1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,953 Life panel . Today's hearing is an 2 00:00:01,953 --> 00:00:04,639 update on unaccompanied housing and 3 00:00:04,650 --> 00:00:06,817 we're gonna focus on that in the first 4 00:00:06,817 --> 00:00:08,817 set of panel . And then we're gonna 5 00:00:08,817 --> 00:00:10,761 talk more about military housing , 6 00:00:10,761 --> 00:00:12,872 private privatization initiative with 7 00:00:12,872 --> 00:00:15,039 our second panel . I want to thank our 8 00:00:15,039 --> 00:00:14,840 witnesses for being with us today . I 9 00:00:14,850 --> 00:00:16,517 hope this hearing provides an 10 00:00:16,517 --> 00:00:18,628 opportunity for our members to have a 11 00:00:18,628 --> 00:00:22,329 productive to their questions . Today , 12 00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:24,284 we are addressing an issue that is 13 00:00:24,284 --> 00:00:26,284 critical to the quality of life for 14 00:00:26,284 --> 00:00:28,340 service members and their families , 15 00:00:28,340 --> 00:00:30,562 the state of military housing . This is 16 00:00:30,562 --> 00:00:32,673 an issue that goes beyond party lines 17 00:00:32,673 --> 00:00:32,470 and demands our attention and action . 18 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,991 Our men and women in uniform have put 19 00:00:34,991 --> 00:00:37,102 their life on the line to protect our 20 00:00:37,102 --> 00:00:39,269 freedom . They and their families make 21 00:00:39,269 --> 00:00:39,150 countless sacrifices for our nation . 22 00:00:39,470 --> 00:00:41,581 We owe to these , they have access to 23 00:00:41,581 --> 00:00:43,470 safe , comfortable and affordable 24 00:00:43,470 --> 00:00:45,581 housing . Unfortunately , the reality 25 00:00:45,581 --> 00:00:47,830 of military housing is often far from 26 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,007 that and that is our focus for today . 27 00:00:50,700 --> 00:00:52,200 Last week , the government 28 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,089 Accountability Office published a 29 00:00:54,089 --> 00:00:56,311 report detailing deplorable and frankly 30 00:00:56,311 --> 00:00:57,978 inexcusable conditions of our 31 00:00:57,978 --> 00:00:59,811 unaccompanied housing for junior 32 00:00:59,811 --> 00:01:02,639 service members , sewage overflow water 33 00:01:02,650 --> 00:01:05,370 quality issues , rodent infestations , 34 00:01:05,379 --> 00:01:08,650 mold , broken air conditioned units and 35 00:01:08,660 --> 00:01:10,690 sweltering heat and others all have 36 00:01:10,699 --> 00:01:12,532 been found in these facilities , 37 00:01:12,779 --> 00:01:14,890 facilities that service members are , 38 00:01:14,890 --> 00:01:17,260 are expected to require and require to 39 00:01:17,269 --> 00:01:19,830 live in . I just wanna say I was a base 40 00:01:19,839 --> 00:01:22,809 commander at Ramstein and at off air 41 00:01:22,819 --> 00:01:25,319 force base , if I would have had these 42 00:01:25,330 --> 00:01:27,441 conditions in any of our barracks , I 43 00:01:27,441 --> 00:01:29,330 would have got fired . One of the 44 00:01:29,330 --> 00:01:31,330 things that we want to know today , 45 00:01:31,330 --> 00:01:33,330 where is the accountability at with 46 00:01:33,330 --> 00:01:35,497 these barracks ? Has anybody been held 47 00:01:35,497 --> 00:01:37,663 accountable ? And what are we gonna do 48 00:01:37,663 --> 00:01:39,774 to , what are we gonna do to get this 49 00:01:39,774 --> 00:01:42,959 right and get it fixed ? I don't recall 50 00:01:42,970 --> 00:01:45,081 the standards being this way . When I 51 00:01:45,081 --> 00:01:46,940 got out in 2014 , something has 52 00:01:46,949 --> 00:01:49,116 happened and we need to put our finger 53 00:01:49,116 --> 00:01:51,610 on it and get it fixed so we cannot 54 00:01:51,620 --> 00:01:54,209 allow this situation to persist . It is 55 00:01:54,220 --> 00:01:56,053 an issue not only of justice and 56 00:01:56,053 --> 00:01:58,164 dignity but also military readiness . 57 00:01:58,164 --> 00:01:59,776 When our service members are 58 00:01:59,776 --> 00:02:01,664 preoccupied with their health and 59 00:02:01,664 --> 00:02:03,664 safety , they cannot focus on their 60 00:02:03,664 --> 00:02:05,609 mission . A few years ago , we saw 61 00:02:05,609 --> 00:02:07,776 similar conditions in private family , 62 00:02:07,776 --> 00:02:09,831 military housing families dealt with 63 00:02:09,831 --> 00:02:09,559 long delays and repair and maintenance 64 00:02:09,570 --> 00:02:11,570 requests and requests that were not 65 00:02:11,570 --> 00:02:13,570 responded to at all . Children were 66 00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:15,681 getting sick from mold and lead paint 67 00:02:15,681 --> 00:02:17,626 and members feared retribution for 68 00:02:17,626 --> 00:02:19,848 private companies if they complained to 69 00:02:19,848 --> 00:02:22,070 their command . This situation required 70 00:02:22,070 --> 00:02:24,237 extensive congressional action to make 71 00:02:24,237 --> 00:02:26,403 improvements to these conditions . The 72 00:02:26,403 --> 00:02:28,626 department and individual services have 73 00:02:28,626 --> 00:02:30,792 continued to neglect the oversight and 74 00:02:30,792 --> 00:02:32,903 management . These projects require , 75 00:02:32,903 --> 00:02:35,126 they have failed to provide the housing 76 00:02:35,126 --> 00:02:37,348 that service members need and deserve . 77 00:02:37,348 --> 00:02:39,570 I believe what we're going to hear next 78 00:02:39,570 --> 00:02:41,681 will prove this . This matter must be 79 00:02:41,681 --> 00:02:41,509 addressed . We must demand greater 80 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,631 accountability from the Department of 81 00:02:43,631 --> 00:02:45,742 Defense . Today , we'll hear from two 82 00:02:45,742 --> 00:02:47,853 panels . The first panel is an expert 83 00:02:47,853 --> 00:02:50,020 from Gao that will show the results of 84 00:02:50,020 --> 00:02:52,242 a recent audit of unaccompanied housing 85 00:02:52,242 --> 00:02:52,190 facilities including issues related to 86 00:02:52,199 --> 00:02:54,649 funding and oversight . In the second 87 00:02:54,660 --> 00:02:56,882 panel , we will hear from dod officials 88 00:02:56,882 --> 00:02:58,993 responsible for housing policy . They 89 00:02:58,993 --> 00:03:00,993 will describe the current status of 90 00:03:00,993 --> 00:03:00,619 privatized military housing . 91 00:03:00,949 --> 00:03:03,005 Additionally , they will address the 92 00:03:03,005 --> 00:03:05,227 implementation of the statue of orderly 93 00:03:05,227 --> 00:03:07,171 required provisions , ensuring the 94 00:03:07,171 --> 00:03:09,282 quality of this housing . I would now 95 00:03:09,282 --> 00:03:11,393 like to welcome our witnesses for the 96 00:03:11,393 --> 00:03:13,616 first panel , we have Elizabeth Field . 97 00:03:13,616 --> 00:03:15,505 She's a director of Gao S Defense 98 00:03:15,505 --> 00:03:17,449 Capabilities and management team . 99 00:03:17,449 --> 00:03:19,671 Before doing so , I want to yield to MS 100 00:03:19,671 --> 00:03:21,505 Escobar who's filling in for our 101 00:03:21,505 --> 00:03:23,727 ranking member . But before I do , this 102 00:03:23,727 --> 00:03:25,949 is so important just to go off script a 103 00:03:25,949 --> 00:03:28,060 little bit . We have a recruiting and 104 00:03:28,060 --> 00:03:30,282 retention problem in our military right 105 00:03:30,282 --> 00:03:32,393 now . Quality of life is not the only 106 00:03:32,393 --> 00:03:34,560 factor , there are other factors . The 107 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,782 quality of life is one when you talk to 108 00:03:36,782 --> 00:03:38,727 parents with an 18 year old son or 109 00:03:38,727 --> 00:03:40,893 daughter and you ask her , do you want 110 00:03:40,893 --> 00:03:42,893 their son or daughter to serve when 111 00:03:42,893 --> 00:03:45,005 they hear stuff like these barracks ? 112 00:03:45,005 --> 00:03:47,171 It inhibits folks from wanting their , 113 00:03:47,171 --> 00:03:49,338 their 18 year old sons or daughters to 114 00:03:49,338 --> 00:03:51,449 join . If you are an eight year old , 115 00:03:51,449 --> 00:03:53,560 you see this , it's an inhibitor . We 116 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,727 got to get this right . And what did I 117 00:03:55,727 --> 00:03:57,782 yield to ? MS Escobar ? Thank you so 118 00:03:57,782 --> 00:03:59,727 much , Mr Chairman and I'd like to 119 00:03:59,727 --> 00:04:01,893 thank you for your focus on this issue 120 00:04:01,893 --> 00:04:04,005 at the hearing today . Uh And I would 121 00:04:04,005 --> 00:04:05,990 like to associate myself with your 122 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,750 remarks on just how unacceptable the 123 00:04:09,759 --> 00:04:13,169 current situation remains . We know 124 00:04:13,220 --> 00:04:16,010 that for especially for young families , 125 00:04:16,019 --> 00:04:18,618 this is a critical component of their 126 00:04:18,628 --> 00:04:21,188 quality of life . We also know that 127 00:04:21,199 --> 00:04:23,588 that part of our recruitment challenge 128 00:04:23,598 --> 00:04:25,669 is the fact that it's not just the 129 00:04:25,678 --> 00:04:27,567 service member who serves but the 130 00:04:27,567 --> 00:04:30,308 entire family . And so we have to make 131 00:04:30,319 --> 00:04:32,169 sure that we are upholding our 132 00:04:32,178 --> 00:04:35,079 commitment to the highest potential 133 00:04:35,088 --> 00:04:38,348 standard of quality of life . And that 134 00:04:38,359 --> 00:04:40,789 this , this discussion is a critical 135 00:04:40,799 --> 00:04:43,440 component to that I have the incredible 136 00:04:43,450 --> 00:04:45,880 privilege of serving on behalf of my 137 00:04:45,890 --> 00:04:49,010 community , El Paso Texas home to Fort 138 00:04:49,019 --> 00:04:52,799 Bliss , a critical key amazing 139 00:04:52,809 --> 00:04:55,790 asset for our national defense and I 140 00:04:55,799 --> 00:04:59,350 have had some of the same concerns for 141 00:04:59,359 --> 00:05:02,619 some time now , unfortunately , I was 142 00:05:02,630 --> 00:05:05,959 not surprised by the GAO report issued 143 00:05:05,970 --> 00:05:09,410 this month on military housing . And so 144 00:05:09,420 --> 00:05:12,359 our responsiveness is going to be key 145 00:05:12,369 --> 00:05:14,647 to , to continuing to see improvements . 146 00:05:14,647 --> 00:05:17,600 And I know that there are many not just 147 00:05:17,790 --> 00:05:20,010 here on this day , it's not just in 148 00:05:20,019 --> 00:05:22,241 Congress , not just active duty service 149 00:05:22,241 --> 00:05:24,408 members , but I know there are members 150 00:05:24,408 --> 00:05:26,408 of the administration who also find 151 00:05:26,408 --> 00:05:28,630 this uh absolutely unacceptable . And I 152 00:05:28,630 --> 00:05:30,797 look forward to a path forward and I'm 153 00:05:30,797 --> 00:05:32,852 eager to get into these two panels . 154 00:05:32,852 --> 00:05:35,186 Thank you , Mr Chairman . I yelled back . 155 00:05:35,186 --> 00:05:37,297 Thank you . Uh Miss Escobar M Field , 156 00:05:37,297 --> 00:05:39,463 you'll have the opportunity to present 157 00:05:39,463 --> 00:05:41,463 your testimony and each member will 158 00:05:41,463 --> 00:05:41,410 have an opportunity to question you for 159 00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:43,309 about five minutes . Your written 160 00:05:43,309 --> 00:05:45,364 comments and statements will be made 161 00:05:45,364 --> 00:05:47,476 part of the hearing record . And with 162 00:05:47,476 --> 00:05:49,698 that MS yield , uh you may uh make your 163 00:05:49,698 --> 00:05:51,476 opening statement . Thank you , 164 00:05:51,476 --> 00:05:53,642 Chairman Bacon , congresswoman Escobar 165 00:05:53,642 --> 00:05:55,587 and members of the panel . It's an 166 00:05:55,587 --> 00:05:57,809 honor to be here today . Since March of 167 00:05:57,809 --> 00:05:59,820 2018 , Gao has made more than 80 168 00:05:59,829 --> 00:06:01,551 recommendations to the defense 169 00:06:01,551 --> 00:06:03,799 department to improve both privatized 170 00:06:03,809 --> 00:06:06,190 family housing and government owned 171 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,600 unaccompanied housing . The most recent 172 00:06:08,609 --> 00:06:10,665 of these recommendations come from a 173 00:06:10,665 --> 00:06:12,720 report that we issued just last week 174 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,331 focusing on the condition of 175 00:06:14,331 --> 00:06:16,276 unaccompanied housing which I will 176 00:06:16,276 --> 00:06:18,220 refer to as barracks as you know , 177 00:06:18,220 --> 00:06:20,442 military barracks are used to house our 178 00:06:20,442 --> 00:06:22,739 most junior enlisted service members , 179 00:06:22,750 --> 00:06:24,779 many of them teenagers fresh out of 180 00:06:24,790 --> 00:06:27,000 high school . Unfortunately , because 181 00:06:27,010 --> 00:06:29,232 of this , we found that many , although 182 00:06:29,232 --> 00:06:31,130 not all department officials have 183 00:06:31,140 --> 00:06:33,500 chosen not to obtain their input about 184 00:06:33,510 --> 00:06:35,880 the quality of their housing according 185 00:06:35,890 --> 00:06:38,001 to these officials , this demographic 186 00:06:38,001 --> 00:06:40,100 group is so unreliable in terms of 187 00:06:40,109 --> 00:06:42,829 completing surveys or replying to email 188 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,895 or telephone inquiries that it isn't 189 00:06:44,895 --> 00:06:47,117 worth trying to solicit their opinion . 190 00:06:47,140 --> 00:06:48,973 Other officials told us that the 191 00:06:48,973 --> 00:06:50,918 condition of barracks is not a key 192 00:06:50,918 --> 00:06:52,799 factor in military retention and 193 00:06:52,809 --> 00:06:54,976 therefore doesn't merit inclusion as a 194 00:06:54,976 --> 00:06:57,510 topic in already lengthy surveys . What 195 00:06:57,519 --> 00:06:59,463 we learned however , is that these 196 00:06:59,463 --> 00:07:01,790 service members have a lot to say and 197 00:07:01,799 --> 00:07:04,500 are eager for someone to listen . Over 198 00:07:04,510 --> 00:07:06,690 the course of five months , we visited 199 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:09,269 10 military installations where we held 200 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,446 discussion groups with service members 201 00:07:11,446 --> 00:07:13,501 living in the barracks . We promised 202 00:07:13,501 --> 00:07:15,668 them that their input mattered that we 203 00:07:15,668 --> 00:07:17,501 needed to hear from them because 204 00:07:17,501 --> 00:07:19,668 Congress wanted to hear from them . So 205 00:07:19,668 --> 00:07:21,890 today , because this panel is all about 206 00:07:21,890 --> 00:07:24,112 quality of life . I would like to honor 207 00:07:24,112 --> 00:07:26,279 that commitment to them and share what 208 00:07:26,279 --> 00:07:28,446 we heard and saw about quality of life 209 00:07:28,446 --> 00:07:30,390 in the barracks . As I recount our 210 00:07:30,390 --> 00:07:32,612 discussions , I invite you to turn your 211 00:07:32,612 --> 00:07:34,835 attention to the slides projected which 212 00:07:34,835 --> 00:07:36,668 document some of the substandard 213 00:07:36,668 --> 00:07:38,668 conditions . We observed one of the 214 00:07:38,668 --> 00:07:40,668 most common complaints we heard was 215 00:07:40,668 --> 00:07:42,890 about mold . There was a leak and black 216 00:07:42,890 --> 00:07:45,057 mold in the shower . One resident told 217 00:07:45,057 --> 00:07:47,168 us and maintenance still won't fix it 218 00:07:47,168 --> 00:07:49,168 no matter how often it's reported . 219 00:07:49,168 --> 00:07:51,168 Another resident said , molding the 220 00:07:51,168 --> 00:07:53,489 barracks makes you feel expendable like 221 00:07:53,500 --> 00:07:56,000 we don't matter . A number of the 222 00:07:56,010 --> 00:07:58,540 facilities we visited had broken H VAC 223 00:07:58,549 --> 00:08:01,769 systems . One marine said I often wake 224 00:08:01,779 --> 00:08:03,950 up at night , sweating from the heat , 225 00:08:03,959 --> 00:08:06,126 itching from bed bugs and feeling like 226 00:08:06,126 --> 00:08:08,309 I am suffocating and this from an 227 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,910 airman , it can be really challenging 228 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,130 to come in from a day of working where 229 00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:15,290 you may be exposed to the cold or to 230 00:08:15,299 --> 00:08:17,760 the heat all day and then get no relief 231 00:08:17,769 --> 00:08:19,880 from the temperatures when you return 232 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,991 to your room . Although dod standards 233 00:08:21,991 --> 00:08:23,936 call for barracks rooms to have at 234 00:08:23,936 --> 00:08:25,936 least a kitchenette , we found that 235 00:08:25,936 --> 00:08:28,102 none of the military service standards 236 00:08:28,102 --> 00:08:29,880 reflects that requirement . Not 237 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:31,769 surprisingly . Therefore , we saw 238 00:08:31,769 --> 00:08:33,936 barracks where residents had access to 239 00:08:33,936 --> 00:08:36,158 only a small fridge and microwave or in 240 00:08:36,158 --> 00:08:38,158 one case , only a small microwave . 241 00:08:38,158 --> 00:08:40,269 They told us it made it hard for them 242 00:08:40,269 --> 00:08:42,547 to follow a healthy diet . For example , 243 00:08:42,547 --> 00:08:44,713 one resident told us it is challenging 244 00:08:44,713 --> 00:08:47,047 to meet physical readiness requirements . 245 00:08:47,047 --> 00:08:46,840 When the only option for meals are 246 00:08:46,849 --> 00:08:49,016 frozen food that can be microwaved and 247 00:08:49,016 --> 00:08:51,200 fast food . Perhaps some of the most 248 00:08:51,210 --> 00:08:53,432 troubling statements we heard had to do 249 00:08:53,432 --> 00:08:55,543 with safety . It is difficult to feel 250 00:08:55,543 --> 00:08:57,710 safe in the barracks . One sailor told 251 00:08:57,710 --> 00:08:59,766 us the doors don't work . Anyone can 252 00:08:59,766 --> 00:09:01,929 access our rooms recounted a marine 253 00:09:02,099 --> 00:09:04,377 sexual assault happens in the barracks . 254 00:09:04,377 --> 00:09:06,321 More than people think one service 255 00:09:06,321 --> 00:09:08,340 member said in every one of our 256 00:09:08,349 --> 00:09:10,571 discussion groups , the topic of mental 257 00:09:10,571 --> 00:09:12,710 health came up . These are just a few 258 00:09:12,719 --> 00:09:14,539 of the statements we heard it's 259 00:09:14,549 --> 00:09:16,809 depressing to come home to a dark box . 260 00:09:16,820 --> 00:09:19,510 After work , I feel cramped and like 261 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,409 the walls are closing in and that 262 00:09:21,409 --> 00:09:23,780 causes me anxiety and stress . The 263 00:09:23,789 --> 00:09:25,956 barracks feel like living in a rundown 264 00:09:25,956 --> 00:09:29,119 motel or in a prison . These problems 265 00:09:29,130 --> 00:09:31,241 are unfortunately not dissimilar from 266 00:09:31,241 --> 00:09:32,908 the ones we have observed and 267 00:09:32,908 --> 00:09:35,241 documented in privatized family housing . 268 00:09:35,241 --> 00:09:37,297 The only real difference is that the 269 00:09:37,297 --> 00:09:39,130 Defense department has felt more 270 00:09:39,130 --> 00:09:41,130 pressure in recent years to fix the 271 00:09:41,130 --> 00:09:43,297 problems in family housing than it has 272 00:09:43,297 --> 00:09:45,408 to fix the problems with barracks . I 273 00:09:45,408 --> 00:09:47,574 appreciate that today's hearing should 274 00:09:47,574 --> 00:09:49,630 help rectify that . History tells us 275 00:09:49,630 --> 00:09:51,741 though , that ensuring better housing 276 00:09:51,741 --> 00:09:53,630 for our service members and their 277 00:09:53,630 --> 00:09:55,797 families will take sustained oversight 278 00:09:55,797 --> 00:09:57,789 and attention . 20 years ago , Gao 279 00:09:57,799 --> 00:10:00,021 reported many similar problems with the 280 00:10:00,021 --> 00:10:02,989 condition of barracks 10 years ago . In 281 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,299 a report to Congress dod lauded the 282 00:10:05,309 --> 00:10:07,570 progress it had made in modernizing its 283 00:10:07,580 --> 00:10:09,960 barracks program . It stated that by 284 00:10:09,969 --> 00:10:11,809 increasing military construction 285 00:10:11,820 --> 00:10:14,169 funding , introducing new designs , 286 00:10:14,179 --> 00:10:16,401 offering more privacy and amenities and 287 00:10:16,401 --> 00:10:18,512 directing more maintenance funding to 288 00:10:18,512 --> 00:10:20,179 barracks . It had brought the 289 00:10:20,179 --> 00:10:21,957 modernization program closer to 290 00:10:21,957 --> 00:10:23,790 completion . The department also 291 00:10:23,790 --> 00:10:25,901 promised that military barracks would 292 00:10:25,901 --> 00:10:28,068 be adequately maintained over the long 293 00:10:28,068 --> 00:10:30,290 term . Obviously , that didn't happen . 294 00:10:30,290 --> 00:10:32,457 We believe that the recommendations in 295 00:10:32,457 --> 00:10:34,512 our report if fully implemented will 296 00:10:34,512 --> 00:10:36,679 put the department on a better footing 297 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,901 to address this substantial challenge , 298 00:10:38,901 --> 00:10:41,012 but it will take years to reverse the 299 00:10:41,012 --> 00:10:43,012 chronic neglect and underfunding we 300 00:10:43,012 --> 00:10:45,123 uncovered . I appreciate this panel's 301 00:10:45,123 --> 00:10:47,235 focus on the problem and hope that it 302 00:10:47,235 --> 00:10:49,401 is the beginning of many conversations 303 00:10:49,401 --> 00:10:51,623 about how the military can do better by 304 00:10:51,623 --> 00:10:53,735 its most junior active duty members . 305 00:10:53,735 --> 00:10:55,790 Thank you again for this opportunity 306 00:10:55,790 --> 00:10:55,619 and I look forward to your questions . 307 00:10:56,010 --> 00:10:58,121 Thank you , Miss Field . When you see 308 00:10:58,121 --> 00:11:00,066 these pictures , it's disgusting . 309 00:11:00,066 --> 00:11:03,929 Unacceptable cannot go on . And you're 310 00:11:04,750 --> 00:11:07,809 during your time and during your G G's 311 00:11:07,820 --> 00:11:09,931 time investigating , this was there a 312 00:11:09,931 --> 00:11:12,380 sense of accountability in the services , 313 00:11:12,390 --> 00:11:14,501 whether it's at the Pentagon level or 314 00:11:14,501 --> 00:11:16,446 the installation commanders ? Does 315 00:11:16,446 --> 00:11:18,279 anybody take ownership of this ? 316 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,349 Excuse me ? Uh I think that changed to 317 00:11:23,359 --> 00:11:25,581 a certain extent over the course of our 318 00:11:25,581 --> 00:11:28,080 audit uh as we began to , to do more 319 00:11:28,090 --> 00:11:30,257 interviews and site visits And I think 320 00:11:30,257 --> 00:11:32,257 people knew Gao was there and maybe 321 00:11:32,257 --> 00:11:34,479 they should start paying attention . Um 322 00:11:34,479 --> 00:11:36,646 But , but I will tell you what was one 323 00:11:36,646 --> 00:11:38,423 of the most troubling things we 324 00:11:38,423 --> 00:11:40,590 observed during our audit was that the 325 00:11:40,590 --> 00:11:42,646 office of the Secretary of Defense , 326 00:11:42,646 --> 00:11:44,479 which is supposed to oversee the 327 00:11:44,479 --> 00:11:46,534 barracks programs , give guidance to 328 00:11:46,534 --> 00:11:48,646 the military services very much had a 329 00:11:48,646 --> 00:11:50,979 hands off approach to this , this topic . 330 00:11:50,979 --> 00:11:53,201 When we asked them some basic questions 331 00:11:53,201 --> 00:11:52,559 at the beginning of our audit about how 332 00:11:52,570 --> 00:11:54,820 many barracks there were , whether they 333 00:11:54,830 --> 00:11:57,179 were uh not complying with standards , 334 00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:59,301 how many service members live there ? 335 00:11:59,301 --> 00:12:01,468 They couldn't tell us . I think that's 336 00:12:01,468 --> 00:12:03,468 changing . Uh But you're absolutely 337 00:12:03,468 --> 00:12:05,579 right that it has been an issue . Was 338 00:12:05,579 --> 00:12:05,520 there at least a sense at the 339 00:12:05,530 --> 00:12:07,641 installation level that the commander 340 00:12:07,641 --> 00:12:09,863 of that installation had ownership of , 341 00:12:09,863 --> 00:12:13,200 of this or was it not my problem ? I , 342 00:12:13,210 --> 00:12:15,210 I think at the installation level , 343 00:12:15,210 --> 00:12:17,488 there was more of a sense of ownership . 344 00:12:17,488 --> 00:12:19,543 We spoke to a number of installation 345 00:12:19,543 --> 00:12:21,654 commanders who frankly told , told me 346 00:12:21,654 --> 00:12:23,766 told us that they felt sick about the 347 00:12:23,766 --> 00:12:25,877 conditions that their junior enlisted 348 00:12:25,877 --> 00:12:28,099 service members were living in . They , 349 00:12:28,099 --> 00:12:30,099 they often recounted facing sort of 350 00:12:30,099 --> 00:12:32,321 impossible choices between where to put 351 00:12:32,321 --> 00:12:34,210 limited funding . So yes , at the 352 00:12:34,210 --> 00:12:36,377 installation level , I think there was 353 00:12:36,377 --> 00:12:38,266 more accountability . So how have 354 00:12:38,266 --> 00:12:40,266 conditions in unaccompanied housing 355 00:12:40,266 --> 00:12:42,780 been able to deteriorate over time and 356 00:12:42,789 --> 00:12:44,956 what has prevented the department from 357 00:12:44,956 --> 00:12:46,845 paying adequate attention to this 358 00:12:46,845 --> 00:12:49,067 housing and making improvements ? And I 359 00:12:49,067 --> 00:12:51,289 note that for every presidential budget 360 00:12:51,289 --> 00:12:53,830 on dod Congress has put more money in . 361 00:12:54,119 --> 00:12:57,729 So I don't see how we can blame it on 362 00:12:57,739 --> 00:13:00,380 funds . We have actually plussed up dod 363 00:13:00,390 --> 00:13:02,840 s presidential request . So I'm , I'm 364 00:13:02,849 --> 00:13:05,130 curious what is the story ? How did 365 00:13:05,140 --> 00:13:07,307 this happen ? Well , you're right that 366 00:13:07,307 --> 00:13:09,140 Congress has in many cases given 367 00:13:09,140 --> 00:13:11,029 funding to the services when they 368 00:13:11,029 --> 00:13:13,307 haven't asked for funding for barracks . 369 00:13:13,307 --> 00:13:15,473 It might not have been the entirety of 370 00:13:15,473 --> 00:13:17,584 what they needed though . And that is 371 00:13:17,584 --> 00:13:19,640 because we found in our audit that a 372 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,140 lot of times , even though 373 00:13:21,140 --> 00:13:23,196 installations know they need funding 374 00:13:23,196 --> 00:13:25,418 for constructing new barracks , uh they 375 00:13:25,418 --> 00:13:27,554 don't feel uh comfortable requesting 376 00:13:27,565 --> 00:13:29,787 that funding because they know it won't 377 00:13:29,787 --> 00:13:31,454 compete well against other uh 378 00:13:31,454 --> 00:13:33,509 requirements . And so they don't put 379 00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:35,621 those uh requests forward . It really 380 00:13:35,621 --> 00:13:37,565 is a matter though of , of chronic 381 00:13:37,565 --> 00:13:39,732 underfunding at the dod level , not on 382 00:13:39,732 --> 00:13:41,974 Congress's part . So what what happens 383 00:13:41,984 --> 00:13:45,270 is uh facilities need to be maintained 384 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,229 up , up kept as any facility does . But 385 00:13:48,239 --> 00:13:50,017 the department we have reported 386 00:13:50,017 --> 00:13:52,469 previously tends to only fund to about 387 00:13:52,479 --> 00:13:54,669 80% of sustainment needs . And the 388 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,900 facilities that most often lose out are 389 00:13:57,909 --> 00:14:00,460 things like barracks . Eventually , if 390 00:14:00,469 --> 00:14:02,469 you don't fund sustainment enough , 391 00:14:02,469 --> 00:14:04,636 you're gonna need to build an entirely 392 00:14:04,636 --> 00:14:06,858 new barracks , which means you need new 393 00:14:06,858 --> 00:14:09,080 mil military construction funding . And 394 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,080 eventually , if you don't do that , 395 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:10,950 you're gonna have to spend money on 396 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,904 basic allowance for housing to get 397 00:14:12,904 --> 00:14:15,071 service members to live in the economy 398 00:14:15,071 --> 00:14:17,293 because you just can't find a place for 399 00:14:17,293 --> 00:14:19,127 them to live . So I think it's a 400 00:14:19,127 --> 00:14:18,869 combination of that chronic 401 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,880 underfunding and neglect , but also 402 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,047 that lack of accountability . And this 403 00:14:23,047 --> 00:14:25,102 is just the last point I'll make . I 404 00:14:25,102 --> 00:14:25,059 know I'm out of time , but I , I think 405 00:14:25,070 --> 00:14:27,126 it's important because it strikes to 406 00:14:27,126 --> 00:14:29,181 the heart of your question . I think 407 00:14:29,181 --> 00:14:32,280 there has been a cultural 408 00:14:32,289 --> 00:14:34,950 perspective within the department that , 409 00:14:35,109 --> 00:14:37,220 you know , part of , part of being in 410 00:14:37,220 --> 00:14:39,331 the military is toughing it out and , 411 00:14:39,331 --> 00:14:41,553 you know , this , this is just going to 412 00:14:41,553 --> 00:14:43,665 get them ready for the military . And 413 00:14:43,665 --> 00:14:43,599 unfortunately , I think that has , that 414 00:14:43,609 --> 00:14:45,809 has gotten us in part to where we are 415 00:14:45,820 --> 00:14:47,890 today . So , what I'm hearing to a 416 00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:50,090 degree is when you buy a new car , if 417 00:14:50,099 --> 00:14:52,266 you maintain it , do the oil changes , 418 00:14:53,049 --> 00:14:55,105 spending smaller amounts of money to 419 00:14:55,105 --> 00:14:56,993 maintain , you keep the car for a 420 00:14:56,993 --> 00:14:59,105 longer time . If you don't , you have 421 00:14:59,105 --> 00:15:01,327 to pay a lot more money to replace it . 422 00:15:01,327 --> 00:15:03,549 And what I'm hearing is we're not doing 423 00:15:03,549 --> 00:15:03,299 the normal maintenance to maintain 424 00:15:03,309 --> 00:15:05,365 these and then we're having to put a 425 00:15:05,365 --> 00:15:07,309 lot more money and it's penny wise 426 00:15:07,309 --> 00:15:09,476 pound foolish is what I'm hearing . Am 427 00:15:09,476 --> 00:15:11,698 I hearing you ? Right . Yeah , you said 428 00:15:11,698 --> 00:15:11,059 it better than I did . Uh , absolutely . 429 00:15:11,109 --> 00:15:13,220 That's right . I'm a farm kid . So we 430 00:15:13,220 --> 00:15:16,820 do . So , if you had one or two key 431 00:15:16,830 --> 00:15:19,108 recommendations right now to make this , 432 00:15:19,108 --> 00:15:21,052 but what , what do you recommend ? 433 00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:26,369 So I think in a , in a time of limited 434 00:15:26,380 --> 00:15:28,491 resources , what the department needs 435 00:15:28,491 --> 00:15:32,359 to do is gather the information , it 436 00:15:32,369 --> 00:15:34,849 needs to make more strategic decisions 437 00:15:34,859 --> 00:15:37,026 about where to put limited resources . 438 00:15:37,026 --> 00:15:39,510 That means knowing what condition the 439 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,687 barracks are in . They don't know that 440 00:15:41,687 --> 00:15:43,909 right now . Uh knowing how much they're 441 00:15:43,909 --> 00:15:46,131 spending on things like basic allowance 442 00:15:46,131 --> 00:15:48,020 for housing so they can do a more 443 00:15:48,020 --> 00:15:50,020 informed cost benefit analysis . Uh 444 00:15:50,119 --> 00:15:52,299 They , it means uh reevaluating 445 00:15:52,309 --> 00:15:54,700 policies about who is required to live 446 00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:56,543 in the barracks and how you make 447 00:15:56,543 --> 00:15:59,140 exceptions to those policies . Uh It 448 00:15:59,150 --> 00:16:01,179 means reconsidering the barracks 449 00:16:01,190 --> 00:16:03,357 manager position . So there's a lot uh 450 00:16:03,357 --> 00:16:05,301 our hope is and this is one of our 451 00:16:05,301 --> 00:16:07,023 final recommendations that the 452 00:16:07,023 --> 00:16:09,190 department develop a joint strategy so 453 00:16:09,190 --> 00:16:11,412 the services can learn from one another 454 00:16:11,412 --> 00:16:13,523 so that standards can be put in place 455 00:16:13,523 --> 00:16:13,400 that are consistent to try to get 456 00:16:13,409 --> 00:16:15,242 behind this problem . But as you 457 00:16:15,242 --> 00:16:16,631 pointed out , we have 31 458 00:16:16,631 --> 00:16:18,798 recommendations . So there's , there's 459 00:16:18,798 --> 00:16:18,049 a lot the department needs to do . 460 00:16:18,059 --> 00:16:20,226 Thank you . Very much . Uh with that , 461 00:16:20,226 --> 00:16:22,380 I recognize uh Miss Escobar for five 462 00:16:22,390 --> 00:16:24,612 minutes . Thank you , Mr Chairman . And 463 00:16:24,612 --> 00:16:26,723 I , I'd like to thank you so much for 464 00:16:26,723 --> 00:16:28,669 your work . And I , I , the , the 465 00:16:28,679 --> 00:16:31,000 component of the impact on mental 466 00:16:31,010 --> 00:16:33,177 health is something that really struck 467 00:16:33,177 --> 00:16:35,880 me . And it made me recall a hearing 468 00:16:35,890 --> 00:16:37,723 that we had last Congress on the 469 00:16:37,723 --> 00:16:39,969 military personnel subcommittee about 470 00:16:39,979 --> 00:16:42,780 suicides , active duty member , suicide 471 00:16:42,789 --> 00:16:45,479 and veteran suicide . And I will never 472 00:16:45,489 --> 00:16:47,710 forget one of our experts . And I wish 473 00:16:47,719 --> 00:16:49,997 I could recall his name in this moment . 474 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,309 But a psychiatrist who said , you know , 475 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,542 you , you've got to think about this in 476 00:16:55,542 --> 00:16:58,159 a different way . Many of our service 477 00:16:58,169 --> 00:17:00,700 members , it's not that they come in 478 00:17:00,710 --> 00:17:02,940 suffering with chronic depression or , 479 00:17:02,950 --> 00:17:06,739 or , or , or even have had um suicide 480 00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:09,339 ideation before . But so much of this 481 00:17:09,349 --> 00:17:12,300 is rooted in environment . And he said 482 00:17:12,310 --> 00:17:14,489 your job , Congress is really to think 483 00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:16,989 about the environment and the impact it 484 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,310 has on mental health . And it was just 485 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,099 such a I think a profound realization 486 00:17:23,109 --> 00:17:26,150 for me in , in terms of not just the 487 00:17:26,180 --> 00:17:28,199 how much more significant our 488 00:17:28,209 --> 00:17:30,376 obligation is around environment , but 489 00:17:30,439 --> 00:17:33,849 the impact of chronic underfunding and 490 00:17:33,859 --> 00:17:36,260 these chronic issues uh can have on , 491 00:17:36,270 --> 00:17:38,800 on our service members . And as an 492 00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:41,900 example at Fort Bliss , we have 493 00:17:41,910 --> 00:17:45,839 some uh uh um transient 494 00:17:45,849 --> 00:17:49,079 barracks that honestly in comparison to 495 00:17:49,089 --> 00:17:52,560 what we saw , uh there's no comparison . 496 00:17:52,569 --> 00:17:55,699 However , the H VAC system was so 497 00:17:55,709 --> 00:17:58,979 outdated and in El Paso , we have , we 498 00:17:58,989 --> 00:18:01,890 struck a record this year of about 499 00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:04,859 three months of 100 plus degree 500 00:18:04,869 --> 00:18:08,000 temperatures which had never happened 501 00:18:08,010 --> 00:18:10,066 before in the history of our weather 502 00:18:10,066 --> 00:18:13,170 tracking and our transient barracks 503 00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:15,609 just could not sustain that even under 504 00:18:15,619 --> 00:18:18,369 the best of conditions . Um And as we 505 00:18:18,380 --> 00:18:20,739 kind of pulled the thread on that , we 506 00:18:20,750 --> 00:18:23,390 learned that it was a priority . It's 507 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,594 just in terms of the context of so many 508 00:18:26,604 --> 00:18:29,045 other priorities fell further down the 509 00:18:29,055 --> 00:18:30,905 list and we ended up making the 510 00:18:30,915 --> 00:18:32,984 decision to fund this out of our 511 00:18:32,994 --> 00:18:35,050 community project funding requests , 512 00:18:35,050 --> 00:18:37,744 which took a huge chunk of our funding 513 00:18:37,755 --> 00:18:39,977 for the community , but it was critical 514 00:18:39,977 --> 00:18:42,489 and important for the installation . My 515 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:44,667 question to you is and , and thank you 516 00:18:44,667 --> 00:18:46,900 for the recommendations . You aside 517 00:18:46,910 --> 00:18:49,021 from me , for example , as the member 518 00:18:49,021 --> 00:18:50,854 of Congress who was , you know , 519 00:18:50,854 --> 00:18:52,854 frequently going on site , visiting 520 00:18:52,854 --> 00:18:55,021 these barracks , you know , wanting to 521 00:18:55,021 --> 00:18:58,420 keep direct eyes on it , if we could do 522 00:18:58,430 --> 00:19:01,469 one thing , the most important thing in 523 00:19:01,479 --> 00:19:04,810 our oversight function . Um Would it be , 524 00:19:04,819 --> 00:19:07,910 for example , making easier surveys uh 525 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,310 that are online through an app ? Maybe 526 00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:13,030 you already do that or are there other 527 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,530 like is if is there one strategy for us 528 00:19:15,540 --> 00:19:19,189 to have better uh eyes on this ? 529 00:19:21,959 --> 00:19:23,959 So it's , it's hard to pick because 530 00:19:23,959 --> 00:19:25,959 there are so many problems . Uh And 531 00:19:25,959 --> 00:19:28,181 this , this might sound like a , a sort 532 00:19:28,181 --> 00:19:30,237 of a cop out but it , but it's not . 533 00:19:30,237 --> 00:19:32,810 And And that is , if , if we don't see 534 00:19:32,819 --> 00:19:35,530 the department implement all 31 of our 535 00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:37,869 recommendations in a meaningful and 536 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,991 timely manner , I would encourage you 537 00:19:39,991 --> 00:19:41,436 to consider putting those 538 00:19:41,436 --> 00:19:43,436 recommendations into legislation to 539 00:19:43,436 --> 00:19:45,839 make them statutorily required . That 540 00:19:45,849 --> 00:19:48,229 is something that has happened with uh 541 00:19:48,239 --> 00:19:50,699 privatized family housing . Uh And I 542 00:19:50,709 --> 00:19:52,709 think that has been effective . I I 543 00:19:52,709 --> 00:19:54,931 will note that the department concurred 544 00:19:54,931 --> 00:19:57,098 with most of our recommendations , but 545 00:19:57,098 --> 00:19:58,987 in some cases , they were partial 546 00:19:58,987 --> 00:20:00,820 concurrences and statements that 547 00:20:00,820 --> 00:20:00,479 they've already implemented the 548 00:20:00,489 --> 00:20:02,849 recommendations . And so they're good . 549 00:20:02,859 --> 00:20:06,280 Uh they're not good . So uh focusing on 550 00:20:06,290 --> 00:20:08,401 full and prompt implementation of our 551 00:20:08,401 --> 00:20:09,957 recommendations would be my 552 00:20:09,957 --> 00:20:11,957 recommendation . That's excellent . 553 00:20:11,957 --> 00:20:14,012 Thank you so much . Um And then I do 554 00:20:14,012 --> 00:20:15,901 wanna follow up on the surveys um 555 00:20:15,901 --> 00:20:19,020 because I it , it is a problem when uh 556 00:20:19,030 --> 00:20:22,859 the users of uh an asset don't 557 00:20:22,869 --> 00:20:24,939 participate in helping evaluate it . 558 00:20:24,949 --> 00:20:27,116 And we only have , we have less than a 559 00:20:27,116 --> 00:20:29,060 minute , what can we do to improve 560 00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:31,116 surveys because those are critical . 561 00:20:31,116 --> 00:20:33,227 Well , the importance is to survey in 562 00:20:33,227 --> 00:20:35,449 the first place . So we found that only 563 00:20:35,449 --> 00:20:37,671 two of the services were even bothering 564 00:20:37,671 --> 00:20:39,616 to survey barracks residents about 565 00:20:39,616 --> 00:20:41,671 their satisfaction with housing . So 566 00:20:41,671 --> 00:20:43,727 the remaining two need to do it . We 567 00:20:43,727 --> 00:20:45,949 also found that none of the services uh 568 00:20:45,949 --> 00:20:48,834 routinely uh inquire and , and ask 569 00:20:48,844 --> 00:20:51,795 barracks residents , uh how the 570 00:20:51,805 --> 00:20:53,805 barracks conditions impact their 571 00:20:53,814 --> 00:20:55,981 decision to re enlist , which is a dod 572 00:20:55,981 --> 00:20:57,370 requirement . So we have 573 00:20:57,370 --> 00:20:59,592 recommendations for them to do that . I 574 00:20:59,592 --> 00:21:01,647 will note that I think it's the Navy 575 00:21:01,647 --> 00:21:03,703 and Marine Corps . Is that correct ? 576 00:21:03,703 --> 00:21:05,925 Navy and Marine Corps that are the ones 577 00:21:05,925 --> 00:21:07,925 that uh are surveying and they have 578 00:21:07,925 --> 00:21:10,092 developed a number of interesting ways 579 00:21:10,092 --> 00:21:12,314 to , to try to get their responses up . 580 00:21:12,314 --> 00:21:14,370 So I would encourage you to , to ask 581 00:21:14,370 --> 00:21:14,349 the next panel , particularly the , the 582 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,410 Navy um representative how they've done 583 00:21:17,420 --> 00:21:19,698 that because they have been successful . 584 00:21:19,698 --> 00:21:21,864 Thank you so much , Mr Chairman . I be 585 00:21:22,180 --> 00:21:24,180 thank you . I'd like to recognize M 586 00:21:24,180 --> 00:21:26,458 Strickland from Washington . Thank you , 587 00:21:26,458 --> 00:21:28,569 Chairman um Miss Field . Thank you so 588 00:21:28,569 --> 00:21:30,291 much for your testimony . I do 589 00:21:30,291 --> 00:21:32,458 appreciate it . I represent joint base 590 00:21:32,458 --> 00:21:34,347 Lewis mccord , one of the largest 591 00:21:34,347 --> 00:21:34,040 military installations on the West 592 00:21:34,050 --> 00:21:36,161 Coast . The housing challenges in the 593 00:21:36,161 --> 00:21:38,272 barracks aren't as severe , but there 594 00:21:38,272 --> 00:21:40,439 are still challenges . We have so much 595 00:21:40,439 --> 00:21:42,383 of our conversation today has been 596 00:21:42,383 --> 00:21:45,329 about resources . So I don't know if 597 00:21:45,339 --> 00:21:47,506 you all have had this discussion , but 598 00:21:47,506 --> 00:21:49,672 if we were to bring our barracks up to 599 00:21:49,672 --> 00:21:52,260 what I call safe , habitable , 600 00:21:52,270 --> 00:21:54,530 something that doesn't look run down or 601 00:21:54,540 --> 00:21:56,651 un uninhabitable like we saw on these 602 00:21:56,651 --> 00:21:58,707 slides , what would the price tag be 603 00:21:58,707 --> 00:22:01,479 for that ? So that's a great question . 604 00:22:01,489 --> 00:22:03,322 It's one that we tried to answer 605 00:22:03,322 --> 00:22:05,433 through our audit . Uh bottom line is 606 00:22:05,433 --> 00:22:07,489 we don't know a total figure in part 607 00:22:07,489 --> 00:22:09,600 because uh the department itself does 608 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,767 not know how much it has been spending 609 00:22:11,767 --> 00:22:13,322 on barracks , whether it is 610 00:22:13,322 --> 00:22:15,211 particularly if it is maintenance 611 00:22:15,211 --> 00:22:17,211 funding . Um but I can give you one 612 00:22:17,211 --> 00:22:19,156 statistic that might be helpful in 613 00:22:19,156 --> 00:22:20,933 terms of , of um even getting a 614 00:22:20,933 --> 00:22:23,589 ballpark in , I think it was 2022 . The 615 00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:25,760 Air Force did submit a report to 616 00:22:25,770 --> 00:22:28,589 Congress in which it stated that it uh 617 00:22:28,599 --> 00:22:31,489 estimated it had about a $3.6 billion 618 00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:33,556 backlog just in terms of maintenance 619 00:22:33,556 --> 00:22:36,239 and upkeep of its existing barracks . 620 00:22:36,250 --> 00:22:39,140 Uh And it would cost about $1 billion 621 00:22:39,219 --> 00:22:41,589 dollars to uh newly construct some 622 00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:43,655 barracks that it needed . That's one 623 00:22:43,655 --> 00:22:45,932 service . It's not the biggest service . 624 00:22:45,932 --> 00:22:48,043 So that should give you some sense of 625 00:22:48,043 --> 00:22:47,619 scope here . Right ? No , and I 626 00:22:47,630 --> 00:22:49,852 appreciate that . And I know that , you 627 00:22:49,852 --> 00:22:51,852 know , in this committee , we often 628 00:22:51,852 --> 00:22:53,908 have con conversations about chronic 629 00:22:53,908 --> 00:22:55,797 underfunding , but until we put a 630 00:22:55,797 --> 00:22:57,908 dollar amount to it , it doesn't have 631 00:22:57,908 --> 00:23:00,130 context . And I say that because as you 632 00:23:00,130 --> 00:22:59,660 know , in Congress , there's often a 633 00:22:59,670 --> 00:23:01,392 push pull between , let's just 634 00:23:01,392 --> 00:23:03,949 arbitrarily cut defense by 10% . And 635 00:23:03,959 --> 00:23:06,015 then there are people who want it up 636 00:23:06,015 --> 00:23:08,015 more . And so I think that having a 637 00:23:08,015 --> 00:23:10,070 specific dollar amount to talk about 638 00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:12,126 what it's going to take to bring our 639 00:23:12,126 --> 00:23:14,348 barracks up to par . In addition to any 640 00:23:14,348 --> 00:23:16,570 new capital investments we need , gives 641 00:23:16,570 --> 00:23:18,737 us a more realistic place to start . I 642 00:23:18,737 --> 00:23:21,015 want to talk a bit about privatization . 643 00:23:21,015 --> 00:23:23,181 I know that with the family , military 644 00:23:23,181 --> 00:23:22,719 housing , it did not turn out to be the 645 00:23:22,729 --> 00:23:25,007 silver bullet that we thought it would . 646 00:23:25,007 --> 00:23:27,118 Private developers have to make money 647 00:23:27,118 --> 00:23:29,285 and I know that the business model for 648 00:23:29,285 --> 00:23:31,507 them isn't panning out . And so can you 649 00:23:31,507 --> 00:23:33,562 talk a bit about the challenges that 650 00:23:33,562 --> 00:23:35,785 the services have shared with you about 651 00:23:35,785 --> 00:23:38,007 initiatives to privatize the barracks ? 652 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:40,411 So , privatization is a , is a tricky 653 00:23:40,411 --> 00:23:42,467 question . Um Because I think one of 654 00:23:42,467 --> 00:23:44,411 the things we've learned from this 655 00:23:44,411 --> 00:23:46,578 audit is whether it's government owned 656 00:23:46,578 --> 00:23:48,411 or privatized , if you don't pay 657 00:23:48,411 --> 00:23:48,079 attention , if you don't fund , you're 658 00:23:48,089 --> 00:23:49,756 gonna end up with poor living 659 00:23:49,756 --> 00:23:51,589 conditions . Uh We did tour some 660 00:23:51,589 --> 00:23:53,700 privatized barracks , particularly in 661 00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:55,811 San Diego . And I have to be honest , 662 00:23:55,811 --> 00:23:57,922 they were in , in amazing condition . 663 00:23:57,922 --> 00:23:59,978 They were um you know , way ahead of 664 00:23:59,978 --> 00:24:02,089 some of the government owned barracks 665 00:24:02,089 --> 00:24:04,145 privatization though is not a silver 666 00:24:04,145 --> 00:24:03,579 bullet . And that is because 667 00:24:03,589 --> 00:24:05,756 particularly for the population living 668 00:24:05,756 --> 00:24:07,959 in the barracks , it's not as easy as 669 00:24:07,969 --> 00:24:10,390 it was for uh family housing , for 670 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,290 example , um omb scoring can be an 671 00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:16,060 issue um because it even essentially 672 00:24:16,069 --> 00:24:18,660 commits the government to a financial 673 00:24:18,670 --> 00:24:20,614 obligation . And so scoring can be 674 00:24:20,614 --> 00:24:22,726 problematic . Uh This is a population 675 00:24:22,726 --> 00:24:25,010 that moves around more often than 676 00:24:25,020 --> 00:24:27,439 families . And so uh if you have 677 00:24:27,449 --> 00:24:29,505 barracks that are , are , you know , 678 00:24:29,505 --> 00:24:31,727 privatized barracks that might be um uh 679 00:24:31,727 --> 00:24:34,510 left for , for months at a time . If 680 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,520 someone goes off on , on a training 681 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,576 mission , that's a problem . There's 682 00:24:38,576 --> 00:24:40,631 also issues related to unit cohesion 683 00:24:40,631 --> 00:24:42,631 and the fact that this is a younger 684 00:24:42,631 --> 00:24:44,909 population who are new to the military . 685 00:24:44,909 --> 00:24:46,964 So there are a lot of things to work 686 00:24:46,964 --> 00:24:49,020 out , legal , uh , legally related , 687 00:24:49,020 --> 00:24:51,020 funding related . It could actually 688 00:24:51,020 --> 00:24:53,242 cost more . Uh , it's a , it's a , um , 689 00:24:53,242 --> 00:24:55,242 it's a difficult , difficult policy 690 00:24:55,242 --> 00:24:57,520 question . All right . And I would say , 691 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,520 um , finally , can you talk about , 692 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,576 well , you talked a bit about this , 693 00:25:01,576 --> 00:25:03,742 where do you think it makes more sense 694 00:25:03,742 --> 00:25:05,853 to privatize the barracks versus just 695 00:25:05,853 --> 00:25:05,829 having them government run ? Because to 696 00:25:05,839 --> 00:25:07,839 your point , it's not necessarily a 697 00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,006 silver bullet , but I do think that we 698 00:25:10,006 --> 00:25:12,089 have to use every possible tool 699 00:25:12,099 --> 00:25:14,432 available to make sure we're doing this . 700 00:25:14,432 --> 00:25:16,488 And the comment I want to make was I 701 00:25:16,488 --> 00:25:18,599 think about how parents would feel if 702 00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:20,655 they went to a dormitory to drop off 703 00:25:20,655 --> 00:25:22,655 their kids at the university and if 704 00:25:22,655 --> 00:25:24,766 some of those pictures existed , hell 705 00:25:24,766 --> 00:25:26,877 would be raised . And so I wanna make 706 00:25:26,877 --> 00:25:26,270 sure that we are treating these 707 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,502 barracks for the people who are serving 708 00:25:28,502 --> 00:25:30,502 the same way we would treat parents 709 00:25:30,502 --> 00:25:30,390 dropping their kids off at college . 710 00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:32,716 Well , I agree as the mother of a 17 711 00:25:32,716 --> 00:25:34,604 year old who's one year away from 712 00:25:34,604 --> 00:25:36,771 college , you're absolutely right . Um 713 00:25:36,771 --> 00:25:38,993 I think your question was , where would 714 00:25:38,993 --> 00:25:40,827 privatization make sense ? Um 22 715 00:25:40,827 --> 00:25:42,938 thoughts on that one . The department 716 00:25:42,938 --> 00:25:45,049 is on the hook to deliver a report to 717 00:25:45,049 --> 00:25:47,160 Congress on overall joint approach to 718 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,271 privatization that was due in July of 719 00:25:49,271 --> 00:25:51,216 this year . The department has not 720 00:25:51,216 --> 00:25:53,216 delivered it . We could not get any 721 00:25:53,216 --> 00:25:55,327 clear information from the department 722 00:25:55,327 --> 00:25:54,479 on when it will be delivered . So I 723 00:25:54,489 --> 00:25:56,711 think if this committee committee could 724 00:25:56,711 --> 00:25:58,767 push the department to , to complete 725 00:25:58,767 --> 00:26:00,878 that report , that would be helpful . 726 00:26:00,878 --> 00:26:02,933 The other note I will make is that I 727 00:26:02,933 --> 00:26:05,156 think um some , some installations have 728 00:26:05,156 --> 00:26:06,711 been successful with , with 729 00:26:06,711 --> 00:26:08,878 privatization for some of the slightly 730 00:26:08,878 --> 00:26:11,045 more senior service members . So , you 731 00:26:11,045 --> 00:26:13,100 know , E five E six , maybe E four . 732 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:15,378 That might make more sense . All right . 733 00:26:15,378 --> 00:26:17,545 Thank you very much . And as we talked 734 00:26:17,545 --> 00:26:17,469 earlier , we have a challenge with 735 00:26:17,479 --> 00:26:19,535 recruiting . Word of mouth is very , 736 00:26:19,535 --> 00:26:21,535 very strong . And so if you want to 737 00:26:21,535 --> 00:26:23,646 address some of these quality of life 738 00:26:23,646 --> 00:26:25,868 issues , housing is a basic need and it 739 00:26:25,868 --> 00:26:27,868 cannot be substandard . But I think 740 00:26:27,868 --> 00:26:27,829 solving the problem means coming up 741 00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:29,783 with a dollar amount and not being 742 00:26:29,783 --> 00:26:31,783 afraid to say it's a lot of money . 743 00:26:31,783 --> 00:26:33,950 Thank you . I yield back . Thank you , 744 00:26:33,950 --> 00:26:36,430 Mr . I read that we had , let me get 745 00:26:36,439 --> 00:26:40,420 the number here that 746 00:26:40,430 --> 00:26:42,310 we had 100 and $37 billion of 747 00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:44,486 maintenance backlog that jive with the 748 00:26:44,486 --> 00:26:46,708 number you have . Yes , that is what we 749 00:26:46,708 --> 00:26:48,875 have reported . And I should note that 750 00:26:48,875 --> 00:26:50,486 is a uh a probably likely an 751 00:26:50,486 --> 00:26:52,709 underestimate . Thank you with that . 752 00:26:52,719 --> 00:26:55,052 I'll recognize MS Higgins from Virginia . 753 00:26:55,052 --> 00:26:56,552 She represents large naval 754 00:26:56,552 --> 00:26:59,000 installations . Thank you , Mr Chair . 755 00:26:59,010 --> 00:27:00,788 I , I represent Virginia second 756 00:27:00,788 --> 00:27:02,843 congressional district . So Virginia 757 00:27:02,843 --> 00:27:05,066 Beach , Hampton roads area , large navy 758 00:27:05,066 --> 00:27:06,899 and veteran population . I can't 759 00:27:06,899 --> 00:27:09,066 imagine how frustrated how frustrating 760 00:27:09,066 --> 00:27:11,288 it was just to visit those barracks . I 761 00:27:11,288 --> 00:27:13,510 know on barracks tours in my district , 762 00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:13,359 I have left almost in tears . It's , 763 00:27:13,369 --> 00:27:15,536 it's hard to watch , you know , as a , 764 00:27:15,536 --> 00:27:17,702 as a veteran navy , navy spouse , navy 765 00:27:17,702 --> 00:27:19,869 mom . I mean , I might , I think of my 766 00:27:19,869 --> 00:27:22,091 kids and their friends and , uh , I put 767 00:27:22,091 --> 00:27:23,925 my staff in my minivan the first 768 00:27:23,925 --> 00:27:26,091 weekend I could and drove them down to 769 00:27:26,091 --> 00:27:28,147 Hampton Roads and said , look around 770 00:27:28,147 --> 00:27:27,910 and , and think about , you know , we 771 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,253 talked about the , the college campuses , 772 00:27:30,253 --> 00:27:32,253 but think about the dorms there and 773 00:27:32,253 --> 00:27:34,253 I've done lots of dorm , you know , 774 00:27:34,253 --> 00:27:36,476 tours with my , my high school kids and 775 00:27:36,476 --> 00:27:38,531 then think about the conditions that 776 00:27:38,531 --> 00:27:40,753 we're asking these guys to live in . So 777 00:27:40,753 --> 00:27:40,560 I know we've mentioned recruitment 778 00:27:40,569 --> 00:27:42,402 retention , but I mean , this is 779 00:27:42,402 --> 00:27:44,770 absolutely directly correlated to those 780 00:27:44,780 --> 00:27:46,947 issues . It hurts my heart when I hear 781 00:27:46,947 --> 00:27:49,510 other navy and military parents say , 782 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,631 you know , I can't recommend this job 783 00:27:51,631 --> 00:27:53,687 to my kids for these reasons . So we 784 00:27:53,687 --> 00:27:55,742 have to do better . Uh I know that , 785 00:27:55,742 --> 00:27:57,798 you know , as a nurse practitioner , 786 00:27:57,798 --> 00:27:57,520 housing is certainly a component of 787 00:27:57,530 --> 00:27:59,819 health care . Uh So when I think of 788 00:27:59,829 --> 00:28:02,051 nutrition and I think of , I want , you 789 00:28:02,051 --> 00:28:04,051 know , a troop troops that are have 790 00:28:04,051 --> 00:28:06,162 good physical readiness , good mental 791 00:28:06,162 --> 00:28:08,107 health , all of the things we talk 792 00:28:08,107 --> 00:28:09,940 about routinely here in Congress 793 00:28:09,940 --> 00:28:11,940 housing is certainly a component of 794 00:28:11,940 --> 00:28:14,051 that . So we've got to get it right . 795 00:28:14,051 --> 00:28:13,569 I'd let you said , you know , chronic 796 00:28:13,579 --> 00:28:15,801 neglect and underfunding . I think that 797 00:28:15,801 --> 00:28:17,912 was kind of a perfect summary of , of 798 00:28:17,912 --> 00:28:19,968 what's wrong with this and , and you 799 00:28:19,968 --> 00:28:22,135 talked about base leadership and , and 800 00:28:22,135 --> 00:28:24,079 how they , uh you know , the , the 801 00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:26,079 request for money weren't there . I 802 00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:28,190 mean , I , I got so angry with , with 803 00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:30,412 our base leadership because they didn't 804 00:28:30,412 --> 00:28:30,219 put in the request . They're , they're 805 00:28:30,229 --> 00:28:32,062 busy war fighting . They're busy 806 00:28:32,062 --> 00:28:34,229 training . I get it . But I think it's 807 00:28:34,229 --> 00:28:36,396 our job . We talked oversight a little 808 00:28:36,396 --> 00:28:38,396 bit but to , to pester them . Hey , 809 00:28:38,396 --> 00:28:40,618 what do you need ? It's the deadline is 810 00:28:40,618 --> 00:28:42,729 coming up . What do you need ? I want 811 00:28:42,729 --> 00:28:44,951 to put money in for you . We get $0 for 812 00:28:44,951 --> 00:28:47,173 any this past year . So and only 49% of 813 00:28:47,173 --> 00:28:49,396 our housing is livable . 49% . I mean , 814 00:28:49,396 --> 00:28:51,396 51% is not livable . And when I say 815 00:28:51,396 --> 00:28:53,451 livable , that's even questionable . 816 00:28:53,451 --> 00:28:55,507 When we went , we saw the conditions 817 00:28:55,507 --> 00:28:57,618 that looked eerily similar to some of 818 00:28:57,618 --> 00:28:59,673 the pictures you posted . So , so we 819 00:28:59,673 --> 00:29:01,507 have to do better . I I know our 820 00:29:01,507 --> 00:29:03,673 defense budget is limited . You know , 821 00:29:03,673 --> 00:29:03,189 I , we just had a brief discussion on 822 00:29:03,199 --> 00:29:05,421 privatization . I've seen some of the , 823 00:29:05,421 --> 00:29:07,643 the good things we've done at Norfolk . 824 00:29:07,643 --> 00:29:09,977 I'm I I , you need talked about scoring . 825 00:29:09,977 --> 00:29:11,977 Maybe we need to change that , that 826 00:29:11,977 --> 00:29:13,977 scoring the way we're doing , doing 827 00:29:13,977 --> 00:29:16,199 scoring so that we can a lot for that , 828 00:29:16,199 --> 00:29:18,366 that housing money to be going towards 829 00:29:18,366 --> 00:29:20,477 privatization . We can't do it all on 830 00:29:20,477 --> 00:29:22,588 the defense budget . I certainly want 831 00:29:22,588 --> 00:29:24,532 to prioritize war fighting . So we 832 00:29:24,532 --> 00:29:26,755 gotta think outside the box here . So , 833 00:29:26,755 --> 00:29:28,755 you know , do you , I know you said 834 00:29:28,755 --> 00:29:30,810 there was some , some uh things that 835 00:29:30,810 --> 00:29:34,319 you were some concerns . But I mean , 836 00:29:34,329 --> 00:29:36,273 do you think that's a direction we 837 00:29:36,273 --> 00:29:38,496 should be pursuing ? I personally think 838 00:29:38,496 --> 00:29:40,607 it's a direction we're pursuing ? But 839 00:29:40,607 --> 00:29:42,551 you're the expert . I have so many 840 00:29:42,551 --> 00:29:44,662 thoughts based on what you said . But 841 00:29:44,662 --> 00:29:47,650 um uh Gao has in the past recommended 842 00:29:47,660 --> 00:29:49,869 that dod explore and examine 843 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,658 privatization more closely as a 844 00:29:51,658 --> 00:29:53,880 possible option . What came out of that 845 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,991 were service specific strategies that 846 00:29:55,991 --> 00:29:57,936 you , you shouldn't sort of really 847 00:29:57,936 --> 00:29:59,880 couldn't use them to inform policy 848 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:01,991 decision making , which is why we are 849 00:30:01,991 --> 00:30:03,936 really looking forward to that dod 850 00:30:03,936 --> 00:30:05,658 report , which is overdue . Um 851 00:30:05,658 --> 00:30:07,769 Certainly , I think that is an option 852 00:30:07,769 --> 00:30:09,936 that that should be explored . I don't 853 00:30:09,936 --> 00:30:12,158 from the Gao perspective want to make a 854 00:30:12,158 --> 00:30:14,380 policy call . But , but absolutely , uh 855 00:30:14,380 --> 00:30:16,739 there are um benefits to privatization 856 00:30:16,750 --> 00:30:18,972 as well as there are cons . But uh as I 857 00:30:18,972 --> 00:30:21,194 said , the , the facilities I tour that 858 00:30:21,194 --> 00:30:23,139 were privatized were , were really 859 00:30:23,139 --> 00:30:25,306 impressive . Can I make one note about 860 00:30:25,306 --> 00:30:24,910 Oceana ? Because I think it's important 861 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,976 and about navy in particular and I'm 862 00:30:26,976 --> 00:30:29,142 sure you're aware of this uh condition 863 00:30:29,142 --> 00:30:31,142 score is zero to a 100 for every uh 864 00:30:31,142 --> 00:30:34,150 facility or , or every barracks . Um 865 00:30:34,229 --> 00:30:36,396 The one in an Oceana that we've looked 866 00:30:36,396 --> 00:30:38,451 at has a score of 12 out of 100 that 867 00:30:38,451 --> 00:30:40,618 said for three fiscal years in a row . 868 00:30:40,618 --> 00:30:43,209 The Navy requested $0 for new military 869 00:30:43,219 --> 00:30:46,180 construction for barracks . Uh And uh 870 00:30:46,189 --> 00:30:49,040 one installation , one other Navy 871 00:30:49,050 --> 00:30:51,569 installation , the installation did put 872 00:30:51,579 --> 00:30:53,690 forward a request for funding for new 873 00:30:53,690 --> 00:30:56,410 barracks for 10 years in a row and 874 00:30:56,420 --> 00:30:58,550 never got it funded . So that is , I 875 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,282 think in part why installation 876 00:31:00,282 --> 00:31:02,449 commanders are throwing up their hands 877 00:31:02,449 --> 00:31:04,560 and , and giving up . Yeah . Well , I 878 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,727 think it's our job in Congress to , to 879 00:31:06,727 --> 00:31:08,727 educate them . I mean , they change 880 00:31:08,727 --> 00:31:10,838 every 2 to 3 years . They are focused 881 00:31:10,838 --> 00:31:12,893 on things that need to be focused on 882 00:31:12,893 --> 00:31:15,116 getting that mission done . So it's our 883 00:31:15,116 --> 00:31:14,619 job to say , hey , we , we want to get 884 00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:16,750 you money , help us uh with how to do 885 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,140 that uh in the dud accountability piece . 886 00:31:19,150 --> 00:31:21,206 I mean , I , I think , uh you know , 887 00:31:21,206 --> 00:31:23,206 Assistant Secretary Burger has been 888 00:31:23,206 --> 00:31:22,890 wonderful . She's come down a couple of 889 00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:24,956 times so I've really enjoyed working 890 00:31:24,956 --> 00:31:27,067 with her . Uh I don't know if , if we 891 00:31:27,067 --> 00:31:28,789 need to , you talked about the 892 00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:30,789 Department of Defense was kind of a 893 00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:32,900 little less clear . So putting some , 894 00:31:32,900 --> 00:31:35,067 some just people in place to make sure 895 00:31:35,067 --> 00:31:36,844 there is that accountability in 896 00:31:36,844 --> 00:31:38,900 addition to , to members of Congress 897 00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:41,234 doing , doing our job as well . Um And 898 00:31:41,244 --> 00:31:43,466 then the only other comment I would , I 899 00:31:43,466 --> 00:31:45,688 would have is that you , you know , I , 900 00:31:45,688 --> 00:31:47,744 I think of other apartment complexes 901 00:31:47,744 --> 00:31:47,405 who's building these things initially . 902 00:31:47,415 --> 00:31:49,655 I know we have one at Nes at Naval 903 00:31:49,665 --> 00:31:52,244 Station Norfolk that $80 million and 904 00:31:52,255 --> 00:31:54,422 it's less than 20 years old covered in 905 00:31:54,422 --> 00:31:56,422 black mold . I mean , they , they , 906 00:31:56,422 --> 00:31:58,588 it's on the demo list . That's another 907 00:31:58,588 --> 00:31:58,515 thing . We need to increase funding for 908 00:31:58,525 --> 00:32:00,747 a demolition and I'm sick of looking at 909 00:32:00,747 --> 00:32:00,734 these buildings that we're not gonna be 910 00:32:00,744 --> 00:32:03,339 able to , to restore . But , uh , but 911 00:32:03,349 --> 00:32:05,460 just making sure that we are building 912 00:32:05,460 --> 00:32:07,571 quality products , I think we are not 913 00:32:07,571 --> 00:32:09,627 building quality products and that's 914 00:32:09,627 --> 00:32:09,500 leading to a lot of these issues and 915 00:32:09,510 --> 00:32:11,621 I'm out of time . But all I go on for 916 00:32:11,621 --> 00:32:13,788 about another hour . Thank you . Thank 917 00:32:13,788 --> 00:32:15,788 you . Uh Miss I , I'd like to piggy 918 00:32:15,788 --> 00:32:17,732 back at something you said because 919 00:32:17,732 --> 00:32:20,010 there's a , a point you're making , we , 920 00:32:20,010 --> 00:32:22,119 we're making that like commanders at 921 00:32:22,130 --> 00:32:24,019 these installations , worry about 922 00:32:24,019 --> 00:32:26,186 fighting wars and combat readiness and 923 00:32:26,186 --> 00:32:28,408 all that . And that is so so true . But 924 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,087 as an installation commander , you got 925 00:32:31,087 --> 00:32:33,087 folks that they're in charge of the 926 00:32:33,087 --> 00:32:35,142 installation , civil engineering and 927 00:32:35,142 --> 00:32:37,364 all these facilities . And then also at 928 00:32:37,364 --> 00:32:39,476 the headquarters , you have two stars 929 00:32:39,476 --> 00:32:41,642 and three star level leadership that's 930 00:32:41,642 --> 00:32:43,587 supposed to be overseeing this . I 931 00:32:43,587 --> 00:32:45,809 would just like to submit again . Yes , 932 00:32:45,809 --> 00:32:45,579 we gotta win wars . We got to make sure 933 00:32:45,589 --> 00:32:47,811 we're ready to fight and win . But it's 934 00:32:47,811 --> 00:32:49,867 also our responsibility to make sure 935 00:32:49,867 --> 00:32:51,922 these facilities are serving our men 936 00:32:51,922 --> 00:32:54,033 and women who are there . And so this 937 00:32:54,033 --> 00:32:56,200 comes back to a leadership issue in my 938 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,367 view . I just wanted to add in because 939 00:32:58,367 --> 00:33:00,660 it's so somebody took their eyes off 940 00:33:00,670 --> 00:33:03,010 the ball here . Bottom line . So with 941 00:33:03,020 --> 00:33:05,030 that Miss Jacobs from California , 942 00:33:05,140 --> 00:33:07,380 thank you , Mr Chair M Field . Great to 943 00:33:07,390 --> 00:33:11,079 see you . Um I uh first uh want to talk 944 00:33:11,089 --> 00:33:13,770 about this um funding of of barracks , 945 00:33:13,780 --> 00:33:16,000 as you mentioned , um barracks are 946 00:33:16,010 --> 00:33:17,954 competing against other facilities 947 00:33:17,954 --> 00:33:21,219 funding the FY 22 NDA A included a 948 00:33:21,229 --> 00:33:23,451 provision that required the military to 949 00:33:23,451 --> 00:33:25,618 make investments in the improvement of 950 00:33:25,618 --> 00:33:27,673 unaccompanied military housing using 951 00:33:27,673 --> 00:33:29,840 FSRM funds in an amount equal to 5% of 952 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,951 the estimated replacement cost of the 953 00:33:31,951 --> 00:33:33,785 total inventory of unaccompanied 954 00:33:33,785 --> 00:33:35,951 housing under the jurisdiction of that 955 00:33:35,951 --> 00:33:38,062 secretary . Um Is this 5% requirement 956 00:33:38,062 --> 00:33:42,020 being met ? So we don't know 957 00:33:42,030 --> 00:33:44,086 in part because the department could 958 00:33:44,086 --> 00:33:46,141 not figure out how to do it . That's 959 00:33:46,141 --> 00:33:48,308 one of our recommendations that the is 960 00:33:48,308 --> 00:33:50,530 that the department track its funding , 961 00:33:50,530 --> 00:33:52,808 particularly FSRM funding for barracks . 962 00:33:52,808 --> 00:33:55,030 So we asked that question , we couldn't 963 00:33:55,030 --> 00:33:57,086 get an answer uh in all likelihood , 964 00:33:57,086 --> 00:33:56,989 probably not . And I would encourage 965 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,167 you to ask that at the second panel as 966 00:33:59,167 --> 00:34:01,222 well . Ok , good to know . And , and 967 00:34:01,222 --> 00:34:03,333 based on your research , I'm guessing 968 00:34:03,333 --> 00:34:05,444 you would say it would be helpful for 969 00:34:05,444 --> 00:34:07,667 Congress to require dod to disaggregate 970 00:34:07,667 --> 00:34:09,944 the funds so we can track this funding . 971 00:34:09,944 --> 00:34:12,056 That certainly would be one way to do 972 00:34:12,056 --> 00:34:13,722 it . Um We also encourage the 973 00:34:13,722 --> 00:34:15,944 department to do it even if there isn't 974 00:34:15,944 --> 00:34:18,278 a congressional requirement . Thank you . 975 00:34:18,278 --> 00:34:20,500 I know you mentioned you visited uh the 976 00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:22,667 privatized barracks in San Diego , one 977 00:34:22,667 --> 00:34:22,398 of the things I hear from our I , I 978 00:34:22,408 --> 00:34:24,630 represent San Diego . One of the things 979 00:34:24,630 --> 00:34:26,797 we hear from , from our folks there is 980 00:34:26,797 --> 00:34:28,852 that part of why they can be so much 981 00:34:28,852 --> 00:34:30,797 nicer is because , because they're 982 00:34:30,797 --> 00:34:33,749 doing the bah replacement to the 983 00:34:33,759 --> 00:34:36,037 barracks , it's essentially fenced off , 984 00:34:36,037 --> 00:34:38,203 funding directly for the barracks that 985 00:34:38,203 --> 00:34:40,203 isn't actually competing with other 986 00:34:40,203 --> 00:34:42,426 funding . Right . That those barracks , 987 00:34:42,426 --> 00:34:44,481 I believe the Pacific you're talking 988 00:34:44,481 --> 00:34:46,703 about was created under a pilot um that 989 00:34:46,703 --> 00:34:48,926 they gave the navy authority to , to do 990 00:34:48,926 --> 00:34:51,037 that , that full um for that specific 991 00:34:51,037 --> 00:34:54,780 project . Um I also uh wanna touch on 992 00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:56,623 uh aircraft carriers , obviously 993 00:34:56,623 --> 00:34:58,734 representing San Diego . Um We have a 994 00:34:58,734 --> 00:35:01,110 lot of those . Um and uh I know the 995 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,287 report detailed why living on aircraft 996 00:35:03,287 --> 00:35:05,287 carriers can be difficult . Can you 997 00:35:05,287 --> 00:35:06,898 expand on what some of these 998 00:35:06,898 --> 00:35:09,009 difficulties are and how they compare 999 00:35:09,009 --> 00:35:10,953 to the living conditions for other 1000 00:35:10,953 --> 00:35:13,176 junior enlisted sailors ? Yeah . And in 1001 00:35:13,176 --> 00:35:15,231 fact , I had the opportunity with my 1002 00:35:15,231 --> 00:35:17,287 team in San Diego to tour one of the 1003 00:35:17,287 --> 00:35:17,260 carriers that was in port and where 1004 00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:19,381 some service members were living . Uh 1005 00:35:19,381 --> 00:35:22,340 It is , it is a rough life . Um It is 1006 00:35:22,350 --> 00:35:24,939 extremely noisy because they are doing 1007 00:35:24,949 --> 00:35:27,005 maintenance on the ship when it's in 1008 00:35:27,005 --> 00:35:29,227 port . Uh oftentimes they will not have 1009 00:35:29,227 --> 00:35:31,250 running water . Uh Oftentimes there 1010 00:35:31,260 --> 00:35:33,482 might not be heat or air conditioning . 1011 00:35:33,482 --> 00:35:35,649 We spoke with service members who were 1012 00:35:35,649 --> 00:35:37,871 living on , on the ship and they were , 1013 00:35:37,871 --> 00:35:39,816 they were pretty unhappy . We also 1014 00:35:39,816 --> 00:35:41,704 toured a barge which was not much 1015 00:35:41,704 --> 00:35:43,820 better . Um , good to know , um , 1016 00:35:43,830 --> 00:35:45,941 regarding the barge because we pushed 1017 00:35:45,941 --> 00:35:47,997 hard to try and get the barge to try 1018 00:35:47,997 --> 00:35:50,290 and alleviate some of the , the uh 1019 00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:52,467 carrier conditions . But it seems like 1020 00:35:52,467 --> 00:35:54,633 that was not actually an improvement . 1021 00:35:54,633 --> 00:35:56,800 Uh , when you're on it , it , you feel 1022 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,856 like you're back on the ship , to be 1023 00:35:58,856 --> 00:36:01,022 honest , but it , it does have running 1024 00:36:01,022 --> 00:36:00,530 water and heat and air conditioning . 1025 00:36:00,540 --> 00:36:02,540 So that's , it's an improvement but 1026 00:36:02,540 --> 00:36:04,707 it's not much better . Got it . Well , 1027 00:36:04,707 --> 00:36:07,250 um that's helpful . Um One of the ND A 1028 00:36:07,260 --> 00:36:09,427 provisions that Chair Bacon and I were 1029 00:36:09,427 --> 00:36:11,482 able to get and this year is to give 1030 00:36:11,482 --> 00:36:13,427 commanding officers the ability to 1031 00:36:13,427 --> 00:36:15,427 grant bah to junior service members 1032 00:36:15,427 --> 00:36:17,482 when they determine it's in the best 1033 00:36:17,482 --> 00:36:19,538 interest of the member and , and the 1034 00:36:19,538 --> 00:36:21,704 command . And so I'm hopeful we'll get 1035 00:36:21,704 --> 00:36:21,520 that all the way through and at least 1036 00:36:21,530 --> 00:36:23,697 be able to give some of our commanders 1037 00:36:23,697 --> 00:36:25,586 a little more flexibility for our 1038 00:36:25,586 --> 00:36:27,752 junior enlisted to be able to , to get 1039 00:36:27,752 --> 00:36:29,974 into um community housing when needed . 1040 00:36:29,974 --> 00:36:33,820 Um The , the last question I have um is 1041 00:36:33,830 --> 00:36:36,449 on this uh oversight question , you 1042 00:36:36,459 --> 00:36:39,429 know , Gao found that uh although each 1043 00:36:39,439 --> 00:36:41,161 of the military departments is 1044 00:36:41,161 --> 00:36:42,939 conducting inspections prior to 1045 00:36:42,939 --> 00:36:45,050 resident occupancy , um they have not 1046 00:36:45,060 --> 00:36:46,727 developed clear or consistent 1047 00:36:46,727 --> 00:36:48,838 inspection standards and the military 1048 00:36:48,838 --> 00:36:50,671 departments have not provided uh 1049 00:36:50,671 --> 00:36:52,989 adequate inspector training . I know 1050 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,167 that these were recommendations from a 1051 00:36:55,167 --> 00:36:57,222 prior JO report . Can you provide an 1052 00:36:57,222 --> 00:36:58,722 update on on whether these 1053 00:36:58,722 --> 00:37:00,889 recommendations have been uh completed 1054 00:37:01,580 --> 00:37:03,802 uh to date . I do not believe they have 1055 00:37:03,802 --> 00:37:05,802 been completed . We are expecting a 1056 00:37:05,802 --> 00:37:07,636 letter from the department and I 1057 00:37:07,636 --> 00:37:09,469 believe early October that would 1058 00:37:09,469 --> 00:37:11,580 provide us an update , but thus far . 1059 00:37:11,580 --> 00:37:13,580 No . Ok , thank you . Well , I will 1060 00:37:13,580 --> 00:37:15,691 look forward um to this panel working 1061 00:37:15,691 --> 00:37:17,913 to make sure that we are uh getting dod 1062 00:37:17,913 --> 00:37:20,219 to both uh do the disaggregated funding 1063 00:37:20,229 --> 00:37:22,451 and , and spend money on barracks , but 1064 00:37:22,451 --> 00:37:24,173 also um do some of these other 1065 00:37:24,173 --> 00:37:26,173 recommendations and , and track the 1066 00:37:26,173 --> 00:37:28,118 quality of facilities uh in a more 1067 00:37:28,118 --> 00:37:27,909 coherent way . So thank you , Mr Chair . 1068 00:37:27,949 --> 00:37:30,005 Thank you , Miss Jacobs . One of the 1069 00:37:30,005 --> 00:37:32,005 goals in this committee is to write 1070 00:37:32,005 --> 00:37:31,949 down recommendations to the asks that 1071 00:37:31,959 --> 00:37:33,959 we can put in the next ND A . So we 1072 00:37:33,959 --> 00:37:36,360 hope to have some strong 1073 00:37:36,370 --> 00:37:38,537 recommendations for the committee as a 1074 00:37:38,537 --> 00:37:40,820 whole uh to execute the next defense 1075 00:37:40,830 --> 00:37:42,886 authorization bill . There's another 1076 00:37:42,886 --> 00:37:45,108 don in the room . I'd like to recognize 1077 00:37:45,108 --> 00:37:47,274 Mr Davis of North Carolina . Thanks so 1078 00:37:47,274 --> 00:37:50,030 much Mr Chair and um thank you , 1079 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,639 Director Phil for being here today . I 1080 00:37:52,649 --> 00:37:55,709 wanna start by saying I associate with 1081 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,729 earlier comments that we must 1082 00:37:59,739 --> 00:38:02,669 be focused on winning the fight . Um 1083 00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:05,770 But as the chair also indicated uh 1084 00:38:05,780 --> 00:38:08,260 leaders , if they're focused on winning 1085 00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:10,492 the fight , understand you have to take 1086 00:38:10,492 --> 00:38:12,714 care of your people . That's the bottom 1087 00:38:12,714 --> 00:38:16,580 line . So thank you Mr Chair and that 1088 00:38:16,590 --> 00:38:20,080 leads me into um just wanting to have a 1089 00:38:20,090 --> 00:38:22,159 greater understanding of the comment 1090 00:38:22,169 --> 00:38:25,570 that I heard earlier when I believe I 1091 00:38:25,580 --> 00:38:28,540 heard there was a lack of knowledge of 1092 00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:31,540 understanding of the conditions that 1093 00:38:31,550 --> 00:38:33,717 was actually taking place on the bar . 1094 00:38:33,717 --> 00:38:36,209 Could you please shine some light on 1095 00:38:36,219 --> 00:38:40,129 this ? So each facility is 1096 00:38:40,139 --> 00:38:42,195 given a condition score between zero 1097 00:38:42,195 --> 00:38:44,800 and 100 . As , as I noted what we found 1098 00:38:44,810 --> 00:38:46,866 when we went out to installations is 1099 00:38:46,866 --> 00:38:49,199 that those scores are really unreliable . 1100 00:38:49,199 --> 00:38:51,439 So for example , we went to a facility 1101 00:38:51,449 --> 00:38:54,139 in the DC area that had a score of 86 1102 00:38:54,149 --> 00:38:56,260 out of 100 which sounds pretty good . 1103 00:38:56,290 --> 00:38:58,909 That facility had a quarter of its air 1104 00:38:58,919 --> 00:39:01,030 conditioning broken . So a quarter of 1105 00:39:01,030 --> 00:39:03,141 residents had no air conditioning and 1106 00:39:03,141 --> 00:39:05,030 yet it still had an 86 . And this 1107 00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:04,699 happened again and again where we would 1108 00:39:04,709 --> 00:39:06,931 go to installations and the scores just 1109 00:39:06,931 --> 00:39:09,153 did not make sense . We tried to figure 1110 00:39:09,153 --> 00:39:11,153 out what's going on . Why is this a 1111 00:39:11,153 --> 00:39:13,042 problem ? And we identified a few 1112 00:39:13,042 --> 00:39:15,209 issues . One , they , the frequency of 1113 00:39:15,209 --> 00:39:17,542 assessments was , was likely not enough . 1114 00:39:17,542 --> 00:39:19,709 Uh Right now the dod standard is every 1115 00:39:19,709 --> 00:39:21,820 five years consistently in commanders 1116 00:39:21,820 --> 00:39:23,765 told us five years is not frequent 1117 00:39:23,765 --> 00:39:25,820 enough . Uh And in some cases , they 1118 00:39:25,820 --> 00:39:28,153 weren't even doing them that frequently . 1119 00:39:28,153 --> 00:39:30,209 So that's a problem . Another one is 1120 00:39:30,209 --> 00:39:30,085 the number of systems that they're 1121 00:39:30,095 --> 00:39:32,325 assessing . There are 13 building 1122 00:39:32,335 --> 00:39:34,335 systems that they're supposed to be 1123 00:39:34,335 --> 00:39:36,391 assessing in some cases , they don't 1124 00:39:36,391 --> 00:39:38,168 always do that . Another is the 1125 00:39:38,168 --> 00:39:40,224 training of the uh inspectors , they 1126 00:39:40,224 --> 00:39:42,168 may not have training . There's no 1127 00:39:42,168 --> 00:39:44,113 standard standard right now . Some 1128 00:39:44,113 --> 00:39:46,113 services like the Air Force do have 1129 00:39:46,113 --> 00:39:47,891 standard hire uh personnel with 1130 00:39:47,891 --> 00:39:50,168 expertise to do the inspections . Some , 1131 00:39:50,168 --> 00:39:52,471 some uh servicess do not uh some take a 1132 00:39:52,481 --> 00:39:54,592 centralized model where the same team 1133 00:39:54,592 --> 00:39:56,370 will go out and inspect various 1134 00:39:56,370 --> 00:39:58,481 barracks across the services . Others 1135 00:39:58,481 --> 00:40:00,703 have a decentralized model . So we have 1136 00:40:00,703 --> 00:40:02,961 a recommendation to dod to reassess 1137 00:40:02,971 --> 00:40:04,931 everything from requirements for 1138 00:40:04,941 --> 00:40:07,461 frequency to to standards to inspection , 1139 00:40:07,471 --> 00:40:11,179 inspection , inspector training . And I 1140 00:40:11,189 --> 00:40:13,600 would follow up on that by simply 1141 00:40:13,610 --> 00:40:16,360 saying so even if we throw all the 1142 00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:19,610 money at it , but we still never keep 1143 00:40:19,620 --> 00:40:23,310 up . There's no consistency on how 1144 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,290 we're assessing the situation . Um How 1145 00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:29,810 does that help us ? That's right . That 1146 00:40:29,820 --> 00:40:31,264 that's why so many of our 1147 00:40:31,264 --> 00:40:33,209 recommendations are toward getting 1148 00:40:33,209 --> 00:40:35,030 greater consistency across the 1149 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,989 department and better information 1150 00:40:37,199 --> 00:40:39,560 because I think there always will be um 1151 00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:42,129 resource limitations . But if you have 1152 00:40:42,139 --> 00:40:44,028 better information , you can make 1153 00:40:44,028 --> 00:40:47,590 smarter more targeted decisions . Let 1154 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,822 me ask another question . We're talking 1155 00:40:49,830 --> 00:40:52,000 about readiness . This has come up 1156 00:40:52,010 --> 00:40:55,050 several times and without any doubt . 1157 00:40:55,060 --> 00:40:57,459 And I think anyone's mind is thinking 1158 00:40:57,469 --> 00:40:59,136 about this because this is so 1159 00:40:59,136 --> 00:41:01,229 unacceptable . Um There must be an 1160 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,406 impact but clearly data's all over the 1161 00:41:03,409 --> 00:41:06,770 place . But was there any data that 1162 00:41:06,780 --> 00:41:10,070 exists whatsoever that would really 1163 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,560 help us understand how this is 1164 00:41:13,570 --> 00:41:15,237 impacting us from a readiness 1165 00:41:15,237 --> 00:41:18,219 perspective ? Data ? No , I wish there 1166 00:41:18,229 --> 00:41:20,909 were but certainly uh that is something 1167 00:41:20,919 --> 00:41:23,086 that we heard about . I'll give , just 1168 00:41:23,086 --> 00:41:25,308 give you two examples . We heard from , 1169 00:41:25,308 --> 00:41:27,475 uh , residents of barracks that , uh , 1170 00:41:27,475 --> 00:41:29,530 because they are so uncomfortable in 1171 00:41:29,530 --> 00:41:29,149 their barracks rooms , they have a hard 1172 00:41:29,159 --> 00:41:31,215 time sleeping , they're tired on the 1173 00:41:31,215 --> 00:41:33,215 job . They don't feel like they can 1174 00:41:33,215 --> 00:41:35,215 perform and , and focus on the work 1175 00:41:35,215 --> 00:41:37,270 that they have to do . We also heard 1176 00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:36,870 from first sergeants who are 1177 00:41:36,879 --> 00:41:39,459 responsible for training , uh , these , 1178 00:41:39,655 --> 00:41:41,822 your enlisted service members and they 1179 00:41:41,822 --> 00:41:43,933 say , uh , they , they told us , uh , 1180 00:41:43,933 --> 00:41:46,155 specifically that sometimes they , they 1181 00:41:46,155 --> 00:41:48,211 take it easier on them in training . 1182 00:41:48,211 --> 00:41:50,322 They will , uh cut back the length of 1183 00:41:50,322 --> 00:41:49,975 runs or the specific drills they're 1184 00:41:49,985 --> 00:41:52,207 gonna put their service members through 1185 00:41:52,207 --> 00:41:54,429 because they know they're going home to 1186 00:41:54,429 --> 00:41:53,854 the barracks at night . So clear 1187 00:41:53,864 --> 00:41:56,086 readiness implications there , the last 1188 00:41:56,086 --> 00:41:58,086 thing I would like to raise , which 1189 00:41:58,086 --> 00:42:00,844 really resonated to me because it's 1190 00:42:01,770 --> 00:42:04,169 connected to readiness as well is 1191 00:42:04,179 --> 00:42:06,540 specifically talking about the concerns 1192 00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:09,179 around nutrition . Um Could you address 1193 00:42:09,189 --> 00:42:11,239 that just a little bit more because 1194 00:42:11,479 --> 00:42:13,969 this is not just a matter of 1195 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,419 not having access to certain , 1196 00:42:18,429 --> 00:42:21,300 you know , um accommodations in a room , 1197 00:42:21,350 --> 00:42:24,649 but I think there's a broader readiness 1198 00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:27,399 part of this if you could speak towards 1199 00:42:27,409 --> 00:42:29,520 this . Absolutely . And I should note 1200 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,576 we have an audit ongoing right now , 1201 00:42:31,576 --> 00:42:33,520 looking at food and nutrition more 1202 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,687 broadly and that report will be coming 1203 00:42:35,687 --> 00:42:37,853 out early next year . Um , in terms of 1204 00:42:37,853 --> 00:42:37,679 the barracks , uh , it was one of the 1205 00:42:37,689 --> 00:42:39,856 most common complaints that we heard . 1206 00:42:39,856 --> 00:42:41,967 It actually surprised us how often it 1207 00:42:41,967 --> 00:42:44,078 came up . Uh , and service members do 1208 00:42:44,078 --> 00:42:46,356 want to be able to cook for themselves . 1209 00:42:46,356 --> 00:42:48,356 Uh One service , one first sergeant 1210 00:42:48,356 --> 00:42:50,467 told us that when he moved out of the 1211 00:42:50,467 --> 00:42:50,300 barracks , he could finally cook for 1212 00:42:50,310 --> 00:42:52,421 himself . He lost £20 because he was 1213 00:42:52,421 --> 00:42:54,477 able to cook for himself . Um , uh , 1214 00:42:54,477 --> 00:42:56,250 and uh , access to the dining 1215 00:42:56,260 --> 00:42:58,610 facilities is part of it . So sometimes 1216 00:42:58,620 --> 00:43:00,731 if you're working a night shift , you 1217 00:43:00,731 --> 00:43:03,064 don't have necessarily um access to the , 1218 00:43:03,064 --> 00:43:05,231 to the defect when you need it because 1219 00:43:05,231 --> 00:43:04,729 you're sleeping during the day and it 1220 00:43:04,739 --> 00:43:06,795 can be hard . Uh walking distance to 1221 00:43:06,795 --> 00:43:08,795 the D A can also be , be an issue , 1222 00:43:08,795 --> 00:43:10,961 operating hours of a defect . So a lot 1223 00:43:10,961 --> 00:43:13,128 of issues there and we look forward to 1224 00:43:13,128 --> 00:43:15,183 reporting on , on that . Thank you . 1225 00:43:15,183 --> 00:43:18,080 You bet . I wanna take a moment to say 1226 00:43:18,090 --> 00:43:20,949 thank you for your testimony today , 1227 00:43:20,959 --> 00:43:23,126 but also the GAO for what they did . I 1228 00:43:23,126 --> 00:43:25,348 think you've highlighted something that 1229 00:43:25,348 --> 00:43:27,570 this committee knows we got to focus on 1230 00:43:27,570 --> 00:43:29,626 and uh and I think the moms and dads 1231 00:43:29,626 --> 00:43:31,737 all over this country appreciate this 1232 00:43:31,737 --> 00:43:33,792 because we'll make things better for 1233 00:43:33,792 --> 00:43:35,959 their sons and daughters and those who 1234 00:43:35,959 --> 00:43:35,899 defend our country . And some of my key 1235 00:43:35,909 --> 00:43:37,909 takeaways here is this isn't just a 1236 00:43:37,909 --> 00:43:40,131 money problem , which it is and we need 1237 00:43:40,131 --> 00:43:43,330 to know definitively what is it gonna 1238 00:43:43,340 --> 00:43:45,507 cost to get this right . But it's also 1239 00:43:45,507 --> 00:43:48,870 policy accountability . So there's a 1240 00:43:48,879 --> 00:43:52,840 whole , I guess smorgasbord of stuff 1241 00:43:52,850 --> 00:43:55,072 that we need to work on here . It's not 1242 00:43:55,072 --> 00:43:57,072 money . So , thank you so much . We 1243 00:43:57,072 --> 00:43:59,239 appreciate your time with that . We're 1244 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,461 gonna go in about a two or three minute 1245 00:44:01,461 --> 00:44:03,683 recess . Uh We're gonna switch to panel 1246 00:44:03,683 --> 00:44:05,906 two and uh we'll come back in about two 1247 00:44:05,906 --> 00:44:07,628 or three minutes . Thank you , 1248 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,471 ladies and gentlemen , about ready to 1249 00:44:19,471 --> 00:44:20,471 start . Ok . 1250 00:44:27,409 --> 00:44:29,860 Ok . I want to welcome our second panel 1251 00:44:29,870 --> 00:44:32,092 and our witnesses . Thank you for being 1252 00:44:32,092 --> 00:44:34,092 here . We have Miss Carla Coulson , 1253 00:44:34,092 --> 00:44:36,259 Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army 1254 00:44:36,259 --> 00:44:38,037 for installations , Housing and 1255 00:44:38,037 --> 00:44:40,037 Partnerships . Mr Robert Thompson , 1256 00:44:40,037 --> 00:44:42,259 principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of 1257 00:44:42,259 --> 00:44:44,370 the Navy for Energy Installations and 1258 00:44:44,370 --> 00:44:46,426 Environment and Mr Robert Moriarty , 1259 00:44:46,426 --> 00:44:48,537 Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Air 1260 00:44:48,537 --> 00:44:50,703 Force for installations and uh someone 1261 00:44:50,703 --> 00:44:52,814 I served with back at Ramstein , each 1262 00:44:52,814 --> 00:44:54,870 witness will have the opportunity to 1263 00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:56,981 present his or her testimony and each 1264 00:44:56,981 --> 00:44:55,949 member will have an opportunity to 1265 00:44:55,959 --> 00:44:58,292 question the witnesses for five minutes . 1266 00:44:58,292 --> 00:45:00,459 You're hearing comments and statements 1267 00:45:00,459 --> 00:45:02,792 will be made part of the hearing record . 1268 00:45:02,792 --> 00:45:02,260 And with that , Miss Colson , you may 1269 00:45:02,270 --> 00:45:03,937 make your opening statement . 1270 00:45:06,169 --> 00:45:09,169 Thank you , Chairman Bacon . Uh I think 1271 00:45:09,179 --> 00:45:11,770 uh uh Congresswoman Escobar isn't here . 1272 00:45:12,129 --> 00:45:14,073 Uh uh But uh thank you also to the 1273 00:45:14,073 --> 00:45:16,018 distinguished members of the House 1274 00:45:16,018 --> 00:45:18,018 Armed Services Committee Quality of 1275 00:45:18,018 --> 00:45:20,185 Life panel . Uh Thank you for inviting 1276 00:45:20,185 --> 00:45:22,296 us here today to testify on our , the 1277 00:45:22,296 --> 00:45:24,462 Army's uh unaccompanied and privatized 1278 00:45:24,462 --> 00:45:26,685 family housing programs . As the army's 1279 00:45:26,685 --> 00:45:28,407 Deputy Assistant Secretary for 1280 00:45:28,407 --> 00:45:30,685 Installations Housing and partnerships . 1281 00:45:30,685 --> 00:45:32,907 I hope to have the opportunity to share 1282 00:45:32,907 --> 00:45:34,851 with you you the army's progress , 1283 00:45:34,851 --> 00:45:37,855 objectives , goals , challenges and 1284 00:45:37,865 --> 00:45:40,226 focus on these very essential programs , 1285 00:45:40,395 --> 00:45:42,506 quality of life . And in particular , 1286 00:45:42,506 --> 00:45:44,562 the opportunity for all soldiers and 1287 00:45:44,562 --> 00:45:46,395 their families to live in safe , 1288 00:45:46,395 --> 00:45:48,617 adequate quality housing remains at the 1289 00:45:48,617 --> 00:45:50,673 very top of the army , senior leader 1290 00:45:50,676 --> 00:45:53,006 priorities as it has been for a number 1291 00:45:53,016 --> 00:45:55,572 of years now , army leadership remains 1292 00:45:55,582 --> 00:45:58,362 steadfast and purposefully committed to 1293 00:45:58,372 --> 00:46:00,539 improving the army's housing posture . 1294 00:46:00,539 --> 00:46:02,701 Fully recognizing the linkage between 1295 00:46:02,842 --> 00:46:04,786 the quality of our housing and our 1296 00:46:04,786 --> 00:46:06,898 ability to recruit and retain a ready 1297 00:46:06,898 --> 00:46:09,481 force . Our commitment is evidenced by 1298 00:46:09,491 --> 00:46:11,491 our continued what we believe to be 1299 00:46:11,491 --> 00:46:13,511 high investments in unaccompanied 1300 00:46:13,521 --> 00:46:16,179 housing and in the own government , uh 1301 00:46:16,439 --> 00:46:19,110 army army housing inventory which is 1302 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,560 mostly located overseas as well as our 1303 00:46:21,570 --> 00:46:23,737 continued focus on improving oversight 1304 00:46:23,737 --> 00:46:25,903 of operation of our privatized housing 1305 00:46:25,903 --> 00:46:28,014 portfolio under the army's leadership 1306 00:46:28,014 --> 00:46:29,959 and direction . We have made great 1307 00:46:29,959 --> 00:46:32,181 strides in executing privatized housing 1308 00:46:32,181 --> 00:46:34,181 related actions directed by several 1309 00:46:34,181 --> 00:46:36,014 NDAS beginning with the military 1310 00:46:36,014 --> 00:46:38,239 housing privatization reform of 2020 . 1311 00:46:38,639 --> 00:46:40,806 And we have also implemented dozens of 1312 00:46:40,806 --> 00:46:42,917 recommendations made by the GAO , the 1313 00:46:42,917 --> 00:46:45,028 Dod and army inspectors general , the 1314 00:46:45,028 --> 00:46:47,169 army audit agency as well as an 1315 00:46:47,179 --> 00:46:49,401 independent third party auditor that we 1316 00:46:49,401 --> 00:46:51,540 hire annually to review 20% of our 1317 00:46:51,550 --> 00:46:54,449 privatized housing projects . The army 1318 00:46:54,459 --> 00:46:56,626 is proud to fully implement the tenant 1319 00:46:56,626 --> 00:46:58,737 bill of rights in September of 2021 . 1320 00:46:58,969 --> 00:47:01,025 This was a foundational step towards 1321 00:47:01,025 --> 00:47:03,360 reestablishing trust with our families 1322 00:47:03,649 --> 00:47:05,593 and the army has also included the 1323 00:47:05,593 --> 00:47:07,760 provisions of the fiscal year 2020 NDA 1324 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,038 A reforms in our ground lease template . 1325 00:47:10,199 --> 00:47:12,255 Uh This template is the foundational 1326 00:47:12,255 --> 00:47:14,032 legal document that governs our 1327 00:47:14,032 --> 00:47:16,760 privatized housing projects . All new 1328 00:47:16,770 --> 00:47:19,229 or modified army ground leases will 1329 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,639 contain statutory language that further 1330 00:47:21,649 --> 00:47:24,070 help to strengthen uh project level 1331 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,229 oversight . Although we have made great 1332 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,239 strides in improving the privatized 1333 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,406 housing program , we must build on our 1334 00:47:31,406 --> 00:47:33,760 progress . We very much appreciate and 1335 00:47:33,770 --> 00:47:35,714 have carefully considered the G OS 1336 00:47:35,714 --> 00:47:37,381 recent reports and have moved 1337 00:47:37,381 --> 00:47:39,381 immediately to address the report's 1338 00:47:39,381 --> 00:47:41,270 recommendations . Our focus going 1339 00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:43,159 forward is to continue to provide 1340 00:47:43,159 --> 00:47:45,270 soldiers and their families with safe 1341 00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:47,270 quality and habitable housing while 1342 00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:49,492 also continuing ever vigilant oversight 1343 00:47:49,492 --> 00:47:51,381 of the Privatized housing program 1344 00:47:51,381 --> 00:47:53,492 through enforcing standards , holding 1345 00:47:53,492 --> 00:47:55,714 providers accountable and ensuring long 1346 00:47:55,714 --> 00:47:57,937 term project sustain sustainability and 1347 00:47:57,937 --> 00:48:00,810 financial viability . The army is also 1348 00:48:00,820 --> 00:48:02,876 fully committed to improving soldier 1349 00:48:02,876 --> 00:48:05,042 quality of life by addressing deferred 1350 00:48:05,042 --> 00:48:07,098 maintenance and under investments in 1351 00:48:07,098 --> 00:48:09,320 unaccompanied housing that was referred 1352 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,376 to in the previous panel even before 1353 00:48:11,376 --> 00:48:13,653 Gao issued , issued its initial report . 1354 00:48:13,653 --> 00:48:15,709 Uh and we had seen the draft earlier 1355 00:48:15,709 --> 00:48:17,709 this year . In the fall of 2022 the 1356 00:48:17,709 --> 00:48:19,709 army took the unprecedented step of 1357 00:48:19,709 --> 00:48:21,487 inspecting every room and every 1358 00:48:21,487 --> 00:48:23,542 barracks building of which there are 1359 00:48:23,542 --> 00:48:26,810 over 6700 buildings to remedy life , uh 1360 00:48:26,820 --> 00:48:28,598 life , health and safety issues 1361 00:48:28,598 --> 00:48:30,820 identified going forward . We are 1362 00:48:30,830 --> 00:48:33,010 committing to spending at least at 1363 00:48:33,020 --> 00:48:34,909 least a billion dollars a year to 1364 00:48:34,909 --> 00:48:37,159 improve barracks over across the army . 1365 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,689 We have also developed an in depth 1366 00:48:39,699 --> 00:48:41,699 barracks resourcing strategy that I 1367 00:48:41,699 --> 00:48:43,921 think was the number one recommendation 1368 00:48:43,921 --> 00:48:45,879 from this field . And this takes a 1369 00:48:45,889 --> 00:48:48,056 holistic approach for improving single 1370 00:48:48,056 --> 00:48:49,611 soldier living conditions . 1371 00:48:49,649 --> 00:48:51,538 Recommendations from the recently 1372 00:48:51,540 --> 00:48:53,707 released a report of military barracks 1373 00:48:53,707 --> 00:48:55,873 will assist us in further refining our 1374 00:48:55,873 --> 00:48:57,484 focus as we continue to work 1375 00:48:57,484 --> 00:48:59,207 initiatives to improve housing 1376 00:48:59,207 --> 00:49:01,300 conditions for our sea , uh single 1377 00:49:01,310 --> 00:49:03,709 junior enlisted population . We are 1378 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,663 also very conscious of the need to 1379 00:49:05,663 --> 00:49:07,886 address the requirements of our reserve 1380 00:49:07,886 --> 00:49:10,108 components . A primary concern for both 1381 00:49:10,108 --> 00:49:12,108 the Army Guard and Reserve is their 1382 00:49:12,108 --> 00:49:14,108 ability to replace poor and failing 1383 00:49:14,108 --> 00:49:16,330 training barracks inventories where the 1384 00:49:16,330 --> 00:49:18,441 average age of this inventory is more 1385 00:49:18,441 --> 00:49:20,219 than 50 years . Both components 1386 00:49:20,219 --> 00:49:22,649 anticipate increasing barracks deficits , 1387 00:49:22,659 --> 00:49:24,560 space deficits as these older 1388 00:49:24,570 --> 00:49:27,360 facilities become uninhabitable , we 1389 00:49:27,370 --> 00:49:29,592 look forward to working uh productively 1390 00:49:29,592 --> 00:49:31,639 with this panel with uh the redness 1391 00:49:31,649 --> 00:49:33,649 subcommittees of the armed services 1392 00:49:33,649 --> 00:49:35,705 committees to improve the quality of 1393 00:49:35,705 --> 00:49:37,705 life for our treasured soldiers and 1394 00:49:37,705 --> 00:49:39,871 their families . And I look forward to 1395 00:49:39,871 --> 00:49:42,038 your questions . Thank you very much . 1396 00:49:42,038 --> 00:49:43,816 Now , I recognize Mr Thompson . 1397 00:49:46,570 --> 00:49:48,348 Thank you , Chairman Bacon , uh 1398 00:49:48,348 --> 00:49:50,570 distinguished members of the panel . Uh 1399 00:49:50,570 --> 00:49:52,792 Thanks for inviting me here today uh to 1400 00:49:52,792 --> 00:49:55,014 testify on the Department of the Navy's 1401 00:49:55,014 --> 00:49:57,070 unaccompanied housing and privatized 1402 00:49:57,070 --> 00:49:59,126 family housing . First , I'd like to 1403 00:49:59,126 --> 00:50:01,126 thank the Government Accountability 1404 00:50:01,126 --> 00:50:03,237 Office for its attention and focus in 1405 00:50:03,237 --> 00:50:05,403 these areas for its recommendations on 1406 00:50:05,403 --> 00:50:07,459 how we can improve the Department of 1407 00:50:07,459 --> 00:50:07,090 the Navy's Unaccompanied housing 1408 00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:10,060 portfolio . In this report for their 1409 00:50:10,070 --> 00:50:12,292 previous and continued work on military 1410 00:50:12,292 --> 00:50:14,429 housing privatization . And for MS 1411 00:50:14,439 --> 00:50:17,120 Field's testimony here today , I'm 1412 00:50:17,129 --> 00:50:19,351 proud to have served more than 20 years 1413 00:50:19,351 --> 00:50:21,185 in the United States Navy , both 1414 00:50:21,185 --> 00:50:23,351 enlisted and later as an officer . And 1415 00:50:23,351 --> 00:50:25,407 I'm humbled to have the privilege to 1416 00:50:25,407 --> 00:50:27,629 continue to serve sailors , marines and 1417 00:50:27,629 --> 00:50:29,962 their families . In my current capacity , 1418 00:50:29,989 --> 00:50:32,310 I've lived aboard ships in birthing 1419 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,219 barges in barracks and in family 1420 00:50:34,229 --> 00:50:37,040 housing , quality of service . Both the 1421 00:50:37,050 --> 00:50:39,320 quality of work environment for our 1422 00:50:39,330 --> 00:50:41,497 sailors and marines and the quality of 1423 00:50:41,500 --> 00:50:43,611 life that our service members deserve 1424 00:50:43,611 --> 00:50:45,840 are a personal issue for me . While the 1425 00:50:45,850 --> 00:50:48,072 department has made meaningful tangible 1426 00:50:48,072 --> 00:50:50,183 progress in improving the quality and 1427 00:50:50,183 --> 00:50:52,350 livability in our privatized housing . 1428 00:50:52,350 --> 00:50:54,406 Thanks in part to Gao , highlighting 1429 00:50:54,406 --> 00:50:56,580 those issues years ago . It's clear 1430 00:50:56,590 --> 00:50:58,757 today , we have significant work ahead 1431 00:50:58,757 --> 00:51:00,979 in our unaccompanied housing to provide 1432 00:51:00,979 --> 00:51:03,860 safe , clean , reliable , 1433 00:51:04,110 --> 00:51:07,139 comfortable and dignified places for 1434 00:51:07,149 --> 00:51:09,316 our sailors and marines to call home . 1435 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,487 We'd expect nothing less for ourselves 1436 00:51:11,487 --> 00:51:13,709 and I expect nothing less from myself . 1437 00:51:14,250 --> 00:51:16,250 I'd like to thank Congress and each 1438 00:51:16,250 --> 00:51:18,417 member of this panel for your resolute 1439 00:51:18,417 --> 00:51:20,583 support of our service members . And I 1440 00:51:20,583 --> 00:51:22,750 look forward to your questions . Thank 1441 00:51:22,750 --> 00:51:24,806 you Mr Thompson . And I recognize Mr 1442 00:51:24,806 --> 00:51:23,929 Moriarty . 1443 00:51:29,739 --> 00:51:31,517 Thank you uh Chairman Bacon and 1444 00:51:31,517 --> 00:51:33,628 distinguished members . Thank you for 1445 00:51:33,628 --> 00:51:35,350 the opportunity to discuss the 1446 00:51:35,350 --> 00:51:37,517 Department of the Air Force's Military 1447 00:51:37,517 --> 00:51:39,683 Housing Privatization Initiative or MH 1448 00:51:39,683 --> 00:51:42,010 P I program . I lived in five different 1449 00:51:42,020 --> 00:51:44,020 government owned homes during my 28 1450 00:51:44,020 --> 00:51:46,469 year military career all been torn down 1451 00:51:46,479 --> 00:51:48,709 and replaced . I left my family twice 1452 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,229 during uh deployments there . And so I 1453 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,406 understand how important housing is uh 1454 00:51:53,406 --> 00:51:55,295 for our members , especially when 1455 00:51:55,295 --> 00:51:57,406 deployed and your loved ones are back 1456 00:51:57,406 --> 00:51:59,860 home . I came back to federal service 1457 00:51:59,870 --> 00:52:01,648 to serve our nation and view my 1458 00:52:01,648 --> 00:52:03,592 responsibility to take care of our 1459 00:52:03,592 --> 00:52:05,759 members and their families as a sacred 1460 00:52:05,759 --> 00:52:07,860 trust , taking care of our airmen 1461 00:52:07,870 --> 00:52:09,759 guardians and their families is a 1462 00:52:09,759 --> 00:52:11,481 fundamental responsibility and 1463 00:52:11,481 --> 00:52:13,648 commitment to the entire Department of 1464 00:52:13,648 --> 00:52:15,814 the Air Force . Our ability to provide 1465 00:52:15,814 --> 00:52:17,759 safe and habitable housing for our 1466 00:52:17,759 --> 00:52:19,703 members is a critical component of 1467 00:52:19,703 --> 00:52:21,592 their quality of life and greatly 1468 00:52:21,592 --> 00:52:23,537 impacts our ability to recruit and 1469 00:52:23,537 --> 00:52:25,759 retain the people . We need to lead the 1470 00:52:25,759 --> 00:52:27,426 department and accelerate the 1471 00:52:27,426 --> 00:52:29,537 transformation . Our secretary has us 1472 00:52:29,537 --> 00:52:32,399 on to to meet our pacing challenge . 1473 00:52:32,649 --> 00:52:34,816 While we have made significant changes 1474 00:52:34,816 --> 00:52:36,760 and improvements in our privatized 1475 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:38,871 housing , we continually evaluate the 1476 00:52:38,871 --> 00:52:40,871 oversight and needs of our airmen , 1477 00:52:40,871 --> 00:52:43,038 guardians and their families to update 1478 00:52:43,038 --> 00:52:44,649 our policies and take action 1479 00:52:44,649 --> 00:52:47,000 accordingly . We empower our tenants 1480 00:52:47,010 --> 00:52:48,899 and commanders to address housing 1481 00:52:48,899 --> 00:52:50,954 challenges at our installations when 1482 00:52:50,954 --> 00:52:53,000 needed and take action to hold our 1483 00:52:53,010 --> 00:52:54,899 privatized housing project owners 1484 00:52:54,899 --> 00:52:56,780 accountable . Additionally , we 1485 00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:58,860 exercise senior level governance and 1486 00:52:58,870 --> 00:53:01,729 program oversight to provide housing 1487 00:53:01,860 --> 00:53:04,360 for our members housing . They deserve . 1488 00:53:04,729 --> 00:53:06,896 We continue our efforts to improve our 1489 00:53:06,896 --> 00:53:08,673 privatized housing portfolio to 1490 00:53:08,673 --> 00:53:10,840 implement the most recent actions , uh 1491 00:53:10,850 --> 00:53:13,540 audit actions that the GAO identified 1492 00:53:13,550 --> 00:53:15,772 and I I too would like to thank the GAO 1493 00:53:15,772 --> 00:53:17,772 for their continued partnership . I 1494 00:53:17,772 --> 00:53:19,883 think in MH P I , the improvements we 1495 00:53:19,883 --> 00:53:21,994 made in large part due to their first 1496 00:53:21,994 --> 00:53:24,050 report , second report , I'm glad to 1497 00:53:24,050 --> 00:53:23,870 see they recognize some of the 1498 00:53:23,879 --> 00:53:25,935 improvements but that there is still 1499 00:53:25,935 --> 00:53:28,520 work to do . Um , I also thank them for 1500 00:53:28,530 --> 00:53:30,070 their recent report on the 1501 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,290 unaccompanied uh dormitories that we 1502 00:53:32,300 --> 00:53:34,522 have in our training dorms because that 1503 00:53:34,522 --> 00:53:36,729 too is an area as clearly uh dictated 1504 00:53:36,739 --> 00:53:38,719 earlier that we need to focus on . 1505 00:53:39,370 --> 00:53:41,426 Similarly . We thank the House Armed 1506 00:53:41,426 --> 00:53:43,314 Services Committee for the MH P I 1507 00:53:43,314 --> 00:53:46,790 reforms set forth in the uh 2020 1508 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,899 through 23 National Defense 1509 00:53:49,909 --> 00:53:52,040 Authorization Act . We've made 1510 00:53:52,050 --> 00:53:53,939 significant progress to implement 1511 00:53:53,939 --> 00:53:56,739 reforms and enhance our oversight and 1512 00:53:56,750 --> 00:53:58,939 hold our MH P I copies comb book . But 1513 00:53:58,949 --> 00:54:00,782 as I have outlined in my written 1514 00:54:00,782 --> 00:54:02,949 testimony , we still have more to do . 1515 00:54:02,949 --> 00:54:04,790 We continue to maintain resident 1516 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:06,770 councils to foster communication 1517 00:54:06,780 --> 00:54:08,836 between residents , installation and 1518 00:54:08,836 --> 00:54:10,947 project owner leadership . And we use 1519 00:54:10,947 --> 00:54:13,110 that feedback for action plans to 1520 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,398 improve resident experiences . Clearly , 1521 00:54:15,398 --> 00:54:17,509 we can apply those same techniques to 1522 00:54:17,509 --> 00:54:19,709 our uh dormitories and tech training 1523 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,530 dorms . Um We also need to ensure that 1524 00:54:22,540 --> 00:54:25,770 our projects remain financially viable 1525 00:54:25,780 --> 00:54:28,159 as was mentioned earlier by the GAO . 1526 00:54:28,169 --> 00:54:30,290 Um that continues to be a concern and 1527 00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:31,967 we also continue to work with 1528 00:54:31,967 --> 00:54:34,389 communities , 80% of our members live 1529 00:54:34,399 --> 00:54:37,110 off , off the installations thereabouts . 1530 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,342 And so we need to continue to work with 1531 00:54:39,342 --> 00:54:41,453 those communities to provide a safe , 1532 00:54:41,453 --> 00:54:43,905 affordable housing for our members . In 1533 00:54:43,915 --> 00:54:45,614 conclusion , I would like to 1534 00:54:45,625 --> 00:54:47,792 communicate that the Department of the 1535 00:54:47,792 --> 00:54:49,792 Air Force is committed to providing 1536 00:54:49,792 --> 00:54:51,736 safe and habitable housing for our 1537 00:54:51,736 --> 00:54:53,847 airmen , guardians and their families 1538 00:54:53,847 --> 00:54:56,014 and our unaccompanied airmen living in 1539 00:54:56,014 --> 00:54:57,903 our dorms . Our leaders are fully 1540 00:54:57,903 --> 00:54:59,958 engaged and only through partnership 1541 00:54:59,958 --> 00:55:02,069 with our privatized um owners , local 1542 00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:04,125 communities and installations can we 1543 00:55:04,125 --> 00:55:06,403 effectively achieve , achieve that end ? 1544 00:55:06,403 --> 00:55:08,625 Look forward to working with you on our 1545 00:55:08,625 --> 00:55:10,792 mutual goal to address quality of life 1546 00:55:10,792 --> 00:55:12,792 for our members and look forward to 1547 00:55:12,792 --> 00:55:14,958 your questions . Thank you very much . 1548 00:55:14,958 --> 00:55:14,030 I want to put more , a little more 1549 00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:15,984 emphasis on military housing . But 1550 00:55:15,984 --> 00:55:18,207 before I do that , I'd like you to each 1551 00:55:18,207 --> 00:55:20,151 maybe address the un unaccompanied 1552 00:55:20,151 --> 00:55:22,570 housing . How the report from the GAO 1553 00:55:22,580 --> 00:55:24,850 was appalling . How do we get there ? 1554 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,409 Who is responsible ? What happened ? 1555 00:55:28,879 --> 00:55:31,459 I'll start off with Miss Colson . Uh 1556 00:55:31,469 --> 00:55:33,302 Thank you for your question . Uh 1557 00:55:33,302 --> 00:55:36,300 Chairman Bacon . Uh I , I have been 1558 00:55:36,310 --> 00:55:38,477 working this portfolio for a very long 1559 00:55:38,477 --> 00:55:41,270 period of time now and I think it's 1560 00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,659 through many years of , of not looking 1561 00:55:44,669 --> 00:55:46,836 closely at the deferred maintenance at 1562 00:55:46,836 --> 00:55:49,300 investments . And so now we are in 1563 00:55:49,310 --> 00:55:52,300 effect playing catch up and this is not 1564 00:55:52,310 --> 00:55:54,489 the report frankly was not news to the 1565 00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:57,300 army . We're well aware and our 1566 00:55:57,310 --> 00:55:59,310 leadership from our secretary , our 1567 00:55:59,310 --> 00:56:02,159 chief of staff on down uh are focusing 1568 00:56:02,169 --> 00:56:05,939 of uh very clearly on quality of life 1569 00:56:05,949 --> 00:56:08,171 and barracks is a piece of that . We've 1570 00:56:08,171 --> 00:56:10,520 done a lot of work already . Um And I 1571 00:56:10,530 --> 00:56:12,530 know that you've probably heard the 1572 00:56:12,530 --> 00:56:14,586 testimony previously . We have uh uh 1573 00:56:14,586 --> 00:56:16,697 over the last several years committed 1574 00:56:16,697 --> 00:56:18,919 more than a billion dollars a year . Uh 1575 00:56:18,919 --> 00:56:20,752 We've done a barracks resourcing 1576 00:56:20,752 --> 00:56:22,863 strategy . So we're looking at how do 1577 00:56:22,863 --> 00:56:24,697 we spend our dollars in the most 1578 00:56:24,697 --> 00:56:27,159 effective manner ? Uh When you see our 1579 00:56:27,169 --> 00:56:29,189 budget that comes uh over uh in 1580 00:56:29,199 --> 00:56:31,560 February , I believe you'll see a multi 1581 00:56:31,570 --> 00:56:34,590 year investment strategy that looks at 1582 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,433 providing additional sustainment 1583 00:56:36,433 --> 00:56:39,060 dollars . As uh M field pointed out , 1584 00:56:39,070 --> 00:56:41,181 we need to sustain the inventory . We 1585 00:56:41,181 --> 00:56:44,320 have uh just as an example . Uh We've 1586 00:56:44,330 --> 00:56:46,620 got in the army uh through our modeling 1587 00:56:46,629 --> 00:56:48,800 efforts , we can see that we have 300 1588 00:56:48,810 --> 00:56:51,032 permanent party barracks buildings that 1589 00:56:51,032 --> 00:56:53,270 are in poor and failing shape across 1590 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,113 our , our fiscal year defense uh 1591 00:56:55,113 --> 00:56:58,375 program from uh 24 to 28 we can address 1592 00:56:58,405 --> 00:57:00,683 100 and 13 of those barracks buildings . 1593 00:57:00,975 --> 00:57:03,344 Uh But at the same time , if we don't 1594 00:57:03,354 --> 00:57:05,465 fully sustain , we'll have 100 and 10 1595 00:57:05,465 --> 00:57:07,632 barracks , existing barracks buildings 1596 00:57:07,632 --> 00:57:09,854 that will move from uh good or adequate 1597 00:57:09,854 --> 00:57:12,076 into the poor and failing category . So 1598 00:57:12,076 --> 00:57:14,187 we don't make much progress unless we 1599 00:57:14,187 --> 00:57:15,798 can ensure that we are doing 1600 00:57:15,798 --> 00:57:17,910 preventative maintenance uh and fully 1601 00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:19,965 sustaining our inventory . I'll just 1602 00:57:19,965 --> 00:57:22,639 point out though , again , we've taken 1603 00:57:22,649 --> 00:57:25,199 the services budgets we've added to it . 1604 00:57:26,399 --> 00:57:29,590 So there is a disconnect here between 1605 00:57:29,939 --> 00:57:32,929 uh each service's budget requests and 1606 00:57:32,939 --> 00:57:34,995 we're adding to it and yet it's been 1607 00:57:34,995 --> 00:57:38,060 not , not been enough . So there's so 1608 00:57:38,070 --> 00:57:40,014 it doesn't add up . It would be my 1609 00:57:40,014 --> 00:57:44,000 point , but Mr Thompson , yeah , 1610 00:57:44,010 --> 00:57:46,232 thank you , Chairman . I uh I'll , I'll 1611 00:57:46,232 --> 00:57:48,590 go back to MS Fields uh testimony . Uh 1612 00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,409 I , I can't speak to uh leadership 1613 00:57:51,419 --> 00:57:53,308 decisions in the past . I've been 1614 00:57:53,308 --> 00:57:55,419 blessed to be in this position for uh 1615 00:57:55,419 --> 00:57:57,308 nine months now and acting in now 1616 00:57:57,308 --> 00:57:59,659 full-time capacity . So I'll , I'll go 1617 00:57:59,669 --> 00:58:01,780 back to MS Field's comments . I think 1618 00:58:02,949 --> 00:58:05,171 there needs to be a realization that we 1619 00:58:05,171 --> 00:58:07,171 we are approaching kind of facility 1620 00:58:07,171 --> 00:58:10,090 criticality . Maybe from the wrong 1621 00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:12,290 angle in the department , we have 1622 00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:14,439 typically looked at mission critical 1623 00:58:14,449 --> 00:58:17,239 facilities and in resource constrained 1624 00:58:17,250 --> 00:58:19,139 environments , the bias is to put 1625 00:58:19,139 --> 00:58:21,139 resources towards the most critical 1626 00:58:21,139 --> 00:58:23,510 installation facilities . The reality 1627 00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,687 is the introduction of a single sailor 1628 00:58:25,687 --> 00:58:29,040 service member into a facility , makes 1629 00:58:29,050 --> 00:58:31,161 it by definition , mission critical . 1630 00:58:31,639 --> 00:58:33,750 The fact that these are their homes , 1631 00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:36,229 makes it mission critical . So in a 1632 00:58:36,239 --> 00:58:38,295 resource constrained environment , I 1633 00:58:38,295 --> 00:58:40,350 think our overall approach to how to 1634 00:58:40,350 --> 00:58:42,530 apply resources , those that we apply 1635 00:58:42,540 --> 00:58:44,707 ourselves , those that the Congress uh 1636 00:58:44,707 --> 00:58:46,651 thankfully has helped us with . Uh 1637 00:58:46,651 --> 00:58:48,762 there needs to be a clean eyed , look 1638 00:58:48,762 --> 00:58:50,770 at that . Um The second part is 1639 00:58:50,780 --> 00:58:53,002 standards that M fields hit on . Yeah , 1640 00:58:53,002 --> 00:58:55,113 there are 13 technical standards . Uh 1641 00:58:55,113 --> 00:58:57,280 Sometimes we use all 13 , sometimes we 1642 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,391 use 10 , 9 , et cetera . Uh This is a 1643 00:58:59,391 --> 00:59:01,613 conversation we've just started with OS 1644 00:59:01,613 --> 00:59:03,939 D since the GAO report came out , you 1645 00:59:03,949 --> 00:59:06,171 know , there needs to be a standard for 1646 00:59:06,171 --> 00:59:08,338 livability , right ? There needs to be 1647 00:59:08,338 --> 00:59:10,338 AAA plain eyed , clear eyed view of 1648 00:59:10,338 --> 00:59:12,505 what the standard is for this place to 1649 00:59:12,505 --> 00:59:14,616 be dignified , safe and comfortable . 1650 00:59:14,616 --> 00:59:16,393 So I do think we have taken our 1651 00:59:16,393 --> 00:59:19,120 expertise in facilities just moved it 1652 00:59:19,129 --> 00:59:22,250 right on over into essentially barracks . 1653 00:59:22,260 --> 00:59:24,371 And then we expect that to , to serve 1654 00:59:24,379 --> 00:59:26,546 us well there . And again , even if we 1655 00:59:26,546 --> 00:59:28,435 trained everyone , even if we had 1656 00:59:28,435 --> 00:59:30,729 consistency in application , um I think 1657 00:59:30,739 --> 00:59:32,906 we're still missing something there in 1658 00:59:32,906 --> 00:59:35,072 terms of the fundamental technical , I 1659 00:59:35,072 --> 00:59:34,899 got about a minute left . I just want 1660 00:59:34,909 --> 00:59:38,260 to let Mr Moriarty . Also speaking out 1661 00:59:38,409 --> 00:59:40,465 quickly . I think the Air Force , we 1662 00:59:40,465 --> 00:59:42,687 did lose the bubble . We used to have a 1663 00:59:42,687 --> 00:59:44,687 dorm focus fund . Uh When you and I 1664 00:59:44,687 --> 00:59:46,687 served in new safety , we went away 1665 00:59:46,687 --> 00:59:48,909 from that and when we centralized a lot 1666 00:59:48,909 --> 00:59:51,020 of our installation management , when 1667 00:59:51,020 --> 00:59:53,242 we put all the money together , went to 1668 00:59:53,242 --> 00:59:55,020 a worst first or then went to a 1669 00:59:55,020 --> 00:59:57,131 condition based thing and prioritized 1670 00:59:57,131 --> 00:59:59,187 everything together . Looking at the 1671 00:59:59,187 --> 01:00:01,242 best . We've gone back now , back to 1672 01:00:01,242 --> 01:00:03,353 the past and we now have a focus fund 1673 01:00:03,353 --> 01:00:05,409 if you will , where we set aside the 1674 01:00:05,409 --> 01:00:07,409 amount of funds we think we need to 1675 01:00:07,409 --> 01:00:09,742 keep the dorms good and accelerate that . 1676 01:00:09,742 --> 01:00:11,909 So they , they do compete within their 1677 01:00:11,909 --> 01:00:13,798 from the top line , but then they 1678 01:00:13,798 --> 01:00:15,742 compete among themselves so we can 1679 01:00:15,742 --> 01:00:17,687 target our investments at , at our 1680 01:00:17,687 --> 01:00:19,909 worst dorms first and where it's needed 1681 01:00:19,909 --> 01:00:21,909 in the portfolio so I'll keep it at 1682 01:00:21,909 --> 01:00:23,965 that Mr Chair . And I , you know , I 1683 01:00:23,965 --> 01:00:26,187 just want , when I was the commander of 1684 01:00:26,187 --> 01:00:25,510 these two installations , I had four 1685 01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,389 stars walking around our dorms . If I 1686 01:00:28,399 --> 01:00:30,455 would have had it that way , I would 1687 01:00:30,455 --> 01:00:30,300 have got fired . I just don't 1688 01:00:30,310 --> 01:00:32,588 understand what happened over 10 years , 1689 01:00:32,588 --> 01:00:34,699 12 years that where this fell off the 1690 01:00:34,699 --> 01:00:37,429 radar . And so we gotta put it back on 1691 01:00:37,439 --> 01:00:41,030 the radar and it's mission critical and 1692 01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,870 essential . But with that , I , I got 1693 01:00:43,879 --> 01:00:46,020 recognizing Miss Jacobs who's serving 1694 01:00:46,030 --> 01:00:48,310 as the ranking member . Thank you , Mr 1695 01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,487 Chair . Thank you all for being here . 1696 01:00:50,487 --> 01:00:52,487 Um First , I , I wanted to actually 1697 01:00:52,487 --> 01:00:54,487 follow up on a question , I'd asked 1698 01:00:54,487 --> 01:00:57,610 Miss Field . Um why was Gao unable to 1699 01:00:57,620 --> 01:00:59,731 find out if the services were meeting 1700 01:00:59,731 --> 01:01:03,439 the 5% requirement of using FSRM for 1701 01:01:03,449 --> 01:01:04,290 barracks ? 1702 01:01:07,790 --> 01:01:10,080 I'll go . Uh Yeah , yeah , that I , I 1703 01:01:10,090 --> 01:01:13,120 took a note to myself . Uh We , we , we 1704 01:01:13,129 --> 01:01:15,240 uh definitively within the Department 1705 01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:17,462 of the Navy know that uh we are meeting 1706 01:01:17,462 --> 01:01:20,409 the 5% minimum investment floor of the 1707 01:01:20,419 --> 01:01:22,252 plant , replacement value of the 1708 01:01:22,252 --> 01:01:24,308 facilities . I think Navy and Marine 1709 01:01:24,308 --> 01:01:26,419 Corps combined . That's a little over 1710 01:01:26,419 --> 01:01:29,629 $360 million . Uh admittedly modestly 1711 01:01:29,639 --> 01:01:31,699 above the 5% floor . So , so that 1712 01:01:31,709 --> 01:01:34,010 information is available strictly from 1713 01:01:34,020 --> 01:01:36,270 a restoration , modernization and 1714 01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,969 sustainment perspective . Uh And so how 1715 01:01:38,979 --> 01:01:41,146 that wasn't made available through the 1716 01:01:41,146 --> 01:01:43,479 department and to miss Fields . Uh I'll , 1717 01:01:43,479 --> 01:01:46,649 I'll take that for action . Uh and I , 1718 01:01:46,659 --> 01:01:49,050 I agree , we also have done our 1719 01:01:49,060 --> 01:01:51,004 homework on our calculations and I 1720 01:01:51,004 --> 01:01:52,782 think there was a , between the 1721 01:01:52,782 --> 01:01:54,949 military departments , a little bit of 1722 01:01:54,949 --> 01:01:56,838 a difference of opinion on how we 1723 01:01:56,838 --> 01:01:58,782 define plant replacement value . I 1724 01:01:58,782 --> 01:02:00,782 don't know that we ever came to any 1725 01:02:00,782 --> 01:02:02,838 conclusion , but the army feels also 1726 01:02:02,838 --> 01:02:04,949 that we have met that requirement uh 1727 01:02:04,959 --> 01:02:07,070 and have provided that information to 1728 01:02:07,070 --> 01:02:09,830 OS D . Thank you , Miss Jacobs . Ok . 1729 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,951 Thank you . And you know , one of the 1730 01:02:11,951 --> 01:02:14,199 things we hear is that part of the 1731 01:02:14,209 --> 01:02:15,987 problem is that this funding is 1732 01:02:15,987 --> 01:02:18,153 competing against other FSRM funding . 1733 01:02:18,300 --> 01:02:20,360 Would it be helpful if Congress 1734 01:02:20,370 --> 01:02:22,939 mandated this funding be fenced off 1735 01:02:22,949 --> 01:02:26,030 only for barracks or , or I guess why 1736 01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:27,929 has the department been unable to 1737 01:02:27,929 --> 01:02:31,030 actually just do that themselves ? Yeah , 1738 01:02:31,340 --> 01:02:33,007 I would start with uh for the 1739 01:02:33,007 --> 01:02:34,618 department uh personally and 1740 01:02:34,620 --> 01:02:36,842 professionally . I like the flexibility 1741 01:02:36,842 --> 01:02:38,953 within the O and M account to be able 1742 01:02:38,953 --> 01:02:41,176 to lean into barracks when we want to . 1743 01:02:41,176 --> 01:02:43,287 I , I don't think it would help us to 1744 01:02:43,287 --> 01:02:45,120 put it in like , say the housing 1745 01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,176 account where that's also restricted 1746 01:02:47,176 --> 01:02:46,830 and it's , and it's competing against 1747 01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:48,951 housing . I think leaving it where it 1748 01:02:48,951 --> 01:02:51,173 is allows us the flexibility within the 1749 01:02:51,173 --> 01:02:53,396 departments to do that . There may be a 1750 01:02:53,396 --> 01:02:55,729 difference of opinion in the department . 1751 01:02:55,729 --> 01:02:58,007 But I think for max flexibility for us , 1752 01:02:58,007 --> 01:02:57,844 we like that and I'd just like to say 1753 01:02:57,854 --> 01:03:00,076 that we do know what our , our 5% floor 1754 01:03:00,076 --> 01:03:02,298 is . We are meeting that within the Air 1755 01:03:02,298 --> 01:03:05,145 Force . Um OK . Well , we all like 1756 01:03:05,155 --> 01:03:07,004 flexibility but uh I think we're 1757 01:03:07,014 --> 01:03:09,070 clearly seeing that the barracks are 1758 01:03:09,070 --> 01:03:10,903 not being invested in . So maybe 1759 01:03:10,903 --> 01:03:12,792 flexibility is not the , the only 1760 01:03:12,792 --> 01:03:16,239 priority here , you know . Uh Thank you 1761 01:03:16,250 --> 01:03:18,250 for that question . I , I do have a 1762 01:03:18,250 --> 01:03:20,590 couple of comments . Uh As I alluded to , 1763 01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:22,711 we're looking at uh how we might fund 1764 01:03:22,711 --> 01:03:24,822 sustainment in the future . Should we 1765 01:03:24,822 --> 01:03:26,822 go to a higher percentage ? We will 1766 01:03:26,822 --> 01:03:28,933 definitely issue guidance to our , to 1767 01:03:28,933 --> 01:03:31,044 the field that that tells them how to 1768 01:03:31,044 --> 01:03:33,267 spend those dollars . I also would like 1769 01:03:33,267 --> 01:03:35,378 to say that within our program , we , 1770 01:03:35,378 --> 01:03:37,378 you might not see a lot of projects 1771 01:03:37,378 --> 01:03:39,600 that are military construction projects 1772 01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:39,469 for barracks that they , we , we 1773 01:03:39,479 --> 01:03:42,199 primarily use milon for deficit uh for , 1774 01:03:42,209 --> 01:03:44,376 for additional spaces , spaces that we 1775 01:03:44,376 --> 01:03:46,709 need for things like stationing actions . 1776 01:03:46,709 --> 01:03:48,765 But I will say that about 75% of our 1777 01:03:48,765 --> 01:03:51,080 restoration and modernization program 1778 01:03:51,090 --> 01:03:53,389 is already dedicated to barracks . As a 1779 01:03:53,399 --> 01:03:55,510 matter of fact , if you talk with the 1780 01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:57,621 army G three , their concern would be 1781 01:03:57,621 --> 01:03:59,788 more along the lines of having dollars 1782 01:03:59,788 --> 01:04:01,788 available to take care of readiness 1783 01:04:01,788 --> 01:04:04,010 facilities . So it is very much a 1784 01:04:04,020 --> 01:04:07,149 balance and how we uh work within . In 1785 01:04:07,159 --> 01:04:09,215 my case , the army to ensure that we 1786 01:04:09,215 --> 01:04:11,215 are able to balance quality of life 1787 01:04:11,215 --> 01:04:12,826 requirements with those with 1788 01:04:12,826 --> 01:04:15,048 modernization as well as as readiness . 1789 01:04:15,048 --> 01:04:17,270 Uh But we already have uh a significant 1790 01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:19,270 contribution to quality of life for 1791 01:04:19,270 --> 01:04:21,639 barracks . Yeah , congressman , I'll go , 1792 01:04:21,649 --> 01:04:23,482 I'll go quickly to your point uh 1793 01:04:23,482 --> 01:04:25,205 flexibility to do what right , 1794 01:04:25,205 --> 01:04:27,427 flexibility to , to run barracks that , 1795 01:04:27,427 --> 01:04:29,639 that result in what the Gao found . Um 1796 01:04:29,649 --> 01:04:32,250 So , so I think that the threshold or a 1797 01:04:32,260 --> 01:04:34,371 floor uh that the Congress has put in 1798 01:04:34,371 --> 01:04:36,500 place is helpful . Uh My personal 1799 01:04:36,510 --> 01:04:38,288 experience has been that , that 1800 01:04:38,288 --> 01:04:40,399 absolute fencing can be problematic , 1801 01:04:40,399 --> 01:04:42,621 not from a decision based perspective , 1802 01:04:42,621 --> 01:04:44,677 but I think folks kind of back off a 1803 01:04:44,677 --> 01:04:46,677 fenced accounts and don't challenge 1804 01:04:46,677 --> 01:04:48,788 themselves or assumptions with what's 1805 01:04:48,788 --> 01:04:51,010 in those appropriations . And lastly to 1806 01:04:51,010 --> 01:04:53,121 the point about privatized barracks , 1807 01:04:53,121 --> 01:04:55,066 you know , that , that essentially 1808 01:04:55,066 --> 01:04:57,260 commits us to a a should fund for what 1809 01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:59,899 right looks like and by definition 1810 01:04:59,909 --> 01:05:02,219 becomes a must fund in the M PS 1811 01:05:02,310 --> 01:05:04,532 accounts uh which produces the outcomes 1812 01:05:04,532 --> 01:05:06,643 that Miss Field saw on the privatized 1813 01:05:06,643 --> 01:05:08,866 barracks . Thank you . And , and really 1814 01:05:08,866 --> 01:05:10,921 quickly with my last 40 seconds , Mr 1815 01:05:10,921 --> 01:05:12,754 Thompson , I know the Navy has a 1816 01:05:12,754 --> 01:05:14,866 process in which you issue letters of 1817 01:05:14,866 --> 01:05:16,921 concern to housing partners . Um How 1818 01:05:16,921 --> 01:05:19,088 many of these letters have been issued 1819 01:05:19,088 --> 01:05:21,199 and have any of them resulted in cure 1820 01:05:21,199 --> 01:05:23,421 notices or defaults ? And uh Mr Chair , 1821 01:05:23,421 --> 01:05:25,532 I'd like to enter into the record two 1822 01:05:25,532 --> 01:05:27,754 articles about some of the issues we're 1823 01:05:27,754 --> 01:05:27,709 having in San Diego following more than 1824 01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:29,552 50 lawsuits taken up by military 1825 01:05:29,552 --> 01:05:32,699 families without objection . Sword . 1826 01:05:33,610 --> 01:05:35,832 Yeah . Congresswoman I'll , I'll answer 1827 01:05:35,832 --> 01:05:37,832 quickly to my knowledge . There has 1828 01:05:37,832 --> 01:05:39,999 been one such letter of caution issued 1829 01:05:39,999 --> 01:05:42,909 uh to date and I am not aware of uh a 1830 01:05:42,919 --> 01:05:44,530 removal action based on it . 1831 01:05:47,090 --> 01:05:49,201 Thank you , Miss Jacobs . I recognize 1832 01:05:49,201 --> 01:05:51,423 Miss Higgins . Thank you , Mr Chair . I 1833 01:05:51,423 --> 01:05:53,257 just wanted to ask a couple more 1834 01:05:53,257 --> 01:05:55,368 questions about the privatized family 1835 01:05:55,368 --> 01:05:57,257 housing and just reading the ga a 1836 01:05:57,257 --> 01:05:59,368 report . So we have 99% of our family 1837 01:05:59,368 --> 01:06:01,590 housing is now privatized . So that's , 1838 01:06:01,590 --> 01:06:03,590 we're almost all the way there . So 1839 01:06:03,590 --> 01:06:05,939 it's come a long way . Uh And what were 1840 01:06:05,949 --> 01:06:07,393 the biggest challenges of 1841 01:06:07,393 --> 01:06:09,227 implementation when we made that 1842 01:06:09,227 --> 01:06:11,282 decision of ? We're , we're gonna go 1843 01:06:11,282 --> 01:06:13,393 privatized . I think it's been a work 1844 01:06:13,393 --> 01:06:15,505 in progress and I'm , you know , I've 1845 01:06:15,505 --> 01:06:15,320 only been here a limited time really 1846 01:06:15,330 --> 01:06:17,386 paying attention . But what did that 1847 01:06:17,386 --> 01:06:19,052 look like that transform that 1848 01:06:19,052 --> 01:06:22,590 transformation ? I , I'll , I'll jump 1849 01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,000 in um uh congresswoman and go first . 1850 01:06:25,010 --> 01:06:27,121 It was a long time ago for the army . 1851 01:06:27,121 --> 01:06:30,040 Our projects are now approaching 2025 1852 01:06:30,050 --> 01:06:32,280 even 30 years in length . And our 1853 01:06:32,290 --> 01:06:34,457 oldest project project is , is uh Fort 1854 01:06:34,457 --> 01:06:36,820 Carson . Uh But uh the , the , the 1855 01:06:36,830 --> 01:06:39,560 transition uh uh goes along the lines 1856 01:06:39,570 --> 01:06:41,639 of moving an owned inventory to , to 1857 01:06:41,649 --> 01:06:44,169 privatized housing provider , putting 1858 01:06:44,179 --> 01:06:46,401 in place a ground lease , some of those 1859 01:06:46,401 --> 01:06:48,401 original ground leases that we have 1860 01:06:48,401 --> 01:06:51,459 still exist . Uh So we are just now in 1861 01:06:51,469 --> 01:06:54,449 the process of looking at uh changing 1862 01:06:54,459 --> 01:06:56,719 the ground leases to include the 1863 01:06:56,729 --> 01:06:58,785 statutory guidance that was provided 1864 01:06:58,785 --> 01:07:00,673 back in 2012 . We need to include 1865 01:07:00,673 --> 01:07:02,785 things like enforcement provisions as 1866 01:07:02,785 --> 01:07:04,951 well as uh things like the Davis Bacon 1867 01:07:04,951 --> 01:07:07,007 Act uh uh provisions . So , so we're 1868 01:07:07,007 --> 01:07:08,951 looking now at strengthening these 1869 01:07:08,951 --> 01:07:11,062 ground leases , we have learned a lot 1870 01:07:11,062 --> 01:07:13,229 in the last 25 years . We've learned , 1871 01:07:13,229 --> 01:07:15,451 for example , that , you know , perhaps 1872 01:07:15,451 --> 01:07:17,673 we didn't get it right in the beginning 1873 01:07:17,673 --> 01:07:17,403 with respect to the amount of equity 1874 01:07:17,413 --> 01:07:19,469 that we put into these projects . Uh 1875 01:07:19,469 --> 01:07:21,580 And our projects are structured all a 1876 01:07:21,580 --> 01:07:23,691 little bit differently , ours or more 1877 01:07:23,691 --> 01:07:25,913 similar than the Air Force . But we did 1878 01:07:25,913 --> 01:07:28,080 in the very beginning attempt to uh uh 1879 01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:30,375 provide an inventory to that provider 1880 01:07:30,385 --> 01:07:33,395 that that was a healthy inventory . 1881 01:07:33,406 --> 01:07:35,976 However , we have 19,000 legacy homes 1882 01:07:35,986 --> 01:07:37,930 that were , that are older , older 1883 01:07:37,930 --> 01:07:40,208 housing stock that are still out there , 1884 01:07:40,208 --> 01:07:42,264 that we need to uh to take a look at 1885 01:07:42,264 --> 01:07:44,208 how we uh how we renovate , how we 1886 01:07:44,208 --> 01:07:46,335 recapitalize . Uh I'll turn this over 1887 01:07:46,345 --> 01:07:48,639 to you . Yeah . Yeah , I'll go , I'll 1888 01:07:48,649 --> 01:07:50,816 go quickly . I think , consistent with 1889 01:07:50,816 --> 01:07:52,982 what uh Miss Colson said , I think the 1890 01:07:52,982 --> 01:07:55,205 first period was marked with the actual 1891 01:07:55,205 --> 01:07:57,316 effort of taking the , the government 1892 01:07:57,316 --> 01:07:57,030 owned inventory , getting the land 1893 01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,310 leases done , essentially recap a 1894 01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:01,487 significant recapitalization effort of 1895 01:08:01,487 --> 01:08:03,899 those houses . Um I'll go back to the 1896 01:08:03,909 --> 01:08:06,131 GAO reports . I think what we found was 1897 01:08:06,131 --> 01:08:08,353 once that effort was done and they were 1898 01:08:08,353 --> 01:08:10,131 now in the hands of the private 1899 01:08:10,131 --> 01:08:11,853 companies , there was almost a 1900 01:08:11,853 --> 01:08:14,076 sentiment that they had been outsourced 1901 01:08:14,076 --> 01:08:16,242 at that point and hence maybe the lack 1902 01:08:16,242 --> 01:08:18,298 of oversight that was required . And 1903 01:08:18,298 --> 01:08:20,353 again , Gao highlighted that several 1904 01:08:20,353 --> 01:08:20,080 years ago . And I think we'll talk 1905 01:08:20,089 --> 01:08:22,256 today about much of the progress we've 1906 01:08:22,256 --> 01:08:24,367 made since then . Uh , I do just want 1907 01:08:24,367 --> 01:08:26,033 to offer a , as we talk about 1908 01:08:26,033 --> 01:08:27,811 privatized housing and then the 1909 01:08:27,811 --> 01:08:30,145 possibility of privatized barracks that , 1910 01:08:30,145 --> 01:08:32,200 um , we've learned lessons about not 1911 01:08:32,209 --> 01:08:34,098 disconnecting and maintaining our 1912 01:08:34,098 --> 01:08:36,265 oversight and accountability . I think 1913 01:08:36,265 --> 01:08:37,820 we apply those today in the 1914 01:08:37,820 --> 01:08:39,876 unaccompanied barracks . And I think 1915 01:08:39,876 --> 01:08:41,987 the scale is a completely different , 1916 01:08:41,987 --> 01:08:44,153 uh , issue as well . Several , several 1917 01:08:44,153 --> 01:08:46,209 tens of thousands of homes versus uh 1918 01:08:46,719 --> 01:08:48,886 currently four buildings . And ideally 1919 01:08:48,886 --> 01:08:51,179 a lot more . Yeah , thank you , ma'am , 1920 01:08:51,979 --> 01:08:54,035 Congressman . I'd say that our later 1921 01:08:54,035 --> 01:08:56,201 projects , we applied the lessons that 1922 01:08:56,201 --> 01:08:58,423 we learned on our earlier ones . We did 1923 01:08:58,423 --> 01:09:00,479 it over a decade span or so . And um 1924 01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:02,423 the problems that we're having now 1925 01:09:02,423 --> 01:09:04,535 financially with our projects are the 1926 01:09:04,535 --> 01:09:06,646 earlier projects where they were just 1927 01:09:06,646 --> 01:09:08,757 poorer deals for a bunch of reasons . 1928 01:09:08,757 --> 01:09:10,868 Um I think um a lot of the lessons we 1929 01:09:10,868 --> 01:09:13,035 learned could be applied to any future 1930 01:09:13,035 --> 01:09:15,201 privatization . I would agree with him 1931 01:09:15,201 --> 01:09:14,850 that , you know , when you privatize , 1932 01:09:14,859 --> 01:09:17,081 I think commanders took the eye off the 1933 01:09:17,081 --> 01:09:19,192 ball . We've worked to strengthen our 1934 01:09:19,192 --> 01:09:21,303 commander involvement and uh Chairman 1935 01:09:21,303 --> 01:09:23,303 Bacon's Point . We have a four star 1936 01:09:23,303 --> 01:09:25,637 twice a year gathering where we look at , 1937 01:09:25,637 --> 01:09:27,748 we have a housing council at the four 1938 01:09:27,748 --> 01:09:29,970 star level with them looking at it . We 1939 01:09:29,970 --> 01:09:32,192 have a two star level . We also empower 1940 01:09:32,192 --> 01:09:34,359 our installation commanders through um 1941 01:09:34,359 --> 01:09:34,254 training . We give what we call an HP 1942 01:09:34,265 --> 01:09:36,321 101 and we hold them accountable . I 1943 01:09:36,321 --> 01:09:38,376 think for the most part , commanders 1944 01:09:38,376 --> 01:09:38,274 felt like it wasn't Commander's 1945 01:09:38,285 --> 01:09:40,341 business anymore . And that was made 1946 01:09:40,341 --> 01:09:43,064 clear in the 2018 , 2019 business . So , 1947 01:09:43,254 --> 01:09:45,310 um you know , what did we learn ? We 1948 01:09:45,310 --> 01:09:46,921 learned that , you know , by 1949 01:09:46,921 --> 01:09:48,865 financially financing these things 1950 01:09:48,865 --> 01:09:51,087 doesn't mean you can walk away from the 1951 01:09:51,087 --> 01:09:53,254 deals . You still have a part and also 1952 01:09:53,254 --> 01:09:55,421 reading the gau report it , there's 14 1953 01:09:55,421 --> 01:09:57,532 private housing companies then that , 1954 01:09:57,532 --> 01:09:59,532 that provide this privatized family 1955 01:09:59,532 --> 01:10:01,754 housing . Is , does that work ? Ok . Is 1956 01:10:01,754 --> 01:10:03,921 it , is it disjointed at all ? Is it , 1957 01:10:03,921 --> 01:10:06,032 are they , are this , is there enough 1958 01:10:06,032 --> 01:10:08,087 standardization ? Uh Is it , is that 1959 01:10:08,087 --> 01:10:09,921 good model where we have lots of 1960 01:10:09,921 --> 01:10:09,899 different companies doing different 1961 01:10:09,910 --> 01:10:11,910 things or uh because I just want to 1962 01:10:11,910 --> 01:10:14,077 take our lessons learned from the this 1963 01:10:14,077 --> 01:10:16,188 decade that we've learned good things 1964 01:10:16,188 --> 01:10:18,259 and apply it to , to unaccompanied 1965 01:10:18,270 --> 01:10:20,437 housing and how we can , you know , if 1966 01:10:20,437 --> 01:10:22,381 we do go that route , implement it 1967 01:10:22,381 --> 01:10:24,381 correctly . Uh I think there's more 1968 01:10:24,381 --> 01:10:26,326 standardization now than there was 1969 01:10:26,326 --> 01:10:28,548 previously . There is an organization , 1970 01:10:28,548 --> 01:10:30,548 the military Housing uh association 1971 01:10:30,548 --> 01:10:32,381 that tries to pull these , these 1972 01:10:32,381 --> 01:10:32,330 providers together and get them to see 1973 01:10:32,339 --> 01:10:34,395 things the same way . We are working 1974 01:10:34,395 --> 01:10:36,450 right now on a , a quality assurance 1975 01:10:36,450 --> 01:10:38,672 quality control plan . They are with us 1976 01:10:38,672 --> 01:10:41,750 to , to uh use across our six , the 1977 01:10:41,759 --> 01:10:44,470 army's got six providers . So we are 1978 01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:46,090 looking , it is important to 1979 01:10:46,090 --> 01:10:48,257 standardize and , and we're looking to 1980 01:10:48,257 --> 01:10:50,368 do that in a better way . And I think 1981 01:10:50,368 --> 01:10:52,701 the legislation from 2020 on has helped . 1982 01:10:52,701 --> 01:10:55,680 Ok . Thank you , Miss , I recognize uh 1983 01:10:55,689 --> 01:10:57,745 M Strickland from Washington State . 1984 01:10:57,799 --> 01:11:00,021 Thank you . And Miss Jacobs pointed out 1985 01:11:00,021 --> 01:11:02,379 to me that our two das are Don Davis 1986 01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:05,930 and Don Bacon Davis Bacon . So , so 1987 01:11:05,939 --> 01:11:07,995 thank you to our witnesses for being 1988 01:11:07,995 --> 01:11:09,995 here today and I especially want to 1989 01:11:09,995 --> 01:11:12,161 thank MS Coulson . Um You have been so 1990 01:11:12,161 --> 01:11:14,328 accessible with my office and my staff 1991 01:11:14,328 --> 01:11:16,495 for the issues on JB LM . So I want to 1992 01:11:16,495 --> 01:11:15,950 commend you for your leadership and 1993 01:11:15,959 --> 01:11:17,959 just always having an open door and 1994 01:11:17,959 --> 01:11:20,015 being there for us . So , um I wanna 1995 01:11:20,015 --> 01:11:22,181 talk a bit about um being creative and 1996 01:11:22,181 --> 01:11:24,348 how we address the housing supply . So 1997 01:11:24,348 --> 01:11:26,459 regarding solutions to addressing the 1998 01:11:26,459 --> 01:11:28,570 housing backlog at joint base , Lewis 1999 01:11:28,570 --> 01:11:30,570 mccord , I think that creativity is 2000 01:11:30,570 --> 01:11:32,737 important here . And one idea that I'm 2001 01:11:32,737 --> 01:11:34,903 starting to hear about is the enhanced 2002 01:11:34,903 --> 01:11:37,070 use lease . So if you could number one 2003 01:11:37,070 --> 01:11:39,549 explain in layman's terms , what that 2004 01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:41,393 means and then really answer the 2005 01:11:41,393 --> 01:11:43,504 question . If the garrison identified 2006 01:11:43,504 --> 01:11:45,727 some land for an enhanced use lease for 2007 01:11:45,727 --> 01:11:47,782 housing development . Is it required 2008 01:11:47,782 --> 01:11:49,838 for the military housing provider to 2009 01:11:49,838 --> 01:11:51,782 develop the project or can another 2010 01:11:51,782 --> 01:11:55,089 private developer use that lease ? Uh 2011 01:11:55,100 --> 01:11:57,160 Thank you for that question . Uh 2012 01:11:57,169 --> 01:11:59,500 Congresswoman Stricklin . Uh And I 2013 01:11:59,509 --> 01:12:01,731 enjoy , I enjoy working with your staff 2014 01:12:01,731 --> 01:12:04,939 uh as well very much . Uh I , I would 2015 01:12:04,950 --> 01:12:06,894 like to talk about Eu Ls . We have 2016 01:12:06,894 --> 01:12:08,950 never used an enhanced use lease for 2017 01:12:08,950 --> 01:12:10,950 housing . Uh , but we have , it's a 2018 01:12:10,950 --> 01:12:13,549 real estate . Uh , the statute is 10 US 2019 01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:15,990 C 26 67 . It's , it's a real estate 2020 01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,419 statute . Uh We have , if we've got 2021 01:12:18,430 --> 01:12:20,439 property that is not access to a 2022 01:12:20,450 --> 01:12:22,728 military department , to the army , uh , 2023 01:12:22,728 --> 01:12:24,950 but we don't have necessarily immediate 2024 01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:27,061 use for it . We can , we can use that 2025 01:12:27,061 --> 01:12:29,061 property for other purposes . So we 2026 01:12:29,061 --> 01:12:31,228 have to take a look at that property . 2027 01:12:31,228 --> 01:12:33,450 We have to understand the environmental 2028 01:12:33,450 --> 01:12:32,700 condition of the property . We would 2029 01:12:32,709 --> 01:12:34,931 have to do , uh we would have to comply 2030 01:12:34,931 --> 01:12:37,720 with NP . Uh And then we would look at 2031 01:12:37,750 --> 01:12:39,917 uh what , what we might be able to use 2032 01:12:39,917 --> 01:12:42,609 that for . Uh It is not necessary that 2033 01:12:42,620 --> 01:12:44,620 we would use the privatized housing 2034 01:12:44,620 --> 01:12:47,290 provider that it , that is uh uh serves 2035 01:12:47,299 --> 01:12:49,629 uh JB LM at this moment , uh We would 2036 01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:51,696 compete , we'd be able to compete uh 2037 01:12:51,696 --> 01:12:53,807 for the use of that property . Uh And 2038 01:12:53,807 --> 01:12:55,473 then we would receive in kind 2039 01:12:55,473 --> 01:12:57,810 consideration uh for , for the , the 2040 01:12:57,819 --> 01:13:00,229 use uh as part of an enhanced use lease . 2041 01:13:00,370 --> 01:13:02,592 So that's the way it works . We do have 2042 01:13:02,592 --> 01:13:04,814 several . The Air Force has many uh and 2043 01:13:04,814 --> 01:13:06,870 may be able to , to help inform this 2044 01:13:06,870 --> 01:13:10,020 discussion . Uh But uh I uh um if 2045 01:13:10,029 --> 01:13:12,251 you've got any other questions , I'd be 2046 01:13:12,251 --> 01:13:14,251 happy to , you know , sit down with 2047 01:13:14,251 --> 01:13:13,959 your staff and run through this with 2048 01:13:13,970 --> 01:13:16,192 them . All right . Well , Mr Moti , can 2049 01:13:16,192 --> 01:13:18,414 you talk a bit about what the Air Force 2050 01:13:18,414 --> 01:13:18,279 is doing and how that's worked out . 2051 01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:21,000 Yes , ma'am . So um typically , you're 2052 01:13:21,009 --> 01:13:23,065 right . Typically our clauses say we 2053 01:13:23,065 --> 01:13:25,009 don't compete with them , but in a 2054 01:13:25,009 --> 01:13:27,120 market like that , it would work , we 2055 01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:27,000 have enhanced use leases like down at 2056 01:13:27,250 --> 01:13:29,419 where we have mixed use . So we might 2057 01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:31,486 have apartments on top development . 2058 01:13:31,486 --> 01:13:33,597 We're working on one right now and fe 2059 01:13:33,597 --> 01:13:35,708 one would be another mixed use . It's 2060 01:13:35,708 --> 01:13:37,263 in , it's in the process of 2061 01:13:37,263 --> 01:13:39,374 negotiations , but that would produce 2062 01:13:39,374 --> 01:13:41,541 housing . The win there is while we're 2063 01:13:41,541 --> 01:13:43,652 not involved in who gets a sign there 2064 01:13:43,652 --> 01:13:45,874 and how it works . It would be a market 2065 01:13:45,874 --> 01:13:47,986 driven um rent , right ? And , but it 2066 01:13:47,986 --> 01:13:50,319 it helps in those communities too where , 2067 01:13:50,319 --> 01:13:50,226 where especially at Fe Warren where 2068 01:13:50,235 --> 01:13:52,666 they lack available for affordable 2069 01:13:52,675 --> 01:13:54,731 housing . Is it , it's a win win for 2070 01:13:54,731 --> 01:13:56,842 the community and it , and so we'd be 2071 01:13:56,842 --> 01:13:58,897 glad to share more information um as 2072 01:13:58,897 --> 01:14:00,731 you'd like ma'am , but that is a 2073 01:14:00,731 --> 01:14:02,508 possibility to increase housing 2074 01:14:02,508 --> 01:14:04,675 availability where there's a developer 2075 01:14:04,675 --> 01:14:06,842 that can do it most of the time . What 2076 01:14:06,842 --> 01:14:08,842 we found at Altus Air Force Base is 2077 01:14:08,842 --> 01:14:11,262 where the state and the city put money 2078 01:14:11,271 --> 01:14:13,271 aside for developers . They've been 2079 01:14:13,271 --> 01:14:15,438 able to create affordable housing that 2080 01:14:15,438 --> 01:14:17,549 our airmen would , would want to live 2081 01:14:17,549 --> 01:14:19,715 in , but they had to put money into it 2082 01:14:19,715 --> 01:14:21,882 to make that development happen . That 2083 01:14:21,882 --> 01:14:23,993 wasn't on our land . But it's similar 2084 01:14:23,993 --> 01:14:23,901 to what you're talking about of in most 2085 01:14:23,912 --> 01:14:26,312 of these deals . We can offer land and 2086 01:14:26,321 --> 01:14:28,543 we have to get fair market value and we 2087 01:14:28,543 --> 01:14:30,654 have to compete it . But that's not a 2088 01:14:30,654 --> 01:14:32,765 very high bar , quite frankly , a lot 2089 01:14:32,765 --> 01:14:34,765 of our land where we are unlike the 2090 01:14:34,765 --> 01:14:36,988 Navy is not what I would call expensive 2091 01:14:36,988 --> 01:14:39,043 land uh in those areas comparatively 2092 01:14:39,043 --> 01:14:41,210 over . No great . And I love the um as 2093 01:14:41,210 --> 01:14:43,210 a former mayor , I love the idea of 2094 01:14:43,210 --> 01:14:45,432 mixed use because you're often building 2095 01:14:45,432 --> 01:14:44,850 housing and then you're building 2096 01:14:44,859 --> 01:14:46,748 amenities with it as well . So it 2097 01:14:46,748 --> 01:14:48,859 improves the quality of life . So our 2098 01:14:48,859 --> 01:14:50,803 office is definitely interested in 2099 01:14:50,803 --> 01:14:50,689 learning more about that . And thank 2100 01:14:50,700 --> 01:14:52,922 you for your testimony . Are you back , 2101 01:14:52,922 --> 01:14:54,811 Mr Chair ? Thank you , Mr Trick . 2102 01:14:54,811 --> 01:14:57,033 Recognize now Mr Alford from Missouri , 2103 01:14:57,033 --> 01:14:59,256 thank you , General Bacon . I just want 2104 01:14:59,256 --> 01:15:01,144 to say first off how much uh I am 2105 01:15:01,144 --> 01:15:03,311 honored to be on this panel . Uh I , I 2106 01:15:03,311 --> 01:15:06,000 just think this is long overdue and uh 2107 01:15:06,009 --> 01:15:08,065 I'm not a veteran , but I've been to 2108 01:15:08,065 --> 01:15:09,953 Fort Leonard Wood . I've seen the 2109 01:15:09,953 --> 01:15:12,176 barracks there , I've seen the issues . 2110 01:15:12,176 --> 01:15:14,729 Um Miss Carl Coulson and I talked about 2111 01:15:14,740 --> 01:15:17,450 this yesterday on the phone . Uh We've 2112 01:15:17,459 --> 01:15:19,681 got to get this right , you know , uh I 2113 01:15:19,681 --> 01:15:21,848 don't know about you , General Bacon , 2114 01:15:21,848 --> 01:15:24,126 but I have constituents calling me now . 2115 01:15:24,126 --> 01:15:26,015 It's like we're heading towards a 2116 01:15:26,015 --> 01:15:28,237 shutdown . Our military is not going to 2117 01:15:28,237 --> 01:15:28,069 get paid , but we're still going to 2118 01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:30,600 fund and pay the Ukrainian military . 2119 01:15:30,770 --> 01:15:32,937 And this report comes out with the Gao 2120 01:15:32,937 --> 01:15:35,169 this week with these horrible pictures 2121 01:15:35,180 --> 01:15:36,847 of living conditions that our 2122 01:15:36,847 --> 01:15:38,902 servicemen and women are living in . 2123 01:15:39,020 --> 01:15:42,049 It's just not right . And I'm so glad 2124 01:15:42,060 --> 01:15:44,171 that we are concentrating on bringing 2125 01:15:44,171 --> 01:15:46,060 up this quality of life so we can 2126 01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:49,020 instill pride once again in our 2127 01:15:49,029 --> 01:15:51,209 military and , and and boost our 2128 01:15:51,220 --> 01:15:53,700 recruitment numbers . So thank you all 2129 01:15:53,709 --> 01:15:55,820 for being here today . I want to wrap 2130 01:15:55,820 --> 01:15:58,069 my head around something because I 2131 01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,439 noticed uh the uh 21 NDA A housing 2132 01:16:01,450 --> 01:16:03,879 reform provisions , section 28 18 2133 01:16:03,979 --> 01:16:06,090 requires the department to expand the 2134 01:16:06,090 --> 01:16:08,090 uniform code of basic standards for 2135 01:16:08,090 --> 01:16:10,146 privatized military housing . Uh I'm 2136 01:16:10,146 --> 01:16:11,979 proud to say that we worked with 2137 01:16:11,979 --> 01:16:14,090 Senator Holly's office in getting $50 2138 01:16:14,090 --> 01:16:15,979 million for Fort Leonard Wood for 2139 01:16:15,979 --> 01:16:18,146 privatized housing . There's some very 2140 01:16:18,146 --> 01:16:20,312 big needs there . And um as you know , 2141 01:16:20,312 --> 01:16:22,520 that base trains 80,000 personnel a 2142 01:16:22,529 --> 01:16:24,751 year . So it's very important for these 2143 01:16:24,751 --> 01:16:26,973 families to have some sense of pride in 2144 01:16:26,973 --> 01:16:29,330 where they live . Uh We're not building 2145 01:16:29,339 --> 01:16:31,395 the Taj Mahal , but we're building a 2146 01:16:31,395 --> 01:16:33,617 nice place where families can have each 2147 01:16:33,617 --> 01:16:35,839 other over and invest in community with 2148 01:16:35,839 --> 01:16:38,959 one another . Is there not AAA 2149 01:16:38,970 --> 01:16:42,640 standard for barracks right now , 2150 01:16:42,649 --> 01:16:43,740 Miss Coulson , 2151 01:16:46,270 --> 01:16:48,381 we , we do have standards . All of us 2152 01:16:48,381 --> 01:16:50,560 have standards . Our standards may be 2153 01:16:50,569 --> 01:16:53,689 different . However , uh so why are 2154 01:16:53,700 --> 01:16:55,756 there different standards ? Well , I 2155 01:16:55,756 --> 01:16:57,700 think left to our own devices . Uh 2156 01:16:57,700 --> 01:16:59,922 Congressman Alfred will do what we feel 2157 01:16:59,922 --> 01:17:02,033 is best for our military department . 2158 01:17:02,033 --> 01:17:04,256 Uh And I'll give you an example . We've 2159 01:17:04,256 --> 01:17:06,680 just uh uh established a new 2160 01:17:06,689 --> 01:17:08,911 construction standard . That is great . 2161 01:17:08,911 --> 01:17:10,689 It's , it's four bedrooms , two 2162 01:17:10,689 --> 01:17:12,689 bathrooms , a full kitchen , a full 2163 01:17:12,689 --> 01:17:14,967 living room . Uh I don't know what the , 2164 01:17:14,967 --> 01:17:17,245 the construction standards are for the , 2165 01:17:17,245 --> 01:17:19,022 the Air Force and the Navy , my 2166 01:17:19,022 --> 01:17:21,133 counterparts , but this is a decision 2167 01:17:21,133 --> 01:17:23,300 that army leadership made and , and we 2168 01:17:23,300 --> 01:17:23,250 would like to be able to provide that 2169 01:17:23,259 --> 01:17:25,830 level of standard to uh our , our 2170 01:17:25,839 --> 01:17:28,200 soldiers , our single soldiers . Uh , 2171 01:17:28,209 --> 01:17:30,899 so we all have standards . Uh , and we 2172 01:17:30,910 --> 01:17:32,966 can sit down and talk about what our 2173 01:17:32,966 --> 01:17:35,149 standards are . I think that uh there 2174 01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:38,149 is , uh the r is undertaking a look 2175 01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,104 during this nd A . That's , that's 2176 01:17:40,104 --> 01:17:43,069 being discussed right now at asking us 2177 01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:45,140 to standardize across the military 2178 01:17:45,149 --> 01:17:47,529 departments . I am an advocate for that . 2179 01:17:47,540 --> 01:17:50,149 I would like to see that as well . Um 2180 01:17:51,060 --> 01:17:53,470 You say we need , uh uh or you need a 2181 01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:55,423 billion dollars a year to get this 2182 01:17:55,423 --> 01:17:58,479 right ? Uh How many total buildings are 2183 01:17:58,490 --> 01:18:00,601 we talking about ? You said 6700 ? Is 2184 01:18:00,601 --> 01:18:02,434 that the total number of , of uh 2185 01:18:02,434 --> 01:18:06,189 barracks there are in the dod so for 2186 01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,311 the army and I can only speak for the 2187 01:18:08,311 --> 01:18:10,478 army . It's , it's a matter of scale . 2188 01:18:10,478 --> 01:18:12,589 Uh I think the memo that you received 2189 01:18:12,589 --> 01:18:14,367 last night said there were 9000 2190 01:18:14,367 --> 01:18:16,478 barracks buildings , the army as 6700 2191 01:18:16,478 --> 01:18:19,785 of them . Uh and uh 3900 are 2192 01:18:19,794 --> 01:18:21,905 training and the rest are permanent . 2193 01:18:21,905 --> 01:18:25,214 So of those 6700 , what percentage is 2194 01:18:25,225 --> 01:18:27,225 not up to a standard that you would 2195 01:18:27,225 --> 01:18:30,524 want to live in . Uh , we consider 23% 2196 01:18:30,535 --> 01:18:32,455 of that number to be in poor and 2197 01:18:32,464 --> 01:18:35,680 failing condition . And currently there 2198 01:18:35,689 --> 01:18:38,720 are service members living in 23% of 2199 01:18:38,729 --> 01:18:41,299 the 6700 barracks that are below 2200 01:18:41,310 --> 01:18:44,009 standard . I don't know , I don't know 2201 01:18:44,020 --> 01:18:46,131 that they are liable or habitable and 2202 01:18:46,131 --> 01:18:48,353 many are collective training . The ones 2203 01:18:48,353 --> 01:18:50,298 that , uh will represent of , um , 2204 01:18:50,298 --> 01:18:52,464 Escobar is not here but those that she 2205 01:18:52,464 --> 01:18:54,520 talked about , for example , at Fort 2206 01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:56,742 Bliss that are used by the Army Guard , 2207 01:18:56,742 --> 01:18:58,964 uh the Army Reserve uh during uh annual 2208 01:18:58,964 --> 01:19:00,964 training . So for permanent party , 2209 01:19:00,964 --> 01:19:03,131 permanent party , if I could just talk 2210 01:19:03,131 --> 01:19:05,353 about that , uh the number is smaller , 2211 01:19:05,353 --> 01:19:07,131 it's 18% of our permanent party 2212 01:19:07,131 --> 01:19:09,879 barracks uh are in . So at a billion 2213 01:19:09,890 --> 01:19:11,890 dollars a year . If we came up with 2214 01:19:11,890 --> 01:19:14,001 this money , how long would it take ? 2215 01:19:14,001 --> 01:19:16,223 Considering the deferred maintenance on 2216 01:19:16,223 --> 01:19:18,223 these other buildings ? We're gonna 2217 01:19:18,223 --> 01:19:20,223 gonna dip down into the substandard 2218 01:19:20,223 --> 01:19:22,334 category . How long will it take to ? 2219 01:19:22,334 --> 01:19:24,557 Right ? The ship . Well , we already uh 2220 01:19:24,557 --> 01:19:26,723 spend over a billion dollars a year on 2221 01:19:26,723 --> 01:19:28,946 our barracks . Uh when we looked at and 2222 01:19:28,946 --> 01:19:31,057 this is the data from modeling , when 2223 01:19:31,057 --> 01:19:33,168 we looked at what it would cost to uh 2224 01:19:33,168 --> 01:19:35,001 recapitalize our permanent party 2225 01:19:35,001 --> 01:19:37,580 inventory that I just described the 2226 01:19:37,589 --> 01:19:41,580 bill for that inventory alone is $6.5 2227 01:19:41,589 --> 01:19:44,220 billion . In addition to what we're 2228 01:19:44,229 --> 01:19:46,451 already , I'm almost out of time at the 2229 01:19:46,451 --> 01:19:48,562 rate . Of a billion a year . How long 2230 01:19:48,562 --> 01:19:50,729 would it take to write the ship to get 2231 01:19:50,729 --> 01:19:52,840 it ? Right . No substandard housing . 2232 01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:54,951 So we look across the palm 25 29 . It 2233 01:19:54,951 --> 01:19:56,896 would take about an additional 6.5 2234 01:19:56,896 --> 01:19:58,951 billion . And that's just from a , a 2235 01:19:58,951 --> 01:20:01,118 model number to be able to restore and 2236 01:20:01,118 --> 01:20:03,790 modernize our inventory to 100% . I've 2237 01:20:03,799 --> 01:20:05,910 gone over . Thank you , Mr Chairman . 2238 01:20:06,189 --> 01:20:08,356 Thank you Mr Alford . And we only have 2239 01:20:08,356 --> 01:20:10,522 the room for about five more minutes . 2240 01:20:10,522 --> 01:20:12,745 So I'll try to wrap up , but I just saw 2241 01:20:12,745 --> 01:20:14,856 the headline just came out from stars 2242 01:20:14,856 --> 01:20:16,967 and stripes , sewage rats and crime . 2243 01:20:16,967 --> 01:20:19,022 Our service members deserve better . 2244 01:20:19,022 --> 01:20:21,310 Not good . And that 2245 01:20:23,299 --> 01:20:25,521 I hope our service chiefs are taking us 2246 01:20:25,521 --> 01:20:27,688 personally . It's , it's , it's , they 2247 01:20:27,688 --> 01:20:30,021 need , they need to , it's , to me it's , 2248 01:20:30,021 --> 01:20:32,189 it's , it's a , it's a leadership 2249 01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:35,069 problem and a funny I get that we , 2250 01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,191 we're part of the solution here , but 2251 01:20:37,191 --> 01:20:39,358 um it's unacceptable to have that kind 2252 01:20:39,358 --> 01:20:41,524 of headline and that's what our people 2253 01:20:41,524 --> 01:20:43,802 are reading today all over the country . 2254 01:20:43,802 --> 01:20:45,636 Uh I got a request but not to be 2255 01:20:45,636 --> 01:20:47,691 answered today . I would love to sit 2256 01:20:47,691 --> 01:20:49,747 down with whoever the experts are to 2257 01:20:49,747 --> 01:20:51,580 understand . How do we determine 2258 01:20:51,580 --> 01:20:53,469 housing allowance ? I've had more 2259 01:20:53,469 --> 01:20:55,524 feedback from people that , that's a 2260 01:20:55,524 --> 01:20:57,524 mystery . You know , it sounds like 2261 01:20:57,524 --> 01:20:59,691 some people super calculators behind a 2262 01:20:59,691 --> 01:21:01,858 closed door and it seems like it works 2263 01:21:01,858 --> 01:21:04,024 in some of our areas but other areas , 2264 01:21:04,024 --> 01:21:05,970 it appears to be woefully under 2265 01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:08,589 estimated like in Washington DC area as 2266 01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:10,822 an example , I've heard the same in why 2267 01:21:10,822 --> 01:21:12,656 in San Diego . So I love just to 2268 01:21:12,656 --> 01:21:14,767 understand it better to see if we can 2269 01:21:14,767 --> 01:21:16,822 put a better uh oversight on that or 2270 01:21:16,822 --> 01:21:18,989 not . I , I just don't know if there's 2271 01:21:18,989 --> 01:21:20,933 a issue there . And maybe one last 2272 01:21:20,933 --> 01:21:23,100 question for me , how would you , each 2273 01:21:23,100 --> 01:21:25,322 of you describe if you do it briefly uh 2274 01:21:25,322 --> 01:21:25,120 characterize the financial health of 2275 01:21:25,129 --> 01:21:27,479 your housing , military housing 2276 01:21:27,490 --> 01:21:29,546 projects for how many of them you've 2277 01:21:29,549 --> 01:21:31,899 had to refinance by bringing additional 2278 01:21:31,910 --> 01:21:34,077 funding . If you just give us a little 2279 01:21:34,077 --> 01:21:36,629 sense how each , how each service is 2280 01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:40,640 doing there . I I'd be grateful . Yes , 2281 01:21:40,649 --> 01:21:42,760 chairman uh for the Department of the 2282 01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:44,816 Navy . I think our overall financial 2283 01:21:44,816 --> 01:21:46,819 health across the partners uh is is 2284 01:21:46,830 --> 01:21:49,859 healthy . Uh We do have a few challenge 2285 01:21:49,870 --> 01:21:52,370 projects uh particularly our Marine 2286 01:21:52,379 --> 01:21:54,680 Corps projects down in the Carolinas uh 2287 01:21:54,689 --> 01:21:56,529 largely as a result of Hurricane 2288 01:21:56,540 --> 01:21:58,707 Florence and some of the effect on the 2289 01:21:58,707 --> 01:22:00,873 inventory there in occupancy . So , uh 2290 01:22:00,873 --> 01:22:02,984 but the bottom line is we've had none 2291 01:22:02,984 --> 01:22:04,818 that have gone to refinancing or 2292 01:22:04,818 --> 01:22:08,399 restructuring . Thank you . Uh Just 2293 01:22:08,410 --> 01:22:10,410 very quickly . I'm , I think we are 2294 01:22:10,410 --> 01:22:12,632 happy with the , with the short term uh 2295 01:22:12,632 --> 01:22:14,743 financial viability of our projects . 2296 01:22:14,743 --> 01:22:16,966 It's the long term . It's what do we do 2297 01:22:16,966 --> 01:22:19,077 over the next 25 years to address the 2298 01:22:19,077 --> 01:22:21,299 needed recapitalization of our , of our 2299 01:22:21,299 --> 01:22:23,299 privatized inventory that , that we 2300 01:22:23,299 --> 01:22:25,077 struggle with . We welcome your 2301 01:22:25,077 --> 01:22:27,354 feedback . And how we can assist there . 2302 01:22:27,354 --> 01:22:29,577 That's another area that we got to look 2303 01:22:29,577 --> 01:22:31,743 at Mr Moriarty . So every year we do a 2304 01:22:31,743 --> 01:22:33,854 financial check of our projects based 2305 01:22:33,854 --> 01:22:35,966 on this year's with the bar rates and 2306 01:22:35,966 --> 01:22:38,132 costs and all 12 of our um 31 projects 2307 01:22:38,132 --> 01:22:40,290 are gonna require um some kind of 2308 01:22:40,299 --> 01:22:42,243 restructure . We have put money in 2309 01:22:42,243 --> 01:22:44,299 starting in 22 in our budgets to get 2310 01:22:44,299 --> 01:22:46,355 after those so that we can have good 2311 01:22:46,355 --> 01:22:48,577 debt coverage , 100% sustainment and at 2312 01:22:48,577 --> 01:22:50,577 least 70% percent reinvestment . Um 2313 01:22:50,577 --> 01:22:52,577 There are some things that cap us . 2314 01:22:52,577 --> 01:22:54,577 We'd love to talk to you more about 2315 01:22:54,577 --> 01:22:56,799 scoring was mentioned earlier . There's 2316 01:22:56,799 --> 01:22:58,799 also other restrictions in law that 2317 01:22:58,799 --> 01:23:00,966 allow us to put even more money to fix 2318 01:23:00,966 --> 01:23:00,955 those projects . Last thing I'd leave 2319 01:23:00,964 --> 01:23:02,908 you with Mr Chairman and , and for 2320 01:23:02,908 --> 01:23:05,075 distinguished uh congressmen and women 2321 01:23:05,075 --> 01:23:07,075 is , you know , they're for the Air 2322 01:23:07,075 --> 01:23:09,186 Force . None of our members should be 2323 01:23:09,186 --> 01:23:11,353 living in a room that is substandard . 2324 01:23:11,353 --> 01:23:13,353 We have a smaller problem . We only 2325 01:23:13,353 --> 01:23:15,575 have about 7 , 800 between our tech and 2326 01:23:15,575 --> 01:23:17,464 our , our , our , our numbers are 2327 01:23:17,464 --> 01:23:19,353 smaller but none of our airmen or 2328 01:23:19,353 --> 01:23:21,520 guardians should be living in a room . 2329 01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:23,520 Every commander has the ability and 2330 01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:25,686 responsibility to move that airman out 2331 01:23:25,686 --> 01:23:25,479 of that room or guardian . If it's a 2332 01:23:25,490 --> 01:23:27,790 problem , we have dorms that need work 2333 01:23:27,799 --> 01:23:29,966 and need money , but there never is an 2334 01:23:29,966 --> 01:23:32,021 excuse from the Air Force side . Our 2335 01:23:32,021 --> 01:23:34,077 leadership from the secretary to our 2336 01:23:34,077 --> 01:23:36,188 two chiefs would not , would not , uh 2337 01:23:36,350 --> 01:23:38,406 they would not allow that . So our , 2338 01:23:38,406 --> 01:23:40,628 our installation leadership should know 2339 01:23:40,628 --> 01:23:42,794 that um I just want to leave that with 2340 01:23:42,794 --> 01:23:44,961 you that , that has not changed in our 2341 01:23:44,961 --> 01:23:47,183 air force , but we appreciate you being 2342 01:23:47,183 --> 01:23:47,000 here today and uh taking our questions 2343 01:23:47,009 --> 01:23:49,629 and giving us feedback . We started 2344 01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:52,290 this , my assumption was that we were 2345 01:23:52,299 --> 01:23:55,310 going to hear primarily about the 15% 2346 01:23:55,319 --> 01:23:57,970 or so of our military that could 2347 01:23:57,979 --> 01:24:01,419 qualify for stamp food insecure . And 2348 01:24:01,740 --> 01:24:04,018 so when we , when we're going to bases , 2349 01:24:04,018 --> 01:24:06,080 I expected that to be where I would 2350 01:24:06,089 --> 01:24:07,922 hear the most concerns and , and 2351 01:24:07,922 --> 01:24:10,089 actually , it was about housing . I've 2352 01:24:10,100 --> 01:24:12,879 heard more from our military members 2353 01:24:12,890 --> 01:24:15,350 and spouses or , you know , the family 2354 01:24:15,359 --> 01:24:17,709 members . It's been more about the 2355 01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:19,887 housing , the quality of housing , the 2356 01:24:19,887 --> 01:24:21,998 housing allowance that they're living 2357 01:24:21,998 --> 01:24:24,220 off base . And uh so I , I've surely 2358 01:24:24,229 --> 01:24:26,509 I've become educated and informed by 2359 01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:29,180 the feedback of those on the ground and , 2360 01:24:29,189 --> 01:24:31,680 and what they're going through . And it 2361 01:24:31,689 --> 01:24:34,279 appears to me that , you know , we have 2362 01:24:34,290 --> 01:24:36,623 Congress has an important role here . I , 2363 01:24:36,623 --> 01:24:38,679 I with the military housing , it was 2364 01:24:38,679 --> 01:24:41,350 our injects that helped do a course 2365 01:24:41,359 --> 01:24:43,470 correction here . I think we're gonna 2366 01:24:43,470 --> 01:24:45,526 have to do the same thing uh when it 2367 01:24:45,526 --> 01:24:47,692 comes to the , our , our barracks . Uh 2368 01:24:47,692 --> 01:24:47,370 So we're , we're gonna put a lot of , 2369 01:24:47,379 --> 01:24:49,435 of put a focus on this . We're gonna 2370 01:24:49,435 --> 01:24:52,240 put a spotlight on it and , but the 2371 01:24:52,250 --> 01:24:54,306 service has also got to tell us what 2372 01:24:54,306 --> 01:24:57,209 they need to under budget and also put 2373 01:24:57,220 --> 01:24:59,442 more in than requested and still have a 2374 01:24:59,442 --> 01:25:01,609 deficit . It's not , there's something 2375 01:25:01,609 --> 01:25:03,942 not right there . It it does not add up . 2376 01:25:03,942 --> 01:25:05,998 So there's a there is an urgent need 2377 01:25:05,998 --> 01:25:08,276 for duty to implement oversight of our , 2378 01:25:08,276 --> 01:25:10,290 of our housing to to right now , 2379 01:25:10,299 --> 01:25:12,521 primarily our unaccompanied housing and 2380 01:25:12,521 --> 01:25:14,410 it continues steadfastly in their 2381 01:25:14,410 --> 01:25:16,632 mission to ensure military families and 2382 01:25:16,632 --> 01:25:18,799 privatized housing are taken care of . 2383 01:25:18,799 --> 01:25:20,799 So , with that , thank you for your 2384 01:25:20,799 --> 01:25:22,799 time and thanks to our , our fellow 2385 01:25:22,799 --> 01:25:24,966 members here with that , we will close 2386 01:25:24,966 --> 01:25:25,830 the hearing . Thank you .