WEBVTT 00:00.759 --> 00:02.703 Welcome everyone and thank you for 00:02.703 --> 00:04.426 joining us for today's Defense 00:04.426 --> 00:06.481 Innovation Board public meeting . My 00:06.481 --> 00:08.648 name is Doctor Marina Thou and I'm the 00:08.648 --> 00:10.537 executive director and designated 00:10.537 --> 00:12.315 Federal Officer for the Defense 00:12.315 --> 00:14.426 Innovation Board . Today's meeting is 00:14.426 --> 00:16.426 being live streamed and recorded to 00:16.426 --> 00:18.537 allow members of the public to attend 00:18.537 --> 00:21.129 and uh the meeting virtually now or 00:21.139 --> 00:23.360 view it later . Thank you to the 00:23.370 --> 00:25.620 defense media agency for providing 00:25.629 --> 00:27.780 their expert support to support this 00:27.790 --> 00:30.260 event and uh to the Defense Innovation 00:30.270 --> 00:32.270 Board staff team and everybody else 00:32.270 --> 00:34.603 involved making this event happen today . 00:34.603 --> 00:36.548 The board would now convene in its 00:36.548 --> 00:38.548 public session . Please allow me to 00:38.548 --> 00:41.470 share a few procedural comments . The 00:41.479 --> 00:43.423 board is discretionary independent 00:43.423 --> 00:45.930 advisory board operated operating under 00:45.939 --> 00:47.950 the advisory , the Federal Advisory 00:47.959 --> 00:49.792 Committee Act and the Government 00:49.792 --> 00:51.737 Sunshine Act . Today's meeting was 00:51.737 --> 00:53.626 announced in the federal register 00:53.626 --> 00:56.189 notice posted on February 21st 2024 . 00:56.330 --> 00:58.497 There have been no significant changes 00:58.497 --> 01:00.552 to the meeting's agenda as posted in 01:00.552 --> 01:02.441 the federal register notice . The 01:02.441 --> 01:04.497 public was invited to submit written 01:04.497 --> 01:06.400 comments for the board and uh we 01:06.410 --> 01:08.466 received several written comments in 01:08.466 --> 01:10.688 advance of today's meeting . Those have 01:10.688 --> 01:13.529 been uh collected and called and uh 01:13.540 --> 01:15.739 they have been posted on the Defense 01:15.750 --> 01:19.730 Innovation Board website as a reminder , 01:19.739 --> 01:21.961 these are comments to the board and not 01:21.961 --> 01:24.072 the question and answer session . And 01:24.072 --> 01:26.295 now I would like to turn it over to the 01:26.295 --> 01:28.295 Defense Innovation Board chair , Mr 01:28.295 --> 01:30.295 Mike Bloomberg . Mike over to you . 01:30.540 --> 01:32.484 Well , thanks Marina and thanks to 01:32.484 --> 01:34.949 everyone tuning in and watching online 01:35.559 --> 01:38.040 in case anyone in the audience isn't 01:38.050 --> 01:40.272 familiar with the board's mission . Our 01:40.272 --> 01:42.599 job is to provide independent 01:42.610 --> 01:44.680 recommendations to the Secretary of 01:44.690 --> 01:47.339 Defense and other senior leaders across 01:47.349 --> 01:50.000 the department . It's a job we're all 01:50.010 --> 01:52.589 honored to do and by doing it well , we 01:52.599 --> 01:54.710 can help empower even more of our men 01:54.720 --> 01:57.480 and women in uniform as their jobs 01:57.489 --> 01:59.656 become even more dangerous in the face 01:59.660 --> 02:01.660 of escalating challenges around the 02:01.660 --> 02:04.319 world . Now , this public meeting will 02:04.330 --> 02:06.441 proceed a little differently from our 02:06.441 --> 02:08.949 previous meeting at the Pentagon in 02:08.960 --> 02:12.070 January . This time . We're inviting 02:12.080 --> 02:14.279 the public to hear directly from some 02:14.289 --> 02:16.511 of the experts who will help inform the 02:16.511 --> 02:18.990 board's two current studies which 02:19.000 --> 02:21.220 Secretary Lloyd Austin and under 02:21.229 --> 02:24.160 Secretary Heidi Shu have asked us to 02:24.169 --> 02:27.350 undertake to help set the table . Let 02:27.360 --> 02:29.639 me summarize the two studies . Quickly . 02:30.300 --> 02:32.580 The first focus is on how the United 02:32.589 --> 02:34.910 States is innovating in partnership 02:34.919 --> 02:37.460 with allied nations board member , 02:37.470 --> 02:39.526 Charles Phillips is coordinating the 02:39.526 --> 02:42.460 study . We'll identify not just the 02:42.470 --> 02:44.800 strengths and technology strategies we 02:44.809 --> 02:47.080 have in common with our allies . We 02:47.089 --> 02:49.270 will also look at some of the barriers 02:49.279 --> 02:51.440 that exist across multilateral 02:51.449 --> 02:53.759 agreements and how we might work to 02:53.770 --> 02:56.779 remove those barriers and improve how 02:56.789 --> 02:59.779 we collaborate . The second study 02:59.789 --> 03:01.622 focuses on how we might make the 03:01.622 --> 03:04.220 department's adoption of new technology , 03:04.229 --> 03:07.820 both faster and less painful , retired 03:07.830 --> 03:10.052 admiral Mike Mullen , who knows a thing 03:10.052 --> 03:12.108 or two about navigating the halls of 03:12.108 --> 03:14.660 the Pentagon is coordinating this study . 03:15.149 --> 03:17.500 There's no innovation without taking 03:17.509 --> 03:19.919 risks . And right now it's clear that 03:19.929 --> 03:22.809 we need to incentivize more individuals 03:22.820 --> 03:25.042 and teams across the department to take 03:25.042 --> 03:27.880 more risks . So we'll collect insights 03:27.889 --> 03:29.869 from department , research labs , 03:29.970 --> 03:32.990 contracting officers , service members 03:33.000 --> 03:35.360 from each branch and external partners 03:35.369 --> 03:38.360 across industry too . That way we can 03:38.369 --> 03:40.149 better understand the different 03:40.160 --> 03:42.529 timelines and incentives of each of the 03:42.539 --> 03:45.449 parties involved . Then we can better 03:45.460 --> 03:48.050 align those timelines and incentives 03:48.119 --> 03:50.419 and speed up the adoption of promising 03:50.429 --> 03:53.990 new tech . Nothing to it . Right . But 03:54.000 --> 03:56.056 seriously , I think it's fair to say 03:56.056 --> 03:58.056 that we have plenty of work to do . 03:58.056 --> 04:00.222 We'll provide a detailed update on the 04:00.222 --> 04:02.167 studies at the public meeting next 04:02.167 --> 04:04.940 month . But first today , we're glad to 04:04.949 --> 04:07.289 welcome several , several members of 04:07.300 --> 04:09.710 the nonprofit defense entrepreneurs 04:09.720 --> 04:12.190 forum and to hear their firsthand 04:12.199 --> 04:14.255 perspectives on the challenges we're 04:14.255 --> 04:16.899 tackling to ensure we hear from 04:16.910 --> 04:19.380 everyone in the 45 minutes that we have 04:19.390 --> 04:22.309 asked . I've asked Marina to moderate A 04:22.320 --> 04:25.109 Q and A with the group board members 04:25.119 --> 04:26.952 should feel free to chime in and 04:26.952 --> 04:28.897 questions with their questions and 04:28.897 --> 04:32.869 comments throughout Marina over to you . 04:34.079 --> 04:36.619 Thank you , Mike . We're delighted 04:36.630 --> 04:38.241 today to welcome the defense 04:38.241 --> 04:40.779 entrepreneurs forum members and uh 04:42.269 --> 04:44.649 hear from them as Mike mentioned and 04:44.660 --> 04:47.570 from your insights and expertise , the 04:47.579 --> 04:50.019 defense entrepreneurs forum connects , 04:50.029 --> 04:53.829 inspires and empowers innovators across 04:53.839 --> 04:56.239 the national security ecosystem . And 04:56.250 --> 05:00.250 I'm personally very uh fond of 05:00.260 --> 05:02.204 uh the defense entrepreneurs forum 05:02.204 --> 05:04.371 because actually I was involved in the 05:04.371 --> 05:06.371 early stages , probably five or six 05:06.371 --> 05:08.890 years ago . And uh delighted to welcome 05:09.149 --> 05:11.769 uh today , Jess Le Megan Metzer , 05:11.790 --> 05:15.260 Michael Madrid Ivana , who and uh Ian 05:15.670 --> 05:17.670 Een , and I'd be remiss if I didn't 05:17.670 --> 05:19.892 mention that almost everyone has been a 05:19.892 --> 05:22.239 Ted Xdau speaker here . So if you're 05:22.250 --> 05:24.730 not familiar with Ted Xdau , look it up 05:25.660 --> 05:28.559 and try to attend . So let's uh zero in , 05:28.570 --> 05:31.420 in today's conversation uh because we 05:31.429 --> 05:33.779 do have only 30 minutes . I'd like for 05:33.790 --> 05:36.420 us to split the time in 15 minutes for 05:36.429 --> 05:38.485 each of the studies . So we're gonna 05:38.485 --> 05:40.262 start with uh optimizing how we 05:40.262 --> 05:42.485 innovate with allies and partners . And 05:42.485 --> 05:44.684 I'm gonna ask Ivana to lead the first 05:44.695 --> 05:46.834 uh to , to kick us off with answering 05:46.845 --> 05:48.755 the first question . And so as a 05:48.765 --> 05:51.744 reminder , the answers need to be about 05:51.755 --> 05:53.866 three minutes . So no matter how many 05:53.866 --> 05:55.977 people respond , let's try to keep it 05:55.984 --> 05:57.984 around three minutes and then we'll 05:57.984 --> 06:00.135 have about six minutes uh total for 06:00.144 --> 06:03.174 members to ask questions . So Ivana , 06:03.505 --> 06:05.672 how do we optimize the way we innovate 06:05.672 --> 06:07.783 with our allies and partners ? It's a 06:07.783 --> 06:10.600 very broad question over to you . Thank 06:10.609 --> 06:13.019 you so much for having me . Um And I'll 06:13.029 --> 06:15.200 do my little spiel in about a minute 06:15.209 --> 06:17.839 and a half . Um And so I would like to 06:17.850 --> 06:20.017 actually set the scene by um talking a 06:20.017 --> 06:22.072 little bit more about why we need to 06:22.072 --> 06:24.619 work with our allies , right ? So for 06:24.630 --> 06:26.480 de we see it as the best way to 06:26.489 --> 06:28.799 strengthen our mutual defense posture 06:28.809 --> 06:30.642 and to prevent further democracy 06:30.642 --> 06:33.279 backsliding against authoritarianism , 06:33.730 --> 06:35.674 especially against the backdrop of 06:35.674 --> 06:37.841 great power competition . Partnerships 06:37.841 --> 06:40.130 are seen as a linchpin in the US 06:40.140 --> 06:41.807 Department defensive strategy 06:41.807 --> 06:44.320 deterrence as outlined in the 2022 06:44.329 --> 06:46.880 national security strategy . Yet , 06:46.890 --> 06:49.559 little capacity and few initiatives 06:49.570 --> 06:51.980 exist in terms of fostering cross 06:51.989 --> 06:55.369 national uh camaraderie via cultural 06:55.380 --> 06:58.029 intelligence and atmospherics . And 06:58.040 --> 07:00.940 these socio-economic human factors have 07:00.950 --> 07:03.929 taken a backseat to remain relevant and 07:03.940 --> 07:06.750 competitive . Our younger ju uh Junior 07:06.760 --> 07:09.429 officer and Alyssa core must garner in 07:09.440 --> 07:12.549 depth cultural , cultural awareness and 07:12.559 --> 07:15.549 empathy for the nuanced operational and 07:15.559 --> 07:18.000 social realities inherent to these 07:18.010 --> 07:20.855 likely theaters of operation whole of 07:20.864 --> 07:23.054 society . Informal working groups are 07:23.065 --> 07:25.232 incredibly well resourced , supporting 07:25.232 --> 07:27.994 kinetic operations and are are vastly 07:28.005 --> 07:30.755 disrupting the acquisition , supply , 07:30.765 --> 07:33.674 logistics and tech development and 07:33.684 --> 07:35.684 fielding cycles . We would normally 07:35.684 --> 07:39.394 associate with dod very few cultural 07:39.404 --> 07:41.524 exchanges intended to foster true 07:41.535 --> 07:43.734 rapport and working relationships with 07:43.744 --> 07:46.095 allied partner forces exist for the 07:46.105 --> 07:48.765 Junior Officer Corps and the elicit dod 07:48.774 --> 07:52.130 personnel de aims to fulfill that gap 07:52.140 --> 07:53.869 through informal exchanges and 07:53.880 --> 07:55.769 convenings with our international 07:55.769 --> 07:57.936 partners . Specifically , those in the 07:57.936 --> 08:00.047 Asian theater , including Singapore , 08:00.047 --> 08:02.670 Taiwan and the Philippines . With that . 08:02.679 --> 08:04.890 I want to turn it over to Jesse to 08:04.899 --> 08:08.880 discuss the solution . Thank 08:08.890 --> 08:11.001 you , Ivana and uh thank you to the D 08:11.001 --> 08:12.834 for having us back . Uh As Ivana 08:12.834 --> 08:14.946 mentioned , um innovation , we almost 08:14.946 --> 08:17.057 have , it's almost been indoctrinated 08:17.057 --> 08:19.279 in , in the western dod . Now , we have 08:19.279 --> 08:21.334 a number of programs of record . The 08:21.334 --> 08:23.334 dib is an incredible example of how 08:23.334 --> 08:25.390 we've evolved to ensure and expedite 08:25.390 --> 08:27.501 technological advances in the private 08:27.501 --> 08:29.723 sector to get into the hands of the war 08:29.723 --> 08:31.946 fighter very quickly . However , what's 08:31.946 --> 08:34.168 happening around the world in various A 08:34.168 --> 08:36.334 os these proxy environments uh the the 08:36.334 --> 08:36.210 game is very different how things are 08:36.219 --> 08:38.163 transpiring on the ground . And as 08:38.163 --> 08:40.386 Ivana mentioned , there aren't a lot of 08:40.386 --> 08:42.552 opportunities for our junior offers in 08:42.552 --> 08:44.663 our in our listed dod to get exposure 08:44.663 --> 08:46.775 to the socio cultural elements of how 08:46.775 --> 08:48.886 operations , logistics acquisitions , 08:48.886 --> 08:51.108 things are transpiring and environments 08:51.108 --> 08:53.330 like Ukraine for example . And a lot of 08:53.330 --> 08:55.163 what we hear as an example using 08:55.163 --> 08:57.275 Ukraine because that's a very current 08:57.275 --> 08:59.275 situation . F PV , drones and other 08:59.275 --> 09:01.386 technologies have changed the face of 09:01.386 --> 09:03.441 war as we know it . What's also very 09:03.441 --> 09:05.552 interesting and important to study is 09:05.552 --> 09:07.552 how the entire whole of society has 09:07.552 --> 09:07.409 been engaged . And now hundreds of 09:07.419 --> 09:09.697 millions of dollars have flown through , 09:09.697 --> 09:11.641 through groups like YPO and social 09:11.641 --> 09:13.863 impact entrepreneurs who have partnered 09:13.863 --> 09:15.919 up with local businesses and adopted 09:15.919 --> 09:17.697 direct action units and the way 09:17.697 --> 09:19.863 innovation is being done on the ground 09:19.863 --> 09:21.808 in these environments is radically 09:21.808 --> 09:24.030 different than what we've built systems 09:24.030 --> 09:26.141 to support . It doesn't make it right 09:26.141 --> 09:25.525 wrong or otherwise . But it's 09:25.534 --> 09:27.478 imperative that our junior Officer 09:27.478 --> 09:29.534 Corps and our enlisted and other dod 09:29.534 --> 09:31.590 personnel gain visceral exposure and 09:31.590 --> 09:33.534 establish rapport with individuals 09:33.534 --> 09:35.756 operating in our , with our allies . So 09:35.756 --> 09:37.645 when we have to support , whether 09:37.645 --> 09:39.867 through the advise , assist the company 09:39.867 --> 09:41.756 or , you know , from a deterrence 09:41.756 --> 09:43.978 perspective , we are really well versed 09:43.978 --> 09:45.867 and understand culturally what is 09:45.867 --> 09:47.923 transpiring on the ground . So we're 09:47.923 --> 09:50.090 asking , we would love for the dib and 09:50.090 --> 09:52.201 what definitely is gonna try to do is 09:52.201 --> 09:51.809 within six months , we're gonna work to 09:51.820 --> 09:54.150 stand up a fellowship and this is gonna 09:54.159 --> 09:55.937 really largely rely on business 09:55.937 --> 09:57.992 relationships in these international 09:57.992 --> 09:59.715 environments that , that Ivana 09:59.715 --> 10:01.770 mentioned include Singapore , Taiwan 10:01.770 --> 10:03.937 and Philippines . And there's gonna be 10:03.937 --> 10:03.630 a number of challenges from security 10:03.640 --> 10:05.418 clearance uh from any number of 10:05.418 --> 10:07.584 structuring issues that we're going to 10:07.584 --> 10:09.584 face . And we'd love for the div to 10:09.584 --> 10:11.418 hold de accountable to , to this 10:11.418 --> 10:13.584 project . And we'd love to ask the div 10:13.584 --> 10:13.580 and the indi individual div members for 10:13.590 --> 10:15.701 support as we structure and architect 10:15.701 --> 10:17.757 this cultural exchange . Thank you . 10:21.929 --> 10:23.010 Uh Your uh 10:26.130 --> 10:29.799 thank you , Jessie . So , yes , so 10:29.809 --> 10:31.476 you're , so you're building a 10:31.476 --> 10:34.869 fellowship . And uh and so how , how do 10:34.880 --> 10:37.239 you see the fellowship program 10:37.250 --> 10:39.361 addressing the biggest challenges and 10:39.361 --> 10:41.306 opportunities ? What , what is the 10:41.306 --> 10:42.972 fellowship program looking to 10:42.972 --> 10:45.194 accomplish ? I wanna take that you like 10:45.194 --> 10:49.090 me to take it . Uh We're 10:49.099 --> 10:51.155 looking to accomplish is right now , 10:51.155 --> 10:53.266 there's , there's a tremendous amount 10:53.266 --> 10:55.210 of , of focus on tech and additive 10:55.210 --> 10:57.432 manufacturing A I . These things are of 10:57.432 --> 10:59.599 course imperative , you know how we we 10:59.599 --> 10:58.880 do this in the private sector and how 10:58.890 --> 11:01.001 we channel these , you know , these , 11:01.001 --> 11:02.612 these improvements and these 11:02.612 --> 11:04.612 innovations into dod , of course is 11:04.612 --> 11:06.501 imperative . But what's not being 11:06.501 --> 11:08.723 studied enough in our estimation is the 11:08.723 --> 11:08.609 human element , the human terrain . Uh 11:08.619 --> 11:10.786 and the fellowships are not new , it's 11:10.786 --> 11:12.841 not a new approach . There's nothing 11:12.841 --> 11:15.063 revolutionary about this . However , uh 11:15.063 --> 11:17.119 there are not a lot of opportunities 11:17.119 --> 11:19.286 for the junior officers uh and for for 11:19.286 --> 11:21.175 the enlisted to gain this type of 11:21.175 --> 11:23.341 exposure and to have systemic change , 11:23.341 --> 11:25.563 we feel it's imperative for the younger 11:25.563 --> 11:25.109 officers and people getting involved in 11:25.119 --> 11:27.341 the national security community earlier 11:27.341 --> 11:29.452 on to gain exposure to how our allies 11:29.452 --> 11:31.452 are operating in their environments 11:31.452 --> 11:33.452 because we cannot expect them to do 11:33.452 --> 11:35.619 things the way that we do things . And 11:35.619 --> 11:37.619 if we want to be best positioned to 11:37.619 --> 11:39.730 support and again , to advise us as a 11:39.730 --> 11:41.786 company , we have to have a visceral 11:41.786 --> 11:41.510 understanding for how society is 11:41.520 --> 11:43.742 operating in their respective countries 11:43.742 --> 11:45.631 and how we can best plug into the 11:45.631 --> 11:47.798 existing cultural nuances of how their 11:47.798 --> 11:49.964 respective ecosystems function . Thank 11:49.964 --> 11:52.242 you for that . So let's pause here and , 11:52.242 --> 11:54.076 and open the floor for our board 11:54.076 --> 11:57.039 members uh to ask any questions . 11:58.479 --> 12:01.799 A real Mullen So Jesse , um 12:02.000 --> 12:03.722 as I listen to this , I mean , 12:03.722 --> 12:05.944 historically , the cultural barrier for 12:05.944 --> 12:09.789 the program you're talking about is um 12:10.010 --> 12:12.469 allies and partners come here if we've 12:12.479 --> 12:14.701 had fellows , typically , I mean , it's 12:14.701 --> 12:16.757 not exclusive but they actually come 12:16.757 --> 12:19.919 here in numbers to our war colleges , 12:19.929 --> 12:22.150 to our graduate schools , to our 12:22.159 --> 12:25.390 training command and to do this . I 12:25.400 --> 12:28.219 think what you're talking about is and , 12:28.229 --> 12:30.340 and I don't disagree with this . It's 12:30.340 --> 12:32.451 just that getting the services to cut 12:32.451 --> 12:35.440 loose with numbers . Not , not one of , 12:35.469 --> 12:37.358 because typically we do one of in 12:37.359 --> 12:40.929 Singapore or one ofs in Taiwan or the P 12:40.940 --> 12:42.718 I , you know , there's a volume 12:42.718 --> 12:45.150 requirement here across dod . I'm not 12:45.159 --> 12:48.070 just talking military . It's that we 12:48.080 --> 12:50.669 are , we are so acculturated to people 12:50.679 --> 12:52.820 coming here that we don't even think 12:52.830 --> 12:56.000 about being in their shoes in their 12:56.010 --> 12:58.288 country , which is absolutely critical . 12:58.288 --> 13:01.469 So it's a big , it's a , it's a big bar 13:01.479 --> 13:03.590 that you've raised in terms of trying 13:03.590 --> 13:05.701 to get over . Uh , and all , at least 13:05.701 --> 13:07.868 as I understand it and all the aspects 13:07.868 --> 13:10.201 of it . Not , I , I couldn't agree more . 13:10.201 --> 13:12.423 I think one of the things that we don't 13:12.423 --> 13:15.289 do well that we need to focus on is how 13:15.299 --> 13:17.466 do we see it through others eyes ? How 13:17.466 --> 13:19.577 do we see it from their perspective ? 13:19.577 --> 13:22.369 And we're not very good at that . Abs , 13:22.440 --> 13:24.607 absolutely , sir . I think you hit the 13:24.607 --> 13:26.551 nail on the head and we understand 13:26.551 --> 13:25.869 there's gonna be tremendous cultural 13:25.880 --> 13:27.658 barriers in the dod to , to get 13:27.658 --> 13:29.880 requisite permissions . And it's , it's 13:29.880 --> 13:31.936 a massive cultural shift . However , 13:31.936 --> 13:31.859 from what we've seen on the ground , 13:31.869 --> 13:33.925 operationally , we have a tremendous 13:33.925 --> 13:36.036 amount to learn and it , it goes both 13:36.036 --> 13:38.258 ways . Uh , and it's very difficult for 13:38.258 --> 13:40.313 us to ask those things from , from a 13:40.313 --> 13:42.258 distance . Um , and , you know , I 13:42.258 --> 13:44.369 don't know that we need to have large 13:44.369 --> 13:46.425 numbers off the bat . And I think if 13:46.425 --> 13:45.974 you find the right people , you know , 13:45.984 --> 13:47.817 you start with one , our goal is 13:47.817 --> 13:49.928 actually have six billets filled . Uh 13:49.928 --> 13:52.206 you know , when we launch this program , 13:52.206 --> 13:52.114 hopefully in six months and , and 13:52.125 --> 13:54.347 you've got to start somewhere but could 13:54.347 --> 13:56.347 not agree more . Yeah . And we also 13:56.347 --> 13:58.780 want to pull them out of the defense um 13:58.789 --> 14:01.590 context , right ? And so that they also 14:01.599 --> 14:03.543 understand where the civilians are 14:03.543 --> 14:05.599 coming from . So we almost see it as 14:05.599 --> 14:08.340 like a mesh , a mesh up between the 14:08.349 --> 14:11.469 Aspen executive seminar where , you 14:11.479 --> 14:13.630 know , you have certain amount of 14:13.640 --> 14:15.862 philosophy and history that you have to 14:15.862 --> 14:19.020 read about other cultures , plus that 14:19.030 --> 14:22.419 hands on experience with um their 14:22.650 --> 14:25.780 defense co counterpart . Um But also 14:25.789 --> 14:28.289 being exposed to what the ordinary 14:28.299 --> 14:31.309 civilian is going through . Yeah , I 14:31.320 --> 14:33.320 don't disagree with all that . It's 14:33.320 --> 14:35.376 just the difference between what you 14:35.376 --> 14:37.640 just described and living there , but 14:37.650 --> 14:40.460 literally living in a country uh living 14:40.469 --> 14:43.909 with a family uh is , is almost night 14:43.919 --> 14:46.141 and day . And that's to me that's where 14:46.141 --> 14:48.280 you want to get to that kind of 14:48.289 --> 14:50.400 understanding and all the pieces that 14:50.400 --> 14:52.511 go into that . The , the other note I 14:52.511 --> 14:54.678 took just as I was listening to you is 14:54.678 --> 14:56.733 how to NYPO triggered me because the 14:56.733 --> 14:58.956 relationship piece there is huge . It's 14:58.956 --> 15:01.178 global . Uh , it's , uh , but it goes , 15:01.178 --> 15:01.080 it really sort of goes through the 15:01.090 --> 15:03.257 business school . I mean , that's kind 15:03.257 --> 15:05.034 of central , that's where those 15:05.034 --> 15:06.979 relationships get started . And is 15:06.979 --> 15:09.201 there a way to do this in that regard , 15:09.201 --> 15:11.368 which could make it subtractive from a 15:11.368 --> 15:13.201 career standpoint for our junior 15:13.201 --> 15:15.257 officers in particular to , to go to 15:15.257 --> 15:18.010 school will create that kind of uh 15:18.159 --> 15:20.270 connection in those relationships and 15:20.270 --> 15:22.270 then bring them back . So , but you 15:22.270 --> 15:24.048 gotta go , we gotta go to other 15:24.048 --> 15:26.409 countries , the , the normal cultural 15:26.419 --> 15:28.820 adaptation we get in other countries , 15:28.830 --> 15:31.780 sadly , is typically when we're in a 15:31.789 --> 15:34.869 fight and we don't have it before we go . 15:35.109 --> 15:38.109 I mean , that's , you know , so I , I 15:38.119 --> 15:40.286 admire the challenge but it's a , it's 15:40.286 --> 15:42.309 a big challenge . Let me ask you a 15:42.320 --> 15:45.150 question . Um Can somebody give us 15:45.159 --> 15:49.039 examples of things we tried to 15:49.049 --> 15:52.789 address but failed ? Um And 15:52.799 --> 15:55.409 um why uh they might fail in the 15:55.419 --> 15:59.239 current system ? Yes , 16:00.190 --> 16:03.049 I , I can give you um an example of how 16:03.059 --> 16:05.226 things have actually been happening in 16:05.226 --> 16:07.448 Ukraine versus what we might require um 16:07.448 --> 16:09.670 or through our system . Um You know , I 16:09.670 --> 16:11.840 had mentioned YPO um you know , we , 16:11.849 --> 16:14.016 we've seen literally and , and touched 16:14.016 --> 16:16.071 uh and and help facilitate literally 16:16.071 --> 16:18.293 hundreds of millions of dollars of , of 16:18.293 --> 16:20.238 money coming through social impact 16:20.238 --> 16:22.516 groups , you know , private , you know , 16:22.516 --> 16:24.516 entrepreneurial venture groups , uh 16:24.516 --> 16:24.150 groups that are , have absolutely 16:24.159 --> 16:25.826 nothing to do with government 16:25.826 --> 16:28.159 contracting or s or , or primes uh but 16:28.169 --> 16:30.820 simply wanted to be supportive . Um And 16:30.830 --> 16:33.289 we've seen uh you know , millions and 16:33.299 --> 16:35.521 millions of dollars of , of procurement 16:35.521 --> 16:37.743 acquisitions and last mile distribution 16:37.743 --> 16:39.966 done with zero money before operational 16:39.966 --> 16:41.910 budgets even hit based on goodwill 16:41.910 --> 16:44.243 handshakes and , and established report . 16:44.243 --> 16:46.021 Um So I think uh to answer your 16:46.021 --> 16:48.077 question to the best of my ability , 16:48.077 --> 16:50.299 our process even for innovation is very 16:50.299 --> 16:52.355 systematized and very regimented and 16:52.355 --> 16:54.521 there's clearly a , a place and a need 16:54.521 --> 16:56.410 for that . Absolutely . We're not 16:56.410 --> 16:55.809 saying that that's not required . 16:55.820 --> 16:58.440 However , uh we would be remiss and we , 16:58.450 --> 17:00.672 we would , I think be setting ourselves 17:00.672 --> 17:02.506 up for failure if we were not to 17:02.506 --> 17:04.506 identify the fact that the way that 17:04.506 --> 17:06.339 money flows and support is being 17:06.339 --> 17:08.228 provided in other environments is 17:08.228 --> 17:07.650 drastically different than what we're 17:07.660 --> 17:11.199 used to . And we are seeing tech cycles 17:11.209 --> 17:12.931 and , and fielding of tech and 17:12.931 --> 17:15.153 iterative uh you know , evolutions of , 17:15.153 --> 17:17.209 of , you know , drone technology and 17:17.209 --> 17:19.320 you know , software backdoors being , 17:19.320 --> 17:21.653 you know , fielded tested , changed and , 17:21.653 --> 17:23.820 and brought back up to the field in 24 17:23.820 --> 17:25.876 hours for pennies on the dollar . Uh 17:25.876 --> 17:27.931 because civilian and entrepreneurial 17:27.931 --> 17:27.479 groups are just involved and have 17:27.489 --> 17:29.545 adopted front line units , something 17:29.545 --> 17:32.229 that we don't see uh within our system , 17:35.560 --> 17:38.180 part of the part of the necessity 17:38.189 --> 17:40.356 because of how Ukraine is structured . 17:40.356 --> 17:42.578 I've been there and been with the units 17:42.578 --> 17:44.578 on the front lines and it's uh it's 17:44.578 --> 17:46.800 very , it's very much a confederacy and 17:46.800 --> 17:49.560 doesn't feel like the US where combined 17:49.569 --> 17:52.650 arms maneuver is possible . Um And so I 17:52.660 --> 17:55.500 think the , the , the charities and 17:55.510 --> 17:57.732 other entrepreneurial efforts that have 17:57.732 --> 17:59.788 sprung up because there is , there's 17:59.788 --> 18:01.843 been a lack of a central procurement 18:01.843 --> 18:04.010 mandate from the government . But I do 18:04.010 --> 18:05.899 think you've got uh Ukraine is an 18:05.899 --> 18:08.089 example that you can hold up to the US 18:08.099 --> 18:10.155 and all of our allies and partners , 18:10.155 --> 18:12.189 especially with respect to junior 18:12.199 --> 18:15.069 officers and enlisted . And that's in 18:15.079 --> 18:16.912 Ukraine , it is often the junior 18:16.912 --> 18:18.912 officers and enlisted who are being 18:18.912 --> 18:21.109 looked to as the technical experts , 18:21.439 --> 18:23.661 they are the ones that are working with 18:23.661 --> 18:25.883 the companies or sometimes doing things 18:25.883 --> 18:28.106 inside the units because they , they've 18:28.106 --> 18:30.780 got uh more , you know , more currency 18:30.790 --> 18:33.060 in technology . And so I've seen that 18:33.069 --> 18:35.260 across all different echelons , the 18:35.270 --> 18:37.381 junior officers are leading the ideas 18:37.381 --> 18:39.548 on tech . And I think that's something 18:39.548 --> 18:41.381 that , that could become part of 18:41.381 --> 18:43.159 training and scaled across most 18:43.159 --> 18:45.319 militaries where senior officers lean 18:45.329 --> 18:47.496 on junior officers for greater insight 18:47.496 --> 18:49.770 on technical matters and if conflict 18:49.780 --> 18:52.329 occurs and we pray it doesn't the same 18:52.339 --> 18:55.099 kind of development and operations and 18:55.250 --> 18:57.250 head now they're now you've already 18:57.250 --> 18:59.417 trained for that . You've prepared for 18:59.417 --> 19:01.410 that . You've uh you've , you've 19:01.420 --> 19:03.587 educated for that . So I think there's 19:03.587 --> 19:05.809 a , there's a great opportunity to , to 19:05.809 --> 19:08.050 make having tech currency being brought 19:08.060 --> 19:10.380 into the units of focus of your first 19:10.390 --> 19:12.501 training efforts . And I think that's 19:12.501 --> 19:14.723 something that , that every nation that 19:14.723 --> 19:16.946 we work with would want to partner with 19:16.946 --> 19:19.279 and try to standardize that so that our , 19:19.279 --> 19:21.446 our , our teams and our units would be 19:21.446 --> 19:23.612 uh interoperable uh in a conflict . So 19:23.612 --> 19:25.779 I think there's a good idea there that 19:25.779 --> 19:28.189 you can focus through a lens based on 19:28.199 --> 19:30.719 what's making innovation go so quickly 19:30.729 --> 19:33.130 in Ukraine . And that's one imperative 19:33.319 --> 19:35.839 to the dev ops , developers and 19:35.849 --> 19:38.579 operators working together . And three , 19:38.589 --> 19:40.645 there are typically a few tech savvy 19:40.645 --> 19:42.645 people in the units who can speak , 19:42.645 --> 19:44.760 tech , speak and help on the rapid 19:44.770 --> 19:46.992 iteration cycles . And that sounds like 19:46.992 --> 19:48.826 something we could codify into a 19:48.826 --> 19:51.510 process that could be scaled . Well , 19:51.520 --> 19:53.310 let me ask you something , the 19:53.319 --> 19:56.650 craziness is going on with Congress 19:56.660 --> 19:59.250 where they won't even consider uh 19:59.260 --> 20:02.280 authorizing money to go to 20:02.469 --> 20:05.949 stop uh to help the Ukraine stop Russia , 20:06.979 --> 20:09.560 our our war fighters , our people on 20:09.569 --> 20:12.000 the ground . What do they think about 20:12.260 --> 20:16.160 the uh domestic political process 20:16.209 --> 20:19.359 and how little we support or do 20:19.369 --> 20:21.319 support their efforts ? 20:23.180 --> 20:25.402 Well , the , you know , our , our units 20:25.402 --> 20:27.780 aren't , aren't there um on the ground , 20:27.790 --> 20:30.089 but I've spoken with many of the 20:30.099 --> 20:32.210 Ukrainian units . Of course , they're 20:32.210 --> 20:35.280 very worried about the West losing 20:35.290 --> 20:38.319 support for funding the war . I think 20:38.329 --> 20:41.010 the lesson we should learn from what's 20:41.020 --> 20:43.319 working in Ukraine that should be in 20:43.329 --> 20:45.385 place right now in the Pentagon , as 20:45.385 --> 20:48.459 well as our Azan partners is Ukraine's 20:48.469 --> 20:51.469 in development mode always and we're in 20:51.479 --> 20:53.701 procurement mode . We're trying to help 20:53.701 --> 20:55.590 them win the war with yesterday's 20:55.590 --> 20:57.800 technology which Russia has already 20:57.810 --> 21:00.640 responded to encountered . And I would 21:00.650 --> 21:02.761 argue there's likely never been a war 21:02.761 --> 21:04.761 in history that's been won with the 21:04.761 --> 21:07.119 equipment that was possessed on day one . 21:07.579 --> 21:09.190 You know , some of the great 21:09.190 --> 21:11.190 innovations of World War Two Barnes 21:11.190 --> 21:13.412 Wallace building the bouncing bombs and 21:13.412 --> 21:15.412 the bunker busters . But these were 21:15.412 --> 21:17.650 developed during the war . And I think 21:17.660 --> 21:19.910 that's the lesson is that as opposed to 21:19.920 --> 21:23.280 trying to squeeze supply chains until 21:23.290 --> 21:25.449 they're dry , we should be going back 21:25.459 --> 21:27.270 to the drawing board with our 21:27.280 --> 21:29.469 innovators that we have quite a few of 21:29.479 --> 21:31.479 in the US and figuring out what new 21:31.479 --> 21:33.750 systems can help them win . That's an 21:33.760 --> 21:35.869 old lesson that the Pentagon should 21:35.880 --> 21:38.569 really relearn because that , that is 21:38.579 --> 21:40.801 what Ukraine is doing day to day . What 21:40.801 --> 21:43.530 they don't have the ability to do is to 21:43.540 --> 21:46.680 think further than like like a month 21:46.689 --> 21:49.040 cycle in some cases , more than a week 21:49.050 --> 21:51.839 cycle . Uh But we do and I think that's 21:51.849 --> 21:53.960 an area that we could really help and 21:53.960 --> 21:55.960 maybe find some more cost effective 21:55.960 --> 21:58.182 solutions that would make supplying the 21:58.182 --> 22:01.650 war more politically uh palatable . But 22:01.660 --> 22:03.604 I think it's critical that Ukraine 22:03.604 --> 22:06.500 prevail in this war , what Russia is 22:06.510 --> 22:08.920 doing is a template for other nations 22:08.930 --> 22:11.339 to follow in future . Thank you so much . 22:11.349 --> 22:13.770 Will I think this has been great so far . 22:14.000 --> 22:16.333 Marina Marina , just one quick question . 22:16.390 --> 22:20.109 It's one thing and Ukraine brings a se 22:20.119 --> 22:22.341 a sense of urgency despite the fact our 22:22.341 --> 22:24.452 troops aren't there . How do you take 22:24.452 --> 22:26.563 this ? And Jesse , this is a question 22:26.563 --> 22:28.508 for you . How do you take this and 22:28.508 --> 22:30.680 create deterrence , which is much more 22:30.689 --> 22:32.911 difficult so that we don't go to war or 22:32.911 --> 22:36.500 not in uh in Taiwan . I don't need , I 22:36.510 --> 22:38.677 don't need you to answer that . I just 22:38.677 --> 22:40.899 have that question out there . That's a 22:40.899 --> 22:43.121 great way to . Thank you , sir . That's 22:43.121 --> 22:45.343 a great way to , to wrap up very , very 22:45.343 --> 22:47.677 short discussion on allies and partners . 22:47.677 --> 22:50.489 Let's shift gears now to incentives and 22:50.500 --> 22:53.089 aligning talent incentives to drive 22:53.099 --> 22:55.989 tech adoption . So I'll turn it over to 22:56.000 --> 22:58.709 Megan to talk to us about the low 22:58.719 --> 23:00.441 hanging fruit when it comes to 23:00.441 --> 23:02.630 incentives for talent . What are we 23:02.640 --> 23:04.529 missing ? What do we should we be 23:04.529 --> 23:06.307 focusing on Megan over to you ? 23:06.307 --> 23:08.418 Fantastic . Thanks so much for having 23:08.418 --> 23:10.640 us . Um So I'm gonna talk about this in 23:10.640 --> 23:12.862 three groups . I'm gonna talk about the 23:12.862 --> 23:14.918 innovative workforce that we do have 23:14.918 --> 23:17.140 the incentives for them , the remaining 23:17.140 --> 23:19.307 workforce that surrounds them and then 23:19.307 --> 23:21.529 the workforce that we need to pull in . 23:21.529 --> 23:25.359 So starting with what I would call the , 23:25.790 --> 23:27.790 the folks that are already in there 23:27.790 --> 23:29.623 taking risk . They're doing more 23:29.623 --> 23:31.068 innovative things . First 23:31.068 --> 23:32.790 recommendation would be around 23:32.790 --> 23:34.846 promotion pathways . So , you know , 23:34.846 --> 23:37.068 will roper talked about codifying these 23:37.068 --> 23:39.068 tech savvy roles , helping create a 23:39.068 --> 23:40.957 tech currency . But currently the 23:40.957 --> 23:43.068 promotion path for that , those types 23:43.068 --> 23:44.901 of skill sets is not immediately 23:44.901 --> 23:47.010 obvious . So when you look at 23:47.020 --> 23:49.410 incentives , a big motivation for 23:49.420 --> 23:51.642 individuals is going to be , you know , 23:51.642 --> 23:54.510 autonomy and mastery . And right now , 23:54.520 --> 23:56.630 some of these roles where they gain 23:56.640 --> 23:59.189 skills become innovative , learn tech , 23:59.199 --> 24:01.088 the technology they need are then 24:01.088 --> 24:02.977 rotated into positions where they 24:02.977 --> 24:05.310 cannot use that skill at all , you know . 24:05.310 --> 24:07.477 So I I joke that someone could go to a 24:07.477 --> 24:09.532 software factory , learn to code and 24:09.532 --> 24:11.199 the next um position might be 24:11.199 --> 24:13.143 collecting your analysis samples , 24:13.143 --> 24:15.366 right ? It doesn't line up . So we need 24:15.366 --> 24:17.421 a better promotion path to help them 24:17.421 --> 24:19.366 retain that mastery that they're , 24:19.366 --> 24:23.209 they're gaining . Um The other is , you 24:23.219 --> 24:25.219 know , around , you know , creating 24:25.219 --> 24:27.552 promotion , aligning it to the outcomes . 24:27.552 --> 24:29.552 And so you can drive accountability 24:29.552 --> 24:31.663 into these roles . So when we look at 24:31.663 --> 24:34.089 the promotion pathways today , it's a 24:34.099 --> 24:36.210 lot on time on schedule , on budget , 24:36.210 --> 24:38.321 but not a lot of the outcomes that we 24:38.321 --> 24:40.432 want to drive by driving innovation . 24:40.432 --> 24:42.377 Um So , you know , keeping the war 24:42.377 --> 24:43.877 fighters safer . So really 24:43.877 --> 24:46.099 understanding the outcomes and aligning 24:46.099 --> 24:48.155 how promotion paths are done against 24:48.155 --> 24:50.377 the outcomes for that . The second I'll 24:50.377 --> 24:52.432 talk about the workforce that has to 24:52.432 --> 24:54.543 surround them . A big challenge right 24:54.543 --> 24:56.710 now is you might have a skill set like 24:56.710 --> 24:58.790 these tech rules or these innovative 24:58.800 --> 25:00.689 individuals that are more forward 25:00.689 --> 25:02.800 leaning and the folks around them are 25:02.800 --> 25:04.579 not sure how to enable them or 25:04.589 --> 25:06.811 weaponize them for what we need them to 25:06.811 --> 25:09.520 do . So it's a really common theme to 25:09.530 --> 25:11.752 say , hey , everyone's just risk averse 25:11.752 --> 25:13.919 and we point our fingers and I like to 25:13.919 --> 25:16.030 say , with all due respect , we built 25:16.030 --> 25:17.641 them this way . So I think a 25:17.641 --> 25:19.641 recommendation would be look at the 25:19.641 --> 25:21.790 training and the upskilling of all of 25:21.800 --> 25:23.967 these careers that are in the critical 25:23.967 --> 25:26.599 path and really audit it to where are 25:26.609 --> 25:28.859 we building in such a risk aversion 25:28.869 --> 25:31.359 along the way , how can we upskill them 25:31.369 --> 25:33.790 on the technology to a level where they 25:33.800 --> 25:35.800 know enough to know how to do their 25:35.800 --> 25:37.969 jobs differently ? Like contracting . 25:37.979 --> 25:40.160 For example , the segment also be 25:40.170 --> 25:42.392 focusing on our senior leaders . Senior 25:42.392 --> 25:44.559 leaders mostly did not come up through 25:44.559 --> 25:46.559 the ranks thinking they're going to 25:46.559 --> 25:48.503 manage major it programs . And now 25:48.503 --> 25:50.670 almost everything is an it program and 25:50.670 --> 25:52.670 how you have to lead that . And the 25:52.670 --> 25:54.726 questions you need to ask has wildly 25:54.726 --> 25:56.989 changed . So assessing how we upskill 25:57.060 --> 25:59.060 the workforce that we have , that's 25:59.060 --> 26:01.550 required to enable those risk takers as 26:01.560 --> 26:03.504 innovators and those technological 26:03.504 --> 26:05.680 skills will be very necessary . The 26:05.689 --> 26:07.745 third will be the the talent that we 26:07.745 --> 26:09.967 need to attract and we need to retain . 26:09.967 --> 26:12.022 So some recommendations I would have 26:12.022 --> 26:14.356 two main ones . One is bridge the skill , 26:14.356 --> 26:16.930 the pay gap so that we can , you know , 26:16.939 --> 26:19.050 be on par , attract talent that might 26:19.050 --> 26:20.939 not have come to the organization 26:20.939 --> 26:22.717 otherwise , especially in those 26:22.717 --> 26:24.790 technical pathways like data science 26:24.800 --> 26:26.967 and software development . And then to 26:26.967 --> 26:29.939 allow for these types of roles to more 26:29.949 --> 26:32.099 easily and fluidly go back out into 26:32.109 --> 26:34.400 industry and come back in so that they 26:34.410 --> 26:36.790 can keep their knowledge fresh , learn 26:36.800 --> 26:38.979 and understand the commercial sector 26:38.989 --> 26:41.100 and things like DEV ops that continue 26:41.100 --> 26:43.045 to evolve and change every day and 26:43.045 --> 26:45.100 bring that knowledge back in without 26:45.100 --> 26:47.369 such a big bureaucratic red tape 26:47.380 --> 26:50.000 barrier in front of them . Um So those 26:50.010 --> 26:52.177 are by three , I would say they're low 26:52.177 --> 26:54.177 hanging fruit , but it doesn't mean 26:54.177 --> 26:56.343 that they are easy , but there's a lot 26:56.343 --> 26:56.020 of opportunity there . 27:00.160 --> 27:02.382 Thank you , Megan . That's a great uh a 27:02.382 --> 27:05.750 great uh way to help us think how to , 27:05.760 --> 27:08.229 to align and focus on the different 27:09.410 --> 27:11.550 areas or categories if you will of 27:11.560 --> 27:14.170 talent that you outlined . And I love 27:14.180 --> 27:16.300 how you highlighted potential uh 27:16.310 --> 27:20.170 recommendations for each . So as we 27:20.180 --> 27:22.236 dig deeper , we know that we have to 27:22.236 --> 27:24.439 incentivize risk taking to ensure that 27:24.449 --> 27:26.671 the leaders across the organization are 27:26.671 --> 27:28.727 rewarded for different approaches to 27:28.727 --> 27:30.829 traditional problems . And uh you 27:30.839 --> 27:33.410 alluded to that earlier . But uh how do 27:33.420 --> 27:36.010 we , how do we dig deeper 27:36.709 --> 27:39.890 into ensuring that we 27:39.900 --> 27:43.829 train calcul our talent to 27:43.839 --> 27:47.160 take calculated risk ? And in my mind 27:47.170 --> 27:49.839 that uh requires leaders that provide 27:49.849 --> 27:51.849 top cover and leaders that are also 27:51.859 --> 27:55.560 trained uh to , to be able to have the 27:55.569 --> 27:57.736 right skills , to be able to cultivate 27:57.736 --> 28:00.520 innovation and uh foster a culture of 28:00.530 --> 28:03.469 change and provide that that necessary 28:03.479 --> 28:06.250 top cover . Let's hear your thoughts of 28:06.260 --> 28:08.439 that as well . Yeah , absolutely . I , 28:08.449 --> 28:10.819 I do think there is a , a great 28:10.829 --> 28:13.439 opportunity at the leadership level to 28:13.449 --> 28:15.750 one help them understand how they're 28:15.760 --> 28:18.130 going to need lip lead differently in a 28:18.140 --> 28:21.540 tech forward environment to understand 28:21.550 --> 28:24.839 what skill sets and what it looks like 28:24.849 --> 28:27.119 to take calculated risks . So they can 28:27.130 --> 28:29.297 provide a left lane and a right lane , 28:29.297 --> 28:32.069 allow them to innovate within but not , 28:32.260 --> 28:34.482 you know , go so far that we are now in 28:34.482 --> 28:36.482 a risky situation . Now with that , 28:36.482 --> 28:38.649 what on earth does risk mean ? I think 28:38.649 --> 28:40.593 there's a lot of retooling to help 28:40.593 --> 28:42.316 understand how to reframe risk 28:42.316 --> 28:44.482 appropriately in a tech driven world . 28:44.482 --> 28:47.000 So how it translates down to staff 28:47.010 --> 28:48.939 might be risk of a protest in a 28:48.949 --> 28:51.270 contract . But all you did was shift 28:51.280 --> 28:53.502 the risk to the people with the most to 28:53.502 --> 28:55.724 lose , which is the people on the front 28:55.724 --> 28:57.780 lines . So when we look at how we're 28:57.780 --> 28:59.891 evaluating leaders and what risk they 28:59.891 --> 29:02.058 are taking , helping leaders learn how 29:02.058 --> 29:04.224 to recalculate , reframe their risk so 29:04.224 --> 29:06.447 that they are taking appropriate levels 29:06.447 --> 29:08.669 of risk . But it's not having an impact 29:08.669 --> 29:10.724 on the mission that we need a lot of 29:10.724 --> 29:12.724 times that connectivity between the 29:12.724 --> 29:14.836 risk aversion and the mission outcome 29:14.836 --> 29:16.947 that they need is not tied together . 29:16.947 --> 29:19.058 So I know that that's a very nebulous 29:19.058 --> 29:21.270 thing . But I think there is a lot of 29:21.280 --> 29:23.949 training , intentional training around 29:23.959 --> 29:26.015 calculated risk , reframing risk and 29:26.015 --> 29:28.969 how to lead more innovative forward 29:28.979 --> 29:31.150 leaning talent differently so that we 29:31.160 --> 29:33.327 aren't , you know , being risk adverse 29:33.327 --> 29:36.640 but in the wrong places . And Michael 29:36.650 --> 29:38.817 Madrid , I know you have some thoughts 29:38.817 --> 29:41.270 around that . For example , uh one 29:41.280 --> 29:44.060 notion is to transform the frozen 29:44.069 --> 29:46.236 middle to these force multipliers that 29:46.236 --> 29:47.958 are actually the ones that are 29:47.958 --> 29:50.125 unleashing innovation because they now 29:50.125 --> 29:52.291 have the skills to be able to foster , 29:52.291 --> 29:54.599 you know , innovative uh risk taking 29:54.709 --> 29:56.709 Michael . What are your thoughts on 29:56.709 --> 29:59.760 that ? Well , um Megan and I actually 29:59.770 --> 30:02.048 didn't have a lot of pre coordinations , 30:02.048 --> 30:04.270 but you'll see a lot of themes that are 30:04.270 --> 30:06.214 coming between uh our thoughts and 30:06.214 --> 30:06.060 there's probably three things I would 30:06.069 --> 30:08.236 highlight . But first , let me just go 30:08.236 --> 30:10.125 back to something you mentioned , 30:10.125 --> 30:12.291 Marina , you , you mentioned top cover 30:12.291 --> 30:14.458 um and in my experience , um top cover 30:14.458 --> 30:16.513 necessary but insufficient , right ? 30:16.513 --> 30:18.625 It's actually um it's quite necessary 30:18.625 --> 30:20.569 and quite helpful to have a senior 30:20.569 --> 30:22.680 leader like a flag officer um embrace 30:22.680 --> 30:25.209 an innovation program or uh recommend 30:25.219 --> 30:27.108 uh you know , a junior officer or 30:27.108 --> 30:29.330 enlisted person who has a bright idea . 30:29.330 --> 30:31.441 Um but has actually historically been 30:31.441 --> 30:33.219 insufficient for that person to 30:33.219 --> 30:35.441 actually go and make change because the 30:35.441 --> 30:37.719 flag officers and have the the time or , 30:37.719 --> 30:37.489 and it's not their responsibility to 30:37.500 --> 30:39.778 kind of handhold that solution through . 30:39.778 --> 30:42.056 And so there are a lot of other people , 30:42.056 --> 30:44.111 Marina , you're referring to them as 30:44.111 --> 30:46.222 the frozen Middle that play a role in 30:46.222 --> 30:45.630 whether or not those kinds of 30:45.640 --> 30:47.862 innovative solutions . See the light of 30:47.862 --> 30:50.084 day . Um And so I'm thinking about sort 30:50.084 --> 30:52.251 of incentives for people throughout um 30:52.251 --> 30:54.473 the organization including the Middle . 30:54.473 --> 30:54.199 Um There's three things that came to my 30:54.209 --> 30:56.109 mind . The first is to um just 30:56.119 --> 30:58.230 establish the golden career path . Um 30:58.230 --> 31:00.397 Megan and others have highlighted this 31:00.397 --> 31:02.397 already . Um And allow those who do 31:02.397 --> 31:04.508 innovation assignments or who kind of 31:04.508 --> 31:06.675 strayed from the very typical military 31:06.675 --> 31:08.452 career , allow them to continue 31:08.452 --> 31:10.508 progressing in their field if that's 31:10.508 --> 31:10.250 what they want to do . And I think part 31:10.260 --> 31:12.316 of this is looking at the metrics by 31:12.316 --> 31:14.699 which we measure our personnel , um and 31:14.709 --> 31:16.930 how we evaluate them and think about 31:16.939 --> 31:18.619 what those evaluation metrics 31:18.630 --> 31:20.869 incentivize or disincentivize . And 31:20.880 --> 31:23.102 there's both positive and negative ways 31:23.102 --> 31:25.102 to incentivize people . And I would 31:25.102 --> 31:27.269 actually um put forth an argument that 31:27.269 --> 31:29.436 people who are naturally innovative or 31:29.436 --> 31:31.658 innovators don't need a lot of positive 31:31.658 --> 31:31.560 reinforcement . We've seen programs 31:31.569 --> 31:33.625 throughout the years that offer cash 31:33.625 --> 31:35.791 bonuses for innovative ideas or try to 31:35.791 --> 31:37.736 reward people for doing innovative 31:37.736 --> 31:39.847 things . But I think if you have that 31:39.847 --> 31:41.625 bug , you are dying to go do it 31:41.625 --> 31:43.625 yourself and you actually just need 31:43.625 --> 31:45.791 things to get out of your way . And so 31:45.791 --> 31:44.905 really , I think more about the 31:44.915 --> 31:47.082 negative incentives , we need to avoid 31:47.082 --> 31:49.248 unintentionally punishing those people 31:49.248 --> 31:51.582 who go to innovative things or limiting , 31:51.582 --> 31:53.804 limiting their career or limiting their 31:53.804 --> 31:55.693 opportunities because that's when 31:55.693 --> 31:57.637 either they innovate and then they 31:57.637 --> 31:59.582 decide to get out or they have the 31:59.582 --> 32:01.804 impulse to innovate , but they restrain 32:01.804 --> 32:04.026 that impulse because they don't want to 32:04.026 --> 32:03.949 be outside the norm . Um , so that's 32:03.959 --> 32:05.848 the first thing is thinking about 32:05.848 --> 32:07.848 career paths . Um , the second uh , 32:07.848 --> 32:09.737 thing would be around celebrating 32:09.737 --> 32:11.903 stories of smart risk taking even when 32:11.903 --> 32:14.126 it doesn't work out well . I think this 32:14.126 --> 32:13.479 is one of those things that aligns 32:13.489 --> 32:15.711 really well with what Megan was talking 32:15.711 --> 32:17.489 about defining where feeling is 32:17.489 --> 32:19.600 acceptable . Um And in fact necessary 32:19.600 --> 32:21.767 for learning and for moving with speed 32:21.767 --> 32:23.878 in those arenas where failure is OK , 32:23.878 --> 32:26.045 actually celebrate that because people 32:26.045 --> 32:28.156 need to see examples of taking a risk 32:28.156 --> 32:30.322 and not losing your job or having your 32:30.322 --> 32:32.378 career ended because you took a risk 32:32.378 --> 32:34.378 and it didn't work out . We have to 32:34.378 --> 32:36.545 combat the notion that quote unquote , 32:36.545 --> 32:36.270 nobody ever got fired for picking 32:36.280 --> 32:38.880 through Grumman , right ? Um And so the 32:38.890 --> 32:40.668 third thing I would say is also 32:40.668 --> 32:42.557 exposing people to what good risk 32:42.557 --> 32:44.501 taking environments look like . So 32:44.501 --> 32:46.390 whether it's the frozen middle or 32:46.390 --> 32:46.170 anywhere in the stack of the 32:46.180 --> 32:48.124 organization , show them what good 32:48.124 --> 32:50.180 looks like . We have experimented in 32:50.180 --> 32:51.958 the dod with various tours with 32:51.958 --> 32:54.013 industry um tours with start ups and 32:54.013 --> 32:56.236 betting people with venture capitalists 32:56.236 --> 32:58.402 who do smart risks taking all the time 32:58.402 --> 33:00.458 as their day . Job . Um , you may be 33:00.458 --> 32:59.770 familiar with the Defense Ventures 32:59.780 --> 33:01.836 program and it's an incredible shame 33:01.836 --> 33:04.002 that that program ended recently and a 33:04.002 --> 33:06.058 works didn't renew the contract when 33:06.058 --> 33:08.113 there's an incredible body of people 33:08.113 --> 33:10.058 who have gone through that program 33:10.058 --> 33:12.224 return to service . Um , in the data . 33:12.224 --> 33:14.280 They say they're more , they're more 33:14.280 --> 33:14.150 likely to stay in the , in the duty 33:14.160 --> 33:16.327 longer having had that experience . It 33:16.327 --> 33:18.438 doesn't excel their , their exit from 33:18.438 --> 33:20.604 the DD , but rather they , they go see 33:20.604 --> 33:22.716 what good looks like at organizations 33:22.716 --> 33:24.938 from Amazon to Andro . Um and , and all 33:24.938 --> 33:27.049 sorts of organizations in between and 33:27.049 --> 33:29.104 then investors who do risk taking um 33:29.104 --> 33:31.160 every day . So show people what good 33:31.160 --> 33:33.160 looks like , celebrate the failures 33:33.160 --> 33:32.880 when they're acceptable . Um And think 33:32.890 --> 33:35.112 about what the career path looks like . 33:35.349 --> 33:37.589 Thanks Michael . That , that actually 33:37.599 --> 33:39.488 highlights you , you talked about 33:39.488 --> 33:41.655 rewarding and recognizing innovators , 33:41.655 --> 33:43.770 whether they're winning or whether 33:43.780 --> 33:46.002 they're failing and making sure that uh 33:46.199 --> 33:49.109 that we , we've established metrics to 33:49.119 --> 33:51.119 do that . And that brings us to our 33:51.119 --> 33:53.790 final question that I'd like to ask Ian 33:53.800 --> 33:55.967 to address , which is how do we know , 33:55.967 --> 33:58.189 how do we know we're being successful ? 33:58.189 --> 34:00.244 What are some of the metrics that we 34:00.244 --> 34:04.060 can incorporate to , to make sure 34:04.069 --> 34:06.180 that in the short term and the longer 34:06.180 --> 34:08.347 term we are , we are measuring success 34:08.347 --> 34:10.560 and con continue to iterate so that we 34:10.570 --> 34:13.000 can , we can continue improve , 34:13.110 --> 34:15.443 improving and scaling over to you , Ian . 34:15.459 --> 34:17.292 No , I , I really appreciate the 34:17.292 --> 34:19.292 question and I appreciate the , the 34:19.292 --> 34:21.515 Defense Innovation Board's time today . 34:21.515 --> 34:23.737 Um I think one thing we have to do when 34:23.737 --> 34:25.959 we talk about incentives and uh we have 34:25.959 --> 34:25.899 to separate the organization from the 34:25.909 --> 34:27.909 innovators themselves . And so , um 34:27.909 --> 34:30.076 what is the measure of success for the 34:30.076 --> 34:32.242 organization ? Well , I think the fact 34:32.242 --> 34:34.298 that uh uh a fellowship program that 34:34.298 --> 34:36.465 kind of offered um really fast dynamic 34:36.465 --> 34:38.465 fellowships to people to bring them 34:38.465 --> 34:40.242 back into service as opposed to 34:40.242 --> 34:42.242 something like skill bridge where , 34:42.242 --> 34:41.879 which is a great program , by the way , 34:41.889 --> 34:43.833 where you , you do this work , you 34:43.833 --> 34:46.056 learn this industry and then you go out 34:46.056 --> 34:48.222 use that during your transition , it's 34:48.222 --> 34:47.945 much different to bring that knowledge 34:47.955 --> 34:50.122 and network back to your unit . And so 34:50.122 --> 34:52.794 we have uh this , this major offering 34:52.824 --> 34:54.768 um that got canceled . And I think 34:54.768 --> 34:56.713 that's a , a view of the metric of 34:56.713 --> 34:58.864 success of the organization to take 34:58.885 --> 35:01.084 something that was working and is part 35:01.094 --> 35:03.834 of the new NDA A language . Um Part of 35:03.844 --> 35:05.844 everything that's coming out of the 35:05.844 --> 35:07.900 National Defense Strategy um and the 35:07.900 --> 35:10.122 National Defense Authorization Act . Um 35:10.122 --> 35:12.066 and yet it died and it died due to 35:12.066 --> 35:14.334 organizational um plaque , probably 35:14.909 --> 35:17.131 there's lots of different stories about 35:17.131 --> 35:19.298 why . But I think we have to make sure 35:19.298 --> 35:21.520 we separate is the organization um as a 35:21.520 --> 35:23.631 whole . And that could be at the OS D 35:23.631 --> 35:23.060 level , you know , something like this 35:23.070 --> 35:25.237 could turn into a micro sector fellows 35:25.237 --> 35:27.014 program . But you need to house 35:27.014 --> 35:29.237 something at a level that has the right 35:29.237 --> 35:31.403 authority and budget to make sure that 35:31.403 --> 35:33.626 it continues . Um We separate that from 35:33.626 --> 35:35.792 the metrics of six for the innovator . 35:35.792 --> 35:37.959 Um We've got a lot of founders in this 35:37.959 --> 35:39.903 room . We have a lot of innovative 35:39.903 --> 35:39.469 people , you know , on the call , 35:39.479 --> 35:41.535 talking about this today . And if we 35:41.535 --> 35:43.701 think about it , the metric of success 35:43.701 --> 35:45.646 for an innovator is not , did your 35:45.646 --> 35:47.812 ideas succeed ? Because you , you have 35:47.812 --> 35:49.868 to understand that 95% of your ideas 35:49.868 --> 35:52.035 fail . Now , as long as you learn from 35:52.035 --> 35:54.257 those ideas , that's one metric and the 35:54.257 --> 35:56.368 velocity of ideas and the velocity at 35:56.368 --> 35:58.535 which you're able to bring those ideas 35:58.535 --> 36:00.757 and learn from them um is a huge metric 36:00.757 --> 36:00.320 of success . It's also a metric of 36:00.330 --> 36:02.497 success , not just for the innovator , 36:02.497 --> 36:04.663 but back to the organization . Because 36:04.663 --> 36:06.830 if I'm able to continually bring ideas 36:06.830 --> 36:08.997 up in this organization succeed , fail 36:08.997 --> 36:10.997 good ideas , bad ideas , it doesn't 36:10.997 --> 36:13.108 matter . As long as I'm able to bring 36:13.108 --> 36:12.939 them forward , it means that I've got a 36:12.949 --> 36:15.116 culture and I've got an organizational 36:15.116 --> 36:17.282 structure that allows that to happen . 36:17.282 --> 36:19.505 Um And then I reframe everything that , 36:19.505 --> 36:21.671 uh you know , my team has said today , 36:21.671 --> 36:23.727 the fact that uh we don't , money is 36:23.727 --> 36:25.949 great as long as you have enough to not 36:25.949 --> 36:25.425 worry about your family . After that , 36:25.435 --> 36:27.657 it's just being able to do great things 36:27.657 --> 36:29.768 and use the thing that you're good at 36:29.768 --> 36:31.879 um to help the overall organization . 36:31.879 --> 36:33.991 That's why our people serve , whether 36:33.991 --> 36:36.157 that's active duty , reserves Guard or 36:36.157 --> 36:35.774 civilian force , but they are here to 36:35.784 --> 36:37.895 serve . And so let's let them do what 36:37.895 --> 36:40.620 they're good at . Thank you so much , 36:40.629 --> 36:44.370 Ian . So this , in this uh uh section 36:44.379 --> 36:46.435 we heard about , we heard from Megan 36:46.435 --> 36:48.657 talking about upskilling and reskilling 36:48.657 --> 36:50.823 our talent and focusing on talent . We 36:50.823 --> 36:52.879 heard from Michael Madrid that uh uh 36:52.879 --> 36:54.601 top cover is necessary but not 36:54.601 --> 36:56.601 sufficient . And then we also heard 36:56.601 --> 36:58.379 from uh Ian on how we should be 36:58.379 --> 37:00.300 thinking about separating uh the 37:00.310 --> 37:02.532 metrics of success for the organization 37:02.639 --> 37:04.750 and make them outcomes driven for the 37:04.750 --> 37:07.179 war fighter and for the individual . So 37:07.189 --> 37:09.939 we'll , we'll pause here and open it up 37:09.949 --> 37:13.199 for , for questions , uh Mike , uh uh 37:13.209 --> 37:16.560 Mr Chair over to you for uh to take the 37:16.570 --> 37:19.310 uh Q and A here for this section . And 37:19.320 --> 37:21.376 I think we've heard a lot today that 37:21.376 --> 37:23.542 will help inform our current studies , 37:23.542 --> 37:25.653 Sue Gordon . Do you have anything you 37:25.653 --> 37:27.876 wanna say ? Yeah , just one quick one . 37:27.876 --> 37:30.042 I , I love so many of these ideas . Um 37:30.042 --> 37:32.098 I love the upskilling , including uh 37:32.098 --> 37:35.419 senior leaders um to be able to 37:35.429 --> 37:38.439 understand technology because generally 37:38.800 --> 37:40.790 what I experience is they view new 37:40.800 --> 37:42.578 technology as additive risk and 37:42.578 --> 37:44.633 sometimes it's not additive risk and 37:44.633 --> 37:46.633 that's hard to discern . So it just 37:46.633 --> 37:48.522 kind of stops there . But I would 37:48.522 --> 37:50.689 encourage you to , I love the topic of 37:50.689 --> 37:53.600 risk . I think it is a complex one and 37:53.610 --> 37:55.610 I think it's complex for innovators 37:55.610 --> 37:57.666 because someone who builds something 37:57.666 --> 37:59.666 thinks that risk is their thing not 37:59.666 --> 38:02.379 working . And an operator often views 38:02.389 --> 38:05.469 risk as losing the opportunity to do 38:05.479 --> 38:08.090 something again . So you might want to 38:08.100 --> 38:10.120 think about this risk in a 38:10.129 --> 38:12.199 bidirectional way . Maybe there's 38:12.209 --> 38:14.320 something that goes to the innovators 38:14.320 --> 38:17.250 to have more exposure to a different 38:17.260 --> 38:19.899 kind of risk equation . That sometimes 38:19.909 --> 38:23.560 is what seizes the system from putting 38:23.570 --> 38:25.792 it in . But I love where you're going . 38:25.792 --> 38:29.050 Y'all . Uh Sue , I'd also uh be remiss 38:29.060 --> 38:31.171 if I didn't say our thoughts are with 38:31.171 --> 38:34.699 you and uh sue lost uh her husband uh 38:34.709 --> 38:37.770 about 30 days ago . And uh you're nice 38:37.780 --> 38:39.891 to come and participate and thank you 38:39.891 --> 38:41.891 for everything you've done for this 38:41.891 --> 38:44.058 country and everything that he did for 38:44.058 --> 38:46.169 this country . So , uh we're a bit of 38:46.169 --> 38:48.058 country because because of this , 38:48.090 --> 38:50.257 thanks , Mike Jim was truly one of the 38:50.257 --> 38:54.199 great innovators in our community and 38:54.209 --> 38:56.469 it's because he never believed that 38:56.479 --> 38:58.701 anything should stop good out from comp 38:58.701 --> 39:01.270 happening . So you're keeping that 39:01.280 --> 39:04.709 going um for everyone 39:04.719 --> 39:06.860 watching online , uh mark your 39:06.870 --> 39:10.229 calendars Wednesday , April 17th is 39:10.239 --> 39:12.128 when the board will hold our next 39:12.128 --> 39:14.072 public meeting . And we're looking 39:14.072 --> 39:17.030 forward to it until then all the best 39:17.040 --> 39:20.300 Marina over to you . Thank you , my 39:20.310 --> 39:22.770 great conversation . So we have a few 39:22.780 --> 39:25.649 minutes left and uh I wanted to 39:25.659 --> 39:27.715 highlight that . Uh we did receive a 39:27.715 --> 39:29.929 few comments uh they have have been 39:29.939 --> 39:32.379 posted in uh in uh our 39:32.389 --> 39:36.000 on our web page . And I just wanted to 39:36.010 --> 39:38.489 highlight uh that uh the comments we 39:38.500 --> 39:40.500 received actually resonate with the 39:40.500 --> 39:42.556 discussion today a lot around talent 39:42.556 --> 39:44.611 management . And how can we maintain 39:44.611 --> 39:46.722 the competence , the edge in not only 39:46.722 --> 39:48.944 the talent we have today , but also the 39:48.944 --> 39:51.000 talent we need to bring in . So that 39:51.000 --> 39:53.056 alludes to some of the comments that 39:53.056 --> 39:56.030 Megan was making , we have uh comments 39:56.040 --> 39:58.310 about the adoption of new technologies 39:58.320 --> 39:59.987 and that pace . And how do we 39:59.987 --> 40:01.987 accelerate the pace , which is very 40:01.987 --> 40:04.153 much at the crux of , of uh what we're 40:04.153 --> 40:06.376 looking at in the incentive study . And 40:06.376 --> 40:09.370 uh also an idea about uh borrowed from 40:09.379 --> 40:11.469 the Australian Defense Forces about 40:11.479 --> 40:14.149 doing a 12 month enlistment and during 40:14.159 --> 40:17.439 the gap year uh for graduates , high 40:17.449 --> 40:19.282 school graduates before going to 40:19.282 --> 40:21.949 college . So some interesting ideas , 40:21.959 --> 40:24.780 we encourage our , the citizens and 40:24.790 --> 40:27.379 everyone within , within the dod 40:27.389 --> 40:29.530 national security network to continue 40:29.540 --> 40:32.110 sharing your thoughts and insights . We , 40:32.120 --> 40:34.120 the dip is listening and so we look 40:34.120 --> 40:37.530 forward to , to receiving those . And 40:37.540 --> 40:40.969 um and uh next , um 40:41.909 --> 40:45.169 we're uh almost at the very end of uh 40:45.179 --> 40:48.639 of our um uh session here 40:48.649 --> 40:50.770 today , Mike , did you have any 40:50.780 --> 40:53.113 additional thoughts you wanted to share ? 40:53.113 --> 40:56.419 Uh looking ahead uh only 40:56.429 --> 41:00.409 that um uh Mike Mullen can add a lot . 41:00.419 --> 41:03.729 Uh But uh I just wanted to say that uh 41:03.870 --> 41:06.100 we are very lucky to be able to serve 41:06.110 --> 41:07.999 and help the country and help our 41:07.999 --> 41:11.709 military . Uh , our security , our 41:11.719 --> 41:15.239 future is in their hands and they 41:15.250 --> 41:17.239 are , uh , ill appreciated 41:17.250 --> 41:19.760 unfortunately . Uh , but , uh , those 41:19.770 --> 41:21.770 of us that , uh , have watched them 41:21.770 --> 41:23.714 understand the sacrifices they and 41:23.714 --> 41:26.199 their families make so that we , every 41:26.209 --> 41:28.439 day can go about our business . Uh , 41:28.449 --> 41:30.782 Mike Mullen . Do you wanna add anything ? 41:30.820 --> 41:32.709 No , I don't think I couldn't , I 41:32.709 --> 41:35.042 couldn't have said it any better . Mike . 41:35.042 --> 41:37.209 I , I appreciate the ideas . The , the 41:37.209 --> 41:39.431 difficulty here is how do you translate 41:39.431 --> 41:39.429 great ideas into , you know , 41:39.439 --> 41:41.760 operational effect , uh you know , tied 41:41.770 --> 41:43.937 to that mission and , and it is a huge 41:43.937 --> 41:45.881 challenge . But , but that's the , 41:45.881 --> 41:48.110 that's the motivation for all of us 41:48.120 --> 41:50.120 here is to try to figure out how to 41:50.120 --> 41:52.287 support those that are making , making 41:52.287 --> 41:55.120 our country uh more safe . 42:00.219 --> 42:02.275 Yes , I was wondering if Charles had 42:02.275 --> 42:04.330 any additional thoughts he wanted to 42:04.330 --> 42:06.552 share Charles . Yeah , I was just going 42:06.552 --> 42:08.775 that , that I was down last week at the 42:08.775 --> 42:10.886 Pentagon . I met with Doctor Su and , 42:10.886 --> 42:12.830 and uh Doctor Ham as well . We are 42:12.830 --> 42:14.830 making progress on working with our 42:14.830 --> 42:16.886 allies and partners and they gave me 42:16.886 --> 42:18.830 many examples over 100 programs of 42:18.830 --> 42:21.159 where we've discovered technology at an 42:21.169 --> 42:23.058 ally and brought it to the US and 42:23.058 --> 42:25.169 manufactured it here and vice versa . 42:25.639 --> 42:27.750 Uh What we're missing is scale though 42:27.750 --> 42:29.695 because that's been driven by them 42:29.695 --> 42:31.917 personally . And so it needs to be more 42:31.917 --> 42:34.028 programmatic , but I was surprised at 42:34.028 --> 42:36.083 how much it happens . There's some , 42:36.083 --> 42:38.306 you know , kind of embedded barriers as 42:38.306 --> 42:40.195 you might expect around it . A or 42:40.195 --> 42:42.417 requirements that we have and they have 42:42.417 --> 42:44.528 similar requirements , uh regulations 42:44.528 --> 42:46.583 in their countries , maybe those two 42:46.583 --> 42:48.583 things could come together . But uh 42:48.583 --> 42:50.806 there's a lot going on and , but it all 42:50.806 --> 42:52.750 boiled down to trust . So where we 42:52.750 --> 42:54.972 started the discussion around people on 42:54.972 --> 42:56.639 the ground and the ally being 42:56.639 --> 42:58.861 comfortable turning technology over and 42:58.861 --> 43:00.972 discussing it . If you have people on 43:00.972 --> 43:00.330 the ground there , which is how this 43:00.340 --> 43:02.451 happened . And therefore a while they 43:02.451 --> 43:04.396 build those relationships , people 43:04.396 --> 43:06.396 start to share their ideas and what 43:06.396 --> 43:06.389 they're working on it . And we've done 43:06.399 --> 43:08.566 it with our close allies . Obviously , 43:08.566 --> 43:10.732 that's where you start with the UK and 43:10.732 --> 43:12.788 Canada and Australia . But if we can 43:12.788 --> 43:14.899 have more people on the ground to our 43:14.899 --> 43:16.899 earlier discussions , it seems like 43:16.899 --> 43:16.469 things like that would happen beyond 43:16.479 --> 43:18.757 just the relationships and the culture , 43:18.757 --> 43:20.590 you actually get to all sorts of 43:20.590 --> 43:22.701 technology and data sharing as well . 43:24.340 --> 43:28.189 Thank you John . And with that , 43:28.199 --> 43:31.030 we are actually coming to a close for 43:31.040 --> 43:33.262 today's meeting . We greatly appreciate 43:33.262 --> 43:35.262 the defense entrepreneurs forum for 43:35.262 --> 43:37.373 joining us today . We appreciate your 43:37.373 --> 43:39.373 time and comments and insights . We 43:39.373 --> 43:41.151 hope that these are going to be 43:41.151 --> 43:43.318 valuable to inform our board members , 43:43.318 --> 43:45.500 insights on uh the current studies . 43:45.739 --> 43:47.939 And with that , uh I'll turn it back 43:47.949 --> 43:49.949 over to you , Mike for your closing 43:49.949 --> 43:53.149 comments . Uh had my closing comments 43:53.159 --> 43:56.350 and , uh , think it's time for us to uh , 43:56.360 --> 43:58.989 get back to work . All right , thanks 43:59.000 --> 44:01.000 everyone . And , uh , we'll see you 44:01.000 --> 44:01.550 soon . Take care .