper , uh do 

943
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,260
you know what this new pledge would 

944
00:38:34,270 --> 00:38:38,229
look like ? And what uh it would it 

945
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,949
be an increased threshold ? Congressman ? 

946
00:38:40,959 --> 00:38:43,219
I'm going to defer to um Das Jones 

947
00:38:43,229 --> 00:38:45,396
since my primary responsibility is not 

948
00:38:45,396 --> 00:38:48,129
specific to NATO . So allies are 

949
00:38:48,139 --> 00:38:51,370
intensely negotiating what the new 

950
00:38:51,379 --> 00:38:53,929
updated defense investment pledge will 

951
00:38:53,939 --> 00:38:57,550
be . And our position is 

952
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,139
that the new defense investment pledge 

953
00:39:00,149 --> 00:39:03,320
needs to affirm and enduring commitment 

954
00:39:03,330 --> 00:39:07,090
to send to spend 2% of GDP as a floor 

955
00:39:07,429 --> 00:39:10,550
for , for all allies . But in addition 

956
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,504
to that , there needs to be strong 

957
00:39:12,504 --> 00:39:15,800
language um to spend to aim to spend 

958
00:39:15,810 --> 00:39:17,588
even beyond that because in our 

959
00:39:17,588 --> 00:39:20,080
assessment , 2% spending by , by each 

960
00:39:20,090 --> 00:39:22,312
ally would actually not be sufficient . 

961
00:39:22,312 --> 00:39:24,312
Is there going to be accountability 

962
00:39:24,312 --> 00:39:26,368
measures as part of this ? Uh So the 

963
00:39:26,370 --> 00:39:29,330
secretary General does release a report 

964
00:39:29,340 --> 00:39:32,530
annually that details defense spending 

965
00:39:32,540 --> 00:39:35,909
by , by all allies and all allies 

966
00:39:35,919 --> 00:39:39,560
are asked to produce a plan , a 

967
00:39:39,570 --> 00:39:41,737
credible plan for how they will get to 

968
00:39:41,739 --> 00:39:43,729
the 2% mark . Thank you . 

969
00:39:47,010 --> 00:39:50,699
Thank you , Mr Lawler . I now recognize 

970
00:39:50,709 --> 00:39:52,719
uh Miss Titus of Nevada for five 

971
00:39:52,729 --> 00:39:54,896
minutes . Thank you , Mr Chairman . Uh 

972
00:39:54,896 --> 00:39:57,199
I'm glad to hear that Turkey has kind 

973
00:39:57,209 --> 00:39:59,790
of softened its opposition to Sweden's 

974
00:40:00,379 --> 00:40:03,120
uh joining NATO . But um at the same 

975
00:40:03,129 --> 00:40:04,851
time , I'm concerned about the 

976
00:40:04,851 --> 00:40:07,010
administration and some lawmakers 

977
00:40:07,020 --> 00:40:08,687
softening their stance on the 

978
00:40:08,687 --> 00:40:11,899
possibility of selling F-16s to Turkey . 

979
00:40:11,909 --> 00:40:14,600
We know Turkey is nothing if not uh 

980
00:40:14,860 --> 00:40:16,820
practical or uh 

981
00:40:17,820 --> 00:40:21,449
transactional . So , uh I , I 

982
00:40:21,629 --> 00:40:23,800
just believe that Turkey has proven 

983
00:40:23,810 --> 00:40:27,020
it's not a reliable NATO ally and its 

984
00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:29,879
actions are contrary to the spirit of 

985
00:40:29,889 --> 00:40:32,989
NATO . So I , I ask both of you , are 

986
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,340
you aware of any other of our NATO 

987
00:40:35,350 --> 00:40:38,000
allies that we've imposed sanctions on 

988
00:40:38,010 --> 00:40:41,250
under Kasa besides Turkey ? And are you 

989
00:40:41,260 --> 00:40:44,060
aware of any other NATO allies that 

990
00:40:44,070 --> 00:40:47,030
antagonize other NATO allies like 

991
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,610
flying into the airspace of Greece and 

992
00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:52,350
Cyprus uh besides Turkey . 

993
00:40:55,389 --> 00:40:57,959
So I'm not aware of other NATO allies 

994
00:40:57,969 --> 00:41:00,136
that we have applied cats of sanctions 

995
00:41:00,136 --> 00:41:03,280
to . I do want to say it's no secret 

996
00:41:03,290 --> 00:41:06,239
that we have differences with Turkey 

997
00:41:06,250 --> 00:41:08,194
but also from a NATO perspective , 

998
00:41:08,194 --> 00:41:10,417
Turkey is also a land long standing and 

999
00:41:10,679 --> 00:41:12,929
committed NATO ally . It does 

1000
00:41:12,939 --> 00:41:16,330
contribute strongly to NATO operations 

1001
00:41:16,340 --> 00:41:19,780
um including through the entire time of 

1002
00:41:19,790 --> 00:41:22,860
our NATO mission in Afghanistan . I 

1003
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:24,926
think the most recent example in the 

1004
00:41:24,926 --> 00:41:27,939
flare up of violence in Kosovo recently , 

1005
00:41:27,949 --> 00:41:31,750
Turkey sent 500 ask your 

1006
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,093
colleague there that same two questions . 

1007
00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:39,219
I I also am not aware of any instance 

1008
00:41:39,229 --> 00:41:42,040
of imposing CSA sanctions on another uh 

1009
00:41:42,050 --> 00:41:45,300
NATO member , any other NATO members 

1010
00:41:45,310 --> 00:41:47,189
flying in the airspace or taking 

1011
00:41:47,199 --> 00:41:49,620
aggressive action against other NATO 

1012
00:41:49,629 --> 00:41:53,239
fellow allies at the current 

1013
00:41:53,250 --> 00:41:56,050
time ? No examples uh come specifically 

1014
00:41:56,060 --> 00:41:58,004
to mind . Thank you . I think that 

1015
00:41:58,004 --> 00:42:00,340
makes Turkey the outlier . So whatever 

1016
00:42:00,419 --> 00:42:02,586
they may have done in the past , let's 

1017
00:42:02,586 --> 00:42:04,475
look at what they're doing in the 

1018
00:42:04,475 --> 00:42:06,586
present . Uh I don't also want to ask 

1019
00:42:06,586 --> 00:42:08,808
you about the situation with Kosovo and 

1020
00:42:08,808 --> 00:42:11,050
uh Serbia that seems to be boiling over 

1021
00:42:11,060 --> 00:42:14,060
again . We've seen divisive mayoral 

1022
00:42:14,070 --> 00:42:16,149
appointments in Kosovo . Northern 

1023
00:42:16,159 --> 00:42:18,629
Kosovo ethnic Serbs are attacking the 

1024
00:42:18,639 --> 00:42:22,010
UN peacekeepers . Kosova police 

1025
00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:24,580
officers are being detained in Serbia . 

1026
00:42:24,750 --> 00:42:27,560
Any instability in the Western Balkans , 

1027
00:42:27,570 --> 00:42:29,681
whether they're NATO members or not , 

1028
00:42:29,681 --> 00:42:32,395
is really a threat to NATO itself . And 

1029
00:42:32,405 --> 00:42:34,516
not to mention the security of the UN 

1030
00:42:34,516 --> 00:42:37,485
peacekeepers or to Kosovo's own NATO 

1031
00:42:37,495 --> 00:42:40,185
aspirations . I would ask you , Mr 

1032
00:42:40,195 --> 00:42:42,564
Jones , how is the US working with uh 

1033
00:42:42,574 --> 00:42:44,725
NATO to help lower the temperature 

1034
00:42:44,735 --> 00:42:48,550
between Kosovo and Serbia ? Well , 

1035
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,560
we've called on all parties to take 

1036
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,338
immediate action to de escalate 

1037
00:42:52,338 --> 00:42:55,169
tensions . We've condemned the violence 

1038
00:42:55,179 --> 00:42:57,235
which has been directed both at NATO 

1039
00:42:57,235 --> 00:42:59,235
troops but also law enforcement and 

1040
00:42:59,235 --> 00:43:01,939
journalists . We've been deeply engaged 

1041
00:43:01,949 --> 00:43:04,760
with Kosovo and with Serbia to de 

1042
00:43:04,770 --> 00:43:07,090
escalate and to urge both to quickly 

1043
00:43:07,100 --> 00:43:09,919
return to the EU facilitated dialogue . 

1044
00:43:11,189 --> 00:43:13,300
And I , and , and , and from the NATO 

1045
00:43:13,300 --> 00:43:15,522
perspective , you know , NATO continues 

1046
00:43:15,522 --> 00:43:19,120
to um uh be responsible for the safety 

1047
00:43:19,129 --> 00:43:21,939
and security through the uh of the uh 

1048
00:43:21,949 --> 00:43:24,060
and freedom of movement to the K four 

1049
00:43:24,060 --> 00:43:26,171
mission , uh recently reinforced that 

1050
00:43:26,171 --> 00:43:28,870
mission um to be able to execute that 

1051
00:43:28,879 --> 00:43:31,229
mission . I know there are high hurdles 

1052
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,800
for Kosovo to join as a full member of 

1053
00:43:33,810 --> 00:43:36,032
NATO . But can you tell us where things 

1054
00:43:36,032 --> 00:43:37,840
stand on its bid to join the 

1055
00:43:37,850 --> 00:43:40,310
partnership for peace program ? Is the 

1056
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,580
US supporting that is , are the 

1057
00:43:42,590 --> 00:43:45,969
tensions uh causing that to be 

1058
00:43:45,979 --> 00:43:49,820
delayed or affected anyway ? Negatively ? 

1059
00:43:51,580 --> 00:43:54,639
Well , uh there are hurdles to NATO to 

1060
00:43:54,649 --> 00:43:56,909
Kosovo moving forward . We've been 

1061
00:43:56,919 --> 00:44:00,239
clear that both Kosovo and Serbia need 

1062
00:44:00,250 --> 00:44:02,550
to immediately fulfill commitments to 

1063
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,389
the normalization agreement and also 

1064
00:44:05,399 --> 00:44:08,010
its implementation annex . And we've 

1065
00:44:08,020 --> 00:44:10,669
continued to support Kosovo's 10 year 

1066
00:44:10,679 --> 00:44:12,919
transition plan to transform the Kosovo 

1067
00:44:12,929 --> 00:44:15,699
security force into a multi ethnic NATO 

1068
00:44:15,709 --> 00:44:18,860
interoperable territorial defense force . 

1069
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:21,459
Um And that would help uh move Kosovo 

1070
00:44:21,469 --> 00:44:24,020
forward on this path , Miss Cooper . 

1071
00:44:24,030 --> 00:44:26,679
You want to add to any of this um 

1072
00:44:26,689 --> 00:44:28,800
Congresswoman since uh the Balkans is 

1073
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,360
not part of my portfolio . I thank you . 

1074
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:35,689
Thank you . Thank you . This uh 

1075
00:44:35,699 --> 00:44:39,399
committee will recess until 2 15 when 

1076
00:44:39,409 --> 00:44:42,659
we reconvene after votes 215 . Thank 

1077
00:44:42,669 --> 00:44:43,669
you . 

1078
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:52,689
The committee 

1079
00:44:55,439 --> 00:44:59,219
will come to order uh Mr 

1080
00:44:59,270 --> 00:45:03,159
Wagner for five minutes . Thank you , 

1081
00:45:03,169 --> 00:45:04,947
Mr Chairman and I thank you for 

1082
00:45:04,947 --> 00:45:07,169
organizing this hearing . Uh the NATO 

1083
00:45:07,179 --> 00:45:10,679
summit in Vilnius is fast approaching 

1084
00:45:10,689 --> 00:45:12,709
and I appreciate the opportunity to 

1085
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,590
examine uh allied priorities ahead of 

1086
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,709
this very critically important meeting . 

1087
00:45:18,919 --> 00:45:22,139
I am privileged to serve uh as a US 

1088
00:45:22,149 --> 00:45:24,260
delegate to the NATO parliamentary uh 

1089
00:45:24,260 --> 00:45:26,909
assem assembly , the alliance's 

1090
00:45:26,919 --> 00:45:30,449
legislative I guess advisory body uh at 

1091
00:45:30,459 --> 00:45:32,515
our spring meeting in Luxembourg , I 

1092
00:45:32,515 --> 00:45:34,626
was moved and gratified to hear first 

1093
00:45:34,626 --> 00:45:36,681
hand from our transatlantic partners 

1094
00:45:36,780 --> 00:45:39,560
that the alliance commitment to an 

1095
00:45:39,570 --> 00:45:42,600
independent sovereign and victorious . 

1096
00:45:42,610 --> 00:45:45,719
Uh U Ukraine remains absolutely iron 

1097
00:45:45,729 --> 00:45:49,530
clad equally important . Uh Our NATO 

1098
00:45:49,540 --> 00:45:51,707
partners made it clear to us that they 

1099
00:45:51,707 --> 00:45:54,850
understand the need to put real skin in 

1100
00:45:54,860 --> 00:45:56,860
the game . And I know that this has 

1101
00:45:56,860 --> 00:45:59,449
been uh addressed uh previously , but 

1102
00:45:59,459 --> 00:46:02,169
we , as we discussed at in Luxembourg 

1103
00:46:02,179 --> 00:46:05,129
at the NATO parliament , uh you know , 

1104
00:46:05,139 --> 00:46:08,500
spending 2% of GDP on defense 

1105
00:46:08,969 --> 00:46:12,879
should be a floor , not a ceiling 

1106
00:46:12,889 --> 00:46:15,560
for each member of the alliance . And I 

1107
00:46:15,570 --> 00:46:18,689
hope that the United States makes that 

1108
00:46:18,699 --> 00:46:21,060
case to our partners . During the 

1109
00:46:21,070 --> 00:46:24,580
Vilnius summit . The world is a safer , 

1110
00:46:24,590 --> 00:46:26,510
safer place when NATO is strong , 

1111
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,129
capable and ready . Uh In addition 

1112
00:46:30,139 --> 00:46:33,169
to uh the shortcomings that many NATO 

1113
00:46:33,179 --> 00:46:35,290
members face on their kind of overall 

1114
00:46:35,290 --> 00:46:38,530
defense spending , several also lag in 

1115
00:46:38,540 --> 00:46:41,290
their bilateral support for Ukraine . 

1116
00:46:41,919 --> 00:46:44,086
Uh Deputy Assistant Secretary Cooper , 

1117
00:46:44,350 --> 00:46:47,270
which countries could and should 

1118
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,610
provide more assistance to Ukraine . 

1119
00:46:50,620 --> 00:46:52,731
And how does the Biden administration 

1120
00:46:52,731 --> 00:46:54,899
engage with them to ensure that they 

1121
00:46:54,909 --> 00:46:56,790
are pulling their weight ? 

1122
00:46:59,179 --> 00:47:01,235
Thank you , Congresswoman Wagner . I 

1123
00:47:01,350 --> 00:47:03,294
would say that first of all , it's 

1124
00:47:03,294 --> 00:47:06,560
important to note that our NATO allies 

1125
00:47:06,570 --> 00:47:09,060
are , are pulling their own weight and 

1126
00:47:09,070 --> 00:47:11,126
their , their fair share in terms of 

1127
00:47:11,126 --> 00:47:13,290
supporting Ukraine . And we see 

1128
00:47:13,300 --> 00:47:15,709
tremendous support in terms of near 

1129
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,479
term uh provision of support on the 

1130
00:47:18,489 --> 00:47:20,656
immediate battlefield . But also we're 

1131
00:47:20,656 --> 00:47:22,711
seeing more and more allies actually 

1132
00:47:22,711 --> 00:47:24,711
investing in long term support with 

1133
00:47:24,711 --> 00:47:26,709
billions of dollars in multi year 

1134
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,886
commitment packages , which are really 

1135
00:47:28,886 --> 00:47:31,415
important , the areas where we see less 

1136
00:47:31,425 --> 00:47:33,369
support and where we have a lot of 

1137
00:47:33,369 --> 00:47:36,195
private quiet conversations because of 

1138
00:47:36,205 --> 00:47:38,185
the country's policies tend to be 

1139
00:47:38,195 --> 00:47:41,985
outside of Europe in regions where 

1140
00:47:42,044 --> 00:47:44,905
countries are not willing to be vocally 

1141
00:47:44,915 --> 00:47:47,425
in support of Ukraine , but sometimes 

1142
00:47:47,435 --> 00:47:50,655
quietly will agree to provide donations 

1143
00:47:50,665 --> 00:47:52,985
without publicity . But those are much 

1144
00:47:52,995 --> 00:47:55,264
more challenging conversations , but 

1145
00:47:55,274 --> 00:47:57,163
they are conversations that we're 

1146
00:47:57,163 --> 00:47:59,330
having at the highest levels of the US 

1147
00:47:59,330 --> 00:48:02,010
government . Thank you . Um uh Deputy 

1148
00:48:02,020 --> 00:48:04,076
Assistant Secretary Cooper , keeping 

1149
00:48:04,076 --> 00:48:06,250
with you uh a little earlier , you , 

1150
00:48:06,260 --> 00:48:08,482
you , you , you mentioned ground launch 

1151
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,770
small diameter bombs as an 

1152
00:48:11,780 --> 00:48:15,199
alternative to attack them that the US 

1153
00:48:15,209 --> 00:48:17,739
has agreed to provide . However , I 

1154
00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:20,469
don't believe these will be delivered 

1155
00:48:20,479 --> 00:48:23,739
to Ukraine's armed forces before 

1156
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:26,530
October is my understanding with 

1157
00:48:26,540 --> 00:48:28,959
Ukraine's counter offensive underway . 

1158
00:48:29,629 --> 00:48:32,560
The critical time is now 

1159
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:36,469
not in four months . Why would we wait 

1160
00:48:36,479 --> 00:48:39,040
until October to provide critical 

1161
00:48:39,050 --> 00:48:41,159
longer range systems rather than 

1162
00:48:41,169 --> 00:48:45,050
provide attacks ? Now , thank you 

1163
00:48:45,060 --> 00:48:47,080
for that . Um In terms of uh the 

1164
00:48:47,090 --> 00:48:49,146
capabilities that we're providing to 

1165
00:48:49,146 --> 00:48:51,146
Ukraine for their immediate needs . 

1166
00:48:51,146 --> 00:48:53,590
We're always looking at every possible 

1167
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,570
opportunity . Um and we always have to 

1168
00:48:56,580 --> 00:48:59,810
weigh the question of effectiveness , 

1169
00:48:59,820 --> 00:49:01,542
you know , will it work on the 

1170
00:49:01,542 --> 00:49:03,764
battlefield ? And are there alternative 

1171
00:49:03,764 --> 00:49:05,987
capabilities Um In this case , you're , 

1172
00:49:05,987 --> 00:49:08,042
you're absolutely right , ma'am that 

1173
00:49:08,042 --> 00:49:10,153
the ground launch small diameter bomb 

1174
00:49:10,153 --> 00:49:12,376
will not arrive until later this fall . 

1175
00:49:12,376 --> 00:49:14,431
But what we are seeing on the ground 

1176
00:49:14,431 --> 00:49:16,653
today is the employment of various long 

1177
00:49:16,653 --> 00:49:20,125
range uh UAV systems as well as uh the 

1178
00:49:20,135 --> 00:49:22,196
storm shadow system that the UK has 

1179
00:49:22,206 --> 00:49:25,355
provided , which both have um that that 

1180
00:49:25,365 --> 00:49:27,615
range . Um And in the case of storm 

1181
00:49:27,625 --> 00:49:29,845
shadow , also significant uh 

1182
00:49:29,885 --> 00:49:32,216
significant nothing we could do to move 

1183
00:49:32,226 --> 00:49:35,216
that that time frame up at all . My , 

1184
00:49:35,226 --> 00:49:37,282
my colleagues in the acquisition and 

1185
00:49:37,282 --> 00:49:39,226
sustainment organization have been 

1186
00:49:39,226 --> 00:49:41,582
working to try to move up the , the uh 

1187
00:49:41,592 --> 00:49:43,703
the ground launch small diameter bomb 

1188
00:49:43,703 --> 00:49:45,703
uh time frame . We absolutely agree 

1189
00:49:45,703 --> 00:49:47,870
that we would like to do that . Um But 

1190
00:49:47,870 --> 00:49:50,832
so far uh that the earliest is this 

1191
00:49:50,842 --> 00:49:53,261
fall that we , that we have heard . And 

1192
00:49:53,271 --> 00:49:55,327
in the meantime , we'll keep , we'll 

1193
00:49:55,327 --> 00:49:57,493
keep looking for other capabilities um 

1194
00:49:57,493 --> 00:49:59,382
within our own stocks . There are 

1195
00:49:59,382 --> 00:50:01,382
availability challenges with , with 

1196
00:50:01,382 --> 00:50:01,211
certain capabilities . I just want to 

1197
00:50:01,221 --> 00:50:03,054
reiterate in my few , you know , 

1198
00:50:03,054 --> 00:50:06,409
seconds left here that , you know , the 

1199
00:50:06,419 --> 00:50:08,820
counter offensive is now now is our 

1200
00:50:08,850 --> 00:50:11,219
moment and we have to do whatever we 

1201
00:50:11,229 --> 00:50:14,620
possibly can to provide the Ukrainians 

1202
00:50:14,629 --> 00:50:18,040
with the necessary armament , 

1203
00:50:18,090 --> 00:50:21,679
weaponry uh to , to try and 

1204
00:50:21,899 --> 00:50:24,080
finish this . So , um I thank you for 

1205
00:50:24,090 --> 00:50:26,312
your work and I thank you for the , the 

1206
00:50:26,312 --> 00:50:28,368
chair's indulgence and I shall yield 

1207
00:50:28,368 --> 00:50:30,090
back and submit the rest of my 

1208
00:50:30,090 --> 00:50:32,201
questions , Mr Chairman for the um in 

1209
00:50:32,201 --> 00:50:34,368
writing . Thank you . Thank you , Miss 

1210
00:50:34,368 --> 00:50:37,000
Wagner . The and now recognize MS Dean 

1211
00:50:37,260 --> 00:50:39,149
for five minutes . Thank you , Mr 

1212
00:50:39,149 --> 00:50:41,790
Chairman and ranking member uh Keating . 

1213
00:50:42,070 --> 00:50:43,792
Uh And I thank you both of the 

1214
00:50:43,792 --> 00:50:45,514
assistant secretaries for your 

1215
00:50:45,514 --> 00:50:47,570
testimony today and more importantly 

1216
00:50:47,570 --> 00:50:49,681
for your work and your service to our 

1217
00:50:49,681 --> 00:50:51,514
country , especially around this 

1218
00:50:51,514 --> 00:50:53,570
incredibly important global issue of 

1219
00:50:53,570 --> 00:50:56,409
Ukraine . Um I wanted to let you know , 

1220
00:50:56,419 --> 00:50:58,989
I , I serve uh suburban Philadelphia , 

1221
00:50:59,270 --> 00:51:01,270
Pennsylvania's fourth congressional 

1222
00:51:01,270 --> 00:51:03,214
district , which is Montgomery and 

1223
00:51:03,214 --> 00:51:05,270
Berks County is home to a tremendous 

1224
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:07,437
number of Ukrainian Americans . Just a 

1225
00:51:07,437 --> 00:51:09,381
wonderful uh community that I have 

1226
00:51:09,381 --> 00:51:11,919
known and loved uh since before uh this 

1227
00:51:11,929 --> 00:51:15,290
horrific uh invasion and set of war 

1228
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:18,280
crimes . Uh I , I and I share the 

1229
00:51:18,290 --> 00:51:20,512
sentiment of uh some folks on the other 

1230
00:51:20,512 --> 00:51:22,959
side of the aisle . I'm very proud of 

1231
00:51:22,969 --> 00:51:25,080
this administration and the president 

1232
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:27,379
for what he has done , how he has led 

1233
00:51:27,389 --> 00:51:29,540
and how we , the United States of 

1234
00:51:29,550 --> 00:51:32,860
America has brought 53 countries if not 

1235
00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:35,689
more together , seeing clearly the 

1236
00:51:35,699 --> 00:51:39,159
grotesque invasion by 

1237
00:51:39,169 --> 00:51:42,620
Russia . So , but my question and I'm 

1238
00:51:42,629 --> 00:51:44,685
posing it to both of you , either of 

1239
00:51:44,685 --> 00:51:47,060
you , Mr Jones , MS Cooper , what 

1240
00:51:47,070 --> 00:51:49,659
additional steps is NATO considering in 

1241
00:51:49,669 --> 00:51:52,810
order to end Russia's war in Ukraine as 

1242
00:51:52,820 --> 00:51:56,739
soon as possible as well as to deter 

1243
00:51:56,750 --> 00:52:00,120
any future aggression ? Obviously , if 

1244
00:52:00,129 --> 00:52:02,260
we end it sooner than later , I think 

1245
00:52:02,270 --> 00:52:04,326
that will be a powerful deterrence . 

1246
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,790
What else is NATO doing ? What else is 

1247
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,129
the administration summoning up to end 

1248
00:52:09,139 --> 00:52:10,110
this sooner . 

1249
00:52:15,219 --> 00:52:17,760
I'll talk briefly about what NATO is 

1250
00:52:17,770 --> 00:52:20,969
doing . Um NATO is 

1251
00:52:20,979 --> 00:52:24,090
also committed to supporting Ukraine in 

1252
00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:26,330
this conflict , but NATO'S role has 

1253
00:52:26,340 --> 00:52:29,290
been primarily um to provide um non 

1254
00:52:29,300 --> 00:52:31,889
lethal support to complement the lethal 

1255
00:52:31,899 --> 00:52:33,621
assistance that is being given 

1256
00:52:33,621 --> 00:52:35,843
bilaterally through the Ukraine . Um uh 

1257
00:52:36,149 --> 00:52:38,260
Defense Coordination Group that Laura 

1258
00:52:38,260 --> 00:52:40,550
described the alliance has been going 

1259
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,939
through a historic transformation of 

1260
00:52:42,949 --> 00:52:45,229
its own deterrence and defense in order 

1261
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,010
to uh to um ensure that there is no 

1262
00:52:48,020 --> 00:52:50,550
aggression against NATO territory . 

1263
00:52:50,709 --> 00:52:53,969
NATO has expanded its forward deployed 

1264
00:52:53,979 --> 00:52:56,560
forces , doubling the number of battle 

1265
00:52:56,570 --> 00:52:58,903
groups that it has on its eastern front , 

1266
00:52:58,903 --> 00:53:01,126
almost doubling the number of troops it 

1267
00:53:01,126 --> 00:53:03,348
has forward deployed . And NATO is also 

1268
00:53:03,348 --> 00:53:05,550
in the process of completing and is on 

1269
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,893
track to complete at the Vilnius Summit . 

1270
00:53:07,893 --> 00:53:11,379
A complete rework of its defense plans 

1271
00:53:11,389 --> 00:53:14,399
to take in a comprehensive plan for the 

1272
00:53:14,409 --> 00:53:17,330
defense of Europe , um which will both 

1273
00:53:17,340 --> 00:53:19,507
strengthen its , its , its deterrent . 

1274
00:53:19,540 --> 00:53:21,810
And I think send a clear message about 

1275
00:53:21,820 --> 00:53:24,290
our ironclad commitment to defend every 

1276
00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:27,310
inch of NATO territory . And if I may 

1277
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,020
add so from a perspective of your point , 

1278
00:53:30,030 --> 00:53:32,363
you know , to support the Ukrainians in , 

1279
00:53:32,363 --> 00:53:34,659
in winning this war , I I would say 

1280
00:53:34,669 --> 00:53:37,139
that right now , we are very focused on 

1281
00:53:37,149 --> 00:53:39,316
ensuring that the Ukrainians have what 

1282
00:53:39,316 --> 00:53:41,538
they need in the counter offensive . Uh 

1283
00:53:41,538 --> 00:53:43,593
We have helped support them to build 

1284
00:53:43,593 --> 00:53:46,540
nine new brigades . This is an amazing 

1285
00:53:46,550 --> 00:53:49,110
achievement and a tribute to the work 

1286
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,635
of us European command and our allies 

1287
00:53:51,645 --> 00:53:53,865
and partners . So these nine brigades 

1288
00:53:53,875 --> 00:53:55,986
have been outfitted with the best kit 

1289
00:53:55,986 --> 00:53:58,416
possible with tanks , with infantry 

1290
00:53:58,426 --> 00:54:00,635
fighting vehicles , artillery and with 

1291
00:54:00,645 --> 00:54:03,156
plenty of ammunition and , and we are 

1292
00:54:03,166 --> 00:54:05,333
watching to see what else they need as 

1293
00:54:05,333 --> 00:54:07,499
they , as things break , we're getting 

1294
00:54:07,499 --> 00:54:09,277
them spare parts or replacement 

1295
00:54:09,277 --> 00:54:11,055
capabilities . So that's a very 

1296
00:54:11,055 --> 00:54:13,110
tangible , very practical thing that 

1297
00:54:13,110 --> 00:54:14,944
we're doing . But I want to also 

1298
00:54:14,944 --> 00:54:17,055
emphasize that this is not just about 

1299
00:54:17,055 --> 00:54:19,222
today . It's also about showing Russia 

1300
00:54:19,222 --> 00:54:21,055
that they cannot wait us out and 

1301
00:54:21,055 --> 00:54:23,055
showing Russia that we are there to 

1302
00:54:23,055 --> 00:54:25,481
support Ukraine for the long haul . And 

1303
00:54:25,491 --> 00:54:27,713
that's something that you see reflected 

1304
00:54:27,713 --> 00:54:29,880
in the NATO discussions , but you also 

1305
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,769
see it reflected in our bilateral 

1306
00:54:31,769 --> 00:54:33,824
discussions , both in private and in 

1307
00:54:33,824 --> 00:54:35,713
public . And I think that will be 

1308
00:54:35,713 --> 00:54:37,769
increasingly important . Thank you . 

1309
00:54:37,769 --> 00:54:39,935
Thank you . And with the little time I 

1310
00:54:39,935 --> 00:54:39,652
have left , I thank you both for those , 

1311
00:54:39,812 --> 00:54:43,270
those answers and the nine Brigades is 

1312
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,080
impressive and important and I know we 

1313
00:54:46,090 --> 00:54:48,257
must be continuing to do more and more 

1314
00:54:48,257 --> 00:54:50,500
of that . I'm thinking also what 

1315
00:54:50,510 --> 00:54:52,550
additional security assurances for 

1316
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,671
Ukraine will the Biden administration 

1317
00:54:54,671 --> 00:54:57,790
support at the upcoming summit ? I'm 

1318
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,080
thinking along the lines of the kind of 

1319
00:55:00,090 --> 00:55:02,320
Israel style support the Security 

1320
00:55:02,330 --> 00:55:03,997
agreement , the memorandum of 

1321
00:55:03,997 --> 00:55:06,108
understanding that we have multi year 

1322
00:55:06,108 --> 00:55:08,108
commitments to Ukraine . I know you 

1323
00:55:08,108 --> 00:55:10,441
spoke to a little bit in your testimony , 

1324
00:55:10,441 --> 00:55:12,774
but if you wouldn't mind detailing that , 

1325
00:55:12,774 --> 00:55:15,020
thank you and I'll , I'll just touch on 

1326
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:17,340
again the bilateral dimension of this . 

1327
00:55:17,350 --> 00:55:18,906
And of course , there's the 

1328
00:55:18,906 --> 00:55:21,017
multilateral NATO dimension of this . 

1329
00:55:21,017 --> 00:55:23,072
Um So , you know , we are engaged in 

1330
00:55:23,072 --> 00:55:25,939
discussions on how we can support 

1331
00:55:25,949 --> 00:55:28,060
Ukraine and give that sense of 

1332
00:55:28,070 --> 00:55:30,290
confidence that they will have what 

1333
00:55:30,300 --> 00:55:32,629
they need , not just today , but in the 

1334
00:55:32,639 --> 00:55:35,179
long term , so that as there is an end 

1335
00:55:35,189 --> 00:55:38,070
to this war , we will also be deterring 

1336
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,340
future Russian aggression . Um And so 

1337
00:55:40,350 --> 00:55:42,572
these are conversations that are , that 

1338
00:55:42,572 --> 00:55:44,794
are occurring um in , in diplomatic and 

1339
00:55:44,794 --> 00:55:46,906
in , in military to military channels 

1340
00:55:46,906 --> 00:55:49,183
and will continue to unfold . Terrific . 

1341
00:55:49,183 --> 00:55:51,183
I see my time has expired . I yield 

1342
00:55:51,183 --> 00:55:54,169
back . Thank you , MS Dean . I now 

1343
00:55:54,179 --> 00:55:57,820
recognize Mr Self from Texas for five 

1344
00:55:57,830 --> 00:56:00,510
minutes . Uh Thank you , Mr Chairman . 

1345
00:56:01,300 --> 00:56:03,679
Um I think my colleagues are gonna 

1346
00:56:03,689 --> 00:56:06,270
cover Ukraine and , and the major 

1347
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,909
issues uh quite well . Uh in the lead 

1348
00:56:08,919 --> 00:56:11,370
up to Vilnius , I want to go to former 

1349
00:56:11,379 --> 00:56:13,310
Yugoslavia . You have a potential 

1350
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,669
flashpoint , uh assistant uh the Deputy 

1351
00:56:16,679 --> 00:56:19,189
Assistant Secretary Jones in the Serbia 

1352
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:22,350
Kosovo uh area . Um 

1353
00:56:23,550 --> 00:56:25,717
And I , I think people need to realize 

1354
00:56:25,717 --> 00:56:28,270
that from my time in NATO and the 

1355
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,502
European command in the nineties during 

1356
00:56:30,502 --> 00:56:33,050
the multiple civil wars , there are 

1357
00:56:33,060 --> 00:56:35,171
some issues that have not been solved 

1358
00:56:35,260 --> 00:56:38,750
between Serbia and Kosovo . As you know , 

1359
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,159
the Serbs basically boycotted the 

1360
00:56:41,169 --> 00:56:44,510
recent election . The Kosovars 

1361
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,879
took , took their rightfully elected 

1362
00:56:47,889 --> 00:56:50,590
positions and now we have a potential 

1363
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:52,767
flashpoint between Serbia and Kosovo , 

1364
00:56:52,767 --> 00:56:55,879
can you give me your opinion before I 

1365
00:56:55,889 --> 00:56:56,949
ask my questions ? 

1366
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,969
So I agree with your assessment on the 

1367
00:57:01,979 --> 00:57:04,449
potential flash point . And certainly 

1368
00:57:04,459 --> 00:57:07,439
NATO has a long history in , in the 

1369
00:57:07,449 --> 00:57:10,590
Balkans regarding Serbia and Kosovo , 

1370
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,250
we're engaged in intense diplomacy 

1371
00:57:13,260 --> 00:57:15,610
currently to urge both sides to 

1372
00:57:15,620 --> 00:57:18,330
deescalate and return to the eu 

1373
00:57:18,340 --> 00:57:20,699
facilitated dialogue . And we are 

1374
00:57:20,709 --> 00:57:23,159
supporting as a way ahead , the Eu's 

1375
00:57:23,169 --> 00:57:25,280
three point plan which is calling for 

1376
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,639
de escalation by both parties , new 

1377
00:57:27,649 --> 00:57:29,830
elections this time with Kosovo Serb 

1378
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,639
participation and also the 

1379
00:57:32,649 --> 00:57:35,040
normalization agreement implementation . 

1380
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,919
Uh And you have you mentioned uh Bosnia 

1381
00:57:38,929 --> 00:57:41,250
Herzegovina in your written testimony , 

1382
00:57:41,260 --> 00:57:43,790
you did not mention this at all . And 

1383
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,911
let's go to this election because the 

1384
00:57:45,911 --> 00:57:48,379
Serbs boycotted it . And I thought you 

1385
00:57:48,389 --> 00:57:50,667
would mention you wanted new elections . 

1386
00:57:50,667 --> 00:57:53,469
Why do you want new elections ? Because 

1387
00:57:53,479 --> 00:57:55,620
the boy , when someone boycotts an 

1388
00:57:55,629 --> 00:57:57,629
election , when a side boycotts the 

1389
00:57:57,629 --> 00:57:59,959
election , the election is held duly 

1390
00:57:59,969 --> 00:58:02,129
held and the people who win the 

1391
00:58:02,139 --> 00:58:05,030
election take office , why would you 

1392
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:06,399
ask for new elections ? 

1393
00:58:08,379 --> 00:58:12,350
So uh the plan including new elections 

1394
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,139
uh was referring to um elections in , 

1395
00:58:15,149 --> 00:58:18,070
in Kosovo um and uh which were 

1396
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,790
boycotted by the um uh correct and the 

1397
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,439
Kosovo Serbs . Um So we have recognized 

1398
00:58:25,449 --> 00:58:27,616
that the uh mayors that were elected , 

1399
00:58:27,616 --> 00:58:29,671
were elected um through uh through a 

1400
00:58:29,671 --> 00:58:32,909
proper election . Um However , uh 

1401
00:58:32,919 --> 00:58:36,010
the um they have not been able to um 

1402
00:58:36,020 --> 00:58:39,350
fully execute um their duties . Um And , 

1403
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,600
and in fact , their uh attempt to move 

1404
00:58:41,610 --> 00:58:43,919
into the uh their municipal office 

1405
00:58:43,929 --> 00:58:46,040
buildings is what has led to the , to 

1406
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:47,985
the violence . And so , but uh but 

1407
00:58:47,985 --> 00:58:50,100
that's my question , duly elected 

1408
00:58:50,110 --> 00:58:53,739
mayors are trying to do their duty to 

1409
00:58:53,750 --> 00:58:56,149
move into the office buildings and we 

1410
00:58:56,159 --> 00:58:58,919
are supporting re a redo as opposed to 

1411
00:58:58,929 --> 00:59:01,096
supporting these duly elected mayors . 

1412
00:59:01,096 --> 00:59:04,729
Why is that ? So these uh mayors due to 

1413
00:59:04,739 --> 00:59:07,530
the um to the boycott , they were 

1414
00:59:07,540 --> 00:59:09,207
elected with an extremely low 

1415
00:59:09,207 --> 00:59:11,290
percentage that happens every day in 

1416
00:59:11,300 --> 00:59:13,522
America . We have local elections where 

1417
00:59:13,522 --> 00:59:17,479
we have 10% uh turnout and we 

1418
00:59:17,489 --> 00:59:19,545
don't fight it because we have a low 

1419
00:59:19,545 --> 00:59:21,820
turnout , but it's led to large 

1420
00:59:21,830 --> 00:59:24,879
portions of the um electorate feeling 

1421
00:59:25,110 --> 00:59:27,166
disenfranchised if they are at their 

1422
00:59:27,166 --> 00:59:29,439
own choice , um they are willing to 

1423
00:59:29,449 --> 00:59:31,919
come back um and vote as we are urging 

1424
00:59:31,929 --> 00:59:34,229
them to , I think that would result in 

1425
00:59:34,239 --> 00:59:36,620
a , in a more um stable process and a 

1426
00:59:36,629 --> 00:59:39,149
more representative government um that 

1427
00:59:39,159 --> 00:59:40,992
would help um end the current uh 

1428
00:59:41,020 --> 00:59:43,242
conflict that we're the real , the real 

1429
00:59:43,242 --> 00:59:45,353
problem I see is the state department 

1430
00:59:45,353 --> 00:59:47,520
is trying to pull Serbia away from the 

1431
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,300
Russian Orbit . Uh You're intervening 

1432
00:59:50,310 --> 00:59:54,199
in uh elections that were properly held . 

1433
00:59:54,370 --> 00:59:56,949
You're interfere in interfering with 

1434
00:59:56,959 --> 01:00:00,149
people who were properly elected to , 

1435
01:00:00,810 --> 01:00:03,860
to try to insert yourself into a 

1436
01:00:03,870 --> 01:00:07,449
millennia old issue here and you are 

1437
01:00:07,459 --> 01:00:10,620
upsetting a duly executed election . 

1438
01:00:10,929 --> 01:00:13,096
You're not going to pull Serbia out of 

1439
01:00:13,096 --> 01:00:15,350
the Russian orbit . You might as Well , 

1440
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,800
let Kosovo , we have recognized Kosovo . 

1441
01:00:17,810 --> 01:00:20,032
I know a lot of people have not , a lot 

1442
01:00:20,032 --> 01:00:22,032
of countries have not , but we have 

1443
01:00:22,032 --> 01:00:24,199
recognized Kosovo . Uh You need to , I 

1444
01:00:24,199 --> 01:00:25,977
I encourage you to rethink your 

1445
01:00:25,977 --> 01:00:29,899
position uh on this Serbian Kosovar uh 

1446
01:00:29,909 --> 01:00:33,209
conflict here because uh you need to be 

1447
01:00:33,219 --> 01:00:36,429
standing for the rule of law , which is 

1448
01:00:36,439 --> 01:00:38,439
duly elected officials trying to do 

1449
01:00:38,439 --> 01:00:40,370
their duty without I yield back . 

1450
01:00:43,709 --> 01:00:46,699
Thank you . The chair now recognized Mr 

1451
01:00:46,709 --> 01:00:49,120
Costa from California for five minutes . 

1452
01:00:49,969 --> 01:00:52,080
Thank you very much , Mr Chairman and 

1453
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,302
thank you , ranking member Keating . Um 

1454
01:00:54,302 --> 01:00:56,469
I've got a number of questions . First 

1455
01:00:56,469 --> 01:00:58,636
of all , let me begin with the weapons 

1456
01:00:58,636 --> 01:01:00,858
to Ukraine . Uh Clearly , we've done an 

1457
01:01:00,858 --> 01:01:02,858
incredible job but obviously , more 

1458
01:01:02,858 --> 01:01:05,080
work needs to be done for , I think for 

1459
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,919
ourselves uh and NATO uh to ensure that 

1460
01:01:08,929 --> 01:01:11,096
this counter offensive is successful . 

1461
01:01:11,290 --> 01:01:14,679
Um The Ukraine has repeatedly requested 

1462
01:01:14,689 --> 01:01:16,522
cluster munitions including dual 

1463
01:01:16,522 --> 01:01:18,620
purpose improvised conventional 

1464
01:01:18,629 --> 01:01:20,760
munitions . Um And I'm not gonna go 

1465
01:01:20,770 --> 01:01:22,992
through the acronym but a host of other 

1466
01:01:22,992 --> 01:01:25,159
factors . Where are we on that ? And I 

1467
01:01:25,159 --> 01:01:27,439
know the we've struggled with the , the 

1468
01:01:27,449 --> 01:01:29,889
F-16s and I know that's in progress , 

1469
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,151
but right now they need these , these 

1470
01:01:32,151 --> 01:01:34,870
dual purposes uh um improved 

1471
01:01:34,879 --> 01:01:36,990
conventional munitions . Where are we 

1472
01:01:37,219 --> 01:01:40,340
congressman ? On ? Um I refer to it as 

1473
01:01:40,399 --> 01:01:44,360
uh for short uh on , on this issue . 

1474
01:01:44,550 --> 01:01:46,550
Um The military advice that we have 

1475
01:01:46,550 --> 01:01:48,494
received is that they would make a 

1476
01:01:48,494 --> 01:01:50,717
difference on the battlefield . Um That 

1477
01:01:50,717 --> 01:01:52,883
they would be effective against dug in 

1478
01:01:52,883 --> 01:01:54,939
Russian positions . Um There are two 

1479
01:01:54,939 --> 01:01:56,828
factors that weigh heavily in the 

1480
01:01:56,828 --> 01:01:59,070
decision making . Uh The one is that , 

1481
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:00,913
you know , Congress has actually 

1482
01:02:00,913 --> 01:02:03,136
legislated a restriction on transfer of 

1483
01:02:03,136 --> 01:02:05,247
these munitions with a dud rate above 

1484
01:02:05,247 --> 01:02:08,254
1% . So the congressional , if it's our 

1485
01:02:08,264 --> 01:02:10,542
responsibility , we can deal with that . 

1486
01:02:10,542 --> 01:02:12,653
I'm not looking for excuses . We know 

1487
01:02:12,653 --> 01:02:14,653
they would be effective . So you're 

1488
01:02:14,653 --> 01:02:16,653
saying that we have to act ? Well , 

1489
01:02:16,653 --> 01:02:18,431
right now , there is , there is 

1490
01:02:18,431 --> 01:02:20,597
legislation that restricts the trans I 

1491
01:02:20,597 --> 01:02:22,708
heard you . And then the second piece 

1492
01:02:22,708 --> 01:02:25,139
is the question of allies reaction . Um 

1493
01:02:25,149 --> 01:02:27,149
And then what you're saying is , is 

1494
01:02:27,159 --> 01:02:29,270
we're , we're , we're in a standstill 

1495
01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:31,050
until we make changes on the 

1496
01:02:31,060 --> 01:02:33,171
legislation until we get support with 

1497
01:02:33,171 --> 01:02:35,227
our allies . Is that the answer ? Um 

1498
01:02:35,227 --> 01:02:37,282
I've got other questions I wanna ask 

1499
01:02:37,282 --> 01:02:39,338
that . I think it would be important 

1500
01:02:39,338 --> 01:02:41,739
for us to understand um where members 

1501
01:02:41,834 --> 01:02:44,284
congress are on this issue . Well , ok , 

1502
01:02:44,294 --> 01:02:46,395
let's move on . We'll take that and 

1503
01:02:46,405 --> 01:02:48,975
follow up German's national security 

1504
01:02:48,985 --> 01:02:51,014
strategy . Last week , Germany 

1505
01:02:51,024 --> 01:02:53,135
published its first national security 

1506
01:02:53,135 --> 01:02:56,205
strategy document takes kind of a broad 

1507
01:02:56,215 --> 01:02:58,985
view at major threats facing Germany . 

1508
01:02:59,264 --> 01:03:03,135
The strate calls broad goals to 

1509
01:03:03,145 --> 01:03:05,201
increase defense spending and deploy 

1510
01:03:05,201 --> 01:03:08,030
more capable , robust armed forces . Um 

1511
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,318
What's your impression of the strategy ? 

1512
01:03:10,318 --> 01:03:12,540
Have you looked at it ? Uh the goals uh 

1513
01:03:12,540 --> 01:03:14,929
is this aspirational or is it realistic ? 

1514
01:03:19,050 --> 01:03:21,080
So , I think um in general , the 

1515
01:03:21,090 --> 01:03:23,449
strategy , um we're reviewing the 

1516
01:03:23,459 --> 01:03:26,580
strategy uh and , um , but we've been 

1517
01:03:26,860 --> 01:03:28,916
quite like minded with Germany and a 

1518
01:03:28,916 --> 01:03:31,229
lot of , um , um , the issue , but the 

1519
01:03:31,239 --> 01:03:33,406
bottom line is this aspirational or is 

1520
01:03:33,406 --> 01:03:36,449
this , uh can they achieve this ? Is it 

1521
01:03:36,459 --> 01:03:38,570
realistic ? Are you talking about the 

1522
01:03:38,570 --> 01:03:40,792
defense spending ? Yeah , that's been a 

1523
01:03:40,792 --> 01:03:42,959
problem as well with Germany . So , so 

1524
01:03:42,959 --> 01:03:45,070
far , um , you know , they laid out a 

1525
01:03:45,070 --> 01:03:47,181
very impressive uh plan for increased 

1526
01:03:47,181 --> 01:03:49,403
defense spending . Um , but we have yet 

1527
01:03:49,403 --> 01:03:51,626
to see it material . So the proof is in 

1528
01:03:51,626 --> 01:03:51,110
the pudding . Ok , let me move to 

1529
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,750
Armenia uh clearly uh you know , uh 

1530
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:57,169
Azerbaijan has no intention of 

1531
01:03:57,179 --> 01:03:59,512
following through with the Minsk Accord . 

1532
01:03:59,512 --> 01:04:02,290
And Russia is not going to uh they , 

1533
01:04:02,300 --> 01:04:04,411
they can't abide by any international 

1534
01:04:04,411 --> 01:04:06,633
rules that they previously committed to 

1535
01:04:06,633 --> 01:04:08,522
the Latin quarter continues to be 

1536
01:04:08,522 --> 01:04:11,540
closed to Nagorno K . Um And the 

1537
01:04:11,550 --> 01:04:14,879
blockade exists simply put , uh you 

1538
01:04:14,889 --> 01:04:16,889
know , Armenians are suffering . Uh 

1539
01:04:16,889 --> 01:04:19,649
What's our effort to try to deal with 

1540
01:04:19,659 --> 01:04:23,389
this ? Um I , I 

1541
01:04:23,399 --> 01:04:26,250
can share my perspective as a defense 

1542
01:04:26,260 --> 01:04:28,316
department official who handles this 

1543
01:04:28,316 --> 01:04:30,459
part of the , the world . Um First of 

1544
01:04:30,469 --> 01:04:32,469
all , I have to credit uh Secretary 

1545
01:04:32,469 --> 01:04:34,860
Blinken and uh and National Security 

1546
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:36,926
Council leadership for the work that 

1547
01:04:36,926 --> 01:04:38,981
they are doing to try to actually uh 

1548
01:04:38,981 --> 01:04:41,284
achieve a successful peace process . I 

1549
01:04:41,294 --> 01:04:43,238
know that's fine . But what are we 

1550
01:04:43,238 --> 01:04:45,461
doing to deal with the blockade and the 

1551
01:04:45,461 --> 01:04:47,516
lad ? And so that , you know , those 

1552
01:04:47,516 --> 01:04:49,461
peace negotiations are the path to 

1553
01:04:49,461 --> 01:04:52,415
stability and peace So where are we on 

1554
01:04:52,425 --> 01:04:54,314
this ? I mean , Azerbaijan has no 

1555
01:04:54,314 --> 01:04:56,425
intention of following through , they 

1556
01:04:56,425 --> 01:04:56,324
haven't followed through in their 

1557
01:04:56,334 --> 01:04:58,556
previous agreements and we sure as hell 

1558
01:04:58,556 --> 01:05:02,409
can expect Russia . So in terms of 

1559
01:05:02,419 --> 01:05:04,308
the , the peace negotiations , we 

1560
01:05:04,308 --> 01:05:06,641
actually are cautiously optimistic , um , 

1561
01:05:06,641 --> 01:05:08,697
that we're making some , I'd like to 

1562
01:05:08,697 --> 01:05:10,808
talk offline on what your optimism is 

1563
01:05:10,808 --> 01:05:12,975
and why . Absolutely . Yeah , I've got 

1564
01:05:12,975 --> 01:05:15,086
90 49 seconds . Now , please . I want 

1565
01:05:15,086 --> 01:05:16,919
to talk about burden sharing and 

1566
01:05:16,919 --> 01:05:20,149
defense spending . Um The summit that's 

1567
01:05:20,159 --> 01:05:22,959
coming up includes making 2% of the GDP 

1568
01:05:22,969 --> 01:05:25,191
target , a spending floor rather than a 

1569
01:05:25,191 --> 01:05:27,413
ceiling . However , we know some of the 

1570
01:05:27,413 --> 01:05:29,469
European countries have struggled to 

1571
01:05:29,469 --> 01:05:31,691
reach the 2% historically and this goes 

1572
01:05:31,691 --> 01:05:33,747
back , three administrations back to 

1573
01:05:33,747 --> 01:05:35,858
the Bush administration . The pace of 

1574
01:05:35,858 --> 01:05:37,969
their military procurement has led to 

1575
01:05:37,969 --> 01:05:40,191
delays in spending appropriated funds . 

1576
01:05:40,191 --> 01:05:42,191
And finally NATO countries close to 

1577
01:05:42,191 --> 01:05:44,413
reaching 2% increased funding , I think 

1578
01:05:44,413 --> 01:05:46,636
is coming as a one off thing . In other 

1579
01:05:46,636 --> 01:05:48,691
words , one off supplemental funding 

1580
01:05:48,691 --> 01:05:50,913
packages instead of an increased annual 

1581
01:05:50,913 --> 01:05:52,913
funding . Where do you think we can 

1582
01:05:52,913 --> 01:05:55,136
make some progress in the summit coming 

1583
01:05:55,136 --> 01:05:57,949
up ? So we are seeing progress , slow 

1584
01:05:57,959 --> 01:05:59,792
progress , too slow progress and 

1585
01:05:59,792 --> 01:06:01,903
increased allied defense spending . I 

1586
01:06:01,903 --> 01:06:03,903
think for the summit specifically , 

1587
01:06:03,929 --> 01:06:06,570
it's with a stronger defense investment 

1588
01:06:06,580 --> 01:06:09,469
pledge and we agree with that , we 

1589
01:06:09,479 --> 01:06:12,850
should set 2% as the floor for 

1590
01:06:12,860 --> 01:06:14,979
allied defense spending . And in 

1591
01:06:14,989 --> 01:06:16,989
addition to that , we're working to 

1592
01:06:16,989 --> 01:06:19,100
ensure there's also language in there 

1593
01:06:19,100 --> 01:06:20,989
that aims to go higher than 2% uh 

1594
01:06:20,989 --> 01:06:23,429
because we'll need more than 2% in our 

1595
01:06:23,439 --> 01:06:25,949
estimation for allies to be able to 

1596
01:06:25,959 --> 01:06:28,689
have the money to provide . Absolute we 

1597
01:06:28,709 --> 01:06:31,189
need Mr Chairman , my time has expired 

1598
01:06:31,199 --> 01:06:33,366
but I do want to follow up uh Chairman 

1599
01:06:33,366 --> 01:06:35,699
Moran and I were in wilderness . I mean , 

1600
01:06:35,699 --> 01:06:37,889
in Stockholm this weekend meeting with 

1601
01:06:37,899 --> 01:06:39,989
Swedish officials about their uh 

1602
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:42,669
ability to become a part of NATO . And 

1603
01:06:42,679 --> 01:06:44,846
I want to find out what we're prepared 

1604
01:06:44,846 --> 01:06:47,012
to do in the upcoming summit to assist 

1605
01:06:47,012 --> 01:06:50,110
Sweden and its ability to become a part 

1606
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,231
of NATO . It's critical . Thank you . 

1607
01:06:54,649 --> 01:06:57,020
Thank you , Mr Costa . I now recognize 

1608
01:06:57,030 --> 01:06:59,899
Mr Moran of Texas for five minutes . 

1609
01:07:00,979 --> 01:07:03,550
That was a perfect segue to the first 

1610
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:05,560
question I have . So let's let's go 

1611
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:07,782
with Mr Costa's question because we did 

1612
01:07:07,782 --> 01:07:09,949
have a good time uh discussing the the 

1613
01:07:09,949 --> 01:07:12,479
NATO accession for uh Sweden this 

1614
01:07:12,489 --> 01:07:14,711
weekend , both bilaterally with Swedish 

1615
01:07:14,711 --> 01:07:16,378
government officials and then 

1616
01:07:16,378 --> 01:07:18,267
multilaterally with EU parliament 

1617
01:07:18,267 --> 01:07:20,729
members . And there's strong support 

1618
01:07:20,739 --> 01:07:22,961
all the way around from everybody uh to 

1619
01:07:22,961 --> 01:07:25,072
make sure that Sweden gets into uh to 

1620
01:07:25,072 --> 01:07:27,017
NATO and to do it in a very timely 

1621
01:07:27,017 --> 01:07:29,183
fashion . So what , what pressures are 

1622
01:07:29,183 --> 01:07:31,300
we applying from the US government to 

1623
01:07:31,310 --> 01:07:34,139
ensure that the blockade or the 

1624
01:07:34,149 --> 01:07:36,629
objection by Turkey goes away and that 

1625
01:07:36,639 --> 01:07:39,010
Hungary follows suit and we get Sweden 

1626
01:07:39,020 --> 01:07:42,090
into NATO as quickly as possible . This 

1627
01:07:42,100 --> 01:07:45,149
is the top priority of the United 

1628
01:07:45,159 --> 01:07:48,010
States uh that Sweden become a NATO 

1629
01:07:48,020 --> 01:07:51,239
ally by Vilnius . And we are 

1630
01:07:51,250 --> 01:07:54,320
actively and persistently raising this 

1631
01:07:54,510 --> 01:07:56,510
with Turkey and with Hungary at all 

1632
01:07:56,510 --> 01:07:59,429
levels . Most recently , uh yesterday , 

1633
01:07:59,439 --> 01:08:01,550
Secretary Blinken in his meeting with 

1634
01:08:01,550 --> 01:08:03,850
Turkish Foreign Minister Fidan focused 

1635
01:08:03,860 --> 01:08:07,370
intensely on this . Um So our belief is 

1636
01:08:07,379 --> 01:08:11,290
that um allies have taken or Sweden has 

1637
01:08:11,300 --> 01:08:13,590
taken Turkey's counter terrorism 

1638
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:15,550
concerns into account and has 

1639
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:17,970
implemented largely the memorandum of 

1640
01:08:17,979 --> 01:08:20,459
agreement that they , that they reached 

1641
01:08:20,470 --> 01:08:23,509
with Turkey and Finland and Sweden is 

1642
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,298
ready to become a member of the 

1643
01:08:25,298 --> 01:08:27,409
alliance . Now , let me , let me just 

1644
01:08:27,409 --> 01:08:29,520
take issue just briefly with the word 

1645
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,576
you said , largely , you said they , 

1646
01:08:31,576 --> 01:08:33,687
that Sweden largely complied with the 

1647
01:08:33,687 --> 01:08:35,631
MU . But , um , I haven't found an 

1648
01:08:35,631 --> 01:08:37,687
instance where they did not comply . 

1649
01:08:37,687 --> 01:08:39,853
And in fact , it looks like to me that 

1650
01:08:39,853 --> 01:08:42,076
Sweden has complied beyond what the mou 

1651
01:08:42,076 --> 01:08:44,609
required has gone above and beyond and 

1652
01:08:44,620 --> 01:08:46,629
has done everything that Turkey has 

1653
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:49,270
required in order to remove those 

1654
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:51,057
objections . Is there something 

1655
01:08:51,057 --> 01:08:53,057
specifically that the US government 

1656
01:08:53,057 --> 01:08:55,390
would say that Sweden still needs to do ? 

1657
01:08:55,390 --> 01:08:57,501
No , I would agree . They have , they 

1658
01:08:57,501 --> 01:08:59,612
have implemented the MO A and they've 

1659
01:08:59,612 --> 01:09:01,612
done a great job getting to that 2% 

1660
01:09:01,612 --> 01:09:04,189
mark for defense spending and GDP and 

1661
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:06,422
that's , that's getting there quickly . 

1662
01:09:06,422 --> 01:09:08,644
And so it looks like to me that we need 

1663
01:09:08,644 --> 01:09:10,867
to continue to put pressure on Turkey . 

1664
01:09:10,867 --> 01:09:13,080
Does Turkey understand that if , if 

1665
01:09:13,089 --> 01:09:15,311
this does not happen , if the objection 

1666
01:09:15,311 --> 01:09:17,367
does not go away and Sweden does not 

1667
01:09:17,367 --> 01:09:20,169
exceed into NATO that their request for 

1668
01:09:20,180 --> 01:09:22,879
military equipment could be at peril . 

1669
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,089
So , yes , I mean , I think Turkey 

1670
01:09:28,100 --> 01:09:30,322
realizes and because they're hearing it 

1671
01:09:30,322 --> 01:09:32,489
not only from us but from all allies , 

1672
01:09:32,489 --> 01:09:35,470
the strong support for Sweden to join 

1673
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:39,410
um by Vilnius , they also realize that 

1674
01:09:39,419 --> 01:09:43,358
um confirm ratifying Sweden uh by 

1675
01:09:43,369 --> 01:09:45,528
the Wildness Summit um would help in 

1676
01:09:45,539 --> 01:09:49,128
many of these um uh of the weapons um 

1677
01:09:49,139 --> 01:09:51,250
transfers that you're talking about . 

1678
01:09:51,278 --> 01:09:53,334
Yeah , I think it's critical that we 

1679
01:09:53,334 --> 01:09:55,334
continue and we are as a bipartisan 

1680
01:09:55,334 --> 01:09:57,500
group at least this last weekend . And 

1681
01:09:57,500 --> 01:09:59,500
I think uh consistently have , have 

1682
01:09:59,500 --> 01:10:01,878
projected that message from Congress to 

1683
01:10:01,889 --> 01:10:04,159
Turkish officials that we need them to 

1684
01:10:04,168 --> 01:10:06,001
cooperate in this manner because 

1685
01:10:06,001 --> 01:10:08,209
Sweden's a decision to come out of 

1686
01:10:08,220 --> 01:10:10,540
neutrality after 200 years , frankly , 

1687
01:10:10,549 --> 01:10:12,716
of being neutral . I mean , most folks 

1688
01:10:12,716 --> 01:10:14,771
don't know that that Sweden is a big 

1689
01:10:14,771 --> 01:10:16,938
step for them . They've been a neutral 

1690
01:10:16,938 --> 01:10:19,105
country for 200 years and they decided 

1691
01:10:19,105 --> 01:10:20,938
to come out and apply for a NATO 

1692
01:10:20,938 --> 01:10:22,993
membership . Uh They uh in the first 

1693
01:10:22,993 --> 01:10:25,216
time in about 80 years provided weapons 

1694
01:10:25,216 --> 01:10:27,105
systems to another country . They 

1695
01:10:27,105 --> 01:10:29,160
hadn't done that since the World War 

1696
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:31,105
two time period . Uh Those are big 

1697
01:10:31,105 --> 01:10:33,327
steps for them to take uh to say we are 

1698
01:10:33,327 --> 01:10:35,299
on the side of what's good in this 

1699
01:10:35,310 --> 01:10:37,500
world and we need to meet that with uh 

1700
01:10:37,509 --> 01:10:40,060
appropriate force in my opinion and 

1701
01:10:40,069 --> 01:10:42,236
appropriate leverage to make sure that 

1702
01:10:42,236 --> 01:10:45,180
their , that their steps are um are 

1703
01:10:45,189 --> 01:10:47,411
successful in getting into NATO . Would 

1704
01:10:47,411 --> 01:10:49,745
you agree with that ? I agree with that . 

1705
01:10:49,745 --> 01:10:51,856
It's a historic shift that we've seen 

1706
01:10:51,856 --> 01:10:54,078
in both Finland and Sweden . These were 

1707
01:10:54,078 --> 01:10:56,245
centuries old policies of neutrality . 

1708
01:10:56,245 --> 01:10:58,411
And so a point that we frequently make 

1709
01:10:58,411 --> 01:11:00,689
to Turkey is not only is it about , um , 

1710
01:11:00,689 --> 01:11:02,759
Turkey , um , um , uh , demands on 

1711
01:11:02,770 --> 01:11:04,992
counter terrorism , but this is also an 

1712
01:11:04,992 --> 01:11:07,048
issue that affects alliance security 

1713
01:11:07,048 --> 01:11:09,103
and it affects the security of other 

1714
01:11:09,103 --> 01:11:11,326
allies as well . Right ? All right . So 

1715
01:11:11,326 --> 01:11:11,240
when we're talking about the NATO 

1716
01:11:11,250 --> 01:11:13,361
alliance , just with my last minute , 

1717
01:11:13,361 --> 01:11:15,472
let's , let's talk a little bit about 

1718
01:11:15,472 --> 01:11:17,472
Ukraine and I know they want to get 

1719
01:11:17,472 --> 01:11:19,583
into NATO one of these days . There's 

1720
01:11:19,583 --> 01:11:21,806
some hesitation to do that before peace 

1721
01:11:21,806 --> 01:11:23,972
after the Ukraine Russia war once that 

1722
01:11:23,972 --> 01:11:26,839
ends and there's talk about maybe a 

1723
01:11:26,850 --> 01:11:28,961
pathway . But at the Vilnius Summit , 

1724
01:11:28,961 --> 01:11:31,183
do you think it might be better just to 

1725
01:11:31,183 --> 01:11:33,406
send some set some benchmarks out there 

1726
01:11:33,406 --> 01:11:35,572
to say , hey , we need to get to these 

1727
01:11:35,572 --> 01:11:37,683
benchmarks before we even establish a 

1728
01:11:37,683 --> 01:11:39,461
pathway potentially for Ukraine 

1729
01:11:39,461 --> 01:11:41,517
becoming part of NATO . Do you think 

1730
01:11:41,517 --> 01:11:43,628
that's an appropriate and wise step ? 

1731
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:45,680
Well , I think what we're trying to 

1732
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:47,402
accomplish and I think we will 

1733
01:11:47,402 --> 01:11:49,513
accomplish is a really strong message 

1734
01:11:49,513 --> 01:11:51,930
of support for Ukraine including um not 

1735
01:11:51,939 --> 01:11:54,106
only , you know , going beyond what we 

1736
01:11:54,106 --> 01:11:57,180
said before about um our commitment 

1737
01:11:57,189 --> 01:12:00,220
that um Ukraine will become an ally , 

1738
01:12:00,569 --> 01:12:03,390
but also to provide increased support 

1739
01:12:03,399 --> 01:12:06,569
from NATO for its in its current 

1740
01:12:06,580 --> 01:12:09,350
conflict with Russia and also a really 

1741
01:12:09,359 --> 01:12:11,470
package that we're building really an 

1742
01:12:11,470 --> 01:12:13,879
unprecedented package to help Ukraine 

1743
01:12:13,890 --> 01:12:16,057
implement the reforms it needs so that 

1744
01:12:16,057 --> 01:12:18,319
it's ready to join NATO once the 

1745
01:12:18,330 --> 01:12:20,386
conflict ends . All right , thanks . 

1746
01:12:20,386 --> 01:12:22,529
I'd continue to urge you to , to do 

1747
01:12:22,540 --> 01:12:24,707
whatever we can for Sweden to get them 

1748
01:12:24,707 --> 01:12:26,929
into NATO . As you know , they're going 

1749
01:12:26,929 --> 01:12:28,762
to be a great long term economic 

1750
01:12:28,762 --> 01:12:30,762
diplomatic and military partner and 

1751
01:12:30,762 --> 01:12:32,873
them being part of NATO is a critical 

1752
01:12:32,873 --> 01:12:35,096
step in that process . So , thank you . 

1753
01:12:35,096 --> 01:12:38,089
Are you back ? Thank you , Mr Moran . I 

1754
01:12:38,100 --> 01:12:40,799
recognize Mr Wilson of South Carolina 

1755
01:12:40,810 --> 01:12:43,032
for five minutes . Thank you , Chairman 

1756
01:12:43,032 --> 01:12:44,540
Ken . And thank you and uh 

1757
01:12:44,549 --> 01:12:48,149
representative uh Bill Keating uh both 

1758
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:49,882
secretaries , you're gonna see 

1759
01:12:49,882 --> 01:12:52,104
something really remarkable uh with the 

1760
01:12:52,104 --> 01:12:54,327
leadership of chairman keen uh where uh 

1761
01:12:54,327 --> 01:12:56,438
Republicans and Democrats want you to 

1762
01:12:56,438 --> 01:12:59,890
succeed . And that's why so many of the 

1763
01:12:59,899 --> 01:13:03,240
questions that you see and um are are 

1764
01:13:03,250 --> 01:13:05,959
meant to be very positive and they are 

1765
01:13:06,109 --> 01:13:08,020
and , but we want you to succeed 

1766
01:13:08,029 --> 01:13:09,751
because war criminal Putin has 

1767
01:13:09,751 --> 01:13:13,549
inadvertently unified NATO . As we 

1768
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:16,109
see with uh Congress Moran , pointing 

1769
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,160
out about uh Sweden joining NATO uh 

1770
01:13:19,169 --> 01:13:22,640
giving up . Uh it's neutralism after 

1771
01:13:22,649 --> 01:13:25,479
2200 years . Uh We see the um 

1772
01:13:25,490 --> 01:13:28,089
incredible people of Finland uh who 

1773
01:13:28,100 --> 01:13:30,156
were successful in the winter war of 

1774
01:13:30,156 --> 01:13:34,140
1939 to resist invasion . We see the 

1775
01:13:34,149 --> 01:13:35,871
European Union coming together 

1776
01:13:35,871 --> 01:13:39,509
providing over $75 billion of aid to 

1777
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,609
the people of Ukraine And then again , 

1778
01:13:42,620 --> 01:13:45,189
possibly even more remarkable something 

1779
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,311
that Putin didn't mean to do and that 

1780
01:13:47,311 --> 01:13:49,311
is get Republicans and Democrats to 

1781
01:13:49,311 --> 01:13:51,540
work together . And that's why we want 

1782
01:13:51,549 --> 01:13:53,660
you to succeed . And uh you could see 

1783
01:13:53,660 --> 01:13:56,540
by the uh questions um from uh 

1784
01:13:56,549 --> 01:13:59,020
Congressman Costa , uh congressman ran 

1785
01:13:59,029 --> 01:14:01,759
with the Interparliamentary uh assembly . 

1786
01:14:01,939 --> 01:14:04,930
Uh I , we want you to do well . Uh and 

1787
01:14:04,939 --> 01:14:07,100
then , uh I was really very pleased 

1788
01:14:07,109 --> 01:14:09,660
with the passion by congresswoman and 

1789
01:14:09,669 --> 01:14:13,640
uh and ambassador uh Ann Wagner . Uh we , 

1790
01:14:13,649 --> 01:14:15,871
we want the right weaponry delivered as 

1791
01:14:15,871 --> 01:14:18,038
quickly as possible . And in line with 

1792
01:14:18,038 --> 01:14:20,149
that , uh Miss Cooper , you mentioned 

1793
01:14:20,149 --> 01:14:22,149
the legislative restrictions on the 

1794
01:14:22,149 --> 01:14:24,660
provision of the and that's the dual 

1795
01:14:24,669 --> 01:14:28,649
purpose improved 

1796
01:14:28,660 --> 01:14:31,910
conventional munitions . However , 

1797
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:34,160
there is a waiver available for the 

1798
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:37,009
president that was not mentioned that 

1799
01:14:37,020 --> 01:14:39,399
he can exercise this waiver at any time 

1800
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:41,560
and given the assessment that these 

1801
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:43,660
would be effective for the people of 

1802
01:14:43,669 --> 01:14:46,799
Ukraine for the counter offensive . Why 

1803
01:14:46,810 --> 01:14:48,770
isn't this issue addressed with a 

1804
01:14:48,790 --> 01:14:52,549
waiver immediately ? Uh Congressman ? 

1805
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:55,790
So , on the issue of um to pick , uh 

1806
01:14:55,799 --> 01:14:57,950
there is the , the , the question of 

1807
01:14:57,959 --> 01:14:59,959
congressional support and certainly 

1808
01:14:59,959 --> 01:15:01,848
there is a provision for a waiver 

1809
01:15:01,848 --> 01:15:03,959
that's absolutely accurate . Um But , 

1810
01:15:03,959 --> 01:15:06,126
but certainly the administration would 

1811
01:15:06,126 --> 01:15:08,181
want to understand , um , you know , 

1812
01:15:08,181 --> 01:15:10,292
congressional sentiment on this issue 

1813
01:15:10,292 --> 01:15:12,515
uh before taking such a step . And then 

1814
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:14,353
the other piece of it that I had 

1815
01:15:14,353 --> 01:15:16,576
mentioned earlier is the alliance unity 

1816
01:15:16,576 --> 01:15:18,375
piece . Um Since we do have a 

1817
01:15:18,384 --> 01:15:21,084
considerable number of NATO members 

1818
01:15:21,095 --> 01:15:23,825
that have uh signed up to the 

1819
01:15:23,834 --> 01:15:25,556
convention prohibiting cluster 

1820
01:15:25,556 --> 01:15:27,556
munitions . There are some concerns 

1821
01:15:27,556 --> 01:15:29,556
about whether this would lead to um 

1822
01:15:29,556 --> 01:15:31,667
divisions . II I want you to be aware 

1823
01:15:31,667 --> 01:15:33,556
when you have uh good people . Uh 

1824
01:15:33,556 --> 01:15:36,294
Amazingly enough , like uh former NATO 

1825
01:15:36,305 --> 01:15:39,020
president of the NATO Parliamentary 

1826
01:15:39,029 --> 01:15:41,259
Assembly , Gerry Connolly here , he can 

1827
01:15:41,270 --> 01:15:44,290
verify to you that there's a majority 

1828
01:15:44,299 --> 01:15:47,240
in Congress that wants the picks to be 

1829
01:15:47,250 --> 01:15:50,399
provided that even though there may be 

1830
01:15:50,410 --> 01:15:53,339
members of NATO that will not be 

1831
01:15:53,350 --> 01:15:56,350
supportive , it needs to be done and 

1832
01:15:56,359 --> 01:16:00,240
for the benefit of success , we want 

1833
01:16:00,250 --> 01:16:02,290
President Biden to be successful in 

1834
01:16:02,299 --> 01:16:04,520
this initiative . And to be successful 

1835
01:16:04,529 --> 01:16:07,319
means that the people of Ukraine have 

1836
01:16:07,330 --> 01:16:09,399
the most advanced weaponry with the 

1837
01:16:09,410 --> 01:16:12,200
longest range , the most effectiveness 

1838
01:16:12,209 --> 01:16:15,680
to face a war criminal who 

1839
01:16:16,100 --> 01:16:19,200
the mining of Ukraine . I mean just 

1840
01:16:19,209 --> 01:16:21,379
over and over again , the war crimes 

1841
01:16:21,390 --> 01:16:23,612
are being committed with that in mind . 

1842
01:16:23,612 --> 01:16:27,229
Also , Secretary Jones uh following the 

1843
01:16:27,500 --> 01:16:30,520
2008 Bucharest summit , Ukraine's NATO 

1844
01:16:30,529 --> 01:16:33,000
aspirations were welcomed and a path to 

1845
01:16:33,009 --> 01:16:35,129
membership was confirmed . The people 

1846
01:16:35,140 --> 01:16:38,930
of Ukraine have certainly indicated and 

1847
01:16:38,939 --> 01:16:42,649
by giving blood to every effort that 

1848
01:16:42,660 --> 01:16:44,382
they want a clear path to NATO 

1849
01:16:44,382 --> 01:16:48,169
membership and Americans uh also want a 

1850
01:16:48,180 --> 01:16:51,279
victory . And that's why as myself , as 

1851
01:16:51,290 --> 01:16:53,568
chairman of the US Helsinki Commission , 

1852
01:16:53,649 --> 01:16:56,779
we introduced House Resolution 3 32 

1853
01:16:56,790 --> 01:16:59,180
which defines victory in a path forward 

1854
01:16:59,189 --> 01:17:01,339
for NATO membership . And also it's 

1855
01:17:01,350 --> 01:17:04,410
bipartisan with 12 other members to 

1856
01:17:04,419 --> 01:17:06,641
provide for President Biden to call for 

1857
01:17:06,641 --> 01:17:08,870
a concrete pathway for Ukraine at the 

1858
01:17:09,189 --> 01:17:12,529
summit to provide for NATO 

1859
01:17:12,540 --> 01:17:16,020
membership with that . Why is , why is 

1860
01:17:16,029 --> 01:17:18,490
the administration hesitant on moving 

1861
01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:20,180
ahead with Ukraine ? 

1862
01:17:23,060 --> 01:17:25,720
So I think , you know , as I've said , 

1863
01:17:25,729 --> 01:17:27,959
one of our top goals for this summit is 

1864
01:17:27,970 --> 01:17:30,192
a strong message of support for Ukraine 

1865
01:17:31,330 --> 01:17:34,250
and to not only reaffirm what the 

1866
01:17:34,259 --> 01:17:36,370
allies said at Bucharest that Ukraine 

1867
01:17:36,370 --> 01:17:38,537
will become a member of the alliance , 

1868
01:17:38,537 --> 01:17:40,439
but also to back that up with an 

1869
01:17:40,450 --> 01:17:43,240
increased package of non lethal support 

1870
01:17:43,250 --> 01:17:46,140
larger than before . And also to unveil 

1871
01:17:46,149 --> 01:17:50,020
this package of support to 

1872
01:17:50,029 --> 01:17:52,560
signal the all the alliance's long term 

1873
01:17:52,569 --> 01:17:54,680
commitment that the alliance is there 

1874
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:56,791
to support Ukraine over the long term 

1875
01:17:56,791 --> 01:17:59,013
and to focus this assistance on helping 

1876
01:17:59,013 --> 01:18:01,180
Ukraine meet its reform agenda so that 

1877
01:18:01,180 --> 01:18:03,810
they can meet nato's membership 

1878
01:18:03,819 --> 01:18:07,459
standards because Ukraine and 

1879
01:18:07,470 --> 01:18:11,020
allies agree that Ukraine can't join 

1880
01:18:11,270 --> 01:18:13,930
NATO while there's an active conflict . 

1881
01:18:14,779 --> 01:18:18,310
But we can through this assistance , 

1882
01:18:18,850 --> 01:18:21,729
help Ukraine to advance its reform so 

1883
01:18:21,740 --> 01:18:24,459
it can be ready to join NATO when 

1884
01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:26,637
conditions permit . Well , there'll be 

1885
01:18:26,637 --> 01:18:28,859
bipartisan support for this and I yield 

1886
01:18:28,859 --> 01:18:30,770
back . Thank you . Thank you , Mr 

1887
01:18:30,779 --> 01:18:34,000
Wilson . Uh I now recognize uh Mr 

1888
01:18:34,009 --> 01:18:36,342
Connolly from Virginia for five minutes . 

1889
01:18:36,342 --> 01:18:38,565
Thank you Mr Chairman and thank you for 

1890
01:18:38,565 --> 01:18:40,787
allowing me to participate . Welcome to 

1891
01:18:40,787 --> 01:18:42,953
our two witnesses . Uh And let me just 

1892
01:18:42,953 --> 01:18:44,953
say , I think uh hopefully you have 

1893
01:18:44,953 --> 01:18:47,120
heard on a bipartisan basis and I hope 

1894
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:49,231
it helps you diplomatically and , and 

1895
01:18:49,649 --> 01:18:51,927
counterpart to counterpart discussions . 

1896
01:18:51,990 --> 01:18:54,629
I think , I do think the sentiment here 

1897
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:57,879
in Congress is no F-16s or major weapon 

1898
01:18:57,890 --> 01:19:00,899
sales to Turkey until they have decided 

1899
01:19:00,910 --> 01:19:03,970
to release Sweden and allow Sweden's 

1900
01:19:03,979 --> 01:19:07,939
succession immediately into NATO Turkey 

1901
01:19:07,950 --> 01:19:11,700
doesn't get uh to do that without , 

1902
01:19:11,770 --> 01:19:13,492
you know , to block it without 

1903
01:19:13,492 --> 01:19:16,720
consequences . Um I also believe that 

1904
01:19:17,189 --> 01:19:19,356
in Congress , there's probably broad , 

1905
01:19:19,356 --> 01:19:22,020
broad support for going ahead with 

1906
01:19:22,029 --> 01:19:24,189
F-16s for Ukraine and going ahead at 

1907
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:26,479
Vilnius and giving the green light to 

1908
01:19:26,490 --> 01:19:28,657
an invitation , a direct invitation to 

1909
01:19:28,657 --> 01:19:32,319
Ukraine for membership . Um Miss 

1910
01:19:32,330 --> 01:19:35,649
Cooper , I would say to you um I 

1911
01:19:35,660 --> 01:19:37,609
appreciate and I think a lot of my 

1912
01:19:37,620 --> 01:19:39,959
colleagues appreciate your concern and 

1913
01:19:39,970 --> 01:19:41,970
deference to Congress about certain 

1914
01:19:41,970 --> 01:19:44,919
things like cluster bombs . Uh That's , 

1915
01:19:44,930 --> 01:19:47,779
that's not a , a non controversial item 

1916
01:19:47,979 --> 01:19:50,169
and it's not necessarily on the 

1917
01:19:50,180 --> 01:19:52,390
approved list on a bipartisan basis 

1918
01:19:52,629 --> 01:19:54,850
going to Ukraine . Uh And we need to 

1919
01:19:54,859 --> 01:19:56,915
have that debate and that discussion 

1920
01:19:56,915 --> 01:19:59,026
and it's , you're absolutely right to 

1921
01:19:59,026 --> 01:20:01,129
express the caution you did from my 

1922
01:20:01,140 --> 01:20:04,709
point of view . Uh Mr Assistant 

1923
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,669
Secretary , um I'm gonna ask you two 

1924
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:11,410
questions . One is uh maybe easy or 

1925
01:20:11,419 --> 01:20:13,620
than the other . The other one is not 

1926
01:20:13,629 --> 01:20:16,509
gonna be particularly uh an invitation 

1927
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:18,742
to a diplomatic answer , but it's gonna 

1928
01:20:18,742 --> 01:20:20,798
be direct . Uh So the first one is , 

1929
01:20:20,798 --> 01:20:22,909
where are we , as you know , the NATO 

1930
01:20:22,909 --> 01:20:25,310
Parliamentary Assembly has virtually 

1931
01:20:25,319 --> 01:20:27,160
unanimously . Hundreds of 

1932
01:20:27,169 --> 01:20:31,120
parliamentarians representing 31 

1933
01:20:31,129 --> 01:20:33,479
parliaments have recommended the 

1934
01:20:33,490 --> 01:20:35,490
creation of a Center for democratic 

1935
01:20:35,490 --> 01:20:37,990
resilience at NATO itself . So that we , 

1936
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:40,950
we are in fact operationalized the 

1937
01:20:40,959 --> 01:20:42,790
avowed commitment . We have to 

1938
01:20:42,799 --> 01:20:45,049
democratic shared values , creating an 

1939
01:20:45,060 --> 01:20:47,560
architecture to propound advocate for 

1940
01:20:47,810 --> 01:20:51,620
uh and be a resource about democracy 

1941
01:20:51,629 --> 01:20:53,589
and democratic institutions real 

1942
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:55,600
briefly , where are we in that ? Uh 

1943
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,822
Because last time I checked , we had uh 

1944
01:20:57,822 --> 01:21:01,379
29 out of 30 ambassadors to North 

1945
01:21:01,390 --> 01:21:04,020
Atlantic Council supporting the idea . 

1946
01:21:05,669 --> 01:21:07,725
So we support the idea . We think it 

1947
01:21:07,725 --> 01:21:09,947
would be an important forum for NATO to 

1948
01:21:09,947 --> 01:21:12,350
protect its shared values that are the 

1949
01:21:12,359 --> 01:21:14,415
basis for the alliance . And we have 

1950
01:21:14,415 --> 01:21:16,950
advocated for this at NATO . We made a 

1951
01:21:16,959 --> 01:21:19,126
strong push for this before the Madrid 

1952
01:21:19,126 --> 01:21:21,292
summit , but unfortunately , there was 

1953
01:21:21,292 --> 01:21:23,529
not NATO consensus or unanimity as is 

1954
01:21:23,540 --> 01:21:26,350
required for all NATO decisions . And 

1955
01:21:26,359 --> 01:21:29,979
so we elected um rather than take on 

1956
01:21:29,990 --> 01:21:32,299
um amendments to that proposal that 

1957
01:21:32,310 --> 01:21:34,421
would have in our mind gutted it . We 

1958
01:21:34,421 --> 01:21:36,199
elected to play a long game and 

1959
01:21:36,199 --> 01:21:38,439
continue to push for this . Um And we 

1960
01:21:38,450 --> 01:21:42,180
are regularly um raising this um at 

1961
01:21:42,189 --> 01:21:44,411
NATO including at recent North Atlantic 

1962
01:21:44,411 --> 01:21:48,089
Council meetings . And um we um 

1963
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:51,311
don't think this will be delivered by 

1964
01:21:51,311 --> 01:21:53,478
Madrid , I mean , by , by Vilnius . Uh 

1965
01:21:53,478 --> 01:21:55,939
But we think um we can keep uh 

1966
01:21:55,950 --> 01:21:57,950
advocating for this and in the long 

1967
01:21:57,950 --> 01:22:00,172
term , um well , taking a page out of M 

1968
01:22:00,172 --> 01:22:02,394
Cooper's book , I think it is important 

1969
01:22:02,394 --> 01:22:04,394
to take caucus is the fact that the 

1970
01:22:04,394 --> 01:22:06,283
House of Representatives passed a 

1971
01:22:06,283 --> 01:22:08,600
resolution endorsing this uh on a big 

1972
01:22:08,609 --> 01:22:11,850
bipartisan vote . So , you know , uh 

1973
01:22:11,959 --> 01:22:14,509
it's not like some stray idea that 

1974
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:16,944
might be good to pursue . Not that 

1975
01:22:16,944 --> 01:22:18,722
you're saying that , but it has 

1976
01:22:18,722 --> 01:22:21,060
standing in Congress , we actually 

1977
01:22:21,069 --> 01:22:23,910
acted on it and I think that the 

1978
01:22:23,919 --> 01:22:25,919
support from the NATO parliamentary 

1979
01:22:25,919 --> 01:22:27,919
Assembly has actually been critical 

1980
01:22:27,950 --> 01:22:30,061
effort and it makes a big impact with 

1981
01:22:30,061 --> 01:22:32,172
those . Now , you're being allies who 

1982
01:22:32,172 --> 01:22:34,394
have not , you're being diplomatic . Mr 

1983
01:22:34,394 --> 01:22:36,617
Jones , you said we operate unanimously 

1984
01:22:36,617 --> 01:22:39,370
and I pointed out 29 or 30 ambassadors 

1985
01:22:39,379 --> 01:22:41,580
support it . So who pray tell is not 

1986
01:22:41,589 --> 01:22:43,367
supporting it and blocking it ? 

1987
01:22:46,959 --> 01:22:49,990
Well , I , you can say it all right . I 

1988
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:52,222
prefer not to talk about what happens . 

1989
01:22:52,222 --> 01:22:54,222
I know , but we , we prefer to talk 

1990
01:22:54,222 --> 01:22:56,444
about it . All right . Well , I think , 

1991
01:22:56,444 --> 01:22:59,660
you know , so did I hear you say hungry ? 

1992
01:23:01,450 --> 01:23:03,506
Yes , that's what I thought you said 

1993
01:23:03,506 --> 01:23:06,549
that . Um , so real quickly . But I , 

1994
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:08,782
I'll , I'll make a statement so I don't 

1995
01:23:08,782 --> 01:23:10,838
put you in it . I , I think the time 

1996
01:23:10,838 --> 01:23:12,949
has come to reassess the relationship 

1997
01:23:12,949 --> 01:23:15,116
with Hungary across the board . The eu 

1998
01:23:15,116 --> 01:23:17,282
is doing it and it has suspended aid . 

1999
01:23:17,282 --> 01:23:19,709
It is , it is absolutely going down a 

2000
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:22,390
road that compromises democratic 

2001
01:23:22,399 --> 01:23:24,430
institutions . It has publicly 

2002
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:26,272
criticized the United States for 

2003
01:23:26,272 --> 01:23:28,272
undermining its own legitimacy as a 

2004
01:23:28,272 --> 01:23:31,640
government rather than Russia . It has 

2005
01:23:31,649 --> 01:23:33,740
strengthened its relationships with 

2006
01:23:33,750 --> 01:23:35,917
Russia in the middle of a war . It has 

2007
01:23:35,917 --> 01:23:38,028
threatened to block further sanctions 

2008
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:40,660
and it's blocking certainly the 

2009
01:23:40,669 --> 01:23:42,891
membership of Sweden , the accession of 

2010
01:23:42,891 --> 01:23:45,479
Sweden to NATO . It raises serious 

2011
01:23:45,490 --> 01:23:48,430
questions about a viper at our breast 

2012
01:23:49,229 --> 01:23:52,020
in NATO . And I , I think the time has 

2013
01:23:52,029 --> 01:23:54,140
come for a serious reassessment about 

2014
01:23:54,140 --> 01:23:56,473
the relationship with Hungary with that . 

2015
01:23:56,473 --> 01:23:58,751
Are you back , Mr Chairman ? Thank you . 

2016
01:23:58,810 --> 01:24:00,879
Thank you , Mr Connolly . Uh I now 

2017
01:24:00,890 --> 01:24:03,740
recognize Mr Heisinger for five minutes . 

2018
01:24:05,100 --> 01:24:08,410
Yes . And then you , you're back . Ok ? 

2019
01:24:09,629 --> 01:24:10,259
To defer 

2020
01:24:15,700 --> 01:24:18,200
Mr Schneider , I yield to you for five 

2021
01:24:18,209 --> 01:24:20,990
minutes . Uh Thank you , Mr Chairman 

2022
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:23,009
and thank you for allowing me to uh 

2023
01:24:23,020 --> 01:24:25,242
wave on to the committee and , and join 

2024
01:24:25,242 --> 01:24:27,409
the conversation . I want to thank the 

2025
01:24:27,409 --> 01:24:29,464
witnesses and uh to my friend , Mr , 

2026
01:24:29,464 --> 01:24:31,687
I'm happy to go along . I've been there 

2027
01:24:31,687 --> 01:24:34,160
before . So , um you know , I thank you 

2028
01:24:34,169 --> 01:24:36,720
guys very much . We've talked a lot 

2029
01:24:36,729 --> 01:24:38,729
about NATO and the NATO alliance is 

2030
01:24:38,740 --> 01:24:40,296
truly one of the remarkable 

2031
01:24:40,296 --> 01:24:42,970
accomplishments of , of uh the last 80 

2032
01:24:42,979 --> 01:24:45,419
years and is unprecedented in global 

2033
01:24:45,430 --> 01:24:48,439
history . Uh at this moment with so 

2034
01:24:48,450 --> 01:24:50,850
many countries coming together united 

2035
01:24:50,859 --> 01:24:53,169
to defend each other , but also to 

2036
01:24:53,180 --> 01:24:55,430
defend democracy in the free world . 

2037
01:24:55,669 --> 01:24:57,836
And as we've discussed here today , we 

2038
01:24:57,836 --> 01:24:59,780
need to make sure that uh not only 

2039
01:24:59,780 --> 01:25:02,450
Finland but Sweden is able to join NATO 

2040
01:25:03,250 --> 01:25:05,569
when the Cold War ended . Uh the need 

2041
01:25:05,580 --> 01:25:08,350
for the alliance was questioned . Few 

2042
01:25:08,359 --> 01:25:10,526
could even conceive of the possibility 

2043
01:25:10,526 --> 01:25:13,700
of a land war in Europe . But Russia's 

2044
01:25:13,709 --> 01:25:15,931
illegal invasion of Ukraine has made it 

2045
01:25:15,931 --> 01:25:18,153
clear that the free world needs to work 

2046
01:25:18,153 --> 01:25:20,153
together as much as ever . And that 

2047
01:25:20,153 --> 01:25:22,899
America must lead as we have over the 

2048
01:25:22,910 --> 01:25:25,310
past year and a half . Ukraine's fight 

2049
01:25:25,319 --> 01:25:27,541
has been an inspiration from the day it 

2050
01:25:27,541 --> 01:25:29,520
was invaded and President Zelinsky 

2051
01:25:29,529 --> 01:25:32,580
refusal to leave Kiev and to lead his 

2052
01:25:32,589 --> 01:25:34,700
nation has been an inspiration to the 

2053
01:25:34,700 --> 01:25:36,645
world . It's been our privilege to 

2054
01:25:36,645 --> 01:25:38,422
support the brave Ukrainian war 

2055
01:25:38,422 --> 01:25:40,645
fighters who sacrificed and continue to 

2056
01:25:40,645 --> 01:25:43,589
sacrifice each and every day . This war 

2057
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:46,029
will end when the guns stop firing . 

2058
01:25:46,669 --> 01:25:49,770
But the peace can only begin once 

2059
01:25:49,779 --> 01:25:53,020
Ukraine has ironclad guarantees of its 

2060
01:25:53,029 --> 01:25:56,049
independence and its security . Uh What 

2061
01:25:56,060 --> 01:25:58,116
I'd like to ask both of you is , can 

2062
01:25:58,116 --> 01:26:01,529
you touch on what is significant and , 

2063
01:26:01,540 --> 01:26:04,540
and what put potential guarantees um 

2064
01:26:05,959 --> 01:26:08,240
would , would help Ukraine and , and 

2065
01:26:08,250 --> 01:26:10,259
what are the advantages and 

2066
01:26:10,270 --> 01:26:12,680
disadvantages of providing those 

2067
01:26:12,689 --> 01:26:13,689
guarantees ? 

2068
01:26:17,140 --> 01:26:19,196
I think I'll talk briefly about NATO 

2069
01:26:19,196 --> 01:26:21,069
and then pass it to his Deputy 

2070
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:24,879
Assistant Secretary , Cooper NATO , of 

2071
01:26:24,890 --> 01:26:27,001
course , provides security guarantees 

2072
01:26:27,001 --> 01:26:29,430
only to NATO allies of which Ukraine is 

2073
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:31,850
not a member . But what , what NATO is 

2074
01:26:31,859 --> 01:26:35,069
looking to do is to send 

2075
01:26:35,870 --> 01:26:39,370
rather through this longer term 

2076
01:26:39,490 --> 01:26:42,640
package of support at NATO indication 

2077
01:26:42,649 --> 01:26:44,919
of its commitment to support Ukraine in 

2078
01:26:44,930 --> 01:26:46,930
its struggle in the way that it can 

2079
01:26:46,930 --> 01:26:48,763
primarily through its non lethal 

2080
01:26:48,763 --> 01:26:50,930
assistance to complement the bilateral 

2081
01:26:50,930 --> 01:26:52,874
lethal assistance and to make that 

2082
01:26:52,874 --> 01:26:55,330
commitment not only sort of year to 

2083
01:26:55,339 --> 01:26:57,506
year as it has been done so far in the 

2084
01:26:57,506 --> 01:26:59,672
past , but to talk about a much longer 

2085
01:26:59,672 --> 01:27:01,728
term commitment to indicate the long 

2086
01:27:01,728 --> 01:27:05,609
term NATO support for Ukraine and then 

2087
01:27:05,620 --> 01:27:07,676
Congressman , I'll just fill in from 

2088
01:27:07,676 --> 01:27:09,564
the bilateral perspective , which 

2089
01:27:09,564 --> 01:27:11,620
complements this NATO perspective on 

2090
01:27:11,620 --> 01:27:14,180
how to assure Ukraine in the long term , 

2091
01:27:14,189 --> 01:27:16,133
the United States , but also other 

2092
01:27:16,133 --> 01:27:18,950
allies are considering how we can 

2093
01:27:18,959 --> 01:27:21,580
convey that long term support . And 

2094
01:27:21,589 --> 01:27:23,533
it's a security issue . So it's an 

2095
01:27:23,533 --> 01:27:25,700
issue for my department when you think 

2096
01:27:25,700 --> 01:27:27,700
about ensuring the viability of the 

2097
01:27:27,700 --> 01:27:30,033
Ukrainian armed forces in the long term . 

2098
01:27:30,033 --> 01:27:32,089
But it's also important to note that 

2099
01:27:32,089 --> 01:27:34,311
this is an economic um and recovery and 

2100
01:27:34,311 --> 01:27:36,256
reconstruction issue as well . And 

2101
01:27:36,256 --> 01:27:38,200
that's where you see um you know , 

2102
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:40,367
allies and partners coming together in 

2103
01:27:40,367 --> 01:27:42,645
London uh to talk about reconstruction . 

2104
01:27:42,645 --> 01:27:44,811
So we are engaging in these , in these 

2105
01:27:44,811 --> 01:27:47,033
conversations , um you know , privately 

2106
01:27:47,033 --> 01:27:49,214
and we are uh working on how we might 

2107
01:27:49,225 --> 01:27:51,558
be able to provide this kind of support . 

2108
01:27:51,604 --> 01:27:53,437
Great . Thank you and you know , 

2109
01:27:53,437 --> 01:27:55,620
expanding the , the view or uh 

2110
01:27:55,629 --> 01:27:57,796
expanding the focus for a second , you 

2111
01:27:57,796 --> 01:28:00,018
know , the other gray zones independent 

2112
01:28:00,018 --> 01:28:01,907
from Russia , but within striking 

2113
01:28:01,907 --> 01:28:04,073
distance is , for example , um Georgia 

2114
01:28:04,073 --> 01:28:07,959
and Moldova . Um what should we do 

2115
01:28:07,970 --> 01:28:11,520
in those circumstances ? Uh Congressman , 

2116
01:28:11,529 --> 01:28:13,696
I spend um when I'm not thinking about 

2117
01:28:13,696 --> 01:28:15,669
Ukraine or Russia , I tend to be 

2118
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:17,736
thinking about Moldova and Georgia a 

2119
01:28:17,736 --> 01:28:20,770
good deal . Um And um what we have seen 

2120
01:28:20,779 --> 01:28:22,890
is very different in both countries , 

2121
01:28:22,890 --> 01:28:25,709
but in both cases , we have um during 

2122
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:28,625
this period of crisis have redoubled 

2123
01:28:28,634 --> 01:28:31,375
our effort to have strong military to 

2124
01:28:31,384 --> 01:28:34,805
military ties and to maintain our 

2125
01:28:34,814 --> 01:28:37,334
support for these countries to be able 

2126
01:28:37,345 --> 01:28:40,265
to defend themselves . Uh Recognizing 

2127
01:28:40,274 --> 01:28:42,765
that the threat is quite real , I'll 

2128
01:28:42,774 --> 01:28:45,964
leave it at that . Ok . Am I just 

2129
01:28:45,975 --> 01:28:48,970
wanted to add that following Russia's 

2130
01:28:48,979 --> 01:28:51,090
full scale invasion of Ukraine ? NATO 

2131
01:28:51,090 --> 01:28:53,330
realized that some of its partners were 

2132
01:28:53,339 --> 01:28:55,569
at risk to Russian Malign influence and 

2133
01:28:55,580 --> 01:28:59,109
that includes Georgia Moldova , but 

2134
01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:01,399
also Bosnia Herzegovina . And it has 

2135
01:29:01,879 --> 01:29:04,549
initiated tailored packages for each 

2136
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:07,359
one to help them resist malign 

2137
01:29:07,370 --> 01:29:10,060
influence . And also the alliance will 

2138
01:29:10,069 --> 01:29:12,125
be inviting the foreign ministers of 

2139
01:29:12,125 --> 01:29:15,060
these three countries to come to the 

2140
01:29:15,069 --> 01:29:16,902
summit to meet with NATO foreign 

2141
01:29:16,902 --> 01:29:19,750
Ministers um as a as a sign of support 

2142
01:29:19,759 --> 01:29:21,926
for them and the special focus on them 

2143
01:29:21,926 --> 01:29:24,259
as , as at risk , NATO partners . Great . 

2144
01:29:24,259 --> 01:29:26,370
Thank you , my red lights on . So I'm 

2145
01:29:26,370 --> 01:29:28,537
out of time , but I would be negligent 

2146
01:29:28,537 --> 01:29:28,290
if I didn't mention I am the co chair 

2147
01:29:28,299 --> 01:29:30,259
with my friend Joe Wilson of the 

2148
01:29:30,270 --> 01:29:33,020
Bulgaria caucus . And if we had more 

2149
01:29:33,029 --> 01:29:34,918
time , uh we would talk about the 

2150
01:29:34,918 --> 01:29:36,918
Balkans as well . Uh Thank you , uh 

2151
01:29:36,918 --> 01:29:40,500
Yield Beck . Thank you chair and I 

2152
01:29:40,509 --> 01:29:42,842
recognize Mr Heisinger for five minutes . 

2153
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:45,222
Thank you , Mr Kane . I appreciate your 

2154
01:29:45,222 --> 01:29:47,389
indulgence and uh giving me a moment . 

2155
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:49,770
Uh um I had a uh I had a chance this 

2156
01:29:49,779 --> 01:29:52,549
past weekend to be in Stockholm in 

2157
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:55,000
Sweden uh with the transatlantic 

2158
01:29:55,009 --> 01:29:58,439
legislative dialogue um that uh as you 

2159
01:29:58,450 --> 01:30:00,609
can imagine , fascinating time . Uh 

2160
01:30:00,620 --> 01:30:03,319
right now , uh with uh with what's been 

2161
01:30:03,330 --> 01:30:05,270
going on , there was uh there was 

2162
01:30:05,279 --> 01:30:07,168
members of the EU parliament from 

2163
01:30:07,168 --> 01:30:09,390
Finland that were there and a number of 

2164
01:30:09,390 --> 01:30:11,668
other uh num number of other countries , 

2165
01:30:11,668 --> 01:30:14,209
uh quite a lot of conversation about uh 

2166
01:30:14,220 --> 01:30:17,160
Sweden's ascension into NATO . Uh And I 

2167
01:30:17,169 --> 01:30:20,410
just want to publicly uh again , state 

2168
01:30:20,419 --> 01:30:23,479
my support of that and uh we hope that 

2169
01:30:23,609 --> 01:30:26,009
uh those that appear to be holding this 

2170
01:30:26,020 --> 01:30:29,129
back , uh Hungary and Turkey uh that uh 

2171
01:30:29,140 --> 01:30:31,799
that they come to their senses on this 

2172
01:30:31,810 --> 01:30:34,540
and uh that they see that this would be 

2173
01:30:34,549 --> 01:30:37,279
a positive uh positive thing to uh to , 

2174
01:30:37,290 --> 01:30:40,799
to have for NATO . Um One of the , one 

2175
01:30:40,810 --> 01:30:42,699
of the issues that I discussed at 

2176
01:30:42,699 --> 01:30:44,588
length while we were there with a 

2177
01:30:44,588 --> 01:30:47,169
number of our European colleagues was 

2178
01:30:47,180 --> 01:30:49,839
the Arctic and uh what was going on uh 

2179
01:30:49,850 --> 01:30:53,850
certainly with Finland and Sweden uh uh 

2180
01:30:53,859 --> 01:30:56,250
or hopefully soon Sweden now being a 

2181
01:30:56,259 --> 01:30:58,259
part of NATO , they are part of the 

2182
01:30:58,259 --> 01:31:00,509
Arctic Council . Uh Russia is also a 

2183
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:02,353
part of that Arctic Council . Uh 

2184
01:31:02,353 --> 01:31:05,129
Incredibly China is trying to claim 

2185
01:31:05,140 --> 01:31:08,549
near Arctic uh uh status 

2186
01:31:08,859 --> 01:31:12,049
uh and seem to have a cooperation with 

2187
01:31:12,060 --> 01:31:14,227
Russia about that . In fact , uh these 

2188
01:31:14,227 --> 01:31:17,479
are published public uh uh uh uh 

2189
01:31:17,580 --> 01:31:21,430
facts that uh Canada earlier this 

2190
01:31:21,439 --> 01:31:23,990
year uh discovered Chinese listening 

2191
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:27,000
buoys in , in Canadian waters uh up in 

2192
01:31:27,009 --> 01:31:29,200
the Arctic . Uh So I've been uh I've 

2193
01:31:29,209 --> 01:31:32,810
been uh seeing that uh this is not just 

2194
01:31:33,339 --> 01:31:37,149
a uh a strategic area , 

2195
01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:40,109
valuable and ripe with uh with valuable 

2196
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:42,930
commodities and energy and minerals . 

2197
01:31:42,939 --> 01:31:45,290
It's also uh has commercial 

2198
01:31:45,299 --> 01:31:48,330
geopolitical implications and frankly 

2199
01:31:48,339 --> 01:31:51,325
security implications . And uh it's no 

2200
01:31:51,334 --> 01:31:54,794
doubt that China has uh has its eyes 

2201
01:31:54,805 --> 01:31:56,814
and designs on that . And in fact , 

2202
01:31:56,825 --> 01:31:58,769
they even has something called the 

2203
01:31:58,769 --> 01:32:02,404
Polar Silk Road uh initiative . So it 

2204
01:32:02,415 --> 01:32:04,984
cannot be ignored . Uh that uh that 

2205
01:32:04,995 --> 01:32:08,524
that area is uh RS in its importance . 

2206
01:32:08,535 --> 01:32:10,899
So uh recently I sent a letter with the 

2207
01:32:10,910 --> 01:32:13,132
support of uh uh Chairman Kaine and and 

2208
01:32:13,132 --> 01:32:14,910
fellow members of the , of this 

2209
01:32:14,910 --> 01:32:17,132
committee , Secretary Blinken , seeking 

2210
01:32:17,132 --> 01:32:19,021
States plan to bolster our Arctic 

2211
01:32:19,029 --> 01:32:21,500
allies and partners to thwart Russia 

2212
01:32:21,509 --> 01:32:23,620
and Chinese influence in the region . 

2213
01:32:23,740 --> 01:32:25,629
Uh Within the letter I pointed to 

2214
01:32:25,629 --> 01:32:27,851
Finland's ascension to NATO in addition 

2215
01:32:27,851 --> 01:32:29,796
to Sweden's pending ascension as a 

2216
01:32:29,796 --> 01:32:31,851
marker of a fundamental shift in the 

2217
01:32:31,851 --> 01:32:34,259
Arctic . Um So , uh first and foremost , 

2218
01:32:34,270 --> 01:32:36,437
uh and I guess this would be to you uh 

2219
01:32:36,437 --> 01:32:38,799
uh Deputy Assistant Secretary Jones , 

2220
01:32:39,109 --> 01:32:40,998
uh what can NATO do to expand and 

2221
01:32:40,998 --> 01:32:42,887
strengthen our partnership in the 

2222
01:32:42,887 --> 01:32:44,609
Arctic ? And is there a common 

2223
01:32:44,609 --> 01:32:46,879
understanding or a path ahead from NATO 

2224
01:32:46,890 --> 01:32:49,080
on further engagement in the Arctic 

2225
01:32:49,089 --> 01:32:51,200
region or are there some other member 

2226
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:53,089
nations that might take some more 

2227
01:32:53,089 --> 01:32:54,089
convincing ? 

2228
01:32:57,290 --> 01:33:01,140
So I agree that the Arctic is a uh area 

2229
01:33:01,149 --> 01:33:03,310
of increased um attention . It's 

2230
01:33:03,319 --> 01:33:05,509
growing geopolitic geo strategic 

2231
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:07,779
challenges and it's also rising on 

2232
01:33:07,790 --> 01:33:10,080
nato's agenda . As you mentioned , when 

2233
01:33:10,089 --> 01:33:13,750
uh Sweden and Finland , uh join the 

2234
01:33:13,759 --> 01:33:17,009
alliance . Um Then um seven of the 

2235
01:33:17,020 --> 01:33:19,187
eight Arctic nations will be in NATO . 

2236
01:33:19,490 --> 01:33:21,601
So that's a lot more of the Arctic in 

2237
01:33:21,601 --> 01:33:24,779
NATO . Um And NATO um uh 

2238
01:33:24,790 --> 01:33:27,870
also sees a rising importance there 

2239
01:33:27,879 --> 01:33:30,339
primarily as a result of Russia's 

2240
01:33:30,350 --> 01:33:32,517
increased military presence in what it 

2241
01:33:32,517 --> 01:33:34,709
calls the High North and also China . 

2242
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:36,887
Ok , we , we've got just a little over 

2243
01:33:36,887 --> 01:33:38,776
a minute now . I want to hit on a 

2244
01:33:38,776 --> 01:33:40,831
couple of other quick things . Um uh 

2245
01:33:40,831 --> 01:33:43,339
There was a 2020 2022 report titled the 

2246
01:33:43,350 --> 01:33:45,919
National Strategy for the Arctic region . 

2247
01:33:46,180 --> 01:33:48,990
Um One of the areas was sustainable 

2248
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:51,279
development capacity . Uh However , 

2249
01:33:51,290 --> 01:33:53,620
security capacity was not uh was not 

2250
01:33:53,629 --> 01:33:55,740
mentioned in that . Uh And I'm trying 

2251
01:33:55,740 --> 01:33:57,962
to push the push on . This is the Biden 

2252
01:33:57,962 --> 01:34:00,073
administration support the idea of an 

2253
01:34:00,073 --> 01:34:02,073
escalated involvement in the Arctic 

2254
01:34:02,073 --> 01:34:03,962
region , not just for development 

2255
01:34:03,962 --> 01:34:06,185
reasons and for sustainable development 

2256
01:34:06,185 --> 01:34:08,018
reasons , but for , for security 

2257
01:34:08,018 --> 01:34:11,790
reasons , you understand my distinction 

2258
01:34:11,799 --> 01:34:13,855
here , right ? I mean , the security 

2259
01:34:13,855 --> 01:34:16,419
was not and military importance and 

2260
01:34:16,430 --> 01:34:18,597
security importance wasn't discussed , 

2261
01:34:18,597 --> 01:34:20,819
but there was a lot of emphasis more on 

2262
01:34:20,819 --> 01:34:23,620
sustainability . Uh And , and I wanna 

2263
01:34:23,629 --> 01:34:25,740
make sure that we're not just focused 

2264
01:34:25,740 --> 01:34:27,962
on sustainability and green initiatives 

2265
01:34:27,962 --> 01:34:30,129
in the Arctic . I wanna make sure that 

2266
01:34:30,129 --> 01:34:31,962
we are also seeing the strategic 

2267
01:34:31,962 --> 01:34:34,629
military as well as security elements 

2268
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:37,759
uh in the Arctic . So , 

2269
01:34:38,569 --> 01:34:41,819
Congressman , I , I um you know , aside 

2270
01:34:41,830 --> 01:34:44,200
from that , that particular document , 

2271
01:34:44,209 --> 01:34:46,759
um I can just emphasize that yes , we 

2272
01:34:46,770 --> 01:34:50,020
recognize the strategic um and security 

2273
01:34:50,029 --> 01:34:53,029
dimensions of the Arctic . Um And we 

2274
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:55,270
have long recognized the the male 

2275
01:34:55,490 --> 01:34:57,979
malevolent role that Russia plays in 

2276
01:34:57,990 --> 01:35:01,060
the region and now are very mindful of 

2277
01:35:01,069 --> 01:35:03,500
watching uh China's moves . So this , 

2278
01:35:03,509 --> 01:35:05,176
this is an occupation for the 

2279
01:35:05,176 --> 01:35:06,953
Department of Defense and it is 

2280
01:35:06,953 --> 01:35:09,287
something that , that we are focused on . 

2281
01:35:09,287 --> 01:35:11,398
Ok . And I know Mr Chairman , my time 

2282
01:35:11,398 --> 01:35:13,620
is up and I'd like to follow up with uh 

2283
01:35:13,620 --> 01:35:15,731
uh some written questions through the 

2284
01:35:15,731 --> 01:35:17,953
chair to you about an Arctic uh unified 

2285
01:35:17,953 --> 01:35:20,134
Arctic NATO command uh as well as uh 

2286
01:35:20,145 --> 01:35:22,145
how NATO can address the challenges 

2287
01:35:22,145 --> 01:35:24,854
from the PR C in that Arctic security 

2288
01:35:24,865 --> 01:35:26,754
regarding Arctic security in that 

2289
01:35:26,754 --> 01:35:28,921
region . So uh with that Mr Chairman , 

2290
01:35:28,921 --> 01:35:31,087
I appreciate your indulgence and yield 

2291
01:35:31,087 --> 01:35:33,198
back without , without objection . We 

2292
01:35:33,198 --> 01:35:35,143
certainly will . Um But no further 

2293
01:35:35,143 --> 01:35:37,087
questions from members . I want to 

2294
01:35:37,087 --> 01:35:39,254
thank our witnesses for their valuable 

2295
01:35:39,254 --> 01:35:41,254
testimony and the members for their 

2296
01:35:41,254 --> 01:35:43,365
questions . In closing . I would like 

2297
01:35:43,365 --> 01:35:45,890
to make some brief remarks , Mr Jones . 

2298
01:35:45,899 --> 01:35:48,066
I appreciate the steps you laid out in 

2299
01:35:48,066 --> 01:35:50,439
reaffirming NATO allies , strong 

2300
01:35:50,450 --> 01:35:53,759
support for Ukraine . However , none of 

2301
01:35:53,770 --> 01:35:55,659
the steps you outlined to provide 

2302
01:35:55,659 --> 01:35:59,140
Ukraine a clear path to NATO membership . 

2303
01:35:59,149 --> 01:36:02,560
When conditions allow only by providing 

2304
01:36:02,569 --> 01:36:04,899
a clear path , can we signal to Putin 

2305
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:07,151
that he cannot achieve his objectives 

2306
01:36:07,151 --> 01:36:09,151
on the battlefield and he will lose 

2307
01:36:09,151 --> 01:36:11,799
this war , our allies from Poland to 

2308
01:36:11,810 --> 01:36:14,220
the Baltic States to even now , France 

2309
01:36:14,850 --> 01:36:17,819
are pushing for a clearer path . US 

2310
01:36:17,830 --> 01:36:20,500
leadership is required to get this over 

2311
01:36:20,509 --> 01:36:22,676
the finish line . And I fear from what 

2312
01:36:22,676 --> 01:36:24,676
I've heard today that the US may in 

2313
01:36:24,676 --> 01:36:26,898
fact be impeding this critical effort . 

2314
01:36:26,970 --> 01:36:30,529
The US needs to do more then simply put 

2315
01:36:30,540 --> 01:36:32,830
window dressing on the 2008 Bucharest 

2316
01:36:32,839 --> 01:36:35,500
pledge . The members of the 

2317
01:36:35,509 --> 01:36:37,620
subcommittee may have some additional 

2318
01:36:37,620 --> 01:36:39,842
written questions for the witnesses and 

2319
01:36:39,842 --> 01:36:41,787
that we will ask you to respond to 

2320
01:36:41,787 --> 01:36:44,009
these promptly in writing . Pursuant to 

2321
01:36:44,009 --> 01:36:46,120
the committee rules , all members may 

2322
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:47,842
have five days submit , submit 

2323
01:36:47,842 --> 01:36:49,842
statements , questions , extraneous 

2324
01:36:49,842 --> 01:36:51,953
materials for the record , subject to 

2325
01:36:51,953 --> 01:36:54,231
length limitations . Without objection . 

2326
01:36:54,231 --> 01:36:55,259
The subcommittee stands adjourned .