WEBVTT 00:00.319 --> 00:02.829 Committee will come to order . Uh Today , 00:02.839 --> 00:05.630 we will continue our posture hearings 00:05.639 --> 00:06.639 with uconn . 00:09.460 --> 00:12.079 I'll remind members when uh we adjourn 00:12.090 --> 00:14.257 the hearing , we will immediately move 00:14.257 --> 00:16.620 upstairs for the uh closed briefing . I 00:16.629 --> 00:18.629 wanna thank our witnesses for being 00:18.629 --> 00:20.518 here and for their service to our 00:20.518 --> 00:22.573 nation . The United States is moving 00:22.573 --> 00:24.685 into an era of unprecedented danger . 00:25.040 --> 00:26.984 We've heard from the commanders of 00:26.984 --> 00:29.250 South com Africom , Centcom and Indo 00:29.270 --> 00:32.340 Paycom . They each raise grave concerns 00:32.349 --> 00:34.580 about how China , Russia , Iran and 00:34.590 --> 00:37.389 North Korea are working together to 00:37.400 --> 00:39.619 reduce America's global influence , 00:39.630 --> 00:41.990 harm our alliances and undermine our 00:42.000 --> 00:44.889 national security . Nowhere is that 00:44.900 --> 00:48.229 more apparent than in Ukraine , 00:48.740 --> 00:51.369 Iran and North Korea are arming Russia 00:51.380 --> 00:54.240 with deadly effect . In return , they 00:54.250 --> 00:56.472 are receiving advanced technologies and 00:56.472 --> 00:59.159 other illegal aid from Putin . And 00:59.169 --> 01:01.169 while China has yet has not yet 01:01.180 --> 01:03.639 provided weapons to Russia , Z is 01:03.650 --> 01:05.889 providing Putin critical economic and 01:05.900 --> 01:08.650 security assistance . This includes 01:08.660 --> 01:10.879 dual use materials and components for 01:10.889 --> 01:14.519 weapons . Kim Z and Ayatollah are 01:14.529 --> 01:16.640 eagerly aiding and abetting . Putin's 01:16.640 --> 01:19.400 brutal invasion of Ukraine because they 01:19.410 --> 01:21.620 know a Russian victory there will 01:21.629 --> 01:23.989 seriously undercut the credibility of 01:24.000 --> 01:26.029 American deterrence and leave our 01:26.040 --> 01:29.519 security partners exposed . It is the 01:29.529 --> 01:32.000 green light , these despots have been 01:32.010 --> 01:35.660 craving for for decades . A Russian 01:35.669 --> 01:38.050 victory will embolden Kim Z and the 01:38.059 --> 01:40.239 Ayatollah to confront South Korea 01:40.250 --> 01:42.699 Taiwan , Israel and ultimately the 01:42.709 --> 01:45.559 United States in a new and fatal in new 01:45.569 --> 01:47.839 and fatal ways . And I fear Putin will 01:47.849 --> 01:49.516 use a victory in Ukraine as a 01:49.516 --> 01:52.220 springboard to invade Eastern Europe . 01:53.040 --> 01:56.010 We can't let that happen . We must 01:56.019 --> 01:58.241 restore American deterrence . It starts 01:58.241 --> 02:00.075 with this administration finally 02:00.075 --> 02:02.639 articulating a winning strategy since 02:02.650 --> 02:04.483 the start of the war . President 02:04.483 --> 02:06.706 Biden's Ukraine policy has been plagued 02:06.706 --> 02:08.706 by hesitation . Every major weapons 02:08.706 --> 02:10.817 system the United States has provided 02:11.029 --> 02:13.479 from stingers to Abrams to attack them 02:13.759 --> 02:16.380 only came after serious congressional 02:16.389 --> 02:19.029 pressure and it usually arrived months 02:19.039 --> 02:21.850 late and in insufficient numbers , the 02:21.860 --> 02:23.804 president's hand wringing has only 02:23.804 --> 02:26.027 prolonged the war and driven up cost in 02:26.027 --> 02:28.460 terms of dollars and lives . Meanwhile , 02:28.470 --> 02:30.526 the US sanctions have failed to make 02:30.526 --> 02:32.889 much of a dent in Putin's war machine . 02:33.639 --> 02:36.119 The president's use , uh the president 02:36.130 --> 02:38.019 should use the billions frozen in 02:38.019 --> 02:41.020 Russian assets to support Ukraine and 02:41.029 --> 02:43.649 he should arm Ukraine at the speed of 02:43.660 --> 02:46.059 relevance . But in order for that to 02:46.070 --> 02:48.070 happen , Congress needs to pass the 02:48.070 --> 02:50.660 national security supplemental if the 02:50.669 --> 02:52.447 United States is unable to send 02:52.447 --> 02:54.820 additional weapons to Ukraine , Putin 02:54.830 --> 02:57.729 will win . And I would remind my 02:57.740 --> 02:59.796 colleagues that nearly all the money 02:59.796 --> 03:01.907 we're spending to arm Ukraine doesn't 03:01.907 --> 03:04.240 leave this country . It goes directly 03:04.250 --> 03:06.472 to us companies and American workers to 03:06.472 --> 03:08.694 produce more weapons at a faster pace . 03:08.830 --> 03:10.729 This funding is revitalizing our 03:10.740 --> 03:13.509 defense industrial base after decades 03:13.520 --> 03:16.699 of atrophy . It's exactly what we need 03:16.710 --> 03:18.543 to do to prepare for a potential 03:18.543 --> 03:21.130 conflict with China , but we can't do 03:21.139 --> 03:23.250 it all . The president needs to force 03:23.250 --> 03:25.809 our European allies to do more while 03:25.820 --> 03:27.880 the UK , Poland and B and the Baltic 03:27.889 --> 03:29.778 States and the Czech Republic are 03:29.778 --> 03:31.722 punching well above their weight . 03:31.850 --> 03:34.017 There are some European countries that 03:34.017 --> 03:37.570 can and must do more . We all want this 03:37.580 --> 03:39.949 war to end but that can't happen if the 03:39.960 --> 03:42.830 West hedges . If Putin thinks he can 03:42.839 --> 03:44.950 win , he won't come to the bargaining 03:44.950 --> 03:47.300 table . The quickest way to end this 03:47.309 --> 03:49.309 conflict is to strengthen Ukraine's 03:49.309 --> 03:51.449 negotiating position by ensuring they 03:51.460 --> 03:53.979 are well armed and well supplied . I 03:53.990 --> 03:55.768 look forward to working with my 03:55.768 --> 03:57.934 colleagues to do just that . Finally , 03:57.934 --> 04:00.046 last week marked the 75th anniversary 04:00.046 --> 04:02.899 of the founding of NATO . NATO has been 04:02.910 --> 04:04.830 enormously successful at keeping 04:04.839 --> 04:07.229 America and our allies secure in 04:07.240 --> 04:09.479 providing the deterrence necessary to 04:09.490 --> 04:12.600 avoid another world war . But as we 04:12.610 --> 04:15.300 enter this new era where China , Russia , 04:15.309 --> 04:17.142 Iran and North Korea are working 04:17.142 --> 04:19.253 together to flaunt international laws 04:19.253 --> 04:21.899 and destabilize whole regions . NATO 04:21.910 --> 04:24.899 needs to broaden its focus , it needs 04:24.910 --> 04:27.130 to secure its supply chains and reduce 04:27.140 --> 04:29.307 its dependency on China and Russia for 04:29.307 --> 04:31.730 goods and energy and all NATO nations 04:31.739 --> 04:33.961 must meet their requirement to spend at 04:33.961 --> 04:37.170 least 2% of their GDP on defense with a 04:37.179 --> 04:39.179 war raging in eastern Europe . It's 04:39.179 --> 04:41.123 entirely unacceptable that a dozen 04:41.123 --> 04:44.630 nations are still falling short when 04:44.640 --> 04:46.929 NATO meets in Washington this summer , 04:46.940 --> 04:48.996 the president should insist , should 04:48.996 --> 04:51.630 demand these nations present a clear 04:51.640 --> 04:54.339 plan on how they will meet the 2% 04:54.350 --> 04:57.380 benchmark as soon as possible . Every 04:57.390 --> 04:59.279 member state needs to fulfill its 04:59.279 --> 05:01.501 commitment because now more than ever , 05:01.501 --> 05:03.668 we need a strong NATO . I look forward 05:03.668 --> 05:05.668 to our discussion today and hearing 05:05.668 --> 05:07.890 from our witnesses about their security 05:07.890 --> 05:10.057 posture in uh Europe . And with that , 05:10.057 --> 05:09.700 I yield to my friend and colleague , 05:09.709 --> 05:12.339 the ranking member . Thank you , Mr 05:12.350 --> 05:14.461 Chairman II . I agree with almost all 05:14.461 --> 05:16.017 of what the chairman said , 05:16.017 --> 05:18.072 particularly about the importance of 05:18.072 --> 05:20.294 NATO and the importance of the fight in 05:20.294 --> 05:22.461 Ukraine . I definitely look forward to 05:22.461 --> 05:24.683 hearing from our witnesses who are very 05:24.683 --> 05:24.019 well positioned to update us on the 05:24.029 --> 05:26.140 specifics of that fight and on the on 05:26.140 --> 05:28.029 the alliance that is pushing back 05:28.029 --> 05:30.459 against Russia's invasion of Ukraine . 05:30.549 --> 05:32.438 And I will just right off the top 05:32.438 --> 05:34.660 footstep the point , you know , the the 05:34.660 --> 05:37.540 house has waited months now to approve 05:37.549 --> 05:39.605 the security package to help protect 05:39.605 --> 05:42.339 Ukraine . Um you know , weeks ago , we 05:42.350 --> 05:45.920 were too late . Um And now every day is 05:45.929 --> 05:48.459 at an extreme cost to our ability to 05:48.470 --> 05:50.790 deter Russia , to deter Russia and 05:50.799 --> 05:53.021 Ukraine . But as the chairman correctly 05:53.021 --> 05:55.077 pointed out to deter the whole broad 05:55.077 --> 05:57.450 alliance that is trying to basically , 05:57.459 --> 05:59.899 you know , tear down the international 06:00.029 --> 06:03.250 rules based system , all of that pushes 06:03.260 --> 06:06.160 them forward . So we have the bill , 06:06.170 --> 06:08.579 the Senate bill uh that we can pass . I 06:08.589 --> 06:10.811 would urge every member of this body to 06:10.811 --> 06:13.679 ask the speaker and implore the speaker 06:13.690 --> 06:16.440 to bring that up for a vote . It would 06:16.450 --> 06:18.450 pass the house and be signed by the 06:18.450 --> 06:21.079 president in short order . All we need 06:21.089 --> 06:23.359 is , is a little democracy . Uh give us 06:23.369 --> 06:25.591 the chance to vote on that bill so that 06:25.591 --> 06:27.758 we can give Ukraine the help that they 06:27.758 --> 06:29.980 so desperately need . Would love to get 06:29.980 --> 06:32.091 an update today uh from our witnesses 06:32.091 --> 06:34.313 about the fight in Ukraine . You know , 06:34.313 --> 06:36.480 my personal opinion is that Ukraine is 06:36.480 --> 06:38.480 in a strong position to stop Russia 06:38.480 --> 06:41.170 where they are if we give them the help . 06:41.190 --> 06:43.410 And this is where I have a tiny little 06:43.420 --> 06:45.642 bit of disagreement with the chairman's 06:45.642 --> 06:47.198 remarks . I think the Biden 06:47.198 --> 06:49.309 administration has been very clear on 06:49.309 --> 06:51.364 their policy from day one , which is 06:51.364 --> 06:53.309 defend Ukraine . Make sure that we 06:53.309 --> 06:56.000 maintain a sovereign democratic Ukraine 06:56.049 --> 06:59.170 while not stumbling into World War II 06:59.179 --> 07:01.899 with Russia . And that second goal is 07:01.910 --> 07:04.549 not irrelevant . OK . Making sure that 07:04.559 --> 07:06.781 that didn't happen is an important part 07:06.781 --> 07:08.892 of the policy because that would make 07:08.892 --> 07:11.089 everything vastly worse . It is not 07:11.100 --> 07:13.380 simply a matter of we're going to war 07:13.390 --> 07:15.446 with Russia , no matter what , there 07:15.446 --> 07:17.750 are very complicated calculations to 07:17.760 --> 07:19.816 make sure that we don't stumble into 07:19.816 --> 07:21.570 that broader war , which would 07:21.579 --> 07:23.790 definitely jeopardize our interest and 07:23.799 --> 07:25.910 the world's interest which means that 07:25.910 --> 07:28.640 taking some care and how we do that was 07:28.649 --> 07:31.100 actually a very smart policy . But even 07:31.109 --> 07:33.869 with that , I , I if we go back to 07:33.880 --> 07:37.420 February of 2022 when the war started , 07:37.690 --> 07:40.410 the assumption was it was over , there 07:40.420 --> 07:42.531 was nothing Ukraine could do . Russia 07:42.531 --> 07:44.587 would take them out . In a matter of 07:44.587 --> 07:46.698 weeks . The coalition that was pulled 07:46.698 --> 07:48.420 together in large part by this 07:48.420 --> 07:50.609 president and by this administration 07:50.850 --> 07:54.230 that built a 50 nation strong coalition 07:54.239 --> 07:57.170 to support Ukraine is the reason part 07:57.179 --> 07:59.235 of the reason , the other part being 07:59.235 --> 08:01.068 Ukraine's incredible courage and 08:01.068 --> 08:02.901 ability to fight that , that was 08:02.901 --> 08:05.068 stopped . I think we need to recognize 08:05.068 --> 08:07.012 that we also need to recognize the 08:07.012 --> 08:06.510 other point and I'll get back to 08:06.519 --> 08:08.519 agreement with the chairman at this 08:08.519 --> 08:10.989 point that if we walk away from that 08:11.000 --> 08:13.570 mission , that will undermine our 08:13.579 --> 08:15.746 ability to build the alliances that we 08:15.746 --> 08:17.968 need to confront all elements of this , 08:17.968 --> 08:21.329 not just Putin , but China and Iran and 08:21.339 --> 08:23.920 North Korea and Hamas and Hezbollah and 08:23.929 --> 08:25.985 all the groups that threaten us . So 08:25.985 --> 08:28.151 you can't say , well , we need to walk 08:28.151 --> 08:30.373 away from Ukraine because China is more 08:30.373 --> 08:32.151 important . Um if China is more 08:32.151 --> 08:34.207 important , that just emphasizes the 08:34.207 --> 08:36.373 fact that we should not walk away from 08:36.373 --> 08:38.596 Ukraine as we go forward . Um The other 08:38.596 --> 08:40.651 piece that I'm interested in both of 08:40.651 --> 08:42.762 our witnesses , um thoughts is on the 08:42.762 --> 08:44.818 sanctions piece , you know , part of 08:44.818 --> 08:47.040 the reason that sanctions have not been 08:47.040 --> 08:49.207 as effective as we would have liked is 08:49.207 --> 08:51.262 because China in particular has been 08:51.262 --> 08:53.373 there as an economic backstop but not 08:53.373 --> 08:55.318 just China . Um other nations like 08:55.318 --> 08:57.262 India , South Africa , Brazil have 08:57.262 --> 08:59.429 continued to do business . There was a 08:59.429 --> 09:01.596 fundamental shift in us economic power 09:01.596 --> 09:03.485 globally and that there are other 09:03.485 --> 09:05.707 nations now that are stepping into that 09:05.707 --> 09:07.707 void . We don't have the ability to 09:07.707 --> 09:09.929 simply choke off another nation that we 09:09.929 --> 09:12.096 once had because of that alliance that 09:12.096 --> 09:14.318 is being built . And I think that means 09:14.318 --> 09:16.429 that we should start thinking about , 09:16.429 --> 09:18.596 well , how do we deal with that ? What 09:18.596 --> 09:20.762 is a new strategy to recognize that we 09:20.762 --> 09:22.985 are definitely in a competition now for 09:22.985 --> 09:25.207 economic primacy in the world ? And how 09:25.207 --> 09:27.373 do we best confront that competition ? 09:27.373 --> 09:29.318 I'm worried that we overly rely on 09:29.318 --> 09:31.596 sanctions . Certainly not in this case , 09:31.596 --> 09:33.707 not where Russia is concerned , but a 09:33.707 --> 09:35.929 number of other cases that push nations 09:35.929 --> 09:38.096 across the globe away from us and into 09:38.099 --> 09:41.270 the arms of China and Russia , which 09:41.280 --> 09:43.280 only further weakens our ability to 09:43.280 --> 09:45.391 hold Russia to account for this war . 09:45.391 --> 09:47.960 But let me close where I started . And 09:47.969 --> 09:49.969 that is the importance of Ukraine . 09:49.969 --> 09:51.913 Ukraine can in fact win , they can 09:51.913 --> 09:54.914 maintain a sovereign democratic Ukraine 09:54.924 --> 09:57.255 and stop Russia , but only if we help 09:57.265 --> 09:59.154 them and the implications of that 09:59.154 --> 10:01.265 certainly for NATO more broadly , are 10:01.265 --> 10:03.614 profound . So I urge the speaker again , 10:03.625 --> 10:05.736 give us that vote so that we can help 10:05.736 --> 10:08.215 Ukraine defend the interests that are 10:08.224 --> 10:10.655 important to us as well as to Ukraine 10:10.664 --> 10:12.664 and the rest of the world without a 10:12.664 --> 10:14.831 yield back . Thank you , Mr Chairman . 10:14.831 --> 10:16.942 Thank the ranking member . And now we 10:16.942 --> 10:16.729 introduce the witnesses . We have the 10:16.739 --> 10:18.628 honorable Celeste Wallander , the 10:18.628 --> 10:20.572 Assistant Secretary of Defense for 10:20.572 --> 10:22.795 International Security Affairs and also 10:22.795 --> 10:25.017 Gene General Christopher Cavalli is the 10:25.017 --> 10:27.280 commander of us European command . I 10:27.289 --> 10:29.469 welcome the witnesses , MS Wallander . 10:29.479 --> 10:33.140 We'll start with you . Thank you . 10:33.539 --> 10:35.650 Thank you , Chairman Rogers , ranking 10:35.650 --> 10:37.817 member Smith and distinguished members 10:37.817 --> 10:39.928 of the committee . Um This is a great 10:39.928 --> 10:41.983 opportunity to testify and I want to 10:41.983 --> 10:43.872 also thank you for the support of 10:43.872 --> 10:45.928 Congress and the committee to enable 10:45.928 --> 10:48.095 the Department of Defense's Operations 10:48.095 --> 10:50.261 and Posture in Europe . It is an honor 10:50.261 --> 10:52.483 to appear alongside General Cavoli with 10:52.483 --> 10:54.940 its unprovoked invasion . In 2022 10:54.950 --> 10:57.760 Russia revealed its determination to 10:57.770 --> 10:59.937 revert to an international system that 10:59.937 --> 11:02.599 rewards aggression in response to 11:02.609 --> 11:04.909 Putin's challenge and to ensure 11:04.919 --> 11:07.141 continued deterrence and defense of our 11:07.141 --> 11:09.299 collective security . The department 11:09.309 --> 11:11.669 has enhanced its posture in Europe over 11:11.679 --> 11:13.989 the last two years , but we are not 11:14.000 --> 11:16.599 alone . I can report that our allies in 11:16.609 --> 11:18.760 Europe are sharing the responsibility 11:18.770 --> 11:21.039 for collective defense together with 11:21.049 --> 11:22.771 our allies . The department is 11:22.771 --> 11:24.771 committed to reinforcing the lesson 11:24.771 --> 11:27.280 that aggression will result in very 11:27.289 --> 11:30.250 costly failure . American security and 11:30.260 --> 11:33.039 pros and prosperity rely on that fact , 11:33.659 --> 11:35.770 in Ukraine , our strategic goal is to 11:35.770 --> 11:37.630 see a sovereign independent , 11:37.640 --> 11:39.750 economically viable and democratic 11:39.760 --> 11:42.880 Ukraine emerge from Russia's failure . 11:42.890 --> 11:45.359 A Ukraine with the means to deter and 11:45.369 --> 11:47.119 defend itself against further 11:47.130 --> 11:49.900 aggression . Russian forces continue 11:49.909 --> 11:52.010 their assault in Ukraine's East and 11:52.020 --> 11:54.830 South and target civilians and critical 11:54.840 --> 11:56.690 infrastructure across Ukraine . 11:57.099 --> 11:59.409 Ukraine's defenses and its population 11:59.419 --> 12:02.090 will face devastation without 12:02.099 --> 12:04.809 additional us security assistance to 12:04.820 --> 12:07.109 join with Europe's with congressional 12:07.119 --> 12:09.809 support . We will strengthen Ukraine in 12:09.820 --> 12:11.890 forging a strong defense industrial 12:11.900 --> 12:14.130 base that provides Ukraine with its 12:14.140 --> 12:16.729 required capabilities and resilience . 12:17.090 --> 12:18.979 Meanwhile , we have organized our 12:18.979 --> 12:21.289 allies and partners into coalitions 12:21.299 --> 12:24.159 focused on key capability areas for 12:24.169 --> 12:26.650 Ukraine's Air force , ground based air 12:26.659 --> 12:29.950 defense artillery , maritime security , 12:29.960 --> 12:32.599 armor , information , security , 12:32.940 --> 12:35.659 information technology , demining and 12:35.669 --> 12:38.130 drones through us . Leadership of the 12:38.140 --> 12:40.599 Ukraine defense contact group , we have 12:40.609 --> 12:44.280 provided more than $88 billion in 12:44.289 --> 12:47.460 security assistance to Ukraine . Us . 12:47.469 --> 12:49.630 Leadership is ensuring that Russia is 12:49.640 --> 12:52.020 bearing enormous costs as a result of 12:52.030 --> 12:54.260 its war against Ukraine , Russia has 12:54.270 --> 12:58.179 expended $211 billion to equip 12:58.190 --> 13:00.409 deploy , maintain and sustain 13:00.419 --> 13:03.200 operations in Ukraine resources that 13:03.210 --> 13:05.929 Russia's limited economy ill affords 13:06.340 --> 13:08.507 Russia's armed forces have suffered at 13:08.507 --> 13:10.900 least 315,000 , 13:11.369 --> 13:15.369 315 100,000 casualties in the 13:15.380 --> 13:17.799 fight . Yet , because of Putin's 13:17.809 --> 13:20.150 obsessions , Putin's Russia will be a 13:20.159 --> 13:22.919 threat to European and us security for 13:22.929 --> 13:26.229 years . Dod is focused on our defense 13:26.239 --> 13:28.580 and on deterring Russia from attacks on 13:28.590 --> 13:31.640 the United States and our NATO allies . 13:32.250 --> 13:34.640 NATO is stronger today than ever . 13:34.650 --> 13:37.150 Finland and Sweden are allies and more 13:37.159 --> 13:39.390 allies than ever are devoting at 13:39.400 --> 13:42.750 minimum 2% of GDP to defense . Today , 13:42.760 --> 13:45.989 18 allies meet the 2% requirement 13:46.039 --> 13:49.250 compared to only nine in 2020 13:49.559 --> 13:52.219 several more will meet 2% by the July 13:52.229 --> 13:55.739 Washington summit . In 2024 13:55.750 --> 13:58.440 NATO allies will invest a total of 13:58.450 --> 14:02.080 $470 billion in defense , which 14:02.090 --> 14:06.000 amounts to 2% of the aggregate GDP 14:06.010 --> 14:08.429 of all of the members of the alliance 14:08.440 --> 14:11.700 NATO allies together are answering the 14:11.710 --> 14:15.000 call to meet this historic threat . The 14:15.010 --> 14:17.121 department will continue working with 14:17.121 --> 14:19.288 allies to defend our countries and our 14:19.288 --> 14:21.510 freedoms throughout Europe including on 14:21.510 --> 14:23.732 its eastern flank . Those facing Russia 14:23.732 --> 14:25.788 where American soldiers serve on the 14:25.788 --> 14:27.989 front line from Estonia , Latvia , 14:28.000 --> 14:31.169 Lithuania , Poland Slovakia , Hungary , 14:31.179 --> 14:34.169 Romania and Bulgaria . America will 14:34.179 --> 14:36.346 welcome our allies this summer for the 14:36.346 --> 14:38.760 Washington NATO summit to celebrate the 14:38.770 --> 14:41.520 75th anniversary of the signing of the 14:41.530 --> 14:43.697 Washington treaty that established the 14:43.697 --> 14:46.510 NATO alliance founded on freedom and 14:46.520 --> 14:48.929 democracy . There are also states 14:48.940 --> 14:50.940 beyond NATO'S article five umbrella 14:50.940 --> 14:53.330 threatened by Russia Moldova recognizes 14:53.340 --> 14:55.229 the threat posed by Russia and is 14:55.229 --> 14:57.562 undertaking significant defense reforms . 14:57.562 --> 15:00.880 Moscow continues its occupation of 20% 15:00.909 --> 15:03.179 of Georgia's territory and maintains an 15:03.190 --> 15:05.880 unwelcome military presence in both 15:05.890 --> 15:09.140 Armenia and Azerbaijan dod works with 15:09.150 --> 15:11.419 all four to strengthen ties , build 15:11.429 --> 15:13.809 resilience and advance Euro Atlantic 15:13.820 --> 15:16.159 integration . I want to emphasize how 15:16.169 --> 15:18.336 important Congress is to achieving our 15:18.336 --> 15:20.280 strategic objectives in Europe and 15:20.280 --> 15:23.119 beyond your reliable , stable and 15:23.130 --> 15:25.090 consistent support and funding are 15:25.099 --> 15:26.710 critical . Thank you for the 15:26.710 --> 15:28.599 opportunity to testify and I look 15:28.599 --> 15:31.260 forward to your questions . Thank you , 15:31.270 --> 15:33.492 Doctor Wallander , uh General Cavalli , 15:33.492 --> 15:35.603 you recognized ? Thank you , Chairman 15:35.603 --> 15:37.714 uh Chairman Rogers , ranking member , 15:37.714 --> 15:39.770 Smith , distinguished members of the 15:39.770 --> 15:41.826 committee . It's an honor to testify 15:41.826 --> 15:44.159 before you today . On behalf of the men , 15:44.159 --> 15:46.159 women and families of us , European 15:46.159 --> 15:47.881 command , I'd like to publicly 15:47.881 --> 15:49.937 recognize our service members shared 15:49.937 --> 15:52.103 sacrifice and I'd like to praise their 15:52.103 --> 15:54.214 devotion to the mission and thank you 15:54.214 --> 15:56.437 for your support of them . I'm lucky to 15:56.437 --> 15:58.381 be accompanied by command Sergeant 15:58.381 --> 16:00.326 Major Rob Abernathy here today who 16:00.326 --> 16:02.159 represents those men , women and 16:02.159 --> 16:04.159 families and I'm honored to testify 16:04.159 --> 16:06.159 next to Doctor Wallander . Um We're 16:06.159 --> 16:08.159 facing challenging times to say the 16:08.159 --> 16:09.937 least in the European theater . 16:09.937 --> 16:12.090 Russia's brutal , unprovoked war has 16:12.099 --> 16:15.140 ravaged Ukraine for over two years . 16:15.280 --> 16:17.710 Their forces are demolishing cities and 16:17.719 --> 16:19.663 are destroying innocent lives on a 16:19.663 --> 16:21.886 scale we have not seen since the Second 16:21.886 --> 16:23.719 World War . Moreover , Russia is 16:23.719 --> 16:25.719 turning to the People's Republic of 16:25.719 --> 16:27.941 China , Iran and North Korea to sustain 16:27.941 --> 16:29.719 its campaign in Ukraine . These 16:29.719 --> 16:31.663 countries are forming interlocking 16:31.663 --> 16:33.886 strategic partnerships in an attempt to 16:33.886 --> 16:36.052 challenge the existing order . This is 16:36.052 --> 16:38.059 profoundly inimical to us national 16:38.070 --> 16:40.530 interests and Russia sign shows no 16:40.539 --> 16:42.700 signs of stopping nor does Russia 16:42.710 --> 16:45.299 intend to stop with . Ukraine . Russia 16:45.320 --> 16:48.659 presents a chronic threat . Us U COM 16:48.669 --> 16:50.891 has responded to this Russian threat by 16:50.891 --> 16:53.113 enhancing our deterrence posture across 16:53.113 --> 16:55.002 Europe . We have strengthened our 16:55.002 --> 16:57.002 eastern flank with rotational force 16:57.002 --> 16:58.725 deployments . We have expanded 16:58.725 --> 17:00.447 prepositioned stocks and we've 17:00.447 --> 17:02.669 modernized our infrastructure to enable 17:02.669 --> 17:04.989 rapid reception of reinforcing forces . 17:05.000 --> 17:07.222 We have demonstrated this capability to 17:07.222 --> 17:09.709 reinforce in all domains through dozens 17:09.719 --> 17:12.630 of multinational training exercises so 17:12.640 --> 17:14.839 we are ready to defend and this allows 17:14.849 --> 17:17.750 us to deter and we have deterred Russia 17:17.760 --> 17:21.199 from attacking our alliance US . U is 17:21.209 --> 17:22.765 also very proud to lead the 17:22.765 --> 17:24.709 international effort in support of 17:24.709 --> 17:26.542 Ukraine . We do this through the 17:26.542 --> 17:28.765 security assistance group , Ukraine Sau 17:28.765 --> 17:30.987 which is led by Lieutenant General Tony 17:30.987 --> 17:33.709 Agudo in the past 26 months of this war , 17:33.719 --> 17:35.886 the US and our partners have delivered 17:35.886 --> 17:38.052 vast amounts of critical munitions and 17:38.052 --> 17:40.275 equipment to our Ukrainian colleagues . 17:40.275 --> 17:42.680 The Sau has facilitated a full range of 17:42.689 --> 17:44.979 training to promote unit readiness . We 17:44.989 --> 17:47.156 have ensured that Ukraine knows how to 17:47.156 --> 17:49.267 use their new equipment and knows how 17:49.267 --> 17:52.520 to maintain it . Nevertheless , Russia 17:52.530 --> 17:55.670 persists in its vicious campaign and 17:55.680 --> 17:57.624 meanwhile , Ukraine remains almost 17:57.624 --> 17:59.890 entirely dependent on external support 17:59.920 --> 18:02.770 to stay in this fight . The severity of 18:02.780 --> 18:06.130 this moment cannot be overstated if we 18:06.140 --> 18:08.609 do not continue to support Ukraine . 18:08.660 --> 18:12.030 Ukraine could lose . So our efforts are 18:12.040 --> 18:14.520 great . But in all of this US U COM is 18:14.530 --> 18:17.140 not alone . War in Europe has given our 18:17.150 --> 18:19.261 allies and partners clear purpose and 18:19.261 --> 18:20.872 unity and they've seized the 18:20.872 --> 18:22.539 opportunity presented by this 18:22.539 --> 18:24.483 catastrophe . Over the past year , 18:24.483 --> 18:26.483 there have been profound changes in 18:26.483 --> 18:28.609 NATO . We have new war plans for the 18:28.619 --> 18:31.260 first time in 35 years , we have a new 18:31.270 --> 18:33.492 force model and a new readiness model . 18:33.492 --> 18:37.459 It makes more than 700% more European 18:37.469 --> 18:39.880 troops available to the Supreme Allied 18:39.890 --> 18:41.946 Commander . Me then just a couple of 18:41.946 --> 18:44.119 years ago , we have a streamlined and 18:44.130 --> 18:46.352 focused command structure . We have new 18:46.352 --> 18:48.574 authorities that give me the ability to 18:48.574 --> 18:50.741 respond to crisis in a timely manner . 18:50.741 --> 18:52.797 And European governments are backing 18:52.797 --> 18:54.797 these organizational changes with a 18:54.797 --> 18:57.800 concrete uptick in investment in 2024 . 18:58.010 --> 19:00.869 At least 20 nations are expected to 19:00.880 --> 19:03.439 meet the 2% of GDP defense spending 19:03.449 --> 19:06.209 mark . This compares to only three that 19:06.219 --> 19:10.099 did so . In 2014 , continued us 19:10.109 --> 19:12.331 leadership is essential . However , our 19:12.331 --> 19:14.920 allies are stepping up but they require 19:14.930 --> 19:17.829 and they hope for our continued 19:17.839 --> 19:20.089 leadership . An example by upholding 19:20.099 --> 19:22.469 our commitment to Ukraine and by 19:22.479 --> 19:24.590 demonstrating steadfast cohesion with 19:24.590 --> 19:26.757 the NATO alliance , we provide a clear 19:26.757 --> 19:29.489 deterrent to our adversaries . Should 19:29.500 --> 19:31.333 that deterrence fail us ? U come 19:31.333 --> 19:33.500 alongside our allies is ready to fight 19:33.500 --> 19:35.709 and win . I thank Congress for your 19:35.719 --> 19:37.830 unwavering support to your servicemen 19:37.839 --> 19:40.020 and women , to our mission , to their 19:40.030 --> 19:41.863 safety and to their well-being . 19:41.863 --> 19:44.030 Chairman Rogers , ranking member Smith 19:44.030 --> 19:45.863 on behalf of the entire European 19:45.863 --> 19:47.808 command . Thank you again for this 19:47.808 --> 19:47.670 opportunity today . I very much look 19:47.680 --> 19:50.949 forward to your questions . I think uh 19:50.959 --> 19:52.681 the witness , I recognize my , 19:52.681 --> 19:54.848 recognize myself for questions General 19:54.848 --> 19:56.903 Koi , what would be the consequences 19:56.903 --> 19:58.903 for Ukraine , the United States and 19:58.903 --> 20:00.792 NATO if Congress fails to uh in a 20:00.792 --> 20:02.903 timely manner , pass the supplemental 20:02.903 --> 20:05.449 funding Bill , uh Chairman Rogers , um 20:05.640 --> 20:07.719 you know , II I can't predict the 20:07.729 --> 20:10.170 future but I can , I can do simple math . 20:10.439 --> 20:13.050 And when I look at the supply rates , I 20:13.060 --> 20:15.420 look at the supply sources . When I 20:15.430 --> 20:18.119 look at the consumption rates , um if 20:18.130 --> 20:21.489 we do not continue to support Ukraine , 20:21.619 --> 20:23.599 Ukraine will run out of artillery 20:23.609 --> 20:27.000 shells and will run out of air defense 20:27.010 --> 20:30.420 interceptors . Um in fairly short 20:30.430 --> 20:34.109 order . Uh Mr Chairman , um based on my 20:34.119 --> 20:36.760 experience in 37 plus years in the US 20:36.770 --> 20:39.420 military , if one side can shoot and 20:39.430 --> 20:41.849 the other side can't shoot back the 20:41.859 --> 20:44.109 side that can't shoot back , loses . So 20:44.119 --> 20:47.219 the stakes are very high . Uh We are 20:47.229 --> 20:50.270 the main supplier of ground based air 20:50.280 --> 20:52.989 defense and artillery shells for 20:53.000 --> 20:55.160 Ukraine right now . It's important to 20:55.170 --> 20:57.650 note that our allies are increasing 20:57.660 --> 20:59.771 their production rates . They're just 20:59.771 --> 21:01.771 not able to take it all under their 21:01.771 --> 21:03.938 control yet . They just don't have the 21:03.938 --> 21:06.160 supplies , they're increasing rapidly . 21:06.160 --> 21:08.216 Both NATO and the European Union are 21:08.216 --> 21:10.549 working to increase European production . 21:10.549 --> 21:12.771 That will be the first part of a bridge 21:12.771 --> 21:14.827 to the future . And then meanwhile , 21:14.827 --> 21:16.716 we're all working with Ukraine to 21:16.716 --> 21:19.049 increase their organic production rates . 21:19.049 --> 21:21.216 They're already producing about 11,000 21:21.216 --> 21:23.382 artillery shells a year and some other 21:23.382 --> 21:25.438 things . So we're bringing that up . 21:25.438 --> 21:25.300 But in the meantime , they're really 21:25.310 --> 21:27.939 dependent this year on us , Mr Chairman 21:27.949 --> 21:30.229 and without our support , um they , 21:30.239 --> 21:33.719 they will not be able to prevail Doctor 21:33.729 --> 21:35.618 Wallander some of our members are 21:35.618 --> 21:37.396 frustrated . They feel like the 21:37.396 --> 21:39.396 administration doesn't have a clear 21:39.396 --> 21:41.729 plan or objective uh in Ukraine . Can 21:41.739 --> 21:45.400 you articulate that uh for us ? Uh 21:45.410 --> 21:47.920 Thank you , Mr Chairman . Uh The , the 21:47.930 --> 21:50.760 objective is Russia's strategic failure . 21:51.099 --> 21:54.979 Um Putin's goal is to subjugate Ukraine 21:55.369 --> 21:57.313 to strip it of its sovereignty and 21:57.313 --> 22:00.719 independence , but also to weaken and , 22:00.729 --> 22:03.760 and subvert Europe America and 22:03.770 --> 22:05.659 especially , of course , the NATO 22:05.659 --> 22:09.030 Alliance . So our objectives and what 22:09.040 --> 22:11.096 has guided our policies for the last 22:11.096 --> 22:14.439 two years is that uh Ukraine 22:14.449 --> 22:17.400 remain a sovereign independent European 22:17.410 --> 22:19.810 country that is able to defend and 22:19.819 --> 22:22.689 deter and to deliver that failure to 22:22.699 --> 22:25.390 Putin . And Ukraine is doing that with 22:25.400 --> 22:28.670 our support every day and it is to 22:28.680 --> 22:31.420 strengthen the NATO alliance to defend 22:31.430 --> 22:34.709 America's European security , which is 22:34.719 --> 22:37.280 the core of our global security . Our 22:37.290 --> 22:39.790 alliance in Europe enables American 22:39.800 --> 22:42.839 military presence more broadly globally 22:42.849 --> 22:46.030 as well as to defend and deter against 22:46.040 --> 22:49.420 Russia . And China is watching how we 22:49.430 --> 22:51.780 perform in Europe because they are 22:51.790 --> 22:54.609 drawing lessons for how we will live up 22:54.619 --> 22:56.589 to our commitments to allies and 22:56.599 --> 23:00.150 partners in the Indo Pacific . So we 23:00.160 --> 23:02.969 need to ensure that Putin also fail in 23:02.979 --> 23:06.189 his goal to undermine European security . 23:06.630 --> 23:08.819 We are doing this out of self interest 23:08.829 --> 23:10.718 out of American national security 23:10.718 --> 23:13.739 interests as well as of course , the 23:13.750 --> 23:16.119 admiration that we Americans feel for 23:16.130 --> 23:18.352 Ukraine . But in the end , we are doing 23:18.352 --> 23:20.719 this so that Americans can be secure at 23:20.729 --> 23:24.640 home . And abroad . Ok . Uh General 23:24.650 --> 23:27.089 Cavoli , if , if funding is not uh 23:27.099 --> 23:30.369 provided by the US and NATO for Ukraine 23:30.380 --> 23:32.589 and the government falls , do you 23:32.599 --> 23:34.959 believe that Russia will take the 23:34.969 --> 23:36.959 entirety of the country or just a 23:36.969 --> 23:38.930 portion thereof ? Mr Chairman , I 23:38.939 --> 23:41.050 believe that Russia will take as much 23:41.050 --> 23:43.161 of that country as they can get . And 23:43.161 --> 23:45.272 if the Ukrainian armed forces are not 23:45.272 --> 23:47.439 able to hold , they'll take as much as 23:47.439 --> 23:49.495 they can . This could , in the worst 23:49.495 --> 23:51.717 case put uh Russian soldiers throughout 23:51.717 --> 23:53.883 Ukraine , which would put them on many 23:53.883 --> 23:56.106 more NATO country borders than they are 23:56.106 --> 23:58.161 currently . And uh that would , uh , 23:58.161 --> 24:00.328 that would cost an awful lot for us to 24:00.329 --> 24:03.760 deal with . And do , uh do y'all have 24:03.770 --> 24:05.937 uh an expectation of what would happen 24:05.937 --> 24:08.859 next after assuming that , that Ukraine 24:08.869 --> 24:11.036 falls and Russia takes the entirety of 24:11.036 --> 24:13.199 the nation at some point . Do you 24:13.209 --> 24:15.376 believe there'll be further aggression 24:15.376 --> 24:17.709 or not ? And if so , what would that be ? 24:17.709 --> 24:19.931 I believe Russia would be emboldened Mr 24:19.931 --> 24:21.987 Chairman and I believe at some point 24:21.987 --> 24:24.153 they would commit further aggression . 24:24.153 --> 24:26.410 Um And if I , if I may , I'd like to 24:26.420 --> 24:28.531 ask Celeste if she has that as well . 24:29.540 --> 24:31.707 II , I fully agree with General Cavoli 24:31.707 --> 24:34.280 Putin is not going to stop at Ukraine . 24:34.369 --> 24:37.170 Ukraine is a step towards undermining 24:37.180 --> 24:39.640 European security and the transatlantic 24:39.650 --> 24:41.428 alliance and therefore American 24:41.428 --> 24:43.594 security . Thank the witnesses . Chair 24:43.594 --> 24:45.706 recognizes the ranking member for any 24:45.706 --> 24:47.872 questions he may have . Thank you , Mr 24:47.872 --> 24:49.983 chairman , uh General Kavali , taking 24:49.983 --> 24:52.150 the flip side of that question . If we 24:52.150 --> 24:54.039 get assistance to Ukraine , as is 24:54.039 --> 24:56.261 currently outlined , what do you assess 24:56.261 --> 24:59.020 their chances of stopping Russia where 24:59.030 --> 25:02.790 they're at ? At least right now ? Uh 25:02.920 --> 25:04.976 Sir , I think those chances would be 25:04.976 --> 25:07.142 very good . I , I think , I think they 25:07.142 --> 25:09.253 would be able to do it . Um , we work 25:09.253 --> 25:11.469 very closely with them on , um , on , 25:11.479 --> 25:15.270 on their general plans and , um , and 25:15.280 --> 25:18.030 the way to accomplish them and um they 25:18.040 --> 25:20.096 have solid plans , they have a solid 25:20.096 --> 25:22.885 approach um to their defense . Um It 25:22.895 --> 25:24.895 does need to be resourced however , 25:24.895 --> 25:27.173 right ? Because I mean , at the moment , 25:27.173 --> 25:29.395 Russia is trying to press the advantage 25:29.395 --> 25:31.562 they have because Ukraine is rationing 25:31.562 --> 25:33.784 what they use because of the , the lack 25:33.784 --> 25:36.474 of support . Um But even then , you 25:36.484 --> 25:38.834 know , Russia seems to be struggling to 25:38.844 --> 25:40.900 break through . Can you give us your 25:40.900 --> 25:43.011 assessment as to why that is what are 25:43.011 --> 25:44.955 the weaknesses or strengths of the 25:44.955 --> 25:47.122 Russian force and why they're still in 25:47.122 --> 25:48.844 the situation ? They're in a a 25:48.844 --> 25:51.699 absolutely . Um The first and primary 25:51.709 --> 25:54.239 reason the Russians are unable to break 25:54.250 --> 25:57.569 through uh is due to the tenacity 25:57.869 --> 26:01.020 of the Ukrainian defenders . Uh They 26:01.030 --> 26:03.141 are defending very , very hard , they 26:03.141 --> 26:05.419 fight very hard , they fight every day . 26:05.419 --> 26:07.760 Um On the Russian side , the Russians 26:07.770 --> 26:10.890 are uh struggling to put together 26:10.900 --> 26:14.319 combined arms operations or operations 26:14.329 --> 26:16.162 at the battalion level above the 26:16.162 --> 26:18.051 company level . It's very hard to 26:18.051 --> 26:20.265 aggregate very small unit actions , a 26:20.275 --> 26:22.714 larger offensive . They are trying , 26:22.925 --> 26:25.147 they're spending enormous quantities of 26:25.147 --> 26:28.255 material and enormous amounts of life 26:28.265 --> 26:30.432 to try to break through just by piling 26:30.432 --> 26:32.834 small attack after small attack . Um , 26:32.844 --> 26:35.905 it has not worked so far but in the end , 26:35.915 --> 26:38.193 numbers matter and warfare , of course , 26:38.193 --> 26:40.082 as , you know , uh , uh , ranking 26:40.082 --> 26:42.193 member , Smith and those , um , those 26:42.193 --> 26:45.439 numbers , if we don't support Ukraine , 26:45.449 --> 26:47.505 we'll favor the Russians over time . 26:47.520 --> 26:49.687 Thank you . And , and Dr Wall under on 26:49.687 --> 26:51.853 a more difficult policy question . The 26:51.853 --> 26:53.631 other aspect of the , the Biden 26:53.631 --> 26:55.853 administration's policy here is to make 26:55.853 --> 26:57.631 sure that there was a sovereign 26:57.631 --> 26:59.709 democratic Ukraine . Uh Yes , Russia 26:59.719 --> 27:01.719 focused that you emphasize and your 27:01.719 --> 27:03.775 answer to the chairman's question is 27:03.775 --> 27:05.997 there . But we wanted to make sure that 27:05.997 --> 27:05.859 Ukraine was there if we were able to 27:05.869 --> 27:07.869 get them support and we stop Russia 27:07.869 --> 27:10.036 where they're at . That of course , is 27:10.036 --> 27:12.258 not the ultimate objective of Ukraine . 27:12.369 --> 27:14.536 Ukraine would like to take back all of 27:14.536 --> 27:16.702 the territory back to the , you know , 27:16.702 --> 27:19.680 pre 2014 borders at the moment . That 27:19.689 --> 27:22.930 seems unrealistic . What would you say 27:22.939 --> 27:24.880 is the scenario and , and the 27:24.890 --> 27:27.050 administration's position on 27:27.060 --> 27:29.282 negotiations . So we get them the aid , 27:29.282 --> 27:31.338 we stop Russia so that Russia cannot 27:31.338 --> 27:34.160 achieve their maximalist goals . I see 27:34.275 --> 27:36.497 risk . If at that point , we continue . 27:36.497 --> 27:38.664 No , we gotta keep fighting because we 27:38.664 --> 27:40.664 got to get it all back . How do you 27:40.664 --> 27:42.664 have that very difficult discussion 27:42.664 --> 27:44.831 with Ukraine ? And also crucially with 27:44.831 --> 27:46.942 other eastern European allies who are 27:46.942 --> 27:49.053 quite right . I mean , Ukraine should 27:49.053 --> 27:51.331 have , you know , pre 2014 borders but , 27:51.331 --> 27:53.553 but should , and what , you know , what 27:53.553 --> 27:53.375 should happen isn't the same as what 27:53.385 --> 27:55.385 can happen . How do you handle that 27:55.385 --> 27:58.675 discussion to get to , to a peace in 27:58.685 --> 28:01.619 Ukraine ? Thank you . Uh uh 28:01.979 --> 28:05.829 Congressman Smith first and most 28:05.839 --> 28:09.430 important is we , our policy is 28:09.439 --> 28:11.979 to fight to preserve , to support 28:11.989 --> 28:14.211 Ukraine so that it is sovereign and can 28:14.211 --> 28:16.267 make its own choices . So we have to 28:16.267 --> 28:18.433 understand that in the end , it is the 28:18.433 --> 28:20.100 Ukrainian people uh and their 28:20.100 --> 28:21.933 leadership who will decide how , 28:21.933 --> 28:24.209 whether and on what terms they might be 28:24.219 --> 28:26.386 willing to negotiate with Russia . And 28:26.386 --> 28:28.441 it's very important to remember that 28:28.441 --> 28:31.260 and we are supporting them uh in a 28:31.270 --> 28:33.780 prime in security assistance , but also 28:33.790 --> 28:35.957 economic assistance and in other parts 28:35.957 --> 28:38.209 of the US government uh so that Ukraine 28:38.219 --> 28:40.386 can be that sovereign country and have 28:40.386 --> 28:42.663 that decision and live to see that day . 28:44.170 --> 28:46.170 I do think there is a misconception 28:46.170 --> 28:48.448 that what Putin is after his territory . 28:48.489 --> 28:50.489 He's not after territory , he's not 28:50.489 --> 28:54.270 after Baku or Avdiivka or uh 28:54.280 --> 28:57.969 even Odessa , he's after Ukraine . And 28:57.979 --> 29:00.459 so we have to understand that while 29:00.469 --> 29:02.247 there may be a negotiation over 29:02.247 --> 29:03.969 territory at some point , some 29:03.969 --> 29:07.380 territorial uh uh resolution , we have 29:07.390 --> 29:09.334 to be ready for the fact that that 29:09.334 --> 29:11.501 probably doesn't mean that Putin gives 29:11.501 --> 29:13.612 up on the goal to subvert Ukraine and 29:13.612 --> 29:15.790 through Ukraine Europe . So we have to 29:15.800 --> 29:17.800 do both things . We have to support 29:17.800 --> 29:20.060 Ukraine and if in negotiations , if it 29:20.069 --> 29:23.020 chooses to negotiation , negotiate , 29:23.089 --> 29:25.311 but we must not be fooled into thinking 29:25.311 --> 29:27.800 that brings uh an era of peace and 29:27.810 --> 29:30.140 cooper back . Any negotiation would 29:30.150 --> 29:32.150 have to make , make sure that there 29:32.150 --> 29:35.560 were clear security protections for 29:35.569 --> 29:37.625 Ukraine going forward . We could not 29:37.625 --> 29:40.819 simply rely on , on Putin's word that 29:40.829 --> 29:42.996 he would not go further . I completely 29:42.996 --> 29:44.996 agree with that . I yield back , Mr 29:44.996 --> 29:47.040 Chairman J and I recognize this 29:47.050 --> 29:49.050 gentleman from Georgia , Mr Scott . 29:49.709 --> 29:51.709 Thank you , Mr Chairman , uh Doctor 29:51.709 --> 29:53.876 Wilder . I have a tremendous amount of 29:53.876 --> 29:55.931 respect for you . I , I I would tell 29:55.931 --> 29:57.653 you , I disagree on the Odessa 29:57.653 --> 29:59.598 statement . I do think Putin wants 29:59.598 --> 30:01.709 Odessa . I think it gives him control 30:01.709 --> 30:04.969 over the economy of uh Ukraine and um 30:05.380 --> 30:07.602 that port is extremely important to him 30:07.602 --> 30:11.030 and I think that he would uh like to 30:11.040 --> 30:13.262 charge a tax on everything leaving that 30:13.262 --> 30:14.984 port and give it to one of his 30:14.984 --> 30:17.096 oligarchs or keep a portion of it for 30:17.096 --> 30:20.660 himself . But uh my question gets to 30:20.670 --> 30:22.892 your statement about Russia's strategic 30:22.900 --> 30:24.650 failure being the Biden 30:24.660 --> 30:26.989 administration's goal . Uh Certainly 30:27.000 --> 30:29.278 that's my goal . I want Russia to fail . 30:29.278 --> 30:31.389 I want Putin to fail . I want Ukraine 30:31.389 --> 30:33.750 to win . Um And you also talk about 30:33.760 --> 30:36.869 Russia's limited economy , but most 30:36.880 --> 30:39.102 numbers show that Russia's economy grew 30:39.102 --> 30:41.599 at a rate of 3.6% for 2023 . Is that 30:41.609 --> 30:44.199 your understanding . Yes . And its 30:44.209 --> 30:47.050 inflation rate is 13% . Ok . 30:47.650 --> 30:50.800 So it's 13% rate is 30:50.819 --> 30:54.819 13% . Um but their economy 30:54.829 --> 30:57.780 is growing and uh the Biden 30:57.790 --> 31:01.439 administration has looked the other way 31:01.449 --> 31:04.489 while India , whose economy uh is also 31:04.500 --> 31:06.500 growing at a pace , that's actually 31:06.500 --> 31:09.459 about 7% has bought billions of dollars 31:09.469 --> 31:12.469 worth of oil from Russia in violation 31:12.479 --> 31:14.900 of the sanctions . Uh Is it correct ? I 31:14.910 --> 31:16.966 want to ask you about the opinion on 31:16.966 --> 31:19.077 the Biden administration . I will ask 31:19.077 --> 31:21.188 you though . Is it correct that India 31:21.188 --> 31:20.760 has purchased billions of dollars worth 31:20.770 --> 31:23.119 of oil in violation of the sanctions 31:23.130 --> 31:27.020 from Russia . India has purchased oil 31:27.030 --> 31:29.319 from Russia in violation of the 31:29.329 --> 31:31.989 sanctions . I , that would be a 31:32.000 --> 31:34.000 technical issue on whether they are 31:34.000 --> 31:36.167 paying more than the price cap and I'm 31:36.167 --> 31:38.222 afraid I'd have to get back to you . 31:38.222 --> 31:40.222 Fair enough . I , I , as I said , I 31:40.222 --> 31:42.389 respect you . I'm not trying to play , 31:42.389 --> 31:44.500 got you here . But my concern is that 31:44.500 --> 31:43.739 there are things the Biden 31:43.750 --> 31:46.880 administration could do that would hurt 31:46.890 --> 31:50.000 Russia's economy and then , uh and they 31:50.010 --> 31:52.140 have not done it . Uh I'm also 31:52.150 --> 31:54.400 concerned with the fact that Russia , 31:54.810 --> 31:57.349 uh when the Ukrainians hit Russia's oil 31:57.359 --> 32:00.089 and gas infrastructure , uh , the Biden 32:00.099 --> 32:02.210 administration came out and condemned 32:02.210 --> 32:04.432 the Ukrainians for hitting Russia's oil 32:04.432 --> 32:06.266 and gas infrastructure and , and 32:06.266 --> 32:08.432 suggested that they should not do that 32:08.432 --> 32:10.321 again . Can you tell me why while 32:10.321 --> 32:12.377 Russia is attacking Ukrainians , oil 32:12.377 --> 32:14.155 and gas and energy sector . Why 32:14.155 --> 32:16.155 shouldn't the Ukrainians attack the 32:16.155 --> 32:18.377 Russian oil and gas and energy sector . 32:18.949 --> 32:21.819 The issue on attacking critical 32:21.829 --> 32:24.650 infrastructure is when those are 32:24.660 --> 32:26.760 civilian targets , we have concerns 32:26.770 --> 32:28.770 because Ukraine holds itself to the 32:28.770 --> 32:30.992 highest standards of observing the laws 32:30.992 --> 32:33.103 of armed conflict . And that's one of 32:33.103 --> 32:34.937 the elements of being a European 32:34.937 --> 32:36.770 democracy . But the Russians are 32:36.770 --> 32:38.214 attacking the oil and gas 32:38.214 --> 32:40.326 infrastructure in Ukraine . Correct . 32:40.326 --> 32:42.719 Absolutely . And if you're going to win 32:42.729 --> 32:45.329 a war , you can't sit back and take 32:45.339 --> 32:47.395 punches and not deliver punches . So 32:47.395 --> 32:49.617 why shouldn't the Ukrainians attack the 32:49.617 --> 32:51.672 oil and gas infrastructure in Russia 32:52.180 --> 32:54.239 congressman . We have concerns about 32:54.250 --> 32:57.520 striking at civilian targets when we 32:57.530 --> 32:59.697 support uh countries . Again . This is 32:59.697 --> 33:01.808 Ukraine's sovereign decision , but we 33:01.808 --> 33:03.974 express those concerns . But those oil 33:03.974 --> 33:06.086 and gas infrastructures in Russia are 33:06.086 --> 33:08.197 owned by the Kremlin . Correct . It's 33:08.197 --> 33:08.010 not like they're owned by a private 33:08.020 --> 33:10.390 corporation that have shareholders and 33:10.400 --> 33:12.456 private assets are being destroyed . 33:12.750 --> 33:15.709 They are owned by private Russian 33:15.719 --> 33:17.663 citizens who are part of the Putin 33:17.663 --> 33:19.830 regime . That is correct . I mean , it 33:19.830 --> 33:22.099 makes sense to me that we should 33:22.109 --> 33:25.969 destroy him . Uh General General Cavoli , 33:25.979 --> 33:28.739 uh you talked a lot about our NATO 33:28.750 --> 33:32.349 partners uh in their uh 33:32.359 --> 33:35.550 ascension to the 2% Russia is currently 33:35.560 --> 33:37.670 spending as I understand it , 6% of 33:37.680 --> 33:41.520 their GDP uh on , on their military . 33:41.719 --> 33:45.369 Uh My question is , is the , is the 2% 33:47.000 --> 33:49.589 enough if , if your enemy is spending 33:49.599 --> 33:52.060 6% if your greatest threat is coming 33:52.069 --> 33:54.180 from a country that is spending 6% of 33:54.180 --> 33:58.020 GDP . Uh Should that 2% threshold ? 33:58.530 --> 34:00.369 Should we work to raise that 2% 34:00.380 --> 34:02.491 threshold for the NATO Partnerships ? 34:03.500 --> 34:07.329 Thanks Congressman . Um So fir first of 34:07.339 --> 34:10.100 all , uh , there is a lively discussion 34:10.110 --> 34:12.110 among the nations in NATO right now 34:12.110 --> 34:14.739 about whether 2% is even , even any 34:14.750 --> 34:16.917 longer the relevant figure . Uh Should 34:16.917 --> 34:19.028 it be higher as , you know , a number 34:19.028 --> 34:20.528 of our allies are spending 34:20.528 --> 34:23.080 significantly above 2% ? I'd call 34:23.090 --> 34:25.201 attention to Poland here , especially 34:25.201 --> 34:27.409 which is closing in on 4% of GDP . I 34:27.419 --> 34:30.879 personally um believe uh in the absence 34:30.889 --> 34:33.800 of any uh any uh North Atlantic Council 34:33.810 --> 34:36.032 decision or , or agreement . I do think 34:36.032 --> 34:38.143 we're going to find that three , that 34:38.143 --> 34:41.090 2% is too low a figure . Um We have uh 34:41.100 --> 34:43.211 plans that have driven four structure 34:43.211 --> 34:45.433 requirements that nations are now going 34:45.433 --> 34:47.322 to be asked to build towards . So 34:47.322 --> 34:49.211 there's a , there's a blueprint , 34:49.211 --> 34:51.433 there's a shopping list for that 2% and 34:51.433 --> 34:51.409 I , I think we're going to find the 2% 34:51.419 --> 34:53.308 goes pretty quickly . Congressman 34:54.320 --> 34:56.489 Gentleman from Connecticut , Mr 34:56.500 --> 34:58.611 Courtney , thank you uh Mr Chairman . 34:58.611 --> 35:00.667 And uh again , just want to join the 35:00.667 --> 35:02.611 chairman and the ranking member in 35:02.611 --> 35:04.833 terms of the urgency of getting this uh 35:04.833 --> 35:06.778 uh supplemental assistance package 35:06.778 --> 35:06.760 voted on . Again , I think it's 35:06.770 --> 35:08.937 important to remember that the vote in 35:08.937 --> 35:12.080 the Senate was 70 to 28 which um you 35:12.090 --> 35:14.312 know , in this polarized environment uh 35:14.312 --> 35:16.989 that sends a very strong um confident 35:17.000 --> 35:19.222 message that uh the votes will be there 35:19.222 --> 35:21.111 in the house . Uh If we take this 35:21.111 --> 35:23.333 measure up and hopefully we could do it 35:23.333 --> 35:25.556 tonight . There is a discharge petition 35:25.556 --> 35:27.667 that's actually been filed to force a 35:27.667 --> 35:29.889 vote and it's just shy of 202 18 is the 35:29.889 --> 35:31.944 magic number . And again , something 35:31.944 --> 35:34.056 hopefully members will think about as 35:34.056 --> 35:36.278 the clock keeps ticking in terms of the 35:36.278 --> 35:39.040 urgency of this issue . Um General , 35:39.050 --> 35:41.379 your testimony uh pretty powerfully 35:41.389 --> 35:43.500 described the , the fact that in , in 35:43.540 --> 35:46.320 pages 2 to 5 about the , the fact that , 35:46.330 --> 35:49.209 you know , Russia , um despite the like 35:49.219 --> 35:50.886 horrific losses that they are 35:50.886 --> 35:53.110 experiencing , that is not slowing down 35:53.340 --> 35:55.810 uh investment in their uh military and 35:55.820 --> 35:59.760 their uh defense uh se uh sector . Uh 35:59.770 --> 36:01.492 And you and I just had a brief 36:01.492 --> 36:03.492 conversation to talk about , um you 36:03.492 --> 36:05.714 know , one of the areas where they have 36:05.714 --> 36:07.881 been continuing to uh invest is in the 36:07.881 --> 36:10.214 undersea domain , particularly um again , 36:10.214 --> 36:12.919 because of the their um presence and 36:12.929 --> 36:15.260 activities in the North Atlantic , um 36:15.270 --> 36:17.320 they've been steadily increasing um 36:17.330 --> 36:19.497 over the years with uh construction of 36:19.497 --> 36:21.608 more sophisticated submarines such as 36:21.608 --> 36:23.441 the severed events class and the 36:23.441 --> 36:25.608 upgraded kilo uh platforms . Again , I 36:25.608 --> 36:27.830 know a lot of this sort of topic has to 36:27.830 --> 36:29.997 happen or be discussed in a classified 36:29.997 --> 36:31.774 setting . But I guess the , the 36:31.774 --> 36:33.830 question um is that in terms of your 36:33.830 --> 36:35.774 command , I mean , you ST and your 36:35.774 --> 36:37.941 predecessors have testified to this in 36:37.941 --> 36:39.830 the past , uh , the , the Russian 36:39.830 --> 36:41.608 submarine activity in the North 36:41.608 --> 36:44.060 Atlantic is steadily surely in 2022 36:44.070 --> 36:46.989 2023 2024 growing . Is that correct ? 36:47.830 --> 36:51.280 Absolutely correct . And the , um , 36:51.500 --> 36:53.850 can you talk about the need for , uh , 36:53.860 --> 36:56.280 you know , our navy to , to again , 36:56.290 --> 36:59.050 have adequate attack submarine fleet to , 36:59.060 --> 37:02.189 to be out there to , uh , again safely 37:02.199 --> 37:04.366 and effectively conduct anti submarine 37:04.366 --> 37:06.649 warfare . Ye yes , Congressman , thank 37:06.659 --> 37:08.659 you for the opportunity . In fact , 37:08.659 --> 37:10.548 because I think it's an extremely 37:10.548 --> 37:12.603 important topic . Um , we absolutely 37:12.603 --> 37:14.492 have a need for a strong undersea 37:14.492 --> 37:16.560 warfare capability . Um , as you 37:16.570 --> 37:18.949 pointed out , the Russian losses in 37:18.959 --> 37:21.181 Ukraine have been primarily in the land 37:21.181 --> 37:23.280 domain . We do not see significant 37:23.290 --> 37:25.401 losses in the air domain , especially 37:25.401 --> 37:27.623 their long range and strategic aviation 37:27.623 --> 37:29.734 fleets other than the Black Sea fleet 37:29.734 --> 37:32.219 losses . We see no losses in the rest 37:32.229 --> 37:34.520 of the Russian navy fleet . Um And in 37:34.530 --> 37:37.156 the modernizing , rapidly modernizing 37:37.166 --> 37:39.565 nuclear forces , we see continued 37:39.575 --> 37:41.519 investment and heightened level of 37:41.519 --> 37:44.375 activities underwater , especially so , 37:44.385 --> 37:48.016 um , our ability to , to um handle that 37:48.186 --> 37:50.519 depends on a number of different things . 37:50.519 --> 37:52.353 But one of the primary things it 37:52.353 --> 37:54.297 depends on is our attack submarine 37:54.297 --> 37:56.575 fleet . And uh we have requirements um , 37:56.575 --> 37:59.711 that I share with uh US north com to 37:59.721 --> 38:02.642 defend the United States against , um , 38:02.652 --> 38:04.930 the threat posed by Russian submarines . 38:05.031 --> 38:06.809 And uh , we can always use more 38:06.809 --> 38:09.087 submarines to pursue that threat , sir . 38:09.087 --> 38:11.342 So just put it more , um you know , 38:11.352 --> 38:14.152 bluntly , I mean , your requests uh in 38:14.162 --> 38:16.218 terms of requirements are not met in 38:16.218 --> 38:18.329 terms of what is available , in terms 38:18.329 --> 38:20.218 of the missions , my requirements 38:20.218 --> 38:22.106 exceed what , what , what uh I am 38:22.106 --> 38:24.384 provided on , on uh on a regular basis . 38:24.691 --> 38:26.691 Thank you again , you mentioned the 38:26.691 --> 38:29.959 Black Sea . Um you know , um activities 38:29.969 --> 38:32.136 that are out there . I mean , in terms 38:32.136 --> 38:34.247 of people who are sort of have doubts 38:34.247 --> 38:36.469 about , you know , Ukraine's commitment 38:36.469 --> 38:38.802 to , to stay in the fight here . I mean , 38:38.802 --> 38:40.858 it , it actually has been just in my 38:40.858 --> 38:42.858 opinion , an underplayed success in 38:42.858 --> 38:45.136 terms of how they have uh with no navy , 38:45.136 --> 38:46.969 um , really been able to inflict 38:46.969 --> 38:49.120 incredible losses . 20% of the Black 38:49.129 --> 38:51.351 Sea fleet was the latest number I see , 38:51.351 --> 38:53.185 I saw . And can you just sort of 38:53.185 --> 38:55.407 comment in terms of , you know , that , 38:55.407 --> 38:57.879 um , sort of signal that , that , you 38:57.889 --> 39:00.000 know , they're , they're in the fight 39:00.000 --> 39:02.056 and there is a plan a a Absolutely . 39:02.056 --> 39:04.222 It's , it's , uh , it's easy sometimes 39:04.222 --> 39:06.389 I think congressman for us to stare at 39:06.389 --> 39:08.611 the fight on the land and think that it 39:08.611 --> 39:10.333 represents the totality of the 39:10.333 --> 39:12.510 situation . It does not the fight on 39:12.520 --> 39:14.520 the Black Sea and the fight for the 39:14.520 --> 39:16.798 Black Sea is an important part of this . 39:16.798 --> 39:18.853 It's especially important because of 39:18.853 --> 39:21.020 what it does for the Ukrainian economy 39:21.020 --> 39:23.076 without uh the rollback of the Black 39:23.076 --> 39:25.187 Sea fleet , we wouldn't be able to uh 39:25.187 --> 39:27.353 get as much of Ukraine's grain out and 39:27.353 --> 39:29.298 on to market that would cause food 39:29.298 --> 39:31.464 security problems across the globe and 39:31.464 --> 39:33.687 dear and acute problems for the economy 39:33.687 --> 39:35.798 of Ukraine , which is obviously under 39:35.798 --> 39:35.689 great stress as it is . I think the 39:35.699 --> 39:37.879 Ukrainians have done a fantastic and 39:37.889 --> 39:40.500 groundbreaking job using largely 39:40.510 --> 39:44.459 unmanned systems to push the Russian 39:44.469 --> 39:47.389 fleet back east of Crimea . It is very 39:47.399 --> 39:50.719 rare that a Russian warship ventures uh 39:50.729 --> 39:53.919 past the western , the ventures west of 39:53.929 --> 39:56.096 the southern tip of Crimea right now . 39:56.096 --> 39:58.096 It's , it's a big success story and 39:58.096 --> 40:02.080 it's theirs . Chair now recognizes 40:02.090 --> 40:04.201 the gentleman from Tennessee . Doctor 40:04.201 --> 40:07.360 Desjarlais . Thank you . Uh Doctor 40:07.370 --> 40:09.481 Wallander first , I want to say thank 40:09.481 --> 40:11.481 you . I was pleased to see that the 40:11.481 --> 40:13.648 Pentagon Pentagon's oig launched a new 40:13.648 --> 40:15.870 website last month . Uh that will allow 40:15.870 --> 40:17.870 the American people to directly see 40:17.870 --> 40:17.729 where our tax dollars are being spent 40:17.739 --> 40:19.795 to support Ukraine , something we've 40:19.795 --> 40:21.961 been talking about , I think for about 40:21.961 --> 40:24.072 six months in our briefings . Um It , 40:24.072 --> 40:26.295 it's still a pretty hard sell back home 40:26.295 --> 40:28.406 because people don't see a pathway to 40:28.406 --> 40:30.406 victory . Basically , you know what 40:30.406 --> 40:32.628 they're seeing is a stalemate that's dr 40:32.628 --> 40:34.850 drug on for two years now . And uh with 40:34.850 --> 40:36.906 the continued uh problems in our own 40:36.906 --> 40:39.017 country with the border , et cetera , 40:39.017 --> 40:40.906 it , it's hard to justify uh this 40:40.906 --> 40:43.128 spending even though most of us in this 40:43.128 --> 40:45.295 room understand the importance of it . 40:45.295 --> 40:47.517 You know , 11 message that does seem to 40:47.540 --> 40:49.651 sell back home is when you talk about 40:49.651 --> 40:52.280 the uh the evolving alliance between 40:52.290 --> 40:55.020 Russia , China , Iran and North Korea 40:55.030 --> 40:57.560 is almost an axis similar to World War 40:57.570 --> 41:00.840 Two , uh Germany and , and uh Italy and 41:00.850 --> 41:02.961 Japan . So that seems to get people's 41:02.961 --> 41:05.129 attention . What do you both see as a 41:05.139 --> 41:07.028 successful end of the conflict in 41:07.028 --> 41:09.260 Ukraine ? And what more can the 41:09.270 --> 41:11.103 administration and the dod do to 41:11.103 --> 41:13.560 message uh the reasoning for spending 41:13.570 --> 41:15.570 this money to the folks back home ? 41:17.100 --> 41:18.878 Thank you , Congressman . Uh In 41:18.878 --> 41:21.560 addition to the strategic strategic 41:21.570 --> 41:24.159 objectives uh that I already identified 41:24.169 --> 41:26.169 on as Ukraine remaining a sovereign 41:26.179 --> 41:29.489 independent European democracy . Um Let 41:29.500 --> 41:32.780 me clarify that we are also supporting 41:32.790 --> 41:35.370 Ukraine to put it in the best possible 41:35.379 --> 41:38.250 position . Should uh Russia want to 41:38.260 --> 41:40.379 negotiate an end to the conflict on 41:40.389 --> 41:42.729 Ukraine's terms in order for Ukraine to 41:42.739 --> 41:44.461 be in the driver's seat in any 41:44.461 --> 41:46.461 negotiation , they have to have the 41:46.461 --> 41:49.189 advantage and the military and security 41:49.199 --> 41:51.143 assistance support that we've been 41:51.143 --> 41:53.169 providing to Ukraine has given them 41:53.179 --> 41:55.012 significant advantages including 41:55.012 --> 41:57.012 controlling most of their Black Sea 41:57.012 --> 41:59.123 Coast as General Cavoli pointed out . 41:59.123 --> 42:01.310 So those are the stakes . Um And it , 42:01.340 --> 42:03.899 and the answer also has to be that 42:03.909 --> 42:06.131 constituents need to understand that of 42:06.131 --> 42:08.360 the $60 billion in the supplemental 42:08.370 --> 42:11.209 that was requested . 48 billion of that 42:11.300 --> 42:14.820 goes to American industry to uh either 42:14.830 --> 42:17.399 replenish us stocks or to procure for 42:17.409 --> 42:20.780 the longer term and to support General 42:20.969 --> 42:23.191 Police Forces in Europe who are working 42:23.191 --> 42:25.358 to defend and deter . So that is money 42:25.358 --> 42:28.050 going actually to American companies 42:28.060 --> 42:30.389 and to American citizens to support the 42:30.399 --> 42:32.288 work that they are doing for your 42:32.288 --> 42:34.455 European security . And I think that's 42:34.455 --> 42:36.621 a message the president should deliver 42:36.621 --> 42:38.621 directly to the country . I've said 42:38.621 --> 42:38.209 that before and I still think that , 42:38.219 --> 42:40.219 you know , they're not getting that 42:40.219 --> 42:42.219 message . I , I hear and understand 42:42.219 --> 42:44.441 what you're saying and I think it would 42:44.441 --> 42:44.280 help to hear that I wanted to get both 42:44.290 --> 42:46.889 your opinion on uh Secretary Blinken S 42:46.899 --> 42:49.310 announcement last week that Ukraine 42:49.320 --> 42:51.860 will become a member of NATO uh sooner 42:51.870 --> 42:53.759 or later , uh seems like a pretty 42:53.759 --> 42:55.926 provocative remark . And I want to see 42:55.926 --> 42:59.889 if you had any response to it US policy 42:59.899 --> 43:02.780 since uh I believe it was 43:02.790 --> 43:06.169 2008 has been that uh 43:06.179 --> 43:08.770 Ukraine will be a member of NATO 43:08.780 --> 43:10.729 someday . And we have focused our 43:10.739 --> 43:12.850 bilateral relationship as well as the 43:12.850 --> 43:15.649 work we do with NATO allies to bring 43:15.659 --> 43:17.881 Ukraine up to the standards of not just 43:17.881 --> 43:19.770 NATO membership but eu membership 43:19.770 --> 43:21.715 because that the aspiration of the 43:21.715 --> 43:23.659 Ukrainian people , they've elected 43:23.659 --> 43:25.603 leaders again and again , who have 43:25.603 --> 43:27.826 promised to keep Ukraine on that path . 43:27.826 --> 43:29.492 So that Secretary Blinken was 43:29.492 --> 43:31.659 reiterating a long standing bipartisan 43:31.659 --> 43:34.679 policy . Well , if memory serves just 43:34.689 --> 43:36.745 two years ago , that was a major red 43:36.745 --> 43:39.090 line for Putin . If Ukraine entered 43:39.100 --> 43:41.729 NATO , the escalation could go way 43:41.739 --> 43:44.020 beyond Ukraine , at least that was his 43:44.030 --> 43:46.197 threat . And one of the reasons that I 43:46.197 --> 43:48.308 think even Zelensky said Ukraine does 43:48.308 --> 43:50.530 not want to be a member of NATO , or at 43:50.530 --> 43:52.697 least at that time . So , it , it just 43:52.697 --> 43:55.310 seems , uh , antithetical in a way to 43:55.320 --> 43:57.376 throw that out there right now while 43:57.376 --> 43:59.487 we're trying to secure peace and , or 43:59.487 --> 44:01.542 victory in Ukraine . Uh , you know , 44:01.542 --> 44:03.764 maybe that's something that should have 44:03.764 --> 44:03.510 happened two years ago in hindsight . 44:03.520 --> 44:05.919 But who knows ? But , uh , it , it just 44:05.929 --> 44:08.439 seemed uh pretty bold , General . Did 44:08.449 --> 44:11.320 you have any opinion on that ? Um No , 44:11.330 --> 44:13.229 not with regard to us policy , 44:13.239 --> 44:15.461 Congressman . I I would just add from a 44:15.461 --> 44:18.129 nato's perspective . Um nato's agreed 44:18.139 --> 44:21.830 policy among the 32 nations is that um 44:21.840 --> 44:23.951 when the time is right and all allies 44:23.951 --> 44:26.439 agree , Ukraine will become uh a member 44:26.449 --> 44:28.227 of the alliance . But those two 44:28.227 --> 44:30.338 conditions are an important part of , 44:30.338 --> 44:33.260 of nato's uh nato's position and they 44:33.270 --> 44:35.969 have not been met yet . Ok . Go back 44:37.540 --> 44:39.596 chair and I recognize as a gentleman 44:39.596 --> 44:41.818 from California , Mr Garamendi for five 44:41.818 --> 44:43.929 minutes . Thank you , Mr Chairman and 44:43.929 --> 44:46.151 uh a personal thank you to you for your 44:46.151 --> 44:48.373 strong statement about the necessity of 44:48.373 --> 44:50.596 passing the supplemental bill . Uh your 44:50.596 --> 44:53.889 leadership and the colleagues , all of 44:53.899 --> 44:56.129 us on this committee play a critical 44:56.139 --> 44:59.149 role in getting that done . Uh And my 44:59.159 --> 45:01.103 question really goes to uh General 45:01.103 --> 45:04.219 Cavalli in your written statement . 45:05.250 --> 45:07.669 Uh You continue to use quote 45:08.860 --> 45:11.639 despite its military evident 45:11.649 --> 45:14.000 deficiencies , dysfunction , Russia 45:14.379 --> 45:16.601 continues to pose an existential threat 45:16.601 --> 45:19.840 to Ukraine . Ukraine cannot sustain the 45:19.850 --> 45:22.389 fight alone . The United States , our 45:22.399 --> 45:24.889 allies and partners must continue to 45:24.899 --> 45:27.080 provide Ukraine with munitions , 45:27.120 --> 45:30.810 weapons and material . How 45:30.820 --> 45:34.479 dire is the situation in 45:34.489 --> 45:37.659 Ukraine ? And what is the 45:38.639 --> 45:41.939 role of the United States not providing 45:42.800 --> 45:46.709 support to that dire situation ? If in 45:46.719 --> 45:50.179 fact , it is dire . Thank you , 45:50.189 --> 45:53.260 Congressman . The situation is 45:53.270 --> 45:57.199 extremely serious . The um 45:59.919 --> 46:02.540 the best way to think about this is in 46:02.550 --> 46:05.159 terms of what are the specific things 46:05.169 --> 46:08.550 that Ukraine needs our allies provide 46:08.560 --> 46:10.989 for some of those things , right ? Um 46:11.000 --> 46:14.389 For instance , tanks , 90% more than 46:14.399 --> 46:16.510 90% of the tanks that have been given 46:16.510 --> 46:18.399 have not been given by the United 46:18.399 --> 46:20.621 States . They've been given by allies , 46:20.621 --> 46:23.229 they sustained by allies . 100% of the 46:23.239 --> 46:26.229 uh fuel , the petroleum products that 46:26.239 --> 46:28.469 Ukraine needs have been provided by 46:28.479 --> 46:30.790 allies , not by , not by the United 46:30.800 --> 46:33.810 States , but there are two places where 46:33.820 --> 46:37.169 the American contribution is critical 46:37.260 --> 46:39.810 there in the provision of artillery 46:39.820 --> 46:42.979 munitions and interceptors for air 46:42.989 --> 46:45.770 defense . Those two things also happen 46:45.780 --> 46:48.070 to be the most critical things on the 46:48.080 --> 46:50.510 battlefield . The biggest killer on the 46:50.520 --> 46:53.280 battlefield is artillery um in most 46:53.290 --> 46:54.957 conflicts , but in this one , 46:54.957 --> 46:57.350 definitely . And should Ukraine run out , 46:57.810 --> 47:00.179 they would run out because we stopped 47:00.189 --> 47:02.356 supplying because we supply the lion's 47:02.356 --> 47:05.389 share of that 155 . Likewise , the um 47:05.399 --> 47:07.288 air defense interceptors sir , um 47:07.288 --> 47:10.750 Russia launches very large scale 47:10.760 --> 47:13.860 attacks every few days . Keeping with 47:13.870 --> 47:16.092 their production rate , what we believe 47:16.092 --> 47:18.148 their product to be , they produce , 47:18.148 --> 47:20.481 they save up , they launch a big attack . 47:20.481 --> 47:23.219 Those attacks would absolutely cripple 47:23.229 --> 47:25.949 the economy and the civil society as 47:25.959 --> 47:28.290 well as the military of Ukraine . If 47:28.300 --> 47:30.133 they were not defended against , 47:30.133 --> 47:33.429 without us provision of interceptors 47:33.530 --> 47:36.379 that will happen . And in closed 47:36.389 --> 47:38.278 session , uh Congressman , I'd be 47:38.278 --> 47:40.611 delighted to , to talk to you about the , 47:40.611 --> 47:43.280 um , uh , exact consumption rates and , 47:43.290 --> 47:45.870 and exactly how long I would predict uh 47:45.879 --> 47:48.409 things could go on without a , without 47:48.419 --> 47:52.379 a supplemental . I think it's 47:52.389 --> 47:55.419 extremely important that in an open 47:55.429 --> 47:58.780 session , we fully 47:58.790 --> 48:02.659 understand the critical situation and 48:02.669 --> 48:06.300 the time frames associated with it to 48:06.310 --> 48:08.929 the extent that you can describe it . 48:08.939 --> 48:10.828 You've already described it as an 48:10.828 --> 48:13.840 existential dire threat without the 48:13.850 --> 48:17.620 United States munitions 150 fives and 48:17.629 --> 48:18.439 air defense 48:21.770 --> 48:25.169 plow that field another time . If you 48:25.179 --> 48:27.346 want to restate it , restate it . It's 48:27.346 --> 48:30.810 absolutely critical that this Congress 48:30.820 --> 48:33.729 and the American public understand 48:35.419 --> 48:38.409 the situation . So say it again if you 48:38.419 --> 48:40.586 need to and Miss Waller , if you would 48:40.586 --> 48:42.389 also chime in here , from your 48:42.399 --> 48:46.360 perspective , just two points 48:46.370 --> 48:48.889 to reinforce this . We are already 48:48.899 --> 48:51.560 seeing the effects of the failure to 48:51.570 --> 48:53.737 pass the supplemental . The Ukrainians 48:53.737 --> 48:55.681 are having to use less artillery . 48:55.681 --> 48:57.681 They're having uh the Russians have 48:57.681 --> 48:59.792 made some advances and they're having 48:59.792 --> 49:01.903 to decide what to defend . And that's 49:01.903 --> 49:03.903 why the Russian attacks are getting 49:03.903 --> 49:05.792 through and uh really harming the 49:05.792 --> 49:08.040 Ukrainian electricity grid . So we're 49:08.050 --> 49:09.939 or we don't need to imagine we're 49:09.939 --> 49:13.469 already seeing it . So , um , 49:13.919 --> 49:16.889 the Ukrainians have been husbanding 49:16.899 --> 49:19.629 their shells in anticipation of , you 49:19.639 --> 49:21.806 know , the , the supply running out uh 49:21.806 --> 49:23.972 congressmen , they have been rationing 49:23.972 --> 49:26.389 them . They are now being outshot by 49:26.399 --> 49:29.889 the Russian side 5 to 1 . So Russians 49:29.899 --> 49:32.540 fire five times as many artillery 49:32.550 --> 49:34.439 shells at the Ukrainians than the 49:34.439 --> 49:36.830 Ukrainians are able to fire back . Um 49:36.840 --> 49:40.449 That will immediately go to 10 to 1 in 49:40.459 --> 49:43.409 a matter of weeks . Um We're not 49:43.419 --> 49:45.752 talking about months , we're not typing , 49:45.752 --> 49:48.719 talking hypothetically . Um uh Again , 49:48.729 --> 49:50.618 I'd like to be detailed in closed 49:50.618 --> 49:52.951 session , but we're talking about weeks . 49:52.951 --> 49:54.896 Uh Congressman , thank you for the 49:54.896 --> 49:57.062 opportunity to underline that I do not 49:57.062 --> 49:59.229 understand how they should win . And I 49:59.229 --> 49:59.070 recognize gentleman from Nebraska , uh 49:59.120 --> 50:02.659 Mr Bacon . Thank you both for being 50:02.669 --> 50:04.836 here . I appreciate your testimony . I 50:04.836 --> 50:06.669 was just meeting with Israeli uh 50:06.669 --> 50:08.889 families of hostages . So I may 50:08.899 --> 50:11.010 duplicate some of the questions . But 50:11.010 --> 50:13.177 um first thing I would like to know if 50:13.177 --> 50:16.129 Russians prevailed in Ukraine . What's 50:16.139 --> 50:18.330 the likely outcome for Moldova ? 50:20.959 --> 50:23.479 Well , Russia already occupies uh 50:23.489 --> 50:26.100 Moldovan territory . It uses that 50:26.110 --> 50:28.600 military occupation to subvert 50:28.610 --> 50:31.419 Moldova's democracy and its economy . 50:31.429 --> 50:33.540 Corruption is rampant because of that 50:33.540 --> 50:37.020 Russian influence . Um And Moldova is 50:37.030 --> 50:38.830 very much in Russian policy , 50:38.840 --> 50:40.784 unfinished business . They've been 50:40.784 --> 50:42.929 limited by being able to control more 50:42.939 --> 50:45.209 territory because Moldova because 50:45.219 --> 50:47.800 Ukraine stands between Moldova and 50:47.810 --> 50:51.419 Russia . Uh but uh Moldova is ranks 50:51.429 --> 50:53.649 high as part of Putin's unfinished 50:53.659 --> 50:55.548 business . It stands to reason if 50:55.548 --> 50:57.729 Ukraine falls , Moldova will be next . 50:58.120 --> 50:59.953 Also , Russian leaders have been 50:59.953 --> 51:02.290 threatening the Estonian Prime Minister , 51:02.360 --> 51:04.527 the Latvian Prime Minister , in fact , 51:04.527 --> 51:06.582 a leader and the Kremlin called them 51:06.582 --> 51:09.939 fake states . How much threat will the 51:09.949 --> 51:12.129 Baltics be under if Ukraine falls 51:15.649 --> 51:18.229 again ? Russian nationalists and Putin 51:18.239 --> 51:21.060 themselves are very public and clear 51:21.070 --> 51:23.310 that they believe that uh the status of 51:23.320 --> 51:25.542 the Baltic states as former elements of 51:25.542 --> 51:27.709 the Russian Empire um remains 51:27.719 --> 51:30.270 unresolved and that is business that 51:30.280 --> 51:33.090 they intend to get to . I do believe 51:33.100 --> 51:36.060 that NATO , nato's article five 51:36.070 --> 51:38.570 commitment is strong and credible and 51:38.580 --> 51:40.689 we need to keep it so , but we also 51:40.699 --> 51:42.477 need to make sure that Russia's 51:42.477 --> 51:44.689 operations in Ukraine are a failure . 51:44.699 --> 51:46.810 But what we're saying here is this is 51:46.810 --> 51:49.088 not this war with Ukraine , by the way , 51:49.088 --> 51:51.032 just on its own merits is barbaric 51:51.032 --> 51:54.189 Russia is invading a country that 51:55.379 --> 51:57.546 was independent , wanted to go towards 51:57.546 --> 51:59.879 the West , wanted to go to free markets . 51:59.879 --> 52:02.219 I was a unprovoked invasion by , by 52:02.229 --> 52:04.340 Russia . So it's , it's banned in its 52:04.340 --> 52:06.669 own right . But this war with Ukraine 52:06.679 --> 52:08.790 is not just about Ukraine . Would you 52:08.790 --> 52:11.250 agree ? I absolutely agree with you , 52:11.260 --> 52:14.370 sir . Well , thank you . I am the 52:14.379 --> 52:16.490 politics Security chair . I'd like to 52:16.490 --> 52:18.601 maybe ask General Cavoli if you could 52:18.601 --> 52:20.546 talk a little bit about what we're 52:20.546 --> 52:22.657 doing there . I , I know we're trying 52:22.657 --> 52:22.560 to get better air defenses . We're 52:22.570 --> 52:24.879 trying to get more , uh , a division 52:24.959 --> 52:27.070 equivalent there . But could you give 52:27.070 --> 52:27.040 us an update on how we're doing ? 52:27.050 --> 52:29.161 Because I think it's very much in our 52:29.161 --> 52:31.272 national security interest . I have a 52:31.272 --> 52:33.328 deterrence in the Baltics . First of 52:33.328 --> 52:35.383 all , congressman , I , I agree with 52:35.383 --> 52:35.350 you on that last point . Absolutely . I 52:35.360 --> 52:38.679 think , uh , our ability to help deter 52:38.820 --> 52:40.959 conflict in the Baltics is , is 52:40.969 --> 52:42.879 extremely important . It is a 52:42.889 --> 52:45.110 vulnerable part , geographically 52:45.120 --> 52:47.409 speaking , military geography of the 52:47.419 --> 52:49.586 alliance . I would also point out that 52:49.586 --> 52:52.540 uh Doctor wanders comments about um 52:52.550 --> 52:54.606 about Russia's intentions , which uh 52:54.606 --> 52:56.494 which reflected yours , those are 52:56.494 --> 52:58.217 shared by the leaders of those 52:58.217 --> 53:00.106 countries . Um And they feel them 53:00.106 --> 53:01.994 acutely and talk to me about them 53:01.994 --> 53:03.883 frequently and I agree with their 53:03.883 --> 53:06.106 concerns . Um So , uh Congress has been 53:06.106 --> 53:08.525 very generous and provided for a Baltic 53:08.535 --> 53:10.766 um initiative , security initiative . 53:11.055 --> 53:13.635 Let's point out uh our initiative which 53:14.456 --> 53:17.196 brag on it , we're about uh 1.4 billion 53:17.206 --> 53:19.996 into that right now . Um We uh have 53:20.006 --> 53:22.805 started with air and missile defense um 53:22.991 --> 53:25.213 improvements we've completed the sensor 53:25.213 --> 53:27.102 network and now we're moving into 53:27.102 --> 53:29.269 effectors or the shooters . Uh I think 53:29.269 --> 53:31.158 it's having a big effect there in 53:31.158 --> 53:33.380 parallel . We've got the plans in place 53:33.380 --> 53:35.380 for the other five components which 53:35.380 --> 53:37.547 include land forces , medical forces , 53:37.547 --> 53:39.713 and the other things you're aware of . 53:39.713 --> 53:39.412 Sir , it's going very well . I mean , 53:39.422 --> 53:41.589 we have eager , eager partners there , 53:41.589 --> 53:43.961 right ? The three Baltic countries um I 53:44.021 --> 53:46.211 in and of themselves just individually 53:46.221 --> 53:48.491 are very serious about their defense , 53:48.597 --> 53:50.653 have done , you know , extraordinary 53:50.653 --> 53:52.875 things to , to prepare different things 53:52.875 --> 53:55.041 in some cases , but extraordinary , in 53:55.041 --> 53:56.653 the case of Latvia , they've 53:56.653 --> 53:58.986 reintroduced conscription , for example , 53:58.986 --> 54:01.208 um which is not something we would have 54:01.208 --> 54:03.430 been thinking about some years ago . Um 54:03.430 --> 54:05.541 uh In addition to the Baltic security 54:05.541 --> 54:07.597 initiative , we're doing a few other 54:07.597 --> 54:09.486 things . Um As the Supreme Allied 54:09.486 --> 54:11.653 Commander for Europe , I'm responsible 54:11.653 --> 54:13.764 to put together a plan for rotational 54:13.764 --> 54:15.819 air and missile defense . One of the 54:15.819 --> 54:17.930 primary locations for those rotations 54:17.930 --> 54:20.097 is going to be in the Baltic country . 54:20.097 --> 54:22.208 And then we have bilateral agreements 54:22.208 --> 54:21.364 that have been made between our 54:21.374 --> 54:23.864 secretary and the uh and the ministers 54:23.874 --> 54:26.164 of all three countries . So as uh the 54:26.174 --> 54:28.194 US European Command commander , I 54:28.204 --> 54:30.063 maintain forces in each of those 54:30.073 --> 54:32.129 countries . They work to improve our 54:32.129 --> 54:34.351 interoperability and uh and stiffen the 54:34.351 --> 54:36.573 uh the the the defense capabilities . I 54:36.573 --> 54:38.517 don't have really time for another 54:38.517 --> 54:40.851 question , but I have to make a comment . 54:40.851 --> 54:42.795 So I'm free to chew on . I support 54:42.795 --> 54:44.740 having armored units in Poland and 54:44.740 --> 54:46.629 Eastern Europe . But being at the 54:46.629 --> 54:48.851 rotational , it's putting a huge strain 54:48.851 --> 54:50.962 on the families . And we saw a report 54:50.962 --> 54:53.073 that suicide rates for folks in these 54:53.073 --> 54:55.240 armored units are significantly higher 54:55.240 --> 54:57.240 than the rest of the army . I think 54:57.240 --> 54:56.760 they need some kind of stability , 54:56.770 --> 54:58.937 maybe permanency there . We don't have 54:58.937 --> 55:01.103 time for you to answer . But this is a 55:01.103 --> 55:03.326 huge concern for many of us . Thank you 55:03.326 --> 55:05.548 ad Yeah . And , and I would echo that I 55:05.548 --> 55:07.770 would like to have more discussion with 55:07.770 --> 55:09.937 you general about exactly that point . 55:09.937 --> 55:11.937 Uh But anyway , we'll recognize the 55:11.937 --> 55:13.826 gentleman from Massachusetts , Mr 55:13.826 --> 55:15.992 Keating . Thank you , Mr Chairman , uh 55:15.992 --> 55:17.992 General Cavalli . Uh You , you term 55:17.992 --> 55:20.048 this is extremely serious . You said 55:20.048 --> 55:22.270 that the severity of this moment , this 55:22.270 --> 55:24.560 moment can't be overstated . And I've 55:24.570 --> 55:27.090 heard political deflection here in this 55:27.100 --> 55:29.156 committee today and I hear it out uh 55:29.156 --> 55:31.267 outside of this committee room on the 55:31.267 --> 55:33.540 floor , I hear it uh in all kinds of 55:33.550 --> 55:35.919 news reports , deflection , deflection 55:35.929 --> 55:38.929 that uh mentioning President Biden that , 55:38.939 --> 55:40.939 you know , two or three years ago , 55:40.939 --> 55:42.828 maybe he should have done more uh 55:42.828 --> 55:44.883 deflection that there's no policy in 55:44.883 --> 55:47.106 spite of the fact that Doctor Wallander 55:47.106 --> 55:49.217 just concisely laid out our policy uh 55:49.217 --> 55:51.830 very clearly deflection that Europe's 55:51.840 --> 55:54.062 not doing enough . And why should we uh 55:54.062 --> 55:56.396 do anything if they're not doing enough ? 55:56.396 --> 55:58.669 And we know that the GDP of European 55:58.679 --> 56:00.401 countries is greater than ours 56:00.401 --> 56:02.512 committed to this . We know that uh a 56:02.512 --> 56:04.512 new NATO country like Finland uh is 56:04.512 --> 56:07.800 committed to 10 years uh of their fight 56:07.810 --> 56:09.810 against Ukraine . We know even that 56:09.810 --> 56:11.866 historically , Germany for the first 56:11.866 --> 56:13.977 time since World War two is deploying 56:13.977 --> 56:16.360 troops uh right in Lithuania , uh 56:16.370 --> 56:18.592 something that you wouldn't believe was 56:18.592 --> 56:22.159 possible even uh a year ago uh to , to 56:22.169 --> 56:24.002 put a line of defense up against 56:24.002 --> 56:26.225 Russia's aggression and we've heard the 56:26.225 --> 56:29.000 name Biden again and Biden again . Yet 56:29.010 --> 56:31.770 we're here right now in this Congress 56:31.820 --> 56:34.889 with our responsibility . Uh and one 56:34.899 --> 56:37.870 person is holding this up , one person 56:37.879 --> 56:40.780 is holding up a , a huge bipartisan 56:40.790 --> 56:42.840 supported package in the Senate , 56:43.010 --> 56:44.954 supported by the president and the 56:44.954 --> 56:47.159 administration supported by the 56:47.169 --> 56:49.225 majority of people in this committee 56:49.225 --> 56:51.760 across the aisle . And I think are 56:51.770 --> 56:54.610 close to 300 members on the floor . One 56:54.620 --> 56:56.989 person , but I have never heard the 56:57.000 --> 56:59.600 name . Speaker Johnson invoked once , 57:00.370 --> 57:03.429 not once the person that is holding 57:03.439 --> 57:06.530 this up , not once . And I hope through 57:06.540 --> 57:08.596 the community that we'll hear that , 57:08.596 --> 57:10.899 that name because he is holding this up 57:11.379 --> 57:13.601 and we , we need action right now which 57:13.601 --> 57:15.768 you've made very clearly . One thing I 57:15.768 --> 57:18.919 want to uh extend or uh is the idea 57:18.929 --> 57:22.260 that China is looking . Uh China is 57:22.270 --> 57:25.370 doing more than looking right now . Uh 57:25.639 --> 57:28.020 Chinese have entered an agreement with 57:28.030 --> 57:31.280 Hungary , led by President Orban who 57:31.290 --> 57:33.123 the former president praises and 57:33.123 --> 57:36.020 emulates uh inked an agreement to 57:36.030 --> 57:38.141 allowing Chinese police to patrol the 57:38.141 --> 57:40.252 streets of Hungary , a NATO country . 57:41.360 --> 57:43.582 China's helped rebuild Russia's defense 57:43.582 --> 57:45.709 industrially . Uh and uh and 57:45.719 --> 57:47.941 economically militarily has helped them 57:47.941 --> 57:50.439 in this war . Uh providing non lethal 57:50.449 --> 57:52.671 assistance in drones and computer chips 57:52.671 --> 57:54.782 and increase imports in Russian goods 57:54.782 --> 57:58.739 by 12% last year . China's no 57:58.750 --> 58:00.806 limit partnership has been parroting 58:00.806 --> 58:02.949 Russian disinformation about Ukraine 58:05.110 --> 58:07.166 and several European ports have been 58:07.166 --> 58:09.221 entered into agreements with China's 58:09.221 --> 58:11.110 National Transportation Logistics 58:11.110 --> 58:13.277 Public Information platform . Where uh 58:13.277 --> 58:15.388 they present a risk , I believe to us 58:15.388 --> 58:17.610 and NATO allies that use these European 58:17.610 --> 58:19.830 ports to ship military equipment 58:19.840 --> 58:21.896 throughout the region . So all these 58:21.896 --> 58:24.062 things are real and we do nothing here 58:24.062 --> 58:26.007 in Congress when we can do the one 58:26.007 --> 58:28.540 thing to be the most important thing at 58:28.550 --> 58:31.580 this moment . Uh That's so serious . I 58:31.600 --> 58:33.822 just want to comment for those two that 58:33.822 --> 58:36.449 don't recognize the threat to the rest 58:36.459 --> 58:38.919 of Europe uh in terms of the Russian 58:38.929 --> 58:41.096 aggression in Ukraine . And that's the 58:41.096 --> 58:43.159 fact that just a few weeks ago , 58:44.030 --> 58:46.620 Belarus began military exercises on its 58:46.629 --> 58:48.889 border , Belarus , the ally of Russia 58:48.899 --> 58:52.550 in this uh the proxy of Russia in this , 58:53.040 --> 58:55.320 uh they began military exercise on the 58:55.330 --> 58:57.830 border , not just with Ukraine , but 58:57.840 --> 59:01.330 with Lithuania and Poland . So I'd ask 59:01.340 --> 59:03.929 uh about the significance of this and , 59:03.939 --> 59:06.370 and to emphasize once again , what the 59:06.379 --> 59:08.546 threat is to the rest of Europe here , 59:08.546 --> 59:11.510 including uh with this recent military 59:11.520 --> 59:14.239 exercise to NATO countries where we 59:14.250 --> 59:16.250 have an article five Commitment , a 59:16.250 --> 59:18.250 commitment that Europe , uh and our 59:18.250 --> 59:20.320 rest of our allies came to our call 59:20.330 --> 59:24.080 after 911 to uh do everything we can 59:24.090 --> 59:25.979 including deploying troops on the 59:25.979 --> 59:28.201 ground , us troops on the ground if you 59:28.201 --> 59:30.257 could . Uh Thank you , Congressman . 59:30.257 --> 59:33.719 Yeah . So , uh if Belarus is an 59:33.729 --> 59:37.459 extension of Russia and its military is 59:37.469 --> 59:39.525 an extension of the Russian military 59:39.560 --> 59:42.020 that closes the gap between the Russian 59:42.030 --> 59:44.800 armed forces and NATO and that presents 59:44.810 --> 59:47.280 additional problems in terms of uh time 59:47.290 --> 59:49.879 space , in strictly military terms . 59:50.020 --> 59:52.300 Our allies there realize that our 59:52.310 --> 59:54.280 allies uh when faced with the 59:54.290 --> 59:58.060 weaponization of immigration . Um Last 59:58.070 --> 01:00:00.237 a couple of years , both uh you know , 01:00:00.237 --> 01:00:03.120 uh state sponsored pushes of migrants 01:00:03.129 --> 01:00:05.185 across the border into Poland , into 01:00:05.185 --> 01:00:07.330 Lithuania , both responded by , by uh 01:00:07.340 --> 01:00:09.709 fortifying the border and closing the 01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:12.489 border with Belarus . Um So , so 01:00:12.500 --> 01:00:14.722 relations with Belarus are going in the 01:00:14.722 --> 01:00:16.722 wrong direction and it's because of 01:00:16.722 --> 01:00:18.556 Russia and it does have military 01:00:18.556 --> 01:00:20.444 complications . Um And , and uh I 01:00:20.444 --> 01:00:22.340 beyond that , perhaps uh Doctor 01:00:22.350 --> 01:00:24.639 Wallinger has something to say , well , 01:00:24.649 --> 01:00:27.360 thank you very much . I you back Mr 01:00:27.370 --> 01:00:29.426 Morland . You're recognized for five 01:00:29.426 --> 01:00:33.100 minutes . Thank you , Mr 01:00:33.110 --> 01:00:36.070 Chairman and thank you General for your 01:00:36.080 --> 01:00:38.136 leadership and working with our NATO 01:00:38.136 --> 01:00:40.358 allies . There's a lot of coordinations 01:00:40.358 --> 01:00:42.524 to do , but obviously you're asking us 01:00:42.524 --> 01:00:44.413 to continue to support which I ab 01:00:44.413 --> 01:00:47.300 absolutely do . Our allies of course , 01:00:47.310 --> 01:00:49.300 are , are important in our future 01:00:49.310 --> 01:00:53.020 battles as well . And general , my 01:00:53.030 --> 01:00:55.800 first question regards just that and 01:00:55.810 --> 01:00:57.989 nato's responsibility and what they're 01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:00.270 able to do for future battles 01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:02.590 specifically as we look at Guam , 01:01:02.600 --> 01:01:04.656 Hawaii and other US , Pacific Island 01:01:04.656 --> 01:01:06.949 territories who are not covered under 01:01:06.959 --> 01:01:09.729 article five of the NATO chapter , 01:01:09.739 --> 01:01:11.860 meaning if these jurisdictions were 01:01:11.870 --> 01:01:13.870 attacked , NATO allies would not be 01:01:13.870 --> 01:01:16.092 obligated to defend the United States . 01:01:16.092 --> 01:01:18.203 Now , while many countries have vowed 01:01:18.310 --> 01:01:20.254 they vowed to defend the US in the 01:01:20.254 --> 01:01:23.699 Pacific , what assurance can Eurocom 01:01:23.709 --> 01:01:25.500 give to my constituents in Guam 01:01:25.510 --> 01:01:27.860 regarding the relationship to NATO . 01:01:28.550 --> 01:01:32.350 Thanks Congressman . Uh First , a 01:01:32.360 --> 01:01:34.693 little bit about a little bit about the , 01:01:34.693 --> 01:01:37.439 the um coverage of the North Atlantic 01:01:37.449 --> 01:01:39.560 Treaty or the Washington Treaty as it 01:01:39.560 --> 01:01:41.671 were uh article six lays out what the 01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:44.810 boundaries are uh that were agreed at 01:01:44.820 --> 01:01:48.169 the time . Um and have been routinely 01:01:48.179 --> 01:01:50.260 updated o over the years . It's uh 01:01:50.270 --> 01:01:53.429 north of the tropic of cancer . Um is , 01:01:53.439 --> 01:01:56.219 is the first thing that excludes um 01:01:56.229 --> 01:02:00.120 French uh possessions in um in uh 01:02:00.129 --> 01:02:02.699 Polynesia like French Polynesia . It , 01:02:02.919 --> 01:02:05.141 it excludes uh British possessions such 01:02:05.149 --> 01:02:07.540 as the Pitcairn Islands . And uh it 01:02:07.550 --> 01:02:11.479 technically excludes Guam . Um However , 01:02:11.489 --> 01:02:14.699 uh that is changeable , it is amendable . 01:02:15.010 --> 01:02:17.530 Um All nations to include the United 01:02:17.540 --> 01:02:19.651 States have elected not to amend that 01:02:19.651 --> 01:02:21.762 over the years and opportunities have 01:02:21.762 --> 01:02:23.929 come up . So as a highly technical 01:02:23.939 --> 01:02:26.179 matter that that's correct . However , 01:02:26.370 --> 01:02:28.860 any nation under article four , any 01:02:28.870 --> 01:02:31.037 nation that's attacked , any place can 01:02:31.037 --> 01:02:33.260 always invoke consultations under our 01:02:33.649 --> 01:02:35.939 four , say I have been attacked and I 01:02:35.949 --> 01:02:38.116 expect the rest of you to do something 01:02:38.116 --> 01:02:40.338 about it and they may or may not choose 01:02:40.338 --> 01:02:42.830 to apply article five no matter what um 01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:44.909 the treaty says . So it is , it is a 01:02:44.919 --> 01:02:46.919 technicality , is it a technicality 01:02:46.919 --> 01:02:49.086 that's within our hands to , to , to , 01:02:49.086 --> 01:02:51.820 to amend ? But I also think it's um 01:02:52.040 --> 01:02:54.600 it's an extremely unlikely scenario and 01:02:54.610 --> 01:02:56.832 I know that our allies are committed to 01:02:56.832 --> 01:02:58.943 our defense just as we are to there , 01:02:58.943 --> 01:03:01.054 sir . Thank you , General . It's very 01:03:01.054 --> 01:03:03.310 assuring and appreciate that . Uh My 01:03:03.320 --> 01:03:04.931 final question is the future 01:03:04.931 --> 01:03:07.042 battlefields will present some unique 01:03:07.042 --> 01:03:08.820 challenges in the form of great 01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:12.010 distance in air and sea . On 2021 rear 01:03:12.020 --> 01:03:14.949 Admiral Duke Hines , chief logistic uh 01:03:14.959 --> 01:03:18.179 for your com stated the contest 01:03:18.189 --> 01:03:22.070 environment demands swift adaptability 01:03:22.080 --> 01:03:24.409 and flexibility to develop new ways to 01:03:24.419 --> 01:03:26.308 address challenges . One of those 01:03:26.308 --> 01:03:28.250 challenges will be the medical 01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:30.419 evacuation of our service members . 01:03:30.570 --> 01:03:32.489 General given the different 01:03:32.500 --> 01:03:34.167 environments and climates and 01:03:34.167 --> 01:03:36.800 geographic com combatant commands . Has 01:03:36.810 --> 01:03:38.989 there been talks of best practices for 01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:41.350 the most effective medical evaluation 01:03:41.360 --> 01:03:43.679 plans that will result in the continued 01:03:43.689 --> 01:03:45.709 tactical operational and strategic 01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:49.189 advantages for our various uh commands 01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:51.760 and combating commanders . Yeah , a 01:03:51.770 --> 01:03:53.992 absolutely congressman . It's something 01:03:53.992 --> 01:03:56.159 we work on quite a bit , we work on it 01:03:56.159 --> 01:03:58.270 even harder now because of what we're 01:03:58.270 --> 01:04:00.326 observing in Ukraine , right ? The , 01:04:00.326 --> 01:04:02.326 the the casualty rates are just are 01:04:02.326 --> 01:04:03.992 just enormous . Uh And if you 01:04:03.992 --> 01:04:06.048 contemplate a large scale war across 01:04:06.048 --> 01:04:08.214 the European continent , we can expect 01:04:08.214 --> 01:04:10.929 them to be greater . Um So uh medical 01:04:10.939 --> 01:04:13.100 evacuation and casualty evacuation 01:04:13.340 --> 01:04:15.510 inside the European theater would 01:04:15.520 --> 01:04:18.629 necessarily and inevitably include 01:04:18.639 --> 01:04:20.709 civilian infrastructure and we have 01:04:20.719 --> 01:04:22.830 coordinations cells in NATO that help 01:04:22.830 --> 01:04:25.110 us do that . And Duke Heintz also was 01:04:25.120 --> 01:04:27.629 responsible for making sure that as us 01:04:27.639 --> 01:04:29.861 European command , we were plugged into 01:04:29.861 --> 01:04:32.459 that system . Um It , it it is 01:04:32.469 --> 01:04:35.350 complicated because each country has 01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:37.471 its own national health system . Some 01:04:37.471 --> 01:04:39.693 don't have national health systems . So 01:04:39.693 --> 01:04:41.693 there's quite a patchwork to be put 01:04:41.693 --> 01:04:43.638 together at the tactical level . I 01:04:43.638 --> 01:04:45.749 think , you know , getting a casualty 01:04:45.749 --> 01:04:47.916 off the battlefield is something we're 01:04:47.916 --> 01:04:50.138 entirely capable of doing . The further 01:04:50.138 --> 01:04:52.193 processing of casualties beyond . Uh 01:04:52.193 --> 01:04:52.189 that is where it would become 01:04:52.199 --> 01:04:54.199 complicated . Uh The second point I 01:04:54.199 --> 01:04:56.310 would make on this has to do with the 01:04:56.310 --> 01:04:57.977 defense health agency and the 01:04:57.977 --> 01:05:00.255 transition to a new health care system . 01:05:00.255 --> 01:05:02.315 Um The health care system , the 01:05:02.325 --> 01:05:04.269 military health care system in the 01:05:04.269 --> 01:05:06.214 European theater . And I believe L 01:05:06.214 --> 01:05:08.381 Aquilino feels this way in the Pacific 01:05:08.381 --> 01:05:10.603 as well is actually an inherent part of 01:05:10.603 --> 01:05:12.658 our combat capability . And so we've 01:05:12.658 --> 01:05:15.486 been lucky to be able to um to uh be 01:05:15.496 --> 01:05:17.552 sort of last in line for some of the 01:05:17.552 --> 01:05:19.607 transition . And the final thing I'd 01:05:19.607 --> 01:05:21.718 say is um I am concerned about this . 01:05:21.718 --> 01:05:23.885 One of the only things I offered as an 01:05:23.885 --> 01:05:25.996 unfunded priority uh back to the back 01:05:25.996 --> 01:05:28.107 to the Congress this year , sir , was 01:05:28.107 --> 01:05:30.052 the construction of an aeromedical 01:05:30.052 --> 01:05:32.451 evacuation facility at Ramstein . Thank 01:05:32.461 --> 01:05:34.350 you for the opportunity , sir . I 01:05:34.350 --> 01:05:36.405 appreciate that . Thank you for your 01:05:36.405 --> 01:05:38.572 leadership and protecting our nation . 01:05:38.572 --> 01:05:37.991 Thank you . And I recognize a gentle 01:05:38.001 --> 01:05:40.332 lady from Michigan Min , thank you , 01:05:40.342 --> 01:05:42.979 chairman . Um And I want to appreciate 01:05:42.989 --> 01:05:45.590 our chairman and ranking member for 01:05:45.600 --> 01:05:48.600 their bipartisan support for aid . Um 01:05:48.610 --> 01:05:50.666 We do need to get it over the finish 01:05:50.666 --> 01:05:53.179 line and supporting it um here in 01:05:53.189 --> 01:05:55.860 committee and supporting it um out in 01:05:55.870 --> 01:05:58.310 the world is great , but we need to get 01:05:58.320 --> 01:06:00.264 it on the floor . We've heard this 01:06:00.264 --> 01:06:02.209 repeatedly . Speaker Johnson has a 01:06:02.209 --> 01:06:04.320 choice to make . I accept that it's a 01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:06.542 complicated choice . I accept that he's 01:06:06.542 --> 01:06:08.542 at risk of losing his job over that 01:06:08.542 --> 01:06:10.820 choice . But that's what leadership is . 01:06:10.820 --> 01:06:12.709 It's , it's the big boy pants and 01:06:12.709 --> 01:06:15.732 making tough choices . Um , I , I also 01:06:15.742 --> 01:06:17.853 want to note that there's a discharge 01:06:17.853 --> 01:06:20.020 petition right now on the floor of the 01:06:20.020 --> 01:06:22.462 house . It's the exact bipartisan bill 01:06:22.472 --> 01:06:24.625 that Senate passed that includes 01:06:24.635 --> 01:06:27.125 Ukraine Aid . We have one Republican um 01:06:27.135 --> 01:06:29.357 who signed it on his way out the door . 01:06:29.357 --> 01:06:31.524 We need , I think two more in order to 01:06:31.524 --> 01:06:33.746 have a vote that will pass on the house 01:06:33.746 --> 01:06:36.805 floor . So we're not um without uh 01:06:36.815 --> 01:06:39.625 action here or without actions that we 01:06:39.635 --> 01:06:41.691 can take to move this forward , even 01:06:41.691 --> 01:06:44.246 members of this committee , um You've 01:06:44.256 --> 01:06:45.812 spoken eloquently about the 01:06:45.812 --> 01:06:48.926 consequences of not providing aid about 01:06:48.936 --> 01:06:51.176 what Putin will do or what he's proven 01:06:51.186 --> 01:06:53.540 to do . I mean , what he's demonstrated , 01:06:53.550 --> 01:06:55.606 he will do . You've talked about how 01:06:55.606 --> 01:06:57.828 China is watching and the demonstration 01:06:57.828 --> 01:06:59.883 this is setting um to my knowledge , 01:06:59.883 --> 01:07:01.883 unless someone corrects me , we the 01:07:01.883 --> 01:07:03.828 United States of America has never 01:07:03.828 --> 01:07:06.050 allowed a sitting democracy to be taken 01:07:06.050 --> 01:07:08.272 over by a sitting autocracy since World 01:07:08.272 --> 01:07:10.459 War Two . Um correct me if I'm wrong . 01:07:10.469 --> 01:07:12.636 So this would be precedent sending and 01:07:12.636 --> 01:07:14.802 Ronald Reagan is right now spinning in 01:07:14.802 --> 01:07:16.913 his grave um that we are giving up um 01:07:16.913 --> 01:07:19.136 or threatening to give up on peace vers 01:07:19.136 --> 01:07:21.959 uh peace through strength . Um um And I 01:07:21.969 --> 01:07:25.010 am super confused by the messages 01:07:25.020 --> 01:07:27.131 coming out of the other , some of the 01:07:27.131 --> 01:07:29.242 members of , of the other side of the 01:07:29.242 --> 01:07:31.242 aisle , both here and in the Senate 01:07:31.242 --> 01:07:33.353 about how Vladimir Putin should get a 01:07:33.353 --> 01:07:35.576 choice on who gets in NATO that somehow 01:07:35.576 --> 01:07:37.899 he has a veto over our alliances . Um 01:07:37.909 --> 01:07:40.076 And maybe that , that logic would make 01:07:40.076 --> 01:07:41.965 sense if we thought that it would 01:07:41.965 --> 01:07:43.742 prevent him from invading other 01:07:43.750 --> 01:07:45.806 countries , if a deal with him would 01:07:45.806 --> 01:07:47.639 pre prevent . But he's gone into 01:07:47.639 --> 01:07:49.639 Moldova and Georgia and Ukraine and 01:07:49.639 --> 01:07:51.820 Ukraine again . So like he's done it , 01:07:51.830 --> 01:07:54.600 people , there is no deterring him . Um 01:07:54.610 --> 01:07:56.777 Unless we take a strong stand and that 01:07:56.777 --> 01:07:59.320 includes us aid . Um I saw a report in 01:07:59.330 --> 01:08:02.090 the Washington Post yesterday that made 01:08:02.100 --> 01:08:05.840 my breath vacate my body that 01:08:05.850 --> 01:08:09.090 while we're complaining about um how 01:08:09.100 --> 01:08:12.760 the rise of , of uh Iranian weapons are 01:08:12.770 --> 01:08:15.639 being used by the Russians in Ukraine 01:08:15.750 --> 01:08:17.806 that out of desperation , the United 01:08:17.806 --> 01:08:19.861 States of America is now sending sea 01:08:19.861 --> 01:08:22.104 Iranian weapons from the Houthis , from 01:08:22.115 --> 01:08:25.845 Yemen area to Ukraine . Um Please give 01:08:25.854 --> 01:08:28.174 me the details on that . Um And help us 01:08:28.185 --> 01:08:31.345 understand um uh just the depths of our 01:08:31.354 --> 01:08:34.125 desperation , I guess . Uh A SD 01:08:34.134 --> 01:08:37.100 Wallander . Uh Well , I can talk more 01:08:37.109 --> 01:08:39.053 about the details of provisions of 01:08:39.053 --> 01:08:41.219 specific capabilities to Ukraine . Uh 01:08:41.229 --> 01:08:43.778 But we have used every opportunity to 01:08:43.789 --> 01:08:47.309 find ways uh since December to find 01:08:47.318 --> 01:08:49.374 extra stocks to work with allies and 01:08:49.374 --> 01:08:51.699 partners . Uh And we have had to get 01:08:51.708 --> 01:08:54.159 quite creative . Um And the Ukrainians 01:08:54.168 --> 01:08:56.168 have made good use of that while we 01:08:56.168 --> 01:08:58.501 wait for a decision on the supplemental . 01:08:58.501 --> 01:09:00.769 I just , I think , um again , if Ronald 01:09:00.778 --> 01:09:03.289 Reagan was spinning um at our hesitance 01:09:03.298 --> 01:09:05.778 and providing arms to Ukraine , he is , 01:09:05.789 --> 01:09:08.919 I don't know what , um exploding . Um 01:09:08.930 --> 01:09:10.986 If you would see that seized Iranian 01:09:10.986 --> 01:09:13.299 weapons are now helping a partner , um 01:09:13.470 --> 01:09:15.248 you know , stave off uh further 01:09:15.248 --> 01:09:18.410 invasion of their country . Um uh Can 01:09:18.419 --> 01:09:22.390 you um outline for us what you think um 01:09:22.399 --> 01:09:25.899 uh additional air defenses could do or 01:09:25.910 --> 01:09:27.966 basically , can you outline what you 01:09:27.966 --> 01:09:30.240 think would be sort of the next things 01:09:30.250 --> 01:09:32.417 that we would want to provide in terms 01:09:32.417 --> 01:09:34.361 of not quantity but quality to the 01:09:34.361 --> 01:09:36.472 Ukrainians that might have a decisive 01:09:36.472 --> 01:09:38.417 impact . We have lots of questions 01:09:38.417 --> 01:09:40.785 about air defenses . Um But can you 01:09:40.794 --> 01:09:43.294 walk me through um a certain systems 01:09:43.305 --> 01:09:45.527 that in this next tranche that would be 01:09:45.527 --> 01:09:47.305 decisive ? So thank you for the 01:09:47.305 --> 01:09:49.249 question because I wanna highlight 01:09:49.249 --> 01:09:51.194 something that often gets missed , 01:09:51.194 --> 01:09:53.138 which is uh the , the supplemental 01:09:53.138 --> 01:09:55.194 would include not just PD a urgent , 01:09:55.194 --> 01:09:57.083 the , the , the capability we can 01:09:57.083 --> 01:09:59.249 deliver next week as fast as you can , 01:09:59.249 --> 01:10:01.361 can move it . But putting on contract 01:10:01.361 --> 01:10:03.527 things like patriot systems , missiles 01:10:03.527 --> 01:10:05.749 for replenishment missiles for nay Sams 01:10:05.749 --> 01:10:07.972 replenishment missiles for patriots and 01:10:07.972 --> 01:10:10.770 those are uh long lead times , but the 01:10:10.779 --> 01:10:12.946 sooner we can put them on contract the 01:10:12.946 --> 01:10:15.112 sooner we can get them to Ukraine . So 01:10:15.112 --> 01:10:17.112 Russia knows that , that they can't 01:10:17.112 --> 01:10:18.890 wait us out , that Ukraine will 01:10:18.890 --> 01:10:21.057 continue to be able to defend itself . 01:10:21.057 --> 01:10:23.279 Um I'll turn to General Cavoli to speak 01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:22.390 about priorities , but I think tho 01:10:22.399 --> 01:10:24.600 those are the stakes as well . In 01:10:24.609 --> 01:10:27.189 addition to that , it's , uh , it's the 01:10:27.200 --> 01:10:30.490 monies that provide the demand signal 01:10:30.500 --> 01:10:33.259 that creates investment in the defense , 01:10:33.270 --> 01:10:35.492 industrial base . And that's one of our 01:10:35.492 --> 01:10:37.548 big challenges getting , getting our 01:10:37.548 --> 01:10:39.659 wartime production up . Congressman . 01:10:39.659 --> 01:10:42.520 Um um generally time expired chair and 01:10:42.529 --> 01:10:44.807 I recognize the gentleman from Indiana , 01:10:44.807 --> 01:10:47.500 Mr Banks . Doctor Waner , uh Dod 01:10:47.509 --> 01:10:49.065 admitted last month that it 01:10:49.065 --> 01:10:51.120 underestimated the cost of replacing 01:10:51.120 --> 01:10:53.287 American weapons we've sent to Ukraine 01:10:53.287 --> 01:10:55.398 leaving a $10 billion hole in our own 01:10:55.398 --> 01:10:58.270 stockpiles the day after announcing 01:10:58.279 --> 01:11:01.370 that it was overdrawn . The dod took 01:11:01.379 --> 01:11:04.250 $300 million that it found and 01:11:04.259 --> 01:11:07.160 immediately sent it to Ukraine . Why 01:11:07.169 --> 01:11:09.391 didn't that money go to filling the $10 01:11:09.391 --> 01:11:12.080 billion hole in our own stocks ? Uh 01:11:12.089 --> 01:11:14.649 Congressman , I , I'm , I apologize , I 01:11:14.660 --> 01:11:16.771 believe what we did was we figured we 01:11:16.771 --> 01:11:20.720 assessed that we had uh overvalued uh 01:11:20.729 --> 01:11:22.951 the value of the stocks that were given 01:11:22.951 --> 01:11:25.839 to Ukraine and that was what created . 01:11:25.850 --> 01:11:28.169 Uh We , we hadn't used as much PD A 01:11:28.180 --> 01:11:30.799 authority as uh we had originally 01:11:30.810 --> 01:11:33.750 estimated . So the , the , the 01:11:33.930 --> 01:11:36.041 reference you made to that particular 01:11:36.041 --> 01:11:38.640 package was uh that there had been an 01:11:38.649 --> 01:11:41.439 overvaluation of what the material and 01:11:41.450 --> 01:11:43.672 stocks were so it gave us more headroom 01:11:43.672 --> 01:11:45.939 to be able to provide capabilities for 01:11:45.990 --> 01:11:49.520 the crane and the the 01:11:49.649 --> 01:11:52.029 mysteriously finding the $300 million 01:11:52.040 --> 01:11:54.262 what you say , overestimating we unpack 01:11:54.262 --> 01:11:56.429 that more . What does that mean ? So , 01:11:56.430 --> 01:11:58.950 yes , sir . The procedures are uh for 01:11:58.959 --> 01:12:02.100 PD A is to you're supposed to value it 01:12:02.109 --> 01:12:04.165 at the value of the existing stock , 01:12:04.165 --> 01:12:05.990 not the replacement value . The 01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:08.410 replenishment value is absolutely key 01:12:08.419 --> 01:12:09.919 as , as you note , and the 01:12:09.919 --> 01:12:12.399 replenishment money in the supplemental 01:12:12.439 --> 01:12:15.569 is uh calculated at the cost of . 01:12:16.555 --> 01:12:18.722 But in terms of the value of the under 01:12:18.722 --> 01:12:20.833 the PD A authority , I know it's very 01:12:20.833 --> 01:12:22.944 technical um and , and mind-blowing , 01:12:22.944 --> 01:12:26.294 but uh the , the value of what we have 01:12:26.305 --> 01:12:28.584 authority from Congress to give Ukraine 01:12:28.595 --> 01:12:30.854 is supposed to be set at what the value 01:12:30.865 --> 01:12:33.087 of the stocks themselves was . Was this 01:12:33.087 --> 01:12:35.198 unusual ? I mean , 300 mind-blowing , 01:12:35.198 --> 01:12:37.839 $300 million seems like that would be 01:12:37.850 --> 01:12:40.770 very unusual . That was over a period 01:12:40.779 --> 01:12:44.160 of two years of P DS . So I can't give 01:12:44.169 --> 01:12:46.280 you the exact percentage of what that 01:12:46.280 --> 01:12:48.336 was of the value of the PD A . But I 01:12:48.336 --> 01:12:48.270 can follow up with you on that . This 01:12:48.279 --> 01:12:50.609 seems to me like funny math . So we 01:12:50.620 --> 01:12:53.709 find we overvalue $300 million . So we 01:12:53.720 --> 01:12:57.640 send more money to Ukraine . I I I'm 01:12:57.649 --> 01:12:59.816 trying to wrap my head around it and I 01:12:59.816 --> 01:13:02.038 can't , we sent more , not money . We , 01:13:02.038 --> 01:13:04.209 we sent uh more capability , more 01:13:04.220 --> 01:13:06.220 equipment . Why why the emphasis on 01:13:06.220 --> 01:13:08.810 sending more money to Ukraine over 01:13:08.819 --> 01:13:11.500 replenishing our own stockpiles . There 01:13:11.509 --> 01:13:13.660 is not th those go hand in glove in 01:13:13.669 --> 01:13:15.870 replenishing our stock files . We need 01:13:15.879 --> 01:13:17.879 the authority and the appropriation 01:13:17.910 --> 01:13:20.240 from Congress for the replenishment 01:13:20.250 --> 01:13:22.417 funds as well as the authority for the 01:13:22.417 --> 01:13:24.639 PD A draw . You'd be more interested in 01:13:24.639 --> 01:13:26.528 sending our stockpiles to Ukraine 01:13:26.528 --> 01:13:28.750 instead of replenishing them here . I , 01:13:28.750 --> 01:13:30.694 I , I'm , I'm not trying to make a 01:13:30.694 --> 01:13:32.972 point . I'm just really confused by it . 01:13:32.972 --> 01:13:34.861 We find an extra 300 million . We 01:13:34.861 --> 01:13:37.109 shovel it to Ukraine that again , that 01:13:37.120 --> 01:13:39.790 was the authority and it is matched by 01:13:39.799 --> 01:13:41.770 the replenishment money that that 01:13:41.779 --> 01:13:43.890 Congress has provided us and that we 01:13:43.899 --> 01:13:45.899 need in order to be able to do more 01:13:45.899 --> 01:13:48.010 under the supplemental . So after you 01:13:48.010 --> 01:13:50.640 found this $300 million as you said , 01:13:50.649 --> 01:13:53.310 mind blowing um is a great word for it . 01:13:54.080 --> 01:13:56.080 What , what did you do something to 01:13:56.080 --> 01:13:58.024 address that moving forward ? That 01:13:58.560 --> 01:14:00.727 we're not going to find another , that 01:14:00.727 --> 01:14:00.600 the Pentagon is not going to 01:14:00.609 --> 01:14:02.776 mysteriously find another $300 million 01:14:03.950 --> 01:14:06.061 dollars and extra money next year . I 01:14:06.061 --> 01:14:08.061 mean , how , how do we , how do you 01:14:08.061 --> 01:14:10.283 account for that moving forward ? Uh We 01:14:10.283 --> 01:14:12.283 do believe that that was a one time 01:14:12.283 --> 01:14:15.009 opportunity that we uh were able to uh 01:14:15.020 --> 01:14:17.649 advance because of the waiting for the 01:14:17.660 --> 01:14:19.716 decision on the supplemental . We do 01:14:19.716 --> 01:14:21.827 not expect that there will be similar 01:14:21.827 --> 01:14:23.938 uh findings and savings . So a lot of 01:14:23.938 --> 01:14:25.993 the , the public is hopefully paying 01:14:25.993 --> 01:14:27.993 attention to this hearing today and 01:14:27.993 --> 01:14:30.216 they , they hear about the Pentagon . I 01:14:30.216 --> 01:14:32.438 mean , the , the me , the media covered 01:14:32.438 --> 01:14:34.382 this as well . Headlines about 300 01:14:34.382 --> 01:14:36.271 million $300 million found at the 01:14:36.271 --> 01:14:36.100 Pentagon . I mean , it's , is that 01:14:36.109 --> 01:14:39.779 embarrassing to you ? I was 01:14:39.790 --> 01:14:41.901 relieved that we were able to provide 01:14:41.901 --> 01:14:44.123 capabilities to Ukraine , more money to 01:14:44.123 --> 01:14:46.640 do more for Ukraine . But we , the 01:14:46.649 --> 01:14:49.089 Pentagon is seriously finds $300 300 01:14:49.100 --> 01:14:51.267 million dollars in extra money that we 01:14:51.267 --> 01:14:53.267 can give to Ukraine . I mean , it's 01:14:53.267 --> 01:14:55.689 really , is that embarrassing ? I was 01:14:55.700 --> 01:14:58.129 relieved that we were able to find 01:14:58.140 --> 01:15:00.850 authority to be able to provide Ukraine 01:15:00.859 --> 01:15:03.580 with some artillery ammunition so that 01:15:03.589 --> 01:15:05.756 Ukrainian forces don't get overwhelmed 01:15:05.756 --> 01:15:07.756 on the front lines . Your colleague 01:15:07.756 --> 01:15:09.811 said last year that it would be , it 01:15:09.811 --> 01:15:12.220 would be bad to send $650 million to of 01:15:12.229 --> 01:15:14.569 us weapons to Taiwan without cash to 01:15:14.580 --> 01:15:17.089 replace them . Do you think it's 01:15:17.100 --> 01:15:19.459 dangerous to send Ukraine $4 billion in 01:15:19.470 --> 01:15:21.581 weapon weaponry without the funding ? 01:15:21.759 --> 01:15:24.680 We would not send capabilities to 01:15:24.689 --> 01:15:26.930 Ukraine ? Were it not for Congress 01:15:26.939 --> 01:15:28.470 passing appropriations for 01:15:28.479 --> 01:15:31.209 replenishment ? I I gotta say , I mean , 01:15:31.220 --> 01:15:33.560 II I lose trust in the in you and the 01:15:33.569 --> 01:15:36.129 Pentagon when incredibly uh 01:15:36.140 --> 01:15:40.140 mind-blowing $300 million is found and 01:15:40.600 --> 01:15:42.339 sent to Ukraine rather than 01:15:42.350 --> 01:15:44.406 replenishing our own stockpiles . Uh 01:15:44.406 --> 01:15:47.250 It's really bizarre . I , I yield back 01:15:47.319 --> 01:15:49.486 chair . I recognize you gentleman from 01:15:49.486 --> 01:15:51.430 Massachusetts , Mr Bolton for five 01:15:51.430 --> 01:15:53.430 minutes . Uh Doctor Wing , I have a 01:15:53.430 --> 01:15:55.597 question about disinformation . Uh You 01:15:55.597 --> 01:15:57.597 warn in your written statement that 01:15:57.597 --> 01:15:59.486 Russia's cyber and disinformation 01:15:59.486 --> 01:16:01.486 campaigns continue to threaten Euro 01:16:01.486 --> 01:16:03.708 Atlantic security . We know that Russia 01:16:03.708 --> 01:16:05.930 has interfered in us elections since at 01:16:05.930 --> 01:16:08.041 least 2016 and it's likely that Putin 01:16:08.041 --> 01:16:10.152 will ramp up disinformation campaigns 01:16:10.152 --> 01:16:11.819 as we move towards November's 01:16:11.819 --> 01:16:13.708 presidential election is Russia's 01:16:13.708 --> 01:16:15.541 disinformation machine trying to 01:16:15.541 --> 01:16:17.486 undermine us support for Ukraine . 01:16:18.629 --> 01:16:21.850 Russia's disinformation camp machine is 01:16:21.859 --> 01:16:23.930 working uh not just in the United 01:16:23.939 --> 01:16:25.717 States to undermine support but 01:16:25.717 --> 01:16:27.939 throughout Europe and indeed globally . 01:16:27.939 --> 01:16:30.419 And it is being magnified uh and picked 01:16:30.430 --> 01:16:33.620 up by uh disinformation operations in 01:16:33.629 --> 01:16:35.629 places like uh advanced by China as 01:16:35.629 --> 01:16:37.240 well . Is Russia's different 01:16:37.240 --> 01:16:39.073 disinformation machine trying to 01:16:39.073 --> 01:16:40.851 undermine us support for NATO . 01:16:41.729 --> 01:16:44.339 Russia's disinformation machine has 01:16:44.350 --> 01:16:47.200 been ramped up to undermine support for 01:16:47.209 --> 01:16:49.970 NATO to try to raise doubts in Europe 01:16:49.979 --> 01:16:51.923 and in the United States about the 01:16:51.923 --> 01:16:53.812 value of the alliance to American 01:16:53.812 --> 01:16:55.923 security . So would you say that when 01:16:55.923 --> 01:16:58.879 Republicans echo these sentiments , 01:16:58.890 --> 01:17:01.112 trying to undermine support for Ukraine 01:17:01.180 --> 01:17:03.439 trying to undermine support for NATO , 01:17:03.450 --> 01:17:05.561 they're s they're essentially echoing 01:17:05.561 --> 01:17:07.506 Russian propaganda . I think it is 01:17:07.506 --> 01:17:09.617 extremely important to make sure that 01:17:09.617 --> 01:17:11.783 the American people know when they are 01:17:11.783 --> 01:17:14.419 uh being uh influenced by Russian 01:17:14.430 --> 01:17:16.990 disinformation and exposing that 01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:19.580 disinformation is something that we 01:17:19.589 --> 01:17:21.850 work on in the inter agency , not , not 01:17:21.859 --> 01:17:23.970 just dod , but we work with state and 01:17:23.970 --> 01:17:25.637 with other agencies of the US 01:17:25.637 --> 01:17:27.692 government . So Americans understand 01:17:27.692 --> 01:17:29.859 very clearly where that disinformation 01:17:29.859 --> 01:17:32.081 is coming from . Well , the Kremlin has 01:17:32.081 --> 01:17:33.915 made it very clear in a recently 01:17:33.915 --> 01:17:36.026 released trove of documents that they 01:17:36.026 --> 01:17:35.600 know exactly what they're doing and 01:17:35.609 --> 01:17:37.959 trying to get Republicans to support 01:17:37.970 --> 01:17:40.290 their cause . I'm also concerned about 01:17:40.299 --> 01:17:42.188 China's increasing willingness to 01:17:42.188 --> 01:17:44.243 conduct disinformation and electoral 01:17:44.243 --> 01:17:46.466 interference campaigns against the US . 01:17:46.466 --> 01:17:48.132 General Cavoli . How is China 01:17:48.132 --> 01:17:50.077 coordinating with Russia to spread 01:17:50.077 --> 01:17:52.243 disinformation throughout the US ? And 01:17:52.243 --> 01:17:55.750 Europe ? Uh Congressman um China 01:17:55.759 --> 01:17:59.620 coordinates uh uh both in 01:17:59.629 --> 01:18:01.709 general terms that is uh sort of 01:18:01.720 --> 01:18:04.899 echoing and , and sort of spontaneously 01:18:05.120 --> 01:18:08.569 uh uh e echoing . Uh they echo each 01:18:08.580 --> 01:18:11.020 other's messages in that regard . And 01:18:11.029 --> 01:18:12.918 we also believe that there's some 01:18:12.918 --> 01:18:14.807 specific coordinations and closed 01:18:14.807 --> 01:18:16.918 session . I think we could , we could 01:18:16.918 --> 01:18:18.918 discuss the specifics of that . But 01:18:18.918 --> 01:18:20.807 your general point , I I think is 01:18:20.807 --> 01:18:22.569 absolutely correct . This is a 01:18:22.580 --> 01:18:24.834 concerted effort and it's not a single 01:18:24.845 --> 01:18:27.012 nation doing it . I mean , just I want 01:18:27.012 --> 01:18:29.123 to be clear . So everyone understands 01:18:29.123 --> 01:18:32.165 Russia has a clear policy of trying to 01:18:32.174 --> 01:18:34.396 get conservative elements in the United 01:18:34.396 --> 01:18:36.563 States to trumpet their propaganda and 01:18:36.563 --> 01:18:38.785 they're coordinating with China on this 01:18:38.785 --> 01:18:40.580 propaganda . So some members of 01:18:40.589 --> 01:18:42.700 Congress are becoming mouthpieces for 01:18:42.700 --> 01:18:44.520 Russian and essentially Chinese 01:18:44.529 --> 01:18:46.529 propaganda in the United States . I 01:18:46.529 --> 01:18:48.879 want to turn to a few lessons learned 01:18:48.890 --> 01:18:52.370 from uh Ukraine . Um The conflict is 01:18:52.379 --> 01:18:54.379 providing an important insight into 01:18:54.379 --> 01:18:57.129 ways that electronic warfare and drones 01:18:57.140 --> 01:18:59.029 are used on the battlefield . And 01:18:59.029 --> 01:19:01.196 obviously , we have to learn uh from , 01:19:01.196 --> 01:19:03.251 from these examples . I mean , we've 01:19:03.251 --> 01:19:06.009 seen $5000 drones take out $5 million 01:19:06.020 --> 01:19:09.020 tanks with ease . So , general cavoli , 01:19:09.029 --> 01:19:11.140 what are some of the lessons that dod 01:19:11.140 --> 01:19:13.196 is learning from the use and counter 01:19:13.196 --> 01:19:15.418 use of drones and electronic warfare in 01:19:15.418 --> 01:19:17.251 Ukraine ? And how are we quickly 01:19:17.251 --> 01:19:19.620 adopting those lessons for our own 01:19:19.629 --> 01:19:22.810 troops ? The , um , 01:19:23.600 --> 01:19:25.656 the Department of Defense and , uh , 01:19:25.656 --> 01:19:28.120 the services individually are very 01:19:28.129 --> 01:19:30.185 closely studying , you know , what's 01:19:30.185 --> 01:19:32.540 going on in Ukraine through a variety 01:19:32.549 --> 01:19:35.870 of , uh , of overt and not overt means . 01:19:35.879 --> 01:19:38.069 Uh , uh , congressmen . Um , we're , 01:19:38.080 --> 01:19:40.080 we're studying it very closely at a 01:19:40.080 --> 01:19:41.858 technical level as well as at a 01:19:41.858 --> 01:19:44.024 tactical level . Drones . Um , do seem 01:19:44.024 --> 01:19:47.750 to be a , a feature of this war 01:19:47.770 --> 01:19:51.600 that is unexpectedly significant . Um , 01:19:51.609 --> 01:19:53.776 I personally think that it's , we have 01:19:53.776 --> 01:19:55.831 to be a little bit careful overdrawn 01:19:55.831 --> 01:19:58.149 conclusions about it . Um , uh , many 01:19:58.160 --> 01:20:00.271 of the drones involved , uh , are not 01:20:00.271 --> 01:20:02.830 very destructive , um , uh , especially 01:20:02.839 --> 01:20:05.061 the small , commercially available ones 01:20:05.061 --> 01:20:07.450 are homemade types . Um , and , and we 01:20:07.459 --> 01:20:10.620 don't yet see them being able to drones , 01:20:10.629 --> 01:20:12.830 being able to , um , replace 01:20:12.839 --> 01:20:15.549 concentrated artillery fire for example . 01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:17.671 But it's a great supplement to what's 01:20:17.671 --> 01:20:19.616 going on with regard to electronic 01:20:19.616 --> 01:20:21.727 warfare . A lot of it . We're , we're 01:20:21.727 --> 01:20:23.893 familiar with , you know , we've , you 01:20:23.893 --> 01:20:26.060 know , waged electronic warfare in the 01:20:26.060 --> 01:20:25.565 past and we , and we know how to defend 01:20:25.576 --> 01:20:27.798 against it but the quantity of it and , 01:20:27.798 --> 01:20:29.687 and the ubiquity of it across the 01:20:29.687 --> 01:20:31.945 battlefield is , is , and we're working 01:20:31.956 --> 01:20:33.734 on a lot of Technical Solutions 01:20:33.734 --> 01:20:35.900 congressman . So general , if I go and 01:20:35.900 --> 01:20:37.734 visit , uh , some of your troops 01:20:37.734 --> 01:20:39.900 training in the field , are they gonna 01:20:39.900 --> 01:20:39.335 be training in an environment with a 01:20:39.346 --> 01:20:41.235 lot of drones and a lot of , uh , 01:20:41.235 --> 01:20:43.290 electronic warfare or are they gonna 01:20:43.290 --> 01:20:45.624 have a token drones flying around ? Yes , 01:20:45.624 --> 01:20:47.846 I think throughout the army right now , 01:20:47.846 --> 01:20:47.841 especially in the Marine Corps , the 01:20:47.852 --> 01:20:50.019 Ground forces , you would find a great 01:20:50.019 --> 01:20:52.381 deal of experimentation as well as 01:20:52.392 --> 01:20:55.492 rapid fielding of small drones . Um So 01:20:55.501 --> 01:20:58.622 uh ac ac across the force , um Both 01:20:58.751 --> 01:21:00.941 electronic warfare and drones are 01:21:00.952 --> 01:21:02.896 difficult to train with because of 01:21:02.896 --> 01:21:04.841 civil restrictions in airspace and 01:21:04.841 --> 01:21:06.508 things like that and spectrum 01:21:06.508 --> 01:21:08.452 management . But we managed to and 01:21:08.452 --> 01:21:08.361 we're very enthusiastic about it . 01:21:08.372 --> 01:21:10.428 Gentlemen's time expired chair and I 01:21:10.428 --> 01:21:12.650 recognize you from Florida . Mr Waltz . 01:21:14.939 --> 01:21:16.995 Thank you , Mr Chairman . I wanna uh 01:21:16.995 --> 01:21:18.529 talk today about 01:21:21.040 --> 01:21:23.649 NATO contributions to its own defense 01:21:23.660 --> 01:21:25.716 and uh you , you both stated in your 01:21:25.716 --> 01:21:28.169 opening statements kind of patting 01:21:28.180 --> 01:21:30.640 ourselves on the back that we're going 01:21:30.649 --> 01:21:33.819 from the pathetic number of 11 out of 01:21:33.830 --> 01:21:37.759 3031 member nations contributing uh 01:21:37.770 --> 01:21:40.600 its bare minimum of 2% to its national 01:21:40.609 --> 01:21:43.919 defense . That , wow , we're going to 01:21:43.930 --> 01:21:46.720 20 now . Uh And uh we're , we're , 01:21:46.729 --> 01:21:49.040 we're on the right path . Um I , I 01:21:49.049 --> 01:21:51.620 think frankly that is the tyranny of 01:21:51.629 --> 01:21:54.109 low expectations . Uh and it has 01:21:54.120 --> 01:21:55.842 infected our national security 01:21:55.842 --> 01:21:57.879 apparatus for many , many decades , 01:21:57.890 --> 01:22:00.919 including the many years that the , our , 01:22:00.930 --> 01:22:03.041 our European , look , we can , we can 01:22:03.041 --> 01:22:05.097 be friends and allies and have tough 01:22:05.097 --> 01:22:07.208 conversations . But if we don't start 01:22:07.208 --> 01:22:09.152 imposing real consequences , if we 01:22:09.152 --> 01:22:11.152 don't start using the leverage , we 01:22:11.152 --> 01:22:13.374 have , uh we literally cannot afford to 01:22:13.374 --> 01:22:16.419 subsidize European defense any longer . 01:22:16.459 --> 01:22:19.520 Um And what we often talk about , I 01:22:19.529 --> 01:22:21.585 mean , we're talking about the front 01:22:21.585 --> 01:22:23.362 line European nations , they're 01:22:23.362 --> 01:22:25.418 contributing the Baltics Poland . Uh 01:22:25.418 --> 01:22:27.819 but when we're talking about France , 01:22:27.850 --> 01:22:30.072 when we're talking about Germany , when 01:22:30.072 --> 01:22:32.239 we're talking about Spain , when we're 01:22:32.239 --> 01:22:35.560 talking about Italy , they're not . And 01:22:35.569 --> 01:22:37.970 all of those heads of state will be 01:22:37.979 --> 01:22:40.669 here in Washington for the Washington 01:22:40.680 --> 01:22:44.040 summit this summer . Doctor Wallander , 01:22:44.089 --> 01:22:47.100 how are we as a matter of policy going 01:22:47.109 --> 01:22:50.120 to go from 11 to 01:22:50.129 --> 01:22:53.359 31 contributing the minimum , 01:22:54.120 --> 01:22:57.479 the bare minimum , not half , not a 01:22:57.490 --> 01:23:00.779 third because we're continuously and 01:23:00.790 --> 01:23:03.109 you're asking us to go to the American 01:23:03.120 --> 01:23:05.729 people again and again . And we'll be 01:23:05.740 --> 01:23:07.796 having the same conversation at this 01:23:07.796 --> 01:23:10.018 posture hearing Mr Chairman next year , 01:23:10.229 --> 01:23:12.173 American people dig deeper in your 01:23:12.173 --> 01:23:15.240 pockets because European politicians 01:23:15.250 --> 01:23:17.729 can't and won't get their people to dig 01:23:17.740 --> 01:23:19.851 deeper in their pockets . A good deal 01:23:19.851 --> 01:23:21.796 for them . It's a bad deal for the 01:23:21.796 --> 01:23:24.049 American people . This is pathetic . 01:23:25.339 --> 01:23:28.750 Half , half is what we're 01:23:28.759 --> 01:23:31.470 congratulating ourselves for . Do you 01:23:31.479 --> 01:23:33.312 think that's a good deal for the 01:23:33.312 --> 01:23:35.950 American people ? Dr Wallander ? No , I 01:23:35.959 --> 01:23:38.126 fully agree with you . It should be 32 01:23:38.180 --> 01:23:41.209 and we press the administration's plan 01:23:41.220 --> 01:23:44.359 aside from asking to get him to do it . 01:23:44.540 --> 01:23:46.600 So the plan has already yielded 01:23:46.609 --> 01:23:49.790 improvement and I we can share with you 01:23:49.799 --> 01:23:52.160 the updated numbers . There are as of 01:23:52.169 --> 01:23:55.279 today , 18 NATO allies who meet 2% 01:23:55.290 --> 01:23:58.740 which is 14 too few . We expect um 01:23:58.750 --> 01:24:02.000 around several more by the time of the 01:24:02.009 --> 01:24:04.120 summit to announce publicly that they 01:24:04.120 --> 01:24:06.669 have met 2% and we expect several other 01:24:06.680 --> 01:24:09.509 allies that 2% or that they're on some 01:24:09.520 --> 01:24:12.200 kind of future that they have reached 01:24:12.209 --> 01:24:14.376 2% . We expect the number to be larger 01:24:14.376 --> 01:24:16.720 by the summit . We have um Chancellor 01:24:16.729 --> 01:24:19.979 Schultz in his famous speech in 2022 01:24:19.990 --> 01:24:22.089 just after the invasion promised to 01:24:22.100 --> 01:24:24.410 enshrine the 2% in law , the German 01:24:24.419 --> 01:24:27.069 Chancellor . He did not . In fact , 01:24:27.080 --> 01:24:29.479 they voted it down in their parliament . 01:24:29.580 --> 01:24:31.802 Italian Prime Minister Maloney promised 01:24:31.802 --> 01:24:33.969 in 2023 Italian defense spending would 01:24:33.969 --> 01:24:36.080 increase saying quote , freedom has a 01:24:36.080 --> 01:24:38.080 price . Italian defense spending is 01:24:38.080 --> 01:24:41.819 actually declining . Spanish 01:24:41.830 --> 01:24:44.660 Prime Minister promises by 2029 01:24:45.399 --> 01:24:48.299 2% . It'd have to double its defense 01:24:48.310 --> 01:24:50.421 budget . It's not , you know , who is 01:24:50.421 --> 01:24:52.254 doubling their defense budget in 01:24:52.254 --> 01:24:54.477 relation to the threat . Japan is their 01:24:54.477 --> 01:24:56.699 Prime Minister is here . They're living 01:24:56.699 --> 01:24:58.866 up to their shared burden commitment . 01:24:58.866 --> 01:25:00.643 The European nations are not Mr 01:25:00.643 --> 01:25:02.859 Chairman . It's not only the defense 01:25:02.870 --> 01:25:06.830 spending . What they are giving is 01:25:06.839 --> 01:25:08.839 in horrible condition . I'd like to 01:25:08.839 --> 01:25:11.061 enter into the record . Ukraine rejects 01:25:11.061 --> 01:25:13.700 German Leopard tanks due to their poor 01:25:13.709 --> 01:25:16.209 condition without objection . 01:25:18.490 --> 01:25:21.649 In this article , uh by Reuters , 01:25:22.950 --> 01:25:25.569 the tanks currently stranded in Poland 01:25:26.000 --> 01:25:29.089 constitute the second part of a large 01:25:29.100 --> 01:25:31.267 scale supply of German leopard tanks . 01:25:31.267 --> 01:25:33.322 By the way , these are the ones that 01:25:33.322 --> 01:25:35.211 they leverage to give us to uh to 01:25:35.211 --> 01:25:37.156 contribute . Ours , the tanks were 01:25:37.156 --> 01:25:39.378 retired from active service more than a 01:25:39.378 --> 01:25:42.029 decade ago . So we're our European 01:25:42.040 --> 01:25:44.720 allies are under giving . What they are 01:25:44.729 --> 01:25:47.000 giving is often late . What you see in 01:25:47.009 --> 01:25:49.065 the charts are often commitments and 01:25:49.065 --> 01:25:51.379 promises . We saw that in Afghanistan 01:25:51.390 --> 01:25:53.770 for years and then what they are giving 01:25:53.779 --> 01:25:57.540 late . Uh And , and too few is often 01:25:57.609 --> 01:26:01.279 in poor condition . Doctor 01:26:01.490 --> 01:26:04.399 Wander , how are we going to get to 32 ? 01:26:04.410 --> 01:26:07.700 Will you commit to get us to 32 within 01:26:07.709 --> 01:26:11.040 the next three years ? Is that possible ? 01:26:12.330 --> 01:26:14.219 We will commit to work with those 01:26:14.219 --> 01:26:15.886 allies who have not met their 01:26:15.886 --> 01:26:18.052 commitment , their required commitment 01:26:18.052 --> 01:26:20.219 that they agreed to at Vilnius and get 01:26:20.219 --> 01:26:22.799 to 32 1 by one gentleman's time expired , 01:26:22.810 --> 01:26:25.088 although he makes an outstanding point . 01:26:25.339 --> 01:26:27.529 Uh Gentle lady from New Jersey , Miss 01:26:27.540 --> 01:26:31.359 Cheryl is recognized . Thank 01:26:31.370 --> 01:26:35.020 you , Mr Chair . Um And it's really , I 01:26:35.029 --> 01:26:38.509 think as we've heard today , um 01:26:39.259 --> 01:26:41.259 necessary that we get a vote on the 01:26:41.259 --> 01:26:43.426 floor of the bipartisan supplemental . 01:26:43.430 --> 01:26:45.669 We have been waiting now for far too 01:26:45.680 --> 01:26:48.379 long and every day that we wait . Um 01:26:48.390 --> 01:26:50.609 Ukraine suffers and those fighting for 01:26:50.620 --> 01:26:54.089 Ukraine suffer . And it's estimated 01:26:54.100 --> 01:26:56.819 that since Putin's illegal invasion of 01:26:56.830 --> 01:26:58.997 Ukraine , our allies and partners have 01:26:58.997 --> 01:27:02.709 actually committed around $44.3 billion 01:27:02.750 --> 01:27:04.583 to direct security assistance to 01:27:04.583 --> 01:27:06.750 Ukraine . In fact , as a percentage of 01:27:06.750 --> 01:27:09.209 GDP , the United States only ranks at 01:27:09.220 --> 01:27:12.970 16 among all of the countries in NATO . 01:27:13.200 --> 01:27:15.259 Um So our NATO allies have also made 01:27:15.270 --> 01:27:17.326 significant plans and commitments to 01:27:17.326 --> 01:27:19.214 improve the alliance's collective 01:27:19.214 --> 01:27:21.381 defense and deterrence through defense 01:27:21.381 --> 01:27:23.890 spending , improved capabilities and 01:27:23.899 --> 01:27:27.580 nested strategies . So we see many 01:27:27.589 --> 01:27:29.779 are in fact doing their part for the 01:27:29.790 --> 01:27:31.568 collective security of NATO and 01:27:31.568 --> 01:27:34.029 ensuring Ukraine maintains their right 01:27:34.040 --> 01:27:36.390 of self determination . But Ukraine is 01:27:36.399 --> 01:27:38.621 running low on ammunition for essential 01:27:38.621 --> 01:27:41.069 artillery , air defense systems and all 01:27:41.080 --> 01:27:43.191 while Russia is receiving shells from 01:27:43.191 --> 01:27:46.830 North Korea and Iran . So the 01:27:46.839 --> 01:27:49.160 speaker has got to bring this vote to 01:27:49.169 --> 01:27:51.600 the floor time is of the essence , has 01:27:51.609 --> 01:27:54.479 been of the essence and we must pass 01:27:54.490 --> 01:27:56.601 the supplemental . It is time for him 01:27:56.601 --> 01:27:59.200 to show true leadership despite his own 01:27:59.209 --> 01:28:02.229 political concerns and to really stop 01:28:02.240 --> 01:28:04.330 playing politics with this and start 01:28:04.339 --> 01:28:07.250 ensuring that Ukraine can effectively 01:28:07.259 --> 01:28:10.109 fight because our allies and partners 01:28:10.120 --> 01:28:12.176 have stepped up in the absence of us 01:28:12.176 --> 01:28:14.120 support . But the United States is 01:28:14.120 --> 01:28:17.180 failing as a leader of the free world 01:28:17.189 --> 01:28:19.189 and a vanguard of de democracies 01:28:19.200 --> 01:28:21.970 worldwide . And our adversaries around 01:28:21.979 --> 01:28:24.740 the world are taking note . So Doctor 01:28:24.750 --> 01:28:26.472 Wallander , can you share your 01:28:26.472 --> 01:28:28.694 assessment of what the inaction of this 01:28:28.694 --> 01:28:31.729 legislative body will mean ? Not only 01:28:31.740 --> 01:28:33.907 for the survival of Ukraine , but also 01:28:33.907 --> 01:28:36.129 the dangerous precedent that this would 01:28:36.129 --> 01:28:38.351 set for the status of the United States 01:28:38.351 --> 01:28:40.684 as a leader for democracy to our allies , 01:28:40.684 --> 01:28:42.870 partners , potential partners , and 01:28:42.879 --> 01:28:45.740 importantly to our adversaries . Uh 01:28:45.750 --> 01:28:48.250 Thank you , Congressman . We are , we 01:28:48.259 --> 01:28:51.569 are very , we are viewed uh with 01:28:51.660 --> 01:28:54.149 and greatly positively by Europeans for 01:28:54.160 --> 01:28:56.271 our leadership in the Ukraine defense 01:28:56.271 --> 01:28:58.438 contact group . Uh But unfortunately , 01:28:58.438 --> 01:29:00.493 the fact that we have been unable to 01:29:00.493 --> 01:29:02.438 provide capabilities to Ukraine uh 01:29:02.438 --> 01:29:04.660 since December when the previous 01:29:04.669 --> 01:29:08.220 supplemental funds uh fell out um were 01:29:08.229 --> 01:29:11.465 used up um has uh created a 01:29:11.476 --> 01:29:13.895 challenge uh in our leadership of that 01:29:13.905 --> 01:29:15.996 group . Fortunately , Europe has 01:29:16.005 --> 01:29:18.846 stepped up in the four months since we 01:29:18.855 --> 01:29:21.077 have been able , been unable to provide 01:29:21.077 --> 01:29:22.855 capabilities and have announced 01:29:22.855 --> 01:29:24.744 billions of dollars of additional 01:29:24.744 --> 01:29:26.744 security assistance . Uh That's not 01:29:26.744 --> 01:29:29.077 enough as General Cavoli has made clear , 01:29:29.077 --> 01:29:31.188 but we have worked with Europeans and 01:29:31.188 --> 01:29:33.244 they have stop gapped us , however , 01:29:33.244 --> 01:29:34.855 they've stopped GP US in the 01:29:34.855 --> 01:29:36.799 anticipation that we will get that 01:29:36.799 --> 01:29:38.688 supplemental and we will get that 01:29:38.688 --> 01:29:40.688 capability for all the reasons that 01:29:40.688 --> 01:29:42.799 General Cavoli pointed out , they are 01:29:42.799 --> 01:29:42.512 unable to provide , especially the 01:29:42.521 --> 01:29:44.743 ammunition , the artillery , ammunition 01:29:44.743 --> 01:29:46.854 and the air defense interceptors that 01:29:46.854 --> 01:29:48.854 Ukraine requires . So we need to be 01:29:48.854 --> 01:29:51.021 able to do our part because we haven't 01:29:51.021 --> 01:29:53.532 been doing our part in this collective 01:29:53.541 --> 01:29:55.597 support of European security through 01:29:55.597 --> 01:29:59.569 supporting Ukraine . Thank you 01:29:59.580 --> 01:30:02.509 and General Kavali , can you share your 01:30:02.520 --> 01:30:04.464 assessment of Ukraine's ability to 01:30:04.464 --> 01:30:06.464 defend their territory and airspace 01:30:06.464 --> 01:30:08.450 without this vital us security 01:30:08.459 --> 01:30:12.129 assistance ? Uh Sure congresswoman , um 01:30:12.379 --> 01:30:15.169 their ability to defend their terrain 01:30:15.180 --> 01:30:17.200 that they currently hold and their 01:30:17.209 --> 01:30:20.640 airspace would fade rapidly , will fade 01:30:20.649 --> 01:30:23.790 rapidly without the , um , without the 01:30:23.799 --> 01:30:25.799 supplemental , without continued us 01:30:25.799 --> 01:30:28.669 support . And um , it will continue to 01:30:28.680 --> 01:30:31.310 fade until such time as somebody else 01:30:31.319 --> 01:30:34.759 is able to provide those munitions to 01:30:34.770 --> 01:30:36.826 the Ukrainians . As Doctor Wallander 01:30:36.826 --> 01:30:39.600 just pointed out that production level 01:30:39.609 --> 01:30:41.665 is not in sight right now . We think 01:30:41.665 --> 01:30:44.319 it's at least months away . And um , 01:30:44.330 --> 01:30:46.720 that is why this is such an important 01:30:46.729 --> 01:30:49.109 time right now . Um That's why this is 01:30:49.120 --> 01:30:51.176 such an important time . Thank you . 01:30:51.176 --> 01:30:53.287 And , and I have to say personally to 01:30:53.287 --> 01:30:55.589 see members of the Ukrainian military 01:30:55.600 --> 01:30:57.711 in my district seeking medical help , 01:30:57.711 --> 01:30:59.711 who have lost their legs , who have 01:30:59.711 --> 01:31:01.878 lost their eyesight , um who have been 01:31:01.878 --> 01:31:04.100 on the battlefield for hours and lost a 01:31:04.100 --> 01:31:06.267 leg because they simply didn't have an 01:31:06.267 --> 01:31:08.489 armored vehicle to come pick them up is 01:31:08.489 --> 01:31:10.544 devastating . And to think that as a 01:31:10.544 --> 01:31:12.711 foreign adversary to the United States 01:31:12.711 --> 01:31:14.878 of America attacks a democracy that we 01:31:14.878 --> 01:31:17.044 might stand in the wings and not fully 01:31:17.044 --> 01:31:20.279 support . This is offensive , offensive 01:31:20.290 --> 01:31:23.520 to this nation's um traditional support 01:31:23.529 --> 01:31:25.696 for democracy around the world . Thank 01:31:25.696 --> 01:31:28.520 you . Y back G Lady Yields back chair , 01:31:28.529 --> 01:31:30.696 not recognized G Lady from Michigan ms 01:31:30.696 --> 01:31:32.890 mclean . Thank you , Mr Chairman . And 01:31:32.899 --> 01:31:35.121 um I would agree with my colleague that 01:31:35.121 --> 01:31:37.343 we need to stop playing politics and um 01:31:37.343 --> 01:31:39.770 I would agree with you , Doctor 01:31:39.779 --> 01:31:41.890 Wallander , but maybe not in the same 01:31:41.890 --> 01:31:43.890 perspective as you say , we haven't 01:31:43.890 --> 01:31:45.835 been doing our part . I , I take a 01:31:45.835 --> 01:31:48.057 little bit of offense to that . I wanna 01:31:48.057 --> 01:31:51.009 talk about this article . Um US urges 01:31:51.020 --> 01:31:53.879 Ukraine to stop attacking Russian oil 01:31:53.890 --> 01:31:56.399 refineries . The report says in this 01:31:56.410 --> 01:31:58.521 piece , the US government sources are 01:31:58.521 --> 01:32:00.410 said to be concerned with Ukraine 01:32:00.410 --> 01:32:03.259 targeting of Russian oil production 01:32:03.270 --> 01:32:05.580 facilities . Listen to this because it 01:32:05.589 --> 01:32:09.189 could drive up gas prices . I quote 01:32:09.200 --> 01:32:11.144 ahead of a knife edge presidential 01:32:11.144 --> 01:32:13.310 election where prices at the gas pump 01:32:13.319 --> 01:32:16.640 are bound to be a contentious topic . 01:32:16.890 --> 01:32:18.946 This report seems to show that while 01:32:18.946 --> 01:32:21.270 the White House has incessantly 01:32:21.279 --> 01:32:23.299 demanded Congress pass additional 01:32:23.310 --> 01:32:25.879 Ukrainian funding , they are tying the 01:32:25.890 --> 01:32:29.149 hands of the Ukrainians for political 01:32:29.160 --> 01:32:31.660 purposes and I agree we need to stop 01:32:31.669 --> 01:32:33.669 playing politics . If the president 01:32:33.669 --> 01:32:36.020 truly cared about defeating Russia , he 01:32:36.029 --> 01:32:38.890 would be acting as a leader and not as 01:32:38.899 --> 01:32:41.430 a political hack worried about his next 01:32:41.439 --> 01:32:43.870 election . Mr Chairman , this president 01:32:43.879 --> 01:32:46.029 has shown time and time again that 01:32:46.040 --> 01:32:48.529 politics are more important than our 01:32:48.540 --> 01:32:50.870 own national security . He is now 01:32:50.879 --> 01:32:53.390 giving Russia the green light to 01:32:53.399 --> 01:32:57.055 continue to destroy Ukraine six months 01:32:57.064 --> 01:32:59.334 ago . This president said October 10th 01:32:59.345 --> 01:33:02.404 in his October 10th speech , he said we 01:33:02.415 --> 01:33:05.245 stand with Israel and we will make sure 01:33:05.254 --> 01:33:08.325 Israel has what it needs to take care 01:33:08.334 --> 01:33:11.725 of its citizens and defend itself . Now , 01:33:11.734 --> 01:33:13.678 the president has been threatening 01:33:13.678 --> 01:33:16.734 Israel if they don't stop defending 01:33:16.745 --> 01:33:18.801 themselves . On Iran . The president 01:33:18.801 --> 01:33:20.912 has chosen to side with their Iranian 01:33:20.912 --> 01:33:22.967 regime over all of our allies in the 01:33:22.967 --> 01:33:25.714 region region . This decision has made 01:33:26.209 --> 01:33:29.069 the Middle East less safe but American 01:33:29.080 --> 01:33:31.191 service members at risk and given the 01:33:31.191 --> 01:33:33.810 regime room to provide deadly drones 01:33:33.870 --> 01:33:36.779 and munitions to Russia for their war 01:33:36.790 --> 01:33:39.290 in Ukraine . Again , the same war . 01:33:39.299 --> 01:33:42.549 This president is demanding Congress 01:33:42.560 --> 01:33:46.160 provide more American tax dollars to . 01:33:46.189 --> 01:33:48.078 Right . I take it defense that we 01:33:48.078 --> 01:33:50.133 haven't done our part , our southern 01:33:50.133 --> 01:33:52.300 border . The president chooses to play 01:33:52.300 --> 01:33:54.467 politics with our nation's security by 01:33:54.467 --> 01:33:56.356 opening the floodgates to illegal 01:33:56.356 --> 01:33:58.356 immigrants simply because President 01:33:58.356 --> 01:34:00.467 Trump had the border secured . I want 01:34:00.467 --> 01:34:02.633 to remind my colleagues what President 01:34:02.633 --> 01:34:04.745 Obama's Secretary of Defense , Robert 01:34:04.745 --> 01:34:06.467 Gates said about the then Vice 01:34:06.467 --> 01:34:09.194 President Biden in , in 2014 . I quote , 01:34:09.205 --> 01:34:12.060 I think he's been wrong on nearly every 01:34:12.069 --> 01:34:14.140 major foreign policy and national 01:34:14.149 --> 01:34:16.180 security issue over the past four 01:34:16.189 --> 01:34:18.970 decades . A well-respected Secretary of 01:34:18.979 --> 01:34:20.979 Defense , a man who is held in high 01:34:20.979 --> 01:34:23.201 regards on members on both sides of the 01:34:23.201 --> 01:34:26.060 aisle has said our president is always 01:34:26.069 --> 01:34:28.069 wrong when it comes to our national 01:34:28.069 --> 01:34:30.236 security . Mr Chairman . I think it is 01:34:30.236 --> 01:34:31.919 imperative let this committee 01:34:31.930 --> 01:34:34.229 investigate whether President Biden is 01:34:34.240 --> 01:34:36.589 playing politics with the lives of 01:34:36.600 --> 01:34:39.520 Ukrainians and our NATO allies and the 01:34:39.529 --> 01:34:42.459 rest of this uh the rest of the Western 01:34:42.470 --> 01:34:45.299 world . I ask unanimous consent to 01:34:45.310 --> 01:34:47.199 include the article in the record 01:34:47.199 --> 01:34:49.310 without objection . And with that , I 01:34:49.310 --> 01:34:51.254 yield the balance of my time to Mr 01:34:51.254 --> 01:34:53.790 Wallace . Doctor Waner . We have 01:34:53.799 --> 01:34:57.240 statistics here that um that our allies 01:34:57.250 --> 01:34:59.361 have contributed 44 billion in direct 01:34:59.361 --> 01:35:01.399 security assistance to Ukraine and 01:35:01.410 --> 01:35:03.359 we've talked about the accounting 01:35:03.370 --> 01:35:05.589 differences in the Pentagon that have 01:35:05.600 --> 01:35:08.520 yielded 6 billion , 300 billion . 01:35:08.669 --> 01:35:10.959 What's the common accounting standard ? 01:35:11.560 --> 01:35:13.671 Uh Does NATO have a common accounting 01:35:13.671 --> 01:35:15.560 standard for how it's valuing its 01:35:15.560 --> 01:35:18.750 assistance ? NATO does not have a NATO 01:35:18.759 --> 01:35:21.350 doesn't organize or , or advance that 01:35:21.359 --> 01:35:23.026 security assistance . So it's 01:35:23.026 --> 01:35:25.248 conceivable that it could be overvalued 01:35:25.248 --> 01:35:28.379 as our equipment , over values provided 01:35:28.390 --> 01:35:30.612 by the countries providing the value of 01:35:30.612 --> 01:35:32.790 the equipment so they could be using . 01:35:32.839 --> 01:35:35.229 I mean , we've got what 30 different 01:35:35.240 --> 01:35:37.073 countries they could be using 30 01:35:37.073 --> 01:35:40.069 different standards . I cannot speak to 01:35:40.080 --> 01:35:42.302 their national standards . Uh These are 01:35:42.302 --> 01:35:44.810 democracies but you just , you stated 01:35:44.819 --> 01:35:46.986 on the record in front of the American 01:35:46.986 --> 01:35:49.319 people , they're doing their fair share . 01:35:49.319 --> 01:35:49.209 We have figures saying they've 01:35:49.220 --> 01:35:51.799 contributed 44 billion , but you don't 01:35:51.810 --> 01:35:53.921 know how they're coming up to that 44 01:35:53.921 --> 01:35:56.143 billion . Uh Those are the figures that 01:35:56.143 --> 01:35:58.254 they report to their parliaments . So 01:35:58.254 --> 01:36:00.199 they're grading their own homework 01:36:01.899 --> 01:36:04.129 fair . Yes , those are our allies and 01:36:04.140 --> 01:36:06.362 when they report numbers , we take them 01:36:06.362 --> 01:36:08.696 serious , we just take it at face value . 01:36:08.696 --> 01:36:10.899 We take them seriously , Mr Chairman , 01:36:10.910 --> 01:36:13.021 I think we should look at legislation 01:36:13.021 --> 01:36:15.890 to understand what our allies are 01:36:15.899 --> 01:36:18.066 actually contributing is a replacement 01:36:18.066 --> 01:36:20.121 value . Is it new value ? Is it some 01:36:20.121 --> 01:36:22.121 value that they valued ? Uh because 01:36:22.121 --> 01:36:24.343 they think it's valuable , we , we just 01:36:24.343 --> 01:36:26.455 maybe they want to appear to be doing 01:36:26.455 --> 01:36:29.049 more than they are . Uh I , I think 01:36:29.060 --> 01:36:31.171 this is a serious issue and I find it 01:36:31.171 --> 01:36:33.338 concerning Doctor Wallinger . We don't 01:36:33.338 --> 01:36:35.560 have a common , a standard for a number 01:36:35.560 --> 01:36:35.299 that we're putting out to the American 01:36:35.310 --> 01:36:37.477 people . J times expired chair . And I 01:36:37.477 --> 01:36:39.588 recognize General Lee from Texas , MS 01:36:39.588 --> 01:36:41.421 Escobar . Thank you so much , Mr 01:36:41.421 --> 01:36:43.366 Chairman and I'd like to thank our 01:36:43.366 --> 01:36:45.254 witnesses . Uh Thank you for your 01:36:45.254 --> 01:36:47.032 service to our country . We are 01:36:47.032 --> 01:36:48.921 definitely in living through very 01:36:48.921 --> 01:36:51.270 precarious times and it is 01:36:51.279 --> 01:36:54.959 disheartening uh to see politics uh 01:36:54.970 --> 01:36:57.879 coming from this Dais and this 01:36:57.890 --> 01:37:00.129 committee at a time when we really need 01:37:00.140 --> 01:37:03.560 to be united around our common goals 01:37:03.569 --> 01:37:06.299 and united for our common vision for 01:37:06.310 --> 01:37:09.759 the globe . One of the , the areas of 01:37:09.770 --> 01:37:12.839 great concern that I keep hearing about 01:37:12.850 --> 01:37:16.029 um on cable TV . And coming from 01:37:16.040 --> 01:37:19.589 members of Congress is and , and , and 01:37:19.600 --> 01:37:21.822 I , I heard it today from the DAIS from 01:37:21.822 --> 01:37:23.878 one of our colleagues that we are in 01:37:23.878 --> 01:37:27.290 effect sending bags of cash to Ukraine 01:37:27.299 --> 01:37:29.466 that , that it is Congress . That's uh 01:37:29.466 --> 01:37:32.629 that , that is being asked to approve 01:37:32.640 --> 01:37:35.200 money for Ukraine . When in fact , uh 01:37:35.220 --> 01:37:37.839 you know , the truth is , you know , we 01:37:37.850 --> 01:37:39.939 are approving funding to replenish 01:37:39.950 --> 01:37:42.172 stocks and munitions . I , I think it's 01:37:42.172 --> 01:37:44.061 really important for the American 01:37:44.061 --> 01:37:46.228 people to understand what supplemental 01:37:46.228 --> 01:37:48.339 funding goes to specifically uh uh uh 01:37:48.339 --> 01:37:50.779 you know , not specifically in 01:37:50.790 --> 01:37:52.901 enumerating everything that , that it 01:37:52.901 --> 01:37:55.500 is funding . But can you please explain 01:37:55.509 --> 01:37:57.729 to the American people what the 01:37:57.740 --> 01:38:00.080 supplemental funding request from the 01:38:00.089 --> 01:38:03.509 president would fund for Ukraine doctor . 01:38:03.890 --> 01:38:05.946 Thank you , Congresswoman . So there 01:38:05.946 --> 01:38:09.419 are 33 buckets to understand . First is 01:38:09.430 --> 01:38:11.899 presidential drawdown authority and the 01:38:11.910 --> 01:38:14.720 associated replenishment author um 01:38:14.729 --> 01:38:18.589 appropriation uh to replenish us stocks . 01:38:18.600 --> 01:38:21.339 The authority allows for pulling uh 01:38:21.390 --> 01:38:24.700 capabilities from us stocks based on an 01:38:24.709 --> 01:38:27.410 assessment that readiness requirements 01:38:27.419 --> 01:38:30.140 are maintained and then the contracts 01:38:30.149 --> 01:38:32.549 are made to replenish the stocks for 01:38:32.560 --> 01:38:34.830 the American military forces to be able 01:38:34.839 --> 01:38:38.709 therefore to uh move on to new , new 01:38:38.720 --> 01:38:40.879 production , uh new capabilities . In 01:38:40.890 --> 01:38:43.390 many cases , more modern , new advanced 01:38:43.399 --> 01:38:47.160 uh um versions of existing stocks . The 01:38:47.169 --> 01:38:49.391 second is you and who is building ? I'm 01:38:49.391 --> 01:38:51.613 sorry , I don't mean to interrupt , but 01:38:51.613 --> 01:38:53.669 I think this is an important point . 01:38:53.669 --> 01:38:55.725 Who is building the replenishment of 01:38:55.725 --> 01:38:57.780 the stocks , who is the , that money 01:38:57.780 --> 01:39:00.002 goes to American defense contractors to 01:39:00.002 --> 01:39:02.113 supply the American military with the 01:39:02.113 --> 01:39:04.336 most up to date capable uh requirements 01:39:04.336 --> 01:39:06.280 that the combatant commanders have 01:39:06.280 --> 01:39:08.391 identified and need in their stocks . 01:39:08.391 --> 01:39:10.447 So that funding is being invested in 01:39:10.447 --> 01:39:12.391 American jobs . American companies 01:39:12.391 --> 01:39:14.613 across 40 States of the United States . 01:39:14.613 --> 01:39:17.009 Thank you . And then the second bucket . 01:39:17.020 --> 01:39:18.798 The Ukraine security Assistance 01:39:18.798 --> 01:39:21.689 initiative is direct procurement from 01:39:21.700 --> 01:39:23.490 defense American defense , uh 01:39:23.500 --> 01:39:26.529 industrial uh companies uh in those 40 01:39:26.540 --> 01:39:28.899 states . So going for paying for 01:39:28.910 --> 01:39:31.350 contracts and capabilities that then on 01:39:31.359 --> 01:39:33.529 a longer term are delivered to Ukraine 01:39:33.540 --> 01:39:35.830 for building that future force for 01:39:35.839 --> 01:39:37.895 defense and deterrence . But again , 01:39:37.895 --> 01:39:40.172 that is not money that goes to Ukraine , 01:39:40.172 --> 01:39:42.172 that is money that goes to American 01:39:42.172 --> 01:39:44.395 defense contractors to American workers 01:39:44.395 --> 01:39:46.728 in those , uh , in those companies . Uh , 01:39:46.728 --> 01:39:48.850 and all that money stays in Ameri in 01:39:48.859 --> 01:39:50.915 the American economy . And the third 01:39:50.915 --> 01:39:54.799 bucket goes to support , uh Ucom , its 01:39:54.810 --> 01:39:56.640 operations , its presence , its 01:39:56.649 --> 01:39:59.620 activities in support of , uh Ukraine . 01:39:59.629 --> 01:40:01.851 So they learn how to use that equipment 01:40:01.851 --> 01:40:04.018 so they're trained so they know how to 01:40:04.018 --> 01:40:06.185 repair it so that , uh , they are able 01:40:06.185 --> 01:40:08.351 to field it . Um , and also to support 01:40:08.351 --> 01:40:10.351 all the work that General Cavalli's 01:40:10.351 --> 01:40:12.629 team is doing uh in support of Ukraine . 01:40:12.629 --> 01:40:14.685 Thank you so much . I think it is so 01:40:14.685 --> 01:40:16.518 important every time a member of 01:40:16.518 --> 01:40:18.629 Congress talks about sending money to 01:40:18.629 --> 01:40:21.136 Ukraine and uses that term . I think 01:40:21.145 --> 01:40:23.295 it's so important that we remind the 01:40:23.306 --> 01:40:25.405 American public where that money is 01:40:25.416 --> 01:40:27.815 actually going to the jobs it creates 01:40:27.826 --> 01:40:30.104 in our own country , in our own states . 01:40:30.104 --> 01:40:33.352 Um Otherwise this is part of I'm 01:40:33.361 --> 01:40:35.861 concerned it's part of the Russian 01:40:35.872 --> 01:40:38.671 disinformation effort to mislead the 01:40:38.682 --> 01:40:41.832 American public about that funding very , 01:40:41.841 --> 01:40:43.730 very quickly . The house has been 01:40:43.730 --> 01:40:46.711 frozen for months on this request . Uh 01:40:46.722 --> 01:40:49.111 It's up to one man , the speaker of the 01:40:49.122 --> 01:40:51.392 house or uh colleagues on the 01:40:51.401 --> 01:40:53.179 Republican side who will sign a 01:40:53.179 --> 01:40:56.669 discharge petition . Uh Only 30 seconds 01:40:56.680 --> 01:40:59.509 left . I if we were to approve that 01:40:59.520 --> 01:41:01.850 supplemental request in the next week 01:41:01.859 --> 01:41:05.379 or two , how quickly would help get to 01:41:05.390 --> 01:41:09.020 Ukraine with ? Uh we would be able 01:41:09.029 --> 01:41:11.540 to , with Ucom support and Transcom 01:41:11.549 --> 01:41:13.979 support begin immediately within , 01:41:13.990 --> 01:41:17.419 within a week or two to provide the 01:41:17.430 --> 01:41:19.541 ammunition , the artillery ammunition 01:41:19.569 --> 01:41:21.899 uh to provide interceptors uh to 01:41:21.910 --> 01:41:24.132 Ukraine . And I think it's important to 01:41:24.132 --> 01:41:27.220 underscore today . The Ukrainian 01:41:27.229 --> 01:41:30.520 defense is being outshot 5 to 1 that 01:41:30.529 --> 01:41:33.299 will change pretty quickly if the house 01:41:33.310 --> 01:41:35.088 remains frozen . Thank you , Mr 01:41:35.088 --> 01:41:37.220 Chairman . I yield back . General 01:41:37.330 --> 01:41:39.497 yields back chair and I recognizes the 01:41:39.497 --> 01:41:41.608 gentleman from Florida , Mr Mills for 01:41:41.608 --> 01:41:43.640 five minutes . Mm . Thank you , Mr 01:41:43.649 --> 01:41:46.049 Chairman . You know , my colleagues 01:41:46.060 --> 01:41:48.282 have said a lot and I just want to kind 01:41:48.282 --> 01:41:50.282 of make sure that we're referencing 01:41:50.282 --> 01:41:52.449 those comments . You know , our few of 01:41:52.449 --> 01:41:52.439 them said that all we need is a little 01:41:52.450 --> 01:41:54.919 democracy . Well , I wish that uh there 01:41:54.930 --> 01:41:58.600 was significantly important a vote by 01:41:58.609 --> 01:42:00.720 the Senate and Chuck Schumer to bring 01:42:00.720 --> 01:42:02.942 hr to secure the Border Act when we got 01:42:02.942 --> 01:42:05.109 hundreds of thousands of Americans who 01:42:05.109 --> 01:42:07.053 are dying , fentaNYL , overdoses , 01:42:07.053 --> 01:42:09.109 child and human trafficking . Not to 01:42:09.109 --> 01:42:11.276 mention 100 and 78 plus countries that 01:42:11.276 --> 01:42:13.331 are crossing our border and over 400 01:42:13.331 --> 01:42:15.331 plus known individuals on terrorist 01:42:15.331 --> 01:42:17.387 watch lists that are coming across . 01:42:17.387 --> 01:42:19.220 But , oh , wait , that's not the 01:42:19.220 --> 01:42:18.839 priority . Let's secure Ukraine's 01:42:18.850 --> 01:42:20.739 borders . Um You know , it's just 01:42:20.739 --> 01:42:23.180 politics as usual . Um I , I want to 01:42:23.189 --> 01:42:25.189 also go back to something one of my 01:42:25.189 --> 01:42:27.356 colleagues had talked about , which is 01:42:27.359 --> 01:42:29.720 in 1947 NATO was created for the ideas 01:42:29.729 --> 01:42:31.951 of stopping Soviet Union expansionism . 01:42:31.979 --> 01:42:33.979 And the idea was that we were so in 01:42:33.979 --> 01:42:36.146 fear of the idea that the Soviet Union 01:42:36.146 --> 01:42:38.368 would continue its encroachment and yet 01:42:38.368 --> 01:42:40.535 the countries that are most at risk of 01:42:40.535 --> 01:42:42.701 this Germany , France , Italy , others 01:42:42.701 --> 01:42:44.923 for how many years wouldn't even pay 2% 01:42:44.923 --> 01:42:47.410 of their actual dues . And America is 01:42:47.419 --> 01:42:49.890 left holding the bag at 3.47% . In 01:42:49.899 --> 01:42:51.919 addition to the 114 plus billion 01:42:51.930 --> 01:42:54.041 dollars , it's already been allocated 01:42:54.041 --> 01:42:56.208 with Ukraine who on multiple occasions 01:42:56.208 --> 01:42:58.629 hasn't presented a military strategic 01:42:58.640 --> 01:43:00.859 plan that would show how they win this 01:43:00.870 --> 01:43:03.180 war or even what is the definition of 01:43:03.189 --> 01:43:05.939 what winning the war means . And so I 01:43:05.950 --> 01:43:08.228 have a big difficult problem with this . 01:43:08.228 --> 01:43:10.228 Not to mention the fact that the EU 01:43:10.228 --> 01:43:12.394 member states under David o'sullivan , 01:43:12.394 --> 01:43:15.220 the Eu sanctions chief has admitted 01:43:15.569 --> 01:43:17.458 that they have frozen assets from 01:43:17.458 --> 01:43:20.589 Russia exceeding $206 billion usa 01:43:20.600 --> 01:43:22.930 €190 billion that they now are 01:43:22.939 --> 01:43:26.140 netting profits on at $3.5 billion that 01:43:26.149 --> 01:43:27.982 should be utilized if they're so 01:43:27.982 --> 01:43:30.620 concerned with a lack of ammunition . 01:43:30.950 --> 01:43:32.970 You know , this , this premise that 01:43:32.979 --> 01:43:35.890 we're gonna go ahead and spend the $60 01:43:35.899 --> 01:43:38.010 billion in America and that's somehow 01:43:38.010 --> 01:43:40.066 going to be great for the industrial 01:43:40.066 --> 01:43:42.066 base . They're still looking at the 01:43:42.066 --> 01:43:44.232 ideas that you're adding money in that 01:43:44.232 --> 01:43:44.040 we don't have which increase our 01:43:44.049 --> 01:43:46.216 inflation . And one of the things that 01:43:46.216 --> 01:43:48.382 we just talked about , Doctor Wander , 01:43:48.382 --> 01:43:50.716 you said that Russia's inflation is 13% . 01:43:50.716 --> 01:43:54.009 Is that correct ? That is , yes . Can 01:43:54.020 --> 01:43:56.850 you tell me what America's is no , I 01:43:56.859 --> 01:43:59.589 cannot . Would you want to take an like 01:43:59.600 --> 01:44:01.600 just a shot in the dark at what you 01:44:01.600 --> 01:44:03.822 think America's inflation that I prefer 01:44:03.822 --> 01:44:06.044 not to guess ? Yeah , try about 20 plus 01:44:06.044 --> 01:44:08.330 percent and try $34 trillion almost 18% 01:44:08.339 --> 01:44:10.506 plus 2% reduction in minimum wage . So 01:44:10.506 --> 01:44:12.617 we can go ahead and put those figures 01:44:12.617 --> 01:44:14.728 together , not to mention roughly 27% 01:44:14.728 --> 01:44:16.672 increase in fuel cost cost of good 01:44:16.672 --> 01:44:18.783 allowances . Yeah , inflation is that 01:44:18.783 --> 01:44:20.839 one of those things that we admit is 01:44:20.839 --> 01:44:23.172 bad for Russia and also bad for America . 01:44:23.172 --> 01:44:25.283 You also made a comment recently when 01:44:25.283 --> 01:44:24.569 you said that we have concerns on 01:44:24.580 --> 01:44:26.691 hitting civilian targets with the oil 01:44:26.691 --> 01:44:28.858 terminals . Was that the same concerns 01:44:28.858 --> 01:44:30.969 that we had in the 2003 Iraq war when 01:44:30.969 --> 01:44:33.024 we were bombing oil terminals and we 01:44:33.024 --> 01:44:36.850 were hitting areas there . That is the 01:44:36.859 --> 01:44:40.209 concern in our , in our discussions 01:44:40.220 --> 01:44:42.950 with Ukraine was that our concern when 01:44:42.959 --> 01:44:45.810 we were at war in Iraq . I do not know , 01:44:45.819 --> 01:44:48.041 sir , I was not in the US government at 01:44:48.041 --> 01:44:49.819 that time . I was because I was 01:44:49.819 --> 01:44:51.930 actually deployed to that war as well 01:44:51.930 --> 01:44:53.986 as for the additional seven years in 01:44:53.986 --> 01:44:53.759 Iraq , three years in Afghanistan , 01:44:53.770 --> 01:44:55.992 Kosovo , Pakistan , North Somalia blown 01:44:55.992 --> 01:44:59.609 up twice in 06 all to do what to play . 01:44:59.620 --> 01:45:02.100 Interventionism . It's played neocon 01:45:02.120 --> 01:45:04.287 neo lib ideas that we don't understand 01:45:04.287 --> 01:45:06.231 the evolution of warfare is beyond 01:45:06.231 --> 01:45:08.176 kinetics and now into the ideas of 01:45:08.176 --> 01:45:10.231 resource , economic supply chain and 01:45:10.231 --> 01:45:12.342 non kinetic influence operations that 01:45:12.342 --> 01:45:14.064 have been not only vastly more 01:45:14.064 --> 01:45:15.953 successful but also safer and not 01:45:15.953 --> 01:45:18.129 costly to the American people . You 01:45:18.140 --> 01:45:20.307 know , next year , at 34 plus trillion 01:45:20.307 --> 01:45:22.307 dollars , we're gonna spend more in 01:45:22.307 --> 01:45:24.810 interest payments than the entire 01:45:24.819 --> 01:45:26.597 budget for our national defense 01:45:26.597 --> 01:45:28.839 annually . We need to start thinking 01:45:28.850 --> 01:45:31.180 about three priorities for a change . 01:45:31.189 --> 01:45:35.180 America Americans and American interest . 01:45:35.910 --> 01:45:37.910 And if we're talking about building 01:45:37.910 --> 01:45:40.132 coalitions for allies , then we need to 01:45:40.132 --> 01:45:42.299 be putting the pressure that President 01:45:42.299 --> 01:45:44.521 Trump put on our NATO allies to say you 01:45:44.521 --> 01:45:46.466 need to be paying 2% of your GDP , 01:45:46.466 --> 01:45:48.466 which we agree now needs to be even 01:45:48.466 --> 01:45:50.577 more than that when you're looking at 01:45:50.577 --> 01:45:53.000 Russia's increase to 6% . But instead 01:45:53.009 --> 01:45:55.009 we're continuing to play politics . 01:45:55.009 --> 01:45:57.231 Let's bring this vote to the floor even 01:45:57.231 --> 01:45:59.287 though it's not a bill which has all 01:45:59.287 --> 01:46:01.065 the necessary things and hasn't 01:46:01.065 --> 01:46:02.842 addressed the corruption hasn't 01:46:02.842 --> 01:46:05.065 addressed the failure for 100% audit on 01:46:05.065 --> 01:46:07.287 Ukraine funding hasn't addressed . What 01:46:07.287 --> 01:46:10.200 does success look like for Ukraine ? 01:46:11.049 --> 01:46:13.560 And this idea that whatever happens in 01:46:13.569 --> 01:46:15.680 Ukraine is somehow going to happen in 01:46:15.680 --> 01:46:17.736 Taiwan . It's a false premise . It's 01:46:17.736 --> 01:46:19.680 the same idea as the George W Bush 01:46:19.680 --> 01:46:19.680 model of , we can fight him over there , 01:46:19.689 --> 01:46:21.745 we can fight him here . Well , guess 01:46:21.745 --> 01:46:23.856 what ? Our borders are open and we're 01:46:23.856 --> 01:46:25.689 allowing him to come in . Not to 01:46:25.689 --> 01:46:27.800 mention this great successful airlift 01:46:27.800 --> 01:46:29.467 operation of the 2021 botched 01:46:29.467 --> 01:46:31.689 withdrawal in Afghanistan that actually 01:46:31.689 --> 01:46:33.856 brought over 73% of the people on that 01:46:33.856 --> 01:46:35.911 aircraft that wasn't vetted , didn't 01:46:35.911 --> 01:46:38.040 have biometrics wasn't si vs . It's 01:46:38.049 --> 01:46:39.899 funny how we cherry pick what is 01:46:39.910 --> 01:46:42.021 beneficial , but we don't address the 01:46:42.021 --> 01:46:44.021 facts . I put America first and I'm 01:46:44.021 --> 01:46:46.021 gonna continue to put America first 01:46:46.021 --> 01:46:45.649 with that . I yield back . Gentleman 01:46:45.660 --> 01:46:47.882 yields back chair . And I recognize the 01:46:47.882 --> 01:46:49.604 gentle lady from Virginia , MS 01:46:49.604 --> 01:46:51.660 mcclelland . Thank you , Mr Chairman 01:46:51.660 --> 01:46:53.660 and thank you , Doctor Wilander and 01:46:53.660 --> 01:46:55.620 General Kavali for being here . Um 01:46:55.629 --> 01:46:58.020 Russia has sought to use irregular 01:46:58.029 --> 01:47:00.339 warfare and cyber weapons to bolster 01:47:00.350 --> 01:47:02.819 its aggressions in Ukraine and so 01:47:03.129 --> 01:47:05.629 division and undermine democracy among 01:47:05.640 --> 01:47:07.696 our European allies . And some would 01:47:07.696 --> 01:47:11.379 argue here , uh How is Ucom working to 01:47:11.390 --> 01:47:13.612 address this particular threat and what 01:47:13.612 --> 01:47:15.668 do you need from Congress to support 01:47:15.668 --> 01:47:18.310 those efforts ? Thank you . Uh 01:47:18.319 --> 01:47:21.950 Congresswoman , uh , Ucom has a very 01:47:21.959 --> 01:47:25.629 active , um , uh , strategic messaging 01:47:25.640 --> 01:47:29.609 apparatus . We have , um , teams that 01:47:29.620 --> 01:47:33.009 uh analyze news and um , 01:47:33.020 --> 01:47:36.479 spot disinformation and then we , 01:47:36.490 --> 01:47:40.470 um , get the truth to usually a 01:47:40.479 --> 01:47:43.350 country's uh public affairs apparatus 01:47:43.359 --> 01:47:45.526 and they promulgate the real story . A 01:47:45.526 --> 01:47:47.748 very simple example would be if we were 01:47:47.748 --> 01:47:51.229 having an exercise . And , um , and uh , 01:47:51.240 --> 01:47:54.310 somebody falsely posted a picture of , 01:47:54.319 --> 01:47:56.379 uh , of a bicycle accident and said 01:47:56.390 --> 01:47:58.870 that an American truck ran over that we 01:47:58.879 --> 01:48:00.768 spot that we get the truth to the 01:48:00.768 --> 01:48:02.768 country very quickly . They turn it 01:48:02.768 --> 01:48:04.823 around and put it out . Um , I think 01:48:04.823 --> 01:48:06.879 more to your point that we work very 01:48:06.879 --> 01:48:10.620 closely with nations um at both 01:48:10.629 --> 01:48:13.589 a , an overt and a secret level to help 01:48:13.600 --> 01:48:17.129 them analyze the in the information 01:48:17.140 --> 01:48:20.189 environment and then um to help them 01:48:20.200 --> 01:48:22.310 combat disinformation and 01:48:22.319 --> 01:48:24.799 misinformation . We do that uh country 01:48:24.810 --> 01:48:27.240 by country uh under the supervision of 01:48:27.250 --> 01:48:29.417 the chief of mission in that country , 01:48:29.417 --> 01:48:31.750 the US chief of mission in that country . 01:48:31.750 --> 01:48:33.917 And we also do that regionally under , 01:48:33.917 --> 01:48:36.083 under my authorities and supervision . 01:48:36.083 --> 01:48:38.250 It's , it's a well funded program . Um 01:48:38.250 --> 01:48:40.083 We could always do more . Um But 01:48:40.083 --> 01:48:42.306 nevertheless , I think it's well funded 01:48:42.306 --> 01:48:44.639 by the Congress right now and it's very , 01:48:44.639 --> 01:48:46.861 very effective . Uh Congressman . Thank 01:48:46.861 --> 01:48:48.806 you . Thank you . Um with Russia's 01:48:48.806 --> 01:48:51.028 illegal evasion of Ukraine , uh Finland 01:48:51.028 --> 01:48:53.459 and Sweden have now officially joined 01:48:53.470 --> 01:48:55.692 NATO and drastically increased both the 01:48:55.692 --> 01:48:57.192 fighting force and defense 01:48:57.192 --> 01:48:58.970 manufacturing capability of the 01:48:58.970 --> 01:49:00.970 alliance . How is the United States 01:49:00.970 --> 01:49:03.120 working to swiftly integrate our new 01:49:03.129 --> 01:49:06.000 allies into the alliance ? And uh how 01:49:06.009 --> 01:49:08.189 can we here in Congress better 01:49:08.200 --> 01:49:09.759 facilitate those efforts ? 01:49:12.049 --> 01:49:15.430 Uh Thank you . Uh First of all 01:49:15.439 --> 01:49:18.020 NATO is primarily responsible for , for 01:49:18.029 --> 01:49:20.220 that integration . NATO has already 01:49:20.229 --> 01:49:22.451 pulled both of those countries into our 01:49:22.451 --> 01:49:25.459 regional plans . And um we had been 01:49:25.470 --> 01:49:27.637 working with them for some months to , 01:49:27.637 --> 01:49:29.803 to , to prepare to do that . So that's 01:49:29.803 --> 01:49:32.137 going very quickly as you're well aware , 01:49:32.137 --> 01:49:34.192 Congressman , those uh both of those 01:49:34.192 --> 01:49:36.026 countries have very advanced and 01:49:36.026 --> 01:49:35.779 sophisticated militaries that have a 01:49:35.834 --> 01:49:39.134 long operational history with uh with 01:49:39.145 --> 01:49:41.024 the forces in NATO . So their 01:49:41.035 --> 01:49:43.202 interoperability is already al already 01:49:43.202 --> 01:49:45.765 sky high So it's very , very easy pull 01:49:45.814 --> 01:49:49.095 in that regard . The US proper US U COM 01:49:49.104 --> 01:49:51.384 has conducted exercises with them to 01:49:51.395 --> 01:49:53.562 make sure that our interoperability is 01:49:53.562 --> 01:49:56.375 high . Um We have worked with them to 01:49:56.384 --> 01:49:58.814 uh gain access to their airspace to 01:49:58.825 --> 01:50:01.459 conduct a uh uh intelligence , 01:50:01.470 --> 01:50:03.803 surveillance and reconnaissance flights . 01:50:03.803 --> 01:50:05.970 Um Those have proven very successful . 01:50:05.970 --> 01:50:07.859 It's , it's a real estate that we 01:50:07.859 --> 01:50:09.748 didn't have too much access to uh 01:50:09.748 --> 01:50:12.081 previously . And uh in addition to that , 01:50:12.081 --> 01:50:14.137 we've made agreements with both both 01:50:14.137 --> 01:50:16.529 countries uh for the uh prepositioning 01:50:16.540 --> 01:50:18.850 of material in those countries . So , 01:50:18.859 --> 01:50:20.803 so not only are we helping NATO to 01:50:20.803 --> 01:50:23.520 integrate them , but they are helping 01:50:23.529 --> 01:50:26.569 us to integrate into uh into places 01:50:26.580 --> 01:50:28.580 that we were previously unable to ? 01:50:28.580 --> 01:50:31.439 Thank you , ma'am . Thank you . I would 01:50:31.450 --> 01:50:34.689 just our , our , our part of this at 01:50:34.700 --> 01:50:37.509 the OD is to support the policies uh 01:50:37.520 --> 01:50:41.479 required to uh enable general cavoli to 01:50:41.490 --> 01:50:43.790 advance all the exercises uh the 01:50:43.799 --> 01:50:45.589 capabilities , the diplomatic 01:50:45.600 --> 01:50:47.656 relationships . And I would just say 01:50:47.656 --> 01:50:49.685 that Finland and Sweden will at the 01:50:49.694 --> 01:50:51.750 heads of state and government at the 01:50:51.750 --> 01:50:53.527 summit be fully part of all the 01:50:53.527 --> 01:50:55.527 decisions on nato's futures and the 01:50:55.527 --> 01:50:57.750 obligations and responsibilities of all 01:50:57.750 --> 01:50:59.916 the allies going forward . Thank you . 01:50:59.916 --> 01:50:59.145 And I don't know if you'll fully have 01:50:59.154 --> 01:51:01.487 time to answer the next one . So if not , 01:51:01.487 --> 01:51:03.543 maybe if you could submit it for the 01:51:03.543 --> 01:51:05.765 record . But with Russia pulling out of 01:51:05.765 --> 01:51:07.710 the new start treaty , which is an 01:51:07.710 --> 01:51:09.543 incredible blow to the system of 01:51:09.543 --> 01:51:11.654 nuclear arms nonproliferation uh that 01:51:11.654 --> 01:51:13.710 has been a guiding light of the post 01:51:13.710 --> 01:51:15.876 Cold War era . What does that decision 01:51:15.876 --> 01:51:17.765 mean for prospects for future nuc 01:51:17.765 --> 01:51:19.932 nuclear nonproliferation efforts ? And 01:51:19.932 --> 01:51:22.043 how concerned should we be about what 01:51:22.043 --> 01:51:24.100 this signals concerning Russia's 01:51:24.109 --> 01:51:27.109 strategic weapons goals ? I I will 01:51:27.120 --> 01:51:29.839 submit a full answer . Uh The top lines 01:51:29.850 --> 01:51:32.020 would be , we are very concerned about 01:51:32.029 --> 01:51:33.529 the signal it sends to the 01:51:33.529 --> 01:51:35.529 international community that Russia 01:51:35.529 --> 01:51:37.473 does not respect or live up to its 01:51:37.473 --> 01:51:39.585 international obligations in the case 01:51:39.585 --> 01:51:41.696 of nuclear arms treaties , as well as 01:51:41.696 --> 01:51:43.473 the invasion and , and other uh 01:51:43.473 --> 01:51:45.529 instances . So , but I will submit a 01:51:45.529 --> 01:51:47.696 full answer . And as part of that , if 01:51:47.696 --> 01:51:49.918 you could discuss the risk of returning 01:51:49.918 --> 01:51:52.140 to a nuclear arms race , I'd appreciate 01:51:52.140 --> 01:51:54.029 it . And with that , I yield back 01:51:54.029 --> 01:51:53.750 generally's times expired chair and I 01:51:53.759 --> 01:51:55.648 recognize General from Texas , Mr 01:51:55.648 --> 01:51:57.703 Fallon . Thank you , Mr Chairman . I 01:51:57.703 --> 01:51:59.481 appreciate it . Um in 2014 NATO 01:51:59.481 --> 01:52:01.648 countries , as we all know , agreed to 01:52:01.648 --> 01:52:04.259 invest 2% of their GDP on defense . And 01:52:04.270 --> 01:52:06.326 that was uh a commitment that wasn't 01:52:06.326 --> 01:52:08.569 unfortunately followed through with uh 01:52:08.580 --> 01:52:10.747 expediency . There were a lot of words 01:52:10.747 --> 01:52:12.913 and , and not actions and particularly 01:52:12.913 --> 01:52:14.969 I feel what , what's egregious and I 01:52:14.969 --> 01:52:17.191 think it was touched on by Mr Walt were 01:52:17.191 --> 01:52:17.080 some of the larger European nation 01:52:17.089 --> 01:52:19.950 states . Uh Spain Canada , Italy , 01:52:19.970 --> 01:52:22.299 France hovered around 2% . But uh you 01:52:22.310 --> 01:52:24.199 know , the the greatest , I think 01:52:24.199 --> 01:52:26.254 egregious violator was Germany , the 01:52:26.254 --> 01:52:28.477 fourth largest economy in the world and 01:52:28.477 --> 01:52:28.259 they weren't stepping up . So I have a 01:52:28.270 --> 01:52:30.859 two part question for General General 01:52:30.870 --> 01:52:33.479 Cavoli had , uh let's work . Let's live 01:52:33.490 --> 01:52:35.709 in a different world . Uh in 2014 . 01:52:35.839 --> 01:52:38.299 That , that commitment was met uh with 01:52:38.310 --> 01:52:41.069 expediency and our larger 01:52:42.319 --> 01:52:45.620 nation , uh nation states in NATO 01:52:45.629 --> 01:52:47.520 followed through the ones I just 01:52:47.529 --> 01:52:51.330 mentioned with some timely decisiveness . 01:52:51.529 --> 01:52:54.740 Could the Ukrainian uh 01:52:54.750 --> 01:52:58.310 war have been deterred altogether ? Do 01:52:58.319 --> 01:53:02.299 you think if that happened ? J I , 01:53:02.310 --> 01:53:04.477 I , I'm , I'm so sorry , Congressman , 01:53:04.477 --> 01:53:07.069 are you asking had nations especially 01:53:07.080 --> 01:53:10.330 the larger allies been spending um at 01:53:10.339 --> 01:53:12.561 or above the goal ? Would , if they had 01:53:12.561 --> 01:53:14.783 made their commitment with expediency , 01:53:14.783 --> 01:53:16.950 say in 2015 and 16 and said , you know 01:53:16.950 --> 01:53:18.895 what , particularly after Crimea , 01:53:18.895 --> 01:53:18.850 we're gonna spend 2.5 , whatever 01:53:18.859 --> 01:53:21.026 percent and they followed through with 01:53:21.026 --> 01:53:22.859 it . And Germany said we're in a 01:53:22.859 --> 01:53:24.915 different world now . Uh We're gonna 01:53:24.915 --> 01:53:26.970 take the lead and France followed as 01:53:26.970 --> 01:53:29.137 well , Italy , Spain , Canada . Do you 01:53:29.137 --> 01:53:31.192 think that Vladimir Putin would have 01:53:31.192 --> 01:53:33.526 invaded anyway ? In 2022 ? Y yes , I do . 01:53:33.526 --> 01:53:35.850 Iii I do not think we were extending uh 01:53:35.859 --> 01:53:39.000 mutual or collective defense guarantees 01:53:39.009 --> 01:53:41.231 to Ukraine . Do you think it would have 01:53:41.231 --> 01:53:43.565 given him some increase to pause ? Sure . 01:53:43.565 --> 01:53:45.676 It would have . OK . So it would have 01:53:45.676 --> 01:53:47.676 been a good thing . But the lack of 01:53:47.676 --> 01:53:49.898 action certainly encouraged it . If you 01:53:49.898 --> 01:53:51.731 say , if you say you're gonna do 01:53:51.731 --> 01:53:53.898 something and then you don't do it . I 01:53:53.898 --> 01:53:53.649 think it's worse if you hadn't said 01:53:53.660 --> 01:53:55.771 anything else , you would have better 01:53:55.771 --> 01:53:57.993 off not saying anything at all . And in 01:53:57.993 --> 01:54:00.049 NATO , in 2014 , a lot of our allies 01:54:00.049 --> 01:54:02.049 said they were gonna do something , 01:54:02.049 --> 01:54:04.104 they didn't do it . And I think that 01:54:04.104 --> 01:54:05.716 was a breeding ground for an 01:54:05.716 --> 01:54:07.938 authoritarian land grab quite frankly . 01:54:07.938 --> 01:54:11.339 Um , one other question , general , I 01:54:11.350 --> 01:54:14.060 notice that when you look at the closer 01:54:14.290 --> 01:54:16.623 you get to the threat , which is Russia , 01:54:16.623 --> 01:54:18.790 the more the defense spending tends to 01:54:18.790 --> 01:54:20.734 go up . Uh In fact , I don't think 01:54:20.734 --> 01:54:22.957 there's a country , a NATO country that 01:54:22.957 --> 01:54:22.939 borders Ukraine or Russia that has not 01:54:22.950 --> 01:54:24.783 met that 2% commitment . And the 01:54:24.783 --> 01:54:26.839 further you go away , it seems , you 01:54:26.839 --> 01:54:28.894 know , the , the , the less spending 01:54:28.894 --> 01:54:32.229 you get having said that , do you think 01:54:32.240 --> 01:54:35.200 it makes sense for us to move U United 01:54:35.209 --> 01:54:37.431 States troops closer to the threat ? So 01:54:37.431 --> 01:54:39.487 my question is , should we , in your 01:54:39.487 --> 01:54:41.487 opinion , make the European eastern 01:54:41.487 --> 01:54:44.100 European bases permanent ? Uh fir first 01:54:44.109 --> 01:54:46.859 of all , Congressman , um the United 01:54:46.870 --> 01:54:50.589 States has and is moving forces closer 01:54:50.600 --> 01:54:53.350 to the eastern flank . Um As you're 01:54:53.359 --> 01:54:55.581 aware , we've got an agreement signed a 01:54:55.581 --> 01:54:57.748 couple of years ago with Poland before 01:54:57.748 --> 01:54:59.970 this conflict began in Ukraine , signed 01:54:59.970 --> 01:55:02.026 with Poland to uh Poland provides uh 01:55:02.026 --> 01:55:04.850 significant infrastructure and we will 01:55:04.859 --> 01:55:07.359 uh rotate forces through there . Um The 01:55:07.370 --> 01:55:10.060 additional forces that we surged to uh 01:55:10.069 --> 01:55:12.399 Europe during the immediate aftermath 01:55:12.410 --> 01:55:14.521 of Russia's invasion . Those have all 01:55:14.521 --> 01:55:16.354 gone , gone to the Eastern flank 01:55:16.354 --> 01:55:18.354 principally uh the Baltic countries 01:55:18.354 --> 01:55:21.080 again , Poland and um and southeastern 01:55:21.089 --> 01:55:23.560 Europe in , in Romania and Bulgaria . 01:55:23.569 --> 01:55:25.625 So , so there is an effort , there's 01:55:25.625 --> 01:55:27.939 also an effort on the part of nations 01:55:27.950 --> 01:55:30.419 in the alliance to go farther east . So 01:55:30.430 --> 01:55:32.319 in the immediate aftermath of the 01:55:32.319 --> 01:55:34.779 invasion , NATO um before I became the , 01:55:34.790 --> 01:55:36.919 the , the allied command , operations 01:55:36.930 --> 01:55:38.740 commander took the decision to 01:55:38.750 --> 01:55:40.583 establish new battle groups on a 01:55:40.583 --> 01:55:42.560 standing basis . They rotate but 01:55:42.569 --> 01:55:44.236 they're permanently there for 01:55:44.236 --> 01:55:46.458 additional ones . So there's a total of 01:55:46.458 --> 01:55:48.680 eight , but to design that they all can 01:55:48.680 --> 01:55:50.902 go up to brigade size at time of need . 01:55:50.902 --> 01:55:53.125 And a number of nations have uh elected 01:55:53.125 --> 01:55:55.347 to go up to brigade size uh ear earlier 01:55:55.347 --> 01:55:57.450 that so there is a definite shift uh 01:55:57.459 --> 01:55:59.681 eastward , I in the alliance , sir . Uh 01:55:59.681 --> 01:56:02.799 Thank you . Uh Doctor Walter , the , 01:56:03.939 --> 01:56:06.106 unfortunately , I would you agree that 01:56:06.106 --> 01:56:08.328 the Western sanctions on Russia haven't 01:56:08.328 --> 01:56:11.009 worked economic sanctions , uh Western 01:56:11.020 --> 01:56:13.220 sanctions have imposed costs and , but 01:56:13.229 --> 01:56:15.919 they have not stopped Putin . I think 01:56:15.930 --> 01:56:17.874 they've , unfortunately , I mean , 01:56:17.874 --> 01:56:19.986 unfortunately , they've been a dismal 01:56:19.986 --> 01:56:19.459 failure . I would love to have had them 01:56:19.470 --> 01:56:21.759 work . But when you've got nations like 01:56:21.770 --> 01:56:24.850 the communist Chinese , you got Iran , 01:56:24.859 --> 01:56:27.359 North Korea uh in , in , in some ways , 01:56:27.370 --> 01:56:30.419 even India dealing with Russia , they , 01:56:30.430 --> 01:56:33.810 they , they circumvented us . So we 01:56:33.819 --> 01:56:36.009 talked a lot about Western European 01:56:36.020 --> 01:56:38.242 reliance . Uh some call it an addiction 01:56:38.242 --> 01:56:40.839 to Russian energy . You would be in 01:56:40.850 --> 01:56:43.589 favor of the United States doing all we 01:56:43.600 --> 01:56:45.656 can to Wean , their dependence , our 01:56:45.656 --> 01:56:47.990 Western European allies in particular 01:56:48.000 --> 01:56:50.810 off of Russian energy . Yes , they've 01:56:50.819 --> 01:56:53.580 taken steps and they can do more and we 01:56:53.589 --> 01:56:55.645 fully support that and actively work 01:56:55.645 --> 01:56:57.700 with them because we have a lot of , 01:56:57.700 --> 01:56:59.978 you know , natural gas in this country . 01:56:59.978 --> 01:57:02.145 For instance , the number one customer 01:57:02.145 --> 01:57:05.939 for LNG is uh that we export is Europe . 01:57:06.410 --> 01:57:09.100 So I was perplexed , confused and 01:57:09.109 --> 01:57:11.020 otherwise befuddled when this 01:57:11.029 --> 01:57:13.196 administration and President Biden put 01:57:13.196 --> 01:57:15.529 a whatever you wanna call it suspension , 01:57:15.529 --> 01:57:17.830 stopping , pause on our LNG exports . 01:57:17.919 --> 01:57:21.060 Did you advise him to do that ? That is 01:57:21.069 --> 01:57:23.291 not my area of responsibility . Ok . So 01:57:23.291 --> 01:57:25.513 would you agree that that was not uh uh 01:57:25.513 --> 01:57:28.419 wise considering that it was really an 01:57:28.430 --> 01:57:31.439 essentially a gift to Putin ? I cannot 01:57:31.450 --> 01:57:33.672 speak to that policy . It's outside the 01:57:33.672 --> 01:57:35.506 scope of dod , but you're a very 01:57:35.506 --> 01:57:37.680 intelligent uh young woman . I think 01:57:37.689 --> 01:57:41.069 that uh and you , you have ad R in 01:57:41.080 --> 01:57:42.858 front of your name . I do not . 01:57:43.049 --> 01:57:45.216 Gentleman's time is expired and she is 01:57:45.216 --> 01:57:47.327 very intelligent . I agree with you . 01:57:47.327 --> 01:57:49.438 Gentlemen from Nevada is recognized , 01:57:49.438 --> 01:57:51.382 Mr Horsford . Thank you , Chairman 01:57:51.382 --> 01:57:53.605 Rogers and to the ranking member uh for 01:57:53.605 --> 01:57:55.827 holding this important hearing . It has 01:57:55.827 --> 01:57:58.049 been over two years since we saw Russia 01:57:58.049 --> 01:58:00.160 launch a brutal invasion of Ukraine . 01:58:00.160 --> 01:58:02.382 But for many Ukrainians , this conflict 01:58:02.382 --> 01:58:04.216 began a decade ago with Russia's 01:58:04.220 --> 01:58:07.140 continued occupation of Crimea . It has 01:58:07.149 --> 01:58:09.205 also been six months since President 01:58:09.205 --> 01:58:11.149 Biden released a national security 01:58:11.149 --> 01:58:13.205 supplemental that would reinvigorate 01:58:13.205 --> 01:58:15.260 the United states defense industrial 01:58:15.260 --> 01:58:17.371 base while also providing much needed 01:58:17.371 --> 01:58:19.350 support for our closest allies and 01:58:19.359 --> 01:58:21.290 partners . President Biden's 01:58:21.299 --> 01:58:23.270 supplemental request would provide 01:58:23.279 --> 01:58:24.946 billions in direct industrial 01:58:24.946 --> 01:58:26.779 investments in the United States 01:58:26.779 --> 01:58:29.870 including over 4 million in my home 01:58:29.879 --> 01:58:32.270 state of Nevada alone . However , 01:58:32.279 --> 01:58:34.390 instead of putting this critical bill 01:58:34.390 --> 01:58:36.501 to a vote , uh the house majority has 01:58:36.501 --> 01:58:38.990 stalled an even worse repeated Russian 01:58:39.000 --> 01:58:42.290 propaganda . Uh on the house floor , it 01:58:42.299 --> 01:58:44.466 was reported this week that US central 01:58:44.466 --> 01:58:46.870 Command has sent a stash of Iranian 01:58:46.879 --> 01:58:49.379 munitions it captured from Houthi 01:58:49.560 --> 01:58:52.250 militants to Ukraine . Uh General 01:58:52.259 --> 01:58:54.315 Kavali . I understand that desperate 01:58:54.319 --> 01:58:56.560 times call for desperate measures . Can 01:58:56.569 --> 01:58:58.939 you provide examples on how Ukrainians 01:58:58.950 --> 01:59:01.061 are continuing to stay in the fight ? 01:59:01.061 --> 01:59:03.228 Even as support from the United States 01:59:03.228 --> 01:59:05.549 has lagged and can you expand on how 01:59:05.560 --> 01:59:07.890 crucial it is that Congress passed the 01:59:07.899 --> 01:59:10.520 national security supplemental ? Yeah , 01:59:10.529 --> 01:59:13.410 a absolutely congressman . Um the first 01:59:13.419 --> 01:59:17.089 and most uh uh clearest and , and , and 01:59:17.100 --> 01:59:20.479 um um present example 01:59:20.950 --> 01:59:24.560 is the self rationing of artillery 01:59:24.569 --> 01:59:26.736 rounds that the Ukrainians are are are 01:59:26.736 --> 01:59:29.279 using right now . So they know that 01:59:29.290 --> 01:59:32.450 they have a limited supply until um we 01:59:32.459 --> 01:59:34.930 are able to begin supporting them again . 01:59:35.060 --> 01:59:37.116 And in the meantime , they have self 01:59:37.116 --> 01:59:39.338 restricted the amount of artillery they 01:59:39.338 --> 01:59:41.560 use . This has significant consequences 01:59:41.569 --> 01:59:43.402 on the battlefield . Of course , 01:59:43.402 --> 01:59:45.569 they're already at a 5 to 1 deficit in 01:59:45.569 --> 01:59:47.513 artillery fires as compared to the 01:59:47.513 --> 01:59:49.870 Russians . And uh that will obviously 01:59:49.879 --> 01:59:52.620 increase uh Dr Dr dramatically in the 01:59:52.629 --> 01:59:54.796 absence of a of a supplemental , sir . 01:59:54.796 --> 01:59:56.899 Thank you , Assistant Secretary 01:59:56.910 --> 01:59:58.959 Wallander , several of our European 01:59:58.970 --> 02:00:01.950 allies continue to rely on Chinese made 02:00:01.959 --> 02:00:04.910 logistics networks , ports and five G 02:00:04.919 --> 02:00:07.189 capabilities . I'm concerned that this 02:00:07.200 --> 02:00:09.256 leaves these countries vulnerable to 02:00:09.256 --> 02:00:11.879 economic pressure coming from the PR C . 02:00:12.149 --> 02:00:14.149 How are you assessing the threat of 02:00:14.149 --> 02:00:15.927 over , over reliance on Chinese 02:00:15.927 --> 02:00:18.330 infrastructure in Europe , especially 02:00:18.339 --> 02:00:20.459 in the telecommunication space ? And 02:00:20.470 --> 02:00:22.470 how can we work with our allies and 02:00:22.470 --> 02:00:24.637 partners to give them an alternative ? 02:00:25.180 --> 02:00:26.958 Thank you , Congressman . Yes , 02:00:26.958 --> 02:00:30.160 absolutely . Um Reliance on Chinese 02:00:30.169 --> 02:00:33.450 provided technology or capabilities and 02:00:33.459 --> 02:00:35.540 logistics , as you note creates uh a 02:00:35.549 --> 02:00:38.419 vulnerability among NATO allies 02:00:38.430 --> 02:00:40.819 European countries . Uh It undermines 02:00:40.830 --> 02:00:42.919 their resilience . It , it creates 02:00:42.930 --> 02:00:46.080 challenges for them uh to be able to 02:00:46.089 --> 02:00:48.680 advance uh strong policies . Uh 02:00:48.689 --> 02:00:51.350 countries like Lithuania who have taken 02:00:51.359 --> 02:00:55.220 a very stand on on China have 02:00:55.229 --> 02:00:57.740 fortunately already divested themselves 02:00:57.750 --> 02:00:59.972 of those dependencies . And we use that 02:00:59.972 --> 02:01:02.220 as an example when we talk to European 02:01:02.229 --> 02:01:05.140 countries to show how uh reducing or 02:01:05.149 --> 02:01:06.927 even eliminating those kinds of 02:01:06.927 --> 02:01:08.927 dependencies actually is a security 02:01:08.927 --> 02:01:11.149 step . Often it's framed as an economic 02:01:11.149 --> 02:01:13.371 benefit . Um And what we work with them 02:01:13.371 --> 02:01:15.593 is to understand the security risk that 02:01:15.593 --> 02:01:17.839 they uh undertake when they uh follow 02:01:17.850 --> 02:01:20.470 that path . Congressman . It might be 02:01:20.479 --> 02:01:22.970 uh it might be useful to note also that 02:01:22.979 --> 02:01:26.509 us U COM designs exercises or aspects 02:01:26.520 --> 02:01:29.290 of its exercise program specifically to 02:01:29.299 --> 02:01:32.299 test infrastructure and to flush out 02:01:32.310 --> 02:01:34.799 problems with its ownership . Um uh 02:01:34.810 --> 02:01:36.810 that gives us the opportunity to do 02:01:36.810 --> 02:01:38.977 everything from work on the networks , 02:01:38.977 --> 02:01:40.643 you know , the , the , the uh 02:01:40.643 --> 02:01:42.310 communications , networks and 02:01:42.310 --> 02:01:44.088 infrastructure , as well as the 02:01:44.088 --> 02:01:46.199 physical infrastructure and the , and 02:01:46.199 --> 02:01:48.421 the manpower of a port , for instance . 02:01:48.421 --> 02:01:50.588 And then we work very closely with the 02:01:50.588 --> 02:01:50.470 Department of State and the office of 02:01:50.479 --> 02:01:52.812 the Secretary of Defense , specifically , 02:01:52.812 --> 02:01:54.757 Doctor Wallander to uh address our 02:01:54.757 --> 02:01:56.868 concerns with countries . It's , it's 02:01:56.868 --> 02:01:59.035 actually a very successful program , I 02:01:59.035 --> 02:01:58.979 think so far . But , but it is a big 02:01:58.990 --> 02:02:01.101 task that we're trying to try to push 02:02:01.101 --> 02:02:03.379 back on . Great . And in my final time , 02:02:03.379 --> 02:02:05.379 general , what are the lessons that 02:02:05.379 --> 02:02:07.629 ucom has learned about the use of these 02:02:07.649 --> 02:02:10.149 autonomous capabilities in large scale 02:02:10.160 --> 02:02:12.959 combat operations ? And has it changed 02:02:12.970 --> 02:02:14.859 the way we think about the use of 02:02:14.859 --> 02:02:17.020 unmanned capability ? Specifically ? 02:02:17.390 --> 02:02:19.390 Not completely , not , not yet . It 02:02:19.399 --> 02:02:21.121 hasn't changed everything . Uh 02:02:21.121 --> 02:02:23.177 Congressman , we're watching it very 02:02:23.177 --> 02:02:24.955 closely because there's clearly 02:02:24.955 --> 02:02:27.177 something there . But I would note that 02:02:27.177 --> 02:02:28.899 the principal decisions on the 02:02:28.899 --> 02:02:31.649 battlefield for both sides are made by 02:02:31.660 --> 02:02:34.479 legacy system . Uh it , its tanks and 02:02:34.490 --> 02:02:36.509 its artillery , all the drones and 02:02:36.520 --> 02:02:38.576 stuff have not have not yet produced 02:02:38.576 --> 02:02:41.140 that the one area , two areas where I'd 02:02:41.149 --> 02:02:43.450 say are the most promising long range 02:02:43.459 --> 02:02:46.270 penetration from the air to substitute 02:02:46.279 --> 02:02:48.879 for ballistic missiles . And what the 02:02:48.890 --> 02:02:51.001 Ukrainians have done in the Black Sea 02:02:51.001 --> 02:02:53.001 with unmanned systems is gentle . I 02:02:53.140 --> 02:02:55.307 recognized gentleman from Florida , Mr 02:02:55.307 --> 02:02:57.473 Jimenez . Thank you , Mr Chairman , uh 02:02:57.473 --> 02:02:59.640 Doctor Walling . Here we go . Let's go 02:02:59.640 --> 02:03:02.169 back to energy , um , it takes money to , 02:03:02.279 --> 02:03:06.120 ah , to , ah , perpetuate , you know , 02:03:06.129 --> 02:03:08.089 propagate a war . Um , 02:03:09.919 --> 02:03:11.752 what would you say ? What is the 02:03:11.752 --> 02:03:15.459 leading money maker for , for 02:03:15.470 --> 02:03:19.450 Russia right now ? It is oil exports 02:03:19.459 --> 02:03:21.515 and natural gas exports primarily to 02:03:21.515 --> 02:03:25.399 China . Ok . So if , if the United 02:03:25.410 --> 02:03:28.310 States were to produce more oil and gas 02:03:29.029 --> 02:03:31.589 and drive down the cost , ah , on a 02:03:31.600 --> 02:03:33.711 worldwide basis , would that affect , 02:03:33.711 --> 02:03:35.711 ah , Russia's ability to perpetuate 02:03:35.711 --> 02:03:38.459 this war on the margin ? It would . Uh , 02:03:38.470 --> 02:03:42.160 but China is a energy hungry , 02:03:42.169 --> 02:03:44.879 greedy country and it's willing to pay . 02:03:44.899 --> 02:03:47.066 It has long term contracts with Russia 02:03:47.066 --> 02:03:49.177 and she does not want Putin to fail . 02:03:49.490 --> 02:03:53.299 All right , fair enough . Um , now 02:03:53.310 --> 02:03:55.477 Russia has been , has been targeting , 02:03:55.477 --> 02:03:57.640 ah , Ukrainians energy , right ? And 02:03:57.649 --> 02:03:59.871 sources of energy , et cetera . Is that 02:03:59.871 --> 02:04:02.100 true ? That is true . Ah , has Ukraine 02:04:02.109 --> 02:04:04.310 been targeting Russia's energy 02:04:04.319 --> 02:04:06.649 production ? Ah , there are public 02:04:06.660 --> 02:04:09.490 reports that Ukraine has done so . 02:04:10.979 --> 02:04:13.090 Have we tried to stop them from doing 02:04:13.090 --> 02:04:16.790 that ? The US has raised concerns with 02:04:16.799 --> 02:04:18.855 Ukraine which is a sovereign country 02:04:18.855 --> 02:04:20.799 and can choose its own targets but 02:04:20.799 --> 02:04:23.470 raised concerns about targeting 02:04:23.479 --> 02:04:26.040 civilian critical infrastructure . Well , 02:04:26.049 --> 02:04:28.105 yeah , but it , but , ah , the , the 02:04:28.105 --> 02:04:30.216 Russians have no problem in targeting 02:04:30.216 --> 02:04:32.382 Ukrainian energy production . Now , if 02:04:32.382 --> 02:04:34.438 the , if the Ukrainians were able to 02:04:34.438 --> 02:04:36.438 disrupt Russian energy production , 02:04:36.438 --> 02:04:38.493 would that significantly alter their 02:04:38.493 --> 02:04:40.716 ability to perpetuate this war so far , 02:04:40.716 --> 02:04:42.827 the strikes that we have seen against 02:04:42.827 --> 02:04:45.140 Russian energy sources have not 02:04:45.149 --> 02:04:47.316 significantly altered Russia's ability 02:04:47.316 --> 02:04:50.359 to prosecute the war . That's so far . 02:04:50.370 --> 02:04:52.481 But if they're actually able to do it 02:04:52.481 --> 02:04:54.700 successfully , would that alter the , 02:04:54.979 --> 02:04:58.299 the economics of this war ? I am not an 02:04:58.310 --> 02:05:00.421 expert on energy infrastructure , but 02:05:00.421 --> 02:05:02.421 the evidence we've seen is that the 02:05:02.421 --> 02:05:04.366 Russians have been able to rapidly 02:05:04.366 --> 02:05:06.643 repair the facilities that were struck . 02:05:06.660 --> 02:05:08.882 What would happen if we don't support , 02:05:08.882 --> 02:05:11.049 um , general , what would happen if we 02:05:11.049 --> 02:05:13.049 don't support , uh Ukraine and they 02:05:13.049 --> 02:05:17.029 actually run out of bullets , um , in 02:05:17.040 --> 02:05:19.470 my military experience , congressman , 02:05:19.479 --> 02:05:21.479 if somebody shooting at you and you 02:05:21.479 --> 02:05:23.701 can't shoot back , you , you , you lose 02:05:23.701 --> 02:05:25.979 or you die . Uh , where , where is the , 02:05:25.979 --> 02:05:28.090 where's Ukraine now , in terms of its 02:05:28.090 --> 02:05:30.423 arms supplies and ability to fight back , 02:05:30.423 --> 02:05:32.535 sir ? Could we , could , could I tell 02:05:32.535 --> 02:05:32.250 you about that in closed session plan ? 02:05:32.259 --> 02:05:34.481 Absolutely . Ok . Thank you very much . 02:05:34.481 --> 02:05:36.592 Look , a lot of , a lot of , uh , you 02:05:36.592 --> 02:05:38.592 know , folks even on my side of the 02:05:38.592 --> 02:05:41.609 aisle somehow equate , uh , the , the 02:05:41.620 --> 02:05:43.729 lack of the Biden administration 02:05:43.740 --> 02:05:46.990 securing our border . Uh , being a , a 02:05:47.000 --> 02:05:50.029 reason why we can't help Ukraine secure 02:05:50.040 --> 02:05:52.151 their border . The facts are that the 02:05:52.151 --> 02:05:54.318 Ukrainians are spilling their blood to 02:05:54.318 --> 02:05:56.429 secure their border and then the fact 02:05:56.429 --> 02:05:58.651 that our administration does not secure 02:05:58.651 --> 02:06:00.596 our border , uh , shouldn't be the 02:06:00.596 --> 02:06:02.651 reason why we don't help people that 02:06:02.651 --> 02:06:04.762 are trying to fight for their freedom 02:06:04.762 --> 02:06:04.720 as somebody who came over from a 02:06:04.750 --> 02:06:07.250 communist country some 60 years ago , 02:06:07.569 --> 02:06:09.790 somebody who's not a fan of , uh , of 02:06:09.799 --> 02:06:11.810 Russia . I think that we need to 02:06:11.819 --> 02:06:13.875 support the Ukrainians . All they're 02:06:13.875 --> 02:06:15.875 asking for is our aid . All they're 02:06:15.875 --> 02:06:18.209 asking for is bullets and , ah , and , 02:06:18.500 --> 02:06:20.609 and armaments and , ah , and for the 02:06:20.620 --> 02:06:22.676 life of me , I just don't understand 02:06:22.676 --> 02:06:24.787 why we , we don't support them and we 02:06:24.787 --> 02:06:28.589 should , ah , some analysts , ah , 02:06:28.600 --> 02:06:30.822 believe that the F-16 , ah , could help 02:06:30.822 --> 02:06:32.656 Ukraine . Ah , do you share that 02:06:32.656 --> 02:06:36.270 general , uh , the , the F-16 will help , 02:06:36.279 --> 02:06:38.390 you know , any aircraft will , will , 02:06:38.390 --> 02:06:41.879 will help Congressmen . Um , the , it's 02:06:41.890 --> 02:06:45.000 a , it's a particularly difficult jump 02:06:45.009 --> 02:06:48.580 to go from the older Soviet era stuff , 02:06:48.589 --> 02:06:50.990 aircraft that the Ukrainians had been 02:06:51.000 --> 02:06:53.049 flying especially , had been 02:06:53.060 --> 02:06:55.660 maintaining and supporting . It's tough 02:06:55.669 --> 02:06:58.279 to go from that um , to a modern fourth 02:06:58.310 --> 02:07:00.740 gen aircraft like the F-16 , as you 02:07:00.750 --> 02:07:02.917 know , we're working on it with them . 02:07:02.917 --> 02:07:04.639 There's an entire coalition of 02:07:04.639 --> 02:07:06.806 countries working on it with them . Um 02:07:06.806 --> 02:07:08.917 uh but ultimately , it , it will be a 02:07:08.917 --> 02:07:11.083 valuable thing for them to have . Uh I 02:07:11.083 --> 02:07:13.306 understand that we're actually training 02:07:13.306 --> 02:07:15.528 them , uh training them to , to fly the 02:07:15.528 --> 02:07:17.750 F-16s and that there are some countries 02:07:17.750 --> 02:07:17.359 that are actually will be supplying 02:07:17.370 --> 02:07:19.819 F-16s to Ukraine . Is that true ? Both 02:07:19.830 --> 02:07:22.052 are correct ? Ok . Why isn't the United 02:07:22.052 --> 02:07:25.930 States giving them F-16s ? Uh 02:07:27.149 --> 02:07:30.729 We are , we are supporting the 02:07:30.740 --> 02:07:32.729 provision of F-16s by European 02:07:32.740 --> 02:07:34.970 countries and the numbers that they are 02:07:34.979 --> 02:07:37.290 going to provide , uh meet the 02:07:37.299 --> 02:07:40.029 requirements for the Ukrainians at this 02:07:40.040 --> 02:07:43.649 time . All right . Thank you . Um , are 02:07:43.660 --> 02:07:47.430 you back chair now ? Recognizes gentle 02:07:47.439 --> 02:07:49.890 lady from California MS Jacobs . Thank 02:07:49.899 --> 02:07:52.010 you , Mr Chair . And first , I'd like 02:07:52.010 --> 02:07:54.121 to thank the chair and ranking member 02:07:54.121 --> 02:07:56.121 for their bipartisan support of the 02:07:56.121 --> 02:07:58.177 security supplemental . I think it's 02:07:58.177 --> 02:08:00.010 incredibly important that we get 02:08:00.010 --> 02:08:02.121 Ukraine the assistance that , that it 02:08:02.121 --> 02:08:04.232 needs and also that we make sure that 02:08:04.232 --> 02:08:06.010 humanitarian assistance in that 02:08:06.010 --> 02:08:08.177 supplemental package is passed . I was 02:08:08.177 --> 02:08:10.399 just on the border uh of Chad and Sudan 02:08:10.399 --> 02:08:12.399 and saw the Sudanese refugees whose 02:08:12.399 --> 02:08:14.566 food is running out because we haven't 02:08:14.566 --> 02:08:16.899 yet passed that humanitarian assistance . 02:08:16.899 --> 02:08:19.121 Um General Cavoli uh I wanna ask you in 02:08:19.121 --> 02:08:20.899 the operation Atlantic resolved 02:08:20.899 --> 02:08:22.955 quarterly report to Congress . Uh It 02:08:22.955 --> 02:08:24.955 stated that the Security Assistance 02:08:24.955 --> 02:08:24.875 Group , Ukraine reported that it had no 02:08:24.886 --> 02:08:26.835 information to suggest that the 02:08:26.941 --> 02:08:29.108 Ukrainian armed Forces were using us , 02:08:29.108 --> 02:08:31.330 provided weapons and equipment in a way 02:08:31.330 --> 02:08:33.497 other in any way other than intended . 02:08:33.497 --> 02:08:35.663 Can you provide more details about the 02:08:35.663 --> 02:08:37.608 reporting mechanism utilized um to 02:08:37.608 --> 02:08:39.441 monitor the usage of us provided 02:08:39.441 --> 02:08:41.663 weapons and equipment and are are there 02:08:41.663 --> 02:08:43.663 mechanisms in place for independent 02:08:43.663 --> 02:08:45.663 verification or assessment of these 02:08:45.663 --> 02:08:47.608 findings regarding the usage of us 02:08:47.608 --> 02:08:49.663 assistance ? Um Yeah , Congressman , 02:08:49.663 --> 02:08:51.663 thank , thank you very much for the 02:08:51.663 --> 02:08:51.521 opportunity to talk about this 02:08:51.532 --> 02:08:54.140 important topic . Um Fir first of all , 02:08:54.149 --> 02:08:56.260 it continues to be the case since the 02:08:56.260 --> 02:08:58.593 publication of that report or since the , 02:08:58.593 --> 02:09:00.760 the the authorship of that report that 02:09:00.760 --> 02:09:03.200 we , we just don't have uh evidence 02:09:03.209 --> 02:09:05.620 that this is um that there's widespread 02:09:05.629 --> 02:09:07.851 diversion or anything like that . Now I 02:09:07.851 --> 02:09:09.962 have to admit that that's different , 02:09:09.962 --> 02:09:12.018 that's different from whether or not 02:09:12.018 --> 02:09:13.796 things get efficiently from the 02:09:13.796 --> 02:09:16.450 stockpiles to the soldiers hands in the 02:09:16.459 --> 02:09:18.626 uh in , in , in the squad on the front 02:09:18.626 --> 02:09:20.970 line . Um But we do work on , on 02:09:20.979 --> 02:09:23.257 logistical distribution with our , our , 02:09:23.257 --> 02:09:25.368 our partners in Ukraine quite a bit . 02:09:25.368 --> 02:09:28.149 Um So things leave the United States 02:09:28.160 --> 02:09:30.160 accounted for by the service that , 02:09:30.160 --> 02:09:32.327 that , that provided it in the case of 02:09:32.327 --> 02:09:34.216 something from a PD A where we're 02:09:34.216 --> 02:09:36.382 giving something from our stockpile um 02:09:36.382 --> 02:09:38.216 according to the amount of money 02:09:38.216 --> 02:09:40.327 provided under the authority and then 02:09:40.327 --> 02:09:43.120 receiving uh uh money to replenish that , 02:09:43.129 --> 02:09:44.962 right . So that comes out that's 02:09:44.962 --> 02:09:47.296 accounted for by the um by the services . 02:09:47.296 --> 02:09:49.462 And I think we have a very , very good 02:09:49.462 --> 02:09:51.573 control over that when things hit the 02:09:51.573 --> 02:09:53.796 ground in Poland , either by a truck uh 02:09:53.796 --> 02:09:56.490 plane or train , they come into the 02:09:56.500 --> 02:09:58.770 hands of our soldiers in southeastern 02:09:58.779 --> 02:10:01.001 Poland , they get accounted for there . 02:10:01.001 --> 02:10:02.946 And I'm very confident we had some 02:10:02.946 --> 02:10:05.112 missteps early on when we were rushing 02:10:05.112 --> 02:10:07.057 to get things done , but we've got 02:10:07.057 --> 02:10:09.223 systems in place . I know we know what 02:10:09.223 --> 02:10:11.279 we've got on our hands and that it's 02:10:11.279 --> 02:10:13.446 faithful to what was sent . Um Then we 02:10:13.446 --> 02:10:15.612 can sign it to the Ukrainians and they 02:10:15.612 --> 02:10:17.835 sign for it item by item . So I know as 02:10:17.835 --> 02:10:20.200 it goes on to trucks that , that , that 02:10:20.209 --> 02:10:22.265 we've accounted for after it crosses 02:10:22.265 --> 02:10:24.487 the border , it gets harder for us . So 02:10:24.487 --> 02:10:26.709 we have , uh , we barcode things and we 02:10:26.709 --> 02:10:28.542 have issued the Ukrainians uh uh 02:10:28.542 --> 02:10:31.339 scanners . We have automated the 02:10:31.350 --> 02:10:34.290 process of , um , of , uh , tracking 02:10:34.299 --> 02:10:36.609 things as it goes forward . We share 02:10:36.620 --> 02:10:38.787 our databases with them and they share 02:10:38.787 --> 02:10:40.898 theirs with us so we can track . It's 02:10:40.898 --> 02:10:42.676 really when you get down to the 02:10:42.676 --> 02:10:44.842 tactical edge that it starts getting a 02:10:44.842 --> 02:10:46.898 little bit harder , ma'am . Um , and 02:10:46.898 --> 02:10:48.953 it's complicated by the fact that we 02:10:48.953 --> 02:10:50.842 can't go to a lot of those places 02:10:50.842 --> 02:10:52.953 simply because of the level of danger 02:10:52.953 --> 02:10:55.064 and we've restricted ourselves from , 02:10:55.064 --> 02:10:57.009 uh , from doing that . So in those 02:10:57.009 --> 02:10:59.009 cases , we do ask the Ukrainians to 02:10:59.009 --> 02:11:01.120 self report . An incredibly important 02:11:01.120 --> 02:11:02.898 part of this system though , is 02:11:02.898 --> 02:11:05.120 contractors that we hire to provide for 02:11:05.120 --> 02:11:08.649 us an outside view on front line units , 02:11:08.660 --> 02:11:11.129 accountability . Those contractors are 02:11:11.140 --> 02:11:14.720 paid for with supplemental money . 02:11:15.149 --> 02:11:17.689 And uh , when the supplemental , uh if 02:11:17.700 --> 02:11:20.060 it's not renewed , I won't be able to 02:11:20.069 --> 02:11:22.069 perform that level of fidelity of 02:11:22.080 --> 02:11:25.259 outside third party verification of 02:11:25.270 --> 02:11:27.270 what the Ukrainians are , are , are 02:11:27.270 --> 02:11:28.937 claiming , uh , is , is their 02:11:28.937 --> 02:11:31.048 accountability . I hope that answered 02:11:31.048 --> 02:11:34.709 your question , ma'am . I , um , that , 02:11:34.720 --> 02:11:36.887 that is my understanding of the system 02:11:36.887 --> 02:11:38.990 and that we also then have a duty at 02:11:39.000 --> 02:11:41.450 dod to report those uh findings and 02:11:41.459 --> 02:11:43.759 that , that tracking uh to Congress . 02:11:45.020 --> 02:11:47.242 Thank you . Um , I also wanted to ask , 02:11:47.242 --> 02:11:49.298 uh about the joint rapid acquisition 02:11:49.298 --> 02:11:51.409 cell . Um , could you just talk about 02:11:51.409 --> 02:11:53.520 how we're working with , uh Ukrainian 02:11:53.520 --> 02:11:55.187 defense manufacturers to most 02:11:55.187 --> 02:11:57.242 effectively use the assistance we're 02:11:57.242 --> 02:12:00.419 giving . We are working with the 02:12:00.430 --> 02:12:02.970 Ukrainians uh and uh a number of 02:12:02.979 --> 02:12:06.529 European countries uh to create 02:12:06.540 --> 02:12:08.529 reassurance uh about the size of 02:12:08.540 --> 02:12:10.850 contracts because what we need is for 02:12:10.859 --> 02:12:12.759 potential investors in Ukrainian 02:12:12.770 --> 02:12:15.689 defense industries uh to see not just 02:12:15.700 --> 02:12:18.259 the immediate need but a mul multi year 02:12:18.270 --> 02:12:20.830 uh requirement . So we are working with 02:12:20.839 --> 02:12:23.649 Ukraine on locations . Um I know what 02:12:23.660 --> 02:12:25.990 is required on our embassy works with 02:12:26.000 --> 02:12:28.790 potential investors to support uh those 02:12:28.799 --> 02:12:30.855 capabilities in Ukraine . But and we 02:12:30.855 --> 02:12:33.021 are also sharing with them the lessons 02:12:33.021 --> 02:12:35.770 we have learned uh on rapid acquisition 02:12:35.779 --> 02:12:38.990 on multiyear contracts to inform them 02:12:39.000 --> 02:12:41.056 from the lessons of our success with 02:12:41.056 --> 02:12:42.889 congressional support that we've 02:12:42.889 --> 02:12:45.000 experienced over the last two years . 02:12:45.000 --> 02:12:47.222 Thank you , Mr Chairman . I go back . G 02:12:47.222 --> 02:12:49.444 Lady Yields back chair , not recognized 02:12:49.444 --> 02:12:51.667 gentleman from Georgia , Mr mccormick . 02:12:51.667 --> 02:12:53.889 Thank you , Mr Chair . It's good to see 02:12:53.889 --> 02:12:55.944 you both here today . Uh I have some 02:12:55.944 --> 02:12:58.056 specific questions that that actually 02:12:58.056 --> 02:13:00.000 arose from some of your statements 02:13:00.000 --> 02:13:02.111 earlier . Uh First I will address the 02:13:02.111 --> 02:13:04.056 Supreme Allied Commander , which I 02:13:04.056 --> 02:13:06.111 think is the coolest title ever . Uh 02:13:08.430 --> 02:13:11.109 um This is an important question when 02:13:11.120 --> 02:13:13.560 it comes to Ukraine , which I think is 02:13:13.569 --> 02:13:15.680 an incredibly strategically important 02:13:15.680 --> 02:13:19.529 country in the world . Is this war for 02:13:19.540 --> 02:13:21.000 the allies winnable ? 02:13:24.979 --> 02:13:27.850 Yy , yes , it is . I I in a couple of 02:13:27.859 --> 02:13:30.700 ways . Um The first , if we go back to 02:13:30.709 --> 02:13:33.509 the first is if we go back to what um 02:13:33.520 --> 02:13:35.509 Secretary Waner was talking about 02:13:35.520 --> 02:13:38.790 earlier , denying the Russians a 02:13:38.799 --> 02:13:40.850 strategic victory or imposing a 02:13:40.859 --> 02:13:43.810 strategic defeat on that in itself is , 02:13:43.819 --> 02:13:46.250 is a victory even if a temporary 02:13:46.259 --> 02:13:48.549 victory for the alliance . Um So in 02:13:48.560 --> 02:13:50.782 that sense , it , it , it is winnable . 02:13:50.782 --> 02:13:53.004 We can , we can do that with our , with 02:13:53.004 --> 02:13:55.116 our Ukrainian College . I would agree 02:13:55.116 --> 02:13:54.629 and , and here's my point on this 02:13:54.640 --> 02:13:56.362 because I think this is really 02:13:56.362 --> 02:13:58.584 important . You mentioned the F-16s and 02:13:58.584 --> 02:14:00.696 what's being supplied is adequate . I 02:14:00.696 --> 02:14:02.807 don't like that word adequate because 02:14:02.807 --> 02:14:05.029 that doesn't go back to what we learned 02:14:05.029 --> 02:14:07.029 in command and staff in a war cards 02:14:07.029 --> 02:14:09.251 which is overwhelming force . Claus Wii 02:14:09.251 --> 02:14:11.362 and warfare . We have a GDP of around 02:14:11.362 --> 02:14:13.529 25 to $27 trillion . Combine that with 02:14:13.529 --> 02:14:15.640 Europe , around $45 trillion . Russia 02:14:15.640 --> 02:14:18.310 has $1.77 trillion for a GDP . This 02:14:18.319 --> 02:14:20.669 shouldn't be a contest , it shouldn't 02:14:20.680 --> 02:14:22.569 be , but we're slow rolling , our 02:14:22.569 --> 02:14:24.669 support , not just what , what we 02:14:24.680 --> 02:14:26.902 already committed , which has been slow 02:14:26.902 --> 02:14:29.180 rolling , getting our tanks over there , 02:14:29.180 --> 02:14:28.859 getting our airplanes over there , 02:14:28.870 --> 02:14:31.037 getting our munitions over there , the 02:14:31.037 --> 02:14:33.259 things we've already committed to . But 02:14:33.259 --> 02:14:35.259 also we continue to hold this up in 02:14:35.259 --> 02:14:34.819 Congress , which drives me crazy 02:14:34.830 --> 02:14:37.520 because this is a winnable war . This 02:14:37.529 --> 02:14:39.819 idea that's being propagated on both 02:14:39.830 --> 02:14:42.209 sides of the house that we can't win . 02:14:42.220 --> 02:14:45.299 This war is insane . We out them 02:14:45.310 --> 02:14:47.254 dramatically , but quite frankly , 02:14:47.254 --> 02:14:50.700 Ukraine with a GDP of only $200 billion 02:14:50.709 --> 02:14:52.709 has been able to hold out against a 02:14:52.709 --> 02:14:55.580 first world country army and sustain 02:14:55.589 --> 02:14:59.270 50% casualties to their armor and 350 02:14:59.399 --> 02:15:02.169 50 casualties overall , with a third 02:15:02.180 --> 02:15:04.439 rate army that's very ill trained . 02:15:04.810 --> 02:15:07.270 That's success by my measures . And if 02:15:07.279 --> 02:15:09.612 we give them surge capabilities , which , 02:15:09.612 --> 02:15:11.779 by the way , in Iraq and Afghanistan , 02:15:11.779 --> 02:15:13.946 I don't know if you do agree with me , 02:15:13.946 --> 02:15:13.660 general , but we didn't do very well 02:15:13.669 --> 02:15:15.836 until we had surge capabilities and we 02:15:15.836 --> 02:15:17.947 are the big boy on the block , but we 02:15:17.947 --> 02:15:20.169 didn't succeed until we had surge ops . 02:15:20.169 --> 02:15:22.336 And we're the first world country when 02:15:22.336 --> 02:15:24.558 it comes to military capabilities . How 02:15:24.558 --> 02:15:26.959 do we expect a third world country to 02:15:26.970 --> 02:15:29.192 succeed against a first world army ? If 02:15:29.192 --> 02:15:31.390 we don't give them surge ops in real 02:15:31.399 --> 02:15:33.810 time , we are not giving , we can't 02:15:33.819 --> 02:15:35.875 give them adequate . We have to give 02:15:35.875 --> 02:15:37.930 them superiority . That's my point . 02:15:37.930 --> 02:15:40.152 Nobody's talking about that right now . 02:15:40.152 --> 02:15:42.263 We have to give them what it takes to 02:15:42.263 --> 02:15:44.541 get this done . This is a winnable war . 02:15:44.541 --> 02:15:47.020 Would you agree ? Uh Yes , I agree . I , 02:15:47.029 --> 02:15:49.950 I agree . Congressman . Um , a and much 02:15:49.959 --> 02:15:51.792 of the conversation , much of my 02:15:51.792 --> 02:15:54.990 testimony today has been about , um the , 02:15:55.000 --> 02:15:57.160 the minimum about , about avoiding 02:15:57.169 --> 02:16:01.140 defeat for Ukraine , um which does not 02:16:01.149 --> 02:16:03.700 necessarily immediately um lead to the 02:16:03.709 --> 02:16:05.487 accomplishment of our strategic 02:16:05.487 --> 02:16:07.487 interests . Yeah . So when you talk 02:16:07.487 --> 02:16:09.209 about strategic uh interests , 02:16:09.209 --> 02:16:11.379 Secretary , uh would you agree that 02:16:11.390 --> 02:16:13.557 Ukraine is probably a top five country 02:16:13.557 --> 02:16:15.557 when it comes to resources . You're 02:16:15.557 --> 02:16:17.668 talking about 70% of grain , you have 02:16:17.668 --> 02:16:19.723 titanium , you have steel , you have 02:16:19.723 --> 02:16:21.834 cobalt , you have rare minerals and , 02:16:21.834 --> 02:16:23.612 and including you , some of the 02:16:23.612 --> 02:16:25.779 radioactive stuff that actually powers 02:16:25.779 --> 02:16:27.834 the world all in this country that , 02:16:27.834 --> 02:16:30.001 that could be taken by Russia and then 02:16:30.001 --> 02:16:32.334 that stuff could be moved over to China , 02:16:32.334 --> 02:16:34.446 North Korea and Iran . Instead of our 02:16:34.446 --> 02:16:36.612 allies , it will have consequences for 02:16:36.612 --> 02:16:38.779 generations to come that people aren't 02:16:38.779 --> 02:16:37.500 really taking into account when they 02:16:37.509 --> 02:16:39.787 talk about the economic impact of this . 02:16:40.179 --> 02:16:42.123 I think you've laid out the stakes 02:16:42.123 --> 02:16:44.401 extremely well . Congressman . I agree . 02:16:44.519 --> 02:16:46.686 Great . So I think if , if we're going 02:16:46.686 --> 02:16:48.630 to fulfill our word , by the way , 02:16:48.630 --> 02:16:50.575 that's the third part of this , we 02:16:50.575 --> 02:16:52.741 actually gave a word , not just in one 02:16:52.741 --> 02:16:54.963 time but actually real time . NATO as , 02:16:54.963 --> 02:16:57.130 as a unanimous vote said , we're gonna 02:16:57.130 --> 02:16:59.297 support you during this . I think it's 02:16:59.297 --> 02:17:01.519 unwise to turn your back on the rest of 02:17:01.519 --> 02:17:03.575 the world Reagan 40 years ago at the 02:17:03.575 --> 02:17:05.686 80th or the 40th anniversary of D day 02:17:05.686 --> 02:17:07.408 from Normandy talked about the 02:17:07.408 --> 02:17:09.630 consequences of isolationism , how it's 02:17:09.630 --> 02:17:11.852 a failed policy , especially against an 02:17:11.852 --> 02:17:14.609 expansionist Marxist government , which 02:17:14.619 --> 02:17:16.619 is exactly what NATO was made for . 02:17:16.619 --> 02:17:18.841 This is the time to stand now . I agree 02:17:18.841 --> 02:17:20.952 with both of you . This is a winnable 02:17:20.952 --> 02:17:23.119 war and strategically important to the 02:17:23.119 --> 02:17:25.119 future of the world . We have a 50% 02:17:25.119 --> 02:17:27.286 increase necessary in food stores . By 02:17:27.286 --> 02:17:29.499 2050 we have to secure our resources 02:17:29.508 --> 02:17:31.508 this is strategically important and 02:17:31.508 --> 02:17:33.508 it's important to us to fulfill our 02:17:33.508 --> 02:17:35.675 word to our allies overseas . And with 02:17:35.675 --> 02:17:38.169 that , I yield , gentlemen , yields 02:17:38.179 --> 02:17:40.179 back chair . And I recognize as the 02:17:40.179 --> 02:17:42.235 general lady from the great state of 02:17:42.235 --> 02:17:44.179 Alabama MS Sewell . Thank you , Mr 02:17:44.179 --> 02:17:46.940 Chairman . Um I'd like to add my voice 02:17:46.950 --> 02:17:49.429 to the chorus . Uh Thanking you , Mr 02:17:49.440 --> 02:17:51.551 Chair and our ranking member for your 02:17:51.551 --> 02:17:53.919 bipartisan support um of the Ukraine 02:17:53.929 --> 02:17:56.889 supplemental package . Um As we've 02:17:56.900 --> 02:17:59.769 heard today , Congress must act . Um We 02:17:59.780 --> 02:18:01.836 must act to get Ukrainians the tools 02:18:01.836 --> 02:18:04.002 they need to defend their country . Um 02:18:04.002 --> 02:18:07.190 It's a strategic ally of ours and to 02:18:07.200 --> 02:18:10.669 allow uh the uh the , the 02:18:10.679 --> 02:18:13.000 necessary tools not to be given is just 02:18:14.250 --> 02:18:16.910 unacceptable frankly . Um You know , I 02:18:16.919 --> 02:18:19.669 had an opportunity last year general to 02:18:19.679 --> 02:18:22.480 um visit Poland uh on a bipartisan 02:18:22.490 --> 02:18:25.410 delegation to see firsthand uh the 02:18:25.419 --> 02:18:28.179 tracking and accountability systems 02:18:28.190 --> 02:18:30.412 that you all have put in place in order 02:18:30.412 --> 02:18:32.468 to make sure that we at the American 02:18:32.468 --> 02:18:34.468 people know that the resources that 02:18:34.468 --> 02:18:36.523 they're sending to Ukraine are being 02:18:36.523 --> 02:18:38.634 utilized . Um I get that you can't uh 02:18:38.634 --> 02:18:41.360 see once it's past the border . Um But 02:18:41.370 --> 02:18:43.592 um overall , have you been pleased with 02:18:43.592 --> 02:18:45.592 that system ? And what can we do to 02:18:45.592 --> 02:18:48.990 strengthen it ? Uh Thank you , uh ma'am 02:18:50.029 --> 02:18:53.968 um to be clear . Um We don't go blind 02:18:53.978 --> 02:18:55.978 when it goes across the border . We 02:18:55.978 --> 02:18:58.308 have folks in Kiev who inspect depots . 02:18:58.499 --> 02:19:01.329 Um And we have folks uh in Kiev who 02:19:01.338 --> 02:19:04.728 venture out , um , um , farther like to 02:19:04.789 --> 02:19:06.899 Adia and places like that to inspect 02:19:06.909 --> 02:19:09.076 depots . It's really what it gets down 02:19:09.076 --> 02:19:11.131 to front lines that it gets a little 02:19:11.131 --> 02:19:13.187 bit tougher for us . And I explained 02:19:13.187 --> 02:19:15.076 how , how we're doing that . Am I 02:19:15.076 --> 02:19:17.409 satisfied ? No , I'm not satisfied . II , 02:19:17.409 --> 02:19:19.742 I mean , you know , in , in the US Army , 02:19:19.742 --> 02:19:21.631 when you change over , you know , 02:19:21.631 --> 02:19:23.742 command of a unit , you , you have to 02:19:23.742 --> 02:19:25.742 sign for every single screwdriver , 02:19:25.742 --> 02:19:27.853 every single screw in that unit . You 02:19:27.853 --> 02:19:29.965 have to account for it or you have to 02:19:29.965 --> 02:19:32.076 pay for it . That's where I'd like to 02:19:32.076 --> 02:19:31.759 be . We're , we're just finding that 02:19:31.769 --> 02:19:33.936 it's difficult to be there right now . 02:19:33.936 --> 02:19:35.936 I am satisfied under the conditions 02:19:35.936 --> 02:19:38.370 that doing a good job . Um I'm not 02:19:38.379 --> 02:19:40.379 satisfied under the conditions that 02:19:40.379 --> 02:19:42.601 we're doing a perfect job or the , even 02:19:42.601 --> 02:19:44.657 the best job we can and we strive to 02:19:44.657 --> 02:19:44.519 improve it every single day . Of course , 02:19:44.530 --> 02:19:46.641 we , we strive to improve it . I just 02:19:46.641 --> 02:19:48.559 want uh my co my constituents in 02:19:48.570 --> 02:19:50.459 Alabama to know that we are doing 02:19:50.459 --> 02:19:52.737 everything we can to be uh to be track , 02:19:52.737 --> 02:19:55.759 to track it and to be accountable . Um 02:19:56.110 --> 02:19:58.639 One of our uh one of those uh NATO 02:19:58.650 --> 02:20:00.969 allies and anchor of stability in the 02:20:00.980 --> 02:20:03.660 region is Romania . And last year , the 02:20:03.669 --> 02:20:06.250 Alabama National Guard and Romania 02:20:06.259 --> 02:20:08.780 celebrated 30 years as partners uh 02:20:08.790 --> 02:20:10.901 through the State Partnership program 02:20:10.901 --> 02:20:12.623 which has enhanced both of our 02:20:12.623 --> 02:20:14.623 country's armed forces . As part of 02:20:14.623 --> 02:20:16.623 this program , the Red tails at the 02:20:16.623 --> 02:20:18.990 187th fighter wing in Montgomery , 02:20:19.000 --> 02:20:21.530 which I am so honored to represent um 02:20:21.549 --> 02:20:23.660 partnered with the Romanian Air Force 02:20:23.660 --> 02:20:25.771 to uh share best practices related to 02:20:25.771 --> 02:20:28.995 the F 30 the F-16 and the F-35 . Now as 02:20:29.004 --> 02:20:31.275 Romania modernizes its fleet . So 02:20:31.285 --> 02:20:33.452 general , can you speak to the benefit 02:20:33.452 --> 02:20:35.452 that the Alabama National Guards uh 02:20:35.452 --> 02:20:37.229 partnership has on Romania's uh 02:20:37.229 --> 02:20:39.396 military readiness ? And how does this 02:20:39.396 --> 02:20:41.634 partnership bolster our position in uh 02:20:41.644 --> 02:20:45.599 the region ? Um Ma'am , 02:20:45.610 --> 02:20:47.959 first of all , just , just for all 02:20:47.969 --> 02:20:50.679 members um from all states , the state 02:20:50.690 --> 02:20:52.519 partnership program is just an 02:20:52.530 --> 02:20:55.679 incredibly valuable part of our 02:20:55.690 --> 02:20:58.240 strategy to be able to support the 02:20:58.250 --> 02:21:00.799 alliance and to create strategic bonds 02:21:00.809 --> 02:21:03.280 between the United States and given 02:21:03.290 --> 02:21:06.019 countries . In many cases , it pays off 02:21:06.030 --> 02:21:08.629 tenfold in terms of access , in terms 02:21:08.639 --> 02:21:10.910 of basing in terms of influence and 02:21:10.919 --> 02:21:12.641 things like that . It's , it's 02:21:12.641 --> 02:21:14.808 extremely uh practical , but it's also 02:21:14.808 --> 02:21:16.863 just strategically valuable . I work 02:21:16.863 --> 02:21:19.269 very hard with uh Dan Hogenson on , on 02:21:19.280 --> 02:21:21.447 making sure we do . We've got exciting 02:21:21.447 --> 02:21:23.113 new developments in the state 02:21:23.113 --> 02:21:25.224 Partnership program . It's helping us 02:21:25.224 --> 02:21:27.280 consolidate the position of formerly 02:21:27.280 --> 02:21:29.940 neutral or neutral and wondering about 02:21:29.950 --> 02:21:32.320 it countries right now . Um uh My 02:21:32.330 --> 02:21:34.870 Sergeant Major Rob Abernathy here um 02:21:34.879 --> 02:21:37.059 routinely engages with the soldiers 02:21:37.070 --> 02:21:38.792 from the various states and he 02:21:38.792 --> 02:21:41.014 routinely attends the State Partnership 02:21:41.014 --> 02:21:43.181 conferences and everything like that . 02:21:43.181 --> 02:21:45.237 It's , it's extremely important with 02:21:45.237 --> 02:21:47.070 regard to Alabama and Romania um 02:21:47.070 --> 02:21:49.403 particularly huge success story , right . 02:21:49.403 --> 02:21:51.570 So the Romanians are having a moment . 02:21:51.570 --> 02:21:53.626 Their economy is doing well and it's 02:21:53.626 --> 02:21:55.737 going into their military . They've , 02:21:55.737 --> 02:21:55.610 they've beaten back a lot of corruption 02:21:55.620 --> 02:21:57.842 problems . They had , their military is 02:21:57.842 --> 02:21:59.953 surging right now . It's gonna become 02:21:59.953 --> 02:22:01.787 really an anchor of our , in the 02:22:01.787 --> 02:22:03.842 southeast . They're spending well on 02:22:03.842 --> 02:22:05.620 defense . They're buying all us 02:22:05.620 --> 02:22:07.731 equipment , very high end stuff . But 02:22:07.731 --> 02:22:09.731 to use that equipment , you , you , 02:22:09.731 --> 02:22:11.731 you've gotta , you gotta have a , a 02:22:11.731 --> 02:22:13.676 mentor . It's not just a member of 02:22:13.676 --> 02:22:16.719 going and learning how to fly the F-35 02:22:16.730 --> 02:22:18.786 or learning how to use this piece of 02:22:18.786 --> 02:22:20.452 equipment . You really got to 02:22:20.452 --> 02:22:22.341 understand how to employ it in an 02:22:22.341 --> 02:22:24.563 organization , how to take care of it . 02:22:24.563 --> 02:22:26.674 And uh the Alabama National Guard has 02:22:26.674 --> 02:22:26.450 been fantastic in that regard and all 02:22:26.459 --> 02:22:28.737 the , by the way on the ground as well , 02:22:28.737 --> 02:22:30.681 uh working with multinational Core 02:22:30.681 --> 02:22:32.839 Southeast to put that together . So I 02:22:32.849 --> 02:22:35.250 can't , I can't thank Alabama enough or 02:22:35.259 --> 02:22:37.315 the National Guard in general enough 02:22:37.315 --> 02:22:39.537 for what they , what they do . It has a 02:22:39.537 --> 02:22:41.759 material impact on the combat readiness 02:22:41.759 --> 02:22:43.592 of our alliance . Thank you , Mr 02:22:43.592 --> 02:22:43.410 Chairman . I just wanted to make sure 02:22:43.419 --> 02:22:45.308 that we were supporting the state 02:22:45.308 --> 02:22:47.363 partnerships . It's uh really uh the 02:22:47.363 --> 02:22:49.363 Alabama Romanian partnership is AAA 02:22:49.363 --> 02:22:51.759 model to be followed . Thanks . It is 02:22:51.780 --> 02:22:53.836 uh uh chair and I recognize you from 02:22:53.836 --> 02:22:56.058 Florida . Mr Gates , Doctor Wallander , 02:22:56.058 --> 02:22:58.169 you've testified that the goal in the 02:22:58.169 --> 02:23:00.169 war is Russia's strategic failure , 02:23:00.169 --> 02:23:02.224 right ? So I want to drill down into 02:23:02.224 --> 02:23:04.113 what that specifically means does 02:23:04.113 --> 02:23:06.610 Russia's strategic failure require 02:23:06.620 --> 02:23:09.490 repatriating Crimea back to Ukraine ? 02:23:11.080 --> 02:23:13.339 That is for Ukraine to decide whether 02:23:13.349 --> 02:23:17.179 that is uh their absolute required 02:23:17.429 --> 02:23:20.240 uh achievement to define this war . 02:23:20.259 --> 02:23:23.059 You're a senior administration official 02:23:23.070 --> 02:23:25.126 in , in the Biden administration , I 02:23:25.126 --> 02:23:27.292 just want to note to you does Russia's 02:23:27.292 --> 02:23:28.959 strategic failure require the 02:23:28.959 --> 02:23:31.700 repatriation of Crimea to me uh 02:23:31.910 --> 02:23:35.799 reinforcing the international law that 02:23:35.809 --> 02:23:38.019 borders cannot be changed by force is 02:23:38.030 --> 02:23:40.086 absolutely vital to teaching Putin a 02:23:40.086 --> 02:23:42.889 lesson . So ultimately , yes , yes . So 02:23:42.900 --> 02:23:45.067 the , the the the the objective of the 02:23:45.067 --> 02:23:46.956 United States through your eyes , 02:23:46.956 --> 02:23:48.900 granted Ukraine can have their own 02:23:48.900 --> 02:23:51.011 objectives totally concede that . But 02:23:51.011 --> 02:23:53.011 in your eyes , as you testify to us 02:23:53.011 --> 02:23:55.339 until Crimea has been repatriated , we 02:23:55.349 --> 02:23:57.460 have not achieved what you say is the 02:23:57.460 --> 02:23:59.460 goal in the war , which is Russia's 02:23:59.460 --> 02:24:03.150 strategic failure that 02:24:03.160 --> 02:24:05.799 Russia does not gain territory through 02:24:05.809 --> 02:24:08.719 the use of force is a strategic , is a 02:24:08.730 --> 02:24:11.769 strategic success for Ukraine . And but 02:24:11.780 --> 02:24:13.947 I just want , I know , but that's very 02:24:13.947 --> 02:24:15.724 amorphous . I'm talking about a 02:24:15.724 --> 02:24:17.891 specific piece of geography , Crimea . 02:24:17.891 --> 02:24:20.440 You're testifying that Russia's 02:24:20.450 --> 02:24:23.519 strategic failure has not been achieved 02:24:23.889 --> 02:24:26.160 until Crimea is back under Ukrainian 02:24:26.169 --> 02:24:28.610 control . I think that's what you've 02:24:28.620 --> 02:24:30.564 said . I just , I want to draw the 02:24:30.564 --> 02:24:32.787 finest possible point on . I appreciate 02:24:32.787 --> 02:24:34.731 that . I said that Russia will not 02:24:34.731 --> 02:24:36.953 succeed in seizing territory and having 02:24:36.953 --> 02:24:38.898 that recognized through the use of 02:24:38.898 --> 02:24:40.953 force . All right . So , so , so now 02:24:40.953 --> 02:24:43.009 let's do the Dabas and is it , is it 02:24:43.009 --> 02:24:45.231 your testimony , the same that Russia's 02:24:45.231 --> 02:24:46.990 strategic failure can only be 02:24:47.000 --> 02:24:49.219 accomplished through a repatriation of 02:24:49.230 --> 02:24:51.286 the Dabas region . Back to Ukraine . 02:24:52.919 --> 02:24:55.240 Russia's strategic failure requires 02:24:55.250 --> 02:24:57.700 that Russia not gain territory in 02:24:57.709 --> 02:25:00.519 Ukraine through the use of force . And 02:25:00.530 --> 02:25:02.808 they've done that in the Dabas , right ? 02:25:02.808 --> 02:25:04.863 We do not recognize that and Ukraine 02:25:04.863 --> 02:25:06.863 does not recognize that . So , no , 02:25:06.863 --> 02:25:08.974 they occupy the I'm really interested 02:25:08.974 --> 02:25:11.086 in how Ukraine has , has historically 02:25:11.086 --> 02:25:13.252 recognized . The Dabas . Have you ever 02:25:13.252 --> 02:25:15.086 heard the Dabas described as the 02:25:15.086 --> 02:25:17.169 ungoverned region by Ukrainian 02:25:17.179 --> 02:25:20.040 officials prior to the invasion ? The 02:25:20.049 --> 02:25:22.271 Donbas , you mean Donetsk and Luhansk , 02:25:23.259 --> 02:25:25.203 I personally have never heard that 02:25:25.219 --> 02:25:28.070 really . I have I heard the Ukrainian 02:25:28.080 --> 02:25:29.747 ambassador describe it as the 02:25:29.747 --> 02:25:32.889 ungoverned region before and , and now 02:25:32.900 --> 02:25:34.456 we're acting as though it's 02:25:34.456 --> 02:25:36.511 repatriation is necessary to achieve 02:25:36.511 --> 02:25:38.511 Russia's strategic failure . Do you 02:25:38.511 --> 02:25:40.678 think setting such a high bar like the 02:25:40.678 --> 02:25:42.622 repatriation of Crimea that's been 02:25:42.622 --> 02:25:44.678 under Russian control for some years 02:25:44.678 --> 02:25:46.900 now ? And , and the repatriation of the 02:25:46.900 --> 02:25:48.956 Dabas region , do you think that's a 02:25:48.956 --> 02:25:51.122 really high bar for us us to achieve ? 02:25:51.280 --> 02:25:53.620 I think that Russia is going to fail . 02:25:53.629 --> 02:25:55.796 I think the international community at 02:25:56.009 --> 02:25:58.065 large does not support this and they 02:25:58.065 --> 02:26:00.919 see a stake in an aggressor being able 02:26:00.929 --> 02:26:04.179 to invade a neighbor and uh and slice 02:26:04.190 --> 02:26:06.412 off territory and claim it as its own . 02:26:06.412 --> 02:26:08.357 Here's what I think , I think that 02:26:08.357 --> 02:26:10.579 we're never repatriating Crimea back to 02:26:10.579 --> 02:26:12.690 Ukraine . And I think that if you set 02:26:12.690 --> 02:26:15.059 that as the objective , then we 02:26:15.150 --> 02:26:18.259 perpetuate this new forever war that's 02:26:18.269 --> 02:26:20.436 going to have a lot of death and a lot 02:26:20.436 --> 02:26:22.547 of destruction and , uh , it's , it's 02:26:22.547 --> 02:26:25.469 for an unachievable goal . Uh , and , 02:26:25.480 --> 02:26:28.049 and , uh , I , I worry , I worry that's 02:26:28.059 --> 02:26:30.379 driving our thinking , uh , you know , 02:26:30.389 --> 02:26:32.445 general , you said any aircraft will 02:26:32.445 --> 02:26:34.556 help . I mean , I take some exception 02:26:34.556 --> 02:26:36.556 with that . I don't want to quibble 02:26:36.556 --> 02:26:38.722 with that . Right . Like aircraft that 02:26:38.722 --> 02:26:38.509 can't fly , don't help , do they ? 02:26:39.400 --> 02:26:42.049 Right . There are aircraft that can't 02:26:42.059 --> 02:26:44.115 fly in there so they wouldn't help . 02:26:44.115 --> 02:26:45.892 And then if you weren't able to 02:26:45.892 --> 02:26:47.980 properly operate an aircraft and it 02:26:47.990 --> 02:26:50.157 were to create some sort of escalatory 02:26:50.157 --> 02:26:52.360 accident , that would be problematic 02:26:52.370 --> 02:26:55.669 too . Right ? Ok . So just for the 02:26:55.679 --> 02:26:57.901 record , Mr Chairman , I seek unanimous 02:26:57.901 --> 02:27:00.459 consent to enter uh an , an April 5th 02:27:00.469 --> 02:27:03.219 publication from the defense post.com 02:27:03.230 --> 02:27:06.169 F-16 fighter Jets no longer relevant 02:27:06.230 --> 02:27:08.452 according to Ukrainian official without 02:27:08.452 --> 02:27:10.508 objection . So ordered . Do you have 02:27:10.508 --> 02:27:12.730 any reaction to that reporting ? Sure . 02:27:12.730 --> 02:27:14.897 That's , that's not what the Ukrainian 02:27:14.897 --> 02:27:14.860 officials , I talked to think that's 02:27:14.870 --> 02:27:17.203 not what they tell me . Well , yeah , I , 02:27:17.203 --> 02:27:19.426 I , I guess , I guess then we shouldn't 02:27:19.426 --> 02:27:21.481 represent that there is unanimity on 02:27:21.481 --> 02:27:21.134 that position . There are some who 02:27:21.144 --> 02:27:23.200 think that'll be helpful . Some they 02:27:23.200 --> 02:27:25.422 think they won't . Um Just real quick . 02:27:25.422 --> 02:27:25.344 You guys , you guys are gonna have 02:27:25.474 --> 02:27:27.363 leaving Cyprus and going to these 02:27:27.363 --> 02:27:29.794 operations in the Eastern Med in Gaza . 02:27:29.974 --> 02:27:31.585 And like , I think the Biden 02:27:31.585 --> 02:27:33.696 administration wants us to become the 02:27:33.696 --> 02:27:35.585 port authority in Gaza presumably 02:27:35.585 --> 02:27:37.696 forever . But uh do we know yet where 02:27:37.696 --> 02:27:39.807 we're gonna build this pier in Gaza ? 02:27:41.160 --> 02:27:43.219 Um So that's not my area of 02:27:43.230 --> 02:27:45.639 responsibility , sir . Ok . So you're 02:27:45.650 --> 02:27:47.817 not supporting that out of Cyprus just 02:27:47.817 --> 02:27:49.650 because on page 15 of your , I'm 02:27:49.650 --> 02:27:51.650 supporting it . Yes , I do . Do you 02:27:51.650 --> 02:27:53.706 know where it's gonna be ? I do know 02:27:53.706 --> 02:27:55.706 where the pier is going to go , but 02:27:55.706 --> 02:27:55.490 it's not my area of responsibility and 02:27:55.500 --> 02:27:57.722 I'd refer you to General Correas . I'll 02:27:57.722 --> 02:28:01.559 check with him . Thanks Mr Chair . It's 02:28:01.570 --> 02:28:03.759 a fascinating world we live in because 02:28:03.769 --> 02:28:05.669 I actually agree with Mr Gates on 02:28:05.679 --> 02:28:08.019 something around Ukrainian policy , um 02:28:08.030 --> 02:28:10.252 which I would not have thought of . And 02:28:10.252 --> 02:28:12.419 this is a really important point right 02:28:12.419 --> 02:28:14.530 now . What we need to do is get money 02:28:14.530 --> 02:28:16.197 to Ukraine so they can defend 02:28:16.197 --> 02:28:18.474 themselves . I'm 100% with you on that . 02:28:18.474 --> 02:28:20.530 I think all the arguments that we've 02:28:20.530 --> 02:28:22.197 heard today dance around that 02:28:22.197 --> 02:28:24.308 fundamental reality that giving Putin 02:28:24.308 --> 02:28:28.299 Ukraine is an enormous mistake and not 02:28:28.309 --> 02:28:30.420 giving Ukraine the money right now to 02:28:30.420 --> 02:28:33.419 defend it . That's giving Putin Ukraine . 02:28:33.910 --> 02:28:35.854 But we have got to get off of this 02:28:35.854 --> 02:28:38.580 Crimea trap that we walk right into . 02:28:38.589 --> 02:28:41.450 Like you just did realistically , 02:28:41.459 --> 02:28:44.099 Crimea is not coming back to Ukraine 02:28:44.309 --> 02:28:47.459 and we can absolutely win this war and 02:28:47.469 --> 02:28:50.209 absolutely make a difference . Even in 02:28:50.219 --> 02:28:53.429 that reality , we do not have to have 02:28:53.440 --> 02:28:56.870 Crimea to make it 1000% worth it . To 02:28:56.879 --> 02:29:00.150 give Ukraine the money , ok . We need a 02:29:00.160 --> 02:29:02.330 sovereign democratic Ukraine that can 02:29:02.339 --> 02:29:04.080 survive . We have a sovereign 02:29:04.089 --> 02:29:06.089 Democratic Ukraine that can survive 02:29:06.089 --> 02:29:08.540 right now . We do . All right . But if 02:29:08.549 --> 02:29:10.450 we are telling the world you must 02:29:10.459 --> 02:29:13.339 support us , Ukraine taking it all back , 02:29:13.349 --> 02:29:15.040 that is an entirely different 02:29:15.049 --> 02:29:17.290 proposition . And , and I have never 02:29:17.299 --> 02:29:19.299 liked , I've heard this phrase over 02:29:19.299 --> 02:29:21.521 nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine . 02:29:21.521 --> 02:29:24.940 Forgive me . That is a ridiculous thing 02:29:24.950 --> 02:29:28.269 for any us diplomat or person in us 02:29:28.280 --> 02:29:31.299 policy to say , ok , we have partners 02:29:31.309 --> 02:29:33.570 all over the world and yes , we , we , 02:29:33.580 --> 02:29:35.524 we listen to them , but when we're 02:29:35.524 --> 02:29:37.759 footing the bill , when we are spending 02:29:37.769 --> 02:29:40.009 so much money over there , we have a 02:29:40.019 --> 02:29:43.769 say and to act like we don't , I 02:29:43.780 --> 02:29:45.891 get it . I know why you don't want to 02:29:45.891 --> 02:29:48.002 act like you're bullying Ukraine into 02:29:48.002 --> 02:29:50.113 something . But let us walk down that 02:29:50.113 --> 02:29:52.490 road as Mr Gates just walked you down 02:29:52.500 --> 02:29:54.889 that road and see that , that initial 02:29:54.900 --> 02:29:57.629 instinct that saying , well , we're not , 02:29:57.639 --> 02:29:59.861 we're gonna just make sure that Ukraine 02:29:59.861 --> 02:30:02.269 has the say is a problem . So I don't 02:30:02.280 --> 02:30:04.447 really want an answer to this . I just 02:30:04.447 --> 02:30:06.447 want everybody listening within the 02:30:06.447 --> 02:30:08.679 Biden administration to walk down that 02:30:08.690 --> 02:30:11.780 road a little bit more effectively from 02:30:11.790 --> 02:30:13.901 this point forward . So that we don't 02:30:13.901 --> 02:30:15.870 wind up abandoning Ukraine because 02:30:15.879 --> 02:30:17.768 we're defending something that is 02:30:17.768 --> 02:30:20.389 largely theoretical basically . And we 02:30:20.400 --> 02:30:23.040 get ourselves in that trap . And I just 02:30:23.049 --> 02:30:25.049 wanted to get that on the record at 02:30:25.049 --> 02:30:27.160 this particular moment . I yield back 02:30:27.160 --> 02:30:29.382 to the chairman I completely agree with 02:30:29.382 --> 02:30:31.382 the ranking member of the chair now 02:30:31.382 --> 02:30:33.049 recognizes the gentleman from 02:30:33.049 --> 02:30:35.160 California , Mr Panetta . Thank you , 02:30:35.160 --> 02:30:37.049 Mr Chairman . Thank you , ranking 02:30:37.049 --> 02:30:38.938 member for your comments , Doctor 02:30:38.938 --> 02:30:40.993 General . Thank you for being here . 02:30:40.993 --> 02:30:43.160 Appreciate your testimony today . Um I 02:30:43.160 --> 02:30:44.882 also wanna hearken back to the 02:30:44.882 --> 02:30:47.049 gentleman from Georgia's testimony . I 02:30:47.049 --> 02:30:49.271 appreciate how he did sort of sum it up 02:30:49.271 --> 02:30:51.382 in that , you know , uh last summer , 02:30:51.382 --> 02:30:53.160 we sort of had high hopes about 02:30:53.160 --> 02:30:55.160 potentially using the vernacular of 02:30:55.160 --> 02:30:57.929 winning . But unfortunately , now we're 02:30:57.940 --> 02:31:00.250 sort of in a situation where we're 02:31:00.259 --> 02:31:02.639 definitely not as optimistic and we're 02:31:02.650 --> 02:31:04.817 getting to the point where we're going 02:31:04.817 --> 02:31:07.039 to be very , very pessimistic . I had a 02:31:07.039 --> 02:31:08.872 conversation with a couple of my 02:31:08.872 --> 02:31:10.872 colleagues who had just traveled to 02:31:10.872 --> 02:31:13.650 Ukraine last week and their attitude 02:31:13.660 --> 02:31:16.889 was that the situation was tense stable , 02:31:17.019 --> 02:31:19.620 but they're very , very worried about 02:31:19.629 --> 02:31:21.980 what's going to happen . Like I said , 02:31:21.990 --> 02:31:24.046 last summer , we had high hopes that 02:31:24.046 --> 02:31:26.101 Ukrainian troops could punch through 02:31:26.101 --> 02:31:28.323 Russian lines , but unfortunately , the 02:31:28.323 --> 02:31:30.650 counteroffensive failed . And we got to 02:31:30.660 --> 02:31:32.882 a point where we started to accept that 02:31:32.882 --> 02:31:36.169 Ukraine was settling into a stalemate . 02:31:36.650 --> 02:31:38.817 Now we're starting to worry it's going 02:31:38.817 --> 02:31:40.706 beyond that , especially with the 02:31:40.706 --> 02:31:42.817 potential for a big Russian push this 02:31:42.817 --> 02:31:44.740 summer that could punch through 02:31:44.750 --> 02:31:47.339 Ukrainian defenses and deep into the 02:31:47.349 --> 02:31:49.839 country . And what we're seeing is that 02:31:49.849 --> 02:31:52.110 Ukraine is suffering from quote unquote 02:31:52.120 --> 02:31:54.959 shell hunger where Russia is firing 02:31:54.969 --> 02:31:57.559 five shells for every one . Ukrainian 02:31:57.570 --> 02:31:59.980 shell that Ukrainian can that Ukraine 02:31:59.990 --> 02:32:02.610 can fire . In addition , Ukraine is low 02:32:02.620 --> 02:32:04.676 on air defenses . They're low on air 02:32:04.679 --> 02:32:06.790 defense interceptors , they're low on 02:32:06.790 --> 02:32:09.068 cruise missiles , they're low on tanks , 02:32:09.068 --> 02:32:11.290 they're low on fighting vehicles . It's 02:32:11.290 --> 02:32:13.346 not just leading to a stalemate . It 02:32:13.346 --> 02:32:14.957 could be leading to a loss , 02:32:14.957 --> 02:32:16.957 straightforward question . What can 02:32:16.957 --> 02:32:19.012 Congress be doing that ? We change , 02:32:19.012 --> 02:32:21.235 not just the vernacular , but we change 02:32:21.360 --> 02:32:22.360 the outcome . 02:32:25.219 --> 02:32:28.849 The , what we need right now to prevent 02:32:29.540 --> 02:32:33.360 Russian success and Ukrainian defeat 02:32:33.370 --> 02:32:36.360 is passage of the supplemental . It is 02:32:36.370 --> 02:32:38.314 critical for the reasons . General 02:32:38.314 --> 02:32:41.950 Cavoli has made clear we are able to 02:32:41.959 --> 02:32:44.459 get to a longer term solution by 02:32:44.469 --> 02:32:46.349 working with Europe that is well 02:32:46.360 --> 02:32:48.730 underway , but none of that work that 02:32:48.740 --> 02:32:50.851 we've done for two years in investing 02:32:50.851 --> 02:32:53.549 in Ukraine's future will pay off unless 02:32:53.559 --> 02:32:55.892 we get them through the next few months . 02:32:56.040 --> 02:32:59.570 General uh Congressman , I I really 02:32:59.580 --> 02:33:01.524 don't have anything to add to what 02:33:01.524 --> 02:33:03.691 Doctor Waldinger just said . I thought 02:33:03.691 --> 02:33:05.858 it was very well put , we've uh spoken 02:33:05.858 --> 02:33:08.080 at length today about what the critical 02:33:08.080 --> 02:33:10.302 steps are and why it's the US . So uh a 02:33:10.302 --> 02:33:12.490 very valid question um that I've heard 02:33:12.500 --> 02:33:14.570 from members uh both in the , in the 02:33:14.580 --> 02:33:16.747 hearing today . And , and previously , 02:33:16.747 --> 02:33:20.610 sir is um why can't somebody else fill 02:33:20.620 --> 02:33:23.129 in this requirement and on , on those 02:33:23.139 --> 02:33:26.769 two items , the artillery shells and 02:33:26.870 --> 02:33:29.500 ground based interceptors , we are 02:33:29.509 --> 02:33:31.287 really leading the world in the 02:33:31.287 --> 02:33:33.639 production of those right now for 155 , 02:33:33.650 --> 02:33:35.594 especially for the NATO standard . 02:33:35.639 --> 02:33:37.639 Nobody else is producing it and the 02:33:37.639 --> 02:33:39.695 quantity necessary they're trying to 02:33:39.695 --> 02:33:41.917 get there , but they're not there yet . 02:33:41.917 --> 02:33:43.972 So this supplemental at this time to 02:33:43.972 --> 02:33:45.917 get us to that day when others are 02:33:45.917 --> 02:33:48.028 going to be able to be producing , to 02:33:48.028 --> 02:33:50.083 include Ukrainians , producing their 02:33:50.083 --> 02:33:51.972 own , which is there and our goal 02:33:51.972 --> 02:33:54.195 together . Um I , I think that's really 02:33:54.195 --> 02:33:56.361 why this is a critical moment for this 02:33:56.361 --> 02:33:58.528 supplemental , sir . Thanks to both of 02:33:58.528 --> 02:34:00.639 you general . Um Obviously what we've 02:34:00.639 --> 02:33:59.940 seen and I think you talked about this 02:33:59.950 --> 02:34:02.006 earlier in one of your answers . The 02:34:02.006 --> 02:34:04.172 war in Ukraine has been one of both uh 02:34:04.172 --> 02:34:06.228 advanced technology and conventional 02:34:06.228 --> 02:34:08.228 warfare . Uh The Russians have been 02:34:08.228 --> 02:34:09.950 relying on the age old tactics 02:34:09.950 --> 02:34:11.839 including mines , tanks and layer 02:34:11.839 --> 02:34:14.061 defenses . But Ukrainians have actually 02:34:14.061 --> 02:34:16.172 been merging both advanced technology 02:34:16.172 --> 02:34:18.117 and conventional warfare . In some 02:34:18.117 --> 02:34:20.339 cases , Ukraine has been losing some of 02:34:20.339 --> 02:34:22.506 these technologies and high volumes to 02:34:22.506 --> 02:34:24.283 combat Russia's sheer number of 02:34:24.283 --> 02:34:26.450 firepower . What is your assessment of 02:34:26.450 --> 02:34:29.209 Ukraine's use of emerging technology to 02:34:29.219 --> 02:34:30.886 reduce some of the asymmetric 02:34:30.886 --> 02:34:32.941 advantages against Russia's military 02:34:33.080 --> 02:34:34.913 and war economy ? And how do you 02:34:34.913 --> 02:34:37.136 anticipate that this can be sustained ? 02:34:37.730 --> 02:34:40.769 Um It's uh quite innovative congressman . 02:34:40.780 --> 02:34:44.629 Um They uh they uh successfully 02:34:44.639 --> 02:34:46.861 brought into their military in the very 02:34:46.861 --> 02:34:49.830 early stages . A large large number of 02:34:49.839 --> 02:34:52.150 engineers and scientists from what was 02:34:52.160 --> 02:34:54.700 a , a very highly developed technical 02:34:54.709 --> 02:34:56.769 education base . So their tertiary 02:34:56.780 --> 02:34:59.070 education system was very long on 02:34:59.080 --> 02:35:01.500 engineers and scientists . And uh those 02:35:01.509 --> 02:35:03.620 folks have made a big big help inside 02:35:03.620 --> 02:35:05.875 the military , adapting technologies , 02:35:05.884 --> 02:35:09.134 both new um military technologies and 02:35:09.144 --> 02:35:11.794 grafting it onto old systems or 02:35:11.804 --> 02:35:13.865 civilian technologies and finding a 02:35:13.875 --> 02:35:16.208 military use for them . Very innovative , 02:35:16.208 --> 02:35:18.153 very useful , difficult to scale , 02:35:18.275 --> 02:35:20.275 great , difficult to scale . Thanks 02:35:20.275 --> 02:35:22.442 again to both of you , Mr Chairman Ayo 02:35:22.442 --> 02:35:24.386 back , Jimmy yields back . I would 02:35:24.386 --> 02:35:26.608 advise members and their staff that are 02:35:26.608 --> 02:35:28.719 watching that after Mr Davis , we are 02:35:28.719 --> 02:35:30.886 going to recess and go to 2212 for the 02:35:30.886 --> 02:35:32.942 classified portion of this hearing . 02:35:32.942 --> 02:35:35.053 But right now recognize the gentleman 02:35:35.053 --> 02:35:34.969 from North Carolina , Mr Davis . Thanks 02:35:34.980 --> 02:35:37.091 so much Mr Chair and to the witnesses 02:35:37.091 --> 02:35:40.929 here today , Doctor General Seymour 02:35:40.940 --> 02:35:44.580 Johnson Air Force Base is Crown 02:35:44.589 --> 02:35:47.099 Jewel in Eastern North Carolina plays a 02:35:47.110 --> 02:35:49.730 key role , a key role in our national 02:35:49.740 --> 02:35:52.429 security and defense . Um General 02:35:52.440 --> 02:35:54.496 Cavoli , um can you explain the role 02:35:54.496 --> 02:35:56.900 that Strike Eagles in particularly are 02:35:56.910 --> 02:35:59.370 playing in the European theater and in 02:35:59.379 --> 02:36:02.559 particular , um how the vesting a 02:36:02.629 --> 02:36:04.990 fighter squadron at the base would 02:36:05.000 --> 02:36:07.209 impact operations in , in Ukraine . 02:36:10.049 --> 02:36:12.870 So the Strike Eagle is a very capable 02:36:12.879 --> 02:36:15.599 aircraft . Um It's one of the , it's at 02:36:15.610 --> 02:36:17.332 the very top end of the fourth 02:36:17.332 --> 02:36:19.443 generation of aircraft . It carries a 02:36:19.443 --> 02:36:21.990 very large payload and uh can deliver 02:36:22.000 --> 02:36:24.070 it in very , very uh difficult , 02:36:24.080 --> 02:36:26.269 difficult places . So it has proven 02:36:26.429 --> 02:36:28.709 it's worth over the years , sir . Um It 02:36:28.719 --> 02:36:30.910 is one of the aircraft that figures 02:36:30.919 --> 02:36:33.896 heavily in my plans in the plans at us 02:36:33.906 --> 02:36:37.335 U com . It is an aircraft that um that 02:36:37.345 --> 02:36:39.623 um it will continue to be valuable for , 02:36:39.623 --> 02:36:41.856 for some time . I do recognize that the 02:36:41.866 --> 02:36:44.095 Air Force is uh trying to replace them 02:36:44.106 --> 02:36:47.356 with more capable aircraft . Um um And , 02:36:47.366 --> 02:36:49.906 and it will be very important for us 02:36:49.916 --> 02:36:52.106 not to have a gap between , you know , 02:36:52.116 --> 02:36:54.227 the , the , the retirement of one and 02:36:54.227 --> 02:36:56.631 the arrival of the next with regard to 02:36:56.641 --> 02:36:58.863 the particular uh squadron at , at , at 02:36:58.863 --> 02:37:00.974 Seymour sir , uh uh Seymour Johnson , 02:37:00.974 --> 02:37:03.030 iii , I don't know off the top of my 02:37:03.030 --> 02:37:05.252 head and I would refer that question to 02:37:05.252 --> 02:37:07.252 the Department of the Air Force and 02:37:07.252 --> 02:37:07.242 I'll , I'll get that to them if you'd 02:37:07.251 --> 02:37:09.282 like , sir . Absolutely . And , and 02:37:09.291 --> 02:37:11.402 just to follow up here , um , how did 02:37:11.402 --> 02:37:13.612 the F-15 E station in particular Lake 02:37:13.622 --> 02:37:17.171 and Heat directly , um , support or 02:37:17.311 --> 02:37:19.478 indirectly support Ukraine right now , 02:37:21.509 --> 02:37:24.860 they form an invaluable part 02:37:24.980 --> 02:37:27.629 of our air policing and our air defense 02:37:27.639 --> 02:37:31.150 system . Um , and , uh , that's proven 02:37:31.160 --> 02:37:34.160 very important in a couple of locations . 02:37:34.169 --> 02:37:38.120 Um , um , where , um , it , where 02:37:38.129 --> 02:37:40.280 it's been necessary to have an active 02:37:40.290 --> 02:37:43.440 uh missile and air defense . And I'd , 02:37:43.450 --> 02:37:45.672 I'd like to be more detailed about that 02:37:45.672 --> 02:37:47.783 in closed session if you can . And if 02:37:47.783 --> 02:37:49.839 you're not going to be at the closed 02:37:49.839 --> 02:37:49.480 session , sir , uh , I , I'd be happy 02:37:49.490 --> 02:37:51.712 to answer you in a classified setting , 02:37:51.712 --> 02:37:53.879 uh , elsewhere . There , there , there 02:37:53.879 --> 02:37:56.046 are other very important uses for it . 02:37:56.046 --> 02:37:59.490 Ok . Thank you . I visited Ukraine a 02:37:59.500 --> 02:38:02.509 few weeks ago and one of the 02:38:02.919 --> 02:38:05.959 takeaways for me and I'm sticking along 02:38:05.969 --> 02:38:09.669 this aircraft theme , so to speak . 02:38:10.150 --> 02:38:13.339 And that is not just the aircraft that 02:38:13.349 --> 02:38:15.460 they're receiving , but going through 02:38:15.460 --> 02:38:17.627 the training , getting their , getting 02:38:17.627 --> 02:38:19.738 pilots trained through the pipeline . 02:38:19.738 --> 02:38:21.679 Um Could you speak towards your 02:38:21.690 --> 02:38:25.490 knowledge of all of , are we 02:38:25.500 --> 02:38:29.150 able to um help get 02:38:29.160 --> 02:38:31.339 through , help the Ukrainians get 02:38:31.349 --> 02:38:33.679 through this process that , that is 02:38:33.780 --> 02:38:36.309 meaningful in a way that's still going 02:38:36.320 --> 02:38:40.120 to help us meet all the demands . Um uh 02:38:40.129 --> 02:38:42.018 in terms of the national security 02:38:42.018 --> 02:38:45.530 demands here . Uh Sure Congressman , 02:38:45.540 --> 02:38:48.370 the um first , it's worth worth 02:38:48.379 --> 02:38:50.490 pointing out . I think that we're not 02:38:50.490 --> 02:38:52.712 the only ones training Ukrainian pilots 02:38:52.712 --> 02:38:54.879 and , and working on fourth generation 02:38:54.879 --> 02:38:57.610 aircraft for them . Um The uh co-lead 02:38:57.620 --> 02:38:59.860 of the coalition that Os D has put 02:38:59.870 --> 02:39:02.009 together uh with our allies are , are 02:39:02.019 --> 02:39:04.352 Denmark and the Netherlands and they're , 02:39:04.352 --> 02:39:06.463 they're doing the preponderance of it 02:39:06.463 --> 02:39:08.686 right now . We are training some pilots 02:39:08.686 --> 02:39:10.519 um in , in the US . Um And we're 02:39:10.519 --> 02:39:12.575 working on some of their maintenance 02:39:12.575 --> 02:39:14.686 programs and everything in the , in , 02:39:14.686 --> 02:39:16.908 in the US also just a couple of notes . 02:39:16.908 --> 02:39:19.730 Um a uh an important feature of this , 02:39:19.740 --> 02:39:21.684 believe it or not has been English 02:39:21.684 --> 02:39:23.462 language capability and English 02:39:23.462 --> 02:39:25.860 language training . Um If all the 02:39:26.129 --> 02:39:28.330 manuals and all the instructions and 02:39:28.339 --> 02:39:30.617 all the buttons are written in English , 02:39:30.617 --> 02:39:32.561 you at least got to know that much 02:39:32.561 --> 02:39:34.617 English , by the way , it's also the 02:39:34.617 --> 02:39:34.570 international language of flight . And 02:39:34.580 --> 02:39:36.691 so it's just , it's just necessary um 02:39:36.691 --> 02:39:38.691 to , to have some level of language 02:39:38.691 --> 02:39:40.858 skill . Um That's the first step . The 02:39:40.858 --> 02:39:43.200 second step um is to determine whether 02:39:43.209 --> 02:39:45.459 or not the pilot has sufficient basic 02:39:45.469 --> 02:39:47.900 pilot training . If the person is an 02:39:47.910 --> 02:39:50.160 accomplished pilot already go straight 02:39:50.169 --> 02:39:52.490 to an F-16 transition . And that brings 02:39:52.500 --> 02:39:54.722 some challenges of my own because these 02:39:54.722 --> 02:39:56.833 are very different aircraft from what 02:39:56.833 --> 02:39:58.611 they've been flying in , in the 02:39:58.611 --> 02:40:00.833 Ukrainian Air Force . Um Otherwise , um 02:40:00.833 --> 02:40:03.000 you go to basic flight training and we 02:40:03.000 --> 02:40:05.167 do have some , some aviators and basic 02:40:05.167 --> 02:40:07.333 flight training as well in a couple of 02:40:07.333 --> 02:40:09.389 different countries and then they'll 02:40:09.389 --> 02:40:11.611 graduate to an F-16 transition . I hope 02:40:11.611 --> 02:40:11.190 that answered your question and just 02:40:11.200 --> 02:40:13.533 want to follow up here in a few seconds , 02:40:13.533 --> 02:40:15.900 lev . Um Do we have the capability , 02:40:15.910 --> 02:40:18.040 the capacity to train more Ukrainian 02:40:18.049 --> 02:40:20.660 powers in your opinion ? Yeah , the 02:40:20.669 --> 02:40:22.759 limiting factor on how many we're 02:40:22.769 --> 02:40:25.219 training right now , sir , is Ukrainian 02:40:25.230 --> 02:40:27.900 pilot availability . Um The Ukrainians 02:40:27.910 --> 02:40:30.719 have carefully calculated how many uh 02:40:30.730 --> 02:40:33.980 pilots they can spare and still 02:40:33.990 --> 02:40:36.212 maintain an adequate level of combat uh 02:40:36.212 --> 02:40:38.490 activity inside Ukraine . And that's 02:40:38.500 --> 02:40:40.611 what's driving the actual , the , the 02:40:40.611 --> 02:40:42.778 the actual size of the pipeline or how 02:40:42.778 --> 02:40:44.944 many are in the pipeline . Thank you , 02:40:44.944 --> 02:40:46.667 Mr Jeremy Yields back . The uh 02:40:46.667 --> 02:40:48.833 committee will now stand in recess for 02:40:48.833 --> 02:40:50.889 five minutes as we move to room 2212 02:40:50.889 --> 02:40:52.040 for the closed portion of this here .