WEBVTT 00:00.009 --> 00:02.890 This , the subcommittee on Europe , the 00:02.900 --> 00:04.956 House Foreign Affairs Committee will 00:04.956 --> 00:07.119 come to order the purpose of this 00:07.130 --> 00:09.899 hearing is to discuss us policy towards 00:09.909 --> 00:12.340 Europe and NATO as well as us and 00:12.350 --> 00:16.149 allied support to Ukraine in advance of 00:16.159 --> 00:20.000 the July NATO leaders summit . I now 00:20.010 --> 00:21.879 recognize myself for an opening 00:21.889 --> 00:25.739 statement next month in Vilnius NATO 00:25.750 --> 00:27.920 members , states will meet to discuss 00:27.930 --> 00:29.652 the greatest and most pressing 00:29.652 --> 00:31.874 challenges facing the alliance with the 00:31.874 --> 00:34.041 largest land war in Europe since world 00:34.041 --> 00:36.299 war two go ongoing a rising and 00:36.310 --> 00:38.490 increasingly aggressive China and 00:38.500 --> 00:40.669 Finland and hopefully Sweden joining 00:40.680 --> 00:42.529 the alliance , there will be no 00:42.540 --> 00:46.459 shortage of issues to discuss . There 00:46.470 --> 00:48.279 is strong bipartisan support in 00:48.290 --> 00:51.110 Congress for NATO for decades . NATO 00:51.119 --> 00:53.520 has served as a cornerstone of American 00:53.529 --> 00:55.869 national security and underpinned our 00:55.880 --> 00:57.991 relationship with our closest friends 00:57.991 --> 01:00.860 and trade partners in Europe . All of 01:00.869 --> 01:03.080 us in this room remember our NATO 01:03.090 --> 01:04.979 allies came together in America's 01:04.979 --> 01:07.034 defense in the aftermath of the 9 11 01:07.034 --> 01:09.201 attacks , which was the first and only 01:09.201 --> 01:11.368 time that NATO'S article five was ever 01:11.368 --> 01:14.360 invoked on Ukraine . I firmly believe 01:14.370 --> 01:16.537 that NATO allies must leave the summon 01:16.537 --> 01:19.819 Villus with a clear path charted for 01:19.830 --> 01:21.719 Ukraine to join the alliance once 01:21.719 --> 01:25.000 conditions allow , I am concerned by 01:25.010 --> 01:27.339 reporting that the US and Germany are 01:27.349 --> 01:29.460 resistant to the alliances , making a 01:29.460 --> 01:31.293 stronger political commitment to 01:31.293 --> 01:34.089 Ukraine . One that's 15 years overdue 01:35.150 --> 01:37.599 at the 2008 NATO leaders summit in 01:37.610 --> 01:39.889 Bucharest , all NATO allies agreed that 01:39.900 --> 01:42.122 Ukraine would become a member of NATO . 01:42.519 --> 01:44.839 Since then , NATO has only repeated 01:44.849 --> 01:47.769 that vague promise again and again , 01:48.849 --> 01:51.016 in that time , we've learned that NATO 01:51.016 --> 01:53.071 waiting game , waiting room is not a 01:53.071 --> 01:55.279 safe place to be . Ukraine has 01:55.290 --> 01:57.819 repeatedly suffered overt and covert 01:57.830 --> 02:00.480 aggression from Russia now including a 02:00.489 --> 02:03.110 full scale war of national survival . 02:04.410 --> 02:06.410 Federal NATO membership is the most 02:06.410 --> 02:08.577 solid guarantee against future Russian 02:08.577 --> 02:10.743 aggression . Providing a clear path to 02:10.743 --> 02:12.966 that membership will signal to Vladimir 02:12.966 --> 02:14.854 Putin that he will not be able to 02:14.854 --> 02:16.854 achieve his goals in Ukraine on the 02:16.854 --> 02:19.520 battlefield . This is critical to prove 02:19.529 --> 02:21.418 to him that Russia cannot outlast 02:21.418 --> 02:23.440 Ukraine's backers nor determine the 02:23.449 --> 02:25.560 sovereign foreign policy decisions of 02:25.560 --> 02:28.550 his neighbors through war until Ukraine 02:28.559 --> 02:30.670 is a full fledged member of NATO . It 02:30.670 --> 02:32.392 will require concrete security 02:32.392 --> 02:34.559 guarantees to help win the current war 02:34.559 --> 02:37.119 and deter any future Russian aggression . 02:39.149 --> 02:41.320 I believe the United States must be 02:41.330 --> 02:43.608 actively involved in these discussions . 02:43.639 --> 02:45.990 But implementing such guarantees will 02:46.000 --> 02:48.000 require Congress to appropriate the 02:48.000 --> 02:49.880 necessary funds as such . The 02:49.889 --> 02:51.945 administration must engage with this 02:51.945 --> 02:54.419 committee and this chamber on strategy 02:54.429 --> 02:55.929 to allow us to conduct our 02:55.929 --> 02:57.929 constitutionally mandated oversight 02:57.929 --> 03:01.149 responsibilities . Importantly , like 03:01.160 --> 03:03.327 with Israel , the guarantees under the 03:03.327 --> 03:05.559 consideration will include uh continued 03:05.570 --> 03:07.626 and reliable security assistance for 03:07.626 --> 03:09.792 years to come , to ensure that Ukraine 03:09.792 --> 03:12.619 can deter future Russian aggression . 03:13.270 --> 03:16.300 Therefore , I'm glad to have a SD 03:16.369 --> 03:18.809 Cooper here to discuss the weapons . 03:19.020 --> 03:21.000 Ukraine needs not only to defeat 03:21.009 --> 03:23.789 Putin's invading forces , but also to 03:23.800 --> 03:25.911 ensure that we don't have a repeat of 03:25.911 --> 03:29.669 2014 and 20,022 once 03:29.679 --> 03:33.190 Putin's regime rebuilds its forces . In 03:33.199 --> 03:35.366 addition , I hope to hear from both of 03:35.366 --> 03:36.810 our witnesses and why the 03:36.810 --> 03:38.921 administration has refused to provide 03:38.921 --> 03:40.977 Ukraine with critical weapon systems 03:41.789 --> 03:43.845 that could make a real difference on 03:43.845 --> 03:45.956 the battlefield like attack comes and 03:45.956 --> 03:48.259 picks . In fact , just yesterday , this 03:48.270 --> 03:49.992 committee passed my bipartisan 03:49.992 --> 03:52.048 resolution calling for the immediate 03:52.048 --> 03:54.940 transfer of attacks to Ukraine . I was 03:54.949 --> 03:57.116 honored to be joined in that effort by 03:57.116 --> 03:59.339 ranking member Keating a true ally in 03:59.350 --> 04:02.350 this fight beyond Ukraine . There's 04:02.360 --> 04:04.527 great hope that NATO allies will agree 04:04.527 --> 04:07.289 at next month's summit to make a firm 04:07.300 --> 04:10.259 commence on burden sharing , namely by 04:10.270 --> 04:12.492 clarifying that nato's defense spending 04:12.492 --> 04:15.119 target of 2% of GDP should be 04:15.130 --> 04:18.619 considered a floor and not a ceiling . 04:20.028 --> 04:22.139 This 2% target was first agreed to by 04:22.139 --> 04:25.118 all NATO allies in the summit of 2014 , 04:25.128 --> 04:27.760 nearly a decade ago . Yet , even as the 04:27.769 --> 04:29.713 threats from Russia and China grow 04:29.713 --> 04:31.713 every day , there are still far too 04:31.713 --> 04:33.769 many NATO allies that failed to meet 04:33.769 --> 04:35.869 this target . Expect to hear from Mr 04:35.880 --> 04:38.679 Jones about the US plans to press our 04:38.690 --> 04:41.230 allies at next month's summit to live 04:41.239 --> 04:43.295 up to their commitments and to share 04:43.295 --> 04:45.295 the burden of collective security . 04:45.295 --> 04:47.183 Speaking of China , the strategic 04:47.183 --> 04:49.950 concept , the NATO released last year 04:50.459 --> 04:52.570 said quote , the People's Republic of 04:52.570 --> 04:55.290 China stated ambitions and coercive 04:55.299 --> 04:57.640 policies challenge our interest , 04:57.649 --> 05:00.790 security and values . It is vitally 05:00.799 --> 05:02.521 important that our NATO allies 05:02.521 --> 05:04.959 recognize and address the threat posed 05:04.970 --> 05:08.670 to all of us by the CCP . Our 05:08.679 --> 05:10.790 security will be at serious risk . We 05:10.790 --> 05:13.279 allow China to own our critical 05:13.290 --> 05:15.401 infrastructure , infiltrate our , our 05:15.401 --> 05:17.512 sense of industries and to expand its 05:17.512 --> 05:20.359 influence to pursue its malign agenda . 05:20.720 --> 05:23.779 Lastly , I hope Mr Jones stay can 05:23.790 --> 05:25.901 provide an update on Sweden's efforts 05:25.901 --> 05:27.957 to join the alliance . I was pleased 05:27.957 --> 05:30.012 that NATO welcomed Finland at its as 05:30.012 --> 05:32.700 its 31st member in April , but Sweden's 05:32.709 --> 05:35.429 applications has remained stalled for 05:35.440 --> 05:39.350 far too long . Turkey and Hungary 05:39.359 --> 05:41.910 stonewalling is deeply concerning and I 05:41.920 --> 05:43.976 hope that they will ratify this very 05:43.976 --> 05:46.087 capable partner to join this alliance 05:46.087 --> 05:48.399 by the summit next month . I wanna once 05:48.410 --> 05:50.521 again , thank thank our witnesses for 05:50.521 --> 05:52.632 being with us today . And with that , 05:52.632 --> 05:54.854 I'll now turn to ranking member Keating 05:54.854 --> 05:56.966 for his opening remarks . Thank you , 05:56.966 --> 05:59.132 Mr Chairman for holding this important 05:59.132 --> 06:02.570 hearing uh as has been proven by the 06:02.579 --> 06:04.690 bipartisan interest in this hearing , 06:04.690 --> 06:06.635 congressional support for NATO and 06:06.635 --> 06:09.619 Ukraine remains steadfast . Uh I look 06:09.630 --> 06:11.797 forward to continuing to work with you 06:11.797 --> 06:13.797 on these issues as we have with the 06:13.797 --> 06:15.797 recent resolution . We introduced a 06:15.797 --> 06:18.019 calling subject to uh our own readiness 06:18.019 --> 06:20.074 needs . Calling for the president to 06:20.074 --> 06:22.297 provide attacks to Ukraine which I hope 06:22.297 --> 06:24.408 will see the floor soon . I also want 06:24.408 --> 06:26.186 to thank the witnesses for your 06:26.186 --> 06:28.352 tireless efforts to support Ukraine in 06:28.352 --> 06:30.574 their fight for freedom against Russian 06:30.574 --> 06:32.630 aggression . Together along with our 06:32.630 --> 06:32.609 colleagues across the US government , 06:32.899 --> 06:34.955 you work to provide Ukraine with the 06:34.955 --> 06:37.079 military , economic and humanitarian 06:37.089 --> 06:39.670 support . They need to win the war and 06:39.679 --> 06:42.809 to secure their future . In response to 06:42.820 --> 06:44.880 Vladimir Putin's criminal war and 06:44.890 --> 06:46.890 illegal occupation of Ukraine . The 06:46.890 --> 06:49.112 Biden administration has coordinated uh 06:49.112 --> 06:51.579 more than 50 country response with 06:51.589 --> 06:54.179 transatlantic alliances as well and our 06:54.190 --> 06:56.609 own global partners . Uh to this effort 06:56.619 --> 06:58.619 through these efforts , like-minded 06:58.619 --> 07:00.841 partners have worked to support Ukraine 07:00.850 --> 07:02.850 on the battlefield , providing safe 07:02.850 --> 07:04.850 haven for those fleeing violence at 07:04.850 --> 07:06.794 home . And and also to ensure that 07:06.794 --> 07:08.628 vital governmental and community 07:08.628 --> 07:10.572 services from schools to hospitals 07:10.572 --> 07:12.350 through their own utilities can 07:12.350 --> 07:14.929 literally keep the lights on as part of 07:14.940 --> 07:17.630 these ongoing efforts . Leaders from 07:17.640 --> 07:19.751 across the NATO Alliance will meet in 07:19.751 --> 07:21.918 this next month to discuss current and 07:21.918 --> 07:24.084 future challenges as well as the steps 07:24.084 --> 07:26.084 we must take together to ensure our 07:26.084 --> 07:28.470 collective security . One such step 07:28.480 --> 07:30.591 which I believe is vital is the swift 07:30.591 --> 07:32.702 approval of Sweden's ascension to the 07:32.702 --> 07:34.702 into the alliance . Last Congress I 07:34.702 --> 07:36.758 introduced legislation that welcomed 07:36.758 --> 07:39.179 the as accession of Sweden and Finland 07:39.190 --> 07:41.459 into NATO two countries that have 07:41.470 --> 07:44.239 incredible military might . Uh And that 07:44.250 --> 07:46.739 are inter operable already with our 07:46.750 --> 07:49.390 alliance . This legislation passed with 07:49.399 --> 07:51.455 bipartisan support and I'm glad that 07:51.455 --> 07:53.779 Finland is now squarely in line for 07:53.790 --> 07:56.190 NATO . And today , uh while I am 07:56.200 --> 07:58.367 encouraged by the Hungarian Parliament 07:58.367 --> 08:00.589 and the fact that they have scheduled a 08:00.589 --> 08:02.811 vote on the matter , I continue to call 08:02.811 --> 08:04.756 on Hungarian and Turkish allies to 08:04.756 --> 08:07.089 approve their application expeditiously . 08:07.089 --> 08:09.033 I hope Sweden's membership will be 08:09.033 --> 08:10.922 approved soon to ensure we remain 08:10.922 --> 08:12.867 united in our response to Russia's 08:12.867 --> 08:15.519 aggression in Ukraine . In addition , I 08:15.529 --> 08:17.751 believe that NATO members must recommit 08:17.751 --> 08:19.529 to increase defense spending in 08:19.529 --> 08:21.140 response to Vladimir Putin's 08:21.140 --> 08:23.140 increasingly aggressive posturing . 08:23.140 --> 08:25.140 Vladimir Putin has already made his 08:25.140 --> 08:27.429 imperialistic fantasies known when in a 08:27.440 --> 08:29.551 series of letters and memos exchanged 08:29.551 --> 08:31.607 between the US and Russia . Prior to 08:31.607 --> 08:33.662 the full scale invasion of Ukraine , 08:33.662 --> 08:35.607 Russia request that the US prevent 08:35.607 --> 08:37.773 further eastward expansion of NATO and 08:37.773 --> 08:40.520 and disarming 50% of the current NATO 08:40.530 --> 08:43.369 country's capabilities and also making 08:43.380 --> 08:45.489 direct threats to members of the 08:45.500 --> 08:48.299 alliance . We must take these threats 08:48.309 --> 08:50.420 seriously to deter Russian aggression 08:50.420 --> 08:52.142 while many NATO countries have 08:52.142 --> 08:54.690 succeeded in reaching 2% . We must now 08:54.700 --> 08:57.479 view this goal as a floor rather than a 08:57.489 --> 08:59.739 ceiling . I also look forward to 08:59.750 --> 09:01.694 discussions at the Wildness Summit 09:01.694 --> 09:03.861 regarding Ukraine's continued progress 09:03.861 --> 09:05.750 towards NATO ascension . Much has 09:05.760 --> 09:07.927 already been said and discussed on the 09:07.927 --> 09:10.149 topic and Ukraine has clearly surpassed 09:10.149 --> 09:12.204 the security relationship that would 09:12.204 --> 09:14.149 traditionally warrant a membership 09:14.149 --> 09:16.038 action plan while discussions are 09:16.038 --> 09:18.093 ongoing . I've been clear that after 09:18.093 --> 09:20.260 this war is over , Ukraine will emerge 09:20.260 --> 09:22.482 as one of if not one of the strongest , 09:22.482 --> 09:24.316 the second strongest , most well 09:24.316 --> 09:26.427 equipped military in Europe . We must 09:26.427 --> 09:28.482 show unity at the Villa summit and I 09:28.482 --> 09:30.649 remain confident that NATO allies will 09:30.649 --> 09:32.760 continue to use the vast resources of 09:32.760 --> 09:34.538 our historic alliance to ensure 09:34.538 --> 09:37.679 Ukraine's self defense . The European 09:37.690 --> 09:40.690 Union has also stepped up as of May 09:40.700 --> 09:44.260 23rd , providing over $78 billion in 09:44.270 --> 09:46.270 financial military humanitarian and 09:46.270 --> 09:48.580 refugee assistance . This includes over 09:48.590 --> 09:50.757 $41 billion in financial and budgetary 09:50.757 --> 09:53.090 support , 18 billion in support of 09:53.099 --> 09:55.690 Ukrainian refugees and over 18 billion 09:55.700 --> 09:58.099 in military assistance such as 09:58.109 --> 10:00.489 ammunition and air defenses , leopard 10:00.500 --> 10:03.510 tanks and fighter jets . The eu is also 10:03.520 --> 10:05.742 currently the largest military training 10:05.742 --> 10:07.929 provider to the Ukrainian armed forces 10:08.020 --> 10:10.187 and will have trained more than 30,000 10:10.187 --> 10:12.590 Ukrainian military personnel by the end 10:12.599 --> 10:15.729 of the year to conclude , I want to 10:15.739 --> 10:18.039 briefly address China in the Indo 10:18.059 --> 10:19.670 Pacific having served in the 10:19.670 --> 10:21.670 subcommittee for many years . Now , 10:21.670 --> 10:23.837 I've always believed that while Russia 10:23.837 --> 10:25.559 poses the greatest risk to our 10:25.559 --> 10:27.809 collective security today , in the long 10:27.820 --> 10:29.710 term , China represents the great 10:29.719 --> 10:31.552 threat to our alliance . We must 10:31.552 --> 10:33.609 consider our relationship with China 10:33.859 --> 10:36.719 derisk wherever possible and bring 10:36.729 --> 10:39.619 critical supply chains back home . We 10:39.630 --> 10:42.000 must also invest in our partnership in 10:42.010 --> 10:43.677 the Indo Pacific providing an 10:43.677 --> 10:46.200 alternative democratic way forward with 10:46.210 --> 10:48.830 like minding partners . Unfortunately , 10:48.840 --> 10:50.951 as the war in Ukraine is at a pivotal 10:50.951 --> 10:53.539 stage and China priori prioritizes 10:53.549 --> 10:55.549 their foreign assistance budget and 10:55.549 --> 10:57.549 increase increases their diplomatic 10:57.549 --> 10:59.789 expenditures by 12% . In the coming 10:59.799 --> 11:02.021 year . Republican House leadership have 11:02.021 --> 11:05.090 proposed a 22% budget cut of us foreign 11:05.099 --> 11:07.520 assistance . Well , I know my 11:07.530 --> 11:09.697 Republican colleagues recognize Russia 11:09.697 --> 11:11.752 and China as a threat . Their budget 11:11.752 --> 11:14.000 says otherwise with that , I want to 11:14.010 --> 11:16.232 thank our witnesses for joining us here 11:16.232 --> 11:18.343 today in this timely discussion and I 11:18.343 --> 11:21.950 yield back . Thank you . Thank you 11:21.960 --> 11:24.919 member Keating uh two quick procedural 11:25.190 --> 11:27.869 motions . The first is I ask your name , 11:27.880 --> 11:29.713 his consent . The gentleman from 11:29.713 --> 11:31.824 Pennsylvania , Mr Fitzpatrick and the 11:31.824 --> 11:33.880 gentleman from Ohio . Mr Turner , be 11:33.880 --> 11:35.547 allowed to sit on the dia and 11:35.547 --> 11:37.769 participate following all other members 11:37.769 --> 11:40.330 in today's hearing without objection . 11:40.340 --> 11:43.030 So ordered . Second , I would like to 11:43.039 --> 11:45.206 welcome the gentleman in Virginia , Mr 11:45.206 --> 11:46.983 Connolly and the gentleman from 11:46.983 --> 11:49.039 Illinois Mr Schneider for joining us 11:49.039 --> 11:51.261 today . They will participate following 11:51.261 --> 11:53.428 all other members in today's hearing . 11:55.340 --> 11:57.451 Other members of the subcommittee are 11:57.451 --> 11:59.673 reminded that opening statements may be 11:59.673 --> 12:01.507 submitted for the record . We're 12:01.507 --> 12:03.618 pleased to have a distinguished panel 12:03.618 --> 12:05.673 of witnesses before us today on this 12:05.673 --> 12:07.784 important topic . Mr Douglas Jones is 12:07.784 --> 12:09.673 Deputy Assistant Secretary in the 12:09.673 --> 12:11.896 Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs 12:11.896 --> 12:13.951 at the Department of State and he is 12:13.951 --> 12:16.118 joined by MS Laura Cooper , who is the 12:16.118 --> 12:18.229 Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense 12:18.229 --> 12:20.451 for Russia , Ukraine and Eurasia at the 12:20.451 --> 12:22.618 Department of Defense . Thank you both 12:22.618 --> 12:24.729 for being here . Your full statements 12:24.729 --> 12:26.896 will be made part of the record . I'll 12:26.896 --> 12:26.320 ask each of you to keep your verbal 12:26.330 --> 12:29.059 remarks to five minutes in order to 12:29.070 --> 12:31.292 allow for time for member questions . I 12:31.292 --> 12:33.459 now recognize Mr Jones for his opening 12:33.459 --> 12:34.459 statement . 12:37.510 --> 12:39.843 Chairman Kaine , ranking member Keating , 12:40.119 --> 12:42.341 thank you for the invitation to testify 12:42.700 --> 12:44.700 and for the committee's support for 12:44.700 --> 12:47.140 NATO . Your bipartisan leadership and 12:47.150 --> 12:49.179 engagement including in the NATO 12:49.190 --> 12:51.469 parliamentary Assembly reminds our 12:51.479 --> 12:53.146 allies that the United States 12:53.146 --> 12:55.250 commitment to NATO remains robust , 12:55.260 --> 12:58.960 durable and unwavering Russia's 12:58.969 --> 13:01.150 brutal full scale invasion of Ukraine 13:01.280 --> 13:03.179 following its previous nine year 13:03.190 --> 13:05.134 campaign of aggression and illegal 13:05.134 --> 13:07.650 occupation of Crimea has reaffirmed the 13:07.659 --> 13:09.159 critical importance of the 13:09.159 --> 13:11.000 transatlantic alliance . It has 13:11.010 --> 13:14.270 galvanized allied unity driven allies 13:14.280 --> 13:16.113 to enhance the defense of allied 13:16.113 --> 13:18.002 territory and strengthened allied 13:18.002 --> 13:20.169 commitment to the democratic values on 13:20.169 --> 13:22.770 which the alliance is built at the NATO 13:22.780 --> 13:25.369 summit in Vilnius in July . Allies will 13:25.380 --> 13:27.269 take decisions to strengthen NATO 13:27.269 --> 13:29.436 across three broad areas . I'd like to 13:29.436 --> 13:31.460 speak to each briefly . 13:32.880 --> 13:36.090 First we will see in Vilnius , a strong 13:36.099 --> 13:39.190 United NATO allies will reinforce our 13:39.200 --> 13:42.109 unity and resolve to support Ukraine in 13:42.119 --> 13:44.230 the fight to defend its sovereignty , 13:44.230 --> 13:46.539 territorial integrity , democracy and 13:46.549 --> 13:49.179 the right to choose its own path . At 13:49.260 --> 13:51.580 Vilnius NATO will commit to a package 13:51.590 --> 13:53.757 of political and practical support for 13:53.757 --> 13:55.479 Ukraine that will build on our 13:55.479 --> 13:57.534 bilateral support . Over the past 16 13:57.534 --> 14:00.929 months . Since February 2022 the United 14:00.940 --> 14:02.829 States has provided more than $40 14:02.829 --> 14:04.690 billion in bilateral security 14:04.700 --> 14:07.219 assistance to Ukraine . More than 50 14:07.229 --> 14:10.130 other nations including our NATO allies 14:10.140 --> 14:12.307 acting bilaterally through the Ukraine 14:12.307 --> 14:14.307 Defense contact group have provided 14:14.307 --> 14:16.700 Ukraine with approximately 32 billion 14:16.710 --> 14:20.020 in lethal aid . NATO itself has 14:20.030 --> 14:22.039 complimented this bilateral lethal 14:22.049 --> 14:24.369 assistance to Ukraine's military with 14:24.380 --> 14:27.229 non lethal support totalling $82 14:27.239 --> 14:30.140 million with another 110 million in the 14:30.150 --> 14:32.239 pipeline to nato's comprehensive 14:32.250 --> 14:35.710 assistance package for Ukraine and more 14:35.719 --> 14:39.159 support is on the way . Second , 14:39.880 --> 14:42.102 NATO will strengthen its deterrence and 14:42.102 --> 14:44.102 defense in support of our iron clad 14:44.102 --> 14:46.789 article five obligations . Allies are 14:46.799 --> 14:49.159 completing the full implementation of 14:49.169 --> 14:51.500 nato's new fit for purpose force model 14:51.580 --> 14:53.691 to fortify the alliance's readiness , 14:54.330 --> 14:56.386 working to deepen defense production 14:56.450 --> 14:58.739 and updating defense plans for all 14:58.750 --> 15:00.917 allied territory that will address the 15:00.917 --> 15:02.917 heightened threat on nato's eastern 15:02.917 --> 15:05.840 flank and the new land , sea , air 15:05.849 --> 15:07.960 cyber and space security challenges . 15:09.299 --> 15:11.077 The alliance is also working to 15:11.077 --> 15:12.743 strengthen the whales defense 15:12.743 --> 15:14.743 investment pledge which states that 15:14.743 --> 15:16.577 allies aim to spend 2% of GDP on 15:16.577 --> 15:20.359 defense by 2024 . As of today , eight 15:20.369 --> 15:22.799 allies are meeting or exceeding the 2% 15:22.809 --> 15:26.190 target . Another nine are on track to 15:26.200 --> 15:30.130 do so . By next year , 2023 will mark 15:30.140 --> 15:32.251 the ninth consecutive year of defense 15:32.251 --> 15:34.362 spending growth in real terms for non 15:34.362 --> 15:38.229 US allies with more than $350 billion 15:38.239 --> 15:40.350 in additional defense spending by non 15:40.350 --> 15:44.080 us allies since 2014 . But 15:44.090 --> 15:46.940 this is not enough allies need to do 15:46.950 --> 15:49.710 more and allies will commit to a new 15:49.719 --> 15:51.830 enhanced defense investment pledge in 15:51.830 --> 15:55.250 Vilnius . Finally , even as NATO sees 15:55.260 --> 15:57.204 Russia as the most significant and 15:57.204 --> 15:59.369 direct threat to security , peace and 15:59.380 --> 16:02.190 stability in the Euro Atlantic area . 16:02.609 --> 16:05.419 NATO faces other challenges . The PRC 16:05.450 --> 16:08.390 first among them , this brings me to my 16:08.400 --> 16:10.960 third point at Vilnius . NATO intends 16:10.969 --> 16:13.080 to strengthen its global partnerships 16:13.080 --> 16:15.025 in the Indo Pacific and the global 16:15.025 --> 16:17.191 South . For the second time , heads of 16:17.191 --> 16:19.309 state from Australia , Japan , New 16:19.320 --> 16:21.219 Zealand and South Korea have been 16:21.229 --> 16:23.396 invited to a NATO summit to coordinate 16:23.396 --> 16:25.618 on shared security challenges including 16:25.618 --> 16:29.549 the PRC at NATO'S 1949 inception 16:29.559 --> 16:31.729 here in Washington , President Truman 16:31.739 --> 16:33.795 called the alliance a shield against 16:33.795 --> 16:36.909 aggression for 74 years . It has proven 16:36.919 --> 16:38.808 to be the world's most successful 16:38.808 --> 16:40.697 defensive alliance extending that 16:40.697 --> 16:43.469 shield of collective security from 12 16:43.479 --> 16:46.969 to now , 31 allies and soon 32 16:47.700 --> 16:50.090 having Finland and hopefully soon 16:50.099 --> 16:52.049 Sweden in the alliance makes it 16:52.059 --> 16:54.669 stronger , more capable and more secure 16:55.409 --> 16:57.576 as we looked at the Vilnius summit and 16:57.576 --> 17:00.049 beyond to the 2024 NATO summit here in 17:00.059 --> 17:02.580 Washington , the power of that shield 17:02.890 --> 17:05.619 providing security to nearly 1 billion 17:05.630 --> 17:07.969 citizens of NATO countries remains as 17:07.979 --> 17:10.810 strong as ever . Thank you for inviting 17:10.819 --> 17:12.819 me today and I look forward to your 17:12.819 --> 17:16.609 questions . Thank you , 17:16.619 --> 17:19.339 Mr Jones and now recognize MS Cooper 17:19.510 --> 17:21.066 for her opening statement , 17:23.198 --> 17:25.420 Chairman Kaine , ranking member Keating 17:25.420 --> 17:27.476 members of the committee . Thank you 17:27.476 --> 17:29.609 very much for this opportunity at the 17:29.619 --> 17:31.230 Department of Defense . I am 17:31.230 --> 17:33.588 responsible for policy regarding 17:33.649 --> 17:36.698 Ukraine . Russia , Belarus 17:36.788 --> 17:39.458 Moldova , the South Caucasus and 17:39.468 --> 17:42.130 Central Asia . Today , I want to focus 17:42.140 --> 17:45.060 my remarks on the US policy response to 17:45.069 --> 17:47.250 Russia's aggression in Ukraine and in 17:47.260 --> 17:49.890 particular , our work alongside allies 17:49.900 --> 17:52.180 and partners to provide Ukrainian 17:52.189 --> 17:54.449 forces with the capabilities and the 17:54.459 --> 17:56.292 training they need to defend the 17:56.292 --> 17:58.760 Ukrainian people and repel Russia's 17:58.770 --> 18:01.540 invasion . Our objective in Ukraine is 18:01.550 --> 18:04.130 to ensure the existence of a free , 18:04.140 --> 18:07.040 prosperous and democratic Ukraine that 18:07.050 --> 18:09.359 can defend itself and deter further 18:09.369 --> 18:11.469 Russian aggression . Ukraine is 18:11.479 --> 18:13.535 attempting to liberate its territory 18:13.535 --> 18:15.550 from Russian occupation or control 18:15.599 --> 18:17.390 including in the latest counter 18:17.400 --> 18:20.109 offensive . Ukraine is well prepared 18:20.119 --> 18:22.739 and equipped . Although the course of 18:22.750 --> 18:26.119 war is dynamic and unpredictable , we 18:26.130 --> 18:27.979 do have great confidence in the 18:27.989 --> 18:30.540 training capabilities and preparedness 18:30.550 --> 18:32.790 of the Ukrainian armed forces . The 18:32.800 --> 18:34.800 security assistance that the United 18:34.800 --> 18:37.022 States and our allies and partners have 18:37.022 --> 18:38.911 provided is substantial and those 18:38.911 --> 18:41.349 resources reflect the shared interests 18:41.359 --> 18:44.250 and values that are at stake . Russia's 18:44.260 --> 18:46.093 war of aggression is a clear and 18:46.093 --> 18:48.149 present danger not only to Ukraine , 18:48.149 --> 18:50.204 but to the security of Europe and to 18:50.204 --> 18:52.427 the basic principles of sovereignty and 18:52.427 --> 18:54.316 territorial integrity that uphold 18:54.316 --> 18:56.989 global stability . Russia's atrocities 18:57.000 --> 18:59.390 in Ukraine are an assault on our common 18:59.400 --> 19:01.979 values and our common humanity in a 19:01.989 --> 19:04.430 crisis of this magnitude one that 19:04.439 --> 19:06.550 implicates our national interests and 19:06.550 --> 19:08.599 values and those of the larger free 19:08.609 --> 19:11.010 world , the United States must lead 19:11.160 --> 19:13.160 when we lead with determination and 19:13.160 --> 19:16.479 purpose . Our friends also respond for 19:16.489 --> 19:18.433 evidence , consider the collective 19:18.433 --> 19:20.790 contributions of the group of 50 plus 19:20.800 --> 19:23.310 nations . Secretary Austin has 19:23.319 --> 19:25.152 assembled in the Ukraine defense 19:25.152 --> 19:27.589 contact group . Last week , I joined 19:27.599 --> 19:29.680 Secretary Austin in Brussels to 19:29.689 --> 19:32.670 participate in the 13 th meeting of the 19:32.680 --> 19:35.209 contact group where we discussed how we 19:35.219 --> 19:37.380 can collectively address Ukraine's 19:37.390 --> 19:39.819 priority requirements both for the 19:39.829 --> 19:42.709 immediate fight but also increasingly 19:42.719 --> 19:45.670 for the longer term . All told , we 19:45.680 --> 19:47.569 have marshaled over 28 billion in 19:47.569 --> 19:49.624 security assistance commitments from 19:49.624 --> 19:51.680 allies and partners including in top 19:51.680 --> 19:53.791 priority areas of air defense , armor 19:53.791 --> 19:56.959 and artillery . Nine European countries 19:56.969 --> 19:59.520 have contributed more than a billion 19:59.530 --> 20:02.109 dollars each . You can put these 20:02.119 --> 20:05.199 figures in perspective if you consider 20:05.209 --> 20:07.449 security assistance to Ukraine as a 20:07.459 --> 20:11.160 percentage of GDP . By that measure , 20:11.260 --> 20:13.316 the United States actually currently 20:13.316 --> 20:17.170 ranks 12th globally . It's also helpful 20:17.180 --> 20:19.236 to break down the contributions into 20:19.236 --> 20:21.619 categories of capabilities . For 20:21.630 --> 20:25.140 example , over half of all the tanks , 20:25.180 --> 20:27.709 armored personnel carriers and infantry 20:27.719 --> 20:30.540 fighting vehicles provided to Ukraine 20:30.589 --> 20:33.699 are from allies and partners , not from 20:33.709 --> 20:35.930 the United States . Over half of the 20:35.939 --> 20:39.290 105 5 millimeter artillery systems are 20:39.300 --> 20:42.949 from allies and partners . Over half of 20:42.959 --> 20:44.930 the counter unmanned aerial system 20:44.939 --> 20:47.349 capabilities and about half of the 20:47.359 --> 20:50.079 stingers and javelin missiles are from 20:50.089 --> 20:52.869 allies and partners . Moreover , our 20:52.880 --> 20:55.047 allies and partners are having a major 20:55.047 --> 20:57.160 impact in training Ukrainian forces . 20:57.540 --> 21:00.709 In fact , allies have trained more than 21:00.719 --> 21:03.040 three times the number of Ukrainian 21:03.050 --> 21:05.050 soldiers that the United States has 21:05.050 --> 21:08.010 trained coalitions of allies are 21:08.020 --> 21:11.130 starting to emerge to focus on certain 21:11.140 --> 21:13.930 capabilities . For example , Germany 21:13.939 --> 21:16.161 and Poland are collaborating to provide 21:16.161 --> 21:18.380 Ukraine with leopard tanks as well as 21:18.390 --> 21:20.223 the training and maintenance and 21:20.223 --> 21:22.780 sustainment for those tanks . The 21:22.790 --> 21:24.346 Netherlands and Denmark are 21:24.346 --> 21:26.401 collaborating to set up training for 21:26.401 --> 21:28.179 Ukrainian pilots to fly four th 21:28.179 --> 21:30.234 generation aircraft . And we're also 21:30.234 --> 21:32.346 seeing allies starting to make longer 21:32.346 --> 21:34.130 term commitments . Germany has 21:34.140 --> 21:36.369 authorized about 13 billion in support 21:36.380 --> 21:38.660 to Ukraine over the next 9 to 10 years , 21:38.670 --> 21:41.010 Norway has committed over 7 billion . 21:41.260 --> 21:43.910 And Denmark recently announced 3.2 21:43.920 --> 21:45.976 billion . You will see many of these 21:45.976 --> 21:48.198 figures in the handout that my team has 21:48.198 --> 21:50.819 prepared for you today . Finally , it's 21:50.829 --> 21:52.496 important to note the growing 21:52.496 --> 21:54.718 collaboration between the United States 21:54.718 --> 21:56.940 and partners on industrial production , 21:56.940 --> 21:58.662 both to support Ukraine and to 21:58.662 --> 22:01.239 replenish our own stocks . But in 22:01.250 --> 22:03.829 addition to providing the steady flow 22:03.839 --> 22:06.079 of security assistance and boosting 22:06.089 --> 22:08.920 industrial capacity , we recognize the 22:08.930 --> 22:10.652 importance of prioritizing the 22:10.652 --> 22:13.300 accountability of that assistance to 22:13.310 --> 22:15.143 date . We have not seen credible 22:15.143 --> 22:17.366 evidence of the illicit diversion of us 22:17.366 --> 22:19.643 provided advanced conventional weapons . 22:19.660 --> 22:21.660 Although Russia continues to spread 22:21.660 --> 22:24.140 disinformation to the contrary , that 22:24.150 --> 22:26.640 said do d continues to implement 22:26.709 --> 22:29.069 adapted end use monitoring measures in 22:29.079 --> 22:31.739 Ukraine to track sensitive us weapons 22:31.750 --> 22:34.920 systems and to proactively prevent arms 22:34.930 --> 22:37.479 proliferation . And I would be happy to 22:37.489 --> 22:39.545 address additional questions on this 22:39.545 --> 22:42.349 matter . In the discussion . Finally , 22:42.359 --> 22:44.581 our ability to provide Ukraine's forces 22:44.581 --> 22:46.803 with the capabilities they need now and 22:46.810 --> 22:49.939 over the longer term rests on continued 22:49.949 --> 22:52.540 bipartisan support from Congress . I am 22:52.550 --> 22:54.661 committed to working closely with you 22:54.750 --> 22:56.861 to maintain enduring support for this 22:56.861 --> 22:58.917 national security imperative . Thank 22:58.917 --> 23:02.900 you . Thank you , Miss Cooper . 23:03.180 --> 23:05.430 I now recognize myself for five minutes 23:05.439 --> 23:08.290 of questions . Mr Jones , 23:08.489 --> 23:11.520 reportedly the majority of NATO allies 23:11.530 --> 23:13.419 are coalescing around the need to 23:13.419 --> 23:15.229 provide Ukraine a clear path to 23:15.239 --> 23:18.439 membership once conditions allow . Does 23:18.449 --> 23:20.227 the administration support NATO 23:20.227 --> 23:22.890 emerging from billion with a stronger 23:22.900 --> 23:25.067 political commitment to Ukraine's NATO 23:25.067 --> 23:27.233 membership bid than what what then was 23:27.233 --> 23:29.456 expressed in 2008 ? Specifically , as I 23:29.456 --> 23:31.567 mentioned in my opening statement , I 23:31.567 --> 23:33.709 am concerned by reports that the US , 23:33.719 --> 23:35.829 Germany and Hungary are the most 23:35.839 --> 23:38.430 resistant to moving beyond the 2008 23:38.439 --> 23:39.439 waring . 23:43.500 --> 23:45.670 Thank you , Mr Chairman . I think it's 23:45.680 --> 23:47.930 the top goal of the United States and I 23:47.939 --> 23:50.849 think of all allies for the Vilnius 23:50.859 --> 23:53.630 summit that we come out with a strong 23:53.719 --> 23:56.359 unified message of support for Ukraine . 23:57.079 --> 23:59.439 And I think we're on track to achieve 23:59.449 --> 24:02.500 that allies will , of course , as you 24:02.510 --> 24:05.079 mentioned , reaffirm Bucharest summit 24:05.089 --> 24:07.089 language that Ukraine will become a 24:07.089 --> 24:09.880 member of NATO . But we are preparing 24:09.890 --> 24:12.459 to go beyond that in several important 24:12.469 --> 24:16.099 ways . I think first of all is by 24:16.109 --> 24:18.400 backing that up with increased levels 24:18.410 --> 24:20.466 of non lethal support through nato's 24:20.466 --> 24:22.577 comprehensive assistance package that 24:22.577 --> 24:24.890 Ukraine needs now to help it prevail in 24:24.900 --> 24:28.199 its war with Russia . 24:29.030 --> 24:33.020 Secondly , uh we're developing what 24:33.030 --> 24:35.030 is an unprecedented package of long 24:35.030 --> 24:37.530 term support . That signals that the 24:37.540 --> 24:40.280 alliance's commitment to Ukraine is for 24:40.290 --> 24:43.400 the long run . This long term support 24:43.410 --> 24:46.390 is focused specifically on preparing 24:46.400 --> 24:48.511 Ukraine for future NATO membership by 24:48.511 --> 24:50.680 advancing Ukraine's reform agenda and 24:50.689 --> 24:53.420 helping it to meet nato's membership 24:53.430 --> 24:56.650 standards . NATO is also preparing to 24:56.660 --> 24:59.609 upgrade its partnership with Ukraine to 24:59.619 --> 25:01.730 include a new Consultative body . The 25:01.730 --> 25:03.786 NATO Ukraine Council , where Ukraine 25:03.786 --> 25:06.430 will sit on an equal basis with allies 25:06.439 --> 25:08.661 to advance the political dialogue . And 25:08.670 --> 25:10.369 also Ukraine's Euro Atlantic 25:10.380 --> 25:13.839 aspirations , the 25:14.000 --> 25:17.859 Ukraine and all allies agree that 25:17.869 --> 25:20.489 NATO cannot join NATO cannot join . 25:20.500 --> 25:22.278 Sorry , Ukraine cannot join the 25:22.278 --> 25:24.333 alliance during an active conflict , 25:24.609 --> 25:27.869 but NATO can provide Ukraine with the 25:27.880 --> 25:30.102 long term support . It needs to advance 25:30.102 --> 25:32.102 its reform agenda so that it can be 25:32.102 --> 25:34.380 ready to join the alliance . When 25:34.390 --> 25:36.640 conditions permit , does the 25:36.650 --> 25:38.706 administration have a plan to engage 25:38.706 --> 25:40.670 Congress on the is on this issue ? 25:40.680 --> 25:42.569 Particularly given it will likely 25:42.569 --> 25:46.199 require additional funding . Yes , sir . 25:46.209 --> 25:48.265 We're always available to consult on 25:48.265 --> 25:50.520 this issue . Um And I think that's uh 25:50.530 --> 25:52.641 part of what we're looking forward to 25:52.641 --> 25:55.359 hearing . Um hearing today . Uh 25:55.459 --> 25:59.219 Miss Cooper yesterday , this committee 25:59.229 --> 26:01.520 passed mine and uh ranking member 26:01.530 --> 26:03.308 Keating's bipartisan resolution 26:03.630 --> 26:05.686 supporting the immediate transfer of 26:05.686 --> 26:07.686 attack to Ukraine . Unfortunately , 26:07.686 --> 26:09.797 this administration continues to deny 26:09.800 --> 26:13.469 these critical systems to Ukraine . Do 26:13.479 --> 26:16.290 you agree that attacks could , would be 26:16.300 --> 26:18.540 useful to Ukraine's counter offensive ? 26:22.660 --> 26:24.716 Mr Chairman , I think there are many 26:24.716 --> 26:26.827 capabilities that are useful and when 26:26.827 --> 26:29.400 we have looked at , we have also taken 26:29.410 --> 26:31.109 into account other practical 26:31.119 --> 26:34.079 considerations like availability and 26:34.089 --> 26:35.978 also whether there are substitute 26:35.978 --> 26:38.670 systems . And right now , Mr Chairman , 26:38.760 --> 26:41.020 we are seeing the effectiveness of the 26:41.030 --> 26:44.270 storm shadow system provided by the UK 26:44.459 --> 26:46.181 and are finding it to be quite 26:46.189 --> 26:49.780 effective . Uh You you have opposed or 26:49.790 --> 26:51.790 excuse me , this administration had 26:51.790 --> 26:53.957 opposed attack him because they saw it 26:53.957 --> 26:56.489 as they have many weapon systems and , 26:56.500 --> 27:00.390 and uh before as escalatory in , in 27:00.400 --> 27:02.122 nature . But the , as you just 27:02.122 --> 27:04.289 mentioned , the British have , have uh 27:04.289 --> 27:06.729 sent the storm shadow missiles uh to no 27:06.739 --> 27:09.739 reaction by Putin is , is one of your 27:09.750 --> 27:12.140 concerns still the ability to escalate 27:12.150 --> 27:14.500 the conflict . Mr Chairman . My 27:14.510 --> 27:16.959 concerns relate to the practical 27:16.969 --> 27:19.609 aspects of availability and also 27:19.619 --> 27:21.675 whether there are other systems like 27:21.675 --> 27:23.786 storm shadow , like the ground launch 27:23.786 --> 27:25.730 small diameter bomb that will come 27:25.730 --> 27:27.563 online this fall , other systems 27:27.563 --> 27:29.829 including UAVS that can range the same 27:29.839 --> 27:31.969 targets . And I would be more than 27:31.979 --> 27:34.250 happy to discuss a greater details on 27:34.260 --> 27:36.719 these issues in a classified setting . 27:37.329 --> 27:39.440 I would appreciate that . Thank you . 27:39.440 --> 27:41.500 The um Miss Cooper , the Russian 27:41.510 --> 27:43.288 military has been using cluster 27:43.288 --> 27:45.969 munitions with impunity in Ukraine . 27:47.180 --> 27:49.291 Yet the administration has refused to 27:49.291 --> 27:51.291 provide similar weapons known as de 27:51.291 --> 27:53.410 picks to Ukraine . I am aware of the 27:53.420 --> 27:55.364 dangers of unexploded ordinances . 27:55.869 --> 27:57.980 However , the Ukrainians believe that 27:57.980 --> 28:00.202 their battlefield benefits outweigh the 28:00.202 --> 28:02.313 costs . And since these would be used 28:02.313 --> 28:04.536 on Ukraine's own territory , Kiev would 28:04.536 --> 28:06.758 be incentivized to judicially limit the 28:06.758 --> 28:09.579 post war threat to civilians . Do you 28:09.589 --> 28:11.533 think that the would be helpful to 28:11.533 --> 28:13.200 Ukraine's counter offensive , 28:13.200 --> 28:15.200 particularly in offsetting Russia's 28:15.209 --> 28:17.265 quantitative advantage in manpower , 28:17.265 --> 28:20.119 armor and artillery ? Mr Chairman , our 28:20.130 --> 28:22.920 military analysts have confirmed that 28:22.930 --> 28:25.660 the picks would be useful especially 28:25.670 --> 28:28.699 against dug in Russian positions on the 28:28.709 --> 28:31.400 battlefield . The the reason why you 28:31.410 --> 28:34.500 have not seen um uh move forward in 28:34.510 --> 28:37.260 providing this capability relates both 28:37.270 --> 28:38.937 to the existing congressional 28:38.937 --> 28:40.937 restrictions on the provision of de 28:41.069 --> 28:43.810 picks and concerns about allied unity . 28:43.819 --> 28:45.875 But from a battlefield effectiveness 28:45.875 --> 28:48.510 perspective , um we do believe it would 28:48.520 --> 28:51.670 be useful . Thank you . I now recognize 28:51.680 --> 28:53.402 ranking member keating for any 28:53.402 --> 28:55.479 questions that he may have . Well , 28:55.489 --> 28:57.829 thank you , Mr Chairman uh on the 28:57.839 --> 29:00.989 attack issue too . Um You notice his 29:01.000 --> 29:03.459 language that in that , that uh it said 29:03.709 --> 29:07.010 uh subject to our own readiness . Uh Is 29:07.020 --> 29:10.359 there an issue without uh getting into 29:10.369 --> 29:12.536 classified session generally that that 29:12.536 --> 29:14.758 would have to be considered in any kind 29:14.758 --> 29:16.869 of dispersion whether it's Ukraine or 29:16.869 --> 29:19.130 otherwise ? Yes , ranking member 29:19.140 --> 29:21.196 Keating , we would look at readiness 29:21.196 --> 29:23.310 considerations and they would be um a 29:23.319 --> 29:25.560 clear factor in our decision making . 29:25.569 --> 29:27.699 Thank you . Thank you . The uh I 29:27.709 --> 29:29.931 noticed Mr Jones in your testimony . Uh 29:29.931 --> 29:31.987 You highlighted again for the second 29:31.987 --> 29:34.739 time uh that uh heads of state from 29:34.750 --> 29:36.819 Australia , Japan , New Zealand and 29:36.829 --> 29:39.920 South Korea will be joining uh NATO at 29:39.930 --> 29:42.280 the Wildness Summit . And uh and that's 29:42.290 --> 29:45.270 significant uh as we look to China , uh 29:45.280 --> 29:47.599 and you look at the uh threat that 29:47.609 --> 29:49.890 China , you know , currently exerts uh 29:49.900 --> 29:51.956 with the building military and , and 29:51.956 --> 29:54.289 its other types of course of activities . 29:54.289 --> 29:57.239 Um That's quite a statement to see 29:57.250 --> 29:59.930 these countries join together again as 29:59.939 --> 30:02.959 partners in the summit . Uh two things , 30:02.969 --> 30:05.025 how significant is that in sending a 30:05.030 --> 30:08.020 message to uh China ? And also , uh 30:08.260 --> 30:09.982 again , can you underscore the 30:09.982 --> 30:13.270 importance of our victory and Ukraine's 30:13.280 --> 30:15.859 victory against Russia in terms of 30:15.869 --> 30:17.758 posturing towards China and their 30:17.758 --> 30:18.758 threats ? 30:21.979 --> 30:24.329 I think the presence of nato's four 30:24.339 --> 30:26.750 Indo Pacific partners is significant 30:26.760 --> 30:29.599 and it signifies the evolution that 30:29.609 --> 30:31.280 NATO has gone through as it 30:31.469 --> 30:33.739 increasingly recognizes the challenges 30:33.750 --> 30:37.060 that the PR C poses to Euro Atlantic 30:37.069 --> 30:39.829 security and it has become increasingly 30:39.839 --> 30:43.729 important agenda on for NATO . 30:43.800 --> 30:47.520 This has followed years of effort by 30:47.530 --> 30:50.069 the United States and we're seeing 30:50.079 --> 30:53.359 increasing convergence of views between 30:53.369 --> 30:55.313 our European allies and the United 30:55.313 --> 30:57.313 States and the way we recognize the 30:57.313 --> 31:01.040 challenges posed by the PRC and 31:01.050 --> 31:04.050 NATO has responded in a couple ways . 31:04.060 --> 31:06.609 One by really focusing on what NATO can 31:06.619 --> 31:10.510 do to reinforce resilience of our NATO 31:10.520 --> 31:13.339 allies to resist the coercive policies 31:13.349 --> 31:16.219 and pressures from the PC and also by 31:16.229 --> 31:18.396 expanding its partnerships in the Indo 31:18.396 --> 31:20.562 Pacific . And that's what we're seeing 31:20.562 --> 31:22.785 at this , at this summit for the second 31:22.785 --> 31:25.400 time . Uh I think there is also 31:25.489 --> 31:28.949 increasing realization that um what 31:28.959 --> 31:30.792 happens in the Indo Pacific also 31:30.792 --> 31:34.119 impacts um security in the your 31:34.130 --> 31:36.949 Atlantic space and and the reverse as 31:36.959 --> 31:40.280 well . So the outcome of the war in 31:40.290 --> 31:44.199 Ukraine is extremely important to show 31:44.209 --> 31:47.339 that um countries who engage in 31:47.349 --> 31:49.800 aggression who violate the principles 31:49.810 --> 31:52.030 of sovereignty and territorial 31:52.040 --> 31:55.380 integrity and use , use force to try to 31:55.390 --> 31:58.089 redraw borders will not succeed . And 31:58.099 --> 31:59.890 that is a message that will be 31:59.900 --> 32:02.520 particularly important that the pr C 32:02.530 --> 32:04.810 take the right lessons from the outcome 32:04.819 --> 32:08.209 of this uh of this conflict . And m do 32:08.219 --> 32:10.219 you want to comment in terms of our 32:10.219 --> 32:12.829 defense Posture and how important it is 32:12.839 --> 32:15.117 to send a message , not just a message , 32:15.117 --> 32:18.640 but the reality that these countries 32:18.650 --> 32:20.539 like minded countries in terms of 32:20.539 --> 32:23.329 values are coming together on issues as 32:23.339 --> 32:27.030 a deterrent to China . Yes . Uh 32:27.040 --> 32:29.096 ranking member Keating , I would say 32:29.096 --> 32:31.800 that um one sign of the importance of 32:31.810 --> 32:34.089 this and the shared unity is not just 32:34.099 --> 32:36.349 uh the participation at NATO but also 32:36.359 --> 32:39.040 participation uh by countries around 32:39.050 --> 32:40.883 the world in the Ukraine defense 32:40.883 --> 32:42.883 contact group that I had referenced 32:42.883 --> 32:45.106 earlier . And um I will tell you that , 32:45.106 --> 32:47.217 you know , from my consultations with 32:47.217 --> 32:49.219 our Indo Pacific allies , they are 32:49.229 --> 32:51.709 watching this very closely and they 32:51.719 --> 32:53.497 want to ensure that there is an 32:53.497 --> 32:56.300 unequivocal message of support for 32:56.310 --> 32:59.060 Ukraine and unequivocal condemnation of 32:59.069 --> 33:01.660 Russia's actions . Lest we send a 33:01.670 --> 33:04.790 signal to other dictators around the 33:04.800 --> 33:07.180 world . I also think I'm sorry , sir , 33:07.449 --> 33:11.040 I'm approaching my time here but uh so 33:11.050 --> 33:13.106 it's not lost in the overall picture 33:13.106 --> 33:15.161 but still important I think what can 33:15.161 --> 33:17.328 NATO do to incentivize Georgia to halt 33:17.328 --> 33:19.494 some of its democratic backsliding and 33:19.494 --> 33:21.661 continue to make the reforms necessary 33:21.661 --> 33:24.300 for eventual uh NATO membership . Uh I 33:24.310 --> 33:27.339 think this is important to underscore 33:27.599 --> 33:30.770 the need for these kind of reforms as 33:30.780 --> 33:33.979 we go forward too uh with other 33:33.989 --> 33:36.100 countries as we approach the summit . 33:39.170 --> 33:41.449 So I can answer this from uh from not 33:41.459 --> 33:43.348 just the NATO perspective but the 33:43.348 --> 33:45.515 bilateral perspective . I know that we 33:45.515 --> 33:47.737 with our NATO allies are very concerned 33:47.737 --> 33:49.459 about what we see in political 33:49.459 --> 33:51.515 developments in Georgia . But at the 33:51.515 --> 33:53.626 same time , we have to make sure that 33:53.626 --> 33:55.792 we are continuing to send that message 33:55.792 --> 33:58.209 to Russia that they must not press 33:58.219 --> 34:00.739 forward and continue their aggression 34:00.750 --> 34:02.920 in Georgia . So it means that we have 34:02.930 --> 34:04.986 to maintain our military to military 34:04.986 --> 34:07.550 relationships , we have to maintain our 34:07.560 --> 34:09.727 capacity building efforts . But at the 34:09.727 --> 34:11.893 same time , send very strong political 34:11.893 --> 34:14.300 signals to the leadership . Thank you 34:14.310 --> 34:18.229 very much , you back . Thank you , Mr 34:18.239 --> 34:20.839 Keating . I now recognize Mr Lawler 34:20.849 --> 34:23.499 from New York for five minutes . Thank 34:23.509 --> 34:25.829 you , Mr Chairman . Uh Last week , some 34:25.839 --> 34:28.061 of my colleagues and I sent a letter to 34:28.061 --> 34:29.839 President Biden urging that the 34:29.839 --> 34:32.061 administration prioritize discussion on 34:32.061 --> 34:34.519 Ukraine's ascension to NATO at the 34:34.529 --> 34:37.429 Vilnius summit . Uh At the very least , 34:37.439 --> 34:39.106 we must establish a clear and 34:39.106 --> 34:40.939 achievable pathway to membership 34:40.939 --> 34:42.772 accompanied by concrete security 34:42.772 --> 34:45.209 commitments . Of course , uh is the 34:45.219 --> 34:47.386 administration planning to put forward 34:47.386 --> 34:49.052 this discussion at the summit 34:52.830 --> 34:55.510 so I can speak to . Certainly your 34:55.520 --> 34:58.590 comment about a clear path that is a 34:58.600 --> 35:01.149 major focus of the summit . And we are 35:01.159 --> 35:03.729 working diligently to send that clear 35:03.739 --> 35:06.459 message of support for Ukraine at 35:06.639 --> 35:09.330 Vilnius . Well , yet just this weekend , 35:09.340 --> 35:10.896 the president said that his 35:10.896 --> 35:13.179 administration wouldn't make it easy 35:13.189 --> 35:16.030 and for Ukraine to join NATO . So is it 35:16.040 --> 35:18.262 going to be a clear path or is it going 35:18.262 --> 35:21.290 to be difficult ? Uh I don't think 35:21.300 --> 35:23.356 there's any um contradiction there . 35:23.356 --> 35:26.300 The NATO um membership process is a 35:26.310 --> 35:28.310 rigorous process . It's a standards 35:28.310 --> 35:30.477 based process um And to get through it 35:30.477 --> 35:33.010 successfully . Uh So , if it's , if 35:33.020 --> 35:35.187 it's standard , why do , why even have 35:35.187 --> 35:37.298 the comment that we're not gonna make 35:37.298 --> 35:39.076 it easy ? What is it that we're 35:39.076 --> 35:41.020 concerned about ? Uh because every 35:41.020 --> 35:43.242 applicant including Ukraine has to make 35:43.242 --> 35:45.409 uh reforms to meet the um the criteria 35:45.409 --> 35:47.520 for membership . And so uh what we're 35:47.520 --> 35:49.687 focused on in this um summit is really 35:49.687 --> 35:51.798 providing Ukraine the support that it 35:51.798 --> 35:53.909 needs to make those reforms so it can 35:53.909 --> 35:55.798 be successful in the in the um um 35:55.798 --> 35:58.280 membership process is the goal of the 35:58.290 --> 36:00.457 administration ultimately to have them 36:00.457 --> 36:02.879 part of NATO . So we have said that we 36:02.889 --> 36:05.840 stand by what was said in um in uh in 36:05.850 --> 36:08.199 Bucharest that Ukraine will become a 36:08.209 --> 36:11.229 member of the Alliance . Um with 36:11.239 --> 36:13.989 respect to Moldova . Uh Moldova 36:14.000 --> 36:16.120 obviously is in the process of 36:16.129 --> 36:19.239 reforming its government . President 36:19.250 --> 36:22.169 Sandu has taken on corruption uh in 36:22.179 --> 36:24.840 concert with the United States and the 36:24.850 --> 36:28.399 eu uh putting sanctions in place . Um 36:28.449 --> 36:30.399 They are obviously seeking eu 36:30.409 --> 36:33.850 membership . Um And in that process , 36:34.739 --> 36:37.060 is there any talk with respect to 36:37.070 --> 36:40.620 Moldova being part of NATO and and 36:40.629 --> 36:43.909 obviously rigorous process understood ? 36:43.919 --> 36:46.770 But is there any talk with respect to 36:46.780 --> 36:50.449 Moldova and what NATO can and should do 36:50.459 --> 36:54.060 to help with security ? Um 36:54.070 --> 36:56.189 Perhaps uh congressman , I can first 36:56.199 --> 36:58.421 address it from a bilateral perspective 36:58.421 --> 37:00.532 because right now , the government of 37:00.532 --> 37:02.366 Moldova is really focusing on EU 37:02.366 --> 37:04.532 membership and they aren't emphasizing 37:04.532 --> 37:06.643 NATO membership . So we actually have 37:06.643 --> 37:09.120 ramped up significantly our engagement 37:09.129 --> 37:11.449 with Moldova to support them in this 37:11.459 --> 37:13.449 critical time . And from a defense 37:13.459 --> 37:15.229 department perspective , we've 37:15.300 --> 37:17.260 significantly expanded uh security 37:17.270 --> 37:19.790 assistance and training and other forms 37:19.800 --> 37:22.530 of uh engagement and support . And it 37:22.540 --> 37:24.790 really is intended to strengthen their 37:24.800 --> 37:27.830 ability to defend themselves um and 37:27.840 --> 37:30.790 have a deterrent effect um and build 37:30.800 --> 37:32.929 towards what they see as an immediate 37:32.939 --> 37:35.989 eu goal . Um But if you want to come in 37:36.000 --> 37:38.389 on NATO , I just wanted to add that uh 37:38.399 --> 37:40.500 Moldova follows a policy of 37:40.510 --> 37:42.677 constitutional neutrality and so it is 37:42.677 --> 37:45.110 not a requesting or seeking NATO 37:45.120 --> 37:47.342 membership , it's not a NATO aspirant . 37:47.342 --> 37:50.030 Um but it is a strong partner to NATO 37:50.270 --> 37:52.679 and NATO has uh tailored its support 37:52.689 --> 37:56.370 for Moldova to be fully in respect of 37:56.379 --> 37:59.610 its policy of constitutional neutrality . 37:59.709 --> 38:02.229 And NATO does recognize Moldova as one 38:02.239 --> 38:04.760 of its partners , particularly at risk 38:04.770 --> 38:07.379 and has targeted its supporters stood . 38:07.560 --> 38:09.504 Uh It is common knowledge that the 38:09.504 --> 38:11.671 majority of NATO members still fail to 38:11.671 --> 38:14.320 meet the alliance's 2% of GDP threshold 38:14.330 --> 38:16.479 for defense spending . But this past 38:16.489 --> 38:18.889 February Secretary Austin met with NATO 38:18.899 --> 38:22.159 Secretary General Stoltenberg , uh and 38:22.169 --> 38:24.113 then announced that NATO countries 38:24.113 --> 38:26.399 would agree to a quote unquote new 38:26.409 --> 38:28.929 defense investment pledge at the 38:28.939 --> 38:32.070 Vilnius Summit . Uh Miss Cooper , uh do 38:32.080 --> 38:34.260 you know what this new pledge would 38:34.270 --> 38:38.229 look like ? And what uh it would it 38:38.239 --> 38:40.949 be an increased threshold ? Congressman ? 38:40.959 --> 38:43.219 I'm going to defer to um Das Jones 38:43.229 --> 38:45.396 since my primary responsibility is not 38:45.396 --> 38:48.129 specific to NATO . So allies are 38:48.139 --> 38:51.370 intensely negotiating what the new 38:51.379 --> 38:53.929 updated defense investment pledge will 38:53.939 --> 38:57.550 be . And our position is 38:57.560 --> 39:00.139 that the new defense investment pledge 39:00.149 --> 39:03.320 needs to affirm and enduring commitment 39:03.330 --> 39:07.090 to send to spend 2% of GDP as a floor 39:07.429 --> 39:10.550 for , for all allies . But in addition 39:10.560 --> 39:12.504 to that , there needs to be strong 39:12.504 --> 39:15.800 language um to spend to aim to spend 39:15.810 --> 39:17.588 even beyond that because in our 39:17.588 --> 39:20.080 assessment , 2% spending by , by each 39:20.090 --> 39:22.312 ally would actually not be sufficient . 39:22.312 --> 39:24.312 Is there going to be accountability 39:24.312 --> 39:26.368 measures as part of this ? Uh So the 39:26.370 --> 39:29.330 secretary General does release a report 39:29.340 --> 39:32.530 annually that details defense spending 39:32.540 --> 39:35.909 by , by all allies and all allies 39:35.919 --> 39:39.560 are asked to produce a plan , a 39:39.570 --> 39:41.737 credible plan for how they will get to 39:41.739 --> 39:43.729 the 2% mark . Thank you . 39:47.010 --> 39:50.699 Thank you , Mr Lawler . I now recognize 39:50.709 --> 39:52.719 uh Miss Titus of Nevada for five 39:52.729 --> 39:54.896 minutes . Thank you , Mr Chairman . Uh 39:54.896 --> 39:57.199 I'm glad to hear that Turkey has kind 39:57.209 --> 39:59.790 of softened its opposition to Sweden's 40:00.379 --> 40:03.120 uh joining NATO . But um at the same 40:03.129 --> 40:04.851 time , I'm concerned about the 40:04.851 --> 40:07.010 administration and some lawmakers 40:07.020 --> 40:08.687 softening their stance on the 40:08.687 --> 40:11.899 possibility of selling F-16s to Turkey . 40:11.909 --> 40:14.600 We know Turkey is nothing if not uh 40:14.860 --> 40:16.820 practical or uh 40:17.820 --> 40:21.449 transactional . So , uh I , I 40:21.629 --> 40:23.800 just believe that Turkey has proven 40:23.810 --> 40:27.020 it's not a reliable NATO ally and its 40:27.030 --> 40:29.879 actions are contrary to the spirit of 40:29.889 --> 40:32.989 NATO . So I , I ask both of you , are 40:33.000 --> 40:35.340 you aware of any other of our NATO 40:35.350 --> 40:38.000 allies that we've imposed sanctions on 40:38.010 --> 40:41.250 under Kasa besides Turkey ? And are you 40:41.260 --> 40:44.060 aware of any other NATO allies that 40:44.070 --> 40:47.030 antagonize other NATO allies like 40:47.040 --> 40:49.610 flying into the airspace of Greece and 40:49.620 --> 40:52.350 Cyprus uh besides Turkey . 40:55.389 --> 40:57.959 So I'm not aware of other NATO allies 40:57.969 --> 41:00.136 that we have applied cats of sanctions 41:00.136 --> 41:03.280 to . I do want to say it's no secret 41:03.290 --> 41:06.239 that we have differences with Turkey 41:06.250 --> 41:08.194 but also from a NATO perspective , 41:08.194 --> 41:10.417 Turkey is also a land long standing and 41:10.679 --> 41:12.929 committed NATO ally . It does 41:12.939 --> 41:16.330 contribute strongly to NATO operations 41:16.340 --> 41:19.780 um including through the entire time of 41:19.790 --> 41:22.860 our NATO mission in Afghanistan . I 41:22.870 --> 41:24.926 think the most recent example in the 41:24.926 --> 41:27.939 flare up of violence in Kosovo recently , 41:27.949 --> 41:31.750 Turkey sent 500 ask your 41:31.760 --> 41:34.093 colleague there that same two questions . 41:36.090 --> 41:39.219 I I also am not aware of any instance 41:39.229 --> 41:42.040 of imposing CSA sanctions on another uh 41:42.050 --> 41:45.300 NATO member , any other NATO members 41:45.310 --> 41:47.189 flying in the airspace or taking 41:47.199 --> 41:49.620 aggressive action against other NATO 41:49.629 --> 41:53.239 fellow allies at the current 41:53.250 --> 41:56.050 time ? No examples uh come specifically 41:56.060 --> 41:58.004 to mind . Thank you . I think that 41:58.004 --> 42:00.340 makes Turkey the outlier . So whatever 42:00.419 --> 42:02.586 they may have done in the past , let's 42:02.586 --> 42:04.475 look at what they're doing in the 42:04.475 --> 42:06.586 present . Uh I don't also want to ask 42:06.586 --> 42:08.808 you about the situation with Kosovo and 42:08.808 --> 42:11.050 uh Serbia that seems to be boiling over 42:11.060 --> 42:14.060 again . We've seen divisive mayoral 42:14.070 --> 42:16.149 appointments in Kosovo . Northern 42:16.159 --> 42:18.629 Kosovo ethnic Serbs are attacking the 42:18.639 --> 42:22.010 UN peacekeepers . Kosova police 42:22.020 --> 42:24.580 officers are being detained in Serbia . 42:24.750 --> 42:27.560 Any instability in the Western Balkans , 42:27.570 --> 42:29.681 whether they're NATO members or not , 42:29.681 --> 42:32.395 is really a threat to NATO itself . And 42:32.405 --> 42:34.516 not to mention the security of the UN 42:34.516 --> 42:37.485 peacekeepers or to Kosovo's own NATO 42:37.495 --> 42:40.185 aspirations . I would ask you , Mr 42:40.195 --> 42:42.564 Jones , how is the US working with uh 42:42.574 --> 42:44.725 NATO to help lower the temperature 42:44.735 --> 42:48.550 between Kosovo and Serbia ? Well , 42:48.560 --> 42:50.560 we've called on all parties to take 42:50.560 --> 42:52.338 immediate action to de escalate 42:52.338 --> 42:55.169 tensions . We've condemned the violence 42:55.179 --> 42:57.235 which has been directed both at NATO 42:57.235 --> 42:59.235 troops but also law enforcement and 42:59.235 --> 43:01.939 journalists . We've been deeply engaged 43:01.949 --> 43:04.760 with Kosovo and with Serbia to de 43:04.770 --> 43:07.090 escalate and to urge both to quickly 43:07.100 --> 43:09.919 return to the EU facilitated dialogue . 43:11.189 --> 43:13.300 And I , and , and , and from the NATO 43:13.300 --> 43:15.522 perspective , you know , NATO continues 43:15.522 --> 43:19.120 to um uh be responsible for the safety 43:19.129 --> 43:21.939 and security through the uh of the uh 43:21.949 --> 43:24.060 and freedom of movement to the K four 43:24.060 --> 43:26.171 mission , uh recently reinforced that 43:26.171 --> 43:28.870 mission um to be able to execute that 43:28.879 --> 43:31.229 mission . I know there are high hurdles 43:31.239 --> 43:33.800 for Kosovo to join as a full member of 43:33.810 --> 43:36.032 NATO . But can you tell us where things 43:36.032 --> 43:37.840 stand on its bid to join the 43:37.850 --> 43:40.310 partnership for peace program ? Is the 43:40.320 --> 43:42.580 US supporting that is , are the 43:42.590 --> 43:45.969 tensions uh causing that to be 43:45.979 --> 43:49.820 delayed or affected anyway ? Negatively ? 43:51.580 --> 43:54.639 Well , uh there are hurdles to NATO to 43:54.649 --> 43:56.909 Kosovo moving forward . We've been 43:56.919 --> 44:00.239 clear that both Kosovo and Serbia need 44:00.250 --> 44:02.550 to immediately fulfill commitments to 44:02.560 --> 44:05.389 the normalization agreement and also 44:05.399 --> 44:08.010 its implementation annex . And we've 44:08.020 --> 44:10.669 continued to support Kosovo's 10 year 44:10.679 --> 44:12.919 transition plan to transform the Kosovo 44:12.929 --> 44:15.699 security force into a multi ethnic NATO 44:15.709 --> 44:18.860 interoperable territorial defense force . 44:18.870 --> 44:21.459 Um And that would help uh move Kosovo 44:21.469 --> 44:24.020 forward on this path , Miss Cooper . 44:24.030 --> 44:26.679 You want to add to any of this um 44:26.689 --> 44:28.800 Congresswoman since uh the Balkans is 44:28.800 --> 44:31.360 not part of my portfolio . I thank you . 44:31.750 --> 44:35.689 Thank you . Thank you . This uh 44:35.699 --> 44:39.399 committee will recess until 2 15 when 44:39.409 --> 44:42.659 we reconvene after votes 215 . Thank 44:42.669 --> 44:43.669 you . 44:51.520 --> 44:52.689 The committee 44:55.439 --> 44:59.219 will come to order uh Mr 44:59.270 --> 45:03.159 Wagner for five minutes . Thank you , 45:03.169 --> 45:04.947 Mr Chairman and I thank you for 45:04.947 --> 45:07.169 organizing this hearing . Uh the NATO 45:07.179 --> 45:10.679 summit in Vilnius is fast approaching 45:10.689 --> 45:12.709 and I appreciate the opportunity to 45:12.719 --> 45:15.590 examine uh allied priorities ahead of 45:15.600 --> 45:18.709 this very critically important meeting . 45:18.919 --> 45:22.139 I am privileged to serve uh as a US 45:22.149 --> 45:24.260 delegate to the NATO parliamentary uh 45:24.260 --> 45:26.909 assem assembly , the alliance's 45:26.919 --> 45:30.449 legislative I guess advisory body uh at 45:30.459 --> 45:32.515 our spring meeting in Luxembourg , I 45:32.515 --> 45:34.626 was moved and gratified to hear first 45:34.626 --> 45:36.681 hand from our transatlantic partners 45:36.780 --> 45:39.560 that the alliance commitment to an 45:39.570 --> 45:42.600 independent sovereign and victorious . 45:42.610 --> 45:45.719 Uh U Ukraine remains absolutely iron 45:45.729 --> 45:49.530 clad equally important . Uh Our NATO 45:49.540 --> 45:51.707 partners made it clear to us that they 45:51.707 --> 45:54.850 understand the need to put real skin in 45:54.860 --> 45:56.860 the game . And I know that this has 45:56.860 --> 45:59.449 been uh addressed uh previously , but 45:59.459 --> 46:02.169 we , as we discussed at in Luxembourg 46:02.179 --> 46:05.129 at the NATO parliament , uh you know , 46:05.139 --> 46:08.500 spending 2% of GDP on defense 46:08.969 --> 46:12.879 should be a floor , not a ceiling 46:12.889 --> 46:15.560 for each member of the alliance . And I 46:15.570 --> 46:18.689 hope that the United States makes that 46:18.699 --> 46:21.060 case to our partners . During the 46:21.070 --> 46:24.580 Vilnius summit . The world is a safer , 46:24.590 --> 46:26.510 safer place when NATO is strong , 46:26.520 --> 46:30.129 capable and ready . Uh In addition 46:30.139 --> 46:33.169 to uh the shortcomings that many NATO 46:33.179 --> 46:35.290 members face on their kind of overall 46:35.290 --> 46:38.530 defense spending , several also lag in 46:38.540 --> 46:41.290 their bilateral support for Ukraine . 46:41.919 --> 46:44.086 Uh Deputy Assistant Secretary Cooper , 46:44.350 --> 46:47.270 which countries could and should 46:47.280 --> 46:50.610 provide more assistance to Ukraine . 46:50.620 --> 46:52.731 And how does the Biden administration 46:52.731 --> 46:54.899 engage with them to ensure that they 46:54.909 --> 46:56.790 are pulling their weight ? 46:59.179 --> 47:01.235 Thank you , Congresswoman Wagner . I 47:01.350 --> 47:03.294 would say that first of all , it's 47:03.294 --> 47:06.560 important to note that our NATO allies 47:06.570 --> 47:09.060 are , are pulling their own weight and 47:09.070 --> 47:11.126 their , their fair share in terms of 47:11.126 --> 47:13.290 supporting Ukraine . And we see 47:13.300 --> 47:15.709 tremendous support in terms of near 47:15.719 --> 47:18.479 term uh provision of support on the 47:18.489 --> 47:20.656 immediate battlefield . But also we're 47:20.656 --> 47:22.711 seeing more and more allies actually 47:22.711 --> 47:24.711 investing in long term support with 47:24.711 --> 47:26.709 billions of dollars in multi year 47:26.719 --> 47:28.886 commitment packages , which are really 47:28.886 --> 47:31.415 important , the areas where we see less 47:31.425 --> 47:33.369 support and where we have a lot of 47:33.369 --> 47:36.195 private quiet conversations because of 47:36.205 --> 47:38.185 the country's policies tend to be 47:38.195 --> 47:41.985 outside of Europe in regions where 47:42.044 --> 47:44.905 countries are not willing to be vocally 47:44.915 --> 47:47.425 in support of Ukraine , but sometimes 47:47.435 --> 47:50.655 quietly will agree to provide donations 47:50.665 --> 47:52.985 without publicity . But those are much 47:52.995 --> 47:55.264 more challenging conversations , but 47:55.274 --> 47:57.163 they are conversations that we're 47:57.163 --> 47:59.330 having at the highest levels of the US 47:59.330 --> 48:02.010 government . Thank you . Um uh Deputy 48:02.020 --> 48:04.076 Assistant Secretary Cooper , keeping 48:04.076 --> 48:06.250 with you uh a little earlier , you , 48:06.260 --> 48:08.482 you , you , you mentioned ground launch 48:08.840 --> 48:11.770 small diameter bombs as an 48:11.780 --> 48:15.199 alternative to attack them that the US 48:15.209 --> 48:17.739 has agreed to provide . However , I 48:17.750 --> 48:20.469 don't believe these will be delivered 48:20.479 --> 48:23.739 to Ukraine's armed forces before 48:23.750 --> 48:26.530 October is my understanding with 48:26.540 --> 48:28.959 Ukraine's counter offensive underway . 48:29.629 --> 48:32.560 The critical time is now 48:33.270 --> 48:36.469 not in four months . Why would we wait 48:36.479 --> 48:39.040 until October to provide critical 48:39.050 --> 48:41.159 longer range systems rather than 48:41.169 --> 48:45.050 provide attacks ? Now , thank you 48:45.060 --> 48:47.080 for that . Um In terms of uh the 48:47.090 --> 48:49.146 capabilities that we're providing to 48:49.146 --> 48:51.146 Ukraine for their immediate needs . 48:51.146 --> 48:53.590 We're always looking at every possible 48:53.600 --> 48:56.570 opportunity . Um and we always have to 48:56.580 --> 48:59.810 weigh the question of effectiveness , 48:59.820 --> 49:01.542 you know , will it work on the 49:01.542 --> 49:03.764 battlefield ? And are there alternative 49:03.764 --> 49:05.987 capabilities Um In this case , you're , 49:05.987 --> 49:08.042 you're absolutely right , ma'am that 49:08.042 --> 49:10.153 the ground launch small diameter bomb 49:10.153 --> 49:12.376 will not arrive until later this fall . 49:12.376 --> 49:14.431 But what we are seeing on the ground 49:14.431 --> 49:16.653 today is the employment of various long 49:16.653 --> 49:20.125 range uh UAV systems as well as uh the 49:20.135 --> 49:22.196 storm shadow system that the UK has 49:22.206 --> 49:25.355 provided , which both have um that that 49:25.365 --> 49:27.615 range . Um And in the case of storm 49:27.625 --> 49:29.845 shadow , also significant uh 49:29.885 --> 49:32.216 significant nothing we could do to move 49:32.226 --> 49:35.216 that that time frame up at all . My , 49:35.226 --> 49:37.282 my colleagues in the acquisition and 49:37.282 --> 49:39.226 sustainment organization have been 49:39.226 --> 49:41.582 working to try to move up the , the uh 49:41.592 --> 49:43.703 the ground launch small diameter bomb 49:43.703 --> 49:45.703 uh time frame . We absolutely agree 49:45.703 --> 49:47.870 that we would like to do that . Um But 49:47.870 --> 49:50.832 so far uh that the earliest is this 49:50.842 --> 49:53.261 fall that we , that we have heard . And 49:53.271 --> 49:55.327 in the meantime , we'll keep , we'll 49:55.327 --> 49:57.493 keep looking for other capabilities um 49:57.493 --> 49:59.382 within our own stocks . There are 49:59.382 --> 50:01.382 availability challenges with , with 50:01.382 --> 50:01.211 certain capabilities . I just want to 50:01.221 --> 50:03.054 reiterate in my few , you know , 50:03.054 --> 50:06.409 seconds left here that , you know , the 50:06.419 --> 50:08.820 counter offensive is now now is our 50:08.850 --> 50:11.219 moment and we have to do whatever we 50:11.229 --> 50:14.620 possibly can to provide the Ukrainians 50:14.629 --> 50:18.040 with the necessary armament , 50:18.090 --> 50:21.679 weaponry uh to , to try and 50:21.899 --> 50:24.080 finish this . So , um I thank you for 50:24.090 --> 50:26.312 your work and I thank you for the , the 50:26.312 --> 50:28.368 chair's indulgence and I shall yield 50:28.368 --> 50:30.090 back and submit the rest of my 50:30.090 --> 50:32.201 questions , Mr Chairman for the um in 50:32.201 --> 50:34.368 writing . Thank you . Thank you , Miss 50:34.368 --> 50:37.000 Wagner . The and now recognize MS Dean 50:37.260 --> 50:39.149 for five minutes . Thank you , Mr 50:39.149 --> 50:41.790 Chairman and ranking member uh Keating . 50:42.070 --> 50:43.792 Uh And I thank you both of the 50:43.792 --> 50:45.514 assistant secretaries for your 50:45.514 --> 50:47.570 testimony today and more importantly 50:47.570 --> 50:49.681 for your work and your service to our 50:49.681 --> 50:51.514 country , especially around this 50:51.514 --> 50:53.570 incredibly important global issue of 50:53.570 --> 50:56.409 Ukraine . Um I wanted to let you know , 50:56.419 --> 50:58.989 I , I serve uh suburban Philadelphia , 50:59.270 --> 51:01.270 Pennsylvania's fourth congressional 51:01.270 --> 51:03.214 district , which is Montgomery and 51:03.214 --> 51:05.270 Berks County is home to a tremendous 51:05.270 --> 51:07.437 number of Ukrainian Americans . Just a 51:07.437 --> 51:09.381 wonderful uh community that I have 51:09.381 --> 51:11.919 known and loved uh since before uh this 51:11.929 --> 51:15.290 horrific uh invasion and set of war 51:15.300 --> 51:18.280 crimes . Uh I , I and I share the 51:18.290 --> 51:20.512 sentiment of uh some folks on the other 51:20.512 --> 51:22.959 side of the aisle . I'm very proud of 51:22.969 --> 51:25.080 this administration and the president 51:25.100 --> 51:27.379 for what he has done , how he has led 51:27.389 --> 51:29.540 and how we , the United States of 51:29.550 --> 51:32.860 America has brought 53 countries if not 51:32.870 --> 51:35.689 more together , seeing clearly the 51:35.699 --> 51:39.159 grotesque invasion by 51:39.169 --> 51:42.620 Russia . So , but my question and I'm 51:42.629 --> 51:44.685 posing it to both of you , either of 51:44.685 --> 51:47.060 you , Mr Jones , MS Cooper , what 51:47.070 --> 51:49.659 additional steps is NATO considering in 51:49.669 --> 51:52.810 order to end Russia's war in Ukraine as 51:52.820 --> 51:56.739 soon as possible as well as to deter 51:56.750 --> 52:00.120 any future aggression ? Obviously , if 52:00.129 --> 52:02.260 we end it sooner than later , I think 52:02.270 --> 52:04.326 that will be a powerful deterrence . 52:04.520 --> 52:06.790 What else is NATO doing ? What else is 52:06.800 --> 52:09.129 the administration summoning up to end 52:09.139 --> 52:10.110 this sooner . 52:15.219 --> 52:17.760 I'll talk briefly about what NATO is 52:17.770 --> 52:20.969 doing . Um NATO is 52:20.979 --> 52:24.090 also committed to supporting Ukraine in 52:24.100 --> 52:26.330 this conflict , but NATO'S role has 52:26.340 --> 52:29.290 been primarily um to provide um non 52:29.300 --> 52:31.889 lethal support to complement the lethal 52:31.899 --> 52:33.621 assistance that is being given 52:33.621 --> 52:35.843 bilaterally through the Ukraine . Um uh 52:36.149 --> 52:38.260 Defense Coordination Group that Laura 52:38.260 --> 52:40.550 described the alliance has been going 52:40.560 --> 52:42.939 through a historic transformation of 52:42.949 --> 52:45.229 its own deterrence and defense in order 52:45.239 --> 52:48.010 to uh to um ensure that there is no 52:48.020 --> 52:50.550 aggression against NATO territory . 52:50.709 --> 52:53.969 NATO has expanded its forward deployed 52:53.979 --> 52:56.560 forces , doubling the number of battle 52:56.570 --> 52:58.903 groups that it has on its eastern front , 52:58.903 --> 53:01.126 almost doubling the number of troops it 53:01.126 --> 53:03.348 has forward deployed . And NATO is also 53:03.348 --> 53:05.550 in the process of completing and is on 53:05.560 --> 53:07.893 track to complete at the Vilnius Summit . 53:07.893 --> 53:11.379 A complete rework of its defense plans 53:11.389 --> 53:14.399 to take in a comprehensive plan for the 53:14.409 --> 53:17.330 defense of Europe , um which will both 53:17.340 --> 53:19.507 strengthen its , its , its deterrent . 53:19.540 --> 53:21.810 And I think send a clear message about 53:21.820 --> 53:24.290 our ironclad commitment to defend every 53:24.300 --> 53:27.310 inch of NATO territory . And if I may 53:27.320 --> 53:30.020 add so from a perspective of your point , 53:30.030 --> 53:32.363 you know , to support the Ukrainians in , 53:32.363 --> 53:34.659 in winning this war , I I would say 53:34.669 --> 53:37.139 that right now , we are very focused on 53:37.149 --> 53:39.316 ensuring that the Ukrainians have what 53:39.316 --> 53:41.538 they need in the counter offensive . Uh 53:41.538 --> 53:43.593 We have helped support them to build 53:43.593 --> 53:46.540 nine new brigades . This is an amazing 53:46.550 --> 53:49.110 achievement and a tribute to the work 53:49.120 --> 53:51.635 of us European command and our allies 53:51.645 --> 53:53.865 and partners . So these nine brigades 53:53.875 --> 53:55.986 have been outfitted with the best kit 53:55.986 --> 53:58.416 possible with tanks , with infantry 53:58.426 --> 54:00.635 fighting vehicles , artillery and with 54:00.645 --> 54:03.156 plenty of ammunition and , and we are 54:03.166 --> 54:05.333 watching to see what else they need as 54:05.333 --> 54:07.499 they , as things break , we're getting 54:07.499 --> 54:09.277 them spare parts or replacement 54:09.277 --> 54:11.055 capabilities . So that's a very 54:11.055 --> 54:13.110 tangible , very practical thing that 54:13.110 --> 54:14.944 we're doing . But I want to also 54:14.944 --> 54:17.055 emphasize that this is not just about 54:17.055 --> 54:19.222 today . It's also about showing Russia 54:19.222 --> 54:21.055 that they cannot wait us out and 54:21.055 --> 54:23.055 showing Russia that we are there to 54:23.055 --> 54:25.481 support Ukraine for the long haul . And 54:25.491 --> 54:27.713 that's something that you see reflected 54:27.713 --> 54:29.880 in the NATO discussions , but you also 54:29.880 --> 54:31.769 see it reflected in our bilateral 54:31.769 --> 54:33.824 discussions , both in private and in 54:33.824 --> 54:35.713 public . And I think that will be 54:35.713 --> 54:37.769 increasingly important . Thank you . 54:37.769 --> 54:39.935 Thank you . And with the little time I 54:39.935 --> 54:39.652 have left , I thank you both for those , 54:39.812 --> 54:43.270 those answers and the nine Brigades is 54:43.280 --> 54:46.080 impressive and important and I know we 54:46.090 --> 54:48.257 must be continuing to do more and more 54:48.257 --> 54:50.500 of that . I'm thinking also what 54:50.510 --> 54:52.550 additional security assurances for 54:52.560 --> 54:54.671 Ukraine will the Biden administration 54:54.671 --> 54:57.790 support at the upcoming summit ? I'm 54:57.800 --> 55:00.080 thinking along the lines of the kind of 55:00.090 --> 55:02.320 Israel style support the Security 55:02.330 --> 55:03.997 agreement , the memorandum of 55:03.997 --> 55:06.108 understanding that we have multi year 55:06.108 --> 55:08.108 commitments to Ukraine . I know you 55:08.108 --> 55:10.441 spoke to a little bit in your testimony , 55:10.441 --> 55:12.774 but if you wouldn't mind detailing that , 55:12.774 --> 55:15.020 thank you and I'll , I'll just touch on 55:15.030 --> 55:17.340 again the bilateral dimension of this . 55:17.350 --> 55:18.906 And of course , there's the 55:18.906 --> 55:21.017 multilateral NATO dimension of this . 55:21.017 --> 55:23.072 Um So , you know , we are engaged in 55:23.072 --> 55:25.939 discussions on how we can support 55:25.949 --> 55:28.060 Ukraine and give that sense of 55:28.070 --> 55:30.290 confidence that they will have what 55:30.300 --> 55:32.629 they need , not just today , but in the 55:32.639 --> 55:35.179 long term , so that as there is an end 55:35.189 --> 55:38.070 to this war , we will also be deterring 55:38.080 --> 55:40.340 future Russian aggression . Um And so 55:40.350 --> 55:42.572 these are conversations that are , that 55:42.572 --> 55:44.794 are occurring um in , in diplomatic and 55:44.794 --> 55:46.906 in , in military to military channels 55:46.906 --> 55:49.183 and will continue to unfold . Terrific . 55:49.183 --> 55:51.183 I see my time has expired . I yield 55:51.183 --> 55:54.169 back . Thank you , MS Dean . I now 55:54.179 --> 55:57.820 recognize Mr Self from Texas for five 55:57.830 --> 56:00.510 minutes . Uh Thank you , Mr Chairman . 56:01.300 --> 56:03.679 Um I think my colleagues are gonna 56:03.689 --> 56:06.270 cover Ukraine and , and the major 56:06.280 --> 56:08.909 issues uh quite well . Uh in the lead 56:08.919 --> 56:11.370 up to Vilnius , I want to go to former 56:11.379 --> 56:13.310 Yugoslavia . You have a potential 56:13.320 --> 56:16.669 flashpoint , uh assistant uh the Deputy 56:16.679 --> 56:19.189 Assistant Secretary Jones in the Serbia 56:19.199 --> 56:22.350 Kosovo uh area . Um 56:23.550 --> 56:25.717 And I , I think people need to realize 56:25.717 --> 56:28.270 that from my time in NATO and the 56:28.280 --> 56:30.502 European command in the nineties during 56:30.502 --> 56:33.050 the multiple civil wars , there are 56:33.060 --> 56:35.171 some issues that have not been solved 56:35.260 --> 56:38.750 between Serbia and Kosovo . As you know , 56:38.760 --> 56:41.159 the Serbs basically boycotted the 56:41.169 --> 56:44.510 recent election . The Kosovars 56:44.520 --> 56:47.879 took , took their rightfully elected 56:47.889 --> 56:50.590 positions and now we have a potential 56:50.600 --> 56:52.767 flashpoint between Serbia and Kosovo , 56:52.767 --> 56:55.879 can you give me your opinion before I 56:55.889 --> 56:56.949 ask my questions ? 56:59.760 --> 57:01.969 So I agree with your assessment on the 57:01.979 --> 57:04.449 potential flash point . And certainly 57:04.459 --> 57:07.439 NATO has a long history in , in the 57:07.449 --> 57:10.590 Balkans regarding Serbia and Kosovo , 57:10.600 --> 57:13.250 we're engaged in intense diplomacy 57:13.260 --> 57:15.610 currently to urge both sides to 57:15.620 --> 57:18.330 deescalate and return to the eu 57:18.340 --> 57:20.699 facilitated dialogue . And we are 57:20.709 --> 57:23.159 supporting as a way ahead , the Eu's 57:23.169 --> 57:25.280 three point plan which is calling for 57:25.280 --> 57:27.639 de escalation by both parties , new 57:27.649 --> 57:29.830 elections this time with Kosovo Serb 57:29.840 --> 57:32.639 participation and also the 57:32.649 --> 57:35.040 normalization agreement implementation . 57:35.840 --> 57:38.919 Uh And you have you mentioned uh Bosnia 57:38.929 --> 57:41.250 Herzegovina in your written testimony , 57:41.260 --> 57:43.790 you did not mention this at all . And 57:43.800 --> 57:45.911 let's go to this election because the 57:45.911 --> 57:48.379 Serbs boycotted it . And I thought you 57:48.389 --> 57:50.667 would mention you wanted new elections . 57:50.667 --> 57:53.469 Why do you want new elections ? Because 57:53.479 --> 57:55.620 the boy , when someone boycotts an 57:55.629 --> 57:57.629 election , when a side boycotts the 57:57.629 --> 57:59.959 election , the election is held duly 57:59.969 --> 58:02.129 held and the people who win the 58:02.139 --> 58:05.030 election take office , why would you 58:05.040 --> 58:06.399 ask for new elections ? 58:08.379 --> 58:12.350 So uh the plan including new elections 58:12.360 --> 58:15.139 uh was referring to um elections in , 58:15.149 --> 58:18.070 in Kosovo um and uh which were 58:18.080 --> 58:21.790 boycotted by the um uh correct and the 58:21.800 --> 58:25.439 Kosovo Serbs . Um So we have recognized 58:25.449 --> 58:27.616 that the uh mayors that were elected , 58:27.616 --> 58:29.671 were elected um through uh through a 58:29.671 --> 58:32.909 proper election . Um However , uh 58:32.919 --> 58:36.010 the um they have not been able to um 58:36.020 --> 58:39.350 fully execute um their duties . Um And , 58:39.360 --> 58:41.600 and in fact , their uh attempt to move 58:41.610 --> 58:43.919 into the uh their municipal office 58:43.929 --> 58:46.040 buildings is what has led to the , to 58:46.040 --> 58:47.985 the violence . And so , but uh but 58:47.985 --> 58:50.100 that's my question , duly elected 58:50.110 --> 58:53.739 mayors are trying to do their duty to 58:53.750 --> 58:56.149 move into the office buildings and we 58:56.159 --> 58:58.919 are supporting re a redo as opposed to 58:58.929 --> 59:01.096 supporting these duly elected mayors . 59:01.096 --> 59:04.729 Why is that ? So these uh mayors due to 59:04.739 --> 59:07.530 the um to the boycott , they were 59:07.540 --> 59:09.207 elected with an extremely low 59:09.207 --> 59:11.290 percentage that happens every day in 59:11.300 --> 59:13.522 America . We have local elections where 59:13.522 --> 59:17.479 we have 10% uh turnout and we 59:17.489 --> 59:19.545 don't fight it because we have a low 59:19.545 --> 59:21.820 turnout , but it's led to large 59:21.830 --> 59:24.879 portions of the um electorate feeling 59:25.110 --> 59:27.166 disenfranchised if they are at their 59:27.166 --> 59:29.439 own choice , um they are willing to 59:29.449 --> 59:31.919 come back um and vote as we are urging 59:31.929 --> 59:34.229 them to , I think that would result in 59:34.239 --> 59:36.620 a , in a more um stable process and a 59:36.629 --> 59:39.149 more representative government um that 59:39.159 --> 59:40.992 would help um end the current uh 59:41.020 --> 59:43.242 conflict that we're the real , the real 59:43.242 --> 59:45.353 problem I see is the state department 59:45.353 --> 59:47.520 is trying to pull Serbia away from the 59:47.520 --> 59:50.300 Russian Orbit . Uh You're intervening 59:50.310 --> 59:54.199 in uh elections that were properly held . 59:54.370 --> 59:56.949 You're interfere in interfering with 59:56.959 --> 01:00:00.149 people who were properly elected to , 01:00:00.810 --> 01:00:03.860 to try to insert yourself into a 01:00:03.870 --> 01:00:07.449 millennia old issue here and you are 01:00:07.459 --> 01:00:10.620 upsetting a duly executed election . 01:00:10.929 --> 01:00:13.096 You're not going to pull Serbia out of 01:00:13.096 --> 01:00:15.350 the Russian orbit . You might as Well , 01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:17.800 let Kosovo , we have recognized Kosovo . 01:00:17.810 --> 01:00:20.032 I know a lot of people have not , a lot 01:00:20.032 --> 01:00:22.032 of countries have not , but we have 01:00:22.032 --> 01:00:24.199 recognized Kosovo . Uh You need to , I 01:00:24.199 --> 01:00:25.977 I encourage you to rethink your 01:00:25.977 --> 01:00:29.899 position uh on this Serbian Kosovar uh 01:00:29.909 --> 01:00:33.209 conflict here because uh you need to be 01:00:33.219 --> 01:00:36.429 standing for the rule of law , which is 01:00:36.439 --> 01:00:38.439 duly elected officials trying to do 01:00:38.439 --> 01:00:40.370 their duty without I yield back . 01:00:43.709 --> 01:00:46.699 Thank you . The chair now recognized Mr 01:00:46.709 --> 01:00:49.120 Costa from California for five minutes . 01:00:49.969 --> 01:00:52.080 Thank you very much , Mr Chairman and 01:00:52.080 --> 01:00:54.302 thank you , ranking member Keating . Um 01:00:54.302 --> 01:00:56.469 I've got a number of questions . First 01:00:56.469 --> 01:00:58.636 of all , let me begin with the weapons 01:00:58.636 --> 01:01:00.858 to Ukraine . Uh Clearly , we've done an 01:01:00.858 --> 01:01:02.858 incredible job but obviously , more 01:01:02.858 --> 01:01:05.080 work needs to be done for , I think for 01:01:05.080 --> 01:01:08.919 ourselves uh and NATO uh to ensure that 01:01:08.929 --> 01:01:11.096 this counter offensive is successful . 01:01:11.290 --> 01:01:14.679 Um The Ukraine has repeatedly requested 01:01:14.689 --> 01:01:16.522 cluster munitions including dual 01:01:16.522 --> 01:01:18.620 purpose improvised conventional 01:01:18.629 --> 01:01:20.760 munitions . Um And I'm not gonna go 01:01:20.770 --> 01:01:22.992 through the acronym but a host of other 01:01:22.992 --> 01:01:25.159 factors . Where are we on that ? And I 01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:27.439 know the we've struggled with the , the 01:01:27.449 --> 01:01:29.889 F-16s and I know that's in progress , 01:01:30.040 --> 01:01:32.151 but right now they need these , these 01:01:32.151 --> 01:01:34.870 dual purposes uh um improved 01:01:34.879 --> 01:01:36.990 conventional munitions . Where are we 01:01:37.219 --> 01:01:40.340 congressman ? On ? Um I refer to it as 01:01:40.399 --> 01:01:44.360 uh for short uh on , on this issue . 01:01:44.550 --> 01:01:46.550 Um The military advice that we have 01:01:46.550 --> 01:01:48.494 received is that they would make a 01:01:48.494 --> 01:01:50.717 difference on the battlefield . Um That 01:01:50.717 --> 01:01:52.883 they would be effective against dug in 01:01:52.883 --> 01:01:54.939 Russian positions . Um There are two 01:01:54.939 --> 01:01:56.828 factors that weigh heavily in the 01:01:56.828 --> 01:01:59.070 decision making . Uh The one is that , 01:01:59.080 --> 01:02:00.913 you know , Congress has actually 01:02:00.913 --> 01:02:03.136 legislated a restriction on transfer of 01:02:03.136 --> 01:02:05.247 these munitions with a dud rate above 01:02:05.247 --> 01:02:08.254 1% . So the congressional , if it's our 01:02:08.264 --> 01:02:10.542 responsibility , we can deal with that . 01:02:10.542 --> 01:02:12.653 I'm not looking for excuses . We know 01:02:12.653 --> 01:02:14.653 they would be effective . So you're 01:02:14.653 --> 01:02:16.653 saying that we have to act ? Well , 01:02:16.653 --> 01:02:18.431 right now , there is , there is 01:02:18.431 --> 01:02:20.597 legislation that restricts the trans I 01:02:20.597 --> 01:02:22.708 heard you . And then the second piece 01:02:22.708 --> 01:02:25.139 is the question of allies reaction . Um 01:02:25.149 --> 01:02:27.149 And then what you're saying is , is 01:02:27.159 --> 01:02:29.270 we're , we're , we're in a standstill 01:02:29.270 --> 01:02:31.050 until we make changes on the 01:02:31.060 --> 01:02:33.171 legislation until we get support with 01:02:33.171 --> 01:02:35.227 our allies . Is that the answer ? Um 01:02:35.227 --> 01:02:37.282 I've got other questions I wanna ask 01:02:37.282 --> 01:02:39.338 that . I think it would be important 01:02:39.338 --> 01:02:41.739 for us to understand um where members 01:02:41.834 --> 01:02:44.284 congress are on this issue . Well , ok , 01:02:44.294 --> 01:02:46.395 let's move on . We'll take that and 01:02:46.405 --> 01:02:48.975 follow up German's national security 01:02:48.985 --> 01:02:51.014 strategy . Last week , Germany 01:02:51.024 --> 01:02:53.135 published its first national security 01:02:53.135 --> 01:02:56.205 strategy document takes kind of a broad 01:02:56.215 --> 01:02:58.985 view at major threats facing Germany . 01:02:59.264 --> 01:03:03.135 The strate calls broad goals to 01:03:03.145 --> 01:03:05.201 increase defense spending and deploy 01:03:05.201 --> 01:03:08.030 more capable , robust armed forces . Um 01:03:08.040 --> 01:03:10.318 What's your impression of the strategy ? 01:03:10.318 --> 01:03:12.540 Have you looked at it ? Uh the goals uh 01:03:12.540 --> 01:03:14.929 is this aspirational or is it realistic ? 01:03:19.050 --> 01:03:21.080 So , I think um in general , the 01:03:21.090 --> 01:03:23.449 strategy , um we're reviewing the 01:03:23.459 --> 01:03:26.580 strategy uh and , um , but we've been 01:03:26.860 --> 01:03:28.916 quite like minded with Germany and a 01:03:28.916 --> 01:03:31.229 lot of , um , um , the issue , but the 01:03:31.239 --> 01:03:33.406 bottom line is this aspirational or is 01:03:33.406 --> 01:03:36.449 this , uh can they achieve this ? Is it 01:03:36.459 --> 01:03:38.570 realistic ? Are you talking about the 01:03:38.570 --> 01:03:40.792 defense spending ? Yeah , that's been a 01:03:40.792 --> 01:03:42.959 problem as well with Germany . So , so 01:03:42.959 --> 01:03:45.070 far , um , you know , they laid out a 01:03:45.070 --> 01:03:47.181 very impressive uh plan for increased 01:03:47.181 --> 01:03:49.403 defense spending . Um , but we have yet 01:03:49.403 --> 01:03:51.626 to see it material . So the proof is in 01:03:51.626 --> 01:03:51.110 the pudding . Ok , let me move to 01:03:51.120 --> 01:03:54.750 Armenia uh clearly uh you know , uh 01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:57.169 Azerbaijan has no intention of 01:03:57.179 --> 01:03:59.512 following through with the Minsk Accord . 01:03:59.512 --> 01:04:02.290 And Russia is not going to uh they , 01:04:02.300 --> 01:04:04.411 they can't abide by any international 01:04:04.411 --> 01:04:06.633 rules that they previously committed to 01:04:06.633 --> 01:04:08.522 the Latin quarter continues to be 01:04:08.522 --> 01:04:11.540 closed to Nagorno K . Um And the 01:04:11.550 --> 01:04:14.879 blockade exists simply put , uh you 01:04:14.889 --> 01:04:16.889 know , Armenians are suffering . Uh 01:04:16.889 --> 01:04:19.649 What's our effort to try to deal with 01:04:19.659 --> 01:04:23.389 this ? Um I , I 01:04:23.399 --> 01:04:26.250 can share my perspective as a defense 01:04:26.260 --> 01:04:28.316 department official who handles this 01:04:28.316 --> 01:04:30.459 part of the , the world . Um First of 01:04:30.469 --> 01:04:32.469 all , I have to credit uh Secretary 01:04:32.469 --> 01:04:34.860 Blinken and uh and National Security 01:04:34.870 --> 01:04:36.926 Council leadership for the work that 01:04:36.926 --> 01:04:38.981 they are doing to try to actually uh 01:04:38.981 --> 01:04:41.284 achieve a successful peace process . I 01:04:41.294 --> 01:04:43.238 know that's fine . But what are we 01:04:43.238 --> 01:04:45.461 doing to deal with the blockade and the 01:04:45.461 --> 01:04:47.516 lad ? And so that , you know , those 01:04:47.516 --> 01:04:49.461 peace negotiations are the path to 01:04:49.461 --> 01:04:52.415 stability and peace So where are we on 01:04:52.425 --> 01:04:54.314 this ? I mean , Azerbaijan has no 01:04:54.314 --> 01:04:56.425 intention of following through , they 01:04:56.425 --> 01:04:56.324 haven't followed through in their 01:04:56.334 --> 01:04:58.556 previous agreements and we sure as hell 01:04:58.556 --> 01:05:02.409 can expect Russia . So in terms of 01:05:02.419 --> 01:05:04.308 the , the peace negotiations , we 01:05:04.308 --> 01:05:06.641 actually are cautiously optimistic , um , 01:05:06.641 --> 01:05:08.697 that we're making some , I'd like to 01:05:08.697 --> 01:05:10.808 talk offline on what your optimism is 01:05:10.808 --> 01:05:12.975 and why . Absolutely . Yeah , I've got 01:05:12.975 --> 01:05:15.086 90 49 seconds . Now , please . I want 01:05:15.086 --> 01:05:16.919 to talk about burden sharing and 01:05:16.919 --> 01:05:20.149 defense spending . Um The summit that's 01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:22.959 coming up includes making 2% of the GDP 01:05:22.969 --> 01:05:25.191 target , a spending floor rather than a 01:05:25.191 --> 01:05:27.413 ceiling . However , we know some of the 01:05:27.413 --> 01:05:29.469 European countries have struggled to 01:05:29.469 --> 01:05:31.691 reach the 2% historically and this goes 01:05:31.691 --> 01:05:33.747 back , three administrations back to 01:05:33.747 --> 01:05:35.858 the Bush administration . The pace of 01:05:35.858 --> 01:05:37.969 their military procurement has led to 01:05:37.969 --> 01:05:40.191 delays in spending appropriated funds . 01:05:40.191 --> 01:05:42.191 And finally NATO countries close to 01:05:42.191 --> 01:05:44.413 reaching 2% increased funding , I think 01:05:44.413 --> 01:05:46.636 is coming as a one off thing . In other 01:05:46.636 --> 01:05:48.691 words , one off supplemental funding 01:05:48.691 --> 01:05:50.913 packages instead of an increased annual 01:05:50.913 --> 01:05:52.913 funding . Where do you think we can 01:05:52.913 --> 01:05:55.136 make some progress in the summit coming 01:05:55.136 --> 01:05:57.949 up ? So we are seeing progress , slow 01:05:57.959 --> 01:05:59.792 progress , too slow progress and 01:05:59.792 --> 01:06:01.903 increased allied defense spending . I 01:06:01.903 --> 01:06:03.903 think for the summit specifically , 01:06:03.929 --> 01:06:06.570 it's with a stronger defense investment 01:06:06.580 --> 01:06:09.469 pledge and we agree with that , we 01:06:09.479 --> 01:06:12.850 should set 2% as the floor for 01:06:12.860 --> 01:06:14.979 allied defense spending . And in 01:06:14.989 --> 01:06:16.989 addition to that , we're working to 01:06:16.989 --> 01:06:19.100 ensure there's also language in there 01:06:19.100 --> 01:06:20.989 that aims to go higher than 2% uh 01:06:20.989 --> 01:06:23.429 because we'll need more than 2% in our 01:06:23.439 --> 01:06:25.949 estimation for allies to be able to 01:06:25.959 --> 01:06:28.689 have the money to provide . Absolute we 01:06:28.709 --> 01:06:31.189 need Mr Chairman , my time has expired 01:06:31.199 --> 01:06:33.366 but I do want to follow up uh Chairman 01:06:33.366 --> 01:06:35.699 Moran and I were in wilderness . I mean , 01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:37.889 in Stockholm this weekend meeting with 01:06:37.899 --> 01:06:39.989 Swedish officials about their uh 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:42.669 ability to become a part of NATO . And 01:06:42.679 --> 01:06:44.846 I want to find out what we're prepared 01:06:44.846 --> 01:06:47.012 to do in the upcoming summit to assist 01:06:47.012 --> 01:06:50.110 Sweden and its ability to become a part 01:06:50.120 --> 01:06:52.231 of NATO . It's critical . Thank you . 01:06:54.649 --> 01:06:57.020 Thank you , Mr Costa . I now recognize 01:06:57.030 --> 01:06:59.899 Mr Moran of Texas for five minutes . 01:07:00.979 --> 01:07:03.550 That was a perfect segue to the first 01:07:03.560 --> 01:07:05.560 question I have . So let's let's go 01:07:05.560 --> 01:07:07.782 with Mr Costa's question because we did 01:07:07.782 --> 01:07:09.949 have a good time uh discussing the the 01:07:09.949 --> 01:07:12.479 NATO accession for uh Sweden this 01:07:12.489 --> 01:07:14.711 weekend , both bilaterally with Swedish 01:07:14.711 --> 01:07:16.378 government officials and then 01:07:16.378 --> 01:07:18.267 multilaterally with EU parliament 01:07:18.267 --> 01:07:20.729 members . And there's strong support 01:07:20.739 --> 01:07:22.961 all the way around from everybody uh to 01:07:22.961 --> 01:07:25.072 make sure that Sweden gets into uh to 01:07:25.072 --> 01:07:27.017 NATO and to do it in a very timely 01:07:27.017 --> 01:07:29.183 fashion . So what , what pressures are 01:07:29.183 --> 01:07:31.300 we applying from the US government to 01:07:31.310 --> 01:07:34.139 ensure that the blockade or the 01:07:34.149 --> 01:07:36.629 objection by Turkey goes away and that 01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:39.010 Hungary follows suit and we get Sweden 01:07:39.020 --> 01:07:42.090 into NATO as quickly as possible . This 01:07:42.100 --> 01:07:45.149 is the top priority of the United 01:07:45.159 --> 01:07:48.010 States uh that Sweden become a NATO 01:07:48.020 --> 01:07:51.239 ally by Vilnius . And we are 01:07:51.250 --> 01:07:54.320 actively and persistently raising this 01:07:54.510 --> 01:07:56.510 with Turkey and with Hungary at all 01:07:56.510 --> 01:07:59.429 levels . Most recently , uh yesterday , 01:07:59.439 --> 01:08:01.550 Secretary Blinken in his meeting with 01:08:01.550 --> 01:08:03.850 Turkish Foreign Minister Fidan focused 01:08:03.860 --> 01:08:07.370 intensely on this . Um So our belief is 01:08:07.379 --> 01:08:11.290 that um allies have taken or Sweden has 01:08:11.300 --> 01:08:13.590 taken Turkey's counter terrorism 01:08:13.600 --> 01:08:15.550 concerns into account and has 01:08:15.560 --> 01:08:17.970 implemented largely the memorandum of 01:08:17.979 --> 01:08:20.459 agreement that they , that they reached 01:08:20.470 --> 01:08:23.509 with Turkey and Finland and Sweden is 01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:25.298 ready to become a member of the 01:08:25.298 --> 01:08:27.409 alliance . Now , let me , let me just 01:08:27.409 --> 01:08:29.520 take issue just briefly with the word 01:08:29.520 --> 01:08:31.576 you said , largely , you said they , 01:08:31.576 --> 01:08:33.687 that Sweden largely complied with the 01:08:33.687 --> 01:08:35.631 MU . But , um , I haven't found an 01:08:35.631 --> 01:08:37.687 instance where they did not comply . 01:08:37.687 --> 01:08:39.853 And in fact , it looks like to me that 01:08:39.853 --> 01:08:42.076 Sweden has complied beyond what the mou 01:08:42.076 --> 01:08:44.609 required has gone above and beyond and 01:08:44.620 --> 01:08:46.629 has done everything that Turkey has 01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:49.270 required in order to remove those 01:08:49.279 --> 01:08:51.057 objections . Is there something 01:08:51.057 --> 01:08:53.057 specifically that the US government 01:08:53.057 --> 01:08:55.390 would say that Sweden still needs to do ? 01:08:55.390 --> 01:08:57.501 No , I would agree . They have , they 01:08:57.501 --> 01:08:59.612 have implemented the MO A and they've 01:08:59.612 --> 01:09:01.612 done a great job getting to that 2% 01:09:01.612 --> 01:09:04.189 mark for defense spending and GDP and 01:09:04.200 --> 01:09:06.422 that's , that's getting there quickly . 01:09:06.422 --> 01:09:08.644 And so it looks like to me that we need 01:09:08.644 --> 01:09:10.867 to continue to put pressure on Turkey . 01:09:10.867 --> 01:09:13.080 Does Turkey understand that if , if 01:09:13.089 --> 01:09:15.311 this does not happen , if the objection 01:09:15.311 --> 01:09:17.367 does not go away and Sweden does not 01:09:17.367 --> 01:09:20.169 exceed into NATO that their request for 01:09:20.180 --> 01:09:22.879 military equipment could be at peril . 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:28.089 So , yes , I mean , I think Turkey 01:09:28.100 --> 01:09:30.322 realizes and because they're hearing it 01:09:30.322 --> 01:09:32.489 not only from us but from all allies , 01:09:32.489 --> 01:09:35.470 the strong support for Sweden to join 01:09:35.479 --> 01:09:39.410 um by Vilnius , they also realize that 01:09:39.419 --> 01:09:43.358 um confirm ratifying Sweden uh by 01:09:43.369 --> 01:09:45.528 the Wildness Summit um would help in 01:09:45.539 --> 01:09:49.128 many of these um uh of the weapons um 01:09:49.139 --> 01:09:51.250 transfers that you're talking about . 01:09:51.278 --> 01:09:53.334 Yeah , I think it's critical that we 01:09:53.334 --> 01:09:55.334 continue and we are as a bipartisan 01:09:55.334 --> 01:09:57.500 group at least this last weekend . And 01:09:57.500 --> 01:09:59.500 I think uh consistently have , have 01:09:59.500 --> 01:10:01.878 projected that message from Congress to 01:10:01.889 --> 01:10:04.159 Turkish officials that we need them to 01:10:04.168 --> 01:10:06.001 cooperate in this manner because 01:10:06.001 --> 01:10:08.209 Sweden's a decision to come out of 01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:10.540 neutrality after 200 years , frankly , 01:10:10.549 --> 01:10:12.716 of being neutral . I mean , most folks 01:10:12.716 --> 01:10:14.771 don't know that that Sweden is a big 01:10:14.771 --> 01:10:16.938 step for them . They've been a neutral 01:10:16.938 --> 01:10:19.105 country for 200 years and they decided 01:10:19.105 --> 01:10:20.938 to come out and apply for a NATO 01:10:20.938 --> 01:10:22.993 membership . Uh They uh in the first 01:10:22.993 --> 01:10:25.216 time in about 80 years provided weapons 01:10:25.216 --> 01:10:27.105 systems to another country . They 01:10:27.105 --> 01:10:29.160 hadn't done that since the World War 01:10:29.160 --> 01:10:31.105 two time period . Uh Those are big 01:10:31.105 --> 01:10:33.327 steps for them to take uh to say we are 01:10:33.327 --> 01:10:35.299 on the side of what's good in this 01:10:35.310 --> 01:10:37.500 world and we need to meet that with uh 01:10:37.509 --> 01:10:40.060 appropriate force in my opinion and 01:10:40.069 --> 01:10:42.236 appropriate leverage to make sure that 01:10:42.236 --> 01:10:45.180 their , that their steps are um are 01:10:45.189 --> 01:10:47.411 successful in getting into NATO . Would 01:10:47.411 --> 01:10:49.745 you agree with that ? I agree with that . 01:10:49.745 --> 01:10:51.856 It's a historic shift that we've seen 01:10:51.856 --> 01:10:54.078 in both Finland and Sweden . These were 01:10:54.078 --> 01:10:56.245 centuries old policies of neutrality . 01:10:56.245 --> 01:10:58.411 And so a point that we frequently make 01:10:58.411 --> 01:11:00.689 to Turkey is not only is it about , um , 01:11:00.689 --> 01:11:02.759 Turkey , um , um , uh , demands on 01:11:02.770 --> 01:11:04.992 counter terrorism , but this is also an 01:11:04.992 --> 01:11:07.048 issue that affects alliance security 01:11:07.048 --> 01:11:09.103 and it affects the security of other 01:11:09.103 --> 01:11:11.326 allies as well . Right ? All right . So 01:11:11.326 --> 01:11:11.240 when we're talking about the NATO 01:11:11.250 --> 01:11:13.361 alliance , just with my last minute , 01:11:13.361 --> 01:11:15.472 let's , let's talk a little bit about 01:11:15.472 --> 01:11:17.472 Ukraine and I know they want to get 01:11:17.472 --> 01:11:19.583 into NATO one of these days . There's 01:11:19.583 --> 01:11:21.806 some hesitation to do that before peace 01:11:21.806 --> 01:11:23.972 after the Ukraine Russia war once that 01:11:23.972 --> 01:11:26.839 ends and there's talk about maybe a 01:11:26.850 --> 01:11:28.961 pathway . But at the Vilnius Summit , 01:11:28.961 --> 01:11:31.183 do you think it might be better just to 01:11:31.183 --> 01:11:33.406 send some set some benchmarks out there 01:11:33.406 --> 01:11:35.572 to say , hey , we need to get to these 01:11:35.572 --> 01:11:37.683 benchmarks before we even establish a 01:11:37.683 --> 01:11:39.461 pathway potentially for Ukraine 01:11:39.461 --> 01:11:41.517 becoming part of NATO . Do you think 01:11:41.517 --> 01:11:43.628 that's an appropriate and wise step ? 01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:45.680 Well , I think what we're trying to 01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:47.402 accomplish and I think we will 01:11:47.402 --> 01:11:49.513 accomplish is a really strong message 01:11:49.513 --> 01:11:51.930 of support for Ukraine including um not 01:11:51.939 --> 01:11:54.106 only , you know , going beyond what we 01:11:54.106 --> 01:11:57.180 said before about um our commitment 01:11:57.189 --> 01:12:00.220 that um Ukraine will become an ally , 01:12:00.569 --> 01:12:03.390 but also to provide increased support 01:12:03.399 --> 01:12:06.569 from NATO for its in its current 01:12:06.580 --> 01:12:09.350 conflict with Russia and also a really 01:12:09.359 --> 01:12:11.470 package that we're building really an 01:12:11.470 --> 01:12:13.879 unprecedented package to help Ukraine 01:12:13.890 --> 01:12:16.057 implement the reforms it needs so that 01:12:16.057 --> 01:12:18.319 it's ready to join NATO once the 01:12:18.330 --> 01:12:20.386 conflict ends . All right , thanks . 01:12:20.386 --> 01:12:22.529 I'd continue to urge you to , to do 01:12:22.540 --> 01:12:24.707 whatever we can for Sweden to get them 01:12:24.707 --> 01:12:26.929 into NATO . As you know , they're going 01:12:26.929 --> 01:12:28.762 to be a great long term economic 01:12:28.762 --> 01:12:30.762 diplomatic and military partner and 01:12:30.762 --> 01:12:32.873 them being part of NATO is a critical 01:12:32.873 --> 01:12:35.096 step in that process . So , thank you . 01:12:35.096 --> 01:12:38.089 Are you back ? Thank you , Mr Moran . I 01:12:38.100 --> 01:12:40.799 recognize Mr Wilson of South Carolina 01:12:40.810 --> 01:12:43.032 for five minutes . Thank you , Chairman 01:12:43.032 --> 01:12:44.540 Ken . And thank you and uh 01:12:44.549 --> 01:12:48.149 representative uh Bill Keating uh both 01:12:48.160 --> 01:12:49.882 secretaries , you're gonna see 01:12:49.882 --> 01:12:52.104 something really remarkable uh with the 01:12:52.104 --> 01:12:54.327 leadership of chairman keen uh where uh 01:12:54.327 --> 01:12:56.438 Republicans and Democrats want you to 01:12:56.438 --> 01:12:59.890 succeed . And that's why so many of the 01:12:59.899 --> 01:13:03.240 questions that you see and um are are 01:13:03.250 --> 01:13:05.959 meant to be very positive and they are 01:13:06.109 --> 01:13:08.020 and , but we want you to succeed 01:13:08.029 --> 01:13:09.751 because war criminal Putin has 01:13:09.751 --> 01:13:13.549 inadvertently unified NATO . As we 01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:16.109 see with uh Congress Moran , pointing 01:13:16.120 --> 01:13:19.160 out about uh Sweden joining NATO uh 01:13:19.169 --> 01:13:22.640 giving up . Uh it's neutralism after 01:13:22.649 --> 01:13:25.479 2200 years . Uh We see the um 01:13:25.490 --> 01:13:28.089 incredible people of Finland uh who 01:13:28.100 --> 01:13:30.156 were successful in the winter war of 01:13:30.156 --> 01:13:34.140 1939 to resist invasion . We see the 01:13:34.149 --> 01:13:35.871 European Union coming together 01:13:35.871 --> 01:13:39.509 providing over $75 billion of aid to 01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:42.609 the people of Ukraine And then again , 01:13:42.620 --> 01:13:45.189 possibly even more remarkable something 01:13:45.200 --> 01:13:47.311 that Putin didn't mean to do and that 01:13:47.311 --> 01:13:49.311 is get Republicans and Democrats to 01:13:49.311 --> 01:13:51.540 work together . And that's why we want 01:13:51.549 --> 01:13:53.660 you to succeed . And uh you could see 01:13:53.660 --> 01:13:56.540 by the uh questions um from uh 01:13:56.549 --> 01:13:59.020 Congressman Costa , uh congressman ran 01:13:59.029 --> 01:14:01.759 with the Interparliamentary uh assembly . 01:14:01.939 --> 01:14:04.930 Uh I , we want you to do well . Uh and 01:14:04.939 --> 01:14:07.100 then , uh I was really very pleased 01:14:07.109 --> 01:14:09.660 with the passion by congresswoman and 01:14:09.669 --> 01:14:13.640 uh and ambassador uh Ann Wagner . Uh we , 01:14:13.649 --> 01:14:15.871 we want the right weaponry delivered as 01:14:15.871 --> 01:14:18.038 quickly as possible . And in line with 01:14:18.038 --> 01:14:20.149 that , uh Miss Cooper , you mentioned 01:14:20.149 --> 01:14:22.149 the legislative restrictions on the 01:14:22.149 --> 01:14:24.660 provision of the and that's the dual 01:14:24.669 --> 01:14:28.649 purpose improved 01:14:28.660 --> 01:14:31.910 conventional munitions . However , 01:14:32.160 --> 01:14:34.160 there is a waiver available for the 01:14:34.160 --> 01:14:37.009 president that was not mentioned that 01:14:37.020 --> 01:14:39.399 he can exercise this waiver at any time 01:14:39.560 --> 01:14:41.560 and given the assessment that these 01:14:41.560 --> 01:14:43.660 would be effective for the people of 01:14:43.669 --> 01:14:46.799 Ukraine for the counter offensive . Why 01:14:46.810 --> 01:14:48.770 isn't this issue addressed with a 01:14:48.790 --> 01:14:52.549 waiver immediately ? Uh Congressman ? 01:14:52.560 --> 01:14:55.790 So , on the issue of um to pick , uh 01:14:55.799 --> 01:14:57.950 there is the , the , the question of 01:14:57.959 --> 01:14:59.959 congressional support and certainly 01:14:59.959 --> 01:15:01.848 there is a provision for a waiver 01:15:01.848 --> 01:15:03.959 that's absolutely accurate . Um But , 01:15:03.959 --> 01:15:06.126 but certainly the administration would 01:15:06.126 --> 01:15:08.181 want to understand , um , you know , 01:15:08.181 --> 01:15:10.292 congressional sentiment on this issue 01:15:10.292 --> 01:15:12.515 uh before taking such a step . And then 01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:14.353 the other piece of it that I had 01:15:14.353 --> 01:15:16.576 mentioned earlier is the alliance unity 01:15:16.576 --> 01:15:18.375 piece . Um Since we do have a 01:15:18.384 --> 01:15:21.084 considerable number of NATO members 01:15:21.095 --> 01:15:23.825 that have uh signed up to the 01:15:23.834 --> 01:15:25.556 convention prohibiting cluster 01:15:25.556 --> 01:15:27.556 munitions . There are some concerns 01:15:27.556 --> 01:15:29.556 about whether this would lead to um 01:15:29.556 --> 01:15:31.667 divisions . II I want you to be aware 01:15:31.667 --> 01:15:33.556 when you have uh good people . Uh 01:15:33.556 --> 01:15:36.294 Amazingly enough , like uh former NATO 01:15:36.305 --> 01:15:39.020 president of the NATO Parliamentary 01:15:39.029 --> 01:15:41.259 Assembly , Gerry Connolly here , he can 01:15:41.270 --> 01:15:44.290 verify to you that there's a majority 01:15:44.299 --> 01:15:47.240 in Congress that wants the picks to be 01:15:47.250 --> 01:15:50.399 provided that even though there may be 01:15:50.410 --> 01:15:53.339 members of NATO that will not be 01:15:53.350 --> 01:15:56.350 supportive , it needs to be done and 01:15:56.359 --> 01:16:00.240 for the benefit of success , we want 01:16:00.250 --> 01:16:02.290 President Biden to be successful in 01:16:02.299 --> 01:16:04.520 this initiative . And to be successful 01:16:04.529 --> 01:16:07.319 means that the people of Ukraine have 01:16:07.330 --> 01:16:09.399 the most advanced weaponry with the 01:16:09.410 --> 01:16:12.200 longest range , the most effectiveness 01:16:12.209 --> 01:16:15.680 to face a war criminal who 01:16:16.100 --> 01:16:19.200 the mining of Ukraine . I mean just 01:16:19.209 --> 01:16:21.379 over and over again , the war crimes 01:16:21.390 --> 01:16:23.612 are being committed with that in mind . 01:16:23.612 --> 01:16:27.229 Also , Secretary Jones uh following the 01:16:27.500 --> 01:16:30.520 2008 Bucharest summit , Ukraine's NATO 01:16:30.529 --> 01:16:33.000 aspirations were welcomed and a path to 01:16:33.009 --> 01:16:35.129 membership was confirmed . The people 01:16:35.140 --> 01:16:38.930 of Ukraine have certainly indicated and 01:16:38.939 --> 01:16:42.649 by giving blood to every effort that 01:16:42.660 --> 01:16:44.382 they want a clear path to NATO 01:16:44.382 --> 01:16:48.169 membership and Americans uh also want a 01:16:48.180 --> 01:16:51.279 victory . And that's why as myself , as 01:16:51.290 --> 01:16:53.568 chairman of the US Helsinki Commission , 01:16:53.649 --> 01:16:56.779 we introduced House Resolution 3 32 01:16:56.790 --> 01:16:59.180 which defines victory in a path forward 01:16:59.189 --> 01:17:01.339 for NATO membership . And also it's 01:17:01.350 --> 01:17:04.410 bipartisan with 12 other members to 01:17:04.419 --> 01:17:06.641 provide for President Biden to call for 01:17:06.641 --> 01:17:08.870 a concrete pathway for Ukraine at the 01:17:09.189 --> 01:17:12.529 summit to provide for NATO 01:17:12.540 --> 01:17:16.020 membership with that . Why is , why is 01:17:16.029 --> 01:17:18.490 the administration hesitant on moving 01:17:18.500 --> 01:17:20.180 ahead with Ukraine ? 01:17:23.060 --> 01:17:25.720 So I think , you know , as I've said , 01:17:25.729 --> 01:17:27.959 one of our top goals for this summit is 01:17:27.970 --> 01:17:30.192 a strong message of support for Ukraine 01:17:31.330 --> 01:17:34.250 and to not only reaffirm what the 01:17:34.259 --> 01:17:36.370 allies said at Bucharest that Ukraine 01:17:36.370 --> 01:17:38.537 will become a member of the alliance , 01:17:38.537 --> 01:17:40.439 but also to back that up with an 01:17:40.450 --> 01:17:43.240 increased package of non lethal support 01:17:43.250 --> 01:17:46.140 larger than before . And also to unveil 01:17:46.149 --> 01:17:50.020 this package of support to 01:17:50.029 --> 01:17:52.560 signal the all the alliance's long term 01:17:52.569 --> 01:17:54.680 commitment that the alliance is there 01:17:54.680 --> 01:17:56.791 to support Ukraine over the long term 01:17:56.791 --> 01:17:59.013 and to focus this assistance on helping 01:17:59.013 --> 01:18:01.180 Ukraine meet its reform agenda so that 01:18:01.180 --> 01:18:03.810 they can meet nato's membership 01:18:03.819 --> 01:18:07.459 standards because Ukraine and 01:18:07.470 --> 01:18:11.020 allies agree that Ukraine can't join 01:18:11.270 --> 01:18:13.930 NATO while there's an active conflict . 01:18:14.779 --> 01:18:18.310 But we can through this assistance , 01:18:18.850 --> 01:18:21.729 help Ukraine to advance its reform so 01:18:21.740 --> 01:18:24.459 it can be ready to join NATO when 01:18:24.470 --> 01:18:26.637 conditions permit . Well , there'll be 01:18:26.637 --> 01:18:28.859 bipartisan support for this and I yield 01:18:28.859 --> 01:18:30.770 back . Thank you . Thank you , Mr 01:18:30.779 --> 01:18:34.000 Wilson . Uh I now recognize uh Mr 01:18:34.009 --> 01:18:36.342 Connolly from Virginia for five minutes . 01:18:36.342 --> 01:18:38.565 Thank you Mr Chairman and thank you for 01:18:38.565 --> 01:18:40.787 allowing me to participate . Welcome to 01:18:40.787 --> 01:18:42.953 our two witnesses . Uh And let me just 01:18:42.953 --> 01:18:44.953 say , I think uh hopefully you have 01:18:44.953 --> 01:18:47.120 heard on a bipartisan basis and I hope 01:18:47.120 --> 01:18:49.231 it helps you diplomatically and , and 01:18:49.649 --> 01:18:51.927 counterpart to counterpart discussions . 01:18:51.990 --> 01:18:54.629 I think , I do think the sentiment here 01:18:54.640 --> 01:18:57.879 in Congress is no F-16s or major weapon 01:18:57.890 --> 01:19:00.899 sales to Turkey until they have decided 01:19:00.910 --> 01:19:03.970 to release Sweden and allow Sweden's 01:19:03.979 --> 01:19:07.939 succession immediately into NATO Turkey 01:19:07.950 --> 01:19:11.700 doesn't get uh to do that without , 01:19:11.770 --> 01:19:13.492 you know , to block it without 01:19:13.492 --> 01:19:16.720 consequences . Um I also believe that 01:19:17.189 --> 01:19:19.356 in Congress , there's probably broad , 01:19:19.356 --> 01:19:22.020 broad support for going ahead with 01:19:22.029 --> 01:19:24.189 F-16s for Ukraine and going ahead at 01:19:24.200 --> 01:19:26.479 Vilnius and giving the green light to 01:19:26.490 --> 01:19:28.657 an invitation , a direct invitation to 01:19:28.657 --> 01:19:32.319 Ukraine for membership . Um Miss 01:19:32.330 --> 01:19:35.649 Cooper , I would say to you um I 01:19:35.660 --> 01:19:37.609 appreciate and I think a lot of my 01:19:37.620 --> 01:19:39.959 colleagues appreciate your concern and 01:19:39.970 --> 01:19:41.970 deference to Congress about certain 01:19:41.970 --> 01:19:44.919 things like cluster bombs . Uh That's , 01:19:44.930 --> 01:19:47.779 that's not a , a non controversial item 01:19:47.979 --> 01:19:50.169 and it's not necessarily on the 01:19:50.180 --> 01:19:52.390 approved list on a bipartisan basis 01:19:52.629 --> 01:19:54.850 going to Ukraine . Uh And we need to 01:19:54.859 --> 01:19:56.915 have that debate and that discussion 01:19:56.915 --> 01:19:59.026 and it's , you're absolutely right to 01:19:59.026 --> 01:20:01.129 express the caution you did from my 01:20:01.140 --> 01:20:04.709 point of view . Uh Mr Assistant 01:20:04.720 --> 01:20:07.669 Secretary , um I'm gonna ask you two 01:20:07.680 --> 01:20:11.410 questions . One is uh maybe easy or 01:20:11.419 --> 01:20:13.620 than the other . The other one is not 01:20:13.629 --> 01:20:16.509 gonna be particularly uh an invitation 01:20:16.520 --> 01:20:18.742 to a diplomatic answer , but it's gonna 01:20:18.742 --> 01:20:20.798 be direct . Uh So the first one is , 01:20:20.798 --> 01:20:22.909 where are we , as you know , the NATO 01:20:22.909 --> 01:20:25.310 Parliamentary Assembly has virtually 01:20:25.319 --> 01:20:27.160 unanimously . Hundreds of 01:20:27.169 --> 01:20:31.120 parliamentarians representing 31 01:20:31.129 --> 01:20:33.479 parliaments have recommended the 01:20:33.490 --> 01:20:35.490 creation of a Center for democratic 01:20:35.490 --> 01:20:37.990 resilience at NATO itself . So that we , 01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:40.950 we are in fact operationalized the 01:20:40.959 --> 01:20:42.790 avowed commitment . We have to 01:20:42.799 --> 01:20:45.049 democratic shared values , creating an 01:20:45.060 --> 01:20:47.560 architecture to propound advocate for 01:20:47.810 --> 01:20:51.620 uh and be a resource about democracy 01:20:51.629 --> 01:20:53.589 and democratic institutions real 01:20:53.600 --> 01:20:55.600 briefly , where are we in that ? Uh 01:20:55.600 --> 01:20:57.822 Because last time I checked , we had uh 01:20:57.822 --> 01:21:01.379 29 out of 30 ambassadors to North 01:21:01.390 --> 01:21:04.020 Atlantic Council supporting the idea . 01:21:05.669 --> 01:21:07.725 So we support the idea . We think it 01:21:07.725 --> 01:21:09.947 would be an important forum for NATO to 01:21:09.947 --> 01:21:12.350 protect its shared values that are the 01:21:12.359 --> 01:21:14.415 basis for the alliance . And we have 01:21:14.415 --> 01:21:16.950 advocated for this at NATO . We made a 01:21:16.959 --> 01:21:19.126 strong push for this before the Madrid 01:21:19.126 --> 01:21:21.292 summit , but unfortunately , there was 01:21:21.292 --> 01:21:23.529 not NATO consensus or unanimity as is 01:21:23.540 --> 01:21:26.350 required for all NATO decisions . And 01:21:26.359 --> 01:21:29.979 so we elected um rather than take on 01:21:29.990 --> 01:21:32.299 um amendments to that proposal that 01:21:32.310 --> 01:21:34.421 would have in our mind gutted it . We 01:21:34.421 --> 01:21:36.199 elected to play a long game and 01:21:36.199 --> 01:21:38.439 continue to push for this . Um And we 01:21:38.450 --> 01:21:42.180 are regularly um raising this um at 01:21:42.189 --> 01:21:44.411 NATO including at recent North Atlantic 01:21:44.411 --> 01:21:48.089 Council meetings . And um we um 01:21:49.200 --> 01:21:51.311 don't think this will be delivered by 01:21:51.311 --> 01:21:53.478 Madrid , I mean , by , by Vilnius . Uh 01:21:53.478 --> 01:21:55.939 But we think um we can keep uh 01:21:55.950 --> 01:21:57.950 advocating for this and in the long 01:21:57.950 --> 01:22:00.172 term , um well , taking a page out of M 01:22:00.172 --> 01:22:02.394 Cooper's book , I think it is important 01:22:02.394 --> 01:22:04.394 to take caucus is the fact that the 01:22:04.394 --> 01:22:06.283 House of Representatives passed a 01:22:06.283 --> 01:22:08.600 resolution endorsing this uh on a big 01:22:08.609 --> 01:22:11.850 bipartisan vote . So , you know , uh 01:22:11.959 --> 01:22:14.509 it's not like some stray idea that 01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:16.944 might be good to pursue . Not that 01:22:16.944 --> 01:22:18.722 you're saying that , but it has 01:22:18.722 --> 01:22:21.060 standing in Congress , we actually 01:22:21.069 --> 01:22:23.910 acted on it and I think that the 01:22:23.919 --> 01:22:25.919 support from the NATO parliamentary 01:22:25.919 --> 01:22:27.919 Assembly has actually been critical 01:22:27.950 --> 01:22:30.061 effort and it makes a big impact with 01:22:30.061 --> 01:22:32.172 those . Now , you're being allies who 01:22:32.172 --> 01:22:34.394 have not , you're being diplomatic . Mr 01:22:34.394 --> 01:22:36.617 Jones , you said we operate unanimously 01:22:36.617 --> 01:22:39.370 and I pointed out 29 or 30 ambassadors 01:22:39.379 --> 01:22:41.580 support it . So who pray tell is not 01:22:41.589 --> 01:22:43.367 supporting it and blocking it ? 01:22:46.959 --> 01:22:49.990 Well , I , you can say it all right . I 01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:52.222 prefer not to talk about what happens . 01:22:52.222 --> 01:22:54.222 I know , but we , we prefer to talk 01:22:54.222 --> 01:22:56.444 about it . All right . Well , I think , 01:22:56.444 --> 01:22:59.660 you know , so did I hear you say hungry ? 01:23:01.450 --> 01:23:03.506 Yes , that's what I thought you said 01:23:03.506 --> 01:23:06.549 that . Um , so real quickly . But I , 01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:08.782 I'll , I'll make a statement so I don't 01:23:08.782 --> 01:23:10.838 put you in it . I , I think the time 01:23:10.838 --> 01:23:12.949 has come to reassess the relationship 01:23:12.949 --> 01:23:15.116 with Hungary across the board . The eu 01:23:15.116 --> 01:23:17.282 is doing it and it has suspended aid . 01:23:17.282 --> 01:23:19.709 It is , it is absolutely going down a 01:23:19.720 --> 01:23:22.390 road that compromises democratic 01:23:22.399 --> 01:23:24.430 institutions . It has publicly 01:23:24.439 --> 01:23:26.272 criticized the United States for 01:23:26.272 --> 01:23:28.272 undermining its own legitimacy as a 01:23:28.272 --> 01:23:31.640 government rather than Russia . It has 01:23:31.649 --> 01:23:33.740 strengthened its relationships with 01:23:33.750 --> 01:23:35.917 Russia in the middle of a war . It has 01:23:35.917 --> 01:23:38.028 threatened to block further sanctions 01:23:38.160 --> 01:23:40.660 and it's blocking certainly the 01:23:40.669 --> 01:23:42.891 membership of Sweden , the accession of 01:23:42.891 --> 01:23:45.479 Sweden to NATO . It raises serious 01:23:45.490 --> 01:23:48.430 questions about a viper at our breast 01:23:49.229 --> 01:23:52.020 in NATO . And I , I think the time has 01:23:52.029 --> 01:23:54.140 come for a serious reassessment about 01:23:54.140 --> 01:23:56.473 the relationship with Hungary with that . 01:23:56.473 --> 01:23:58.751 Are you back , Mr Chairman ? Thank you . 01:23:58.810 --> 01:24:00.879 Thank you , Mr Connolly . Uh I now 01:24:00.890 --> 01:24:03.740 recognize Mr Heisinger for five minutes . 01:24:05.100 --> 01:24:08.410 Yes . And then you , you're back . Ok ? 01:24:09.629 --> 01:24:10.259 To defer 01:24:15.700 --> 01:24:18.200 Mr Schneider , I yield to you for five 01:24:18.209 --> 01:24:20.990 minutes . Uh Thank you , Mr Chairman 01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:23.009 and thank you for allowing me to uh 01:24:23.020 --> 01:24:25.242 wave on to the committee and , and join 01:24:25.242 --> 01:24:27.409 the conversation . I want to thank the 01:24:27.409 --> 01:24:29.464 witnesses and uh to my friend , Mr , 01:24:29.464 --> 01:24:31.687 I'm happy to go along . I've been there 01:24:31.687 --> 01:24:34.160 before . So , um you know , I thank you 01:24:34.169 --> 01:24:36.720 guys very much . We've talked a lot 01:24:36.729 --> 01:24:38.729 about NATO and the NATO alliance is 01:24:38.740 --> 01:24:40.296 truly one of the remarkable 01:24:40.296 --> 01:24:42.970 accomplishments of , of uh the last 80 01:24:42.979 --> 01:24:45.419 years and is unprecedented in global 01:24:45.430 --> 01:24:48.439 history . Uh at this moment with so 01:24:48.450 --> 01:24:50.850 many countries coming together united 01:24:50.859 --> 01:24:53.169 to defend each other , but also to 01:24:53.180 --> 01:24:55.430 defend democracy in the free world . 01:24:55.669 --> 01:24:57.836 And as we've discussed here today , we 01:24:57.836 --> 01:24:59.780 need to make sure that uh not only 01:24:59.780 --> 01:25:02.450 Finland but Sweden is able to join NATO 01:25:03.250 --> 01:25:05.569 when the Cold War ended . Uh the need 01:25:05.580 --> 01:25:08.350 for the alliance was questioned . Few 01:25:08.359 --> 01:25:10.526 could even conceive of the possibility 01:25:10.526 --> 01:25:13.700 of a land war in Europe . But Russia's 01:25:13.709 --> 01:25:15.931 illegal invasion of Ukraine has made it 01:25:15.931 --> 01:25:18.153 clear that the free world needs to work 01:25:18.153 --> 01:25:20.153 together as much as ever . And that 01:25:20.153 --> 01:25:22.899 America must lead as we have over the 01:25:22.910 --> 01:25:25.310 past year and a half . Ukraine's fight 01:25:25.319 --> 01:25:27.541 has been an inspiration from the day it 01:25:27.541 --> 01:25:29.520 was invaded and President Zelinsky 01:25:29.529 --> 01:25:32.580 refusal to leave Kiev and to lead his 01:25:32.589 --> 01:25:34.700 nation has been an inspiration to the 01:25:34.700 --> 01:25:36.645 world . It's been our privilege to 01:25:36.645 --> 01:25:38.422 support the brave Ukrainian war 01:25:38.422 --> 01:25:40.645 fighters who sacrificed and continue to 01:25:40.645 --> 01:25:43.589 sacrifice each and every day . This war 01:25:43.600 --> 01:25:46.029 will end when the guns stop firing . 01:25:46.669 --> 01:25:49.770 But the peace can only begin once 01:25:49.779 --> 01:25:53.020 Ukraine has ironclad guarantees of its 01:25:53.029 --> 01:25:56.049 independence and its security . Uh What 01:25:56.060 --> 01:25:58.116 I'd like to ask both of you is , can 01:25:58.116 --> 01:26:01.529 you touch on what is significant and , 01:26:01.540 --> 01:26:04.540 and what put potential guarantees um 01:26:05.959 --> 01:26:08.240 would , would help Ukraine and , and 01:26:08.250 --> 01:26:10.259 what are the advantages and 01:26:10.270 --> 01:26:12.680 disadvantages of providing those 01:26:12.689 --> 01:26:13.689 guarantees ? 01:26:17.140 --> 01:26:19.196 I think I'll talk briefly about NATO 01:26:19.196 --> 01:26:21.069 and then pass it to his Deputy 01:26:21.080 --> 01:26:24.879 Assistant Secretary , Cooper NATO , of 01:26:24.890 --> 01:26:27.001 course , provides security guarantees 01:26:27.001 --> 01:26:29.430 only to NATO allies of which Ukraine is 01:26:29.439 --> 01:26:31.850 not a member . But what , what NATO is 01:26:31.859 --> 01:26:35.069 looking to do is to send 01:26:35.870 --> 01:26:39.370 rather through this longer term 01:26:39.490 --> 01:26:42.640 package of support at NATO indication 01:26:42.649 --> 01:26:44.919 of its commitment to support Ukraine in 01:26:44.930 --> 01:26:46.930 its struggle in the way that it can 01:26:46.930 --> 01:26:48.763 primarily through its non lethal 01:26:48.763 --> 01:26:50.930 assistance to complement the bilateral 01:26:50.930 --> 01:26:52.874 lethal assistance and to make that 01:26:52.874 --> 01:26:55.330 commitment not only sort of year to 01:26:55.339 --> 01:26:57.506 year as it has been done so far in the 01:26:57.506 --> 01:26:59.672 past , but to talk about a much longer 01:26:59.672 --> 01:27:01.728 term commitment to indicate the long 01:27:01.728 --> 01:27:05.609 term NATO support for Ukraine and then 01:27:05.620 --> 01:27:07.676 Congressman , I'll just fill in from 01:27:07.676 --> 01:27:09.564 the bilateral perspective , which 01:27:09.564 --> 01:27:11.620 complements this NATO perspective on 01:27:11.620 --> 01:27:14.180 how to assure Ukraine in the long term , 01:27:14.189 --> 01:27:16.133 the United States , but also other 01:27:16.133 --> 01:27:18.950 allies are considering how we can 01:27:18.959 --> 01:27:21.580 convey that long term support . And 01:27:21.589 --> 01:27:23.533 it's a security issue . So it's an 01:27:23.533 --> 01:27:25.700 issue for my department when you think 01:27:25.700 --> 01:27:27.700 about ensuring the viability of the 01:27:27.700 --> 01:27:30.033 Ukrainian armed forces in the long term . 01:27:30.033 --> 01:27:32.089 But it's also important to note that 01:27:32.089 --> 01:27:34.311 this is an economic um and recovery and 01:27:34.311 --> 01:27:36.256 reconstruction issue as well . And 01:27:36.256 --> 01:27:38.200 that's where you see um you know , 01:27:38.200 --> 01:27:40.367 allies and partners coming together in 01:27:40.367 --> 01:27:42.645 London uh to talk about reconstruction . 01:27:42.645 --> 01:27:44.811 So we are engaging in these , in these 01:27:44.811 --> 01:27:47.033 conversations , um you know , privately 01:27:47.033 --> 01:27:49.214 and we are uh working on how we might 01:27:49.225 --> 01:27:51.558 be able to provide this kind of support . 01:27:51.604 --> 01:27:53.437 Great . Thank you and you know , 01:27:53.437 --> 01:27:55.620 expanding the , the view or uh 01:27:55.629 --> 01:27:57.796 expanding the focus for a second , you 01:27:57.796 --> 01:28:00.018 know , the other gray zones independent 01:28:00.018 --> 01:28:01.907 from Russia , but within striking 01:28:01.907 --> 01:28:04.073 distance is , for example , um Georgia 01:28:04.073 --> 01:28:07.959 and Moldova . Um what should we do 01:28:07.970 --> 01:28:11.520 in those circumstances ? Uh Congressman , 01:28:11.529 --> 01:28:13.696 I spend um when I'm not thinking about 01:28:13.696 --> 01:28:15.669 Ukraine or Russia , I tend to be 01:28:15.680 --> 01:28:17.736 thinking about Moldova and Georgia a 01:28:17.736 --> 01:28:20.770 good deal . Um And um what we have seen 01:28:20.779 --> 01:28:22.890 is very different in both countries , 01:28:22.890 --> 01:28:25.709 but in both cases , we have um during 01:28:25.720 --> 01:28:28.625 this period of crisis have redoubled 01:28:28.634 --> 01:28:31.375 our effort to have strong military to 01:28:31.384 --> 01:28:34.805 military ties and to maintain our 01:28:34.814 --> 01:28:37.334 support for these countries to be able 01:28:37.345 --> 01:28:40.265 to defend themselves . Uh Recognizing 01:28:40.274 --> 01:28:42.765 that the threat is quite real , I'll 01:28:42.774 --> 01:28:45.964 leave it at that . Ok . Am I just 01:28:45.975 --> 01:28:48.970 wanted to add that following Russia's 01:28:48.979 --> 01:28:51.090 full scale invasion of Ukraine ? NATO 01:28:51.090 --> 01:28:53.330 realized that some of its partners were 01:28:53.339 --> 01:28:55.569 at risk to Russian Malign influence and 01:28:55.580 --> 01:28:59.109 that includes Georgia Moldova , but 01:28:59.120 --> 01:29:01.399 also Bosnia Herzegovina . And it has 01:29:01.879 --> 01:29:04.549 initiated tailored packages for each 01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:07.359 one to help them resist malign 01:29:07.370 --> 01:29:10.060 influence . And also the alliance will 01:29:10.069 --> 01:29:12.125 be inviting the foreign ministers of 01:29:12.125 --> 01:29:15.060 these three countries to come to the 01:29:15.069 --> 01:29:16.902 summit to meet with NATO foreign 01:29:16.902 --> 01:29:19.750 Ministers um as a as a sign of support 01:29:19.759 --> 01:29:21.926 for them and the special focus on them 01:29:21.926 --> 01:29:24.259 as , as at risk , NATO partners . Great . 01:29:24.259 --> 01:29:26.370 Thank you , my red lights on . So I'm 01:29:26.370 --> 01:29:28.537 out of time , but I would be negligent 01:29:28.537 --> 01:29:28.290 if I didn't mention I am the co chair 01:29:28.299 --> 01:29:30.259 with my friend Joe Wilson of the 01:29:30.270 --> 01:29:33.020 Bulgaria caucus . And if we had more 01:29:33.029 --> 01:29:34.918 time , uh we would talk about the 01:29:34.918 --> 01:29:36.918 Balkans as well . Uh Thank you , uh 01:29:36.918 --> 01:29:40.500 Yield Beck . Thank you chair and I 01:29:40.509 --> 01:29:42.842 recognize Mr Heisinger for five minutes . 01:29:43.000 --> 01:29:45.222 Thank you , Mr Kane . I appreciate your 01:29:45.222 --> 01:29:47.389 indulgence and uh giving me a moment . 01:29:47.560 --> 01:29:49.770 Uh um I had a uh I had a chance this 01:29:49.779 --> 01:29:52.549 past weekend to be in Stockholm in 01:29:52.560 --> 01:29:55.000 Sweden uh with the transatlantic 01:29:55.009 --> 01:29:58.439 legislative dialogue um that uh as you 01:29:58.450 --> 01:30:00.609 can imagine , fascinating time . Uh 01:30:00.620 --> 01:30:03.319 right now , uh with uh with what's been 01:30:03.330 --> 01:30:05.270 going on , there was uh there was 01:30:05.279 --> 01:30:07.168 members of the EU parliament from 01:30:07.168 --> 01:30:09.390 Finland that were there and a number of 01:30:09.390 --> 01:30:11.668 other uh num number of other countries , 01:30:11.668 --> 01:30:14.209 uh quite a lot of conversation about uh 01:30:14.220 --> 01:30:17.160 Sweden's ascension into NATO . Uh And I 01:30:17.169 --> 01:30:20.410 just want to publicly uh again , state 01:30:20.419 --> 01:30:23.479 my support of that and uh we hope that 01:30:23.609 --> 01:30:26.009 uh those that appear to be holding this 01:30:26.020 --> 01:30:29.129 back , uh Hungary and Turkey uh that uh 01:30:29.140 --> 01:30:31.799 that they come to their senses on this 01:30:31.810 --> 01:30:34.540 and uh that they see that this would be 01:30:34.549 --> 01:30:37.279 a positive uh positive thing to uh to , 01:30:37.290 --> 01:30:40.799 to have for NATO . Um One of the , one 01:30:40.810 --> 01:30:42.699 of the issues that I discussed at 01:30:42.699 --> 01:30:44.588 length while we were there with a 01:30:44.588 --> 01:30:47.169 number of our European colleagues was 01:30:47.180 --> 01:30:49.839 the Arctic and uh what was going on uh 01:30:49.850 --> 01:30:53.850 certainly with Finland and Sweden uh uh 01:30:53.859 --> 01:30:56.250 or hopefully soon Sweden now being a 01:30:56.259 --> 01:30:58.259 part of NATO , they are part of the 01:30:58.259 --> 01:31:00.509 Arctic Council . Uh Russia is also a 01:31:00.520 --> 01:31:02.353 part of that Arctic Council . Uh 01:31:02.353 --> 01:31:05.129 Incredibly China is trying to claim 01:31:05.140 --> 01:31:08.549 near Arctic uh uh status 01:31:08.859 --> 01:31:12.049 uh and seem to have a cooperation with 01:31:12.060 --> 01:31:14.227 Russia about that . In fact , uh these 01:31:14.227 --> 01:31:17.479 are published public uh uh uh uh 01:31:17.580 --> 01:31:21.430 facts that uh Canada earlier this 01:31:21.439 --> 01:31:23.990 year uh discovered Chinese listening 01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:27.000 buoys in , in Canadian waters uh up in 01:31:27.009 --> 01:31:29.200 the Arctic . Uh So I've been uh I've 01:31:29.209 --> 01:31:32.810 been uh seeing that uh this is not just 01:31:33.339 --> 01:31:37.149 a uh a strategic area , 01:31:37.160 --> 01:31:40.109 valuable and ripe with uh with valuable 01:31:40.120 --> 01:31:42.930 commodities and energy and minerals . 01:31:42.939 --> 01:31:45.290 It's also uh has commercial 01:31:45.299 --> 01:31:48.330 geopolitical implications and frankly 01:31:48.339 --> 01:31:51.325 security implications . And uh it's no 01:31:51.334 --> 01:31:54.794 doubt that China has uh has its eyes 01:31:54.805 --> 01:31:56.814 and designs on that . And in fact , 01:31:56.825 --> 01:31:58.769 they even has something called the 01:31:58.769 --> 01:32:02.404 Polar Silk Road uh initiative . So it 01:32:02.415 --> 01:32:04.984 cannot be ignored . Uh that uh that 01:32:04.995 --> 01:32:08.524 that area is uh RS in its importance . 01:32:08.535 --> 01:32:10.899 So uh recently I sent a letter with the 01:32:10.910 --> 01:32:13.132 support of uh uh Chairman Kaine and and 01:32:13.132 --> 01:32:14.910 fellow members of the , of this 01:32:14.910 --> 01:32:17.132 committee , Secretary Blinken , seeking 01:32:17.132 --> 01:32:19.021 States plan to bolster our Arctic 01:32:19.029 --> 01:32:21.500 allies and partners to thwart Russia 01:32:21.509 --> 01:32:23.620 and Chinese influence in the region . 01:32:23.740 --> 01:32:25.629 Uh Within the letter I pointed to 01:32:25.629 --> 01:32:27.851 Finland's ascension to NATO in addition 01:32:27.851 --> 01:32:29.796 to Sweden's pending ascension as a 01:32:29.796 --> 01:32:31.851 marker of a fundamental shift in the 01:32:31.851 --> 01:32:34.259 Arctic . Um So , uh first and foremost , 01:32:34.270 --> 01:32:36.437 uh and I guess this would be to you uh 01:32:36.437 --> 01:32:38.799 uh Deputy Assistant Secretary Jones , 01:32:39.109 --> 01:32:40.998 uh what can NATO do to expand and 01:32:40.998 --> 01:32:42.887 strengthen our partnership in the 01:32:42.887 --> 01:32:44.609 Arctic ? And is there a common 01:32:44.609 --> 01:32:46.879 understanding or a path ahead from NATO 01:32:46.890 --> 01:32:49.080 on further engagement in the Arctic 01:32:49.089 --> 01:32:51.200 region or are there some other member 01:32:51.200 --> 01:32:53.089 nations that might take some more 01:32:53.089 --> 01:32:54.089 convincing ? 01:32:57.290 --> 01:33:01.140 So I agree that the Arctic is a uh area 01:33:01.149 --> 01:33:03.310 of increased um attention . It's 01:33:03.319 --> 01:33:05.509 growing geopolitic geo strategic 01:33:05.520 --> 01:33:07.779 challenges and it's also rising on 01:33:07.790 --> 01:33:10.080 nato's agenda . As you mentioned , when 01:33:10.089 --> 01:33:13.750 uh Sweden and Finland , uh join the 01:33:13.759 --> 01:33:17.009 alliance . Um Then um seven of the 01:33:17.020 --> 01:33:19.187 eight Arctic nations will be in NATO . 01:33:19.490 --> 01:33:21.601 So that's a lot more of the Arctic in 01:33:21.601 --> 01:33:24.779 NATO . Um And NATO um uh 01:33:24.790 --> 01:33:27.870 also sees a rising importance there 01:33:27.879 --> 01:33:30.339 primarily as a result of Russia's 01:33:30.350 --> 01:33:32.517 increased military presence in what it 01:33:32.517 --> 01:33:34.709 calls the High North and also China . 01:33:34.720 --> 01:33:36.887 Ok , we , we've got just a little over 01:33:36.887 --> 01:33:38.776 a minute now . I want to hit on a 01:33:38.776 --> 01:33:40.831 couple of other quick things . Um uh 01:33:40.831 --> 01:33:43.339 There was a 2020 2022 report titled the 01:33:43.350 --> 01:33:45.919 National Strategy for the Arctic region . 01:33:46.180 --> 01:33:48.990 Um One of the areas was sustainable 01:33:49.000 --> 01:33:51.279 development capacity . Uh However , 01:33:51.290 --> 01:33:53.620 security capacity was not uh was not 01:33:53.629 --> 01:33:55.740 mentioned in that . Uh And I'm trying 01:33:55.740 --> 01:33:57.962 to push the push on . This is the Biden 01:33:57.962 --> 01:34:00.073 administration support the idea of an 01:34:00.073 --> 01:34:02.073 escalated involvement in the Arctic 01:34:02.073 --> 01:34:03.962 region , not just for development 01:34:03.962 --> 01:34:06.185 reasons and for sustainable development 01:34:06.185 --> 01:34:08.018 reasons , but for , for security 01:34:08.018 --> 01:34:11.790 reasons , you understand my distinction 01:34:11.799 --> 01:34:13.855 here , right ? I mean , the security 01:34:13.855 --> 01:34:16.419 was not and military importance and 01:34:16.430 --> 01:34:18.597 security importance wasn't discussed , 01:34:18.597 --> 01:34:20.819 but there was a lot of emphasis more on 01:34:20.819 --> 01:34:23.620 sustainability . Uh And , and I wanna 01:34:23.629 --> 01:34:25.740 make sure that we're not just focused 01:34:25.740 --> 01:34:27.962 on sustainability and green initiatives 01:34:27.962 --> 01:34:30.129 in the Arctic . I wanna make sure that 01:34:30.129 --> 01:34:31.962 we are also seeing the strategic 01:34:31.962 --> 01:34:34.629 military as well as security elements 01:34:34.640 --> 01:34:37.759 uh in the Arctic . So , 01:34:38.569 --> 01:34:41.819 Congressman , I , I um you know , aside 01:34:41.830 --> 01:34:44.200 from that , that particular document , 01:34:44.209 --> 01:34:46.759 um I can just emphasize that yes , we 01:34:46.770 --> 01:34:50.020 recognize the strategic um and security 01:34:50.029 --> 01:34:53.029 dimensions of the Arctic . Um And we 01:34:53.040 --> 01:34:55.270 have long recognized the the male 01:34:55.490 --> 01:34:57.979 malevolent role that Russia plays in 01:34:57.990 --> 01:35:01.060 the region and now are very mindful of 01:35:01.069 --> 01:35:03.500 watching uh China's moves . So this , 01:35:03.509 --> 01:35:05.176 this is an occupation for the 01:35:05.176 --> 01:35:06.953 Department of Defense and it is 01:35:06.953 --> 01:35:09.287 something that , that we are focused on . 01:35:09.287 --> 01:35:11.398 Ok . And I know Mr Chairman , my time 01:35:11.398 --> 01:35:13.620 is up and I'd like to follow up with uh 01:35:13.620 --> 01:35:15.731 uh some written questions through the 01:35:15.731 --> 01:35:17.953 chair to you about an Arctic uh unified 01:35:17.953 --> 01:35:20.134 Arctic NATO command uh as well as uh 01:35:20.145 --> 01:35:22.145 how NATO can address the challenges 01:35:22.145 --> 01:35:24.854 from the PR C in that Arctic security 01:35:24.865 --> 01:35:26.754 regarding Arctic security in that 01:35:26.754 --> 01:35:28.921 region . So uh with that Mr Chairman , 01:35:28.921 --> 01:35:31.087 I appreciate your indulgence and yield 01:35:31.087 --> 01:35:33.198 back without , without objection . We 01:35:33.198 --> 01:35:35.143 certainly will . Um But no further 01:35:35.143 --> 01:35:37.087 questions from members . I want to 01:35:37.087 --> 01:35:39.254 thank our witnesses for their valuable 01:35:39.254 --> 01:35:41.254 testimony and the members for their 01:35:41.254 --> 01:35:43.365 questions . In closing . I would like 01:35:43.365 --> 01:35:45.890 to make some brief remarks , Mr Jones . 01:35:45.899 --> 01:35:48.066 I appreciate the steps you laid out in 01:35:48.066 --> 01:35:50.439 reaffirming NATO allies , strong 01:35:50.450 --> 01:35:53.759 support for Ukraine . However , none of 01:35:53.770 --> 01:35:55.659 the steps you outlined to provide 01:35:55.659 --> 01:35:59.140 Ukraine a clear path to NATO membership . 01:35:59.149 --> 01:36:02.560 When conditions allow only by providing 01:36:02.569 --> 01:36:04.899 a clear path , can we signal to Putin 01:36:05.040 --> 01:36:07.151 that he cannot achieve his objectives 01:36:07.151 --> 01:36:09.151 on the battlefield and he will lose 01:36:09.151 --> 01:36:11.799 this war , our allies from Poland to 01:36:11.810 --> 01:36:14.220 the Baltic States to even now , France 01:36:14.850 --> 01:36:17.819 are pushing for a clearer path . US 01:36:17.830 --> 01:36:20.500 leadership is required to get this over 01:36:20.509 --> 01:36:22.676 the finish line . And I fear from what 01:36:22.676 --> 01:36:24.676 I've heard today that the US may in 01:36:24.676 --> 01:36:26.898 fact be impeding this critical effort . 01:36:26.970 --> 01:36:30.529 The US needs to do more then simply put 01:36:30.540 --> 01:36:32.830 window dressing on the 2008 Bucharest 01:36:32.839 --> 01:36:35.500 pledge . The members of the 01:36:35.509 --> 01:36:37.620 subcommittee may have some additional 01:36:37.620 --> 01:36:39.842 written questions for the witnesses and 01:36:39.842 --> 01:36:41.787 that we will ask you to respond to 01:36:41.787 --> 01:36:44.009 these promptly in writing . Pursuant to 01:36:44.009 --> 01:36:46.120 the committee rules , all members may 01:36:46.120 --> 01:36:47.842 have five days submit , submit 01:36:47.842 --> 01:36:49.842 statements , questions , extraneous 01:36:49.842 --> 01:36:51.953 materials for the record , subject to 01:36:51.953 --> 01:36:54.231 length limitations . Without objection . 01:36:54.231 --> 01:36:55.259 The subcommittee stands adjourned .